Mega Merged: Qantas Long Haul Cabin Crew Eba8 Negotiations
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I posted this....
[QUOTE]:Pegasus said that it was illegal for any promotion or selection criteria to be included in the EBA document.
Why then did the company include the clause that BFA crew could apply for CSM in this latest EBA?[QUOTE]
Then Pegasus posted this....
My answer to that is.......I thought so....
[QUOTE]:Pegasus said that it was illegal for any promotion or selection criteria to be included in the EBA document.
Why then did the company include the clause that BFA crew could apply for CSM in this latest EBA?[QUOTE]
Then Pegasus posted this....
THE FAAA and flight attendants dont have control of promotions and never will even if we wanted to ..so lets move on
Pegasus and Co. are doing their best to ignore these questions and I can only assume it is because they don’t have any answer’s.
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Peg Answers Lobey...but
There you go Lobey you have your answers..happy now?
Me suggesting you are vexatious(onlooker) is not name calling...but both an informed opinion and a statement of fact.
You are now outside the barbed wire fence and as such your questions are irrelevant to your circumstance ...enjoy your retirement....I know we will.
As both Pegasus and Defcon 4 have said....vote up the EBA or face oblivion.
Not that hard to make a choice really.There are parts of the EBA I am not happy with...but...there are other parts I am happy about.Negotiating is all about compromise.....the consensus so far amongst colleagues is that they are prepared to compromise and survive.Most LHCC dont want to fly that French monstrousity.There are a large number of 744s that still have plenty of cycles left in them....they have to go somewhere.Il Duce has stated that mainline will have a new destination every year for the next ten years.
There is growth to accommodate any loss of other destinations...South America for example will be a destination sometime next year
Me suggesting you are vexatious(onlooker) is not name calling...but both an informed opinion and a statement of fact.
You are now outside the barbed wire fence and as such your questions are irrelevant to your circumstance ...enjoy your retirement....I know we will.
As both Pegasus and Defcon 4 have said....vote up the EBA or face oblivion.
Not that hard to make a choice really.There are parts of the EBA I am not happy with...but...there are other parts I am happy about.Negotiating is all about compromise.....the consensus so far amongst colleagues is that they are prepared to compromise and survive.Most LHCC dont want to fly that French monstrousity.There are a large number of 744s that still have plenty of cycles left in them....they have to go somewhere.Il Duce has stated that mainline will have a new destination every year for the next ten years.
There is growth to accommodate any loss of other destinations...South America for example will be a destination sometime next year
Last edited by surfside6; 4th Dec 2007 at 04:07.
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Surfside....I think you need to see an optometrist..There must be one in Mascot ....
Surfside.....WHAT ANSWERS??????
Here is Pegasus' post..
Surfside....If you put down the thesaurus for a minute and read my post there were 3 questions.....and not one of them was answered....and to be honest I didn't expect them to be because you really don't want anyone to know the answer's.
So my response was....I thought so...
Originally posted by Surfside...."There you go Lobey you have your answers..happy now?"
Here is Pegasus' post..
all answers are being given to FAAA members at the meetings and in email responses.
I dont believe the FAAA has any obligation to provide information to non members or interested observers, or certainly to anonymous forums.
I dont believe the FAAA has any obligation to provide information to non members or interested observers, or certainly to anonymous forums.
So my response was....I thought so...
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Location of Lobey's Answer
Post 640 .....second line.
You are not an FAAA member but rather an observer and are therefore not entitled to answers.If you would like to volunteer to work in the FAAA office,I am sure with your expertise and enquiring mind they find something for you to do.Then you could have ALL your questions answered every day.
You are not an FAAA member but rather an observer and are therefore not entitled to answers.If you would like to volunteer to work in the FAAA office,I am sure with your expertise and enquiring mind they find something for you to do.Then you could have ALL your questions answered every day.
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well I'm crew and I want some answers.Lobey raises some good questions and one of them is something I want an answer to.
What about the transfer list boys?
What have you got to scared of by answering ?
With the blimp it looks like thee company got what it wanted because there won't be many l/h crew applying for that with the conditions and that they have to stay there for 2 years.Why can't we have cross crewing?No wonder Dixon was so happy about this deal with the union.
This eba does devalue our jobs and if anyone say's it doesn't their kidding themselves.This gives us all a used by date of about 5 years unless time at home and money is not a problem.But after what s/h did to us is there anything else we could do?
This eba is like a iceberg,you can see a bit of it but there is a lot more under the surface.
What about the transfer list boys?
What have you got to scared of by answering ?
With the blimp it looks like thee company got what it wanted because there won't be many l/h crew applying for that with the conditions and that they have to stay there for 2 years.Why can't we have cross crewing?No wonder Dixon was so happy about this deal with the union.
This eba does devalue our jobs and if anyone say's it doesn't their kidding themselves.This gives us all a used by date of about 5 years unless time at home and money is not a problem.But after what s/h did to us is there anything else we could do?
This eba is like a iceberg,you can see a bit of it but there is a lot more under the surface.
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Red T bar,
If you are an FAAA member ring the office thats what you pay your fees for??? if you are waiting for an FAAA official to post in an anonymous forum something that a member is entitled to know then the member can contact the FAAA
fond regards ( if of course you are an FAAA member)
It might interest people to know that most of the former senior FAAA team resigned as FAAA members after losing election last time. Such was their philosophical attachment to crew and the union movement.
hyprocracy i say
If you are an FAAA member ring the office thats what you pay your fees for??? if you are waiting for an FAAA official to post in an anonymous forum something that a member is entitled to know then the member can contact the FAAA
fond regards ( if of course you are an FAAA member)
It might interest people to know that most of the former senior FAAA team resigned as FAAA members after losing election last time. Such was their philosophical attachment to crew and the union movement.
hyprocracy i say
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Peg,my question has not got a thing to do with the eba and is not a thing of national security.I don't think the world will stop if you tell us what you think.
I have talked to a union person about this and got the impression that he couldn't care less.His answer was sort of live with it.
Do you think the system of transfers is fair.Yes or NO?
If you think it should be changed then we can talk about it at the meetings but I have the feeling that the meetings will be taken up with the eba.
I have talked to a union person about this and got the impression that he couldn't care less.His answer was sort of live with it.
Do you think the system of transfers is fair.Yes or NO?
If you think it should be changed then we can talk about it at the meetings but I have the feeling that the meetings will be taken up with the eba.
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Oh For Gods Sake
If you want an answer to your Question make a phone call or send an email.(to the FAAA)Thats what I do and I usually get an answer in a day or two.You could be anybody..in particular a non union crewmember looking fo a freebie.
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Like I said packrat I did ask someone from the union before sign on and all I got was "well thats the way it is and it wouldn't be fair to those in the bases who want to transfer to sydney"
What are you going on about with a freebie?what the hell is a freebie?I wanted a yes or no answer.
I could ring like you said but I don't have all day to wait for someone to ring me back.You might no mind waiting a day or 2 but I have better things to do.
If you don't want to talk on pprune what is the point of having this thread.
Can someone start a thread about the weather
Lobey is right the usuals don't want anything asked because they don't want the truth out.
I was not going to tell this but after our great union reps cannot even an answer a yes or no question but a mate of mine that took the last package told me something which just about sums these guys up.After he took the package he had a reason to call the union and was told that he should ring the company and ask them as he was no longer a union member.
That was after 25 years of loyal and financial membership.
What are you going on about with a freebie?what the hell is a freebie?I wanted a yes or no answer.
I could ring like you said but I don't have all day to wait for someone to ring me back.You might no mind waiting a day or 2 but I have better things to do.
If you don't want to talk on pprune what is the point of having this thread.
Can someone start a thread about the weather
Lobey is right the usuals don't want anything asked because they don't want the truth out.
I was not going to tell this but after our great union reps cannot even an answer a yes or no question but a mate of mine that took the last package told me something which just about sums these guys up.After he took the package he had a reason to call the union and was told that he should ring the company and ask them as he was no longer a union member.
That was after 25 years of loyal and financial membership.
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Peg, when I asked what would happen if the EBA was rejected you replied,
If the EBA is voted down, then in January the SHort Haul Union will start its negotiations with Qantas. If there is anything left after that then i am sure we will talk to Qantas again and try and get something.
Surely this is a golden opportunity for both unions to join forces . If we can do this we all stand a greater chance of getting a better deal for all of us.
The company have been playing both sides against each other, to them it's like watching 2 dogs fighting over a bone, Divide and conquer. They must be laughing at us .
If we can stand united, we could all be winners.
If the EBA is voted down, then in January the SHort Haul Union will start its negotiations with Qantas. If there is anything left after that then i am sure we will talk to Qantas again and try and get something.
Surely this is a golden opportunity for both unions to join forces . If we can do this we all stand a greater chance of getting a better deal for all of us.
The company have been playing both sides against each other, to them it's like watching 2 dogs fighting over a bone, Divide and conquer. They must be laughing at us .
If we can stand united, we could all be winners.
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EBA issues
It does take a few days to digest alot of the info.
The big question is how much of the flying will the 20 A380s take ?
at least 10 will most likely do the states as the company has been talking about increasing capacity to strengthen our market share. If we have 10 A380s going to the states it means we wont be on them, not if its on equivalent of the london base condittions.
Yes we have appeared to have capured the flying on he 787 -regional. I can imagine what some of the pattens might look like.
So in the end we have to decide is only 20% of us on the A380 and plenty of 787 on arduous regional patterns a good deal?
Still thinking hard about it.
I was informed about a site which has alternative views and food for thought. add ******** then dot com after the following.
TUF07.
Id be interested to hear your thoughts.
I think Pegasus is right. whoever he/she is, its not for a rep to try and sell an eba on here its really better for us to discuss it and make others aware of any potential pitfalls and discuss the good, the bad and the ugly.
The big question is how much of the flying will the 20 A380s take ?
at least 10 will most likely do the states as the company has been talking about increasing capacity to strengthen our market share. If we have 10 A380s going to the states it means we wont be on them, not if its on equivalent of the london base condittions.
Yes we have appeared to have capured the flying on he 787 -regional. I can imagine what some of the pattens might look like.
So in the end we have to decide is only 20% of us on the A380 and plenty of 787 on arduous regional patterns a good deal?
Still thinking hard about it.
I was informed about a site which has alternative views and food for thought. add ******** then dot com after the following.
TUF07.
Id be interested to hear your thoughts.
I think Pegasus is right. whoever he/she is, its not for a rep to try and sell an eba on here its really better for us to discuss it and make others aware of any potential pitfalls and discuss the good, the bad and the ugly.
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Here Here L4P!!
Could you imagine how different it would be if we were to join forces and set aside some of the past differences, grievances, etc.
Of course the company will try God knows what to try and circumvent the impact of a united workforce, but at least we would be a ****load stronger.
But as usual, its probably in the too hard basket and the company will get what it wants at all of our expense.
Could you imagine how different it would be if we were to join forces and set aside some of the past differences, grievances, etc.
Of course the company will try God knows what to try and circumvent the impact of a united workforce, but at least we would be a ****load stronger.
But as usual, its probably in the too hard basket and the company will get what it wants at all of our expense.
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Amateurs
The EBA in principle has been negotiated by experts and been hammered out out over months of hard work research and careful thought.
Do you honestly think that the people responsible for this outcome would provide you with the second best option.?
If this gets voted down do you honestly think QF management will say "Oh gosh the crew arent happy, maybe we should have a rethink chaps."?
You naive amateurs...go to the meetings and get some information and then make an informed decision.I doubt anyone in the forum(apart from Guardian,Eden and Peg747)have even seen the bloody document.
Or as one twit said you havent "got time to wait around all day for an answer"
This is your job and your flying future...give it some serious informed thought for more than a nano second.
Forget about trying to forge some sort of allegiance with the Domestics...they are yesterdays toast.
Trying to amalgamate with them has been tried and failed...miserably.
Their last EBA illustrates perfectly how inept they are at negotiating and how indifferent they are to our welfare.
Wake up you Totos...this is not Kansas
Do you honestly think that the people responsible for this outcome would provide you with the second best option.?
If this gets voted down do you honestly think QF management will say "Oh gosh the crew arent happy, maybe we should have a rethink chaps."?
You naive amateurs...go to the meetings and get some information and then make an informed decision.I doubt anyone in the forum(apart from Guardian,Eden and Peg747)have even seen the bloody document.
Or as one twit said you havent "got time to wait around all day for an answer"
This is your job and your flying future...give it some serious informed thought for more than a nano second.
Forget about trying to forge some sort of allegiance with the Domestics...they are yesterdays toast.
Trying to amalgamate with them has been tried and failed...miserably.
Their last EBA illustrates perfectly how inept they are at negotiating and how indifferent they are to our welfare.
Wake up you Totos...this is not Kansas
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Defcon4
I could not have summed it up better defcon:-)
People like you give me hope and restore my faith in humanity.
The level of naivety is extraordinary...... and if you label it for what it is, one is labelled arrogant.
People like you give me hope and restore my faith in humanity.
The level of naivety is extraordinary...... and if you label it for what it is, one is labelled arrogant.
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Defcon4 And Guardian
I agree guys, you gotta shake your head in disbelief at some of the stuff that is posted here.
Mijatov, Reed etc have been officials for years...... they know their stuff inside out...they are supported by Industrial Officers and specialist lawyers and they are being second-guessed and criticised by some in here who don't have a clue.
It must be galling and disheartening to work your guts out as they have , to achieve a great outcome and then have amateurs speaking with "such authority" on matters about which they are way out of their depth.
I break out in laughter when people "demand" answers on here from posters who they assume are FAAA officials....... as DEFCON said, you would think they would ring the FAAA Office or attend a bloody meeting!!! LOL
And to our mate RedT bar, it doesn't take 1 or 2 days to get an answer from the FAAA....... most calls are taken immediately and all calls are returned on the day...if Will Ash the FAAA staff member who takes queries happens to be busy.
But alas, fiction posted on here is more believable by some, than fact.
To MM, SR etc...i would not do their job in a million years, dealing with dummies would drive me insane.
Mijatov, Reed etc have been officials for years...... they know their stuff inside out...they are supported by Industrial Officers and specialist lawyers and they are being second-guessed and criticised by some in here who don't have a clue.
It must be galling and disheartening to work your guts out as they have , to achieve a great outcome and then have amateurs speaking with "such authority" on matters about which they are way out of their depth.
I break out in laughter when people "demand" answers on here from posters who they assume are FAAA officials....... as DEFCON said, you would think they would ring the FAAA Office or attend a bloody meeting!!! LOL
And to our mate RedT bar, it doesn't take 1 or 2 days to get an answer from the FAAA....... most calls are taken immediately and all calls are returned on the day...if Will Ash the FAAA staff member who takes queries happens to be busy.
But alas, fiction posted on here is more believable by some, than fact.
To MM, SR etc...i would not do their job in a million years, dealing with dummies would drive me insane.
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Defcon 4
Thats right we havent seen the document, All we have had is our FAAA officials tell us how good it is.
No offence but we have had previous officials tell us the same thing.
It was the current officials who so roundly criticised former officials for exactly the same thing and now they wonder why we are skeptical when we havent seen the document.
The former officials did release their document before the last eba. I think MM had something to do with that.
We need the document not just a biased viewpoint. As they say the devil is in the detail. When do we see the document?
By the way its these sort of discussions on here which is what eba discussion is all about. Guardian with due respect i dont think any on here pretend to be an expert. While that is said defcon i wouldnt call our flight attendant union officials expert either. Like us they are professional flight attendants having a go doing their best, they ae NOT experts and we have found out in the past that the Company is. Remember hindsight wont help us if we havent covered all the loop holes.
There is no such hing as a stupid question. There is such a thing as arrogance for those who cant look at alternatives or admit they may have made a slight error and consider the possibilty because of their own ego.
Imagine how many different historical battles might have had different outcomes because a leader realised an error of judgement in the middle of a battle and corrected it.
Im not saying one has been made here but i would feel comfortable if we had that sort of open minded.flexibility and intellect in our FAAA leadership. lets hope we have.
With continued references to former officials it appears his migh be more about ego rather than substance.
No offence but we have had previous officials tell us the same thing.
It was the current officials who so roundly criticised former officials for exactly the same thing and now they wonder why we are skeptical when we havent seen the document.
The former officials did release their document before the last eba. I think MM had something to do with that.
We need the document not just a biased viewpoint. As they say the devil is in the detail. When do we see the document?
By the way its these sort of discussions on here which is what eba discussion is all about. Guardian with due respect i dont think any on here pretend to be an expert. While that is said defcon i wouldnt call our flight attendant union officials expert either. Like us they are professional flight attendants having a go doing their best, they ae NOT experts and we have found out in the past that the Company is. Remember hindsight wont help us if we havent covered all the loop holes.
There is no such hing as a stupid question. There is such a thing as arrogance for those who cant look at alternatives or admit they may have made a slight error and consider the possibilty because of their own ego.
Imagine how many different historical battles might have had different outcomes because a leader realised an error of judgement in the middle of a battle and corrected it.
Im not saying one has been made here but i would feel comfortable if we had that sort of open minded.flexibility and intellect in our FAAA leadership. lets hope we have.
With continued references to former officials it appears his migh be more about ego rather than substance.
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hawke eye
Generally hawkeye, i don't disagree about much of what you have just said.
I attended todays FAAA meeting...... MM and SR are cabin crew.... but they are also very experienced in terms of industrial issues.
MM has done 7 EBA's and SR 2. I know the current FAAA officials fairly well, MM has had more EBA experience than many Industrial Officers in most unions.
Reed and Mijatov have clearly vast and detailed industrial knowledge, way above a professional flight attendant who just flies. Perhaps i know much more about them than you...... i also know that QF regards them as very competent.
What is also a matter of fact that the FAAA under MM has delivered two of our best EBA's ( 7 and now 8).
At todays meeting it was clearly stated that the EBA document will be available shortly. The FAAA wants to brief people in detail , rather than waiting before the actual document is completed by the FAAA and QF.
Im certain that giving a document that is more than 100 pages , before actually explaining the changes isn't going to be beneficial to the vast majority of crew, who often don't even read a single page newsletter.
I attended todays FAAA meeting...... MM and SR are cabin crew.... but they are also very experienced in terms of industrial issues.
MM has done 7 EBA's and SR 2. I know the current FAAA officials fairly well, MM has had more EBA experience than many Industrial Officers in most unions.
Reed and Mijatov have clearly vast and detailed industrial knowledge, way above a professional flight attendant who just flies. Perhaps i know much more about them than you...... i also know that QF regards them as very competent.
What is also a matter of fact that the FAAA under MM has delivered two of our best EBA's ( 7 and now 8).
At todays meeting it was clearly stated that the EBA document will be available shortly. The FAAA wants to brief people in detail , rather than waiting before the actual document is completed by the FAAA and QF.
Im certain that giving a document that is more than 100 pages , before actually explaining the changes isn't going to be beneficial to the vast majority of crew, who often don't even read a single page newsletter.
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Lowerlobe, if you are not part of the company, not a financial member of the union, what gives you the right to waste the time of the union officials we all contribute to in order to ask your never ending questions? Your posts over the years have always been so critical of everything the union does.
They have a few more serious issues to address rather than those of some former disgruntled flight attendent who is not part of the company any more.
There are some bigger issues here well above who and how people get promoted to CSM. Most out on the line do not have such a major issue with it at the moment compared to lots of other things we have to deal with (ie. EBA's, our futures).
They have a few more serious issues to address rather than those of some former disgruntled flight attendent who is not part of the company any more.
There are some bigger issues here well above who and how people get promoted to CSM. Most out on the line do not have such a major issue with it at the moment compared to lots of other things we have to deal with (ie. EBA's, our futures).
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Apparently what is happening is the new company that Qantas have developed (Qantas Cabin Crew Australia) will be recruiting for the A380 and all employed will be A380 crew ONLY working on common law contracts. Salries and conditions well below what longhaul crew are on now.