Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Letter from AIPA to Jet* Pilots

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Letter from AIPA to Jet* Pilots

Old 25th Jan 2008, 07:38
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 160
Would it not be good to see the executives sweat if both the Jetstar and QF longhaul EBA's are together not done and dusted (ie. voted down) in the coming months. Especially if they are at least talking to each other (not saying they have to be in bed together, but a start would be good). Look at the improved deal QF shorthaul got after voting theirs down twice.

Why did QF spend so much money opposing AIPA in the courts in being allowed to represent all QF group pilots? Would it not be because they are concerned about the impact to themselves if it occurred? No doubt it is in the interests of the company if the current situation prevails. Lets learn from that at least.

Time to get together, even if the two bodies still exist, to at least share resources and goals. Together we may achieve more.
Bazzamundi is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2008, 07:42
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: syd
Age: 54
Posts: 78
I just voted NO and it felt good......

i hope my fellow workers follow suit..

We have been at the mercy of B.A, and the rest of his mates on the JPA/C whatever the call themselves, for too long and i'm hoping that a NO vote will mean the endd of the JPA as a stand alone entity.

At present there is a poll going on, on our private forum, so far the overwhelming majority has chosen to have some kind of union represenation, with AIPA ahead of the AFAP.

I hope the sellserves on the JPA are listening and they start working for the entire pilot group, not just themselves..
G Cantstandya is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2008, 07:48
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: North of 0
Posts: 197
Gentleman

Ive been following threads in the D&G zone recently as I have never done before. I am expecting some fire and harsh comments to come my way given the fact that I am one of those "outsiders" being looked at for joining JetStar. I have recently been invited by JetStar to attend a selection process in South Africa and given the facts that JetStar is a growing company and based in Australia, I am finding the idea very attractive to move accross.

However, I can see there are a lot of unhappiness here regarding a so called recent letter from management. I lost track of the subject being discussed after I got down to the first page of this thread. I would be grateful if someone could explain what the issues are that the pilots are facing at the moment and what the cause for frustrations are right now.

The company only opened up the EBA early because of the looming pilot shortage and why would we want to lock ourselves in for 5 years
What exactly is this about?

If we vote this one up fellas we have a key component of our remuneration dependant on the sole discretion of Jet* management
And this?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

SSM

PS, In the event of success, I will be no DEC!
SubsonicMortal is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2008, 08:28
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: .
Posts: 22
I have no doubt that appathy will win the day, many wont vote and the silent majority will vote YES for not other reason than they believe the threats ("this is our final offer") and are desperate for the 3% (about 3 grand for a skipper after tax).


What amuses me most is that for the last twelve months, after beer and girls, cockpit conversation invariabley turns to "how the company farked me over last month"/"joycie is a prick"/"howard is a prick"etc etc etc and after all that chest beating and d!ck waving, these exact people are going to lock us in for 5 years to a "workchoices" EBA when legislation to reverse some of it goes to parliment in a matter of months !

Is it worth rushing into an average deal that locks us in for yrs for 3k ?!

No but pilots are weak as piss when it comes to a ballot.
SumFingWong is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2008, 08:43
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: AUS
Posts: 80
Hey G,

Can't wait to see your name on the list of nominees for the next JPA.
VH-JJW is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2008, 08:56
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: syd
Age: 54
Posts: 78
Hey JJW,

I take it your a JPA member or one of their mates.......

I won't be applying for a position on the JPA becasue i'm a pilot and that's it...

Maybe if the JPA boys took that stance and stopped pretending they are anything other than pilots maybe we would get somewhere.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the work they do, but I feel they are way out of their league, and for their members to continually tell us that this bullshit EBA4 is a good deal and sign it or the world will stop spinning, I feel questions the intelligence of the pilot group!!
G Cantstandya is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2008, 19:37
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: AUS
Posts: 80
I take it your a JPA member or one of their mates.......

Good mates actually, Guilt by association eh.

I won't be applying for a position on the JPA becasue i'm a pilot and that's it...

Yes its called Jetstar PILOTS Association.

Maybe if the JPA boys took that stance and stopped pretending they are anything other than pilots maybe we would get somewhere.

Maybe, Maybe Maybe. By the way, when did the Presidents and Committees of AIPA and the AFAP stop flying?

So if you don't pretent to be anything other than a pilot, and that is what you believe the JPA should be, then why again would you not put your hand up? You are obviously an expert, in touch with your fellow pilots, after all why else would you be posting your drivel here rather than webgroups.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the work they do,

Yeah right, more like slag them off anonomously like a gutless prat.

but I feel they are way out of their league,

I would reverse that.

and for their members to continually tell us that this bullshit EBA4 is a good deal and sign it or the world will stop spinning, I feel questions the intelligence of the pilot group!!

Well, I am certainly not questioning yours.
VH-JJW is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2008, 19:48
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: syd
Age: 54
Posts: 78
JJW

Question....

If everyone is so happy with the JPA, why is the overwhelming majority choosing to have union representation on the poll currently being conducted? (i think it's around 90%)

The JPA have a conflict of interest, therefore a union is must when it comes to dealing with the company..

Lets face it, Joyce and his crew have been trying to screw us for years, i'm fine with that, its their job, so we have to have someone who willing to fight them at their level!! That's all i am saying.
G Cantstandya is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2008, 20:38
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: AUS
Posts: 80
Something about arguing with................

G. - how about not distorting the facts.

The results of the poll so far are that the VAST MAJORITY of pilots want JPA involvement, mostly in conjunction with a union.

I believe that the JPA have been seeking to achieve this for some time, however with the pilot group split between AIPA and the AFAP the question has always been which one.

Do not post personal opinions and pass them off as facts. I assume you are reading the same poll results I am or are you running your own secret personal poll?

By the way, nice to know that you are fine with being screwed.
VH-JJW is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2008, 21:05
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: AUS
Posts: 80
Hey G.

How come if you are a Jetstar pilot, your public profile lists you as a 747 pilot?

You know Jetstar only have Airbus, dont you?
VH-JJW is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2008, 03:21
  #31 (permalink)  
Keg

Nunc est bibendum
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 5,581
Lightbulb

By the way, when did the Presidents and Committees of AIPA and the AFAP stop flying?
AIPA's president traditionally has flown about a 1/3 of a line and possibly less. I'm not sure how much flying WoodI is doing at the moment given the fact that the company turned their back on the MoU for flying relief.

Further, AIPA has a full time General Manager and a bunch of full time staff in the office to support their activities. JPA has???
Keg is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2008, 04:23
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 212
And AIPA has been in existence for 20+ years and has access to how much money to fund their office and office managers? The JPA are a small group who have managed to obtain for their constituency more money and better equipment than they were originally flying, albeit on the back of some favourable Board decisions.

The time has come however to move to better resourced representation as Jetstar continues to grow. I don't however see AIPA as being the automatic body of choice. I am a little bit cynical about both the AFAP and AIPA appealing to us now about voting no. They were both aware of the EBA's negotiation and of the voting timetable. Why don't they conduct their own roadshows at their own expense if they are so interested in representing Jetstar pilots. Whoever manages to represent the majority of Jetstar pilots stand to gain quite a windfall in subscriptions so I think they should start lobbying personally and not through the expedient of emails.
permFO is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2008, 05:27
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 20
Foreign Pilots

Can you guys in Jetstar or any Yarpie reading this confirm or deny Jetstar is recruiting from South Africa. If so under what immigration status are these pilots coming.
If you guys in Jetstar lock yourselves into this low bar EBA for 5 years then you are doing yourselves an injustice. Q SH guys knocked their first EBA offer back(which was much better than the JStar offer) and were very quickly offered another better deal.
I know a lot of JStar guys come from some pretty rough backgrounds but that should not continue to taint your thinking.
VOTE NO and demand justice, not only is your pay worlds worst but check out your conditions and rostering practices.
Any ex EK drivers in JStar care to inform their work colleagues how much of a bad deal they are on?
gondwalla is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2008, 08:41
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 212
I assume the QF SH deal that was knocked back was negotiated by AIPA?
permFO is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2008, 08:50
  #35 (permalink)  
Keg

Nunc est bibendum
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 5,581
fish

G'day permFO. When put to the vote the knocked back proposal wasn't endorsed by AIPA COM- or even the negotiators themselves- as being acceptable. The negotiators said very clearly that they had gone as far as they could at that time and it was up to the members to say yes or no- and that they wanted a resounding 'no' vote. They got that, they went back and the company came up with a significantly enhanced offer.
Keg is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2008, 09:12
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 144
permFO, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about AIPA.
Dropt McGutz is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2008, 09:19
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: australia
Age: 72
Posts: 907
Not to mention Qantas too!
blow.n.gasket is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2008, 14:01
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 100
GC, could you elaborate on the conflict of interest the JPA allegedly have. I am sure the Jetstar pilots would be interested to find out before they cast their vote.
TurbTool is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2008, 21:46
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Syd, NSW
Posts: 386
Perm FO said
Why don't they conduct their own roadshows at their own expense if they are so interested in representing Jetstar pilots
Just like the JPC do hey

I have knowledge of the JPC conducting "roadshows" in Cairns not using staff travel but on confirmed tickets laid on by the company

As Keg pointed out - the company reneged on a negotiated time relief arrangement (read paid for in past eba's) for the AIPA President when the company yes men of AIPA past were replaced by the QF pilot body - he (and his reps) now have worked for the betterment of their colleagues on days off and holidays

We have been given an insight here that AIPA and AFAP have detailed compelling reasons to vote no in the first instance individually to all Jet Star Pilots.

I have yet to read 1 good reason to vote yes. Have the JPC put forward their compelling reasons to the Pilot body?
CaptCloudbuster is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2008, 00:18
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 71
I have knowledge of the JPC conducting "roadshows" in Cairns not using staff travel but on confirmed tickets laid on by the company
You make it sound as if this a bad thing. How could it be. It is something the JPA negotiated with J*. If the AIPA can't negotiate a deal like that then what else could you expect them to negotiate.

As Keg pointed out - the company reneged on a negotiated time relief arrangement (read paid for in past eba's) for the AIPA President when the company yes men of AIPA past were replaced by the QF pilot body - he (and his reps) now have worked for the betterment of their colleagues on days off and holidays
The JPA have a bank of days for time relief, something else thay negotiated. It is used for JPA/pilot purposes. Where there are mutual J*/JPA business, e.g negotiations, roadshows etc the Company provides the days. Something else they negotiated. Seems to me the JPA were able to swing a better deal than AIPA here too. At no cost to the J* pilots. Before you all suggest they must be in the Company's pocket consider what would the advantage to the individuals be, to have travel and time provided by the Company. Certainly no personal gain.

We have been given an insight here that AIPA and AFAP have detailed compelling reasons to vote no in the first instance individually to all Jet Star Pilots.

I have yet to read 1 good reason to vote yes. Have the JPC put forward their compelling reasons to the Pilot body?
Of course they have. I would imagine they just don't feel the need to post on this forum.
fistfokker is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.