Qantas admits Arab 'terror' blunder
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AirNoServicesAustralia, In reply to your comments
The difference between Israeli gunship attacks, and Palestinian suicide attacks is The Israelis don't target innocent people!
When you speak of "non-Western countries fight against oppression" if you are suggesting Israel "oppresses" the palestinian people please explain how?
Many Palestinians live in Israel, and are free to do as they please. They are not persecuted in any way, however, if an Israeli even tries to walk down a local street in the palestinian teritory, they are often violently murdered. School's in Israel promote racial tolerance, where as many schools in the Palestinian territory promote violence towards Israelis.
Further, when Jerusalem was under palestinian control, all Jews were forbidden to enter the Temple Mount / Dome of the Rock areas, where as under Israeli rule all religions are free to see all sights in the city.
Considering their military power, I often shudder to think what would happen if the Israelis hated the Palestinians as much as the Palestinians hate the Israelis. (and America, for that matter.)
Who's oppressing who?
The difference between Israeli gunship attacks, and Palestinian suicide attacks is The Israelis don't target innocent people!
When you speak of "non-Western countries fight against oppression" if you are suggesting Israel "oppresses" the palestinian people please explain how?
Many Palestinians live in Israel, and are free to do as they please. They are not persecuted in any way, however, if an Israeli even tries to walk down a local street in the palestinian teritory, they are often violently murdered. School's in Israel promote racial tolerance, where as many schools in the Palestinian territory promote violence towards Israelis.
Further, when Jerusalem was under palestinian control, all Jews were forbidden to enter the Temple Mount / Dome of the Rock areas, where as under Israeli rule all religions are free to see all sights in the city.
Considering their military power, I often shudder to think what would happen if the Israelis hated the Palestinians as much as the Palestinians hate the Israelis. (and America, for that matter.)
Who's oppressing who?
Big Kev
Stern Gang?
Irgun?
USS Liberty?
Sabra and Chatila refugee camps?
Egyptian POWs and the Six Day War?
Assasination of Count Bernadotte?
Bombing of the King David hotel?
Israel was founded by terrorism no matter which side of the fence you sit. I don't hold a view one way or another, the situation is beyond comprehension. In fact, many of Israel's former ruling elite were active terrorists involved in killing British soldiers-aswell as brutal ethnic cleansing!
No answers and not pretending to understand or take sides.
Stern Gang?
Irgun?
USS Liberty?
Sabra and Chatila refugee camps?
Egyptian POWs and the Six Day War?
Assasination of Count Bernadotte?
Bombing of the King David hotel?
Israel was founded by terrorism no matter which side of the fence you sit. I don't hold a view one way or another, the situation is beyond comprehension. In fact, many of Israel's former ruling elite were active terrorists involved in killing British soldiers-aswell as brutal ethnic cleansing!
No answers and not pretending to understand or take sides.
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Hey Capt Claret,
If the weather is such my F/O says " I don't think we should go Skipper".
I am going to consider not departing!!
Or.... We could just ignore the little weed and scowl at him for being so 'conservative'.
Silly, silly F/O! Being so.......conservative!
Bad Analogy!
If the weather is such my F/O says " I don't think we should go Skipper".
I am going to consider not departing!!
Or.... We could just ignore the little weed and scowl at him for being so 'conservative'.
Silly, silly F/O! Being so.......conservative!
Bad Analogy!
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SydGirl, you're not dammed if you do,at least you shouldn't be. The important thing for crew is to speak up if they have doubts. Those doubts should then be acted apon by the Captain through QF security or whoever is incharge of the loading. When you get a reply that says every thing checks out then you have a duty to go, you are paid to go. You need to have confidence in the companies processes and checks that they have in place. If you don't have that confidence then why fly in their jets every day? If you still don't want to go then thats fine, its your choice, but expect a Don't Come Monday letter. Claret if you had quotes from people who were actually there then it wouldn't be a rumour network would it?
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You're right max AB, doubt is positive. All crew should express when they have doubt, this is constantly addressed every time a crewmember attends CRM.
However, I've read these posts several times, and can't see anywhere that the crew still refused to fly even after they were informed these people checked out OK. All I have read is some comments by other PPruner's suggesting this may be the case. I've also read other tripe suggesting these men were wearing Jihad t-shirts and giving nasty looks to the crew! For goodness sakes, let's seperate fact from fiction here.
It is unfair for us to sit back and judge then condemn a crew when really we do not know all of the facts. Personally, I am proud of the crew for expressing their personal concern - this is exactly what CRM is about.
SG
However, I've read these posts several times, and can't see anywhere that the crew still refused to fly even after they were informed these people checked out OK. All I have read is some comments by other PPruner's suggesting this may be the case. I've also read other tripe suggesting these men were wearing Jihad t-shirts and giving nasty looks to the crew! For goodness sakes, let's seperate fact from fiction here.
It is unfair for us to sit back and judge then condemn a crew when really we do not know all of the facts. Personally, I am proud of the crew for expressing their personal concern - this is exactly what CRM is about.
SG
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Hey Gnadenburg,
"Israel was founded by terrorism no matter which side of the fence you sit."
Incorrect.
Israel was founded because of a United Nations resolution in 1947, in wake of the 6 million Jews killed in WW2,
which recognised the rights of all people regardless of race to live in peace.
Land was bought from the Arabs. (A fact conveniently forgotten nowdays by many leftists)
Arabs were offered instant citizenship, with benefits such as:
The right to vote
The right to free speech
The right to run for political office
The right to run a business without having to pay protection money
The right to not have to join the military
Arab women having equal rights to Arab men
The right to marry whomever they want
The right to full economic, social, and civil liberty
All of which they could not do in any other middle eastern country.
The day after it it's foundation, it was attacked by Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq.
And yes, there has been some Israeli terrorism, such as the Stern Gang, and they should be treated exactly the same way as any other terrorist. (In my opinion, eliminated)
P.S. sorry to turn this forum into a bit of a socio-political debate, I'd much rather talk about flying!
"Israel was founded by terrorism no matter which side of the fence you sit."
Incorrect.
Israel was founded because of a United Nations resolution in 1947, in wake of the 6 million Jews killed in WW2,
which recognised the rights of all people regardless of race to live in peace.
Land was bought from the Arabs. (A fact conveniently forgotten nowdays by many leftists)
Arabs were offered instant citizenship, with benefits such as:
The right to vote
The right to free speech
The right to run for political office
The right to run a business without having to pay protection money
The right to not have to join the military
Arab women having equal rights to Arab men
The right to marry whomever they want
The right to full economic, social, and civil liberty
All of which they could not do in any other middle eastern country.
The day after it it's foundation, it was attacked by Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq.
And yes, there has been some Israeli terrorism, such as the Stern Gang, and they should be treated exactly the same way as any other terrorist. (In my opinion, eliminated)
P.S. sorry to turn this forum into a bit of a socio-political debate, I'd much rather talk about flying!
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Here are the facts (I felt obliged, as so far we've got a four page thread without any):
1)Relatively high level military delegation from an Arab country which provided significant support to Australia during recent Gulf deployments.
2)Having visited an Australian flying school, one member of the delegation was wearing a baseball cap advertising same. Additionally, he was a very nervous flyer, and spoke little English. Compounding the problem, he was separated from the rest of his delegation, and the RAAF escort officer. Accordingly, the cabin crew were presented with a nervous, sweating Arab male, wearing a hat advertising a flying school. They made what seems like an understandable leap, and called security, who removed the gentleman from the aircraft.
3)So far, seems reasonable, I think you'd agree. It's what happened next that has caused the problems.
4)After some difficulties related to the language barrier, the Australian escort officer was found with the rest of the delegation and explained the situation to security. He then undertook to brief the Captain and cabin crew on who the individual was - ie an invited official guest of the Australian Government , and a military officer of an allied country.
5)At the completion of the brief, the skipper was satisfied, and decided to depart. At this point, four of the cabin crew indicated that they were still unprepared to fly with this individual on board, and a delay of nearly an hour ensued whilst replacement crew were found.
6)Significant diplomatic fallout has since ensued, which I can't go into here. Suffice to say that the delegation indicated on arrival at their destination that they were considering returning home, as they did not feel welcome in Australia. Representations at the highest level have been made, and (my reading only, I hasten to add), long term damage to our relations seems likely to have occurred.
I find it absolutely appalling that such a situation could be allowed to take place. Certainly, the original circumstances could well have given rise to anxiety on the part of the cabin crew. Indeed, they should probably be commended for their vigilance.
However, what I find mystifying is that once the situation had been explained at great length by an Australian military officer, some members of the crew still refused to get on with doing their jobs. This just reinforces the (no doubt unfair) stereotype of lazy self absorbed QANTAS cabin crew. After all, if the Captain and other senior members of the crew (eg the CSM) were now prepared to get on with it, what further reassurances were considered necessary to convince the others?
A bizarre situation, and a great disappointment to people like me who would like to be able to be proud of the national flag carrier...
Now you can all debate away in full possession of the facts.
SW
1)Relatively high level military delegation from an Arab country which provided significant support to Australia during recent Gulf deployments.
2)Having visited an Australian flying school, one member of the delegation was wearing a baseball cap advertising same. Additionally, he was a very nervous flyer, and spoke little English. Compounding the problem, he was separated from the rest of his delegation, and the RAAF escort officer. Accordingly, the cabin crew were presented with a nervous, sweating Arab male, wearing a hat advertising a flying school. They made what seems like an understandable leap, and called security, who removed the gentleman from the aircraft.
3)So far, seems reasonable, I think you'd agree. It's what happened next that has caused the problems.
4)After some difficulties related to the language barrier, the Australian escort officer was found with the rest of the delegation and explained the situation to security. He then undertook to brief the Captain and cabin crew on who the individual was - ie an invited official guest of the Australian Government , and a military officer of an allied country.
5)At the completion of the brief, the skipper was satisfied, and decided to depart. At this point, four of the cabin crew indicated that they were still unprepared to fly with this individual on board, and a delay of nearly an hour ensued whilst replacement crew were found.
6)Significant diplomatic fallout has since ensued, which I can't go into here. Suffice to say that the delegation indicated on arrival at their destination that they were considering returning home, as they did not feel welcome in Australia. Representations at the highest level have been made, and (my reading only, I hasten to add), long term damage to our relations seems likely to have occurred.
I find it absolutely appalling that such a situation could be allowed to take place. Certainly, the original circumstances could well have given rise to anxiety on the part of the cabin crew. Indeed, they should probably be commended for their vigilance.
However, what I find mystifying is that once the situation had been explained at great length by an Australian military officer, some members of the crew still refused to get on with doing their jobs. This just reinforces the (no doubt unfair) stereotype of lazy self absorbed QANTAS cabin crew. After all, if the Captain and other senior members of the crew (eg the CSM) were now prepared to get on with it, what further reassurances were considered necessary to convince the others?
A bizarre situation, and a great disappointment to people like me who would like to be able to be proud of the national flag carrier...
Now you can all debate away in full possession of the facts.
SW
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.Gnadenburg NOt sure how Israel got dragged into this, but you're wrong here:
Stern Gang? Not part of Israeli army
Irgun? Ditto
USS Liberty? An accident.
Sabra and Chatila refugee camps? Murders committed by Christians against Muslims.
Egyptian POWs and the Six Day War? Um does the Damascus chair mean anything to you? Trust me, it wasn't used on the Egyptians, and their treatment far exceeded int'l standards
Assasination of Count Bernadotte?
Bombing of the King David hotel? A military target, and all were warned to vacate the building.
You ARE taking sides, as evidence by your complete omission of the facts.
Stern Gang? Not part of Israeli army
Irgun? Ditto
USS Liberty? An accident.
Sabra and Chatila refugee camps? Murders committed by Christians against Muslims.
Egyptian POWs and the Six Day War? Um does the Damascus chair mean anything to you? Trust me, it wasn't used on the Egyptians, and their treatment far exceeded int'l standards
Assasination of Count Bernadotte?
Bombing of the King David hotel? A military target, and all were warned to vacate the building.
Israel was founded by terrorism no matter which side of the fence you sit. I don't hold a view one way or another, the situation is beyond comprehension. In fact, many of Israel's former ruling elite were active terrorists involved in killing British soldiers-aswell as brutal ethnic cleansing!No answers and not pretending to understand or take sides.
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There are too many 'do-gooder' Aussies out there. These rag heads are going to use this all against you.
Good on the hosties for thinking that something was up. Imagine the papers the next day if something HAD happened... "Hosties critisised over not taking action when they thought something was up" And if they survived whatever the terrorists where going to do, What then? They would never hear the end of it. Nope, good on them!!
Xplicit
hopefully you'll be one of the rag heads first targets! 
To pinch a line from a neighbour of mine, were you born awit or did you just pay a lot of money to become one?
--------------------------------
Claret - do-gooder and father of two rag heads
To pinch a line from a neighbour of mine, were you born a
wit or did you just pay a lot of money to become one?--------------------------------
Claret - do-gooder and father of two rag heads
SwingWing
Thanks for that info.
May be time to reign in the CRM for Cabin Crew-or perhaps remind them of where they are in the decision making process.
The crew in this case made a call and will now have to account for their decision. The seriousness of the embarrassment to Australia and Qantas should be sobering.
The crew is on the world stage and I hope their decision making process, to walk off the flight, a little more evolved than I didn't like the look of them. Or did they just want to go home?
Big Kev & Bubbette
In 1947 Australia did not know which way to vote on the original UN partition plan. The issues confusing and possibly not even solvable. And Bubbette, like Australia then, not taking sides now.
So....
Stern Gang & Irun-integrated into the IDF post 48! Big Kev former Prime Ministers Begin and Shamir were members of this group you, by your own admission, label as guilty of terrorist ops.
USS Liberty-benefit of the doubt but a few years later IDF Air Defence units were monitored as ordering the shootdown of U2s collecting intelligence along the Sinia.
The slaughter in Lebanon(Sabra & Catila)-OK the Germans overseeing Jewish camps in the Ukraine during WW2 weren't responsible for the actions of foreign camp guards?
The execution on mass of Egyptian officers-it didn't happen Bubbette? Like the Holocaust? And for your info what the hell is the Damascus Chair? I assume you mean the German Chair used in Damascus.
The bombing of the King David Hotel-justifying terrorism are we Bubbette? How would the families of the recent tragedy in Haifa feel if your flippant "military target" sentiments applied to that incident in 20 years or so, by the Arab terrorists?
Count Bernadotte -a UN representitive with a vision of Jerusalem for all, not just an Israeli capital, and was assasinated by either Stern or Irgun.
The populaton of Palestine was about 700,000 in 1922 Big Kev. Most were Arab and a small part-83,000- Jewish. The exodus from Europe to Palestine began in this period-100,000. Countering your suggestion that the Holocaust was the justifiable reason for the mass immigration of European jews to Palestine.
The region a distasteful mess. Not taking sides and my only reservation being Australia has no reason to align itself closely to American-Israeli foreign policy and paying the price that brings.
And to suggest Israel a beacon of Western good manners in the MidEast fanciful.
Thanks for that info.
May be time to reign in the CRM for Cabin Crew-or perhaps remind them of where they are in the decision making process.
The crew in this case made a call and will now have to account for their decision. The seriousness of the embarrassment to Australia and Qantas should be sobering.
The crew is on the world stage and I hope their decision making process, to walk off the flight, a little more evolved than I didn't like the look of them. Or did they just want to go home?
Big Kev & Bubbette
In 1947 Australia did not know which way to vote on the original UN partition plan. The issues confusing and possibly not even solvable. And Bubbette, like Australia then, not taking sides now.
So....
Stern Gang & Irun-integrated into the IDF post 48! Big Kev former Prime Ministers Begin and Shamir were members of this group you, by your own admission, label as guilty of terrorist ops.
USS Liberty-benefit of the doubt but a few years later IDF Air Defence units were monitored as ordering the shootdown of U2s collecting intelligence along the Sinia.
The slaughter in Lebanon(Sabra & Catila)-OK the Germans overseeing Jewish camps in the Ukraine during WW2 weren't responsible for the actions of foreign camp guards?
The execution on mass of Egyptian officers-it didn't happen Bubbette? Like the Holocaust? And for your info what the hell is the Damascus Chair? I assume you mean the German Chair used in Damascus.
The bombing of the King David Hotel-justifying terrorism are we Bubbette? How would the families of the recent tragedy in Haifa feel if your flippant "military target" sentiments applied to that incident in 20 years or so, by the Arab terrorists?
Count Bernadotte -a UN representitive with a vision of Jerusalem for all, not just an Israeli capital, and was assasinated by either Stern or Irgun.
The populaton of Palestine was about 700,000 in 1922 Big Kev. Most were Arab and a small part-83,000- Jewish. The exodus from Europe to Palestine began in this period-100,000. Countering your suggestion that the Holocaust was the justifiable reason for the mass immigration of European jews to Palestine.
The region a distasteful mess. Not taking sides and my only reservation being Australia has no reason to align itself closely to American-Israeli foreign policy and paying the price that brings.
And to suggest Israel a beacon of Western good manners in the MidEast fanciful.
Swounger
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Gnadenburg --what are you talking about? Israel is a democracy; Arabs have their only free elections in the whole mid-east and there is due process for all. What exactly is not Western about this?
And yes G:
there was no slaughter of Egyptians
King David hotel: A military HQ, where they were warned to leave.
Sabra and Shatilla--can't fathom Arabs murdering Arabs? Why not?
The Jews built up the land--the Arabs then moved there.* The land has always been historically Jewish---not Arab.
You ought to stop getting your history from revisionists Gnad.
*It is not surprising then that the British census data produce an Arab Palestinian population growth for 1922-31 that turns out to be generated by natural increase and legal migrations alone. Applying a 2.5 per annum growth rate[30] to a population stock of 589,177 for 1922 generates a 1931 population estimate of 735,799 or 97.6 percent of the 753,822 recorded in the 1931 census. Does the imputation model then "prove" that illegal immigration into Palestine was inconsequential during 1922-31? Not at all. A footnote accompanying the census's population time series acknowledges the presence in Palestine of illegal Arab immigration. But because it could not be recorded, no estimate of its numbers was included in the census count.[31] Ignoring illegal migrants does not mean they don't exist.
Setting illegal immigration into Palestine aside, the imputation model does generate substantial migrations of Arab Palestinians within Palestine itself and confirms what many demographers, historians, government administrators, and economists have alluded to: the migration of Arab Palestinians from villages, towns, and cities of low economic opportunity to villages, towns, and cities of higher economic opportunity.
Which towns, villages, and cities offered the higher economic opportunity? Analyzing the 1922 and 1931 demographic data by sub-district and separating those sub-districts of Palestine that eventually became 1948 Israel—that is, sub-districts that had relatively large Jewish populations (with accompanying Jewish capital and modern technology)—from those that were not designated as part of 1948 Israel, identified not only the direction of Arab Palestinian migration within Palestine but its magnitude as well.[32] http://www.meforum.org/article/522Gnardenburg
And yes G:
there was no slaughter of Egyptians
King David hotel: A military HQ, where they were warned to leave.
Sabra and Shatilla--can't fathom Arabs murdering Arabs? Why not?
The Jews built up the land--the Arabs then moved there.* The land has always been historically Jewish---not Arab.
You ought to stop getting your history from revisionists Gnad.
*It is not surprising then that the British census data produce an Arab Palestinian population growth for 1922-31 that turns out to be generated by natural increase and legal migrations alone. Applying a 2.5 per annum growth rate[30] to a population stock of 589,177 for 1922 generates a 1931 population estimate of 735,799 or 97.6 percent of the 753,822 recorded in the 1931 census. Does the imputation model then "prove" that illegal immigration into Palestine was inconsequential during 1922-31? Not at all. A footnote accompanying the census's population time series acknowledges the presence in Palestine of illegal Arab immigration. But because it could not be recorded, no estimate of its numbers was included in the census count.[31] Ignoring illegal migrants does not mean they don't exist.
Setting illegal immigration into Palestine aside, the imputation model does generate substantial migrations of Arab Palestinians within Palestine itself and confirms what many demographers, historians, government administrators, and economists have alluded to: the migration of Arab Palestinians from villages, towns, and cities of low economic opportunity to villages, towns, and cities of higher economic opportunity.
Which towns, villages, and cities offered the higher economic opportunity? Analyzing the 1922 and 1931 demographic data by sub-district and separating those sub-districts of Palestine that eventually became 1948 Israel—that is, sub-districts that had relatively large Jewish populations (with accompanying Jewish capital and modern technology)—from those that were not designated as part of 1948 Israel, identified not only the direction of Arab Palestinian migration within Palestine but its magnitude as well.[32] http://www.meforum.org/article/522Gnardenburg
Bubbette
I opened the Old Testament tonight and noted where you get your borders from.
Back to the main topic and I sure hope the Qantas Crew haven't damaged our live export trade to the MidEast.
I opened the Old Testament tonight and noted where you get your borders from.
Back to the main topic and I sure hope the Qantas Crew haven't damaged our live export trade to the MidEast.
Nunc est bibendum
Saw on CNN a few weeks back that the USS Liberty wasn't an accident. Now I don't believe EVERYTHING I hear or see on CNN but this one seemed to be kosher! ( 
)
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One of Nietzsches pronouncements seems relative here. That is that there can be no absolute truth, merely many "truths," which are the tools of various groups, classes or forces.
I think, Gnadenburg that any impartial view of the situation between the Jew and the Arab could only conclude that each is as bad as the other.
I think, Gnadenburg that any impartial view of the situation between the Jew and the Arab could only conclude that each is as bad as the other.
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Gnadenburg, what's your point?
Arafat is a terrorist, and the man he succeeded, the Grand Mufti who led the palestinian arabs had several meetings and a close relationship with Hitler and the Nazis during WW2. (As their goal was and still is one the same: to wipe out the Jews.)
Nothing justifies terrorism, from anyone.
It is no coincidence that Hitler's biography 'Mein Kampf' has been one of the best selling books in the palestinian territory.
"To suggest Israel a beacon of Western good manners in the MidEast fanciful." - I think not, Israel is the only country in the middle east you never see people celebrating on mass, and dancing in the streets after terrorist attacks.
Israel has offered Arafat everything he asked for more than once, and they didn't take it.
Hamas has also officially said that they will continue their suicide attacks even if Israel pulls out of the occupied territory.
Israel and the Palestinians are not "as bad as each other."
If the Palestinians wanted piece, they'd have it.
Arafat is a terrorist, and the man he succeeded, the Grand Mufti who led the palestinian arabs had several meetings and a close relationship with Hitler and the Nazis during WW2. (As their goal was and still is one the same: to wipe out the Jews.)
Nothing justifies terrorism, from anyone.
It is no coincidence that Hitler's biography 'Mein Kampf' has been one of the best selling books in the palestinian territory.
"To suggest Israel a beacon of Western good manners in the MidEast fanciful." - I think not, Israel is the only country in the middle east you never see people celebrating on mass, and dancing in the streets after terrorist attacks.
Israel has offered Arafat everything he asked for more than once, and they didn't take it.
Hamas has also officially said that they will continue their suicide attacks even if Israel pulls out of the occupied territory.
Israel and the Palestinians are not "as bad as each other."
If the Palestinians wanted piece, they'd have it.
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Israel is the only country in the middle east you never see people celebrating on mass, and dancing in the streets after terrorist attacks.
I have never said the Palestinian groups such as Hamas are not terrorists and there is no denying Arafats background in terrorism, but to his credit he went along way to solving the crisis along with Rabin, before Israelis against peace assasinated Rabin.
Israel has offered Arafat everything he asked for more than once, and they didn't take it.
If the Palestinians wanted piece, they'd have it.
By the way its spelt Hitler
Big Kev
Where you aware of possible Stern Gang attempts in 1940 to corroborate with Nazi Germany in return for support in the creation of a Jewish State?
You must remember that Jewish freedom fighters (terrorists?) were killing British soldiers and politicians at the time. Were these machinations and each way bet by Stern and Irgun?
What's my point?
I think that our conservative nature quickly aligns us with Israel through what is a western media perspective.
Form an opinion, have a Western bias(I do) but do be aware and not ignorant of the brutal and not so black and white past of Israel.
Death in Jerusalem a good read as is Stern Gang.
And for Bubbette's perspective just open the Old Testament.
Spotlight
I concur but I do have a slight Western bias.
Where you aware of possible Stern Gang attempts in 1940 to corroborate with Nazi Germany in return for support in the creation of a Jewish State?
You must remember that Jewish freedom fighters (terrorists?) were killing British soldiers and politicians at the time. Were these machinations and each way bet by Stern and Irgun?
What's my point?
I think that our conservative nature quickly aligns us with Israel through what is a western media perspective.
Form an opinion, have a Western bias(I do) but do be aware and not ignorant of the brutal and not so black and white past of Israel.
Death in Jerusalem a good read as is Stern Gang.
And for Bubbette's perspective just open the Old Testament.
Spotlight
I concur but I do have a slight Western bias.
Swounger
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Despite the Arabs not being Aryan, they were and have been one of Hitler's great supporters---this is not news--pick up a history book.
Um, I don't think you saw this at all. Care to elaborate what you actually saw? There are many parades throughout the Muslim quarter, if that's what you are referring to, and all of the Old City of Jerusalem at various holiday times, family celebrations, etc. So who exactly told you that this was in celebration of deaths, which is what you imply, or of an army operation, which happens all the time?
And the vast vast majority of Russian Orthodox Jews could care less about the Palestinians---whose state is Jordan, and they certainly don't want the destruction of that. From what revisionist sources are you gleaning this drivel? How many Russian Orthodox Jews do you think there are in Israel? I'd say less than 20,000, if that.
Re Muslims,though not necessarily Arabs here,
Muslim Students at Penn Sponsor Nazi
By Jonathan Calt Harris
FrontPageMagazine.com | October 9, 2003
This week the University of Pennsylvania’s Muslim Student Association (MSA) is celebrating its “Islam Awareness Week.” For the keynote address on Thursday, October 9, the MSA invited “Reverend” William W. Baker, a former chairman of a racist and anti-Semitic organization, the Populist Party.[1
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=10233
I did however see the orthodox jews celebrate the incursion into the West Bank 9 years ago, where a number of innocent Palestinian civilians were killed "in the crossfire", by dancing through the Arab Quarter of the old city of Jerusalem, when I was there. I found the majority of the Western Jews in Israel to be interested in peace, but the majority of the predominantly Russian Orthodox Jews are only interested in the complete destruction of the Palestinian state.
And the vast vast majority of Russian Orthodox Jews could care less about the Palestinians---whose state is Jordan, and they certainly don't want the destruction of that. From what revisionist sources are you gleaning this drivel? How many Russian Orthodox Jews do you think there are in Israel? I'd say less than 20,000, if that.
Re Muslims,though not necessarily Arabs here,
Muslim Students at Penn Sponsor Nazi
By Jonathan Calt Harris
FrontPageMagazine.com | October 9, 2003
This week the University of Pennsylvania’s Muslim Student Association (MSA) is celebrating its “Islam Awareness Week.” For the keynote address on Thursday, October 9, the MSA invited “Reverend” William W. Baker, a former chairman of a racist and anti-Semitic organization, the Populist Party.[1
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=10233