Jetstar gets CNS-SIN
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Jetstar Spin
The following gobbledygook is from Jetstar's release on their foray into the Singapore-Darwin-Cairns market.
WTF are they trying to say? As, on their own admission, Jetstar will be operating to a similar schedule to Qantas, how is the Jetstar position optimised because of a Sinagpore based aircraft?
“The schedule times for the new Jetstar services will remain similar to those operated currently by Qantas on the route resulting in the maintenance of connections with Qantas international services between Singapore and Europe.
“Leveraging a Singapore based aircraft also provides an optimum schedule, including a daily product for greater ease of transit with other services from Singapore.”
“Leveraging a Singapore based aircraft also provides an optimum schedule, including a daily product for greater ease of transit with other services from Singapore.”
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The Aircon system in flight is actually heating the cabin, to counteract the temp outside of the aircraft which could be down to -60 deg C. So by setting the temp lower would infact reduce the load on the A/C. However as the environmental control system maintains a certain amount of flow, this flow would not change and there would be no change in bleed air use. So the end result is no change in fuel use.
.You are certainly correct as to this comment.
the environmental control system maintains a certain amount of flow, this flow would not change (at least in response to a temperature change demand) and there would be no change in bleed air use.
I could also add that the crew makes the demand for temperature, and temperature demand in an Air Cycle Airconditioning system has little relevance on fuel consumption on the engines from which that temperature is derived.
K
Last edited by Kanga767; 18th Sep 2006 at 00:49. Reason: remove ancillary comment
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Turbulence over Qantas switch to Jetstar service
Mon "Melbourne Age"
Turbulence over Qantas switch to Jetstar service Rod Myer
September 18, 2006
QANTAS' move to substitute its company brand Boeing 767 services with Jetstar's A320 aircraft on the Cairns-Darwin-Singapore service would boost weekly capacity on the route by around 10 per cent, or 115 seats, according to Qantas operations chief John Borghetti.
The substitution might anger low-cost competitor Tiger Air, which had vigorously opposed Qantas' request to Australian regulators to allow co-operation between the airline and Orangestar group from Singapore.
Orangestar, partly owned by Qantas, is the parent of Valuair and Jetstar Asia.
Australian regulators gave Qantas the go-ahead on co-operation last week.
The agreement allows the two groups to share infrastructure, marketing and sales facilities, and to co-operate on prices in Asia.
Tiger Air, partly owned by Singapore Airlines, is a major competitor on the Darwin-Singapore route and the substitution of the five weekly Qantas flights with Jetstar will provide more direct competition.
The carrier is now turning its attention to lobbying in Singapore, where the local competition regulator must still decide on the Qantas-Orangestar co-operation issue.
Qantas' move is part of its strategy to shift as much tourist traffic as possible on to the low-cost carrier. Jetstar's costs are up to 40 per cent below Qantas-branded flights.
Qantas will, however, codeshare with Jetstar on the Cairns-Darwin-Singapore route.
People paying Qantas prices on Jetstar planes will be served meals, will earn frequent flyer points, and will be able to transfer luggage for connecting flights.
Qantas said it would continue to fly a number of its branded services out of Darwin, mainly to Alice Springs or state capitals.
=============================================
Turbulence over Qantas switch to Jetstar service Rod Myer
September 18, 2006
QANTAS' move to substitute its company brand Boeing 767 services with Jetstar's A320 aircraft on the Cairns-Darwin-Singapore service would boost weekly capacity on the route by around 10 per cent, or 115 seats, according to Qantas operations chief John Borghetti.
The substitution might anger low-cost competitor Tiger Air, which had vigorously opposed Qantas' request to Australian regulators to allow co-operation between the airline and Orangestar group from Singapore.
Orangestar, partly owned by Qantas, is the parent of Valuair and Jetstar Asia.
Australian regulators gave Qantas the go-ahead on co-operation last week.
The agreement allows the two groups to share infrastructure, marketing and sales facilities, and to co-operate on prices in Asia.
Tiger Air, partly owned by Singapore Airlines, is a major competitor on the Darwin-Singapore route and the substitution of the five weekly Qantas flights with Jetstar will provide more direct competition.
The carrier is now turning its attention to lobbying in Singapore, where the local competition regulator must still decide on the Qantas-Orangestar co-operation issue.
Qantas' move is part of its strategy to shift as much tourist traffic as possible on to the low-cost carrier. Jetstar's costs are up to 40 per cent below Qantas-branded flights.
Qantas will, however, codeshare with Jetstar on the Cairns-Darwin-Singapore route.
People paying Qantas prices on Jetstar planes will be served meals, will earn frequent flyer points, and will be able to transfer luggage for connecting flights.
Qantas said it would continue to fly a number of its branded services out of Darwin, mainly to Alice Springs or state capitals.
=============================================
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question..."how is the Jetstar position optimised because of a Sinagpore based aircraft?"
Thats an easy one,it's because the J*Asia aircraft are doing either very little and sitting on the ground or operating with only a handful of pax and so it is very much optimised by filling it up and operating it on a positive revenue sector for the first time since it was purchased ...
Not to mention freeing up a QF/AO 767 to use somewhere else....
The poor J* Asia cabin crew will probably have the first full pax loads of their careers as well
Thats an easy one,it's because the J*Asia aircraft are doing either very little and sitting on the ground or operating with only a handful of pax and so it is very much optimised by filling it up and operating it on a positive revenue sector for the first time since it was purchased ...
Not to mention freeing up a QF/AO 767 to use somewhere else....
The poor J* Asia cabin crew will probably have the first full pax loads of their careers as well
Traffic Rights
If Jetstar Asia operate this route, doesn't that mean that the DRW-CNS portion of the service would be considered as a cabotage sector?
ie. As a 'foreign' carrier operating a domestic sector Jetstar Asia would not have the traffic rights to pick up a CNS passenger a take them just to DRW. Other foreign carriers have tried for years to utilise their domestic legs to generate a bit of extra revenue, but apart from special circumstances (eg AN collapse) they have not been permitted to uplift domestic passengers. Or is it all just a wet-lease where Jetstar (Aust) is the operator and is just leasing the aircraft and crew?
Is this allowed on a ongoing basis? I thought that if say QF 'borrowed' a BA aircraft for say 6 months that it would have to go onto the Aussie register for the duration of its stay and be flown by Aussie crews, then would go back to a UK reg when it returned to BA.
ie. As a 'foreign' carrier operating a domestic sector Jetstar Asia would not have the traffic rights to pick up a CNS passenger a take them just to DRW. Other foreign carriers have tried for years to utilise their domestic legs to generate a bit of extra revenue, but apart from special circumstances (eg AN collapse) they have not been permitted to uplift domestic passengers. Or is it all just a wet-lease where Jetstar (Aust) is the operator and is just leasing the aircraft and crew?
Is this allowed on a ongoing basis? I thought that if say QF 'borrowed' a BA aircraft for say 6 months that it would have to go onto the Aussie register for the duration of its stay and be flown by Aussie crews, then would go back to a UK reg when it returned to BA.
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From DirectAnywhere....
"Not for long once the punters realise what they're getting for their dough."
Imagine flying from the Uk or FRA on QF then transferring onto J* Asia and asking for a blanket...."Will you be paying cash or using a credit card"
Darth probably owns or has an interest in the company making the blankets and pillows....Scrooge McDarth strikes unwary travellers once again
"Not for long once the punters realise what they're getting for their dough."
Imagine flying from the Uk or FRA on QF then transferring onto J* Asia and asking for a blanket...."Will you be paying cash or using a credit card"
Darth probably owns or has an interest in the company making the blankets and pillows....Scrooge McDarth strikes unwary travellers once again
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"People paying Qantas prices on Jetstar planes will be served meals, will earn frequent flyer points, and will be able to transfer luggage for connecting flights."
Lowerlobe, Ultralight and Direct Anywhere -
Read the statement above, which has been mentioned twice in this thread.
That would mean there is to be little difference in the two products. Except maybe legroom but has anyone been on a QF 737? There is no difference to JQ.
"the great irony is the new catchphrase of JQ... jetstar.. offering you Choice! what choice?"
The whole point of this tagline is that in almost all cases your fare is cheaper - hence you choose what extras you wish to pay for - or bring yourself (heaven forbid people look out for their own welfare these days).
I am the last person who would be waving the Jetstar flag, however lets not let emotions distort the facts.
Where is Qantas going with all this? Will we see a Cityflyer SYD/MEL flight operated by JetstarAsia crew for Jetstar as a welease to Qantas? How far will this go? It is sickening and frightening to contemplate.
"Anyone know if SQ have got rights on this route?"
SQ gave up on DRW and CNS a LONG time ago! Silk Air would do fine as a full service competitor, though they have only ever ops charters to DRW. Their sister company Tiger Airways is a cheaper operation anyway.
Lowerlobe, Ultralight and Direct Anywhere -
Read the statement above, which has been mentioned twice in this thread.
That would mean there is to be little difference in the two products. Except maybe legroom but has anyone been on a QF 737? There is no difference to JQ.
"the great irony is the new catchphrase of JQ... jetstar.. offering you Choice! what choice?"
The whole point of this tagline is that in almost all cases your fare is cheaper - hence you choose what extras you wish to pay for - or bring yourself (heaven forbid people look out for their own welfare these days).
I am the last person who would be waving the Jetstar flag, however lets not let emotions distort the facts.
Where is Qantas going with all this? Will we see a Cityflyer SYD/MEL flight operated by JetstarAsia crew for Jetstar as a welease to Qantas? How far will this go? It is sickening and frightening to contemplate.
"Anyone know if SQ have got rights on this route?"
SQ gave up on DRW and CNS a LONG time ago! Silk Air would do fine as a full service competitor, though they have only ever ops charters to DRW. Their sister company Tiger Airways is a cheaper operation anyway.
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Ditzy, I think Silkair looked at those routes in late 2001 and for whatever reason decided not to give it a go.
DirectAnywhere - After a certain amount of time, when EK, SQ and others capture enough of the higher yeilding passenger, we will see Jetstar reduce and red tail jets reappear on the same route, albeit at the cost base of Jetstar or AO.
DirectAnywhere - After a certain amount of time, when EK, SQ and others capture enough of the higher yeilding passenger, we will see Jetstar reduce and red tail jets reappear on the same route, albeit at the cost base of Jetstar or AO.
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Ditzyboy,
I appreciate what your saying but imagine a full J* Asia aircraft and half are QF pax ,the other J* pax.
Will they have a blanket ,pillow and meal not to forget a free drink for those QF pax and what about a movie.From the UK or FRA to SIN they have had IFE ,now at least on a 767 they have a movie screen .Now however they will either be given (unlikely) a portable VOD or will have to pay for one if they want to watch a movie.
I would like to know how they will organise the meal service...
Ahhh 24 A you can have beef or chicken and would you like a beer or wine with your meal...24 B No sorry you are a J* pax sorry you have to pay if your hungry.
Also on QF services in Y/C we serve a hot chocolate service after the meal ,will you have a pax list to make sure only QF pax get a free hot chocolate...This has disaster written all over it...
I'm not trying to bag J* but just pointing out some of the problems that QF pax will be faced with not to mention the crew.Up to now some pax have been dirty after flying for 80% of the way with an IFE aircraft then having to change onto a 767 with just the occasional movie screen ,now they won't even get that.
I appreciate what your saying but imagine a full J* Asia aircraft and half are QF pax ,the other J* pax.
Will they have a blanket ,pillow and meal not to forget a free drink for those QF pax and what about a movie.From the UK or FRA to SIN they have had IFE ,now at least on a 767 they have a movie screen .Now however they will either be given (unlikely) a portable VOD or will have to pay for one if they want to watch a movie.
I would like to know how they will organise the meal service...
Ahhh 24 A you can have beef or chicken and would you like a beer or wine with your meal...24 B No sorry you are a J* pax sorry you have to pay if your hungry.
Also on QF services in Y/C we serve a hot chocolate service after the meal ,will you have a pax list to make sure only QF pax get a free hot chocolate...This has disaster written all over it...
I'm not trying to bag J* but just pointing out some of the problems that QF pax will be faced with not to mention the crew.Up to now some pax have been dirty after flying for 80% of the way with an IFE aircraft then having to change onto a 767 with just the occasional movie screen ,now they won't even get that.
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If one buys the $7 'comfort kit', does one get to keep the blanket and/or pillow or are they rented for the duration of the flight and surrendered on its conclusion? The answer is unclear in the Jetstar spin documentation.
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The punters must be very confused - 6 months will have seen AO , QF and JQ all operate the CNS-DRW-SIN route.
Who on earth is making these decisions ? Seriously ???? The AO and QF 767 flights were always FULL. How could they have not been making money ?
Bring SQ back to CNS direct 3 times a week in a 777-200 !! That will stir the pot !!
Who on earth is making these decisions ? Seriously ???? The AO and QF 767 flights were always FULL. How could they have not been making money ?
Bring SQ back to CNS direct 3 times a week in a 777-200 !! That will stir the pot !!
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Sonique wrote ....The AO and QF 767 flights were always FULL. How could they have not been making money ? .....
1. a very confused market, and
2. more profit or a smaller loss.
The "Planning Department" Space Cadets at Qantas HQ have either convinced their masters that this is really the way to go or told them that this is the way to go as this is what they wanted to hear.
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DA and Lowerlobe -
Agreed and agreed... Though I am sure it will be managed to some extent by crew in making up for management's lack of thought and direction - no different to most QF flights, hey?!
Don't you dream of a flight WITHOUT hot chocolate and apples? I know I do!
Seriously though some/most British charter airlines have done a similar service for at least five years now whereby only pax who purchase a meal at time of ticketing are served one onboard. Think of it just like delivering the SPMLs... Alot of them! Not sure if they carry spares to flog off some more? Britannia even sell ice creams!
BALert -
As far as pillows and blankets... AC is/was charging for them on all North American flights and they are not reclaimed by the airline. Some sort of whizzbang material. The pillow is blow up though. I think JQ domestic is selling blankets now?
The gap between Jetstar and QF is narrowing at an alarming rate lately.
Agreed and agreed... Though I am sure it will be managed to some extent by crew in making up for management's lack of thought and direction - no different to most QF flights, hey?!
Don't you dream of a flight WITHOUT hot chocolate and apples? I know I do!
Seriously though some/most British charter airlines have done a similar service for at least five years now whereby only pax who purchase a meal at time of ticketing are served one onboard. Think of it just like delivering the SPMLs... Alot of them! Not sure if they carry spares to flog off some more? Britannia even sell ice creams!
BALert -
As far as pillows and blankets... AC is/was charging for them on all North American flights and they are not reclaimed by the airline. Some sort of whizzbang material. The pillow is blow up though. I think JQ domestic is selling blankets now?
The gap between Jetstar and QF is narrowing at an alarming rate lately.
Exactly DA!
Put any kind of competition on the route and watch the punters go for the quality product!
Mind you if someone else did fly the route QF would probably pull the pin like they have for years leaving the market for others to cash in on.
Customers will love coming all the way from Europe then switch to a JQ A320 to Cairns via Darwin. That will keep them coming back!
Someone in QF must try thinking about something novel like product positioning!
Put any kind of competition on the route and watch the punters go for the quality product!
Mind you if someone else did fly the route QF would probably pull the pin like they have for years leaving the market for others to cash in on.
Customers will love coming all the way from Europe then switch to a JQ A320 to Cairns via Darwin. That will keep them coming back!
Someone in QF must try thinking about something novel like product positioning!
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FRom DitzyBoy......Though I am sure it will be managed to some extent by crew in making up for management's lack of thought and direction - no different to most QF flights, hey?!
and this...
The gap between Jetstar and QF is narrowing at an alarming rate lately.
Your right on your first point,crew have always had to improvise for a multitude of problems but.......
If you have had a QF Y/C flight to BKK and then look at a J* Long Haul flight to the same and you will see a huge difference even if J* are moving into the new millenium with allocated seating.
This is all well if you are pushing a LCC but the cost difference between QF and published normal Scrooge Air services are not that much and in some cases more expensive with GD's idea of affordable travel mark IV.
In other words Geoffs idea of Low Cost Carrier is not that it is cheap for the punters but cheap for him to provide
and this...
The gap between Jetstar and QF is narrowing at an alarming rate lately.
Your right on your first point,crew have always had to improvise for a multitude of problems but.......
If you have had a QF Y/C flight to BKK and then look at a J* Long Haul flight to the same and you will see a huge difference even if J* are moving into the new millenium with allocated seating.
This is all well if you are pushing a LCC but the cost difference between QF and published normal Scrooge Air services are not that much and in some cases more expensive with GD's idea of affordable travel mark IV.
In other words Geoffs idea of Low Cost Carrier is not that it is cheap for the punters but cheap for him to provide
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You would think the fares would be significantly cheaper but they're not.
Considering JQ made $11 million PBT last financial they need to increase their margin considerably. Particularly after awarding Carat Asia Pacific a $10 million advertising contract this need to increase revenue is paramount.
Considering JQ made $11 million PBT last financial they need to increase their margin considerably. Particularly after awarding Carat Asia Pacific a $10 million advertising contract this need to increase revenue is paramount.
This might explain the allocation of the CNS run with no effective competition ie. guaranteed revenue to boost up the bottom line.
Last edited by Wingspar; 19th Sep 2006 at 02:36. Reason: spelling