Rex; Pilot Exodus
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Rex; Pilot Exodus
Historically, regional airlines have been a traditional stepping stone into major airline positions, both here and overseas. On the other hand, they have also been the home of pilots wishing to maintain a comfortable flying career, though not highly lucrative, nevertheless providing relatively quick progression to captaincy.
With reference to the title of this thread, most FO's and a large number of captains are actively seeking positions elsewhere. It seems that there are not many crewmembers at Rex, who view the company with long term committment.
Vacant command positions, if they can be occupied, will be filled by inexperienced FO's in the not too distant future. This begs the question, where will the new recruits come from with Rex, Q'link, Pelair, etc. trawling a dwindling supply of quality IFR pilots.
Must the Rex owners/management simply cough up more money to maintain current staffing levels. Lets face it circa 70k capt, early 40k's FO's in this day and age are not 'comfortable' incomes, especially for those guys and girls living in Sydney with mortgages to repay and mouths to feed.
Also, must working conditions improve whereby crew are provided with a greater level of support pre and post flight. Should FO's be rushing around airports completing trim sheets, escorting pax and in some cases taking responsibility for unacommpanied minors. Must F/A's be responsible for not only cleaning the cabin and ordering supplys, but also dealing with unaccommpanied minors which on some occasions require waiting inside the terminal for the guardian/parent to attend, all of this inside a turnaround time of 35-40mins. Remember the swiss cheese model that is rightfully drummed into all crew once a year ?
Firstly, all flight crew renumeration must be addressed urgently!
It was recently published that Rex are now arguably, one of the most profitable airlines in the world. It is now time to start sharing this wealth with the people who create it. Pilots at Rex are speaking with their feet. This is not to say that simply more money will disuade pilots leaving for greener pastures, however, improved salaries will make some crew think twice.
Working conditions MUST be improved. Flightcrew and F/A's need more support on the ground, especially if OTP is to be achieved at the desired levels. More importantly, if this support isn't forthcoming the fatigue levels that crew are currently enduring, could lead to worse than just a late departure. Safety after all, is the number 1 priority.
Unfortunately morale at Rex is low. There's no two ways about it. This can be turned around quite easily. Investment in 'new' equipment (B++) will prove to be profitable.
Investment in the people who use this equipment, will prove to be priceless...
With reference to the title of this thread, most FO's and a large number of captains are actively seeking positions elsewhere. It seems that there are not many crewmembers at Rex, who view the company with long term committment.
Vacant command positions, if they can be occupied, will be filled by inexperienced FO's in the not too distant future. This begs the question, where will the new recruits come from with Rex, Q'link, Pelair, etc. trawling a dwindling supply of quality IFR pilots.
Must the Rex owners/management simply cough up more money to maintain current staffing levels. Lets face it circa 70k capt, early 40k's FO's in this day and age are not 'comfortable' incomes, especially for those guys and girls living in Sydney with mortgages to repay and mouths to feed.
Also, must working conditions improve whereby crew are provided with a greater level of support pre and post flight. Should FO's be rushing around airports completing trim sheets, escorting pax and in some cases taking responsibility for unacommpanied minors. Must F/A's be responsible for not only cleaning the cabin and ordering supplys, but also dealing with unaccommpanied minors which on some occasions require waiting inside the terminal for the guardian/parent to attend, all of this inside a turnaround time of 35-40mins. Remember the swiss cheese model that is rightfully drummed into all crew once a year ?
Firstly, all flight crew renumeration must be addressed urgently!
It was recently published that Rex are now arguably, one of the most profitable airlines in the world. It is now time to start sharing this wealth with the people who create it. Pilots at Rex are speaking with their feet. This is not to say that simply more money will disuade pilots leaving for greener pastures, however, improved salaries will make some crew think twice.
Working conditions MUST be improved. Flightcrew and F/A's need more support on the ground, especially if OTP is to be achieved at the desired levels. More importantly, if this support isn't forthcoming the fatigue levels that crew are currently enduring, could lead to worse than just a late departure. Safety after all, is the number 1 priority.
Unfortunately morale at Rex is low. There's no two ways about it. This can be turned around quite easily. Investment in 'new' equipment (B++) will prove to be profitable.
Investment in the people who use this equipment, will prove to be priceless...
Last edited by Naverick; 6th Apr 2007 at 03:20.
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This is going to be a very familiar story Australia wide. I am coming to the unfortunate conclusion that it’s not going to be rosy pursuing a long term career at these regional ‘airlines’.
Let’s face it. No time in the near future will the management types be offering pilots (or F/As) fruit baskets with a ‘sorry I didn’t value you’ card, and more importantly a substantial pay rise to overcome the rift they have created. This will happen only when it’s too late.
As for the improved working conditions? Less staff will mean more work for the remaining staff any way you look at it. The companies will need to offer flight crew a pretty big incentive to stay on working harder and at the same time entice others to sign up and do the same when so much opportunity is out there.
I agree that the companies need to address the flight crew remuneration urgently. Once the experience is gone, it is gone forever. I however do not believe that this will happen. If improved T&Cs were going to be offered then they would have done so by now, while the economy is strong and profits are high. Business is booming yet flight crew T&Cs have stayed the same.
Time to smell the coffee! I say get out and strike while the iron is hot and improve the life of your selves and your families. These companies certainly won’t – and if they do it will be only for the short term until they feel safe again. Then they will change the AWAs again (which everybody will be on by then) and you’ll be back to square one.
To put it eloquently – fcuk’em
Employee loyalty and respect can only be gained (earned) by the companies when they do the same – and that is shown through remuneration. The main reason we go to work is to get paid. Pay your employees poorly when times are GOOD and they will know how you really feel towards them.
One final up-side is that experienced pilot numbers are relatively low and don’t grow on trees like some think. Management positions however are a lot easier to replace. You don’t even need any formal qualifications. Think on that one for a while.
PS Good to see the Air force pay department is getting a kick up the ass finally.
Let’s face it. No time in the near future will the management types be offering pilots (or F/As) fruit baskets with a ‘sorry I didn’t value you’ card, and more importantly a substantial pay rise to overcome the rift they have created. This will happen only when it’s too late.
As for the improved working conditions? Less staff will mean more work for the remaining staff any way you look at it. The companies will need to offer flight crew a pretty big incentive to stay on working harder and at the same time entice others to sign up and do the same when so much opportunity is out there.
I agree that the companies need to address the flight crew remuneration urgently. Once the experience is gone, it is gone forever. I however do not believe that this will happen. If improved T&Cs were going to be offered then they would have done so by now, while the economy is strong and profits are high. Business is booming yet flight crew T&Cs have stayed the same.
Time to smell the coffee! I say get out and strike while the iron is hot and improve the life of your selves and your families. These companies certainly won’t – and if they do it will be only for the short term until they feel safe again. Then they will change the AWAs again (which everybody will be on by then) and you’ll be back to square one.
To put it eloquently – fcuk’em
Employee loyalty and respect can only be gained (earned) by the companies when they do the same – and that is shown through remuneration. The main reason we go to work is to get paid. Pay your employees poorly when times are GOOD and they will know how you really feel towards them.
One final up-side is that experienced pilot numbers are relatively low and don’t grow on trees like some think. Management positions however are a lot easier to replace. You don’t even need any formal qualifications. Think on that one for a while.
PS Good to see the Air force pay department is getting a kick up the ass finally.
Last edited by Erin Brockovich; 7th Apr 2007 at 03:05.
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Naverick
Surely you are exaggerating "F/Os are responsible for unacommpanied minors", I thought that problem was solved years ago at Kendells!
If you really are required to be a babysitter then I am not surprised if people are walking out.
As for escorting pax, I think you will be stuck with that in all GA operations not just REX.
My advice would be just do your job to the best of your ability and don't make waves, you never know who might put in a good or bad word for you when you apply to the real airlines!
PS - The guys I know in Rex (mostly in AD) tell me morale has really improved in the last 6 - 12 months. I would be interested to hear what anyone else has to say?
Surely you are exaggerating "F/Os are responsible for unacommpanied minors", I thought that problem was solved years ago at Kendells!
If you really are required to be a babysitter then I am not surprised if people are walking out.
As for escorting pax, I think you will be stuck with that in all GA operations not just REX.
My advice would be just do your job to the best of your ability and don't make waves, you never know who might put in a good or bad word for you when you apply to the real airlines!
PS - The guys I know in Rex (mostly in AD) tell me morale has really improved in the last 6 - 12 months. I would be interested to hear what anyone else has to say?
Last edited by areal; 6th Apr 2007 at 05:49.
areal.
The above posts are very sad and I'm afraid very true.
The sort of nonsense that is expected of these professional aircrew had it's genesis in the collapse of Ansett. While Hazelton Airlines was always tight on resourses, (it had to be in part due to its independant position), Kendell were incorporated some years earlier under the Ansett umbrella. As a result they were able to move substantially forward with their terms and conditions for Pilots and Flight Attendants.
I was there when the new owners picked the eyes out of the more efficient practices of the 2 former airlines. There is no doubt that they (the Singaporean owners) have done a stupendous job of raising us from the ashes, and growing the business, but it now appears that they have lost sight of the very reason that REX, untill recenlty was a truely great place to work. Its people!
They have effectively turned the clock back 15 years on T&C's and I will be supprised if they don't realise the severity of the situation untill it is too late.
The above posts are very sad and I'm afraid very true.
The sort of nonsense that is expected of these professional aircrew had it's genesis in the collapse of Ansett. While Hazelton Airlines was always tight on resourses, (it had to be in part due to its independant position), Kendell were incorporated some years earlier under the Ansett umbrella. As a result they were able to move substantially forward with their terms and conditions for Pilots and Flight Attendants.
I was there when the new owners picked the eyes out of the more efficient practices of the 2 former airlines. There is no doubt that they (the Singaporean owners) have done a stupendous job of raising us from the ashes, and growing the business, but it now appears that they have lost sight of the very reason that REX, untill recenlty was a truely great place to work. Its people!
They have effectively turned the clock back 15 years on T&C's and I will be supprised if they don't realise the severity of the situation untill it is too late.
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Yes areal....there is a certain ex Rex FOM from ADL that is more than happy to let anyone who will listen know that to get into Jetstar you had better of been on his good side. Apparently J* ask him for a reference on most Rex guys wether you have him down as a reference or not. One guy actually did have him as a reference (after the oll FOM said that was fine)and has since found out this guys reference is responsible for him missing out. The ex FOM is quite proud of "railroading" this guys career, but his actions have all but confirmed what the large majority of Rex guys think of him...an insecure ********.
From what I understand morale at Rex has slightly imporved since PK's departure (for obvious reasons) and they now have a FOM that is putting in a decent effort to try and improve things around the base.
Rex FO's are still doing the daddy day care thing with UM's.
Sure conditions should improve for the guys at Rex ADL, but while there are still managers there that think it is OK to operate an 8 or 9 plane base with 1 servicable GPU, and for crews to walk 2km back to the crew room at the end of a shift cause he dosn't want to pay the bus driver 15 mins overtime to go and pick them up, who knows when the good times will return.
From what I understand morale at Rex has slightly imporved since PK's departure (for obvious reasons) and they now have a FOM that is putting in a decent effort to try and improve things around the base.
Rex FO's are still doing the daddy day care thing with UM's.
Sure conditions should improve for the guys at Rex ADL, but while there are still managers there that think it is OK to operate an 8 or 9 plane base with 1 servicable GPU, and for crews to walk 2km back to the crew room at the end of a shift cause he dosn't want to pay the bus driver 15 mins overtime to go and pick them up, who knows when the good times will return.
Won't matter what Rex or anyone else pays, the vast majority will chase the dream / perceived glory of the heavier iron.
There will be a few who are either happy with the comfort zone or too old to want to step up.
Why pay more when the fact is the majority of your crew will jump ship first chance they get.
There will be a few who are either happy with the comfort zone or too old to want to step up.
Why pay more when the fact is the majority of your crew will jump ship first chance they get.
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The three things that will keep pilots long term (in no particular order), are pay, rostering (ie: Lifestyle) and progression! If you haven't got all 3 then you will always have turn over...
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Once experience gone, gone forever....is exactly what is happening at REX. It's no longer just a few guys moving on now and then. It includes senior captains taking with them a wealth of experience. This also means that renumeration for check & training staff seriously needs to be addressed. Training capts allowance is 10% of salary, only when training. Not good enough!
Addressing some of the previous posts;
FO's do indeed on occasions escort u/m's. Fact. There are in my opinion, too many other obligations an FO has to fulfil in short turnarounds, to then be concerning him/herself with the needs of a young child. The same also applies for F/A's. This is clearly the role of customer service, not flightcrew.
REX is not a GA company. This is certainly not to belittle GA organisations, however, REX operate >5700kg aircraft in RPT, therefore we can safely assume REX is and should be operated as an airline.
The original post was not necessarily written to make waves. It states facts and raises concerns for the REX flight/cabin crew. This group are in my opinion, the most important and valuable assett any airline has. If this seems to be an arrogant statement, let's look at one very simple fact.
If flight/cabin crew fail to show up for work, notwithstanding reserves etc. aircraft aren't going anywhere, therefore, no revenue.
If airport managers, accountants etc don't show up for a while, we live to fight another day.
In fact if this post makes some waves, great. Not too worried bout the good or bad words mate. I'll zip up me 3mil, get me board out and go catch one!
As far as morale in AD is concerned, I am aware of a good number of guys & girls actively seeking positions elsewhere. I don't agree with contributers using initials on pprune, however, the person to which i believe you are referring to, is an excellent operator and was a professional base manager and check pilot. In my opinion a big loss to REX.
The big argument is, if operators such as REX simply pay more money and improve workplace conditions, will they keep their existing staff ? Considering that crew are at the 'sharp end' and generating the revenue, of course they should be given and surely deserve a much bigger slice of the pie.This might stop the attrition rate from being as high as it is.
REX have no other option other than to improve conditions. Investment has to be made in it's current work force....
Cadets not welcome!!
Addressing some of the previous posts;
FO's do indeed on occasions escort u/m's. Fact. There are in my opinion, too many other obligations an FO has to fulfil in short turnarounds, to then be concerning him/herself with the needs of a young child. The same also applies for F/A's. This is clearly the role of customer service, not flightcrew.
REX is not a GA company. This is certainly not to belittle GA organisations, however, REX operate >5700kg aircraft in RPT, therefore we can safely assume REX is and should be operated as an airline.
The original post was not necessarily written to make waves. It states facts and raises concerns for the REX flight/cabin crew. This group are in my opinion, the most important and valuable assett any airline has. If this seems to be an arrogant statement, let's look at one very simple fact.
If flight/cabin crew fail to show up for work, notwithstanding reserves etc. aircraft aren't going anywhere, therefore, no revenue.
If airport managers, accountants etc don't show up for a while, we live to fight another day.
In fact if this post makes some waves, great. Not too worried bout the good or bad words mate. I'll zip up me 3mil, get me board out and go catch one!
As far as morale in AD is concerned, I am aware of a good number of guys & girls actively seeking positions elsewhere. I don't agree with contributers using initials on pprune, however, the person to which i believe you are referring to, is an excellent operator and was a professional base manager and check pilot. In my opinion a big loss to REX.
The big argument is, if operators such as REX simply pay more money and improve workplace conditions, will they keep their existing staff ? Considering that crew are at the 'sharp end' and generating the revenue, of course they should be given and surely deserve a much bigger slice of the pie.This might stop the attrition rate from being as high as it is.
REX have no other option other than to improve conditions. Investment has to be made in it's current work force....
Cadets not welcome!!
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As I said in a recent post, increasing the pay at places like Rex will probably not keep pilots but improved life style will. For example, if you had a SAAB command earning 80k and were getting every second weekend off, it would be a pretty hard job to leave.
Rex howeaver is a GA company, airline pilots don't handle unaccompanied minors!
Rex howeaver is a GA company, airline pilots don't handle unaccompanied minors!
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I think I need to clarify some of the main points discussed here.
Pay and Conditions(call it lifestyle) go hand in hand. You can’t have one without the other in today’s climate. By ‘today’s climate’ I mean less experienced pilots to go around.
1st point – I’m seeing a common view coming up from some people (and that’s fine) that improving pays will not stop pilots leaving for bigger and better. Well I can guarantee that doing nothing to address the problem will achieve exactly that; nothing. I remember (not very well) a definition for insanity – doing or acting the same way every time yet expecting a different result.
2nd point – I agree that some people would be happy with just improved conditions, roster or lifestyle. Here is the catch. To improve a roster you need greater flexibility. Flexibility is achieved by sufficient crew numbers. Sufficient crew numbers are achieved when attrition is outweighed by line checked new hires. This can only be achieved with sufficient check trainers and suitable recruits (plus most importantly, a stable core of happy crew). Don’t pay enough and you don’t get either – hence you have a sh$tty roster working max duty.
Rex and similar companies can’t afford not to improve pays. Whether they realise it or not is a different story. I’m starting to feel that regional management would rather cut off their noses to spite their faces rather than give pilots a pay rise.
A very sad and puerile attitude that will be the downfall of many organisations.
Pay and Conditions(call it lifestyle) go hand in hand. You can’t have one without the other in today’s climate. By ‘today’s climate’ I mean less experienced pilots to go around.
1st point – I’m seeing a common view coming up from some people (and that’s fine) that improving pays will not stop pilots leaving for bigger and better. Well I can guarantee that doing nothing to address the problem will achieve exactly that; nothing. I remember (not very well) a definition for insanity – doing or acting the same way every time yet expecting a different result.
2nd point – I agree that some people would be happy with just improved conditions, roster or lifestyle. Here is the catch. To improve a roster you need greater flexibility. Flexibility is achieved by sufficient crew numbers. Sufficient crew numbers are achieved when attrition is outweighed by line checked new hires. This can only be achieved with sufficient check trainers and suitable recruits (plus most importantly, a stable core of happy crew). Don’t pay enough and you don’t get either – hence you have a sh$tty roster working max duty.
Rex and similar companies can’t afford not to improve pays. Whether they realise it or not is a different story. I’m starting to feel that regional management would rather cut off their noses to spite their faces rather than give pilots a pay rise.
A very sad and puerile attitude that will be the downfall of many organisations.
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I'm afraid you're wrong folks! Not all of us are caught up in this whole progression crap. There are many who, including myself, who like to have the balance of job satisfaction and lifestyle. Look at Skywest for example. The only reason they are hiring so much is due to company expansion. If you look at the list, most of these guys are long termers, and for those who aren't, fully intend to be. Why? Because they can have both a good job with reasonable income plus a great lifestyle.
As an ex Kendell Saab pilot, if they paid the right coin, I would very seriously consider returning. But to return as an FO or even the command pay they offer would be crazy.
The market has turned aviation managers of Australia, now its a matter of what have you got to offer, not what we're willing to bend over for
As an ex Kendell Saab pilot, if they paid the right coin, I would very seriously consider returning. But to return as an FO or even the command pay they offer would be crazy.
The market has turned aviation managers of Australia, now its a matter of what have you got to offer, not what we're willing to bend over for
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JetA OK, Jet* F/Os get around $95-100k and the endorsement cost $33500 of which you will get 30% back if you claim it as a tax deduction. There are no overnights and on average you will work 14-15 days per month. There are 9 more A320s on the way so progression is quite good at the moment - 2/3 years for current F/Os. I know where i would rather be !
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This begs the question, where will the new recruits come from with Rex, Q'link, Pelair, etc. trawling a dwindling supply of quality IFR pilots.
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Well said naverick 
completely agree on all points, time to start paying up rex management and get serious about conditions!
I would also like to see some unity within the rex pilot body and some fair dinkum negotiating this time with the rex pc.
A lot of FO's feel that during the last negotiations the captains were looked after a lot more when it came to our profit share agreements.
completely agree on all points, time to start paying up rex management and get serious about conditions!I would also like to see some unity within the rex pilot body and some fair dinkum negotiating this time with the rex pc.
A lot of FO's feel that during the last negotiations the captains were looked after a lot more when it came to our profit share agreements.
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Nice one Naverick. Heard from a mate in Rex that you guys are working RDOs to keep the show on the road. How about you all getting together and not doing this for starters. Say for a couple of weeks or a month.I know the moneys useful but working to rule might send a loud mesage.
Good luck
Good luck
i;m told that one used to get some $400 for a rdo that was worked but then was changed to a day off in liu, is that still the case, and are getting the owed days off next to impossible??
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The ****e they make the FO's do is absolultely fuc*#'d,
I won't go through everything but I found it disgusting that their policy and procd's manual stated that the flight crew had to take UM's to meet their parents as well as trying to turn the A/C around. (if no one else was avail)
Many other things used to piss me off like walking in the rain at sydney to do the trim (around 400m, no rain coat in A/C) because they were to tight to pay a dipatcher, meet and greet pax and then jump into the right seat while the Capt called for the start checklist (really safe!!!!), work around 22 days a month, get rostered 6 on 1 off and then another 6 on, fly those piece of crap A models in MEL fully loaded while half empty B's flew around SYD and ADL, explaning to people why their bags were being off loaded whilst they boarded the A/C, the list goes on.......
The pay was crap $40000 plus DTA for new FO (my mate driving a street sweeper gets more money)
The icing on the cake was that when it came time for profit share, the FO's got the least out of everyone (by about $1500) thanks to a large waisted man in SYD!!!! People in ckeck in, dipatch, FA all got more than the FO's
This company has no hope of holding onto any good FO's who wish to further their careers flying for a REAL AIRLINE while they persist dishing up the crap they do!! They can afford to pay a lot more (look at their profit margins)
On a brighter note the majority of people are great to work with and i do feel sorry for the ones stuck there because they will be getting flogged over the next 3-4 years because the lack of crew!!
I was glad to say good-bye to REX and I know that around 90% of the crew I know there are actively seeking to get out!!
All I can say is good luck One Wing Low and I suggest you sell now before you have nobody to fly your A/C..........
I won't go through everything but I found it disgusting that their policy and procd's manual stated that the flight crew had to take UM's to meet their parents as well as trying to turn the A/C around. (if no one else was avail)
Many other things used to piss me off like walking in the rain at sydney to do the trim (around 400m, no rain coat in A/C) because they were to tight to pay a dipatcher, meet and greet pax and then jump into the right seat while the Capt called for the start checklist (really safe!!!!), work around 22 days a month, get rostered 6 on 1 off and then another 6 on, fly those piece of crap A models in MEL fully loaded while half empty B's flew around SYD and ADL, explaning to people why their bags were being off loaded whilst they boarded the A/C, the list goes on.......
The pay was crap $40000 plus DTA for new FO (my mate driving a street sweeper gets more money)
The icing on the cake was that when it came time for profit share, the FO's got the least out of everyone (by about $1500) thanks to a large waisted man in SYD!!!! People in ckeck in, dipatch, FA all got more than the FO's
This company has no hope of holding onto any good FO's who wish to further their careers flying for a REAL AIRLINE while they persist dishing up the crap they do!! They can afford to pay a lot more (look at their profit margins)
On a brighter note the majority of people are great to work with and i do feel sorry for the ones stuck there because they will be getting flogged over the next 3-4 years because the lack of crew!!
I was glad to say good-bye to REX and I know that around 90% of the crew I know there are actively seeking to get out!!
All I can say is good luck One Wing Low and I suggest you sell now before you have nobody to fly your A/C..........
Last edited by G Cantstandya; 10th Apr 2007 at 05:44.