Qantas admits Arab 'terror' blunder
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I'm not going to change your views bubbette and you're not going to change mine. I didn't want to get off the topic but when Big Kev said almost all terrorists are arab that rubbed me up the wrong way.
I know their are parades and family celebrations through the old city all the time, but this certainly wasn't. The group of I suppose 40 ultra orthodox jews were aggresively taunting the local arabs and trying to incite a reaction, that was until the security forces arrived. I know what I saw and I know what I was told.
I based what I say from speaking to people from all backgrounds while I was there, and while I wasn't able to visit the ultra orthodox jews let alone talk to them, I spoke to the more liberal western jews who I would meet in coffee shops.
Again you have your opinion and I have mine. I still believe the Palestinians have a right to a homeland as Israelis do, and Jordan certainly is not that homeland. I believe the Palestinians are having state sponsored terrorism committed upon them, you believe these are legitimate army operations. One question why if they are legitimate army operations, are groups of young israeli soldiers refusing to participate.
You blame the Palestinians for being Anti-Semites???? If not before Sharon, surely after they endured the last couple of years it would make anyone hate the people doing what has been done to them.
I guess you support the maintaining of the illegal jewish settlements also.
I know their are parades and family celebrations through the old city all the time, but this certainly wasn't. The group of I suppose 40 ultra orthodox jews were aggresively taunting the local arabs and trying to incite a reaction, that was until the security forces arrived. I know what I saw and I know what I was told.
I based what I say from speaking to people from all backgrounds while I was there, and while I wasn't able to visit the ultra orthodox jews let alone talk to them, I spoke to the more liberal western jews who I would meet in coffee shops.
Again you have your opinion and I have mine. I still believe the Palestinians have a right to a homeland as Israelis do, and Jordan certainly is not that homeland. I believe the Palestinians are having state sponsored terrorism committed upon them, you believe these are legitimate army operations. One question why if they are legitimate army operations, are groups of young israeli soldiers refusing to participate.
You blame the Palestinians for being Anti-Semites???? If not before Sharon, surely after they endured the last couple of years it would make anyone hate the people doing what has been done to them.
I guess you support the maintaining of the illegal jewish settlements also.
Swounger
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The Palestinians and all the Arabs were huge fans of Hitler way before Sharon came into power. I would like to know who told you what, re the Orthodox Jews---I find it very hard to believe, and it in no way represents the majority in the area, or Judaism. Not that anyone would be upset if the Arabs left the Old City--that's why there are constant negotiations to buy their homes. Because they will be assassinated by the PA if they do so, arrangements have to be made to get them safely out of Israel before the closing.
The Jewish settlements are in no way illegal, any more than the American settlements in the new world are illegal--where do you think they are illegal? Certainly not under any UN law, and no international laws apply as far as I know.
Jordan certainly is the Palestinian homeland. Who exactly do you think composes the majority of Jordanians?
The Jewish settlements are in no way illegal, any more than the American settlements in the new world are illegal--where do you think they are illegal? Certainly not under any UN law, and no international laws apply as far as I know.
Jordan certainly is the Palestinian homeland. Who exactly do you think composes the majority of Jordanians?
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As you'll see from what follows everyone in the UN sees what Israel is doing to the Palestinians to be illegal and it is only the U.S veto power that stops any anti-israel resolutions from being passed.
Vetoes: 1972-1982
Subject Date & Meeting US Rep Casting Veto Vote
Palestine: Syrian-Lebanese Complaint. 3 power draft resolution 2/10784 9/10/1972 Bush 13-1, 1
Palestine: Examination of Middle East Situation. 8-power draft resolution (S/10974) 7/2/1973 Scali 13-1, 0 (China not partic.)
Palestine: Egyptian-Lebanese Complaint. 5-power draft power resolution (S/11898) 12/8/1975 Moynihan 13-1, 1
Palestine: Middle East Problem, including Palestinian question. 6-power draft resolution (S/11940) 1/26/1976 Moynihan 9-1,3 (China & Libya not partic.)
Palestine: Situation in Occupied Arab Territories. 5-power draft resolution (S/12022) 3/25/1976 Scranton 14-1,0
Palestine: Report on Committee on Rights of Palestinian People. 4-power draft resolution (S/121119) 6/29/1976 Sherer 10-1,4
Palestine: Palestinian Rights. Tunisian draft resolution. (S/13911) 4/30/1980 McHenry 10-1,4
Palestine: Golan Heights. Jordan draft resolution. (S/14832/Rev. 2) 1/20/1982 Kirkpatrick 9-1,5
Palestine: Situation in Occupied Territories, Jordan draft resolution (S/14943) 4/2/1982 Lichenstein 13-1,1
Palestine: Incident at the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem. 4-power draft resolution 4/20/1982 Kirpatrick 14-1, 0
Palestine: Conflict in Lebanon. Spain draft resolution. (S/15185) 6/8/1982 Kirpatrick 14-1,0
Palestine: Conflict in Lebanon. France draft resolution. (S/15255/Rev. 2) 6/26/1982 Lichenstein 14-1
Palestine: Conflict in Lebanon. USSR draft resolution. (S/15347/Rev. 1, as orally amended) 8/6/1982 Lichenstein 11-1,3
Palestine: Situation in Occupied Territories, 20-power draft resolution (S/15895) 8/2/1983 Lichenstein 13-1,1
Security Council Vetoes/Negative voting 1983-present
Subject Date Vote
Occupied Arab Territories: Wholesale condemnation of Israeli settlement policies - not adopted 1983
S. Lebanon: Condemns Israeli action in southern Lebanon. S/16732 9/6/1984 Vetoed: 13-1 (U.S.), with 1 abstention (UK)
Occupied Territories: Deplores "repressive measures" by Israel against Arab population. S/19459. 9/13/1985 Vetoed: 10-1 (U.S.), with 4 abstentions (Australia, Denmark, UK, France)
Lebanon: Condemns Israeli practices against civilians in southern Lebanon. S/17000. 3/12/1985 Vetoed: 11-1 (U.S.), with 3 abstentions (Australia, Denmark, UK)
Occupied Territories: Calls upon Israel to respect Muslim holy places. S/17769/Rev. 1 1/30/1986 Vetoed: 13-1 (US), with one abstention (Thailand)
Lebanon: Condemns Israeli practices against civilians in southern Lebanon. S/17730/Rev. 2. 1/17/1986 Vetoed: 11-1 (U.S.), with 3 abstentions (Australia, Denmark, UK)
Libya/Israel: Condemns Israeli interception of Libyan plane. S/17796/Rev. 1. 2/6/1986 Vetoed: 10 -1 (US), with 4 abstentions (Australia, Denmark, France, UK)
Lebanon: Draft strongly deplored repeated Israeli attacks against Lebanese territory and other measures and practices against the civilian population; (S/19434) 1/18/1988 vetoed 13-1 (US), with 1 abstention (UK)
Lebanon: Draft condemned recent invasion by Israeli forces of Southern Lebanon and repeated a call for the immediate withdrawal of all Israeli forces from Lebanese territory; (S/19868) 5/10/1988 vetoed 14-1 (US)
Lebanon: Draft strongly deplored the recent Israeli attack against Lebanese territory on 9 December 1988; (S/20322) 12/14/1988 vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Draft called on Israel to accept de jure applicability of the 4th Geneva Convention; (S/19466) 1988 vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Draft urged Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention, rescind the order to deport Palestinian civilians, and condemned policies and practices of Israel that violate the human rights of the Palestinian people in the occupied territories; (S/19780) 1988 vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Strongly deplored Israeli policies and practices in the occupied territories, and strongly deplored also Israel's continued disregard of relevant Security Council decisions. 2/17/1989 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Condemned Israeli policies and practices in the occupied territories. 6/9/1989 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Deplored Israel's policies and practices in the occupied territories. 11/7/1989 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: NAM draft resolution to create a commission and send three security council members to Rishon Lezion, where an Israeli gunmen shot down seven Palestinian workers. 5/31/1990 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Middle East: Confirms that the expropriation of land by Israel in East Jerusalem is invalid and in violation of relevant Security Council resolutions and provisions of the Fourth Geneva convention; expresses support of peace process, including the Declaration of Principles of 9/13/1993 5/17/1995 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Middle East: Calls upon Israeli authorities to refrain from all actions or measures, including settlement activities. 3/7/1997 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Middle East: Demands that Israel cease construction of the settlement in east Jerusalem (called Jabal Abu Ghneim by the Palestinians and Har Homa by Israel), as well as all the other Israeli settlement activity in the occupied territories 3/21/1997 Vetoed 13-1,1 (US)
Call for UN Observers Force in West Bank, Gaza 3/27/2001 Vetoed 9-1 (US),
with four abstentions
(Britain, France, Ireland and Norway)
Condemned acts of terror, demanded an end to violence and the establishment of a monitoring mechanism to bring in observers. 12/15/2001 Vetoed 12-1 (US)
with two abstentions (Britain and Norway)
Demand that Israel halt threats to expel Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat 9/16/03 Vetoed 11-1 (US)
with three abstentions
(Britain, Germany and Bulgaria)
But of course Israel continues to get away literally with murder because of the old golden rule, he who has the gold makes the rules. The US has the gold and Israel is only in existance due to the continued support of the US. Or are you going to argue against that as well. Looks pretty clear from these figures why the US veto every anti-Israeli resolution.
Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid
Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)
Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000
Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200
Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000
Grand Total
$84,854,827,200
Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630
Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel
Grand Total
$84,854,827,200
Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000
Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200
Total Cost per Israeli
$23,240
By the way there are 1.5 million displaced Palestinians living as refugees in Jordan out of a total population of 5.3 million.
Vetoes: 1972-1982
Subject Date & Meeting US Rep Casting Veto Vote
Palestine: Syrian-Lebanese Complaint. 3 power draft resolution 2/10784 9/10/1972 Bush 13-1, 1
Palestine: Examination of Middle East Situation. 8-power draft resolution (S/10974) 7/2/1973 Scali 13-1, 0 (China not partic.)
Palestine: Egyptian-Lebanese Complaint. 5-power draft power resolution (S/11898) 12/8/1975 Moynihan 13-1, 1
Palestine: Middle East Problem, including Palestinian question. 6-power draft resolution (S/11940) 1/26/1976 Moynihan 9-1,3 (China & Libya not partic.)
Palestine: Situation in Occupied Arab Territories. 5-power draft resolution (S/12022) 3/25/1976 Scranton 14-1,0
Palestine: Report on Committee on Rights of Palestinian People. 4-power draft resolution (S/121119) 6/29/1976 Sherer 10-1,4
Palestine: Palestinian Rights. Tunisian draft resolution. (S/13911) 4/30/1980 McHenry 10-1,4
Palestine: Golan Heights. Jordan draft resolution. (S/14832/Rev. 2) 1/20/1982 Kirkpatrick 9-1,5
Palestine: Situation in Occupied Territories, Jordan draft resolution (S/14943) 4/2/1982 Lichenstein 13-1,1
Palestine: Incident at the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem. 4-power draft resolution 4/20/1982 Kirpatrick 14-1, 0
Palestine: Conflict in Lebanon. Spain draft resolution. (S/15185) 6/8/1982 Kirpatrick 14-1,0
Palestine: Conflict in Lebanon. France draft resolution. (S/15255/Rev. 2) 6/26/1982 Lichenstein 14-1
Palestine: Conflict in Lebanon. USSR draft resolution. (S/15347/Rev. 1, as orally amended) 8/6/1982 Lichenstein 11-1,3
Palestine: Situation in Occupied Territories, 20-power draft resolution (S/15895) 8/2/1983 Lichenstein 13-1,1
Security Council Vetoes/Negative voting 1983-present
Subject Date Vote
Occupied Arab Territories: Wholesale condemnation of Israeli settlement policies - not adopted 1983
S. Lebanon: Condemns Israeli action in southern Lebanon. S/16732 9/6/1984 Vetoed: 13-1 (U.S.), with 1 abstention (UK)
Occupied Territories: Deplores "repressive measures" by Israel against Arab population. S/19459. 9/13/1985 Vetoed: 10-1 (U.S.), with 4 abstentions (Australia, Denmark, UK, France)
Lebanon: Condemns Israeli practices against civilians in southern Lebanon. S/17000. 3/12/1985 Vetoed: 11-1 (U.S.), with 3 abstentions (Australia, Denmark, UK)
Occupied Territories: Calls upon Israel to respect Muslim holy places. S/17769/Rev. 1 1/30/1986 Vetoed: 13-1 (US), with one abstention (Thailand)
Lebanon: Condemns Israeli practices against civilians in southern Lebanon. S/17730/Rev. 2. 1/17/1986 Vetoed: 11-1 (U.S.), with 3 abstentions (Australia, Denmark, UK)
Libya/Israel: Condemns Israeli interception of Libyan plane. S/17796/Rev. 1. 2/6/1986 Vetoed: 10 -1 (US), with 4 abstentions (Australia, Denmark, France, UK)
Lebanon: Draft strongly deplored repeated Israeli attacks against Lebanese territory and other measures and practices against the civilian population; (S/19434) 1/18/1988 vetoed 13-1 (US), with 1 abstention (UK)
Lebanon: Draft condemned recent invasion by Israeli forces of Southern Lebanon and repeated a call for the immediate withdrawal of all Israeli forces from Lebanese territory; (S/19868) 5/10/1988 vetoed 14-1 (US)
Lebanon: Draft strongly deplored the recent Israeli attack against Lebanese territory on 9 December 1988; (S/20322) 12/14/1988 vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Draft called on Israel to accept de jure applicability of the 4th Geneva Convention; (S/19466) 1988 vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Draft urged Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention, rescind the order to deport Palestinian civilians, and condemned policies and practices of Israel that violate the human rights of the Palestinian people in the occupied territories; (S/19780) 1988 vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Strongly deplored Israeli policies and practices in the occupied territories, and strongly deplored also Israel's continued disregard of relevant Security Council decisions. 2/17/1989 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Condemned Israeli policies and practices in the occupied territories. 6/9/1989 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: Deplored Israel's policies and practices in the occupied territories. 11/7/1989 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Occupied territories: NAM draft resolution to create a commission and send three security council members to Rishon Lezion, where an Israeli gunmen shot down seven Palestinian workers. 5/31/1990 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Middle East: Confirms that the expropriation of land by Israel in East Jerusalem is invalid and in violation of relevant Security Council resolutions and provisions of the Fourth Geneva convention; expresses support of peace process, including the Declaration of Principles of 9/13/1993 5/17/1995 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Middle East: Calls upon Israeli authorities to refrain from all actions or measures, including settlement activities. 3/7/1997 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Middle East: Demands that Israel cease construction of the settlement in east Jerusalem (called Jabal Abu Ghneim by the Palestinians and Har Homa by Israel), as well as all the other Israeli settlement activity in the occupied territories 3/21/1997 Vetoed 13-1,1 (US)
Call for UN Observers Force in West Bank, Gaza 3/27/2001 Vetoed 9-1 (US),
with four abstentions
(Britain, France, Ireland and Norway)
Condemned acts of terror, demanded an end to violence and the establishment of a monitoring mechanism to bring in observers. 12/15/2001 Vetoed 12-1 (US)
with two abstentions (Britain and Norway)
Demand that Israel halt threats to expel Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat 9/16/03 Vetoed 11-1 (US)
with three abstentions
(Britain, Germany and Bulgaria)
But of course Israel continues to get away literally with murder because of the old golden rule, he who has the gold makes the rules. The US has the gold and Israel is only in existance due to the continued support of the US. Or are you going to argue against that as well. Looks pretty clear from these figures why the US veto every anti-Israeli resolution.
Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid
Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)
Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000
Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200
Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000
Grand Total
$84,854,827,200
Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630
Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel
Grand Total
$84,854,827,200
Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000
Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200
Total Cost per Israeli
$23,240
By the way there are 1.5 million displaced Palestinians living as refugees in Jordan out of a total population of 5.3 million.
Last edited by AirNoServicesAustralia; 10th Oct 2003 at 02:26.
Swounger
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The UN, a bastion only of 3rd world dictators has no legal and certainly no moral right to state what is and isn't illegal. I am shocked that with Syria on the counter terrorism commision and Libya on the human rights commission anyone takes the UN seriously now or in the past.
You are confusing Israel, the saviors of the area, with the murdering Palestinian thugs. Last time I checked, the Palestinians were blowing up diners, and shooting 7 month old babies out of their mother's arms.
Re the dollar figures--who cares, when you don't contrast them with the far larger amounts given to the Egyptians, Jordanians etc. In any case, the logistical and intelligence help, as well as the fact that 90% of the grants (not sure where loan guarantees, which are not cash transfers come into play here) have to be spent in the US, ensure that the US gets far more benefit out of this than does Israel.
Again, why do you say Israel "murders"?
You are confusing Israel, the saviors of the area, with the murdering Palestinian thugs. Last time I checked, the Palestinians were blowing up diners, and shooting 7 month old babies out of their mother's arms.
Re the dollar figures--who cares, when you don't contrast them with the far larger amounts given to the Egyptians, Jordanians etc. In any case, the logistical and intelligence help, as well as the fact that 90% of the grants (not sure where loan guarantees, which are not cash transfers come into play here) have to be spent in the US, ensure that the US gets far more benefit out of this than does Israel.
Again, why do you say Israel "murders"?
Bubbette
Let's keep our discussion West of the River Jordan! Quite rightly where it belongs.
QF
I really hope the girls and boys who walked of the QF flight realise they have played into the hands of many. Much the same way as Pauline Hanson played into the hands of Mahatir etc.
A little ripple at home but a wave in the Arabian Gulf.
And what about our sheep?
Max AB
Head in the sand Australian or are you fogetting how quickly you and your compound can become part of Western foreign policy?
After the first anniversay of Bali people still ask why?
Un-deserving and possibly irrational, but these despots use Israel and Western Policy as the excuse or catalyst.
The F/A's in the worst case ignorant, you shouldn't get off so lightly.
Let's keep our discussion West of the River Jordan! Quite rightly where it belongs.
QF
I really hope the girls and boys who walked of the QF flight realise they have played into the hands of many. Much the same way as Pauline Hanson played into the hands of Mahatir etc.
A little ripple at home but a wave in the Arabian Gulf.
And what about our sheep?
Max AB
Head in the sand Australian or are you fogetting how quickly you and your compound can become part of Western foreign policy?
After the first anniversay of Bali people still ask why?
Un-deserving and possibly irrational, but these despots use Israel and Western Policy as the excuse or catalyst.
The F/A's in the worst case ignorant, you shouldn't get off so lightly.
Last edited by Gnadenburg; 10th Oct 2003 at 03:22.
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Yes I am Max, and I really don't have the time to read so many comments that are clearly off topic. I also don't feel comfortable with a debate on Jewish - Arab relations in PPRuNe - it has the ability to either get out of hand or unnecessarily offend someone when a Woomeri is not watching.
The thread topic is:
Qantas admits Arab 'terror' blunder
Can we stick closer to the topic, please?
Ta!
Woomera
The thread topic is:
Qantas admits Arab 'terror' blunder
Can we stick closer to the topic, please?
Ta!
Woomera
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Sorry Woomera
Sorry got carried away, back onto the topic we go.
As I said if the UAE guys were wearing innocent flying caps, it sounds like a gross over reaction, but considering the over reaction towards arabs recently in the western media I can sort of understand why. Not that that condones there actions, far from it.
As I said if the UAE guys were wearing innocent flying caps, it sounds like a gross over reaction, but considering the over reaction towards arabs recently in the western media I can sort of understand why. Not that that condones there actions, far from it.
Master Baiter
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Hey, I used to go out with a biscuit chucker .. I never listened to anything she used to say cos it mostly involved shopping and other such nonsense. Why would I listen to her views regarding racial profiling?
