MAM & Dom/Reg FAAA
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casualvermin
sorry mate i thought you were having a shot at me and i apologise for having a shot at you.
I don't reckon casuals are scabs but crew who voted in s/h and their union are taking our flying but it's not the mam's fault.they are just applying for a job but people like twiggs think that they and the conditions are good and acceptable.thats what we cannot understand but then again not everyone here is really crew
Twiggs..glad to see you here, are you back from a staff meeting?
sorry mate i thought you were having a shot at me and i apologise for having a shot at you.
I don't reckon casuals are scabs but crew who voted in s/h and their union are taking our flying but it's not the mam's fault.they are just applying for a job but people like twiggs think that they and the conditions are good and acceptable.thats what we cannot understand but then again not everyone here is really crew
Twiggs..glad to see you here, are you back from a staff meeting?
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Something is going on with rosters, thats a fact. I have heard they are trying to eliminate seniority with demand days. COuldn't comment on Casual rosters, I do know that some have high hours, like 145-170 in 28 days, but again they are allowed to work 25 days.
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I am so tired of reading negative comments about casuals... We are just a group of people who want to be flight attendants and work on a Qantas Jet. Sadly we have no other choice as its pretty much the only option we have
[ other than spending years with Link or JQ].
Give us a break, god knows we would all like to work under the same conditions as permanent staff.. Something Im sure very few will ever have the opportunity to do!!!
[ other than spending years with Link or JQ].
Give us a break, god knows we would all like to work under the same conditions as permanent staff.. Something Im sure very few will ever have the opportunity to do!!!
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wa.man
mate if you read my post it is not the casuals we are upset with.It is the USE of casuals by the company and the relationship between certain groups that we find a bit dodgey.
In fact i said it was not the mam casuals fault as they are just applying for a job.
Our jobs (which we already have) are being reduced all the time by the use of casuals.it is not YOU it is the company and others that we have a problem with such as some here that support the use of casuals.i still can't get over the news that c mams only get 3 days off a month,mate thats wrong.
mate if you read my post it is not the casuals we are upset with.It is the USE of casuals by the company and the relationship between certain groups that we find a bit dodgey.
In fact i said it was not the mam casuals fault as they are just applying for a job.
Our jobs (which we already have) are being reduced all the time by the use of casuals.it is not YOU it is the company and others that we have a problem with such as some here that support the use of casuals.i still can't get over the news that c mams only get 3 days off a month,mate thats wrong.
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Roamingwolf..
Thanks for your reply...Certainly wasnt directed at you or anyone esle. Was just general statements about what I read on this forum....Think I am going to have to give up pprune, Im finding it all a bit depressing.
On the 3 day off issue for C contracts... We get approx 10 days off per month..We get to request a group of 3 days per month [not gaurenteed] although I must admitt I have always been given my request.
Think myself and most other casuals look at this as just a short term employment prospect. Very sad really..
Thanks for your reply...Certainly wasnt directed at you or anyone esle. Was just general statements about what I read on this forum....Think I am going to have to give up pprune, Im finding it all a bit depressing.
On the 3 day off issue for C contracts... We get approx 10 days off per month..We get to request a group of 3 days per month [not gaurenteed] although I must admitt I have always been given my request.
Think myself and most other casuals look at this as just a short term employment prospect. Very sad really..
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Quote- "Think myself and most other casuals look at this as just a short term employment prospect"
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Look on the bright side. At least Qantas gets what it wants. Courtesy of that "cosy" little relationship.........
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Look on the bright side. At least Qantas gets what it wants. Courtesy of that "cosy" little relationship.........
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Twiggsy.....
Sorry I missed you back on line.
I also missed your post to my question as to how you knew all the details about the MEL/NRT flight.
Very interesting........
LL
Sorry I missed you back on line.
I also missed your post to my question as to how you knew all the details about the MEL/NRT flight.
Very interesting........
LL
Hi Casualvermin
Yes the AO crew have been told they can apply for QCCUK but will be placed in a Short Haul base first.
I attended the AO seminar the other day and a few brief points were as follows:-
-Most crew will remain in Cairns. (220 positions)
-Current AO CMs will need to apply for CSM positions (only available in Cairns)
-10 FA positions in SYD
-20 FA positions in MEL
-50 FA positions in PER
-expressions of interest for voluntary transfer will be awarded according to start-date at AO
-once employment commences at short haul, crew will be able to transfer in accordance with the short haul EBA
-start dates/seniority will be re-set.
-The new cairns base will initially only be open to current AO crew.
-Qantas does not intend to employ casual crew in Cairns (...my thoughts.... watch this space!)
-Crew will have their 737, A330, and 767RR conversions during July, August and September.
Yes the AO crew have been told they can apply for QCCUK but will be placed in a Short Haul base first.
I attended the AO seminar the other day and a few brief points were as follows:-
-Most crew will remain in Cairns. (220 positions)
-Current AO CMs will need to apply for CSM positions (only available in Cairns)
-10 FA positions in SYD
-20 FA positions in MEL
-50 FA positions in PER
-expressions of interest for voluntary transfer will be awarded according to start-date at AO
-once employment commences at short haul, crew will be able to transfer in accordance with the short haul EBA
-start dates/seniority will be re-set.
-The new cairns base will initially only be open to current AO crew.
-Qantas does not intend to employ casual crew in Cairns (...my thoughts.... watch this space!)
-Crew will have their 737, A330, and 767RR conversions during July, August and September.
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Union time
While resting in the 'bottomless pitt' I had a dream. But I need some help in answering the questions it posed........
QF are very lucky, some might say the management team are the smartest men in the room. How clever they are. Whilst ripping away employee conditions and taking away 'frontline staff' from its customers, they've had a plan all along.
They have successfully set up a divided workforce amoungest cabin crew:
1. longhual
2. shorthaul[the weakest link]
- permanent[fulltime, reduced hours, part time]
- MAM
* contract A
* contract B
* contract C
3. AO
4. Jetstar
5. Jetstar intl
6. eastern/sunstate
7. njs
8. alliance
With AO merging with short haul, will set the precident for the rest of crew around the trap. It is imperative that FAAA INTL[FI] negotiate for AO crew, along side with FAAA Dom/Reg[fd].
Now should the 2 union merge?
If so, under what conditions?
How will we trust them?
Who should leave?
How will we elect officials?
Or should it remain as is and casuals get a new union?
Can the union stop falling into the 'jobs for the boys' trap?
QF are very lucky, some might say the management team are the smartest men in the room. How clever they are. Whilst ripping away employee conditions and taking away 'frontline staff' from its customers, they've had a plan all along.
They have successfully set up a divided workforce amoungest cabin crew:
1. longhual
2. shorthaul[the weakest link]
- permanent[fulltime, reduced hours, part time]
- MAM
* contract A
* contract B
* contract C
3. AO
4. Jetstar
5. Jetstar intl
6. eastern/sunstate
7. njs
8. alliance
With AO merging with short haul, will set the precident for the rest of crew around the trap. It is imperative that FAAA INTL[FI] negotiate for AO crew, along side with FAAA Dom/Reg[fd].
Now should the 2 union merge?
If so, under what conditions?
How will we trust them?
Who should leave?
How will we elect officials?
Or should it remain as is and casuals get a new union?
Can the union stop falling into the 'jobs for the boys' trap?
Casualvermin
I don't think there is any room for negotiation between the unions and Qantas with regard to what the company has offered AO crew. I'm confident I can speak for most if not all of us when I say we are a little overwhelmed with, and so appreciative of the offer of a permanent position in Qantas Short Haul. At the same time it is a reflection of the high standards and reputation achieved by AO crew over the last 4+ years.
I don't think there is any room for negotiation between the unions and Qantas with regard to what the company has offered AO crew. I'm confident I can speak for most if not all of us when I say we are a little overwhelmed with, and so appreciative of the offer of a permanent position in Qantas Short Haul. At the same time it is a reflection of the high standards and reputation achieved by AO crew over the last 4+ years.
Actually, we're not on a high-horse. I was repeating what was said to us at our recent seminar. The EGMs of Qantas, Australian Airlines, Qantas Regional Airlines, and also Janine Stewart all agreed that this was NOT just a business decision. The outcome was definitely influenced by the reputation of AO crew. So you can hardly say we are arrogant to think this way when we are being told this by senior Qantas management.
Had it simply been a "business decision" I think the outcome would have been a lot different. Think about it, when was the last time Qantas employed 300 permanent cabin crew? Years ago. My last post was simply stating that we are so grateful for the outcome and we are very pleased that Qantas has recognise our hard efforts since 2002. I never said AO crew were any better or worse than other Qantas group crew. Go back and read my last post midnight-63.
Had it simply been a "business decision" I think the outcome would have been a lot different. Think about it, when was the last time Qantas employed 300 permanent cabin crew? Years ago. My last post was simply stating that we are so grateful for the outcome and we are very pleased that Qantas has recognise our hard efforts since 2002. I never said AO crew were any better or worse than other Qantas group crew. Go back and read my last post midnight-63.
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Stockholm syndrome..
As well as a few ego's too...I suppose you will be voting with the S/H FAAA to take more of our flying as well because of your skill and reputation.
flitegirl..stand back and try not to be taken in by the usual rhetoric from the company for a moment.
IF AO crew's reputation and service was that great then why did they close AO down?
No wonder Darth gets away with so much but maybe after the weekends fiasco not for much longer.
As well as a few ego's too...I suppose you will be voting with the S/H FAAA to take more of our flying as well because of your skill and reputation.
flitegirl..stand back and try not to be taken in by the usual rhetoric from the company for a moment.
IF AO crew's reputation and service was that great then why did they close AO down?
No wonder Darth gets away with so much but maybe after the weekends fiasco not for much longer.
Business decisions yes......
The dumping of the AO brand in 2006 was a business decision. The non-viability of a separate AOC and AO no longer needed as an entity - a business decision.
However the outcome for the crew was not JUST a business decision. If it was it would have been JQ or redundency.
The dumping of the AO brand in 2006 was a business decision. The non-viability of a separate AOC and AO no longer needed as an entity - a business decision.
However the outcome for the crew was not JUST a business decision. If it was it would have been JQ or redundency.
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flitegirl -
Please do not take this the wrong way. My flight with AO DRW-SIN was one of the best examples of service I have witnessed on an aircraft. From the entire crew - not just one or two. However, I must concur with the others. I believe your situation is more to do with business and publicity than anything else.
I have come to learn that compliments and praise in the Qantas Group serve only one purpose and it is not for recognition or reward of employees.
Using your mentality the group of Cabin Crew formally known as Impulse should have got a better deal than Jetstar domestic.
Decisions made by management serve only themselves and the business. This is reflected in the way your base options are considered before actioning existing SH base transfers, for instance.
I realise you are not 'on a high horse' and you are just, understandably, proud of the effort made by yourself and your colleagues. But do not be so quick to advertise the fact. You are entering a much larger and complex operation where long-serving, loyal employees have been dealt less favourable cards. (The Perth LH base is another example.) This on top of rostering issues the MAM/permanent saga etc etc. I am sure you get my point.
Congratulations and well done on your offer of employment. I am sure AO crew will refresh things at SH for the better. But 300 cabin crew walking in boasting about their achievments and perhaps (some) complaining about seniority and bases can upset an already unstable applecart.
Please do not take this the wrong way. My flight with AO DRW-SIN was one of the best examples of service I have witnessed on an aircraft. From the entire crew - not just one or two. However, I must concur with the others. I believe your situation is more to do with business and publicity than anything else.
I have come to learn that compliments and praise in the Qantas Group serve only one purpose and it is not for recognition or reward of employees.
Using your mentality the group of Cabin Crew formally known as Impulse should have got a better deal than Jetstar domestic.
Decisions made by management serve only themselves and the business. This is reflected in the way your base options are considered before actioning existing SH base transfers, for instance.
I realise you are not 'on a high horse' and you are just, understandably, proud of the effort made by yourself and your colleagues. But do not be so quick to advertise the fact. You are entering a much larger and complex operation where long-serving, loyal employees have been dealt less favourable cards. (The Perth LH base is another example.) This on top of rostering issues the MAM/permanent saga etc etc. I am sure you get my point.
Congratulations and well done on your offer of employment. I am sure AO crew will refresh things at SH for the better. But 300 cabin crew walking in boasting about their achievments and perhaps (some) complaining about seniority and bases can upset an already unstable applecart.
ditzyboy,
Not one of my colleagues who I have caught up with over the last few days (around 20) have even mentioned any issue with seniority. We understand that the offer is standard as we never had career progression in AO EBAII. As I said before, we are just so grateful for the opportunity.
I know I am entering a much larger operation and I have been in that situation before AO. I'm very much looking forward to just getting the job done as a little fish in the big pond again.
As for "boasting"; well I don't really see anything in my posts as boasting.
Not one of my colleagues who I have caught up with over the last few days (around 20) have even mentioned any issue with seniority. We understand that the offer is standard as we never had career progression in AO EBAII. As I said before, we are just so grateful for the opportunity.
I know I am entering a much larger operation and I have been in that situation before AO. I'm very much looking forward to just getting the job done as a little fish in the big pond again.
As for "boasting"; well I don't really see anything in my posts as boasting.
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i reckon maybe it was this "we are a little overwhelmed with, and so appreciative of the offer of a permanent position in Qantas Short Haul. At the same time it is a reflection of the high standards and reputation achieved by AO crew over the last 4+ years"
So other cabin crew in the qf group do not have high standards and the reputation that AO crew do and thats why they are offering vr to s/h and giving you guys a base?
i reckon youll fit right in at s/h
So other cabin crew in the qf group do not have high standards and the reputation that AO crew do and thats why they are offering vr to s/h and giving you guys a base?
i reckon youll fit right in at s/h
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i reckon youll fit right in at s/h
flitegirl -
I certainly know that you had nothing but good intentions. As I mentioned you should be proud of yourself for being part of AO. I just wanted to make you aware that SH has a lot of 'cultural' issues at the moment. It is very easy for your comments to be taken the wrong way of for offense to be caused. As evidenced by posters above. The current environment sees many people easily offended. Most people have an opinion on everything.
I observe the current issues causing unrest at SH, in no particular order(!). Anyone care to add to the list?
Last edited by ditzyboy; 7th May 2007 at 04:17.
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In due time flitegirl will understand. Casuals have also been told how good we are and how passenger feedbck has improved
It is one way to make us more compliant, believe our talent and commitment has been recognised. END TOPIC.
Any FAAA reps out there like to tell us how the two unions will intergrate??
It is one way to make us more compliant, believe our talent and commitment has been recognised. END TOPIC.Any FAAA reps out there like to tell us how the two unions will intergrate??
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no ditzyboy
no more harsh than implying that AO crew have a beter reputation and standards than other crew in the group.
but casualvermin is right and this thread was supposed to be about the story on mam and s/h in the same office not ao crew
no more harsh than implying that AO crew have a beter reputation and standards than other crew in the group.
but casualvermin is right and this thread was supposed to be about the story on mam and s/h in the same office not ao crew