An Australian Dream Shattered
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An Australian Dream Shattered
AN AUSTRALIAN DREAM SHATTERED
As crew would be aware we are getting very good media coverage of our continuing dispute with Qantas.
We have become aware that the ABC program “7.30 Report” will do a feature story on Thursday 21 October on our issues.
If you are at home you may wish to watch this program.
ALSO,
FAAA has just released information that our Thai crew are being given 2 days training (5 weeks for Oz crew) in how to be a CSM, so they can cover during possible strike action.
How many Cpts, FO's would be willing to go with a CSM who has received only 2 days training?
As crew would be aware we are getting very good media coverage of our continuing dispute with Qantas.
We have become aware that the ABC program “7.30 Report” will do a feature story on Thursday 21 October on our issues.
If you are at home you may wish to watch this program.
ALSO,
FAAA has just released information that our Thai crew are being given 2 days training (5 weeks for Oz crew) in how to be a CSM, so they can cover during possible strike action.
How many Cpts, FO's would be willing to go with a CSM who has received only 2 days training?
Last edited by str; 20th Oct 2004 at 05:32.
STR - You may even find that a CSM is NOT actually required for dispatch.
It is not that uncommon for an aeroplane to depart sans CSM due to illness or just plain insufficient CSMs available with a CSS or even just plain the most senior FA driving the ship (or at least that part of it behind the flight deck door).
So 2 days training could even be considered a luxury!
It is not that uncommon for an aeroplane to depart sans CSM due to illness or just plain insufficient CSMs available with a CSS or even just plain the most senior FA driving the ship (or at least that part of it behind the flight deck door).
So 2 days training could even be considered a luxury!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Probably to "appease" CASA, and as a result of these comments from another post.
QANTAS faces further checks of its flight attendant training after allegations in an internal email that controversial fixed-term flight attendants are being bulldozed through emergency procedures training.
".....if there is a strike we were told that we would not be flying with professional flight attendants? We “strike-breakers” would fly together and how dangerous does that sound. We were told that we could be working in all areas – first class, business and economy. Personally if I were a passenger who paid for a first class ticket I would expect first class service, not a person who has minimal training of only eleven days."
A name change in the offing?
QANTHAIS
"Let NOTHING, and NO-ONE, stand in the way of Geoff's BONUS!"
QANTAS faces further checks of its flight attendant training after allegations in an internal email that controversial fixed-term flight attendants are being bulldozed through emergency procedures training.
".....if there is a strike we were told that we would not be flying with professional flight attendants? We “strike-breakers” would fly together and how dangerous does that sound. We were told that we could be working in all areas – first class, business and economy. Personally if I were a passenger who paid for a first class ticket I would expect first class service, not a person who has minimal training of only eleven days."
A name change in the offing?
QANTHAIS
"Let NOTHING, and NO-ONE, stand in the way of Geoff's BONUS!"
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I would like to comment on the Title of the Thread, nothing more. It seems to have evolved out of another thread that refers to an individual's letter of application to a particular union.
There are no "Shattered Dreams" in Aviation. Those who are determined enough will reflect on such situations at a later time as "Setbacks".
and I should know.
K
There are no "Shattered Dreams" in Aviation. Those who are determined enough will reflect on such situations at a later time as "Setbacks".
and I should know.
K
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I think the dream that was shattered was one of believing that QF management had morals and a code of ethics.
Well it looks like they don't, and that they are seeking like-minded personnel for 3 month fixed term contracts.
The Chief Chook.
Well it looks like they don't, and that they are seeking like-minded personnel for 3 month fixed term contracts.
The Chief Chook.
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Left2primary
That happens with the fully trained ones too! 
I think what I was getting at, is that CA training is regulated by CASA (I assume) via the company Ops Manual, and I would be very surprised if two days training met any regulatory requirement. Unless of course the crews in question were experienced CAs before joining the big white rat, in which case panic and confusion shouldn't be an issue!
a door fired off in panic and confusion due to inexperience is an accident.
I think what I was getting at, is that CA training is regulated by CASA (I assume) via the company Ops Manual, and I would be very surprised if two days training met any regulatory requirement. Unless of course the crews in question were experienced CAs before joining the big white rat, in which case panic and confusion shouldn't be an issue!
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"Personally if I were a passenger who paid for a first class ticket I would expect first class service, not a person who has minimal training of only eleven days."
But Kaptin - what if this first class passenger just actually wanted to get from point A to point B, not be held ransom by a group i.e. just get the damn plane off the ground so I can get to where I want to go??
But Kaptin - what if this first class passenger just actually wanted to get from point A to point B, not be held ransom by a group i.e. just get the damn plane off the ground so I can get to where I want to go??
Last edited by FBD; 20th Oct 2004 at 20:56.
A door being fired is an incident, not an accident. (QF1 incident not accident
)
As to the CSM thing, I have been on flights out of Perth where the most senior F/A (not even a CSS) was CSM for a 3 day trip and she had only been in the company two years, and it worked ok. Suprisingly
didn't see CSM in the DDG.
As to EPs training I get scared watching F/As who have done the job for years fumble around the trainer, and get so worrked up over upcoming EPs days. E.P's study is done in the car on the way to EPs which basically consist of looking at my impact drill. If I have to be told how long a 1.5kg BCF last again, I will cry.
As to possible strike action, I think there is no way that the flight attendants can win the PR war, which is all important. The public will get the ****s when they find out that after a six-twelve week course that an off the street person is able to earn 70k+ and is complaining. They will have more people than they already do lining up to get a start for less dollars.
SNAFU out.
) As to the CSM thing, I have been on flights out of Perth where the most senior F/A (not even a CSS) was CSM for a 3 day trip and she had only been in the company two years, and it worked ok. Suprisingly
didn't see CSM in the DDG.As to EPs training I get scared watching F/As who have done the job for years fumble around the trainer, and get so worrked up over upcoming EPs days. E.P's study is done in the car on the way to EPs which basically consist of looking at my impact drill. If I have to be told how long a 1.5kg BCF last again, I will cry.
As to possible strike action, I think there is no way that the flight attendants can win the PR war, which is all important. The public will get the ****s when they find out that after a six-twelve week course that an off the street person is able to earn 70k+ and is complaining. They will have more people than they already do lining up to get a start for less dollars.
SNAFU out.
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"Personally if I were a passenger who paid for a first class ticket I would expect first class service, not a person who has minimal training of only eleven days."
a door fired off in panic and confusion due to inexperience is an accident.
Str,
And apparently 50K for junior crew is a rip off??? You need to get into the real world to see what the majority earn for working far more hours, WITH FAR GREATER QUALIFICATIONS.
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=20601
Good luck with your little strike. As Capt_SNAFU mentioned earlier, when the public realise just how OVERPAID you are, for providing them with no service, you won't have public sympathy on your side.....
And apparently 50K for junior crew is a rip off??? You need to get into the real world to see what the majority earn for working far more hours, WITH FAR GREATER QUALIFICATIONS.
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=20601
Good luck with your little strike. As Capt_SNAFU mentioned earlier, when the public realise just how OVERPAID you are, for providing them with no service, you won't have public sympathy on your side.....
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mmmmmmbop,
Is not $50 000 PA now the average wage in Australia?
$60 000 PA was described in one of the papers the other day as "moderate".
How much would you be happy for me to earn ?
L2P
Is not $50 000 PA now the average wage in Australia?
$60 000 PA was described in one of the papers the other day as "moderate".
How much would you be happy for me to earn ?
L2P
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Im and average passenger and to be honest it doesnt worry me if its the local check out chick from coles on for a day as long as she is a genuine happy go lucky person .
I can find my own way onto the plane ,find my own seat.
Must admit someone has to turn the movie on and i like the snack pack delivered but thats no big deal.
Safety training is the issue but surely to hell that wouldnt take long.I dont know.As long as someone opens the doors,then im happy.The rest is up to crowd panic and crowd control and until it happens then know one knows.
The average wage around 50g-----yes,correct.
There are some big $ earners out their but the majority of folks still only earn 30-35g.
Bit like reading the average sex life is once a week(actually longer i think).Then their must be a bloody lot getting it once a year
I can find my own way onto the plane ,find my own seat.
Must admit someone has to turn the movie on and i like the snack pack delivered but thats no big deal.
Safety training is the issue but surely to hell that wouldnt take long.I dont know.As long as someone opens the doors,then im happy.The rest is up to crowd panic and crowd control and until it happens then know one knows.
The average wage around 50g-----yes,correct.
There are some big $ earners out their but the majority of folks still only earn 30-35g.
Bit like reading the average sex life is once a week(actually longer i think).Then their must be a bloody lot getting it once a year
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cptsnafa,
whats a DDG?
The coming industrial dispute is about the FAAA's fight to prevent hundreds of Australian jobs being exported offshore in Qantas's attempt to boost executive bonuses and its already record bottom line.
IMHO the general public's opinion of these important social, political and economic issues wont be subject to your example of anti FA bias.
L2P
whats a DDG?
The coming industrial dispute is about the FAAA's fight to prevent hundreds of Australian jobs being exported offshore in Qantas's attempt to boost executive bonuses and its already record bottom line.
IMHO the general public's opinion of these important social, political and economic issues wont be subject to your example of anti FA bias.
L2P
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Salaries paid to professions and trades requiring minimum four years training:
Average annual professional starting salary:
Architect: $26,000
Social Sciences: $35,000
Education: $39,700
Dentistry: $55,000
Medicine: $45,000
Law: $39,480
Nursing: $35,000
Computer Science: $38,000
Average Trade salary:
Mech Engineering: $63,024
LAME: $51,638
Mechanic: $32,864
Electrician: $43,420
Communications Trades: $48,620
Plumber: $45,240
Woomera
Average annual professional starting salary:
Architect: $26,000
Social Sciences: $35,000
Education: $39,700
Dentistry: $55,000
Medicine: $45,000
Law: $39,480
Nursing: $35,000
Computer Science: $38,000
Average Trade salary:
Mech Engineering: $63,024
LAME: $51,638
Mechanic: $32,864
Electrician: $43,420
Communications Trades: $48,620
Plumber: $45,240
Woomera
Woomera has beaten me to it but -
From the ABS 19/12/2003 : the average individual annual wage and salary income for wage and salary earners in New South Wales was $37,191. Adjusted to 2004 figures (census data is old by the time its released) this equates to -$40,225.
This is, of course, the AVERAGE. The High Income Earners disproportianately inflate this figure, despite accounting for less than 20% of the workforce. The MEDIAN figure would be lower than the Average figure.
After reading the figures that Woomera posted you still think that you deserve in excess of $70k a year, I think we all then realise why GD and QF are taking you down the path they are.
Without realising it, you have stumbled onto the gem....-
the operative word here is highlighted. If you actually provided $70,000 worth of service to the company, they would probably happily pay it. As I said before, if you think you do - after reading the average salaries - well then......
This really does paint the truest example of just how much you over rate your position in the company. If you are indeed Left 2 Primary, you would know exactly what a DDG is.
It is always interesting to debate something with someone who provides no facts, but replies purely emotively.
From the ABS 19/12/2003 : the average individual annual wage and salary income for wage and salary earners in New South Wales was $37,191. Adjusted to 2004 figures (census data is old by the time its released) this equates to -$40,225.
This is, of course, the AVERAGE. The High Income Earners disproportianately inflate this figure, despite accounting for less than 20% of the workforce. The MEDIAN figure would be lower than the Average figure.
After reading the figures that Woomera posted you still think that you deserve in excess of $70k a year, I think we all then realise why GD and QF are taking you down the path they are.
Without realising it, you have stumbled onto the gem....-
How much would you be happy for me to earn ?
whats a DDG?
It is always interesting to debate something with someone who provides no facts, but replies purely emotively.
Last edited by mmmbop; 21st Oct 2004 at 04:50.
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Of course Qantas will employ people in overseas bases, it costs a hell of a lot less than using people in Australia. Just take a look at every other industry around you. There is an ever growing number of companies prepared to use overseas labour, why should'nt Qantas?
I'm afraid the old argument that these people are incompetent or poorly trained won't hold up. Don't get me wrong, F/A's do fullfill an important safety role but it's not rocket science. Standing up and telling people how incredibly clever you are and that no one else could do the job as well as you will simply p#ss people off!
I'm afraid the old argument that these people are incompetent or poorly trained won't hold up. Don't get me wrong, F/A's do fullfill an important safety role but it's not rocket science. Standing up and telling people how incredibly clever you are and that no one else could do the job as well as you will simply p#ss people off!