Mega Merged: AsA ATC staffing levels
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In a Nutshell...
ICAO D put it fair and square:
If you are not a grasping, backstabbing ladder climbing suckhole and prefer to be a bog standard ATC, you are clearly a drain on the company and generally a waste of space.
And that , boys and girls, is why the workforce is totally dis-engaged fro m management.
Regards,,
KIR
If you are not a grasping, backstabbing ladder climbing suckhole and prefer to be a bog standard ATC, you are clearly a drain on the company and generally a waste of space.
And that , boys and girls, is why the workforce is totally dis-engaged fro m management.
Regards,,
KIR
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Do Not Fly An Instrument Approach Into Kunnunurra.
DO NOT FLY AN INSTRUMENT APPROACH IN IMC INTO KUNNUNURRA.
Terrain and obstacles stick up into the approach margins. New SAFE procedures were designed in AUGUST 2007 but have not been checked or published since.
"ANSA" Air No Services Australia, is not only screwing its ATC staff but the entire aviation community in Australia by not providing the services it is legislated to provide.
CASR Part 172 dictates the requirements for the provision of SEPERATION services to INTERNATIONAL aviation operations over the Australian 'FIR' in accordance with ICAO guidelines and SARPS. Our DOMESTIC operations avail themselves of this service and WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SAFE WHEN WE FLY TO SYDNEY.
The large amount of TIBA activities over the past "who knows how long" PROVES that ANSA is not able to provide the services the GOVERNMENT has legislated that it MUST PROVIDE as the "PROVIDER OF LAST RESORT".
CASR Part 173 dictates the requirements for the provision of INSTRUMENT APPROACH PROCEDURE DESIGN for all IFR operations in Australian airspace. The ANSA approach designers are PART OF THE ATC GROUP WITHIN ANSA. FOUR have resigned in the last twelve months, including two chief designers, approved by CASA and two certified designers.
ANSA do not have the required number of staff to maintain the 1400 or so INSTRUMENT APPROACH procedures to Australian aerodromes.
One "Chief Designer" and one "Designer" is not enough to maintain a PART 173 certificate for so many airfields and CASA is knocking back PART 173 applications from similiarly staffed and qualified organisations WHO MAINTAIN ONE or TWO instrument approaches.
WHY AREN'T CASA CONDUCTING THEIR LEGISLATED DUTIES IN RELATION TO AIRSERVICES AUSTRALIA'S DERILICTION OF THEIR STATUTORY REQUIRED OBLIGATIONS?
DO NOT CONDUCT AN INSTRUMENT APPROACH INTO KUNNUNURA IN IMC.
The approach procedures were flight checked in the middle of 2007 and found to be UNSAFE and not in compliance with ICAO DOC 8168, which specifies the design criteria for instrument approaches. This check was conducted by TWO ANSA procedure designers and a CASA pilot.
Redesign work was carried out BUT THE RE-DESIGNED SAFE PROCEDURES HAVE NOT BEEN CHECKED or VALIDATED since AUGUST 2007 when the redesign work was completed.
BUT THE UNSAFE PROCEDURES ARE STILL PUBLISHED IN DAP, AND JEPPs, WITH CASA'S IMPROMATA.
SHAME TFN, SHAME. Surely the lives of innocent passengers and aircrew is more important than NATIONAL PARTY PROPAGANDA?
SHAME DMW, SHAME. Surely the lives of innocent passengers and aircrew is more important than NATIONAL PARTY PROPAGANDA and KIWI idiology?
SHAME JH, SHAME. Just sit back on your ass for a couple of years and you MAY get promoted beyond your level of incompetence, once again.
SHAME BJ, SHAME. You must have bashed your forehead on the door frame once or twice too often. I would have thought that you would have learnt to bend over when you walk through doorways by now.
DO NOT FLY ANY OF THE PUBLISHED INSTRUMENT APPROACH PROCEDURES INTO KUNNUNURRA IN IMC?
ASK YOUR LOCAL POLITICIAN IF IT IS SAFE TO CONDUCT AN INSTRUMENT APPROACH INTO YOUR LOCAL AIRFIELD WITH A PUBLISHED INSTRUMENT APPROACH.
Terrain and obstacles stick up into the approach margins. New SAFE procedures were designed in AUGUST 2007 but have not been checked or published since.
"ANSA" Air No Services Australia, is not only screwing its ATC staff but the entire aviation community in Australia by not providing the services it is legislated to provide.
CASR Part 172 dictates the requirements for the provision of SEPERATION services to INTERNATIONAL aviation operations over the Australian 'FIR' in accordance with ICAO guidelines and SARPS. Our DOMESTIC operations avail themselves of this service and WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SAFE WHEN WE FLY TO SYDNEY.
The large amount of TIBA activities over the past "who knows how long" PROVES that ANSA is not able to provide the services the GOVERNMENT has legislated that it MUST PROVIDE as the "PROVIDER OF LAST RESORT".
CASR Part 173 dictates the requirements for the provision of INSTRUMENT APPROACH PROCEDURE DESIGN for all IFR operations in Australian airspace. The ANSA approach designers are PART OF THE ATC GROUP WITHIN ANSA. FOUR have resigned in the last twelve months, including two chief designers, approved by CASA and two certified designers.
ANSA do not have the required number of staff to maintain the 1400 or so INSTRUMENT APPROACH procedures to Australian aerodromes.
One "Chief Designer" and one "Designer" is not enough to maintain a PART 173 certificate for so many airfields and CASA is knocking back PART 173 applications from similiarly staffed and qualified organisations WHO MAINTAIN ONE or TWO instrument approaches.
WHY AREN'T CASA CONDUCTING THEIR LEGISLATED DUTIES IN RELATION TO AIRSERVICES AUSTRALIA'S DERILICTION OF THEIR STATUTORY REQUIRED OBLIGATIONS?
DO NOT CONDUCT AN INSTRUMENT APPROACH INTO KUNNUNURA IN IMC.
The approach procedures were flight checked in the middle of 2007 and found to be UNSAFE and not in compliance with ICAO DOC 8168, which specifies the design criteria for instrument approaches. This check was conducted by TWO ANSA procedure designers and a CASA pilot.
Redesign work was carried out BUT THE RE-DESIGNED SAFE PROCEDURES HAVE NOT BEEN CHECKED or VALIDATED since AUGUST 2007 when the redesign work was completed.
BUT THE UNSAFE PROCEDURES ARE STILL PUBLISHED IN DAP, AND JEPPs, WITH CASA'S IMPROMATA.
SHAME TFN, SHAME. Surely the lives of innocent passengers and aircrew is more important than NATIONAL PARTY PROPAGANDA?
SHAME DMW, SHAME. Surely the lives of innocent passengers and aircrew is more important than NATIONAL PARTY PROPAGANDA and KIWI idiology?
SHAME JH, SHAME. Just sit back on your ass for a couple of years and you MAY get promoted beyond your level of incompetence, once again.
SHAME BJ, SHAME. You must have bashed your forehead on the door frame once or twice too often. I would have thought that you would have learnt to bend over when you walk through doorways by now.
DO NOT FLY ANY OF THE PUBLISHED INSTRUMENT APPROACH PROCEDURES INTO KUNNUNURRA IN IMC?
ASK YOUR LOCAL POLITICIAN IF IT IS SAFE TO CONDUCT AN INSTRUMENT APPROACH INTO YOUR LOCAL AIRFIELD WITH A PUBLISHED INSTRUMENT APPROACH.
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3 letters.. G.B.E
Government Business Enterprise.
Some interesting reading on the ASA website, Statement of Expectations from the dearly departed Mark Vaile, and the corresponding Statement of Intent from Nick Burton Taylor. Grab a glass of red and a comfy chair, best novel since All the Kings Men imo
Government Business Enterprise.
Some interesting reading on the ASA website, Statement of Expectations from the dearly departed Mark Vaile, and the corresponding Statement of Intent from Nick Burton Taylor. Grab a glass of red and a comfy chair, best novel since All the Kings Men imo
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DNS - my post does have something to do with ATC staffing.
The approach designers are part of the ATC group.
It is not just the Controllers who are being screwed by ATC GMs and higher, it is the entire aviation industry and its passengers that are wearing the brunt of the incompetent way that the ATC group is being "managed".
The approach designers are part of the ATC group.
It is not just the Controllers who are being screwed by ATC GMs and higher, it is the entire aviation industry and its passengers that are wearing the brunt of the incompetent way that the ATC group is being "managed".
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Maggott17,
we ATC'ers are keenly aware of the impact reduced staffing is having on industry. This is the reason why although the staffing problem has obviously been building up over years, it is only relatively recently that TIBA and other loss of service has become more prevalent. But we can only stretch ourselves so far, and eventually we want to have our entitled days off and interact with our family, our friends, or hopefully catch up on some sleep.
As others have already suggested, maybe if the airlines started BILLING AsA for loss of revenue/service they might start to take the situation more seriously
for example, AsA could:
1.stop transition to SDE (removing demand for cross-training),
2. pull ALMS from their computers and back onto consoles,
3. actually try to entice past employees back,
4. make the job more attractive to OS controllers [such as assistance with moving, recognition of experience to transition to same pay level, removal of early exit penalty payment],
5. increase the training salary at the college to attract more (currently $35K -remeber, AsA prefers uni-qualified applicants) & again, remove training bond,
6. set up a retention plan to stop the current ATC's leaving (now there's an idea),
7. give us a decent payrise (once shift penalties are removed, the journeyman salary is only about $52K, and after 13 years, taking off 28% commuted for shiftwork, top pay is $96K - does not really compare favourably to non-shiftwork does it?)
8. hire more support staff (rostering, training, projects etc)
all things AsA could do, but as yet, are not.
we ATC'ers are keenly aware of the impact reduced staffing is having on industry. This is the reason why although the staffing problem has obviously been building up over years, it is only relatively recently that TIBA and other loss of service has become more prevalent. But we can only stretch ourselves so far, and eventually we want to have our entitled days off and interact with our family, our friends, or hopefully catch up on some sleep.
As others have already suggested, maybe if the airlines started BILLING AsA for loss of revenue/service they might start to take the situation more seriously
for example, AsA could:
1.stop transition to SDE (removing demand for cross-training),
2. pull ALMS from their computers and back onto consoles,
3. actually try to entice past employees back,
4. make the job more attractive to OS controllers [such as assistance with moving, recognition of experience to transition to same pay level, removal of early exit penalty payment],
5. increase the training salary at the college to attract more (currently $35K -remeber, AsA prefers uni-qualified applicants) & again, remove training bond,
6. set up a retention plan to stop the current ATC's leaving (now there's an idea),
7. give us a decent payrise (once shift penalties are removed, the journeyman salary is only about $52K, and after 13 years, taking off 28% commuted for shiftwork, top pay is $96K - does not really compare favourably to non-shiftwork does it?)
8. hire more support staff (rostering, training, projects etc)
all things AsA could do, but as yet, are not.
Academy resignation
Knackers,
Heard the same from down south yesterday....
Apparently the Ex got sick of being to produce miracles in training by the new girl who thinks training of ATCs is easy!!
We might get all the Global recruits in the world...just no one to train them!!
Heard the same from down south yesterday....
Apparently the Ex got sick of being to produce miracles in training by the new girl who thinks training of ATCs is easy!!
We might get all the Global recruits in the world...just no one to train them!!
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direct,
The Vote-of-No-Confidence is a good idea.
...but, unless it's published in the mainstream media, it may end up being received with an appreciative smile and then passed on to a newly formed advisory group of consultants who've been given twelve months to review a broad range of issues in aviation. The consultants present a preliminary report to the Minister in twelve months time recommending further investigation of issues raised during the review period, requiring more resources and time. The Minister passes the report onto another group of consultants with an amended Terms-of-Reference whilst issuing a public statement emphasising the importance of safety in the industry and the need to thoroughly investigate areas of concern...
...another twelve months passes and another report is submitted to the Minister raising concerns that the industry as a whole is in need of examination. The Minister issues a public statement announcing a major review of the regulation of the Aviation industry in it's entirety. CASA gets a name change, board members resign and new board members take their positions...
However, instead of a petition, if that Vote-of-No-Confidence was published as an Open Letter in The Australian, The West and The Age... it would become a political issue... with political ramifications... with immediate implications for the industry... the whole industry (paying punters don't fly when they read scary aviation things in the paper).
If you publish that letter, I strongly suspect that the Minister would get a phone call from the Chairman or CEO of QANTAS and Virgin Blue after the morning papers had been read over breakfast that day...
The Vote-of-No-Confidence is a good idea.
...but, unless it's published in the mainstream media, it may end up being received with an appreciative smile and then passed on to a newly formed advisory group of consultants who've been given twelve months to review a broad range of issues in aviation. The consultants present a preliminary report to the Minister in twelve months time recommending further investigation of issues raised during the review period, requiring more resources and time. The Minister passes the report onto another group of consultants with an amended Terms-of-Reference whilst issuing a public statement emphasising the importance of safety in the industry and the need to thoroughly investigate areas of concern...
...another twelve months passes and another report is submitted to the Minister raising concerns that the industry as a whole is in need of examination. The Minister issues a public statement announcing a major review of the regulation of the Aviation industry in it's entirety. CASA gets a name change, board members resign and new board members take their positions...
However, instead of a petition, if that Vote-of-No-Confidence was published as an Open Letter in The Australian, The West and The Age... it would become a political issue... with political ramifications... with immediate implications for the industry... the whole industry (paying punters don't fly when they read scary aviation things in the paper).
If you publish that letter, I strongly suspect that the Minister would get a phone call from the Chairman or CEO of QANTAS and Virgin Blue after the morning papers had been read over breakfast that day...
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Vote of no confidence - this would have to include the ALM's.....
They are just as responsible as TFN and his gang of merry bonus collectors.
The ALM circus is has turned into a bunch of "yes men" who sold their soul and the respect of their peers for $$$.
The flying public are SO lucky that ATC generally enjoy the job, because that is all that is left from where I stand.
The Mgt farce bungles from one propaganda message to another. Smoke and mirrors. They even had the audacity to send out more of those "Safety Posters". Well meaning, but the message they are trying to send has been undermined by their actions.
"Report your safety concerns" Er ok. I take it that I will be treated with the same contempt as the Launy crowd.....
Vote of no confidence already exists with the people actually separating aircraft. Get the ball rolling. Spread the word.
Read this thread from start to end and see the ****e that ATC are copping at the moment. See how this thread has run this long and TIBA still rolls on.
And only half of the unnecessary delays and hold ups have been publicised here. Any ATC could tell you stories that would make you cry.
Worlds best practice - pigs arse.....
They are just as responsible as TFN and his gang of merry bonus collectors.
The ALM circus is has turned into a bunch of "yes men" who sold their soul and the respect of their peers for $$$.
The flying public are SO lucky that ATC generally enjoy the job, because that is all that is left from where I stand.
The Mgt farce bungles from one propaganda message to another. Smoke and mirrors. They even had the audacity to send out more of those "Safety Posters". Well meaning, but the message they are trying to send has been undermined by their actions.
"Report your safety concerns" Er ok. I take it that I will be treated with the same contempt as the Launy crowd.....
Vote of no confidence already exists with the people actually separating aircraft. Get the ball rolling. Spread the word.
Read this thread from start to end and see the ****e that ATC are copping at the moment. See how this thread has run this long and TIBA still rolls on.
And only half of the unnecessary delays and hold ups have been publicised here. Any ATC could tell you stories that would make you cry.
Worlds best practice - pigs arse.....
Outoffocus
Vote of no confidence - this would have to include the ALM's.....
They are just as responsible as TFN and his gang of merry bonus collectors.
The ALM circus is has turned into a bunch of "yes men" who sold their soul and the respect of their peers for $$$.
The flying public are SO lucky that ATC generally enjoy the job, because that is all that is left from where I stand.
They are just as responsible as TFN and his gang of merry bonus collectors.
The ALM circus is has turned into a bunch of "yes men" who sold their soul and the respect of their peers for $$$.
The flying public are SO lucky that ATC generally enjoy the job, because that is all that is left from where I stand.
Last edited by cac_sabre; 9th Feb 2008 at 04:51. Reason: quote marks
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Probably gonna get banned for this one .....but for better or worse in the unionised work place that used to exist, ALM's are scabs. In fact I distinctly remember Civil Air going to the IR Commission in 2000 or 2001 to stop this sort of thing when a controller returned from a very brief sojourn in the ME to take up a contract team leader position in BN Centre.
Before anyone starts shouting hypocrisy because I am working in a non-unionised centre here in the ME. Consider this my supervisors (who are rated & current) are chosen on both seniority as well as merit. Also my basic conditions (console hours, days off, leave) are protected by law/regulation which my employer adheres to.
When we ask ourselves (I am including myself) why things have got so bad in Australia, when was the last time you attended a Civil Air meeting other than for a Certified Agreement, when did we last speak to local MP about it, when did we last vote for something other than lower taxes.
Before anyone starts shouting hypocrisy because I am working in a non-unionised centre here in the ME. Consider this my supervisors (who are rated & current) are chosen on both seniority as well as merit. Also my basic conditions (console hours, days off, leave) are protected by law/regulation which my employer adheres to.
When we ask ourselves (I am including myself) why things have got so bad in Australia, when was the last time you attended a Civil Air meeting other than for a Certified Agreement, when did we last speak to local MP about it, when did we last vote for something other than lower taxes.
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In two decades of working for Airservices I never once heard the word "ethics" cross the lips of any Team Leader/ALM, SAAC/SS or Operations/Line Manager. That's not to say that they never acted in an ethical manner... just that it was never discussed and therefore, not reinforced in the culture.
With authority comes responsibility.
With authority comes responsibility.
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ALM's are scabs. In fact I distinctly remember Civil Air going to the IR Commission in 2000 or 2001 to stop this sort of thing when a controller returned from a very brief sojourn in the ME to take up a contract team leader position in BN Centre.
Personally, I think the ALMs got themselves into their current predicament, but (my perceptions are) most applied openly knowing they were crossing the line, but did so for the (their) right reasons. History has shown the faith given in "making" that decision may have been abused. The number one supporter of the current structure has moved on already.
The contract dispute was not an AWA dispute; and was not a TL dispute as such, it was a contract dispute. AWAs cannot be discriminated against in the ways that common law contracts can be; as per the current/previous certified agreement.
As for those ALMs who have inherited the 'bad will' you have an opportunity to stand up and make a difference; the actions you take in the near future, despite the 'blocking' level 3's will make or break you in the eyes of staff. Stand up for "your employees"; don't role over and be forever cast as a "yes man".
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I realise that I'm one of the lucky few working in a location where I'm comfortable that most of my ALMs will not only back me up in a pinch, they will also continue to operate in an ethical manner. When they changed title from TL to ALM under a flawed management fad that was forced upon them they didn't suddenly become three-headed monsters. Sure, there is the odd bad apple in there, but they were the same tools before the change, we all know who are they are, and in an effort to change things for the better within this craphole organisation (from LVL 3 up) the good guys at ALM level will continue to receive my support.
Ethics
In two decades of working for Airservices I never once heard the word "ethics" cross the lips of any Team Leader/ALM, SAAC/SS or Operations/Line Manager. That's not to say that they never acted in an ethical manner... just that it was never discussed and therefore, not reinforced in the culture.
With authority comes responsibility.
With authority comes responsibility.
How to finish this post?
Everyone is responsible, we collectively have made the culture what it is. Ethical behaviour is not something that is confined to leadership, but if leaders don't lead by example the chances for change are slim. Leadership and ethical / appropriate behaviour are some of parameters an ALM's performance is judged on. Trouble is there is too much "bad stuff" happening out there for this message to spread or be taken at face value. I appreciate its hard to remember you are trying to drain the swamp when you are up to your bum in alligators, but its important we don't lose the plot and fight amongst ourselves.
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Cac_sabre and (i assume) Frink, you guys work away from BN and ML centres. I assume that most of the guys in regionals who were team leaders stayed where they were and transioned to the new role, hence generally good folk still in positions of authority. Most of you guys are well respected from feedback and do a great job.
The two big centres were very different. Sure, a couple have taken on the role with all good intentions and do genuinely seem to want to do the right thing and will go into bat for staff. However the selection process saw most of the best people here walk away from the role rather than sell their soul to AsA. The rest is history...
As I have posted before, the infighting should be on a more appropriate forum, not aired here in public.
The two big centres were very different. Sure, a couple have taken on the role with all good intentions and do genuinely seem to want to do the right thing and will go into bat for staff. However the selection process saw most of the best people here walk away from the role rather than sell their soul to AsA. The rest is history...
As I have posted before, the infighting should be on a more appropriate forum, not aired here in public.
Last edited by No IFR Traffic; 9th Feb 2008 at 12:40. Reason: Cac_sabre beat me to the post.
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Cac_sabre,
As an ALM you more than anyone should realise that the position does not have the confidence of the people you "support". The perception - real or not - is that it has become an overpaid administrative position with little or no relevance to the frontline controllers.
My comments come from personal experience with the process. Granted, there will always be exceptions to the rule, but sadly actions speak louder than words.
Respect and support would be earned if ALM's collectively told TFN that it is not working. How long are we going to wait until it does? Years? Need full staffing to even get a snowflakes chance in hell. When is that happening? Years at least!
This is not divisive. I am not anti mgt. I AM anti stupidity and illogical processes.
From where I sit a quick and cost effective step towards reducing the impact of the staff shortage is to roll back the ALM "process". Replace the overpaid multitudes with 1 x Manager and 1 x Administrative clerk (or similar).
The Mgr can then LEAD, MANAGE and co-ordinate. Nothing ever gets done by committee - thats why they have them
The admin person does not have to be an ATC or an ex-rated person. The legal profession seems to be able to train skill specific people to a suitable standard.
The other ALM hangers on could then re-obtain their ratings and get back to where they are needed most - the various unmanned consoles.
ATC as a rule don't want or need homework assignments - masquerading as "tasks" - and to be scored and given smiley stamps or frowny stamps when they bring it in the next day.
Most just want to keep the people tubes apart and for someone to say "Good job" when they deal with a sequence from hell.
Can't be that hard can it....
As an ALM you more than anyone should realise that the position does not have the confidence of the people you "support". The perception - real or not - is that it has become an overpaid administrative position with little or no relevance to the frontline controllers.
My comments come from personal experience with the process. Granted, there will always be exceptions to the rule, but sadly actions speak louder than words.
Respect and support would be earned if ALM's collectively told TFN that it is not working. How long are we going to wait until it does? Years? Need full staffing to even get a snowflakes chance in hell. When is that happening? Years at least!
This is not divisive. I am not anti mgt. I AM anti stupidity and illogical processes.
From where I sit a quick and cost effective step towards reducing the impact of the staff shortage is to roll back the ALM "process". Replace the overpaid multitudes with 1 x Manager and 1 x Administrative clerk (or similar).
The Mgr can then LEAD, MANAGE and co-ordinate. Nothing ever gets done by committee - thats why they have them
The admin person does not have to be an ATC or an ex-rated person. The legal profession seems to be able to train skill specific people to a suitable standard.
The other ALM hangers on could then re-obtain their ratings and get back to where they are needed most - the various unmanned consoles.
ATC as a rule don't want or need homework assignments - masquerading as "tasks" - and to be scored and given smiley stamps or frowny stamps when they bring it in the next day.
Most just want to keep the people tubes apart and for someone to say "Good job" when they deal with a sequence from hell.
Can't be that hard can it....
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We can't blame the ALMs for the system under which they were appointed. A professional organisation needs a management hierachy, and it needs people who are prepared to put their hands up to fill those positions. As the song goes, if this is the only game in town, don't complain about the cards you're dealt; you have to play them the best you can.
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The problem with the system is that in the centres the incumbents said no due to the terms and the climbers took their place. My OS who worked traffic along side me and also was my first reporting point for any concerns has been replaced by a person who's first actions were to sprout crap about what good ideas SDE and returning to single doggo's are and now can't understand why nobody has any respect for him and the other yes men.
Hand's they were dealt? Please, spare me. I myself did not apply as it is contract labour in ATC positions. Anyone who tries to describe it as anything else is just kidding themself. Funk is on the money.
I can see why some chose to go down that avenue. I can also see why every single new wave of controllers thinks we have sold them out, BECAUSE WE (collectively) HAVE. The stupid part of this is that we gained nothing from it. We agreed to crappier and crappier new conditions for various groups for all of CPI and agreed to work more hours traded off against additional leave that was less that the extra hours. I am still trying to work out how the membership voted to work 52 extra hours for 36 hours leave. Might as well have said 'Look, we will work 16 hours for free'. The outcome would have been less time at work than we have to do now with the 'win'
Lets remember what happened at Cathay a few years ago. Those B scalers will out number us soon enough.
As pointed out above, this discussion is best had elsewhere as it has nothing to do with the AsA staffing levels. If anything, it is better than the days every single group had 3 Team Leader all running around the halls doing F all.... from a STAFFING perspective.
I can see why some chose to go down that avenue. I can also see why every single new wave of controllers thinks we have sold them out, BECAUSE WE (collectively) HAVE. The stupid part of this is that we gained nothing from it. We agreed to crappier and crappier new conditions for various groups for all of CPI and agreed to work more hours traded off against additional leave that was less that the extra hours. I am still trying to work out how the membership voted to work 52 extra hours for 36 hours leave.
Might as well have said 'Look, we will work 16 hours for free'. The outcome would have been less time at work than we have to do now with the 'win'Lets remember what happened at Cathay a few years ago. Those B scalers will out number us soon enough.
As pointed out above, this discussion is best had elsewhere as it has nothing to do with the AsA staffing levels. If anything, it is better than the days every single group had 3 Team Leader all running around the halls doing F all.... from a STAFFING perspective.
Last edited by Plazbot; 10th Feb 2008 at 20:34.