Mega Merged: Qantas Long Haul Cabin Crew Eba8 Negotiations

[twiggs]

Totally agree packrat.
It makes you wonder what things would be like if everybody knew how to make the most of the current system.
I think one of the problems though is that is is beyond the capability of many crew to understand it, let alone utilise it to its maximum benefit.

I mean even now, a lot of crew think we already have a new bid system called CARMEN!
Now CARMEN is actually JEPPESEN in a different incarnation, but only the name of the company that makes the software.
For those that do not know, the CARMEN software that is in use, just makes the patterns, it is nothing to do with how trips are allocated.

Maybe that's why they didn't bother?
A new system will be far more user friendly but whether we get better rosters will depend on EBA negotiations.

[RedTBar]

A new system will be far more user friendly

That is information that is interesting.Twiggs how and where did you get that information from?

Carmen is an airline crew work system that Jeppesen has made.Twiggs has said that "Now CARMEN is actually JEPPESEN in a different incarnation".This is not strictly true.Jeppesen has made the program called carmen but there are many different parts to the program.

A simple analogy is that of a car.Jeppesen makes that car and you can buy the base model or you can buy the car fitted out with all the extras.

Our company has bought the base model at the moment which as Twiggs has said builds patterns.However,the company can buy extra modules to what ever they want.The cost though increases for each new module or program just as it does when you option up your new car.If you want leather seats in your new car it will cost you more and so do any extras the company may want if they want to have more control over the bidding.

What Carmen is capable of depends on how much the company wants to spend.If they spend big and buy the whole box and dice then they will almost certainly want trade offs to get their money back.They will not be spending money just so that we can have better rosters.

Remember the difference between what the company said about this bid system when it was announced and what we found out the hard way.

For Twiggs to say that the new roster system will be "more user friendly" is very interesting because only those in the company looking at this would know that.

Certainly the company would like us to think this way.

[speedbirdhouse]

Quote-

"Certainly the company would like us to think this way."

Yes Twiggs, wouldn't they........?

[twiggs]

I have no idea what the company wants, I'm only a full time flyer.

[labia vortex]

Dont Know

So if you dont know Twiggs then you are just assuming.
Please..... just the facts,not assumptions.
Its hard to keep up with whats what without trying to sort what is assumption as well.

[twiggs]

Originally Posted by labia vortex

So if you dont know Twiggs then you are just assuming.

What exactly am I assuming?

If it's that a new bidding software would be easier to bid with than a 20 year old system, then I'm guilty.

(and unrepentant)

[lowerlobe]

Twiggsy girl ,here you are and here is that hole again and it is only you doing the digging.

[twiggs]

Lobe, go forth and multiply.

[RedTBar]

Twiggs,
I think that last post of yours is totally uncalled for and deserves to be retracted/deleted.If you can't debate and explain yourself then don't bother posting.
Small wonder that most here believe that you are here to get the thread banned.

[gigs]

you guys may do well to read MAM and 747s tread on page 2 of cabin crew section on prune........."ITS JUMBO TIME" maybe there is something that can be done like, s/haul be able to sign up 2 l/haul faaa.........hello! cheers gigs

[speedbirdhouse]

Easier said than done??

Yes gigs the slide in conditions for ALL QF flight attendants could surely be halted if we we all represented by one STRONG union.

How that might be achieved however is beyond me.

[gigs]

jp helped set up mam, given what has been said on prune re. s/haul faaa and jp, how the hell the s/haul faaa is still here is beyond me! cheers gigs ps a little more than one union is what is required its the relationship between faaa and mam that is the problem!........at what stage shall it become your problem again!!!!!!!!????????

[lowerlobe]

For any new attitude or amalgamation of unions to occur there would have to be a large amount of dissent amongst S/H crew.

For those S/H crew here what is the general feeling amongst your crew reagrding the S/H union and it's relationship with MAM?

If S/H are happy with their direction then there will be no amalgamation.

However, the idea of one union representing Australian based crew would have to be a win.

As Speedbirdhouse said how that will be achieved is anyone's guess.

FOT

[indamiddle]

one union

s/h fly longhaul
l/h fly shorthaul
may as well have one union
re bidding systems
i don't have any confidence that a new bid system will work any better
than a 20 year old system and even less confidence that management
would know the difference...except where it concerns them.
FOG

[priapism]

Is there any way that parallel bidding runs be done using both systems over a few months so an accurate comparison can be done.? It would give the F.A's a fair comparison and give them a chance to get a grip on any different nuances with putting in a bid.

As an ex ansett blocking rep , when we switched over from a non Y2K compliant program to a Y2K compliant one we ran parallel runs , both to compare and test the new system.

[lowerlobe]

priapism...Your suggestion of running both systems together might work but only if the company could be trusted to fully exploit the new system and show you what they intend to do with it.

With any new software program the people running it do not have to use it to it's full capability and thats the problem.

With the CARMEN system it's capable of doing a lot more than the current system.

It's a bit like driving a new Ferrari and your old commodore ,sure you can drive them both at 60 km/h to prove they're as safe as each other but the Ferrari can also be driven at 250km/h when no one's looking

FOT

[mrpaxing]

it also depends

what you put in the system (or take out). Red Tbar explained it in detail.
Management also wants to know the outcome of the eba before the can add limitation to the system.

[Mr Seatback 2]

In case anyone feels bothered...take a look at the Tiger Airways Melbourne thread in the Cabin Crew forums, for an idea of what kind of selfishness we're all up against in the race to the bottom...

breathtaking...for all the wrong reasons...

[stubby jumbo]

Strewth Seatback...............you're not wrong.

Reminds me of watching an episode of Romper Room.

These people are "dreami'n" if they think that Tiger ( aka Temasek /aka SQ aka Singtel/Optus) are not going to drive them ( Tiger staff) to the brink.

The only ones who are going to come out ahead from the Tiger is the "equine flu-free" Punter.

[lowerlobe]

The part I don't understand is that so many people are willing to accept pathetic conditions for what?

Can someone tell me the attraction of working for a LCC for peanuts?

When I started flying it was a way of life and the beauty was that we were paid for it.

These days I can understand that people are caught with a mortgage,family etc... and cannot leave.Why though are people falling over themselves to join when they know what the pay and conditions are going to be like.

I also read the Tiger thread and romper room is an apt description.The talk there about pay better than J* and then argueing about it.

How will Tiger get market share and win against VB and J* and have lower fares if they pay more than VB and J*...To those thinking of working for them think about it.

I know of one person that joined J* and is having a hell of a time making ends meet.Yet they never seem to have problems getting people to join.

BTW..

FOT