The Pilot Shortage is coming!!!
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I'll be convinced when the pay levels improve. If they were really short they would be offering more than than the current starting salaries, especially to live in Sydney town. The going rates for regional pilots is crap when you compare it to the wages being received by workers outside of the aviation industry. Check the career section of any paper, it will make you weep. Call centres are offering $45k+ for a standard 38 hour week. A supervisor can make $60k - $75k in the same industry. If they were getting really short, wouldn't they be offering more bucks?
Geeeze! Richie,
Flies in the face of logic doesn't it.
Apparently the reason for advertising outside of staff CV is to be able to get a better appreciation of candidates by having them produce their own CV's and Resume's, rather than the sterile fill in the box method currently used! Sounds a bit thin?
As for more money, I reckon they'll be parking aeroplanes before management get the message, and even then they probably wont allow themselves to face it.
I think their conventional wisdom is that no matter what they pay, you will still not be able to compete with the larger jet operator, so why offer anything? That may be true in some instances, but we are now seeing people depart, (Very experienced, very senior and very settled) for what they believe are greener pastures.
Hell, I've even thought of it, and I actually love my job! The reality of course is that It just doesn't pay enough, especially living in Sydney.
The introduction of a reasonable incentive bonus would probably encourage many (self included) to stay on.
The developements over the coming year, and the answers to these vexing questions will be very interesting.
Flies in the face of logic doesn't it.
Apparently the reason for advertising outside of staff CV is to be able to get a better appreciation of candidates by having them produce their own CV's and Resume's, rather than the sterile fill in the box method currently used! Sounds a bit thin?
As for more money, I reckon they'll be parking aeroplanes before management get the message, and even then they probably wont allow themselves to face it.
I think their conventional wisdom is that no matter what they pay, you will still not be able to compete with the larger jet operator, so why offer anything? That may be true in some instances, but we are now seeing people depart, (Very experienced, very senior and very settled) for what they believe are greener pastures.
Hell, I've even thought of it, and I actually love my job! The reality of course is that It just doesn't pay enough, especially living in Sydney.
The introduction of a reasonable incentive bonus would probably encourage many (self included) to stay on.
The developements over the coming year, and the answers to these vexing questions will be very interesting.
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Military Order: pay to keep staff
by Geoffrey Barker
Key Points
Deeply concerned by resignations of skilled tradesmen and technicians, Defense Minister Brendon Nelson is understood to have told the navy, army and air force chiefs that it is cheaper to offer premium to hold key people that to try to recruit new ones.
While he is not giving the service chiefs a blank cheque, he has made it clear that on a case-by-case basis he wants them to find out what pay conditions and postings would ensure key personal stay.
His move come as federal cabinet was signing off on the first $20 billion-plus defense budget, which will contain substantial new funds to hold key personal.
Dr Nelson has acknowledged that the present defense budget even with a guaranteed 3 per cent real annual increase to 2016, will not be sufficient to pay for the new weapons systems and cover rising costs.
He has called proposed forward expenditure "minimalist" and said the public could expect the government to make provision for extra expenditure - as it has done for the C-17 heavy transport aircraft and the $6 billion Super Hornet jet fighter acquisitions.
But his immediate concern is the retention of key defense staff who are being lured away from the military life by higher salaries and better conditions offered by a booming private sector desperate for skilled tradesmen and technicians.
Of particular concern are pilots who are regularly lured away by civilian aviation companies, and key personnel required to operate Australia's Collins-class submarines. It is understood that Collins-class submarine sea-days had to be cut by up to 30 per cent due to crew shortages.
While Dr Nelson is confident the army will be able to recruit sufficient personnel to fill two extra infantry battalions, he is understood to be concerned about its ability to retain engineering plant operators, construction supervisors and certain tradespeople.
Earlier this week he announced the army had started to pay soldiers two types of retention bonuses as part of a $1 billion retention and recruitment initiative included in last years budget.
He said the bonuses were targeted financial incentives to employment groups and to individual soldiers with high-value skills required for the hardened and networked army and enhanced land initiatives.
One set of bonuses to be offered this year and next year, provides an initial retention payment of $10,000 followed by bonuses of $30,000 for three years additional service for selected ranks. Some 5000 army personnel are potentially eligible this year and 1600 will be next year. Further to these, retention bonuses of up to $25,000 for two years additional service will be offered this year to 380 army personnel in designated critical employment categories.
Dr Nelson has said retention bonuses will be worth $193.5 million over the next seven years and that they will be used as short-term measures until other reforms are in place.
by Geoffrey Barker
Key Points
- The government is prepared to offer retention bonuses to key military servicemen and woman
- Pilots, who are regularity lured away by civilian aviation companies, are a particular concern.
Deeply concerned by resignations of skilled tradesmen and technicians, Defense Minister Brendon Nelson is understood to have told the navy, army and air force chiefs that it is cheaper to offer premium to hold key people that to try to recruit new ones.
While he is not giving the service chiefs a blank cheque, he has made it clear that on a case-by-case basis he wants them to find out what pay conditions and postings would ensure key personal stay.
His move come as federal cabinet was signing off on the first $20 billion-plus defense budget, which will contain substantial new funds to hold key personal.
Dr Nelson has acknowledged that the present defense budget even with a guaranteed 3 per cent real annual increase to 2016, will not be sufficient to pay for the new weapons systems and cover rising costs.
He has called proposed forward expenditure "minimalist" and said the public could expect the government to make provision for extra expenditure - as it has done for the C-17 heavy transport aircraft and the $6 billion Super Hornet jet fighter acquisitions.
But his immediate concern is the retention of key defense staff who are being lured away from the military life by higher salaries and better conditions offered by a booming private sector desperate for skilled tradesmen and technicians.
Of particular concern are pilots who are regularly lured away by civilian aviation companies, and key personnel required to operate Australia's Collins-class submarines. It is understood that Collins-class submarine sea-days had to be cut by up to 30 per cent due to crew shortages.
While Dr Nelson is confident the army will be able to recruit sufficient personnel to fill two extra infantry battalions, he is understood to be concerned about its ability to retain engineering plant operators, construction supervisors and certain tradespeople.
Earlier this week he announced the army had started to pay soldiers two types of retention bonuses as part of a $1 billion retention and recruitment initiative included in last years budget.
He said the bonuses were targeted financial incentives to employment groups and to individual soldiers with high-value skills required for the hardened and networked army and enhanced land initiatives.
One set of bonuses to be offered this year and next year, provides an initial retention payment of $10,000 followed by bonuses of $30,000 for three years additional service for selected ranks. Some 5000 army personnel are potentially eligible this year and 1600 will be next year. Further to these, retention bonuses of up to $25,000 for two years additional service will be offered this year to 380 army personnel in designated critical employment categories.
Dr Nelson has said retention bonuses will be worth $193.5 million over the next seven years and that they will be used as short-term measures until other reforms are in place.
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All those job ads on AFAP and none of them even summarise the salary pack.
Why would anybody waste their time enquiring and submitting up-to-date apps without the employer advertising a competitive package as other industries do?
These aviation employers need to wake up!
Why would anybody waste their time enquiring and submitting up-to-date apps without the employer advertising a competitive package as other industries do?
These aviation employers need to wake up!
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3rd time lucky!
From today’s Australian
and this
and of course REX’s first advert of many to come.
Any pilots out there………………......……hello…………….....…………echo
I love the ‘Due to continuing business expansion’ bit followed by very low (in retrospect) minimums for DE Capts. I’m afraid most of the regional operators will be lucky to keep operating at their current size let alone expand due to insufficient crew.
And some still think there is no sign of a pilot shortage.
PEL-AIR
Pel-Air a subsidiary of Rex is a charter operator with bases in Cairns, Mackay, Rockhampton, Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Darwin.
We are looking for Captains and First Officers for bases across the country with current instrument ratings, Medicals and Dangerous goods.
Brasilia Captains Total Time 2500hours
- Brisbane based Multi Command 500 hours
Metro 111 Captains Turbine 500 hours
- Melbourne based 3 IFR Renewals
Westwind Captains Current medical
- Darwin / Sydney based Current Dangers Goods Certificate
Pel-Air a subsidiary of Rex is a charter operator with bases in Cairns, Mackay, Rockhampton, Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Darwin.
We are looking for Captains and First Officers for bases across the country with current instrument ratings, Medicals and Dangerous goods.
Brasilia Captains Total Time 2500hours
- Brisbane based Multi Command 500 hours
Metro 111 Captains Turbine 500 hours
- Melbourne based 3 IFR Renewals
Westwind Captains Current medical
- Darwin / Sydney based Current Dangers Goods Certificate
****** AIRLINES - CAPTAINS - METRO 23
****** Airlines is a leading Australian regional airline based in sunny Queensland. ****** operated a fleet of turboprop aircraft, servicing over 40 destinations through Queensland for a large range of clients.
Due to continuing business expansion, ****** Airlines is seeking applications from the following suitably qualified pilots:
· Minimum 2000, 500 ME PIC and 100 hours night
· Dangerous Goods awareness
· ATPL
****** Airlines is a leading Australian regional airline based in sunny Queensland. ****** operated a fleet of turboprop aircraft, servicing over 40 destinations through Queensland for a large range of clients.
Due to continuing business expansion, ****** Airlines is seeking applications from the following suitably qualified pilots:
· Minimum 2000, 500 ME PIC and 100 hours night
· Dangerous Goods awareness
· ATPL
Any pilots out there………………......……hello…………….....…………echo
I love the ‘Due to continuing business expansion’ bit followed by very low (in retrospect) minimums for DE Capts. I’m afraid most of the regional operators will be lucky to keep operating at their current size let alone expand due to insufficient crew.
And some still think there is no sign of a pilot shortage.
Sprucegoose
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At last count no less than 8 turbine jobs advertised today on the AFAP website, lots of opportunity there, the chief pilot job in Brissy sounds good, well if only it wasn't in Brissy!
Sprucegoose
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Was just thinking about that, I reckon the pay will go up in the turboprop/regional sector first.
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I can't talk for everybody, but if it does I would certainly consider it, and I'm sure more would stay. I know it is probably not financially viable for most operators to increase everyones salary, but it would probably give more stability in the HR area. Just a thought.
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Companies will go to massive lengths to keep from improving pilots T & C's. I believe that the great majority of the management types out their look at the current "difficulties" that they have getting and retainging pilots as a cyclical occurence. Therefore they will do everything they can to keep the conditions low so that when the swing comes back around they still have a lower cost base.
The problem with that mindset is that you may go under in the process as that swing may not come back for 10 years. The old chestnut "paying you more still won't stop you leaving us to go fly a jet, therefore we won't" has finally reached it's use by date and will be the sword by which the bosses will do themselves in on.
It's a sad state of affairs but by no means a new one. I just wonder how long the old mentality can last before businesses start losing work due to having parked aeroplanes.
The problem with that mindset is that you may go under in the process as that swing may not come back for 10 years. The old chestnut "paying you more still won't stop you leaving us to go fly a jet, therefore we won't" has finally reached it's use by date and will be the sword by which the bosses will do themselves in on.
It's a sad state of affairs but by no means a new one. I just wonder how long the old mentality can last before businesses start losing work due to having parked aeroplanes.
Ref + 10,
Absolutely spot on!
The resistance that I have seen in successive managements over the years is truely breathtaking.
The faces at the top come and go, but the almost manic resistance to offer improved T&C's remain. I've seen them jack up the ticket price to compensate for almost anything you can think of, except the wellbeing of their staff.
I've sat across the table from them on past ocassions, laid out the logic, even reminded them of their moral obligation, and often all that I got were blank stares!
We are faced with people that are truely unable to relate to their staff.
For many it will not hit them untill it is too late.
It doesn't make sense!
Absolutely spot on!
The resistance that I have seen in successive managements over the years is truely breathtaking.
The faces at the top come and go, but the almost manic resistance to offer improved T&C's remain. I've seen them jack up the ticket price to compensate for almost anything you can think of, except the wellbeing of their staff.
I've sat across the table from them on past ocassions, laid out the logic, even reminded them of their moral obligation, and often all that I got were blank stares!
We are faced with people that are truely unable to relate to their staff.
For many it will not hit them untill it is too late.
It doesn't make sense!
sir.pratt,
Command for Metro 23 I believe. Certainly not a toy, If you are infereing these mins are too high!
14 years ago, the company I worked for required 1000 hours multi-command to fly a baron on bank runs.
Times are a change'n.
Command for Metro 23 I believe. Certainly not a toy, If you are infereing these mins are too high!
14 years ago, the company I worked for required 1000 hours multi-command to fly a baron on bank runs.
Times are a change'n.
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Jet jobs advertised in Oz
See Cobham are advertising for B717 & BA 146 pilots wow times must be a changing finally! But I wont believe a shortage is here until pay for endorsement ends!
"No not a toy, a flying sausage"
Ok MUNT, I'll Bite,
Many years ago I asked my then employer what the rational was behind such high mins for some of the twin jobs around, including ours. I'll never forget her answer.
"It's not the fact that you need all those hours to efficiently fly the beast. It's that after that level of exposure to that sort of commercial ops, you've probably made a s#*tload of mistakes at someone else's expense, and having survived the experience, are unlikely to make the same mistakes with us."
That my friend is the real measure of experience.
Whilst we had these high mins, the Brisbane based operator associated with us operated Metro's. In their ranks were quite a few young guns that enjoyed some very rapid sucession. And good luck to them. One of them a very nice chap, all of 22, and by all accounts a very skillful operator, made some poor operation decisions one day and flew his metro straight into a hill at over 200kts!
I have over 2,000 hours on Metro 23's MUNT, and your statement only highlights some of the problems that face our industry today.
Ok MUNT, I'll Bite,
Many years ago I asked my then employer what the rational was behind such high mins for some of the twin jobs around, including ours. I'll never forget her answer.
"It's not the fact that you need all those hours to efficiently fly the beast. It's that after that level of exposure to that sort of commercial ops, you've probably made a s#*tload of mistakes at someone else's expense, and having survived the experience, are unlikely to make the same mistakes with us."
That my friend is the real measure of experience.
Whilst we had these high mins, the Brisbane based operator associated with us operated Metro's. In their ranks were quite a few young guns that enjoyed some very rapid sucession. And good luck to them. One of them a very nice chap, all of 22, and by all accounts a very skillful operator, made some poor operation decisions one day and flew his metro straight into a hill at over 200kts!
I have over 2,000 hours on Metro 23's MUNT, and your statement only highlights some of the problems that face our industry today.
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"It's not the fact that you need all those hours to efficiently fly the beast. It's that after that level of exposure to that sort of commercial ops, you've probably made a s#*tload of mistakes at someone else's expense, and having survived the experience, are unlikely to make the same mistakes with us."
That my friend is the real measure of experience.
That my friend is the real measure of experience.
I have over 2,000 hours on Metro 23's MUNT
, and your statement only highlights some of the problems that face our industry today
Try flying a Metro single pilot in bad weather from Brisbane to Bankstown, NDB let down to minimum get visual and land on a wet runway in a gusting crosswind. BK is not particularly long were Metros are concerned
On arrival you are informed that there has been a breakdown and you have to fly to Adelaide via Melbourne. Client wants the available payload now as freight has to meet connecting flights and what you can't take needs to go as well.
Get wx/notams, file flight plan by yourself in the middle of the night.
Depart for ML enroute, unforcast fog at destination. Just get visual, aircraft behind does missed approach and diverts.
Enroute to AD autopilot quits, spend the next hour hand flying and trying to stay awake. Luckily weather is good, arrive at 5.00am. Arrange maintenance and put the aircraft to bed. Get to sleep around 6.00am.
That's why they have minimums like these because of the situations you will find yourself in and the consequences of any mistakes. The operation is time critical and you have very little support.
BTW I know an A320 Captain with 3500 TOTAL time, he's a long way short of the 5000hrs required for a Bandit job in PNG with some of the operators up there.
On arrival you are informed that there has been a breakdown and you have to fly to Adelaide via Melbourne. Client wants the available payload now as freight has to meet connecting flights and what you can't take needs to go as well.
Get wx/notams, file flight plan by yourself in the middle of the night.
Depart for ML enroute, unforcast fog at destination. Just get visual, aircraft behind does missed approach and diverts.
Enroute to AD autopilot quits, spend the next hour hand flying and trying to stay awake. Luckily weather is good, arrive at 5.00am. Arrange maintenance and put the aircraft to bed. Get to sleep around 6.00am.
That's why they have minimums like these because of the situations you will find yourself in and the consequences of any mistakes. The operation is time critical and you have very little support.
BTW I know an A320 Captain with 3500 TOTAL time, he's a long way short of the 5000hrs required for a Bandit job in PNG with some of the operators up there.