Qantas 'worst international airline'
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Prunezeuss,
you are way off the mark.
I'd would guess that Qantas would have a lesser percentage of Australian based cabin crew that are Australians than SIA has of Singaporeans.
you are way off the mark.
I'd would guess that Qantas would have a lesser percentage of Australian based cabin crew that are Australians than SIA has of Singaporeans.
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Quote from Prunejuice……… “Stating you are EX CC on any Resume anywhere means squat”
What are your qualifications to back that statment up..?
Well I can’t talk for other countries and their airlines but with QF the selection rate at least in the old days was in fact an advantage to have in your resume.
When I started there was just over 300 vacancies and more than 10,000 applications.
Another supercilious quote from prunejuice.. “Who is an indigenous Singaporean?
Answer me that and we may be able to have a discussion”
I’m not concerned that you MAY want to have a discussion or not but…
As far as SIA is concerned most of the crew that I have met are in fact Singaporean.Now if you want to be pedantic I would say that means someone who is either Singaporean by birth or a Singaporean citizen.
That does not mean they have to be of Chinese ancestory but of any of the ethnic groups that make up Singapore.As most of us know Singapore is a melting pot of a number of different races and cultures.
Max1....If you were in an office and giving a talk and someone was mimicking you and disrupting your briefing I imagine you would not be all that happy even if they were going on holidays the next day.
Personally I'm happy you do not want to fly Qantas because in your own words you were/are a goose
What are your qualifications to back that statment up..?
Well I can’t talk for other countries and their airlines but with QF the selection rate at least in the old days was in fact an advantage to have in your resume.
When I started there was just over 300 vacancies and more than 10,000 applications.
Another supercilious quote from prunejuice.. “Who is an indigenous Singaporean?
Answer me that and we may be able to have a discussion”
I’m not concerned that you MAY want to have a discussion or not but…
As far as SIA is concerned most of the crew that I have met are in fact Singaporean.Now if you want to be pedantic I would say that means someone who is either Singaporean by birth or a Singaporean citizen.
That does not mean they have to be of Chinese ancestory but of any of the ethnic groups that make up Singapore.As most of us know Singapore is a melting pot of a number of different races and cultures.
Max1....If you were in an office and giving a talk and someone was mimicking you and disrupting your briefing I imagine you would not be all that happy even if they were going on holidays the next day.
Personally I'm happy you do not want to fly Qantas because in your own words you were/are a goose
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Seem's the QF staff are again taking a battering for the incompetance of the accountants now running QF. I agree there are problems with crew (and everyone else for that matter) moral - but this wouldn't be (in part) attributable to the tools that they are given?
Most of the engineers that have anything to do with the Rockwell collins IFE system Know its a dog. Never worked that well on BA and low and behold QF ends up with it. Would the descision to buy it have anything to do with the then BA accountants sitting in QF's board room at the time? Come to think of it where they also on the board when Qf also got lumbered with the ex BA Rolls Royce powered 767's - another winner with no compatable cabin parts!
QF is absolutely littered with incompetance in management determined to reach their KPI's for their bonus's at the expense of common sense and good service/product delivery.
I fear that things will not changed much until the staff moral improves - but how is this going to be achieved by the current management?
Most of the engineers that have anything to do with the Rockwell collins IFE system Know its a dog. Never worked that well on BA and low and behold QF ends up with it. Would the descision to buy it have anything to do with the then BA accountants sitting in QF's board room at the time? Come to think of it where they also on the board when Qf also got lumbered with the ex BA Rolls Royce powered 767's - another winner with no compatable cabin parts!
QF is absolutely littered with incompetance in management determined to reach their KPI's for their bonus's at the expense of common sense and good service/product delivery.
I fear that things will not changed much until the staff moral improves - but how is this going to be achieved by the current management?
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There was a blog on smh.com.au abou this and almost everyone bollocked QANTAS and agreed with the results of the survey. Personally I can't understand what everyone's problem is. I have flown QF economy for years, and whilst I agree that the service maybe wasn't the best in the past, I noticed a HUGE difference in the service towards the end of 2005. I have flown SYD-LHR on more occasions than I care to remember, and the only horrible flights that I have had were with BA. Recently I flew to Europe on CX, and whilst they were okay, I think I actually prefer QF. Agree with one of the other posters here who said the punters are voting with their feet. QF always seems to be full, none of the four CX sectors were full.
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Full or Not Full
So we have poster who has admitted to being a goose.
Complaints because an aircraft is full.
Going to a J/C galley on QF to get a drink of water.
In J/C QF provide you with a bottle of water...there is also a self service bar.
Have you ever heard of a call button?
Some of the crew in the J/C galley may be Y/C crew having a meal break.
All these complaints(?)are both petty and precious.
Pretty indicative of where contemporary society is.
.......and YesTam needs to impress us with his cohorts in the local pub.....give me a break.These would be people who are in the twilight of their lives and are pretty much bored with everything including the trophy wife.They spend their dwindling time carping about perceived (minor)transgressions by some minion somewhere.
Statistcs prove that the minions live longer than these overindulged/self indulged vermin.
Air..BUS...get it? BUS
Complaints because an aircraft is full.
Going to a J/C galley on QF to get a drink of water.
In J/C QF provide you with a bottle of water...there is also a self service bar.
Have you ever heard of a call button?
Some of the crew in the J/C galley may be Y/C crew having a meal break.
All these complaints(?)are both petty and precious.
Pretty indicative of where contemporary society is.
.......and YesTam needs to impress us with his cohorts in the local pub.....give me a break.These would be people who are in the twilight of their lives and are pretty much bored with everything including the trophy wife.They spend their dwindling time carping about perceived (minor)transgressions by some minion somewhere.
Statistcs prove that the minions live longer than these overindulged/self indulged vermin.
Air..BUS...get it? BUS
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Slightly O/T but interesting.A report in todays SMH reveals how Etihad deal with unruly passengers.It is alleged that three Aussie funsters enroute Sydney-Dubai on 26/4 decided to liven up their fellow first class passengers as well as the cabin crew.These lads are said to have indulged in a bit of harmless sexual harrassment that included a certain amount of groping,demanding sex for money and finally dropping their daks and underpants.Two of these fun loving travellers are presently languishing in al-Wathba prison outside Abu Dhabi enjoying a diet of fermented camel meat and are said to be facing up to 15 years in a desert prison where punishment might include stonings and lashings and temperatures exceed 50C.Of course all allegations are denied and it is said that no alcohol was involved but they are nevertheless presently sweating it out in al-Wathba.The moral of the story is, next time fly QANTAS,the cabin crew are so much more accomodating when it comes to satisfying passengers urges.Just ask Ralph.
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I think the best - in fact, only - way forward for QF is to eliminate any/all performance bonuses for all management staff.
This is the way I see it...
Frontline staff by in large receive a one-off bonus for each year where the airline makes profit targets. Even then, it's only $1000 pre-tax, not multi-thousands of dollars + shares + other incentives.
What pisses off many of the staff that I've come into contact with is seeing cut-backs made in crewing levels, product and amenities (just to name a few), to then receive feedback such as this (both in reality, and in surveys such as these), when the airline is turning over hundreds of millions of dollars in profit each year, and passing on ridiculous levels of bonuses to the people responsible in reducing passenger comfort and service levels on board the aircraft.
True, Australian travellers prior to the AN collapse were spoiled in comparison to those in other parts of the world. I remember the days of a 40 minute MEL-LST flight, hot meal with a cold option, offered bar, tea & coffee and clear in. So the adjustment to the LCC way of life has been a serious adjustment for many. The added adjustment of aligning markets with carriers whose cost creates a better margin has also been difficult - and not just for the flying public.
Qantas used to be a pioneer in many areas of flying. As I recall, they were one of the first (if not, THE FIRST) airline to introduce the concept of a Business Class back in the 70's. In comparison, now it simply reacts to its competitors only when forced (Skybed as one example), because 'god forbid we have to spend money'. The aversion with which QF spends money in some areas, and throws good money after bad in others, is alarming.
Whilst QF management probably believe they are doing the right thing, and deserve these bonuses, they're not performing with the love of Qantas in mind...rather, it's one eye on the bonus and 'what other board can I join while I'm here?'. Retaining management who put shareholders first, everyone else second, pulls QF into a short term vacuum.
The inability (or reluctance) of any long term planning has seriously impacted QF's ability to perform efficiently over the years. These include:
1) The A330-200 debacle...they ordered the original 4 x A332's with no consideration of how installing Skybed might affect the floor weight. By the time this costly error was discovered, the horses responsible had well and truly bolted. But not without their bonuses.
True, the aircraft were deployed domestically for a period of time, but it doesn't take Einstein to work out that a bigger aircraft than the 763 takes longer to turnaround.
2) The Rockwell-Collins IFE debacle...cheapest system, and BA had it before QF did. BA had as many problems with this system earlier on, but what did QF do? That's right - because it was cheap, it must be alright, so they bought it. Now who cops the brunt? The passengers (on a daily basis), and the hapless crew who are forced to play technician troubleshooter on a day by day basis.
3) Leasing the old BA 767RR aircraft. As a short term solution, a good choice for quick expansion. But having aircraft with completely different galleys, engines, etc. to the rest of the mainline fleet complicates (and doubles up) handling processes with engineering, catering, etc. With the aircraft now having had their original 7 year leases extended, the inefficiencies continue.
The average age of the QF fleet is 10 years old. To the extent that John Borghetti and co point to the Skytrax results as proof 'nothing is wrong', perhaps he should consider the same comments made by Skytrax surveyed passengers...'tired and old cabin'...'aircraft looked really old'...'movies didn't work'...that, and the fact that compared witih other carriers such as SQ - who are given a 5 star rating, QF only achieves a 4 star rating.
4) APA bid - nuff said.
In terms of service standards, modern training at Qantas when the new Domestic service was rolled out, consisted of a DVD crew had to study when they got home. Compare that with days gone by when you'd be brought into a classroom for a good hands-on exposure to everything associated with the new way of working. Cheaper? Certainly. Better?
You can bet SQ don't scrimp on how much they train their crew.
With edited highlights such as the above, and with said performance bonuses being paid to those responsible, is eliminating these payments altogether such a bad idea?
Performance bonuses were designed to retain those who did a great job. With performances such as these, would you want to retain those responsible?
This is the way I see it...
Frontline staff by in large receive a one-off bonus for each year where the airline makes profit targets. Even then, it's only $1000 pre-tax, not multi-thousands of dollars + shares + other incentives.
What pisses off many of the staff that I've come into contact with is seeing cut-backs made in crewing levels, product and amenities (just to name a few), to then receive feedback such as this (both in reality, and in surveys such as these), when the airline is turning over hundreds of millions of dollars in profit each year, and passing on ridiculous levels of bonuses to the people responsible in reducing passenger comfort and service levels on board the aircraft.
True, Australian travellers prior to the AN collapse were spoiled in comparison to those in other parts of the world. I remember the days of a 40 minute MEL-LST flight, hot meal with a cold option, offered bar, tea & coffee and clear in. So the adjustment to the LCC way of life has been a serious adjustment for many. The added adjustment of aligning markets with carriers whose cost creates a better margin has also been difficult - and not just for the flying public.
Qantas used to be a pioneer in many areas of flying. As I recall, they were one of the first (if not, THE FIRST) airline to introduce the concept of a Business Class back in the 70's. In comparison, now it simply reacts to its competitors only when forced (Skybed as one example), because 'god forbid we have to spend money'. The aversion with which QF spends money in some areas, and throws good money after bad in others, is alarming.
Whilst QF management probably believe they are doing the right thing, and deserve these bonuses, they're not performing with the love of Qantas in mind...rather, it's one eye on the bonus and 'what other board can I join while I'm here?'. Retaining management who put shareholders first, everyone else second, pulls QF into a short term vacuum.
The inability (or reluctance) of any long term planning has seriously impacted QF's ability to perform efficiently over the years. These include:
1) The A330-200 debacle...they ordered the original 4 x A332's with no consideration of how installing Skybed might affect the floor weight. By the time this costly error was discovered, the horses responsible had well and truly bolted. But not without their bonuses.
True, the aircraft were deployed domestically for a period of time, but it doesn't take Einstein to work out that a bigger aircraft than the 763 takes longer to turnaround.
2) The Rockwell-Collins IFE debacle...cheapest system, and BA had it before QF did. BA had as many problems with this system earlier on, but what did QF do? That's right - because it was cheap, it must be alright, so they bought it. Now who cops the brunt? The passengers (on a daily basis), and the hapless crew who are forced to play technician troubleshooter on a day by day basis.
3) Leasing the old BA 767RR aircraft. As a short term solution, a good choice for quick expansion. But having aircraft with completely different galleys, engines, etc. to the rest of the mainline fleet complicates (and doubles up) handling processes with engineering, catering, etc. With the aircraft now having had their original 7 year leases extended, the inefficiencies continue.
The average age of the QF fleet is 10 years old. To the extent that John Borghetti and co point to the Skytrax results as proof 'nothing is wrong', perhaps he should consider the same comments made by Skytrax surveyed passengers...'tired and old cabin'...'aircraft looked really old'...'movies didn't work'...that, and the fact that compared witih other carriers such as SQ - who are given a 5 star rating, QF only achieves a 4 star rating.
4) APA bid - nuff said.
In terms of service standards, modern training at Qantas when the new Domestic service was rolled out, consisted of a DVD crew had to study when they got home. Compare that with days gone by when you'd be brought into a classroom for a good hands-on exposure to everything associated with the new way of working. Cheaper? Certainly. Better?
You can bet SQ don't scrimp on how much they train their crew.
With edited highlights such as the above, and with said performance bonuses being paid to those responsible, is eliminating these payments altogether such a bad idea?
Performance bonuses were designed to retain those who did a great job. With performances such as these, would you want to retain those responsible?
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I think that the reason behind this anti Qantas backlash is that , for years, many many punters saw them as the only acceptable carrier for reasons of blind patriotism and jingoism ,which was carefully and skillfully exploited by clever QF marketing.
It didn't matter if the overall service was marginal.
Now things have changed . The average punter has read in the paper and watched on the television as the current crop of greedy Q.F managers has sent jobs offshore , aircraft maintenance offshore, and managed to cock up an attempt to sell most of the company offshore , and probably left it as majority overseas owned anyway.
Q.F. is no longer perceived as the Aussie icon it was.
It is a shell of a once mighty australian owned business, whose cost cutting has reduced service levels and destroyed the attitude of one of the most loyal workforces the country has ever seen.
It is now hitting them in the polls and will follow on to the box office.
No amount of touchy -feely advertising can correct this I fear.
The qantas board has displayed a disregard for everything except the bottom line - a dangerous an often fatal trait in a SERVICE industry.
Oh, and I am not a Q.F employee.
It didn't matter if the overall service was marginal.
Now things have changed . The average punter has read in the paper and watched on the television as the current crop of greedy Q.F managers has sent jobs offshore , aircraft maintenance offshore, and managed to cock up an attempt to sell most of the company offshore , and probably left it as majority overseas owned anyway.
Q.F. is no longer perceived as the Aussie icon it was.
It is a shell of a once mighty australian owned business, whose cost cutting has reduced service levels and destroyed the attitude of one of the most loyal workforces the country has ever seen.
It is now hitting them in the polls and will follow on to the box office.
No amount of touchy -feely advertising can correct this I fear.
The qantas board has displayed a disregard for everything except the bottom line - a dangerous an often fatal trait in a SERVICE industry.
Oh, and I am not a Q.F employee.
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QF really is the worst
I travel every 6 weeks on a international flight after too many flights I care to bore you about. I no longer will fly QF, everything about that survey is correct. You can sit there and refuse to accept it all you like but it has been fact on my flights. My instructions to my agent now is get me there anyway except QF, he laughs at that because he also has a QF crew member book with him and they request the same. I also have a girlfriend who is QF crew who was ex Ansett and cannot believe some of things she sees happen when she is at work. I myself am ex crew and know how the service shud be done and it isnt being done the way it shud b, all crew can be great when they know they are being checked. But if management refuse to accept there is any problem nothing will be fixed which only result in more customer walking to other airlines. Gee I wonder what would happen if SQ flew within Oz???? My guess pax would go there in droves. I dont normally post here but I felt some people need to know that things are all good at QF.
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Some people dont know when they have got it so good
Try comparing QF to OA, IB and AZ, then lets see who the worst international carrier is.
Have to admit though, J* is not much chop.
Have to admit though, J* is not much chop.
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The Reality
There are less crew doing a whole lot more work
The demogaphics of QF CC has changed dramatically
You now have a BKK Base an AKL Base,part time,a large pool of casuals and poor morale amongst permanent Australian crew.
If you are not happy you dont smile
So is there a correlation between declining service levels and the declining number of full time Australian crew....OR has QF service just been rubbish for its entire 86 year history?
The demogaphics of QF CC has changed dramatically
You now have a BKK Base an AKL Base,part time,a large pool of casuals and poor morale amongst permanent Australian crew.
If you are not happy you dont smile
So is there a correlation between declining service levels and the declining number of full time Australian crew....OR has QF service just been rubbish for its entire 86 year history?
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The Real Reality
In real terms it has never been cheaper to fly than now.
Expectations have increased exponentially and can never be met.
All of which means that most people are not aware of reality and are just whinging bastards
Expectations have increased exponentially and can never be met.
All of which means that most people are not aware of reality and are just whinging bastards
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Lowerlobe,
SIA's 777 200ER is configured 30J /255 EY and has 11 cabin crew, its the smallest a/c they have, mainly longhaul to Europe and the States.
On the BNE run the standard 777 200 has 13 cabin crew.
SIA's 777 200ER is configured 30J /255 EY and has 11 cabin crew, its the smallest a/c they have, mainly longhaul to Europe and the States.
On the BNE run the standard 777 200 has 13 cabin crew.
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mach2male - not sure if you were referring to me when it came to complaining that QF is full.
If so, I was not complaining. I was trying to point out that being full is probably a true indication of traveller's feelings towards QANTAS. If it is so sh1te, it would be empty. If you weren't referring to me, ignore this post...........
If so, I was not complaining. I was trying to point out that being full is probably a true indication of traveller's feelings towards QANTAS. If it is so sh1te, it would be empty. If you weren't referring to me, ignore this post...........
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Mach2male, I assume you are one of those homosexual Qantas stewards.
One of those bored individuals who sashay from one end of the aircraft to the other, usually wearing that little gold bracelet around your left (or is it your right?) wrist.
Now I don't mind yor sexual orientation. Back in the 1970's I was a patriotic Aussie, and some of the stuff done by Qantas staff made you simply proud to be Australian. The airline seemed to have a point to make, and did it brilliantly. The staff were motivated and did their best to make their customers happy relaxed and contented.
Fast forward to 2007. Machy - who I hope is not Qantas cabin crew, seems to think that we are lucky to be allowed to fly with Qantas, notwithstanding that capacity constraints make it diffficult to avoid his attentions.
Let me tell you Machy, that if Qantas was the last airline on earth we would still prefer not to fly with it, and postings like yours just reinforce our determination to do without f&*&wits like you.
One of those bored individuals who sashay from one end of the aircraft to the other, usually wearing that little gold bracelet around your left (or is it your right?) wrist.
Now I don't mind yor sexual orientation. Back in the 1970's I was a patriotic Aussie, and some of the stuff done by Qantas staff made you simply proud to be Australian. The airline seemed to have a point to make, and did it brilliantly. The staff were motivated and did their best to make their customers happy relaxed and contented.
Fast forward to 2007. Machy - who I hope is not Qantas cabin crew, seems to think that we are lucky to be allowed to fly with Qantas, notwithstanding that capacity constraints make it diffficult to avoid his attentions.
Let me tell you Machy, that if Qantas was the last airline on earth we would still prefer not to fly with it, and postings like yours just reinforce our determination to do without f&*&wits like you.
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Contradiction...YesTam
My wife and three kids may take issue with your assertion.
If you care to meet somewhere and bring a second with you I could rearrange your face for you.....just to prove a point.
Those that accuse others of being gay are usually living in the closet...with their boyfriends
If you care to meet somewhere and bring a second with you I could rearrange your face for you.....just to prove a point.
Those that accuse others of being gay are usually living in the closet...with their boyfriends
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Machy, you miss the point. I'm quite happy to have Prince Wahthisname and his boyfriend serve as Qantas Stewards. The problem I have is bad or totally inadequate service. You might also know that every person who thinks Qantas servce stinks tells about ten other people. I happily pay my Son's airfare differences so that he doen't have to fly with the red rat because I don't trust its maintenance standards nor work practices.
As an employer I have had to refrain from fiirng badly performing homosexual staff because I knew that if I did so, I was going to cop an "unfair dismissal" claim. Simplest method was a "come to Jesus" meeting and a $40,000 to $50,000 one off "redundancy payment". That usually did the trick.
As for your threats, I care not. You know perfectly well about the sexual orientation of your workmates and it is of no importance except from the point of view of their approach to flicking off the occasioanal requests of their passengers.
As for that last matter "the occasional requests of passengers", we have already worked out that we are an annoyance to you and that you couldn't care if we live or die.
We hope to return the favour.
Translation: The gays I know are better than the gays you know, and your airline is ****e.
As an employer I have had to refrain from fiirng badly performing homosexual staff because I knew that if I did so, I was going to cop an "unfair dismissal" claim. Simplest method was a "come to Jesus" meeting and a $40,000 to $50,000 one off "redundancy payment". That usually did the trick.
As for your threats, I care not. You know perfectly well about the sexual orientation of your workmates and it is of no importance except from the point of view of their approach to flicking off the occasioanal requests of their passengers.
As for that last matter "the occasional requests of passengers", we have already worked out that we are an annoyance to you and that you couldn't care if we live or die.
We hope to return the favour.
Translation: The gays I know are better than the gays you know, and your airline is ****e.
Last edited by YesTAM; 30th May 2007 at 11:30.