Merged: QF 777s and other rumours
Just digressing a bit, but the mention of the 767 airframes retiring got me thinking. As QF start retiring the 76 airframes, do they automatically place 76 Tech Crew onto the 787 or 777, which could be wildly out of seniority, or do these slots still go on seniority?? (Remembering that the 787 is a replacement aircraft for the 76).
It just seems a bit strange and an incredible waste of money if it went on seniority, thus meaning 2 crew having to be trained for new aircraft instead of just the one on the aircraft replacing theirs.
M
It just seems a bit strange and an incredible waste of money if it went on seniority, thus meaning 2 crew having to be trained for new aircraft instead of just the one on the aircraft replacing theirs.
M
Last edited by mmmbop; 14th Jun 2007 at 00:05.
mmmbop
Normally fleet numbers reduce over a period of time and crew members start bidding off the fleet. Management massage the movement within the 12 month training period by allocating priority positions on other fleets to crew members of fleets where there is an excess (no bypass involved when it's within the training period). There would normally be very few crew members who would be left in a position where they would have to be assigned to a lower type.
SkyScanner
QF won't be getting Triplers that are 1990's technology, therefore I doubt that we will be getting them next year (are your sources reliable?). Deliveries starting 2012 is my understanding and they will be the "Series 2" version with a lot of B787 technology included - longer range, lower fuel burn, lower seat/km costs, common flight deck, etc. The only way that QF would take early delivery of Triplers would be if they were short term leases with the aircraft being replaced by the "Series 2" when they are available.
Normally fleet numbers reduce over a period of time and crew members start bidding off the fleet. Management massage the movement within the 12 month training period by allocating priority positions on other fleets to crew members of fleets where there is an excess (no bypass involved when it's within the training period). There would normally be very few crew members who would be left in a position where they would have to be assigned to a lower type.
SkyScanner
QF won't be getting Triplers that are 1990's technology, therefore I doubt that we will be getting them next year (are your sources reliable?). Deliveries starting 2012 is my understanding and they will be the "Series 2" version with a lot of B787 technology included - longer range, lower fuel burn, lower seat/km costs, common flight deck, etc. The only way that QF would take early delivery of Triplers would be if they were short term leases with the aircraft being replaced by the "Series 2" when they are available.
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Bazzamundi said
As Jetstar are being the first to operate the 787, surely they are doing all the work to introduce and set up for it, thus easing the stretched resources of QF mainline.
As Jetstar are being the first to operate the 787, surely they are doing all the work to introduce and set up for it, thus easing the stretched resources of QF mainline.
Plus I have heard on the grape vine that CASA have marked Jet * Ints card and have been told there is no way this ADHOC operation will be allowed to introduce new technology/type to the OZ register.
Which brings it straight back to QF engineering...... which means the characters whom now manage engineering with no operational experience yet alone introduced a new type had better pull their finger out and get some people onboard whom can because no consultant agency can pull them thru this.. CLOWNs
FOG
Re the intro of the 787, The manager flight training said in the Flt op news letter a couple of months ago that QF flight training was happy yo be selected by JQ to train them on the 787
. The article almost made me vomit. Like there would have been any other organisation in the running. Also funny in that JQ selected a training organisation that don't even have that sort of aircraft. Bit like Virgin selecting QF flt training to run the jungle jet training program. So it would seem that QF will be doing all the training program leg work and then charging JQ. Reckon the price was right? Seems like a load of 
BS to me.
. The article almost made me vomit. Like there would have been any other organisation in the running. Also funny in that JQ selected a training organisation that don't even have that sort of aircraft. Bit like Virgin selecting QF flt training to run the jungle jet training program. So it would seem that QF will be doing all the training program leg work and then charging JQ. Reckon the price was right? Seems like a load of BS to me.
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Can we go back to the beginning? What will Qantas do with the 777-300ER? The 777-300 has been around for some years in the previous version, and Thai and Korean Airlines and Singapore Airlines have already operated the 773 from their home city to Australian ports. Qantas would not need the ER version to operate turnaround services to most parts of Asia. The 777-300 has a range of about 6000 miles according to the range charts on the Boeing site. I do not know if that includes all passengers and freight and 85% weather conditions.
The 777-300ER has a range of about 7300 miles according to the Boeing site. Will Qantas operate the 77W freely on services to Europe over the Himalayas. or does FANS mean that the Himalayas can be avoided?
So, does this leave routes to the USA as places where the 77W would go for Qantas?
The 777-300ER has a range of about 7300 miles according to the Boeing site. Will Qantas operate the 77W freely on services to Europe over the Himalayas. or does FANS mean that the Himalayas can be avoided?
So, does this leave routes to the USA as places where the 77W would go for Qantas?
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Originally Posted by alangirvan
What will Qantas do with the 777-300ER?
Plus, I'm not sure I'd label the -300ER/-200LR as "nineties technology" compared to the 787. The latter has, in regards to its FMS and cockpit layout, been 'dumbed down' to the 777s level so that it may be sold to airlines with multi-type crewing needs, a la A320/330/340.
It's true a 'Series 2' 777 would make sense in order to combat the A350-900/1000, although I suspect a 2012 debut may be a little ambitious.
Cheers
Magoo
SS
BA & CX already have fleets of Triplers with that era technology. QF is going through a major fleet replacement program and the theme that I have been hearing is that they are only considering the latest technology because of the price of fuel. When you look at SQ who can write off aircraft as fast as 3 years thus they turn them over reasonably quickly and it is not as important to wait for the most efficient. Qantas is required under Oz Govmt legislation writes the aircraft off over 12 years and generally holds onto them for 20-24 years, therefore they want to acquire aircraft that will not be too outdated when they eventually retire them.
BA & CX already have fleets of Triplers with that era technology. QF is going through a major fleet replacement program and the theme that I have been hearing is that they are only considering the latest technology because of the price of fuel. When you look at SQ who can write off aircraft as fast as 3 years thus they turn them over reasonably quickly and it is not as important to wait for the most efficient. Qantas is required under Oz Govmt legislation writes the aircraft off over 12 years and generally holds onto them for 20-24 years, therefore they want to acquire aircraft that will not be too outdated when they eventually retire them.
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777-bs
I have said it before and will again,the triple 7 rumor has been ressurected more times than jesus himself.qf couldnt possibly be smart enough/boeing 777 build slots are as rare as hens teeth since the 380 guppy has been delayed.the 787 will go direct to j* do not pass go.Peter Grieg stated at the roadshows,that the j* brand and a/c will aggressively be grown whilst only two new ports for mainline .
wait for two months for the next resurrection of the 777 rumor this is amendment 106a
wait for two months for the next resurrection of the 777 rumor this is amendment 106a
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Every thing revolves around 2012.
The expiry of the EBA, new aircraft types meaning the end of the Long Haul Award, provisions in WorkChoices for Operational Redundancies.
There is your pool of qualified pilots.
Sack 'em then offer 'em a new job on a shiny new jet.
Hell if you want the job you will have to do it for less than JetStar!
The future is bright, the future is the poor house!
However a certain Federal election result if it goes a certain way might just stuff up a few Oldmeadow plans.
We can only pray!
The expiry of the EBA, new aircraft types meaning the end of the Long Haul Award, provisions in WorkChoices for Operational Redundancies.
There is your pool of qualified pilots.
Sack 'em then offer 'em a new job on a shiny new jet.
Hell if you want the job you will have to do it for less than JetStar!
The future is bright, the future is the poor house!
However a certain Federal election result if it goes a certain way might just stuff up a few Oldmeadow plans.
We can only pray!
Blown Gasket
Geoff Dixon has already announced publicly along with alot of mining companies that he will want a exemption from any change in IR laws in the future. Don't think just as because Labour is in power that it will change things in aviation. Geoff claims that aviation is a "special case" and should be exempt from any changes in IR because they compete internationally etc.
To be fair to him, as mentioned above, other countries do have much more favourable work practices than Australia, however I am not sure that attacking IR is really the way of trying to balance it up.
The A380 debacle and the direction that the 787 is heading supports the old addage that you "Never buy the A model of anything"
Geoff Dixon has already announced publicly along with alot of mining companies that he will want a exemption from any change in IR laws in the future. Don't think just as because Labour is in power that it will change things in aviation. Geoff claims that aviation is a "special case" and should be exempt from any changes in IR because they compete internationally etc.
To be fair to him, as mentioned above, other countries do have much more favourable work practices than Australia, however I am not sure that attacking IR is really the way of trying to balance it up.
The A380 debacle and the direction that the 787 is heading supports the old addage that you "Never buy the A model of anything"
Nunc est bibendum
Thread Starter
Unconfirmed third hand rumour that 10-12 777s went to the board in the last couple of weeks to make up for the 787 delay. I suspect that if approved they'll be silver and orange rather than white and red. About a week course or so doing CCQ from 777 to 787.
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This is probably rumour no. 5634 about the Qantas Group getting 777s. But, wouldn't if be funny if the Qantas Group decided to allow a little bit of controlled competition against Qantas, and take rush delivery of three 777s in December, and then operate them against the V Australia services to US West Coast. Qantas already does let JQ compete on some domestic legs, and the CHC base for JQ was set up to get up Pacific Blue's nose.
If Qantas own brand flying does not lose sales to JQ services to US West Coast - they continue to fly full and continue with their long term contracts with corporations to fill the Business Class section, it would be worth it to give V Australia a hard life.
If Qantas own brand flying does not lose sales to JQ services to US West Coast - they continue to fly full and continue with their long term contracts with corporations to fill the Business Class section, it would be worth it to give V Australia a hard life.
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I see qantas have been using the 330 AKL-LAX the last few weeks. Is this a permanent fixture? If qantas can get their hands on any 777s they would be silly to refuse. They are a perfect machine for todays current market (long sectors and high fuel prices). Will be interesting to see what sort of compensation they recieve for the 787 delay. I know AirNZ could do with a few spare 777s at the moment.
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Nobody has bothered to tell us which version of 777s we are guessing about. If Boeing are offering them very quickly, are they somebody else' cancellations. If they are 777-300ERs, those are substantially larger than the 787-8s that JQ thought they were going to have. Would Boeing offer new build 777-200ERs, 10 years after the type entered service? 777-200ERs are Windows 95 planes.
777-300ERs are a bit big to fly around the region - Phuket, HCM, KL. Even for Qantas mainline, the ER is a bit of a waste to HKG and Tokyo, when the non ER 777-300 already could do those sectors (and Qantas could do an engine competition as well.) The 777-300ER seems like overdoing it for lower yield flights between Australia and Southern Europe.
777-300ERs are a bit big to fly around the region - Phuket, HCM, KL. Even for Qantas mainline, the ER is a bit of a waste to HKG and Tokyo, when the non ER 777-300 already could do those sectors (and Qantas could do an engine competition as well.) The 777-300ER seems like overdoing it for lower yield flights between Australia and Southern Europe.
I heard leased 330s. Which make a whole lot more sense, I think 777s this late in the game are a bit of a stretch...
No wonder boeing are VERY reluctant to even consider a 787-10 version and undermine this market.
Qf has always had the issue of not one particular variant of the Tripler filling enough roles well enough though. But at the right price the economics might add up. Buying just to compete with VB is a hollow argument. Most LA's are full- reducing capacity to the US is not a smart strategy.
