Mega Merged: Qantas Long Haul Cabin Crew Eba8 Negotiations
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Lets see TL, there is a site generated by pilots for pilots like PPrune, and there are sites made for cabin crew by cabin crew (ie. http://www.cabincrew.com/ccnetwork/default.asp). This one even has a special section for Australian and New Zealand Cabin Crew.
Given the logic of the posters here, perhaps it would make more sense for pilots to take their discussion over to the Cabin Crew Website. Or is it just a handful who have been banned from everywhere else who choose to post here?
Given the logic of the posters here, perhaps it would make more sense for pilots to take their discussion over to the Cabin Crew Website. Or is it just a handful who have been banned from everywhere else who choose to post here?
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Australian Debating Style
The Mod in the CC forum did not appear to understand the muscularity of the Australian debating style.
As was/is her right we were cast into the exterior darkness.
We have been here for awhile.
So why now do you take exception to our presence?
There appears to be room enough to accommodate everyone.
We tried to establish a QF LHCC forum but that was denied us.
We appear to be accepted by the Mod here so why not try to be alittle neighbourly instead of giving us the "Skygod" attitude?
As was/is her right we were cast into the exterior darkness.
We have been here for awhile.
So why now do you take exception to our presence?
There appears to be room enough to accommodate everyone.
We tried to establish a QF LHCC forum but that was denied us.
We appear to be accepted by the Mod here so why not try to be alittle neighbourly instead of giving us the "Skygod" attitude?
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Faaa Poll On Bid System
23 August 2007
Attention all Qantas Long Haul Flight Attendants
FAAA WEBSITE POLL
The FAAA is happy to advise members that we have enhanced our website to allow polling of members. This new facility will allow the FAAA to rapidly check the “pulse” of our members on a range of important issues and thus get a valuable, accurate and speedy indicator of where members stand on important issues.
The new facility will be an invaluable tool in the lead up to EBA8 negotiations.
To vote and to see the updated voting result, a member will have to log on to the FAAA website. The system will only allow (1) vote from a member for each poll question.
Our first poll of Qantas Long Haul crew asks the question:
“DO YOU SUPPORT THE CURRENT BID SYSTEM”
Please vote and urge other crew to vote and we can all be in a better position to understand what Long Haul crew , as a group, think about topical issues.
Written and authorised by Michael Mijatov –Secretary International Division
20 Ewan Street Mascot NSW 2020 Tel 61 2 8337 1111 Fax 61 2 8337 1122 Emergency Contact 0414 894 192
Attention all Qantas Long Haul Flight Attendants
FAAA WEBSITE POLL
The FAAA is happy to advise members that we have enhanced our website to allow polling of members. This new facility will allow the FAAA to rapidly check the “pulse” of our members on a range of important issues and thus get a valuable, accurate and speedy indicator of where members stand on important issues.
The new facility will be an invaluable tool in the lead up to EBA8 negotiations.
To vote and to see the updated voting result, a member will have to log on to the FAAA website. The system will only allow (1) vote from a member for each poll question.
Our first poll of Qantas Long Haul crew asks the question:
“DO YOU SUPPORT THE CURRENT BID SYSTEM”
Please vote and urge other crew to vote and we can all be in a better position to understand what Long Haul crew , as a group, think about topical issues.
Written and authorised by Michael Mijatov –Secretary International Division
20 Ewan Street Mascot NSW 2020 Tel 61 2 8337 1111 Fax 61 2 8337 1122 Emergency Contact 0414 894 192
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should make some
interesting polling. why doesn't the faaa extend the polling to a whole range of issues.
proper wage increase
more benefits
more flexiblitiy in rostering
live open time trip swaps
one reserve line for all bases
SUPER ANNUATION PAID TO THE ACTUAL HOURS WORKED ( we still get short changed by about 25% in super payments)
profit sharing like the domestic pilots EBA
sign on bonus like the domestic pilots EBA
divisor can be increased (seasonal or for for individuals) but MPT cannot be infringed
100 % 75% 50 % roster (adjusted on an anual bases)
performance based bonuses for all crew on sector targets (duty free and customer satisfaction)
return of more regional flying
A380 /787 flying
Cap on overseas bases (difficult due to legislation but should be in the mix)
fatigue management program for ultra long range and multi sector flying
Lets have it
proper wage increase
more benefits
more flexiblitiy in rostering
live open time trip swaps
one reserve line for all bases
SUPER ANNUATION PAID TO THE ACTUAL HOURS WORKED ( we still get short changed by about 25% in super payments)
profit sharing like the domestic pilots EBA
sign on bonus like the domestic pilots EBA
divisor can be increased (seasonal or for for individuals) but MPT cannot be infringed
100 % 75% 50 % roster (adjusted on an anual bases)
performance based bonuses for all crew on sector targets (duty free and customer satisfaction)
return of more regional flying
A380 /787 flying
Cap on overseas bases (difficult due to legislation but should be in the mix)
fatigue management program for ultra long range and multi sector flying
Lets have it
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yes mrpaxing
All your points are very valid and I agree whole heartedly ! BUT, in many ways the bid system is at the heart of the next EBA. If I loose ALL my bidding seniority status, then it's "Goodnight Sweetheart" as far as I am concerned and I feel the same goes for many LH CC . Qantas knows this and is playing this card to divide CC and hold back on any VR till next EBA is ratified. The effects will be negative right down to the junior crew, but many are blinded by the company roadshow spin . The most essential thing is to vote. Whether the results will have any relevance, depends on who and how many do vote. I am happy to be flexible with seniority, bidding and trip allocation, but depends how far Qantas wants to go. The other big issue as mrpaxing has covered, is fexibility with roster hours. I am sure many crew want more hours and others less. Interesting times ahead....
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Originally Posted by mrpaxing
why doesn't the faaa extend the polling to a whole range of issues
Originally Posted by radiation junkie
The most essential thing is to vote.
One of the most incomprehensible occurrences during EBA voting is the amount of crew that DON'T vote.
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I'm sure there will be many polls in the next few months, this is just the first to get the ball rolling.
Do you support the 'current' bid system?
Since this is an anonymous forum it is a simple question..yes or no
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back on track, thanks
what if any limitations would any of you agree on the current bid system?
Let me think out loud. if you limit trips (eg. 3 Lax per roster , which would give senior people options to bid for 3 nrt or similar), would that flow down to the junior ranks?
would live open time trading be more beneficial to junior f/a's? i would suggest a live open time trading platform where 15% of all trips (short,medium,long trips) get fed into over the roster period. this surely would stimulate trip swaps and may get a reasonable balance?
incoming
Let me think out loud. if you limit trips (eg. 3 Lax per roster , which would give senior people options to bid for 3 nrt or similar), would that flow down to the junior ranks?
would live open time trading be more beneficial to junior f/a's? i would suggest a live open time trading platform where 15% of all trips (short,medium,long trips) get fed into over the roster period. this surely would stimulate trip swaps and may get a reasonable balance?
incoming
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Sounds Reasonable But....
The Company wont implement or change anything unless there is a significant cost benefit to them.
What you propoe has merit.
It may reduce the number of lowlines generated but that may not be enough.
What you propoe has merit.
It may reduce the number of lowlines generated but that may not be enough.
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DEFCON 4's right and the company will definitely want a trade off.They are not interested in whether or not crew are happy and get the trips they want.
The interesting part is that if the crew as a group are happy with their rosters then the level of sick leave will drop as a result.
The managers you negotiate with believe in a win/win scenario.That is a win for them and a win for the company.
The interesting part is that if the crew as a group are happy with their rosters then the level of sick leave will drop as a result.
The managers you negotiate with believe in a win/win scenario.That is a win for them and a win for the company.
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let me expand
the company already spend the money on the system. it just wants to "dictate"what goes into the system. if you have a flexible divisor ( as long as minimum rules aren't infringed), wouldn't that be a win / win for qf and crew? surely that would minmize sick leave. then again its all about power, isn't. 
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Small Part of the Equation
The Bid System is but one part of a much larger equation......
1.New Aircraft Types
2.Ultra Long Rang Flying
3.Maintenance of Ts and Cs
4.Crew levels on New Aircraft.
5.The Regional Flying agreement
6.Overtime and its maintenance
7.Home Transport
8.The slipping formula.
9.Fatigue
10.The offshore bases.
This EBA is a watershed...everything is up for grabs.
Everyone,regardless of seniority needs to think seriously about all of the above.
LG's stated intention...Our wages with the AKL Base conditions.
Which Means....WE RETAIN ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Again I say..where will you be in 5 or 10 years time.
More importantly ....where do you want to be?
Do you want to be in some bar in one of the three destinations left to LH agonizing over lost opportunities?
This is going to be the toughest negotiation we have ever had.
Who is going to blink first?
Seniority and the Bid System,while important, are a diversion.
Whether you are junior or senior will make no difference if you get a 30% reduction in your wages.
Dont lose sight of the wood for the trees
1.New Aircraft Types
2.Ultra Long Rang Flying
3.Maintenance of Ts and Cs
4.Crew levels on New Aircraft.
5.The Regional Flying agreement
6.Overtime and its maintenance
7.Home Transport
8.The slipping formula.
9.Fatigue
10.The offshore bases.
This EBA is a watershed...everything is up for grabs.
Everyone,regardless of seniority needs to think seriously about all of the above.
LG's stated intention...Our wages with the AKL Base conditions.
Which Means....WE RETAIN ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Again I say..where will you be in 5 or 10 years time.
More importantly ....where do you want to be?
Do you want to be in some bar in one of the three destinations left to LH agonizing over lost opportunities?
This is going to be the toughest negotiation we have ever had.
Who is going to blink first?
Seniority and the Bid System,while important, are a diversion.
Whether you are junior or senior will make no difference if you get a 30% reduction in your wages.
Dont lose sight of the wood for the trees
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thank you
defcon i do agree with you. everthing is on the table. even if you look at the aussie hotels. s/h have agreed to the ibis in bne and are moving in mel to some lower class hotel. just been through mel i understand lh is moving out of the hilton as well. as living expenses have gone throught the roof i certainly wont agree to any wage reduction. with GD pointing out he expects an 30% increase in profits this financial year, more then a few crumbs need to filter through!!!!!!!
the upcoming EBA is without doubt the biggest challenge MM, SR face, but lets not forget they have our full support
the upcoming EBA is without doubt the biggest challenge MM, SR face, but lets not forget they have our full support
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Bid System :Lack of Information
There has been no Bid System training for 10 years.
The last time a user manual was printed was in 1988.
A large number of crew still dont know how to bid.
No wonder people are disappointed with their rosters.
Two former work systems advisers offered to train crew for nothing.
The Company said no.
The Company doesnt want crew to know how to bid.
The individuals who were responsible for its introduction were gone within a year.
While they gained productivity by reducing standown time by 25%,the wages bill ballooned.
The last time a user manual was printed was in 1988.
A large number of crew still dont know how to bid.
No wonder people are disappointed with their rosters.
Two former work systems advisers offered to train crew for nothing.
The Company said no.
The Company doesnt want crew to know how to bid.
The individuals who were responsible for its introduction were gone within a year.
While they gained productivity by reducing standown time by 25%,the wages bill ballooned.