Qantas 'worst international airline'
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To say that having a negative QF experience makes one short sighted is a non sequitur.
'Choice' asked subscribers to rate airlines against a range of criteria, including in flight service and value for money. From 4000 responses, QF was ranked seventh out of seven. Are you seriously suggesting that 4000 'Choice' subscribers are unthinking?
Some of the usual suspects have been quick to stick the boot into management. While management may well play a part in this rather sad state of affairs, from the tenor of posts here, cabin staff are not without fault either.
I'm self employed. If I don't deliver customer service, I don't get repeat business. When I travel, I want value for money. I make around six trips per year to Western Europe and North America for work purposes.
Look at Flight Centre fares for a Business Class flight from SYD-LHR in a fortnight's time at http://www.flightcentre.com.au/GNE?f...ss=J&x=41&y=10
The quoted QF fares are at the upper end of the list, and more expensive than some of the more highly ranked airlines in the 'Choice' survey.
Why should I spend around $10K of my hard earned cash on QF when there's a significant risk I'll encounter poor service, AND the more highly ranked competition is cheaper?
'Choice' asked subscribers to rate airlines against a range of criteria, including in flight service and value for money. From 4000 responses, QF was ranked seventh out of seven. Are you seriously suggesting that 4000 'Choice' subscribers are unthinking?
Some of the usual suspects have been quick to stick the boot into management. While management may well play a part in this rather sad state of affairs, from the tenor of posts here, cabin staff are not without fault either.
I'm self employed. If I don't deliver customer service, I don't get repeat business. When I travel, I want value for money. I make around six trips per year to Western Europe and North America for work purposes.
Look at Flight Centre fares for a Business Class flight from SYD-LHR in a fortnight's time at http://www.flightcentre.com.au/GNE?f...ss=J&x=41&y=10
The quoted QF fares are at the upper end of the list, and more expensive than some of the more highly ranked airlines in the 'Choice' survey.
Why should I spend around $10K of my hard earned cash on QF when there's a significant risk I'll encounter poor service, AND the more highly ranked competition is cheaper?
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Define Poor Service
When you purchase a ticket what are you actually paying For?
How are your expectations determined?
You cannot get personalized service on any QF service nor should you expect it.
There is 1 CC member per 40 customers on QF international services.
Travel today is less expensive in real terms than it has ever been.
Travelling on a modern jetliner is a horrible experience.
Poor oxygen flow
Crap food
Uncomfortable seating unless you shorter than 175cm and taller than 140 cms.
8 toilets in economy for over 300 customers.
Spending innumerable hours next to someone you dont know(or possibly even like)
It has been said over and over again it is transport...nothing more nothing less.
How I feel when I reach my destination is down to me.
I have no other expectation other than to arrive safely and on time.
The rest is just window dressing and I am not interested in it.
A book
An iPod
A bottle of water
Two pens
A very small back pack
A tooth brush
Eye Drops
Moisturizer
A spare T shirt
These are the things I need
I dont interact with the crew...I dont need to ...I dont want to.
The purpose of travel is reaching a destination
How are your expectations determined?
You cannot get personalized service on any QF service nor should you expect it.
There is 1 CC member per 40 customers on QF international services.
Travel today is less expensive in real terms than it has ever been.
Travelling on a modern jetliner is a horrible experience.
Poor oxygen flow
Crap food
Uncomfortable seating unless you shorter than 175cm and taller than 140 cms.
8 toilets in economy for over 300 customers.
Spending innumerable hours next to someone you dont know(or possibly even like)
It has been said over and over again it is transport...nothing more nothing less.
How I feel when I reach my destination is down to me.
I have no other expectation other than to arrive safely and on time.
The rest is just window dressing and I am not interested in it.
A book
An iPod
A bottle of water
Two pens
A very small back pack
A tooth brush
Eye Drops
Moisturizer
A spare T shirt
These are the things I need
I dont interact with the crew...I dont need to ...I dont want to.
The purpose of travel is reaching a destination
Last edited by packrat; 3rd Jun 2007 at 08:20.
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I'd have to agree with that Willi B. Choice is non-profit and non-politically aligned. Nor do they take advertising income. It is pretty well respected for consumer surveys etc (that's why it exists in the first place). 4000 people is a decent sample for a survey. The only reasonable conclusion is that people really don't like the service they're paying for, and that there are significant problems.
This of course is not exactly earth-shattering news to anyone such as myself who works for QF. Dixon has been very lucky - in many political circles he (and QF) is a protected species. But as more competition slowly comes ashore, he'll choose to ignore surveys like this at his peril.
He's certainly gutting the experience and morale of the staff, and that's bound to reflect in the service and is indeed a Management problem. The brand new part-timer CC who had to ask the tech crew how to arm the front door recently is a case in point. On the flip side, there is no shortage of "attitude" among some crew too, including quite a few younger ones bringing with them the "you can't tell me what to do" philosophy.
This of course is not exactly earth-shattering news to anyone such as myself who works for QF. Dixon has been very lucky - in many political circles he (and QF) is a protected species. But as more competition slowly comes ashore, he'll choose to ignore surveys like this at his peril.
He's certainly gutting the experience and morale of the staff, and that's bound to reflect in the service and is indeed a Management problem. The brand new part-timer CC who had to ask the tech crew how to arm the front door recently is a case in point. On the flip side, there is no shortage of "attitude" among some crew too, including quite a few younger ones bringing with them the "you can't tell me what to do" philosophy.
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Cabin Crew
Do not design aircraft
Do not design seats
Do not determine catering
Are not engineers
Are not mechanics
Do not decide which IFE system an airline purchases
Are not responsible for fog
Are not clairvoyant
Do have names
Do have families
Are human beings
Do not like being abused
Are generally ignored by management
Do not like being poked prodded or grabbed
Do not respond to whistles grunts or clicking fingers.
Are not responsible for the passenger next to you throwing up on you
Are accountable for everyhing and responsible for none of it
Do not design service procedures
They ARE responsible for passenger safety
They ARE responsible for maintaining toilets
They ARE trained in CPR
They HAVE delivered babies
They HAVE saved lives.
Live in a constant state of fatigue
Are away for births deaths and marriages
Are away for Christmas Easter and every public holiday and weekend
Are away for anniversaries and birthdays.
Do become indifferent to the unbelievably high expectations of the travelling public because their employer does not provide the resources with which they can meet these expectations.
Do not design seats
Do not determine catering
Are not engineers
Are not mechanics
Do not decide which IFE system an airline purchases
Are not responsible for fog
Are not clairvoyant
Do have names
Do have families
Are human beings
Do not like being abused
Are generally ignored by management
Do not like being poked prodded or grabbed
Do not respond to whistles grunts or clicking fingers.
Are not responsible for the passenger next to you throwing up on you
Are accountable for everyhing and responsible for none of it
Do not design service procedures
They ARE responsible for passenger safety
They ARE responsible for maintaining toilets
They ARE trained in CPR
They HAVE delivered babies
They HAVE saved lives.
Live in a constant state of fatigue
Are away for births deaths and marriages
Are away for Christmas Easter and every public holiday and weekend
Are away for anniversaries and birthdays.
Do become indifferent to the unbelievably high expectations of the travelling public because their employer does not provide the resources with which they can meet these expectations.
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The problem here is that the choice magazine survey polarizes the aviation community and gives a chance to those who love nothing more than taking a cheap shot at QF.
This is nothing more than the Holden/Ford rivalry or Lib/Lab supporters situations.
This is nothing more than the Holden/Ford rivalry or Lib/Lab supporters situations.
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Reiteration
Does any body read previous posts in a thread?
Air Doris simply reiterated what was said not 3 posts before albeit with slight embellishments.
"Cabin Crew are held accountable for everything and are responsible for none of it"
.......from a previous is it in a nutshell.
Air Doris simply reiterated what was said not 3 posts before albeit with slight embellishments.
"Cabin Crew are held accountable for everything and are responsible for none of it"
.......from a previous is it in a nutshell.
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As a customer service representitive of any company, it's generally your job to take onboard customer complaints or concerns, fix them and feed them back to the company.
Aside from our primary safety related duties, we are also there to channel this feed back, good and bad to the company. Of course it's not our fault most of the time, however we are just a point of communicatiuon between the passenger and the company.
A good portion of customer service work, is sorting out customer complaints, problems, stuff ups and so on.
It's how you handle these and deal with them that matters. And I think that may be what the results in some of these surveys are about when relating to cabin crew.
I agree, it is extremely trying on some flights and very repetitive having to explain that we don't have certain service items available. For the simple reason of cost cutting. It does make our job challenging, especially when you apprently fly for a full service airline!
Aside from our primary safety related duties, we are also there to channel this feed back, good and bad to the company. Of course it's not our fault most of the time, however we are just a point of communicatiuon between the passenger and the company.
A good portion of customer service work, is sorting out customer complaints, problems, stuff ups and so on.
It's how you handle these and deal with them that matters. And I think that may be what the results in some of these surveys are about when relating to cabin crew.
I agree, it is extremely trying on some flights and very repetitive having to explain that we don't have certain service items available. For the simple reason of cost cutting. It does make our job challenging, especially when you apprently fly for a full service airline!
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raver
everything you said is true but what about when you go into the office after after a trip and let them know about a problem you had and they treat you like you have some kind of disease.
One problem is stuff like ife and the other is lack of back up .mix that with lower crew numbers than our competition and i reckon you get surveys like this.
everything you said is true but what about when you go into the office after after a trip and let them know about a problem you had and they treat you like you have some kind of disease.
One problem is stuff like ife and the other is lack of back up .mix that with lower crew numbers than our competition and i reckon you get surveys like this.
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Why does QF crew need excuses??
DEFCON 4,
Everything in your post is true of every member of the cabin crew staffing CX and SQ (among others that I would rather fly!) flights.
Why is it that they ARE able to remain professional and provide a QUALITY experience??
As SLF we
Are not responsible for cabin crew being generally ignored by management
Do not like doing poking prodding or grabbing
Do not want to resort to whistles grunts or clicking fingers for service.
Are not esponsible for the passenger next to me throwing up on us either
Care that you are accountable for everything and responsible for none of it
Want realistic cabin service procedures
Know that you ARE responsible for passenger safety
Hope you actually DO maintain the toilets
Are pleased you ARE trained in CPR
Admire that you HAVE delivered babies
Are pleased you HAVE saved lives.
Live in a constant state of being cramped, starved, dehydrated and ignored
Travelling to a birth death or marriage
Are with family for Christmas Easter and every public holiday and weekend (Heaven help us!!
)
Are away for anniversaries and birthdays.
Do become indifferent to the unbelievably low reality of the travelling QF because your management does not provide you the resources with which you can meet these expectations.
Everything in your post is true of every member of the cabin crew staffing CX and SQ (among others that I would rather fly!) flights.
Why is it that they ARE able to remain professional and provide a QUALITY experience??
As SLF we
Are not responsible for cabin crew being generally ignored by management
Do not like doing poking prodding or grabbing
Do not want to resort to whistles grunts or clicking fingers for service.
Are not esponsible for the passenger next to me throwing up on us either
Care that you are accountable for everything and responsible for none of it
Want realistic cabin service procedures
Know that you ARE responsible for passenger safety
Hope you actually DO maintain the toilets
Are pleased you ARE trained in CPR
Admire that you HAVE delivered babies
Are pleased you HAVE saved lives.
Live in a constant state of being cramped, starved, dehydrated and ignored
Travelling to a birth death or marriage
Are with family for Christmas Easter and every public holiday and weekend (Heaven help us!!
)Are away for anniversaries and birthdays.
Do become indifferent to the unbelievably low reality of the travelling QF because your management does not provide you the resources with which you can meet these expectations.
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Not Excuses
.....just Reality
QF Crew do NOT have the resources that CX and SQ have..namely manpower'
The management of both these airlines is superior to that of QF
Your post only validates the position of QF CC...namely...you dont give a rats rissole about their plight...nor do you offer a remedy.....apart from employing a lot of gorgeous Asian girls.
NB..your post is selective .You ignore CC are human like eveybody else..we understand your plight.... we spend more time pax than anyone else in the airline industry....the survey that started all this was of 4000 people...QF carries 32million a year......do you really think its indicative?
I get to be both a passenger and a Cabin Crew member.
Walk a mile in my moccasins before you criticize.
QF Crew do NOT have the resources that CX and SQ have..namely manpower'
The management of both these airlines is superior to that of QF
Your post only validates the position of QF CC...namely...you dont give a rats rissole about their plight...nor do you offer a remedy.....apart from employing a lot of gorgeous Asian girls.
NB..your post is selective .You ignore CC are human like eveybody else..we understand your plight.... we spend more time pax than anyone else in the airline industry....the survey that started all this was of 4000 people...QF carries 32million a year......do you really think its indicative?
I get to be both a passenger and a Cabin Crew member.
Walk a mile in my moccasins before you criticize.
Last edited by DEFCON4; 9th Jun 2007 at 02:25.
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Emotional Disconnection
A recent piece in th Brisbane Times suggests that Australians no longer have an emotional attachment to QF.
Considering that a large number of CC are no longer Australian is anyone really surprised
Ask a Thai flight attendant about the rugby
Ask a LHR crew member how Manly or the west coast Eagles did over the weekend
You cant have the Australian Experience without Australians
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news...089237549.html
Considering that a large number of CC are no longer Australian is anyone really surprised
Ask a Thai flight attendant about the rugby
Ask a LHR crew member how Manly or the west coast Eagles did over the weekend
You cant have the Australian Experience without Australians
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news...089237549.html
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Not really. The main thrust of the article, like the SMH and Choice pieces, is that Australians have high expectations of Qantas, which "survey says" aren't being met.
Why is this so?
In the 2006 Skytrax Airline of the Year Award http://www.worldairlineawards.com/Aw...eYear-2006.htm in a survey of 13.61 million respondents, Qantas manages a respectable second place.
Yet in the same awards, for cabin staff, Qantas didn't make the top five - http://www.worldairlineawards.com/Aw...CabinStaff.htm
Why is this so?
In the 2006 Skytrax Airline of the Year Award http://www.worldairlineawards.com/Aw...eYear-2006.htm in a survey of 13.61 million respondents, Qantas manages a respectable second place.
Yet in the same awards, for cabin staff, Qantas didn't make the top five - http://www.worldairlineawards.com/Aw...CabinStaff.htm
Commenting on the results, Skytrax said ..... "cabin staff play a pivotal role, not just in ensuring the safety and well-being of passengers, but also projecting the whole corporate image that an airline is seeking to achieve. It is often the standard of cabin staff service that will make or break a travel experience for many customers, and our Survey is structured in such a way as to enable differentiation between what we regard as 'hard' and 'soft' service elements. The hard service factors are those that relate mostly to the designated service duties - be it safety, catering etc. Soft service is something that can be said to reflect the individual character of either an airline or the country it represents - that special smile, genuine service interest, staff friendliness, staff enthusiasm etc. These are areas where some airlines clearly excel, and achieve great customer loyalty through their ability to deliver this in a consistent manner.
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Why is This So?
Why is service so bad?
Is it lack of moral?
Poor quality hard product?
Aging aircraft?
As far as CC are concerned Dixon considers them a necessary evil and tells them so ...often
Great way to treat your frontline staff.
Pilots, Engineers and ground staff are all unhappy.
Everyone stays in the hope that things will improve.
With Dixon in charge service will never improve.
"Never have so few delivered so little to so many"
Wake Up Geoff!!
Is it lack of moral?
Poor quality hard product?
Aging aircraft?
As far as CC are concerned Dixon considers them a necessary evil and tells them so ...often
Great way to treat your frontline staff.
Pilots, Engineers and ground staff are all unhappy.
Everyone stays in the hope that things will improve.
With Dixon in charge service will never improve.
"Never have so few delivered so little to so many"
Wake Up Geoff!!
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The attitude and behaviour of any boss permeates through his business or area of influence.You only have to look at Mr Personality-Charisma By-Pass and his attitude to employees and you can see the effect.
Zeus Ex Machina said:
What makes you say the service is bad? The Choice survey was not saying this, nor was either of the two surveys pointed to by Willi B.
Why is service so bad?
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Aircraft
As far as 'Choice' is concerned, not so.
'Choice', June 2007, p.15
The quality of service is particularly important on long international flights, and QANTAS was rated lowest for this