good luck to you too. Hopefully it doesnt take too long, but you cant rush these things!! Let me know how you go with it!

Hello again everyone.

I went to the pilot information night last week down at Melbourne airport. It was really great to check out Melbourne center and the simulator room.
The simulator was quite cool, I got to sit down and play with it for a few minutes, accepting aircraft and changing the altitudes etc. It reminded me of a video game in a way. It seemed quite complicated, but I guess that's what all the training is for.
Melbourne center itself was really interesting and fascinating. To think half of aus and more is controlled from that one room is quite amazing. It was around 22:00 when we got to look in MC so the western Australia side of the room had a lot more controllers than the Melbourne side. Got to look at the aircraft/airspace around Melbourne (there wasn't too many so the controller was quite happy to point some things out to us.)
It was quite a good night and has really got me wanting to do this as a job more, now that I have seen it closer.
Anyway I managed to have most of my questions answered by one of the trainers and one of the controllers, but I have a couple more that I forgot to ask last week. So hopefully you guys might be able to help.

1. On average how many aircraft would you guys manage at once (Per person) and what would be the maximum you would handle?

2. How is the support if you think you have too many A/C and you want some help with them? One of the guys I spoke too said you can allways ask for some help to manage the A/C. But how does this work generally? can someone pull up your sector and take a couple of A/C or does someone just stand next to you and have a look?

3. How long do you stay on one sector? Do you generally learn an area with several sectors or just a sector?

4. They guys were saying that AsA is severely understaffed (as suggested by people on here also) and working 10 days is not uncommon. But After 10 days you must be given time off right? anyone know what that would be?
Also I don't quite understand how overtime can be forced. If your busy or unreachable or not at home on your day off, It seems a bit silly to be expected at work in say an hours time. I'm sure there are days when your not busy and you may as well go into work, but I'm just wondering how often you get called for extra shifts?

5. Anyone know a rough hourly rate for controllers (base rate of $83,000PA I think)? Just curious if anyone has worked it out.

6. How tough is the training? Is it mostly dependent on each individual (some people can ace it without studying and others have to study 24/7)? Or is it really quite tough. The trainer guy I spoke to said it changes person to person, but its structured quite well (building block style) and its not as bad as its made out to be. I would assume, you have to really work hard (just being on the safe side), but anyone have any personal stories about the training? Did you enjoy it? Some parts easy? some parts hard?

I'll leave it at that for now. I dont want to bother people with hundreds of questions, I just want to get an idea of the job before going through with it.
I have my application in, so here's hoping I'm what AsA is looking for!!

Also good luck to the rest of you guys who have put your applications in.

This is no definate answeer for this because it depends entirely on what position you are workings. A tower controller will generally have less than a TMA controller who again will have less than a Enroute controller. The large procedural sectors can have to 20-30 aircraft at once, the larger radar sectors maybe 15-20, the smaller radar sectors 10-15, TMA about 5-10.

If there is someone spare you can call upon them but that may not be the case all the time. See you comment about short staffing. How does it work? Often you are working 2 or more sectors combined. If the workload gets high someone will take one of your sectors to relieve the workload. If you can't split anything off then someone may plug in next to you and monitor whats going on, point out anything you may have missed, work on separation problems and coordinate with other controllers to relieve workload.

You will be assigned to one group which covers a particular area of airspace. This airspace will usually have multiple sectors within it. You will usually starting training on the easiest sector in the group. Once rated and after some consolidation you will progressively train on all the other sectors within you group until you have all the ratings for that group. How long you stay in that group is a difficult thing to answer. Due to the staffing shortages there is quite a bit of gridlock with staffing. Ie people can't be released to move to another group because there is noone to replace them. But you can probably expect a minimum of 5 years in the one group before you can move one to something different.


Minimum rest after 10 days working is only one day off. Your working conditions are governed by our certified agreement which covers working hours and time off. The CA states that you are required to do "reasonable overtime". The CA also has list of reasons why you may refuse to do overtime. If you do not have one of these reasons, then ASA may discipline you. You are not required to be contactable or to return calls when you are rostered off. Some groups are more short staffed than others and if you are on a really short staffed group you can expect to be called on every day off. Others maybe a once or twice a fortnight.

=(83000/52)/36=$44.33/h

It is tough. The theoretical part is not conceptually difficult and anyone who has passed all the testing should be able to complete it without to much difficulty. The difficult part is applying the theory to the simulation component whilst under pressure. Yes some people will breeze through without many problems, others will struggle until it clicks and a significant number won't get through. I would suggest studying hard because there is nothing more annoying than having a trainee who fails because of lack of book knowledge. If you fail due to the lack of ability then there is nothing we can do. If you fail due to lack of diligence then we have all wasted our time.

Thank you so much to all those who contribute to this forum. It is great to be able to read the stories of those who have been through the application process before.

I have just completed the online assessment :eek: and have no idea how I went. I guess now I have the play the waiting game like everyone else.

If registering for this forum was part of the job application, I would have failed dismally....it took me 10 goes, and yes I had to google the 3 letter name for the biggest airport in New York, and how many engines does a 757 have. I am beginning to think I am not cut out for this job after all! :)

Just a further note to my last post.

I did the online tests at 8pm last night, and got an email at 8am this morning to book the phone interview! :D

Looks like the process has sped up quite a bit!

I did my online tests on thursday night and also got the email at 8am this morning to book my telephone interview. Really happy with that because I thought I had royally screwed up the online tests! My phone interview is booked in on the 24th, so hopefully that goes well and it doesnt take too long after that to go to an assessment day! :)

Work Schedule
 

Hi there everyone,

I was hoping if there is someone out there who can possibly inform me, what the current working schedule is like at the Brisbane center for En Route traffic controllers. It sounds like Air Services Australia might be plagued with being short staffed from what I can gather on this forum. And I understand fully that as a controller you should be able to work over time. However I guess I am just trying to be aware of how much over time the average controller is putting in these days.

Thank you in advance.

Kind regards

That is interesting that thequestor2000 and cadetkid got the email for telephone interview at 8am the next morning after completing SHL testing. I did my online test on the 20th Feb and no email the following morning nor second day…. I guess I can take that as a rejection. :{

I wonder if the process in moving a candidate to the next stage is automatically done by a computer so even if you are a really good candidate but are like one or two marks off in SHL testing cut off point it means non selection because of no human evaluation of the results.

Sydney Test Day
 

Hi All,

Long time listener, first time caller. I have passed both my online testing and telephone interview and have my test day booked for March 7th here in Sydney.

I'm looking forward to the day; quite pumped about it actually.

Is there anyone else that has their onsite testing the same day?

For experienced ATC's out there, are there any towers that ASA are desperately short on? I may be one of the few that wouldnt mind going to Broome or Cairns.

I know its getting a bit ahead of myself, just curious on the matter.

Thanks!!

"For experienced ATC's out there, are there any towers that ASA are desperately short on? I may be one of the few that wouldnt mind going to Broome or Cairns."

Actually, my missus has already told me she wouldn't mind if I got posted to Cairns. :) The only place she doesn't want to live is Sydney :=

I'm on the Tower course starting in May.

Evening all,

Applied to the seek advertisement on the 6th Feb and haven't heard a thing back yet, save for the email confirming that my application had been received.

Now panicking sightly that people have been through the first round of testing.

Thequestor2000, cadetkid, WichWayIsUp, AuUnboxer, CanuckInOz did you all apply in Jan or Feb 2012?

Cheers,

Stu.

Hi Liberty70,

I applied directly through the Airservices Australia website on the 22nd of Jan and got the email for online testing on the 15th of Feb so that is about 24 days. So I would wait about 4 weeks before worrying that you have not go to the next stage.

However as the others mentioned they seem to be progressing applications quickly once you pass the online testing; sending the email for telephone interview booking the next day. I just wish they could send the rejection letter the next day too instead of leaving people hanging and wondering.

Hi Liberty70, I applied in the first week of January and got the email about the online testing about 4 weeks later. My phone interview is tomorrow so I am seriously hoping it goes well!

Goodluck with your application.

Jan 2012 Sydney Testing
 

G'day All,

Just wondering if anyone on here attended the Testing Days in Nth Syd in early Jan?

One of my referees was contacted 10 days after testing, and now nothing...

I'm somewhat positive about having references checked, but bloody hell they string you out! :ouch: haha

They told us 6 weeks but we're approaching 7...

Hi liberty,


I applied on jan 21st, got the email for the online testing on feb 15 & got the phone interview email on feb 18. My phone interview is booked in for tomorrow so I hope all goes well there!

Unfortunately thats how ASA play the game...slowly!! Keep trapping them on the shoulder every month and eventually you'll get some info out of them.:ok:

Hi Liberty70,

The process can be quite long for some. I myself applied back in April 2011,
however I did apply directly through the ASA website.

Once you've done the assessment day, they won't contact the unsuccessful applicants until all the successful ones have been called. I assume it would be the same at the different stages as well.

Also, I haven't heard of anyone getting to the phone interview and not progressing to the assessment day.

Hi Liberty,

I'm not a very good example to gauge time frame as ASA sent me the wrong online tests to do originally so, I had to do the online tests twice!

From the time I did the online tests it was about 1 week, then booked my phone interview, then a week after that I was invited to the testing day here in Sydney.

That brings us up to now!

Sorry, this probably isn't much help but, I have found that if you phone into the recruitment centre, everyone there is really helpful so you should get some answers.

Cheers.

stevep64 makes a good point here you would have to come across as a very poor communicator over the phone to be rejected at this stage. From what I have gathered by the recruitment process and the wording of the rejection email from AirServices Australia is that the SHL testing is the be all and end all for HR to assess whether you will make a good Air Traffic Controller. In Airservices Australia words:

Which is interesting considering many of the comments on here about the failure rate at the academy/field placement for those that make it through the drawn out recruitment process.

CanuckInOz were the two cognitive tests very similar?

If that is the case it sounds like you were gifted a great opportunity to practice SHL testing before doing the real thing. That would have been a massive advantage over the other candidates.

Hey AuUnboxer,

Nah, it was different. Some similarities but, nothing that would give me an advantage.

I was never apprehensive about the online tests, the real ones come at the testing center I think.

I don't think doing the online tests twice gives anyone and advantage. Once you get to the assessment day, you will be assessed by at least 7 different people, and possibly more (who knows what they remember about you as you hoe into the free sandwiches at lunch time and chat to the assessors). That's where you have to shine

When it gets right down to it, you either have it or you don't. In the long run, it may be better to be knocked out in the early stages of selection than to move to Melbourne and flunk out of the training course.

In some ways, (and I really don't want to upset any unsuccessful applicants here) selection is a bit like auditioning for Australian Idol. Your life's ambition might be to work in ATC (be a famous singer), but you might not have what it takes (be tone deaf).

Don't forget, if you do get selected you may not get through the training. I've already be alerted to the fact I may not finish the training because I'm an old fart at 47.

Oh, and if you think the selection process is tough, wait till you start dealing with CASA.

Hi folks.
For the record, I am 50 and have just got my 30 years service.
I am looking forward to retirement soonish.
Out of my double course of 40 people about 28 got rated and 15 are still working as ATC, most with ASA but a couple with other ANS providers.
There are 2 or 3 who are still with ASA but in non ATC positions.

I believe that our course had one of the more successful pass rates in the 80s.
We had failure rates of 50% even then with the "cadet" style long term courses.

No one I know of has ever winged it through training with minimal or no study.
Some people can absorb the huge amount of regs, rules and legal requirements, are naturals at the multitasking and shrug off the pressure.
Most aren't/cannot do it that easily.
Lots of those people still work through it and become very good controllers but it is a hard slog.
Every new position will involve more training and hard work, even after 20 years in the job.
The job is evolutionary with new airspace/procedures/aircraft etc all the time, so you will always be training and adapting.

I'm not trying to put anyone off.
It is a great job with a lot of rewards but not everyone is suited to it.

Outstation towers are a great way to learn the craft and a hell of a lot of fun.
You get to know everyone in the local aviation comunity from the aero club, training groups, firies, refuellers, airline staff, local council operators etc.
You are usually welcomed into the local comunity with open arms.
It is also usually easier to get to a plum position [CS, CG, MC, CFS, ] if you " do your time' in an outstation.

Don't be afraid of tower stream because you might get sent to a remote locality.
You might just find out that you love it and don't want to leave.

AA

Has anyone who did telephone interviews in mid Jan been informed of any assessment day dates for Brisbane yet?

Lady on the phone told me today that brisbane has a day at the end of march but its all booked out, and the next days are in sydney in april and may. Was told id get an email within 2 weeks to book onto one of those days.

Sorry correction on my last post. The next days are in melbourne, not sydney.

Thanks for the feedback. it had gone quiet. i understand why now.
cheers

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies regarding the delay in applying and getting the email for the testing.

Applied on the 6th Feb, got the email for the testing late Friday 24th Feb, and have just completed the online testing. I have to say it was a lot harder that the SHL testing I've done for roles in private enterprise. Went in quite confident, but now I have no idea. Guess we'll wait and see - fingers crossed.

Again, thanks all for you replies.

Cheers,

Stu.

Hey Stu!

Have you heard back as yet how you went with the online tests?

I submitted my application about a week ago. I haven't heard anything as yet. I don't really expect to for another three weeks or so!

Thanks Bron

Hey guys,

Completed my onlines and passed my telephone interview. In the telephone interview I was advised that the next screening day was in May in Melbourne. I forgot to ask when in May. Does anyone know roughly when in May it is? Early/late?

Fingers crossed for all
J

Big thank you to the Melbourne ATC's I met yesterday. You were so generous with your time and patience in answering my questions and I am very grateful.

I am also going to an assessment day in May but have not been given an exact date yet. Really looking forward to it.

Hey, how did you arrange to meet the ATCs?

I believe you just ring up airservices, not sure which number though. Ive been meaning to do that.

I was told in my phone interview the next assessment day was in april and then another in may, so maybe the april one is now full. Im waiting on an exact date as well, sooner the better though because I have to book a flight down to melbourne.

Should I try and arrange a visit to a tower before the assessment day or before the panel interview?

I thought they were on the same day??

Are they? I guess that makes sense. For some reason I thought the panel came after and on another day.

I think so, at least thats the way I understand it looking at thier website/ reading this forum. I hope its the same day anyway, if they are both in melbourne on seperate days thats 2 lots of airfares I have to pay for.

I organised the visit by calling ASA direct and they put me through to the right person in Melb.

Do your visit asap, it will give you heaps to think about and give you a chance to ask all the questions you may have.

Did you just ring the number on their webiste? 1800 026 147?