Merged: QF 777s and other rumours
alangirvan
Airlines only do this when they:
1. Can’t justify putting their own aircraft on the route, i.e. not enough business. Most of Europe from Australia with the exception of the UK would be leisure therefore low yield.
2. Don’t have enough aircraft to service the route or more correctly the aircraft can be better utilised on more profitable routes, i.e. the UK or US.
3. Don’t have enough crew to service the route. “Same as above”
Airlines only do this when they:
1. Can’t justify putting their own aircraft on the route, i.e. not enough business. Most of Europe from Australia with the exception of the UK would be leisure therefore low yield.
2. Don’t have enough aircraft to service the route or more correctly the aircraft can be better utilised on more profitable routes, i.e. the UK or US.
3. Don’t have enough crew to service the route. “Same as above”
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This is why QF has the joint operation to Paris, and why I think the best way for Qantas to carry traffic to Italy is by having a joint operation with an Italian carrier. Alitalia could fly from Rome to SIN and from Milan to Singapore. Milan would be a business city - Singapore Airlines started a service to Milan last year, and they are now using a bigger plane - 777-300ER replacing 777-200ER. The market is there if QF and AZ do not stand back and watch Singapore AL take it from them.
From trip reports on airliners.net, Alitalia is not too bad in Business Class. I think some of their 767s were flown by Australian crews.
From trip reports on airliners.net, Alitalia is not too bad in Business Class. I think some of their 767s were flown by Australian crews.
alangirvan
From an outsiders point of view it would appear QF is moving away from using Singapore as a hub to Europe and the UK. Hong Kong and Shanghai seem to be the flavour of the month. Apart from flying from the west coast, the shortest distance to the above from the east coast is via HK and to a lesser extent Shanghai. It is also worth pointing out that to code share, there must be two airlines in agreement. Maybe QF couldn’t come to an agreement with Alitalia. Maybe QF is shy to use Alitalia which over the last decade or so has had a workforce that aren’t afraid to strike at little notice. This is all hearsay of course.
From an outsiders point of view it would appear QF is moving away from using Singapore as a hub to Europe and the UK. Hong Kong and Shanghai seem to be the flavour of the month. Apart from flying from the west coast, the shortest distance to the above from the east coast is via HK and to a lesser extent Shanghai. It is also worth pointing out that to code share, there must be two airlines in agreement. Maybe QF couldn’t come to an agreement with Alitalia. Maybe QF is shy to use Alitalia which over the last decade or so has had a workforce that aren’t afraid to strike at little notice. This is all hearsay of course.
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Massive business risks to AZ - they've been on the brink of collapse for years and EU authorities are investigating whether they've been propped up by illegal state aid.
Barge pole/yours, etc.
I seem to recall that, when Jetstar Int'l was launched, there were loud noises about the lower-cost structure being spot-on for re-opening non-operational 'Qantas group' routes that mainline couldn't run at a profit and that this would eventually include multi-sector routes to Europe. Interesting that the growth talk seems to centre on mainline again...
Barge pole/yours, etc.
I seem to recall that, when Jetstar Int'l was launched, there were loud noises about the lower-cost structure being spot-on for re-opening non-operational 'Qantas group' routes that mainline couldn't run at a profit and that this would eventually include multi-sector routes to Europe. Interesting that the growth talk seems to centre on mainline again...
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I find it hard to believe that it was not economical for QF to go to Rome. I saw the loads on those flights and it was pretty much full of pax and freight every time. For those that tried to use staff travel on it, they will also testify that it was difficult to get on most of the year.
If you can't make money with an aircraft full of pax and freight, perhaps you should get out of the airline game. I think that most of the routes they pulled out of were economical, but there is more money to be made on other routes. If that is the case just say so, and don't continually feed everyone BS.
If you can't make money with an aircraft full of pax and freight, perhaps you should get out of the airline game. I think that most of the routes they pulled out of were economical, but there is more money to be made on other routes. If that is the case just say so, and don't continually feed everyone BS.
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rammel
exactly correct, short and to the point.
Sadly
propogated by people at the top... who are still there, and apparently will remain, after the pantomime that was the APA takeover.
The airline certainly should remain - certain dracula's could (arguably) be moved on and should be.. "liabilities on the balance sheet" ..."loss of faith from inversors" ... "uncertainty about priority of loyalties" etc etc, the options just keep flowing and flowing!
As a total sidebar - when's the next QF shareholders meeting, one can only hope it will be as volatile as it deserves to be.
exactly correct, short and to the point.
Sadly
propogated by people at the top... who are still there, and apparently will remain, after the pantomime that was the APA takeover.The airline certainly should remain - certain dracula's could (arguably) be moved on and should be.. "liabilities on the balance sheet" ..."loss of faith from inversors" ... "uncertainty about priority of loyalties" etc etc, the options just keep flowing and flowing!
As a total sidebar - when's the next QF shareholders meeting, one can only hope it will be as volatile as it deserves to be.
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alangirvan
If Australian airline accountants had their way Australian airlines (note small "a") would fly just one leg out of Australia and code share the rest of the journey!!!!
This is why QF has the joint operation to Paris, and why I think the best way for Qantas to carry traffic to Italy is by having a joint operation with an Italian carrier. Alitalia could fly from Rome to SIN and from Milan to Singapore. Milan would be a business city - Singapore Airlines started a service to Milan last year, and they are now using a bigger plane - 777-300ER replacing 777-200ER. The market is there if QF and AZ do not stand back and watch Singapore AL take it from them.
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Rumour from way up north
Source :-The feed back meeting/road show with that prique CFO Greg.
777 are coming won't say when but confirmed delivery.
Reading between the lines
Might be sooner than you think as deal is being brokered.
How many aircraft types will we have ? Could be up to 8 different types come October next year.
How do we support it? I see some O/T coming on. (Engineering)
FOG
Source :-The feed back meeting/road show with that prique CFO Greg.
777 are coming won't say when but confirmed delivery.
Reading between the lines
Might be sooner than you think as deal is being brokered.
How many aircraft types will we have ? Could be up to 8 different types come October next year.
How do we support it? I see some O/T coming on. (Engineering)
FOG
Last edited by Bolty McBolt; 13th Jun 2007 at 06:41.
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Bolty,
I don't know how much more O/T there is left available!
I'm not aware of any guys on blank lines that have been doing less than divisor since about the middle of last year and there are quite a few of them who are always up the 100 in 30 problem or 900 in 365. You just need to look at open time and see how many lines were being broken due to crewing problems in the last few bid periods.
Good news for all on the 'hold file' I'd think!
Twin.
I don't know how much more O/T there is left available!
I'm not aware of any guys on blank lines that have been doing less than divisor since about the middle of last year and there are quite a few of them who are always up the 100 in 30 problem or 900 in 365. You just need to look at open time and see how many lines were being broken due to crewing problems in the last few bid periods.
Good news for all on the 'hold file' I'd think!
Twin.
Bolty,
I don't know how much more O/T there is left available!
I'm not aware of any guys on blank lines
I don't know how much more O/T there is left available!
I'm not aware of any guys on blank lines
Bring on the 777, far too late and....
FOG
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You don't know anyone on the Classic or the A330?
This is not unusual ...
I know QF pilots who've flown less than 200 hours so far this calendar year due to QF`s great manpower planning. Coincidentally they've been obliged to use (waste?) a truckload of annual AND Long Service leave to help solve the situation. In all this, QF has;
- pocketed the delayed-A380 compo from EADS,
- trained for 14 jets then gave four away and still kept training,
- implemented (quite rightly) the Carmen rostering system for enhanced efficiency, and
- avoided using the temporary surplus manpower to supplement other parts of the group.
Surely it can`t have been a crisis-managed and reactive "best effort" in dream market circumstances can it? Unfortunately, the alternative conclusion is just depressing...
They say they'll all be busy next year though!!
- pocketed the delayed-A380 compo from EADS,
- trained for 14 jets then gave four away and still kept training,
- implemented (quite rightly) the Carmen rostering system for enhanced efficiency, and
- avoided using the temporary surplus manpower to supplement other parts of the group.
Surely it can`t have been a crisis-managed and reactive "best effort" in dream market circumstances can it? Unfortunately, the alternative conclusion is just depressing...
They say they'll all be busy next year though!!
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Any info on how many 777's to expect? Speculation on where they might go (Europe or Asia being possible), especially since DJ will be using them in the not too distant future to the US?
Given that NZ use them to LA, SFO and YVR from AKL, the options could be endless.
Curious times ahead...
Given that NZ use them to LA, SFO and YVR from AKL, the options could be endless.
Curious times ahead...
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Anyone running a book on the chances of an announcement at Paris (which kicks off next week)?
Or (and this is pure speculation) an order involving the 747-8 (given Boeing are saying it will be able to do YSSY-KJFK direct)?
Alternatively, QF might be joining Emirates in pushing for Boeing to develop a 787-10... Boeing have been pushing back on that as it would eat into the(now fully-amortised) 777 programme.
That said, any 787-10 would be several years off (even if work started now) so 777 would be available rather sooner.
Mr Seatback 2,
NZ use their triplers on the London-via-HK run, also.
One suspects that the rat will be wanting to get as long a set of legs as they can on any 777s they acquire; this has been the theme of any comments they've made on the subject in recent years (eg. going back to '02) and when the 787 order was placed last year (or was it '05?) GoD explicitly said that 777s were not ordered at the time as the "commercial guys" couldn't get the profitability sums to work in terms of yield/load mix and service reliability year-round, both ways.
Maybe a couple of years of improvements in aerodynamics, engine technology and weight-saving measures, plus some in-service experience of the various E/LR 777 variants gleaned from other carriers, has enabled them to update the spreadsheets.
ATEOTD if you can make it go to London from Sydney then you can use it to anywhere in between. It doesn't really matter where it'll go - it either works in the fleet, or it doesn't. The 330s weren't 'supposed' to other than domestic but guess what they do now?
These things (airframes) have an in-service life of usually 10-25 years so the use plans made when first acquired are unlikely to stay the same throughout such a time-frame. You don't see any -300s at EGLL these days, even though that's what they were bought to do.
Or (and this is pure speculation) an order involving the 747-8 (given Boeing are saying it will be able to do YSSY-KJFK direct)?
Alternatively, QF might be joining Emirates in pushing for Boeing to develop a 787-10... Boeing have been pushing back on that as it would eat into the(now fully-amortised) 777 programme.
That said, any 787-10 would be several years off (even if work started now) so 777 would be available rather sooner.
Mr Seatback 2,
NZ use their triplers on the London-via-HK run, also.
One suspects that the rat will be wanting to get as long a set of legs as they can on any 777s they acquire; this has been the theme of any comments they've made on the subject in recent years (eg. going back to '02) and when the 787 order was placed last year (or was it '05?) GoD explicitly said that 777s were not ordered at the time as the "commercial guys" couldn't get the profitability sums to work in terms of yield/load mix and service reliability year-round, both ways.
Maybe a couple of years of improvements in aerodynamics, engine technology and weight-saving measures, plus some in-service experience of the various E/LR 777 variants gleaned from other carriers, has enabled them to update the spreadsheets.
ATEOTD if you can make it go to London from Sydney then you can use it to anywhere in between. It doesn't really matter where it'll go - it either works in the fleet, or it doesn't. The 330s weren't 'supposed' to other than domestic but guess what they do now?
These things (airframes) have an in-service life of usually 10-25 years so the use plans made when first acquired are unlikely to stay the same throughout such a time-frame. You don't see any -300s at EGLL these days, even though that's what they were bought to do.
Last edited by Taildragger67; 13th Jun 2007 at 11:19.
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Originally Posted by Skyscanner
Updated figure is now 10-20 arriving in Sept 08
It's my understanding that the impending 380/787 arrivals and the accompanying drain on resources is what has really prevented QF from ordering the Triple.
Magoo
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As Jetstar are being the first to operate the 787, surely they are doing all the work to introduce and set up for it, thus easing the stretched resources of QF mainline. QF mainline should only be worrying about the 380, which they have had years to work and plan for. Should all be smooth sailing in theory.