Jetstar StarClass
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Yeah Dodgy I think this article is relating to normal not star class, as he didnt mention it, so probably belongs elsewhere. Pity for him i came back Phuket to Brisbane (via Bangkok ) 2 years ago and it was not bad, and ony $400 !! God damn I didnt realise the meals were $26 each! lol i thought they only be 10 bucks or somethings haha, sounds crap.
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The plan is simple, and becoming clearer. The plan is not for a low cost airline, the plan is for a low salary airline. A big difference. The plan is to expand and develop the Qantas group without the current staff and terms and conditions and the unions. The easiest way to do it without massive industrial disruption, is to do it through the back door. The back door is, and has always been the "Qantas Group" which Jetstar is an integral part.
Dixons words, "the first 10 787s are going to jetstar, the rest will go to where they are best utilised". Fair enough, every company has the right to do that, and would be bordering on negligence if they didnt. But lets think what that means for mainline terms and conditions. How are they going to compete? Match Jetstar rates, or the Qantas group will expand around them, without them, despite them.
Dont think it will happen? Casing point, Australian Airlines. As of July, the orange paint disappeared, the blue shirts swapped for white, the paint job back to red and white, business seats put back in, the tickets sold at Qantas premium prices, low and behold, the only thing that didnt go back to the Qantas standard was the staff salaries! Big surprise? No. What was the industrial comeback? Nothing. What was the regulators response? Nothing. What was the final result? Qantas mainline product being operated by people on less money than the mainline staff agreement.
Does anyone out there think that G.D didnt realise the the significance of this industrial change?
Now, look forward a few years from now, and tell me that GD doesnt have this trump card up his sleeve ready to play it on the introduction of the 787 into the "Qantas Group"? Mainline will still exist, as the Qantas brand is valuable, and worth keeping. Jetstar will still exist, as it serves a purpose of servicing a completely different market. Unfortunately only the staff stuck in the middle and closer to the bottom will suffer. That is junior Captains and FOs, and all SO's. Management sure as hell wont suffer, and those at the top of the QF seniority list wont. Just dont expect them to do anything to help the unfortunates about to be shafted.
Dixons words, "the first 10 787s are going to jetstar, the rest will go to where they are best utilised". Fair enough, every company has the right to do that, and would be bordering on negligence if they didnt. But lets think what that means for mainline terms and conditions. How are they going to compete? Match Jetstar rates, or the Qantas group will expand around them, without them, despite them.
Dont think it will happen? Casing point, Australian Airlines. As of July, the orange paint disappeared, the blue shirts swapped for white, the paint job back to red and white, business seats put back in, the tickets sold at Qantas premium prices, low and behold, the only thing that didnt go back to the Qantas standard was the staff salaries! Big surprise? No. What was the industrial comeback? Nothing. What was the regulators response? Nothing. What was the final result? Qantas mainline product being operated by people on less money than the mainline staff agreement.
Does anyone out there think that G.D didnt realise the the significance of this industrial change?
Now, look forward a few years from now, and tell me that GD doesnt have this trump card up his sleeve ready to play it on the introduction of the 787 into the "Qantas Group"? Mainline will still exist, as the Qantas brand is valuable, and worth keeping. Jetstar will still exist, as it serves a purpose of servicing a completely different market. Unfortunately only the staff stuck in the middle and closer to the bottom will suffer. That is junior Captains and FOs, and all SO's. Management sure as hell wont suffer, and those at the top of the QF seniority list wont. Just dont expect them to do anything to help the unfortunates about to be shafted.
dodgybrothers,
from the post in question...
I think it's fair to say that this bloke was definitely not in Star Class if he was in row 49. Still related to the overall topic I would have thought though.
Anyway, JQ Intl sounds like lots of fun (NOT), I'll be buying a ZED Fare on another carrier if the alternative to Staff Travel on JQ is there. Same goes for domestic, in the early stages of planning a holiday right now and going for Cairns over anywhere else in QLD (i.e. hamilton island, proserpine etc) as I know there are 5 QF flights a day and I can sit in business and avoid the JQ rubbish.
I might just be a staff traveller but if something like that factors into the holiday equation then I'm sure there's thousands of other people out there doing the same.
TL
jetstar starclass you don't pay for meals so the guy is either having a lend or that post belongs somewhere else
Beware of seats 49H and 49J
Anyway, JQ Intl sounds like lots of fun (NOT), I'll be buying a ZED Fare on another carrier if the alternative to Staff Travel on JQ is there. Same goes for domestic, in the early stages of planning a holiday right now and going for Cairns over anywhere else in QLD (i.e. hamilton island, proserpine etc) as I know there are 5 QF flights a day and I can sit in business and avoid the JQ rubbish.
I might just be a staff traveller but if something like that factors into the holiday equation then I'm sure there's thousands of other people out there doing the same.
TL
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The gentle art of avoiding may be the easiest way to combat Jetstaritis.
We book bucketloads of professional surfers to Bali and HNL, and they avoid JQ like the plague. On the HNL run, Hawaiian actually make JQ look excellent. At least it appears JQ cabin service and aeroplane presentation is up to scratch. So it should be.
The interesting thing is Garuda is within dollars generally on the Bali run with full service. The A330 is a nice beastie for both carriers, and GA landings are more impacts than a gentle arrival but the overall experience is excellent.
Thai are excellent value to HKT despite the BKK transit and come in close in price again with full service. It is all perception. Most of the travel occasionally traffic assume that because it is a LCC they are immediately getting a good deal.
A client called me from NAN to say his Virgin Pacific flight had been cancelled due to the Captain going U/S in SYD and they were stuck there overnight. There was an Air Pacific flight rolling 2 hours later and DJ had no transfer arrangement in place.
The flight I E ticketed for him was actually cheaper by $40.00 per person than the allged cheapie his wife bought online 6 months earlier - and with full service. They booked it themselves on the web and I was told to get rooted when I asked if they had called the web to fix it - in a friendly way - sort of!
LCCs are all the go with ultra cheap frares - UNTIL - the load starts to get a bit cheerful. From then on check the full service carriers. Generally the overall experience will be a damned side better.
Best all
EWL
We book bucketloads of professional surfers to Bali and HNL, and they avoid JQ like the plague. On the HNL run, Hawaiian actually make JQ look excellent. At least it appears JQ cabin service and aeroplane presentation is up to scratch. So it should be.
The interesting thing is Garuda is within dollars generally on the Bali run with full service. The A330 is a nice beastie for both carriers, and GA landings are more impacts than a gentle arrival but the overall experience is excellent.
Thai are excellent value to HKT despite the BKK transit and come in close in price again with full service. It is all perception. Most of the travel occasionally traffic assume that because it is a LCC they are immediately getting a good deal.
A client called me from NAN to say his Virgin Pacific flight had been cancelled due to the Captain going U/S in SYD and they were stuck there overnight. There was an Air Pacific flight rolling 2 hours later and DJ had no transfer arrangement in place.
The flight I E ticketed for him was actually cheaper by $40.00 per person than the allged cheapie his wife bought online 6 months earlier - and with full service. They booked it themselves on the web and I was told to get rooted when I asked if they had called the web to fix it - in a friendly way - sort of!
LCCs are all the go with ultra cheap frares - UNTIL - the load starts to get a bit cheerful. From then on check the full service carriers. Generally the overall experience will be a damned side better.
Best all
EWL
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Firstly Elroy: wish I'd read your post earlier, have just posted on the topic "Qantas pilot recruitment" and our views are very similar
EW Loco: always great to hear from you, amazingly articulate even for an "adopted" Taswegian (think about that, meant to be a compliment!)
Even Jetstar can change - remember how in the early days it was "the way to go" (according to AJ) to have non-allocated seating, now seating is allocated.
They have screwed up with Jetstar Intl, keeping people captive and hungry for a (max) 5 hour domestic flight you can get away with, sectors of 10+ are another thing.
The evolution may well be:
-Jetstar Intl will go to free meals and "improve" the service in Business Class, the quality and quantity of the said nourishment TBC;
- GD will increasingly be quoted as saying "Qantas can no longer absorb losses on the xxx-xxx route but we are happy that we will still service or loyal customers from within the QANTAS group with the benefits of...."
That does NOT have to necessarily be Jetstar btw! - why not Australian Airlines, Jetstar Asia, Jitkinnekt or even NatJets - all part of the Qantas GROUP??
I agree with Elroy - the aim is low cost salary, NOT low cost airline and Jetstar (and the other options available) will be utilised as required and one day the QF "mainline" brand will be dominant again but at a lower cost base.
EWLoco a question if I may - I know airline tickets pretty "liberal" regarding the obligation of airlines to fulfill their "contract" however, for example using your quoted situation of substituting Jetstar Intl for Qantas IF it could be shown that QF (or the CE in particular, that's where the buck should stop)) sold a seat on a full service airline KNOWING, or having REASONABLE INTENT that there would be a substitution to a non full-service airline, isn't that out and out misrepresentation to the consumer and hence deemed illegal??
A job for Slater & Gordon (or similar)??
Regards to all.
EW Loco: always great to hear from you, amazingly articulate even for an "adopted" Taswegian (think about that, meant to be a compliment!)
Even Jetstar can change - remember how in the early days it was "the way to go" (according to AJ) to have non-allocated seating, now seating is allocated.
They have screwed up with Jetstar Intl, keeping people captive and hungry for a (max) 5 hour domestic flight you can get away with, sectors of 10+ are another thing.
The evolution may well be:
-Jetstar Intl will go to free meals and "improve" the service in Business Class, the quality and quantity of the said nourishment TBC;
- GD will increasingly be quoted as saying "Qantas can no longer absorb losses on the xxx-xxx route but we are happy that we will still service or loyal customers from within the QANTAS group with the benefits of...."
That does NOT have to necessarily be Jetstar btw! - why not Australian Airlines, Jetstar Asia, Jitkinnekt or even NatJets - all part of the Qantas GROUP??
I agree with Elroy - the aim is low cost salary, NOT low cost airline and Jetstar (and the other options available) will be utilised as required and one day the QF "mainline" brand will be dominant again but at a lower cost base.
EWLoco a question if I may - I know airline tickets pretty "liberal" regarding the obligation of airlines to fulfill their "contract" however, for example using your quoted situation of substituting Jetstar Intl for Qantas IF it could be shown that QF (or the CE in particular, that's where the buck should stop)) sold a seat on a full service airline KNOWING, or having REASONABLE INTENT that there would be a substitution to a non full-service airline, isn't that out and out misrepresentation to the consumer and hence deemed illegal??
A job for Slater & Gordon (or similar)??
Regards to all.
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Elroy,
You have summed it up very well - expanded on my short theory in post # 9.
There is no doubt in my mind that this is the agenda and the sale of Q.F will only accelerate the process. Competition from the likes of Tiger airways will be used as an additional catalyst to turn many employee groups - particularly large ones such as Flight Attendants , into a low salary, high turnover jobs with little or no career progression or job satisfaction.
The general public won't give a rats because management will trot out statistics to say they are still employed. Airline jobs in general are viewed by the public as pretty cushy-particularly flight attendants.
If I was Q.F mainline -any division -I would be extremely worried.
You have summed it up very well - expanded on my short theory in post # 9.
There is no doubt in my mind that this is the agenda and the sale of Q.F will only accelerate the process. Competition from the likes of Tiger airways will be used as an additional catalyst to turn many employee groups - particularly large ones such as Flight Attendants , into a low salary, high turnover jobs with little or no career progression or job satisfaction.
The general public won't give a rats because management will trot out statistics to say they are still employed. Airline jobs in general are viewed by the public as pretty cushy-particularly flight attendants.
If I was Q.F mainline -any division -I would be extremely worried.
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Low salary is correct
JQ is just a low salary carrier to help Dixon reduce costs & conditions at Qantas Mainline. It's a pity his aim couldn't be achieved in a civilised manner rather than by 'inventing' Jetstar. We all know that Mainline conditions are out of whack with community standards (where's my hard hat?) but the bullies from TN have taken the easy way out.
JQ are certainly not low cost for most punters as most of the empirical eveidence suggests - what a shame some of the journalists don't make some comparative studies of the fare offerings and post their results. Only yesterday I was looking at Darwin-Singapore on 8th March, chosen totally at random. While the 'fess and taxes' on both Tiger and Jetscar were within a cent or so of each other, their fares certainly were not: JQ one way fare was $435 while Tiger were offering a fare of just $34.99. Admiitedly, Tiger depart at 0300 local but hey, $400 in your wallet instead of someone's hotel till makes a lot of sense. I ask you, who is really low cost?
By the way, as the JQ flights Cairns/Darwin to Singapore are operated by Jetstar Asia with their all economy A320's, their much promoted Starclass is not available.
JQ are certainly not low cost for most punters as most of the empirical eveidence suggests - what a shame some of the journalists don't make some comparative studies of the fare offerings and post their results. Only yesterday I was looking at Darwin-Singapore on 8th March, chosen totally at random. While the 'fess and taxes' on both Tiger and Jetscar were within a cent or so of each other, their fares certainly were not: JQ one way fare was $435 while Tiger were offering a fare of just $34.99. Admiitedly, Tiger depart at 0300 local but hey, $400 in your wallet instead of someone's hotel till makes a lot of sense. I ask you, who is really low cost?
By the way, as the JQ flights Cairns/Darwin to Singapore are operated by Jetstar Asia with their all economy A320's, their much promoted Starclass is not available.
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what exactly are you talking about ?
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Galdian - G'day!
I am inclined to think the substitution of JQ for QF would have happened to passengers who had booked pre December, when the service dates of the QF3/4 ops were changed and mixed with JQ. At the time passengers who booked with humans were given the option of swapping to the nearest date with QF metal or remaining on the QF codeshare on the JQ metal. This was generally without compensation as most of the fares at that stage were fairly close to the regular JQ levels (opening specials notwithstanding of course).
Those who had booked on the web would have received a schedule change notification detailing a QF300 series flight number and modified timings, but would most likely have not twigged the "operated by Jetstar Airways" disclaimer under the flight details. Hence, they would most likely have gone wandering happily to the 'drome only to find an A330 parked where they expected to see a 743 or 763.
The QF codeshare on JQ can actually be sold on a return basis providing one leg is on QF metal as all QF flight numbers through the GDS's. This is done on QF published or nett remit fares.
Assuming the same occurs with web bookings, many would be unaware that they have booked a JQ seat in one direction and that would mean they have to read.
As for litigating - read the terms and conditions of travel.
A basic simplification is "It's our aeroplane and we can do anything we want".
Hope this helps
Best regards
EWL
I am inclined to think the substitution of JQ for QF would have happened to passengers who had booked pre December, when the service dates of the QF3/4 ops were changed and mixed with JQ. At the time passengers who booked with humans were given the option of swapping to the nearest date with QF metal or remaining on the QF codeshare on the JQ metal. This was generally without compensation as most of the fares at that stage were fairly close to the regular JQ levels (opening specials notwithstanding of course).
Those who had booked on the web would have received a schedule change notification detailing a QF300 series flight number and modified timings, but would most likely have not twigged the "operated by Jetstar Airways" disclaimer under the flight details. Hence, they would most likely have gone wandering happily to the 'drome only to find an A330 parked where they expected to see a 743 or 763.
The QF codeshare on JQ can actually be sold on a return basis providing one leg is on QF metal as all QF flight numbers through the GDS's. This is done on QF published or nett remit fares.
Assuming the same occurs with web bookings, many would be unaware that they have booked a JQ seat in one direction and that would mean they have to read.
As for litigating - read the terms and conditions of travel.
A basic simplification is "It's our aeroplane and we can do anything we want".
Hope this helps
Best regards
EWL
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Galdian, you get it.
Jetstar started out being sold to QF staff as "protection" from anyone else setting up a LCC, and has ended up as an industrial instrument of GD. I dont however credit him with having this vision all along, it fell in his lap courtesy of the AO trial and subsequent perceived failure. The reality was it was a massive success industrially for the management.
It was the proof the board needed that they could destroy terms and conditions without a fight. Not even a whimper. (Not) Surprisingly it was the current chief pilot who facilitated the shafting, and was subsequently rewarded with a management role for effectively overseeing the end of mainline terms and conditions as we knew them. It all starts to make sense when you look back at how hard he pushed for AO to happen when he ran the union.
EWL already eludes to a blurring of the boundaries between J* and mainline, he also points out that people dont want to fly LCC over any great distance.
Lets project this forward a few years from now. Jetstar international is in trouble, people have decided they dont want to pay for toilet paper on a longhaul flight. The "experiment" fails. Why dont we just do what we did with AO, and paint the aircraft red and white, and leave the people on jetstar pay rates? Surprise surprise!
Jetstar started out being sold to QF staff as "protection" from anyone else setting up a LCC, and has ended up as an industrial instrument of GD. I dont however credit him with having this vision all along, it fell in his lap courtesy of the AO trial and subsequent perceived failure. The reality was it was a massive success industrially for the management.
It was the proof the board needed that they could destroy terms and conditions without a fight. Not even a whimper. (Not) Surprisingly it was the current chief pilot who facilitated the shafting, and was subsequently rewarded with a management role for effectively overseeing the end of mainline terms and conditions as we knew them. It all starts to make sense when you look back at how hard he pushed for AO to happen when he ran the union.
EWL already eludes to a blurring of the boundaries between J* and mainline, he also points out that people dont want to fly LCC over any great distance.
Lets project this forward a few years from now. Jetstar international is in trouble, people have decided they dont want to pay for toilet paper on a longhaul flight. The "experiment" fails. Why dont we just do what we did with AO, and paint the aircraft red and white, and leave the people on jetstar pay rates? Surprise surprise!
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True you only get what you pay for. However an associate booked QF from Hawaii & got bumped to J*. This is unacceptable for an airline to do unless the sister carrier has an equivalent service class. As for bogans travelling, the gripe I have is the dress & conduct. On even a 90min trip no one should have to sit beside someone in stubbies, singlets & thongs.Last time I paxed a team of these sat beside & behind me, all had BO, garlic breath. I for one don't like sitting shoulder to shoulder with a sweaty singet wearing BO ridden passenger. Ettiquette is about common sense.
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"i think star class is the equivalent of most other airlines economy class..."
topend3 -
How many airlines offer 2-3-2 on A330's with 5-7" more pitch than international standard? For economy class, as you say?
topend3 -
How many airlines offer 2-3-2 on A330's with 5-7" more pitch than international standard? For economy class, as you say?
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Here is another example for you good PPRuNers.
Booking made by me today for one of our high spend corporates - QF Platinum frantic flappers too. Comparing Garuda Executive to JQ Star Class there was a difference of $40.00, after I added a $50.00 service fee but the difference was the same down the back with no addons like food and amenities for the couples son who must eat cake if he wants to go.
Now the son gets full service and ice cold Bintang while mum and dad enjoy the J class service in the pointy end, and full if confused backup and accommodation if the aeroplane falls over, or protection onto another carrier on an FIM if it is a terminal take it to the shed fault.
It was really a no-brainer what they were going to choose. The Garuda lounges are interesting but absolutely fine and have all the amenities you need.
The Ryan Air formula may be dragging them in on short/medium haul domestic for now but is losing a lot on the translation to medium haul international. People who fly regularly are shying away and it is going to take a huge culture shift to make it any different.
I think Elroy is on the right track with the "failed experiment" theory and revert to mainline on JQ pay and contract labour. Sort of a velvet bulldozer compared to the Abeles/Hawke consortium restructure of yesteryear.
Taking the LCC formula which is firmly established with narrowbody equipment with varying degrees of success worldwide into widebody is either stupid, very clever or totally devious with more hidden agendas than a Labor Caucus.
There must be more to this.
I am sure this is going to bite us all on the butt in the short term, whichever way it drops.
In the interim, always check the full service alternatives. Also read all the stuff that is thrown up in front of you on a web-booked fare as there is more than likely something that you have missed, like being advised you have been booked onto a LCC codeshare.
Or, consult a professional that issues tickets in-house and knows what they are doing, just like you but working in a different field of knowledge.
Best regards all
EWL
Booking made by me today for one of our high spend corporates - QF Platinum frantic flappers too. Comparing Garuda Executive to JQ Star Class there was a difference of $40.00, after I added a $50.00 service fee but the difference was the same down the back with no addons like food and amenities for the couples son who must eat cake if he wants to go.
Now the son gets full service and ice cold Bintang while mum and dad enjoy the J class service in the pointy end, and full if confused backup and accommodation if the aeroplane falls over, or protection onto another carrier on an FIM if it is a terminal take it to the shed fault.
It was really a no-brainer what they were going to choose. The Garuda lounges are interesting but absolutely fine and have all the amenities you need.
The Ryan Air formula may be dragging them in on short/medium haul domestic for now but is losing a lot on the translation to medium haul international. People who fly regularly are shying away and it is going to take a huge culture shift to make it any different.
I think Elroy is on the right track with the "failed experiment" theory and revert to mainline on JQ pay and contract labour. Sort of a velvet bulldozer compared to the Abeles/Hawke consortium restructure of yesteryear.
Taking the LCC formula which is firmly established with narrowbody equipment with varying degrees of success worldwide into widebody is either stupid, very clever or totally devious with more hidden agendas than a Labor Caucus.
There must be more to this.
I am sure this is going to bite us all on the butt in the short term, whichever way it drops.
In the interim, always check the full service alternatives. Also read all the stuff that is thrown up in front of you on a web-booked fare as there is more than likely something that you have missed, like being advised you have been booked onto a LCC codeshare.
Or, consult a professional that issues tickets in-house and knows what they are doing, just like you but working in a different field of knowledge.
Best regards all
EWL
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EWL
For a guy that works out of Tasmania you seem to do an awful lot of booking for professional surfers - and hanging around in a supposed Professional Pilot's web site.
You also have a one track mind in pushing Garuda as a carrier.
What gives????
For a guy that works out of Tasmania you seem to do an awful lot of booking for professional surfers - and hanging around in a supposed Professional Pilot's web site.
You also have a one track mind in pushing Garuda as a carrier.
What gives????
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You also have a one track mind in pushing Garuda as a carrier
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Condition lever
80% of our traffic originates outside of and never touches Tassie. It is mostly high care corporate, and markets my staff and I have developed over the years. They include majore mainframe computer system companies, software companies, Surfing Australia. surf clothing manufacturers, professional surfers, maritime employment agencies and the occasional Devonport RSL patron. We look outside the envelope.
As for Garuda being mentioned several times you may well note that I did include that their landings were generally impacts but I do like them. The airline was simply pertinent to the current discussion as they are in direct competition on a route that is now solely operated by JQ from the QF stable.
To put it in perspective, our office sells over 1.5 million bucks of great white rat a year, and that is my personal chosen carrier. I will fly QFLink and enjoy Club Rat at the airports where it exists.
Last year we again topped all Jetset agencies in Victoria and Tassie for QF plated sales issued in office.
I like many others am just a little worried what is happening to my mates within the airline who help me help them keep a job that is looking more shakey by the day.
As for hanging around in here, if I am not wanted then the Woomeri are most welcome to tell me to bugger off and I will.
If my input is not relevant then I hope I will be told to do so. On the other hand I live in hope that some of the input I provide gives you good Pilots some insight to the realities and spins operating in the industry that directly or indirectly on your career direction.
No, I am not a Pilot and was once a wanabee, then I hit puberty and realised that my eyesight would not have then allowed me to emulate my TAA 727 driver uncle, so went elsewhere. Good luck to you and well done if you have made the grade. It is a tough thing to do.
What gives is that I really care about an industry that is being trashed by greedy management and the only thing I can do is add more information for intelligent minds to digest and act on.
If you feel this in not appropriate, please advise the Woomeri and request that I be barred from comment.
I will abide by such a decision as this is indeed a forum for professional Pilots.
I am not one.
Best regards
EWL
80% of our traffic originates outside of and never touches Tassie. It is mostly high care corporate, and markets my staff and I have developed over the years. They include majore mainframe computer system companies, software companies, Surfing Australia. surf clothing manufacturers, professional surfers, maritime employment agencies and the occasional Devonport RSL patron. We look outside the envelope.
As for Garuda being mentioned several times you may well note that I did include that their landings were generally impacts but I do like them. The airline was simply pertinent to the current discussion as they are in direct competition on a route that is now solely operated by JQ from the QF stable.
To put it in perspective, our office sells over 1.5 million bucks of great white rat a year, and that is my personal chosen carrier. I will fly QFLink and enjoy Club Rat at the airports where it exists.
Last year we again topped all Jetset agencies in Victoria and Tassie for QF plated sales issued in office.
I like many others am just a little worried what is happening to my mates within the airline who help me help them keep a job that is looking more shakey by the day.
As for hanging around in here, if I am not wanted then the Woomeri are most welcome to tell me to bugger off and I will.
If my input is not relevant then I hope I will be told to do so. On the other hand I live in hope that some of the input I provide gives you good Pilots some insight to the realities and spins operating in the industry that directly or indirectly on your career direction.
No, I am not a Pilot and was once a wanabee, then I hit puberty and realised that my eyesight would not have then allowed me to emulate my TAA 727 driver uncle, so went elsewhere. Good luck to you and well done if you have made the grade. It is a tough thing to do.
What gives is that I really care about an industry that is being trashed by greedy management and the only thing I can do is add more information for intelligent minds to digest and act on.
If you feel this in not appropriate, please advise the Woomeri and request that I be barred from comment.
I will abide by such a decision as this is indeed a forum for professional Pilots.
I am not one.
Best regards
EWL
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Condition lever
EWL is, maybe, one of the last people on earth who still view pilots as they really are - distinguished, learned, cultured individuals whose abilities and compassion, not to mention their understated brilliance and inspiration which is only exceeded by their increadible humility, makes one want to, no, actually FORCES one to view them as GOD-like entities (I could go on for hours!) - and you want to have a go at him????
(EWL I have taken liberties however I fail to see how such an erudite and sound individual as yourself could think otherwise.)
EWL has been around for a while, seen many changes and, unlike some, retains a passion for the industry.
I enjoy his input as I, also, still enjoy the industry.
When Ansett went down some 850 pilots lost out - that also means that some 16,000+ OTHER direct employ staff lost out, not to mention a flow on effect to thousands of others.
I trust your comment about the forum was not meant to be as elitist as it came across.
Regards to all.
EWL is, maybe, one of the last people on earth who still view pilots as they really are - distinguished, learned, cultured individuals whose abilities and compassion, not to mention their understated brilliance and inspiration which is only exceeded by their increadible humility, makes one want to, no, actually FORCES one to view them as GOD-like entities (I could go on for hours!) - and you want to have a go at him????
(EWL I have taken liberties however I fail to see how such an erudite and sound individual as yourself could think otherwise.)
EWL has been around for a while, seen many changes and, unlike some, retains a passion for the industry.
I enjoy his input as I, also, still enjoy the industry.
When Ansett went down some 850 pilots lost out - that also means that some 16,000+ OTHER direct employ staff lost out, not to mention a flow on effect to thousands of others.
I trust your comment about the forum was not meant to be as elitist as it came across.
Regards to all.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: australia
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Well I am amazed
In the time it took me to post EWL has posted (as well as BA lert) and I reckon EWL won game, set and match.
Much of the previous is (now) somewhat reduntant.
Oh well, to quote another well known Australian - "such is life."
Regards to all.
In the time it took me to post EWL has posted (as well as BA lert) and I reckon EWL won game, set and match.
Much of the previous is (now) somewhat reduntant.
Oh well, to quote another well known Australian - "such is life."
Regards to all.
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Devonport Tasmania Australia
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Your call was more than correct as to my mindset galdian, however I also have the respect of many of your bretheren who deal with me by choice for my knowledge base and alleged integrity. My best shot is my only shot.
I thank you for falling in behind me in support.
Horses for courses, as this one fell at the first hurdle and went into a different part of a still great industry. Having grown up around hangars with DC4's and 6's in bits and seeing the marvel of VH-TJA making its first arrival at Essendon I have loved every second of it.
I also reckon I was the first 9-10 year old to ever read the entire internal incident report of Julie Alpha's coming together with the CP Air DC8 at Sydney where he wiped 8 feet off the Douglas' fin.
I still marvel at the brilliance that allowed Jimmy James (who was PIC on my first ever flight which happened to be on TJA) to haul the lady up and actually clear all but the fin before V1. Read the incident report and learn everyone. There was a litlte Lancaster pilot in him and many of his time. Kevin Humphris was another, and he could make an F27 look like an Lanc in the way he eased the fully loaded plus a bit girl off the ground and made her look regal through his skill and airmanship.
Why on earth would I not stand in awe of brilliance and things I am not capable of?
It works both ways. I had a lovely lady in the office day before yesterday who had a mum die in Johannesburg just before she arrived in my office. I got her an excellent fare and out the door and onto the Melbourne bugsmasher to connect SQ which was the first available. Just luck there was one seat available each way in the cheapest class. Meant to be. She said that she could not believe I had done what I had done at the price and so expeditiously and that I was amazing. In this case it was pure arse.
Perception is everything. The lady is a surgeon at the local Hospital. Hello? I am a rock ape compared to a surgeon!
Galdian, you and your mates please carry on being the best in the world at doing what you do best, and I if allowed will feed in some bits and pieces that may help, remembering the DJ Jungle Jets rumour started with me. The old travel fart has an excellent network!
Between all of us we may just retain an industry.
THAT is the biggie. Retain ourselves and something we love.
Best regards galdian, CL and everyone.
If I get kicked, so be it but I am better for my time here with you guys and girls.
EWL
I thank you for falling in behind me in support.
Horses for courses, as this one fell at the first hurdle and went into a different part of a still great industry. Having grown up around hangars with DC4's and 6's in bits and seeing the marvel of VH-TJA making its first arrival at Essendon I have loved every second of it.
I also reckon I was the first 9-10 year old to ever read the entire internal incident report of Julie Alpha's coming together with the CP Air DC8 at Sydney where he wiped 8 feet off the Douglas' fin.
I still marvel at the brilliance that allowed Jimmy James (who was PIC on my first ever flight which happened to be on TJA) to haul the lady up and actually clear all but the fin before V1. Read the incident report and learn everyone. There was a litlte Lancaster pilot in him and many of his time. Kevin Humphris was another, and he could make an F27 look like an Lanc in the way he eased the fully loaded plus a bit girl off the ground and made her look regal through his skill and airmanship.
Why on earth would I not stand in awe of brilliance and things I am not capable of?
It works both ways. I had a lovely lady in the office day before yesterday who had a mum die in Johannesburg just before she arrived in my office. I got her an excellent fare and out the door and onto the Melbourne bugsmasher to connect SQ which was the first available. Just luck there was one seat available each way in the cheapest class. Meant to be. She said that she could not believe I had done what I had done at the price and so expeditiously and that I was amazing. In this case it was pure arse.
Perception is everything. The lady is a surgeon at the local Hospital. Hello? I am a rock ape compared to a surgeon!
Galdian, you and your mates please carry on being the best in the world at doing what you do best, and I if allowed will feed in some bits and pieces that may help, remembering the DJ Jungle Jets rumour started with me. The old travel fart has an excellent network!
Between all of us we may just retain an industry.
THAT is the biggie. Retain ourselves and something we love.
Best regards galdian, CL and everyone.
If I get kicked, so be it but I am better for my time here with you guys and girls.
EWL
