Song and dance over 'ageist' Virgin
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Australia's safety regulation has enough checks and balances to ensure that nobody I fly with is going to fall out of the sky
IMO, the airline companies will do the MINIMUM they are required to do (read spend $$$'s) to comply with the safety rules imposed upon them.
Air crew recruited were basically, for pilots - the most experienced for age, with a reliable employment history, whom they believed (through interviews and tests) would fit in with the 2/3 crew concept.
And for the F/A's - the most presentable, who could represent the company hundreds of times per hour per day, endure physically demanding work (walking kilometres in an O2 reduced environment), and prove once every 13 months that they could execute the necessary minimum safety knowledge.
Okay, that's the abbreviated version, but nonetheless the "guts" of it!!
Yes, I find the DJ cabin crew schtick embarrassing,
Personally, I believe it's a little bit of the "Olde Country" conservatism coming out in you (which surprises me
), and is evident in many Australians....a "shyness" perhaps, rather than the extrovert, rah rah type behaviour we associate with Americans (for example).Yet a common quip from Brits visiting Oz (and even from Kiwis) is how much more like the USA, Australia and Australians are, than the U.K.
Ralph's rant again highlights the "conservativeness" in the Australian psyche when he wrote,"He then invited the lucky pasenger to participate in the safety demo, which derided the whole safety point of the excercise."
Even from my Oz perspective, but as a pilot interested in promoting Safety, I personally believe that this was a very POSITIVE action the F/A took, in involving the pax in a very important safety issue.
Good on him
So is it possible that VB are pushing us further down the (extroverted) American road vs the (conservative) British one?
Are we being forced out, from underneath our rock?
It's amazing how uninhibited a little bit of alcohol can make us (or give us an excuse to let our hair down a bit), isn't it?
And just as we can become the serious conservative again, once the party is over, I'll BET the VB crew have a personality that will DEMAND you follow their orders in any non-normal situation!
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Kaptin M, I'll leave it to others to decide whether or not my post regarding VB was a rant. As for your comment that I was "off the mark" regarding selection of airline staff and their potential contribution to safety culture, you are historically incorrect. In regards to cabin crew alone, many airlines in the US were ONLY recruiting applicants who were qualified nurses as far back as the 1930s'. This was not a regulatory requirement, it was an initiative brought about by the companies off their own bat.
My comments about VB noted? By who? By VB? What are they going to do? Not offer me a job? Send a hit-man? Who cares? I am very happy where I am and have far better prospects for the future than what VB could offer. I note that you aren't working there either. There are much better options than Virgin for experienced crew, aren't there?
As for being conservative in my approach to flying, I make not appology for this. I also expect my co-workers in the industry to be conservative in their attitudes towards work. If you are a pilot interested in safety, good on you; so am I. Involving pax in saftey demos whilst making jokes is not conducive to effectively communicating the content of the briefing. I doubt that many pax could take in what they were being told as the Purser/Senior/Whatever was too busy acting the clown and making people laugh.
Incidently M, postings on Jet Blast are not meant to be taken entirely seriously. That's what it's there for. Funny how many people agreed with what I said tho. Including you on occasion. The thread was commenced at a low point in my life when I felt like venting some steam. As for calling me mysogynist, who is it that has an inflight magazine entitled 'Voyeur'?
RTA, I would say that the vast majority of ex-AN people don't hold DJ responsible for ANs' downfall. I am certainly not one of them and I cant recall speaking with anyone who expressed such an opinion. I understand that VB has built up a huge mythology based around Ansett, its staff and the reasons for its downfall. None of what I have heard in this regard is very accurate.
My comments about VB noted? By who? By VB? What are they going to do? Not offer me a job? Send a hit-man? Who cares? I am very happy where I am and have far better prospects for the future than what VB could offer. I note that you aren't working there either. There are much better options than Virgin for experienced crew, aren't there?
As for being conservative in my approach to flying, I make not appology for this. I also expect my co-workers in the industry to be conservative in their attitudes towards work. If you are a pilot interested in safety, good on you; so am I. Involving pax in saftey demos whilst making jokes is not conducive to effectively communicating the content of the briefing. I doubt that many pax could take in what they were being told as the Purser/Senior/Whatever was too busy acting the clown and making people laugh.
Incidently M, postings on Jet Blast are not meant to be taken entirely seriously. That's what it's there for.
Funny how many people agreed with what I said tho. Including you on occasion. The thread was commenced at a low point in my life when I felt like venting some steam. As for calling me mysogynist, who is it that has an inflight magazine entitled 'Voyeur'? RTA, I would say that the vast majority of ex-AN people don't hold DJ responsible for ANs' downfall. I am certainly not one of them and I cant recall speaking with anyone who expressed such an opinion. I understand that VB has built up a huge mythology based around Ansett, its staff and the reasons for its downfall. None of what I have heard in this regard is very accurate.
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VB management background
Ninja,
A finely crafted little piece of dissembling there.
‘I remember when they were secondhand plane salesmen with less than the best reputation. They also did not start National Jet. A company called National Airlines ran an old G1 freighter out of their offices.’
Just to set the record slightly straighter, one of the people you are referring to had many years in aircraft sales. The other was, for a brief period, employed by the business as a financial controller. National Airlines did run a G1 freighter, and subsequently a B727 freighter out of the same offices, primarily because the management and ownership were essentially the same as that of the sales organisation. National Jet was initially a joint venture between National Airlines and Jet Systems, so it is not inaccurate to describe the owners and employees of National Airlines as being amongst the founders of National Jet. There were some apparent synergies behind the concept, but ultimately the National Airlines holdings were sold to the interests behind Jet Systems. The G1 and B727 operation remained with National Airlines and its successors.
They were interesting times...............................
Absolutely nothing to do with the main topic of the thread of course.
Snooze
A finely crafted little piece of dissembling there.
‘I remember when they were secondhand plane salesmen with less than the best reputation. They also did not start National Jet. A company called National Airlines ran an old G1 freighter out of their offices.’
Just to set the record slightly straighter, one of the people you are referring to had many years in aircraft sales. The other was, for a brief period, employed by the business as a financial controller. National Airlines did run a G1 freighter, and subsequently a B727 freighter out of the same offices, primarily because the management and ownership were essentially the same as that of the sales organisation. National Jet was initially a joint venture between National Airlines and Jet Systems, so it is not inaccurate to describe the owners and employees of National Airlines as being amongst the founders of National Jet. There were some apparent synergies behind the concept, but ultimately the National Airlines holdings were sold to the interests behind Jet Systems. The G1 and B727 operation remained with National Airlines and its successors.
They were interesting times...............................
Absolutely nothing to do with the main topic of the thread of course.
Snooze
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RTA, I would say that the vast majority of ex-AN people don't hold DJ responsible for ANs' downfall
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Capt Snooze, your not wrong abount it being interesting times.
'Non union' americans crewing the 72 with a non rated aussie in the jump seat to moniter (advise) on procedural matters.
CAA SA head on leave submitting applications and gaining approval for Jet ops and all manner of other things from his deputy filling the chair. Oh yes, and the deputy left the CAA for a lucrative position with said company as soon as the ink was dry.
One of the greater untold scandals!
'Non union' americans crewing the 72 with a non rated aussie in the jump seat to moniter (advise) on procedural matters.
CAA SA head on leave submitting applications and gaining approval for Jet ops and all manner of other things from his deputy filling the chair. Oh yes, and the deputy left the CAA for a lucrative position with said company as soon as the ink was dry.
One of the greater untold scandals!
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Kaptin M,
At the risk of boring everybody else, I've asked myself the same question you posed about innate conservativeness, and I too often wonder where it comes from. All I can say is that some things should be treated more conservatively than others and perhaps anything to do with air safety is one of those things. I'm not at all sure I agree with you about the ability of the "let's all have lots of fun" cabin crew when the **** hits the fan.
Regardless, appearances tend to be self-perpetuating, and I have to agree with those who suggest that the shallower the presentation, the less respect the presenter will get when it is really required. Perhaps a grossly unfair generalisation, I grant you.
Your question though has made me think and posed a possible thread in JB. Cheers!
At the risk of boring everybody else, I've asked myself the same question you posed about innate conservativeness, and I too often wonder where it comes from. All I can say is that some things should be treated more conservatively than others and perhaps anything to do with air safety is one of those things. I'm not at all sure I agree with you about the ability of the "let's all have lots of fun" cabin crew when the **** hits the fan.
Regardless, appearances tend to be self-perpetuating, and I have to agree with those who suggest that the shallower the presentation, the less respect the presenter will get when it is really required. Perhaps a grossly unfair generalisation, I grant you.
Your question though has made me think and posed a possible thread in JB. Cheers!
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Agree with Sinala
Of all the ex-AN employees that I could be bothered talking to, MOST, if not 90% hold DJ responsible directly for the downfall of AN.
Not Abeles and Murdoch's ineptitude, greed, and zealousness...
Jedda! Nice to see some culture. Tukhes oyfn tisch. Schweinhundt regards all DJ FA's as shikse, and he needs a good shtup...
Oy vey!
Not Abeles and Murdoch's ineptitude, greed, and zealousness...
Jedda! Nice to see some culture. Tukhes oyfn tisch. Schweinhundt regards all DJ FA's as shikse, and he needs a good shtup...
Oy vey!
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"Most if not 90%"....... HAHAHAHAAAA!!! nice one...
Did you mean "Most (90%), if not all..." ?? Hey just trying to help you with your English comprehension RTA.
I gave you a subtle hint but you were so intent on your yiddish howlings you couldn't see it. Now everyone can. Oh well...
Anyway that bit of "kulcha" you refer to could get one into a lot of trouble. No wonder there's so much strife in the world with clowns like you confusing all the issues and language hang-ups and then blaming it on the other party...
Go to the Yiddish forum and confuse them over there because you obviously can't speak it properly and you're causing trouble around here.
Anyway can you tell us what your tool-ish statements about --most if not 90% of ex blah blah blame who for what-- has to do with this disgraceful discrimination case? Other than that they are both disgraceful???
Let's have less Yiddish crap and more info on how these ladies are doing with their court case. Why do I have to be the one to point this out???
And who is Binoss to "risk boring everyone" else like that??? Very inconsiderate, I say. Still he has his thread-topic for JB. I guess that's what makes some folks' world go round.
Anyway, good to have you back on an even keel (
) again, Beanoss! 
edited to TRY to keep the whinging Yidds happy and also TRY to show RTA why he sounds so much like a bonehead. Halas.
nice one...Did you mean "Most (90%), if not all..." ?? Hey just trying to help you with your English comprehension RTA.
I gave you a subtle hint but you were so intent on your yiddish howlings you couldn't see it. Now everyone can. Oh well...
Anyway that bit of "kulcha" you refer to could get one into a lot of trouble. No wonder there's so much strife in the world with clowns like you confusing all the issues and language hang-ups and then blaming it on the other party...
Go to the Yiddish forum and confuse them over there because you obviously can't speak it properly and you're causing trouble around here.
Anyway can you tell us what your tool-ish statements about --most if not 90% of ex blah blah blame who for what-- has to do with this disgraceful discrimination case? Other than that they are both disgraceful???
Let's have less Yiddish crap and more info on how these ladies are doing with their court case. Why do I have to be the one to point this out???
And who is Binoss to "risk boring everyone" else like that??? Very inconsiderate, I say. Still he has his thread-topic for JB. I guess that's what makes some folks' world go round.
Anyway, good to have you back on an even keel (
) again, Beanoss! edited to TRY to keep the whinging Yidds happy and also TRY to show RTA why he sounds so much like a bonehead. Halas.
Last edited by air-hag; 22nd Aug 2004 at 14:02.
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Oh boy!
Hag,
You don't read and comprehend too well now do you? I said 90% of the AN former employees I KNOW.... that's maybe 14 people or so (I know a lot of others, but they are ghosts - you know what I am referring to). I am not saying 90% of the ENTIRE former AN employees. SHEESH!
Culture. Well, you see, it's not badly mispelt arabic. It's Yiddish. Look it up! You were closer to the mark with your second dribble.
Who are YOU trying to fool is more the question. I am not trying to fool anyone. You obviously have, and have demonstrated that, YOU had NO COMPREHENSION of what was written (on all 3 counts), yet you felt compelled to once again open trap, insert foot, chew the ****e on the bottom of the shoe, then spit out the excrement. Bravo putz!
You don't read and comprehend too well now do you? I said 90% of the AN former employees I KNOW.... that's maybe 14 people or so (I know a lot of others, but they are ghosts - you know what I am referring to). I am not saying 90% of the ENTIRE former AN employees. SHEESH!
Culture. Well, you see, it's not badly mispelt arabic. It's Yiddish. Look it up! You were closer to the mark with your second dribble.
Who are YOU trying to fool is more the question. I am not trying to fool anyone. You obviously have, and have demonstrated that, YOU had NO COMPREHENSION of what was written (on all 3 counts), yet you felt compelled to once again open trap, insert foot, chew the ****e on the bottom of the shoe, then spit out the excrement. Bravo putz!
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I think some posters here have a point. Some employers do have a right choose not to comply with legislation such as anti discrimination legislation. I think Branson should ignore harassment legislation. That way Air Hag and his trolley dolly mincer mates could be called anything various punters wish to call him. Furthermore, the vacuous hosties could be “chatted up”, patted on the bottom and leered at. After all legislation just gets in the way of good business sense.
On another note – I have no doubt discrimination occurs up front (for all airlines) – how many 40 year old boggys do you find?
On another note – I have no doubt discrimination occurs up front (for all airlines) – how many 40 year old boggys do you find?
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How about the American Airline "Hooters"??
What if I applied to them (I am male) and was knocked back - one could presume it was on the basis that I did not have the required "hooters", could I sue them for discrimination?
The fact is, they have a particular product that they want to sell, which clearly I am not suitable for! (although I have been known to put on the odd bra occasionally... just kidding!!! 
)
What if I applied to them (I am male) and was knocked back - one could presume it was on the basis that I did not have the required "hooters", could I sue them for discrimination?
The fact is, they have a particular product that they want to sell, which clearly I am not suitable for! (although I have been known to put on the odd bra occasionally...
just kidding!!! )
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Is a lack of tits included in the list of of Anti-Discrimination provisions? I don't think so. If your man-boobs are big enough you should be alright at Hooters but don't expect much in tips, otherwise don't waste everyone's time.
Meanwhile try reading this regarding your "accidental" confession on wearing a woman's clothing.
No MINCING thanks....
keep it to yourself.
Meanwhile try reading this regarding your "accidental" confession on wearing a woman's clothing.
No MINCING thanks....
keep it to yourself.
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Thanks for that air-hag... an enlightening and thrilling piece of reading that was boundless in its value to me!
Now back to the point. I was making a valid point - Hooters are marketing a particular product - and thus, they should be allowed to employ who is most suitable for their product type...
(And no I dont mince thanks, the man boobs (last time I checked) were still north of the equator (ie waist) and as far as womens clothing goes, well the only interaction I have with it is when I females ask me to remove it from their bodies - but lets get back to the point of the thread hey!!!!!)
(edited for clarity)
Now back to the point. I was making a valid point - Hooters are marketing a particular product - and thus, they should be allowed to employ who is most suitable for their product type...
(And no I dont mince thanks, the man boobs (last time I checked) were still north of the equator (ie waist) and as far as womens clothing goes, well the only interaction I have with it is when I females ask me to remove it from their bodies - but lets get back to the point of the thread hey!!!!!)
(edited for clarity)
Last edited by sinala1; 23rd Aug 2004 at 09:22.
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RTA well the 90% of ex AN employees that you KNOW only represent probably less than 0.001% of ex AN employees.
So do you really think your comments are a true reflection of what ex AN employees (of which I am one) think?
Personally, I don't hold Virgin Blue responsible for AN's demise in any way shape or form. They (VB) are an airline out to make a buck, and unfortunately AN could not compete. End of story.
There is a lot more to AN's fall than VB's entry to the market. Anyone who can't see that is walking around with blinkers on.
SG
Anyway back to the topic...
So do you really think your comments are a true reflection of what ex AN employees (of which I am one) think?
Personally, I don't hold Virgin Blue responsible for AN's demise in any way shape or form. They (VB) are an airline out to make a buck, and unfortunately AN could not compete. End of story.
There is a lot more to AN's fall than VB's entry to the market. Anyone who can't see that is walking around with blinkers on.
SG
Anyway back to the topic...
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Well I can tell ya right now that your small sampling (14) of former AN pilots definitely do not represent the thoughts of the rest of the organisation. An observation it may be, but its results are not indicitive of the true feelings within the company (or ex-company).
Anyway to get back to the original topic.. it is true that VB can hire who they want, when they want, but they DO need to abide by state and federal anti discrimination legislations. So really they need to hire a variety of different kinds of people. It is a shame that VB does not appear to recognise the amazing skills, talents and abilities of those that do not fit the Virgin mold (or is that "mould"? Where's my spell checker) - they may find some hidden gems out there.
Hope the ex-AN crew have a successful resolution.
SG
Anyway to get back to the original topic.. it is true that VB can hire who they want, when they want, but they DO need to abide by state and federal anti discrimination legislations. So really they need to hire a variety of different kinds of people. It is a shame that VB does not appear to recognise the amazing skills, talents and abilities of those that do not fit the Virgin mold (or is that "mould"? Where's my spell checker) - they may find some hidden gems out there.
Hope the ex-AN crew have a successful resolution.
SG
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I can understand the bitterness from former AN staff when some of the Virgin flight attendants were standing around cheering in the AN terminal in BNE in front of AN staff when the company fell over. The QF flight attendants formed a guard of honour for the AN ones. And then there was the former AN staffer who went for an interview at Virgin who was told to make up a song about Ansett's demise and perform it! (He walked out). And weren't there Virgin parties to celebrate the collapse? Is it any some wonder people are bitter?