I'm not sure when 2 of the guys were taken out, but i know the last 4 didn't find out till last week, the final week of the course.

2 Sups in Theory and 2 Sups in Sims, however you may or may not be able to use a sup on the final milestone, depending on your overall history during the course.

It is (or at least was 4 years ago) all integrated. You do about 4 weeks of theory then you start in the Sim and do theory as well. The problem is if they failed in the last week, they most likely failed for the second time the final sim check by the sounds of it. Most of your theory stuff is finished within the last month from memory. It might be a bit different now but it shouldn't have changed that much.

are they still offering a choice between ENR and Tower? ;)

ATC
 

We'll there is a reason why apparently only a few select people in the world can do the job , and to be fair everyone knows what there getting themselves into, if they didn't then i guess they didn't research the job enough, if they don't pass the milestones they don't get rated and i think thats a good thing, there seems to be enough war stories floating around even for the experienced.
For those interested Yes they are still offering tower and enroute courses.

Probably a dopey question but what sort of factors/problems do the majority of failed candidates encounter that trip them up? Is it an inability to cope with the stress of busy scenarios in the sim, or more a technical or knowledge based issue that could have been prevented with more revision/effort. I've recently applied and though I'm reasonably confident that perhaps I meet a lot of the requirements on paper, just working out for myself wether I possess that 'x' factor we hear a lot about on here. Maybe impossible to answer I understand, but would be interested in any thoughts.

Nerves posed the biggest obstacle I think. Also knowing the rules and which one to apply in each situation.

I don't know if anyone could give you a good answer but one of the current college people might be able too.

It's a huge amount of info to take in in a short amount of time. The time in the sim goes very quickly, you are continually learning new things. Just a matter of keeping up with what you are learning. ATC is very fluid, no two conflicts are the same. I think people that 'learn' conflicts in the sims, as opposed to understanding the rules and applying them to solve the conflicts end up falling over. Being confident in each transmission is also a must.
As your driving home, watching tv, in the shower, think up conflicts and as many ways as you can to solve them. If you can look at a conflict and think of 3 ways to solve it, you won't have any problems.
On top of that, sim exams can be quite stressful. If you make a mistake, don't let it get on top of you, keep clawing away and hold onto at least one form of separation. Furthermore, each exam is designed to cripple you with conflicts and problems.
No greater feeling than finishing up a sim exam, getting called into the room and told you passed.

dreamer, you need to get the basics down pat. If you learn the book knowledge well & don't have to think about that it gives you more time to solve problems. Wasting 10 seconds here & 10 seconds there repeatedly because you don't know the basics well enough soon adds up.

Separation standards, local instructions, frequencies of surrounding units, coordination requirements, using the HMI (human machine interface).

I'm not so sure it's nerves that does most trainees in. Sure, nerves & stress are considerations but you still have to be able to pull the entire package together & perform to the required level. Some people just can't pull it all together sufficiently well.

In the end if you ain't got it you ain't got it. And then you have to do it all again for real.

SAR and PERF&REC exam
 

hey......can any people who are on/have recently completed the course inform me as to what exactly was on these two exams!? im pretty lost as to know precisely what to study and time is running out.

if you could private mail me anything helpful i would be grateful....Thanks

(also if any new course starters want any revision documents etc email me because it would be very smart to get on top of it now because there is lots of study to be done, and very little time to do it) :ugh:

AIP
 

Can anyone on course at the moment let me know the numbers of the biggest sections of the AIP you are having to learn? Want to get moving but dont want to waste time on the not applicable sections

Cheers

standard phraseology. you have to nail it, the sooner the better. This includes co-ordination phraseology. Stuff about visual and instrument approaches (learning the lists word for word), when you get MATS you'll be tested on any significantly sized list in the book. As others have said, if you nail the basics you'll free up brain space in the sim. By far more challenging than the theory stuff which can be spoon fed to you.

SAR and PERF&REC exam
 

1208punk, you need to study all of it. It's not a university and a lack of knowledge will show up in the simulator and you'll go the way of the majority on the last course. The exams come from a large database and questions are generated randomly.

Accom
 

Anyone at the ASA academy in Melbourne got a room available near the airport?

Alawatu see if you contact any of your coursemates. I shared with 2 others off my course 10 minutes from the Airport. Airport west, right next too Essendon Airport. Great house! Made studying far easier as well, and kept the rent to $100 a week each :ok::ok:

Great times in Melbourne, we had another course house just round the corner in Keilor. Brilliant times!:D

references checked
 

had my references checked the other day, am hoping this is a good sign

Approach
 

Can anyone let me know where most approach controllers are streamed from - enroute or tower controllers? I know tower course includes the TMA component but a lot of enroute guys I have spoken to arent sure

most from enroute except sy, ad, and ph, however it will be more than 10 years before you even get a look in

Can any one at the ASA acadamy tell me where the tower guys on the currant courses are going and when

Our Jan Ab-Initio group won't find out for a while, probably closer to the end of the course.

We are coming to the end of our block of blippying for all the Conversion courses going through - mostly GAAP, some Radar and now some Procedural. They have obviously been a priority as positions can be filled far faster with experienced controllers than with Ab-Initios.

Rather than blip for each other, we've been doing our allocated time in one big block, so as to maximise our time in the Sim futher on, as well as to help the conversion courses get through. It's been great for phraseology and situational awareness, as well as giving us a genuine feel for the job and what's expected of you.

While it's been fun, we're really looking forward to getting stuck into the training again. We start our Met Observers Course in a couple of weeks, followed by Basic Tower, Approach, Radar, Procedural and GAAP.

Once this is out of the way (big assumption, but here's hoping!) the instructors will have a better idea as to which style suits us best, and this in combination with AsA rquirements at the time will determine where we go.

This was the first thread I found here and while the 44 pages took awhile I got a *lot* of good info out of it so thank you to all of those who took the time to contribute!

Quick query - it has been mentioned a few times about the large of amount of data that simply had to be memorised - is that data either corporate in confidence or info that simply would not make sense outside of the course's environment or is it data that we (ok I) could start memorising *before* we hit the course?

If it is the latter is there somewhere I could find it online etc as I would love to spend some of my waiting-to-be-called-re-a-course-post-referee-check time constructively pre-learning these things ....

Thanks in advance for the assist

Has anyone else heard if their references have been checked like capt caveman? I haven't heard anything from mine.

I wouldn't try and memorise anything before the course- but if you want to have a look at the sort of stuff it is, look at ICAO DOC 4444 especially chapter 5. It's publicly available. You will also realise that some/a lot won't make sense until on course.
The course/job is not about the theory- you need to have it, sure. However, it's the sim where you do the real learning and find out if you can do it.
As for the 'x' factor.... My thoughts are; there are some talented individuals who are 'naturals' ( and by that I mean that they seem to have no trouble absorbing the information, are always ahead, and seem to always have the right solution first time), but the rest get thru by application, having the ability to accept criticism and adjust, self-confidence and the ability to perform under pressure, and sometimes just sheer doggedness. It goes a long way in this job.

Hi Nick83

My referees were checked about the same time as Capt Caveman, a couple of weeks ago. Hang in there Nick.

Quote:

---

The course/job is not about the theory- you need to have it, sure. However, it's the sim where you do the real learning and find out if you can do it.

---

Warren,

Ferris is 100% correct. You can do yourself a disservice trying to learn volumes of theory without having an instructor to help you relate it to practice. When it comes to simulation you will have very little advantage over someone who has learned the theory in a structured way - on course.
Learning ATC is no different to learning to fly an aircraft, all the theoretical knowledge of how to do it in the world does not teach how it is actually done. Could I suggest you look at ATCX at www.visualvectoring.com or on YouTube. It is designed in part for people like you (and I declare I am a co-developer) to establish their aptitude for ATC and to get a headstart at skills development. It is a link between ATC gaming and training.
When you do get to the Academy you will find the experience challenging and exhilarating, and at the end of it you will have the best job in the world. Good luck.

Next lot
 

This has been a good read, thanks to all who contributed.

I applied for the April intake just past, and received an email today saying they expect the online testing to take place in October.. Makes it sound like 12 months is optimistic!

Thought I'd share and keep the info flowing, as this is the best source I've been able to find for those of us trying to get in the ASA way.

I've done the same, only this is my 2nd shot. I got knocked back after the interview stage 2 years ago.

So I'll just get on with my life until the next email arrives.

Last time it was 12 months on the dot from start to finish. Expect month-long delays at certain points and short delays at others. All depends on when they've got the resources available I suppose.

Hi Sticker Spruce,

I have heard the same from other applicants for the April 30 cutoff. I'm not sure why there is such a delay, i.e. wether it is a Canberra HR delay, or problems in the Academy in Melbourne. I'll endeavour to find out why the big delay and post on here for everyone.

Hang in there guys. :)

Quick question in regards to the pre-reading material..

Are we supposed to know it all inside out before we start?
I hear there will be an exam very early on, will they at least teach us the material in depth before we are tested on it, and is there sufficient time to study, or are we supposed to have it all down before classes begin?

Thanks for any answers :)

You get a document asking some of the questions that are at the back of the chapters in the ARM (pre course reading). At the minimum you should go through that, it will make things a little easier.

Some people in our course did nothing, some did more than was required.

The exam in the first week is just as an indication to the trainers what your level of knowledge is... you aren't going to be judged on it. That being said... the more you know, the easier the first few weeks will be, and they are pretty intense. I wish I had done a little more in hindsight, but no-one has had any issues with the theory side of things yet.

You'll probably thank yourself for any extra effort you put in beforehand.

Time wise, you get the material about a month before you start which is more than enough time to do what you need to do.

From the HR people
 

Okay girls and guys,

I've been speaking to my contacts in Canberra HR and have found the following information about ATC recruiting delays.

The ATC school, (which is known as the ATC Learning Academy), is running to maximum capacity. The Academy is still putting trainees through ATC courses now, with those recruits selected from the selection exercises run in early 2009.

Aside from this, there are also a large number of courses being run to train controllers (mostly from the centres) who are transferring to towers and approach units throughout the country.

There are also two new towers opening. One in Broome and one in Karratha, WA, which requires the training of an additional 20 - 30 current controllers who are transferring there. It will involve training in the new airspace created for these new towers. Consequently, the Academy is going flat chat right through to late this year.

Aligned with the huge amount of training occurring at the Academy, is that a new tender for the psychometric testing is in the process of being finalised, associated with a review of the recruiting process/methodology. This means that the next stage of recruitment (psychometric testing) for ATC trainees will commence by October 2010 for those who applied for the 30 April cutoff.

In other words, we still need ATCs, but we can't put all the trainees through the Academy as quickly as we need controllers.

So hang in there.

DP

Pierre,
Even though we've known for 6+ years that we are desperately short of controllers.:ugh:

But training capacity will all be solved with a new simulator and less blippies.

DP

rumour has it that ASA are in the final stages of recruiting a buch of overseas controllers to make up some of the shortfall.....
any truth in that ????
and if there is any Idea as to the time scale....:rolleyes::cool:

20-30 for KTA and BRM! I`d like to see that.....

While we`re at it could we have an extra hundred or so for en-route and another hundred or so for approach? That should take care of the impending shortage ( remember, staffing is 100% atm ) as the Sand Deployment Exercise gathers pace. :ugh:

Must go as the dog and bone is ringing. I wonder who that could be?

the real numbers are 7 for Broome and 5 for Karratha

Doubt that they are in the final stages of hiring OS controllers, a couple of the blokes here in the sandpit have been told that they must obtain their own permanent residency visa approval before submitting applications.

As an Aussie expat controller in the sandpit I am talking to more controllers from Oz about coming to the ME than foreign controllers going the other way. Heck half the guys I trained with on Tops are either here or in Germany.
Even the Yarps aren't overly keen on going to AsA as they were 4 years ago. Anecdotally feedback from the South Africans is more positive from those that joined the RAAF as controllers than those who went to Airservices.

So boys and girls about to embark on your career with AsA, do your 5 years get your Radar Area/Approach rating go OS do some really challenging ATC (without the AsA bull****) and earn pretty good T&C's.
:}

Hi,

I was told those big numbers for Broome and Karratha. I thought it was a bit big myself but I think it must include the numbers for those replacing the controllers to Broome and Karratha, e.g. the boss for Broome is the current boss from an east coast tower.

Funk,

I'm working with the Tops guys now. We've just lost one to Germany, one about to pull the plug, and another rumoured to be there now doing his medical. Interestingly, the one yarpie we have in Aisle 1 loves it here. But its the lifestyle he's here for. My advice to those that want to be ATCs is go for it. If you don't like it, or you'd prefer to work in another country, then do it.

I've knocked back jobs overseas in the past for one reason or another, But it boils down to lifestyle. I can't have the lifestyle I enjoy in the here and now if I moved overseas. I surf the Gold Coast, my kids go/went to great schools and universities, the weather is great and I get to watch as much rugby. NRL, AFL, netball, hockey, football, etc. as my wife allows me, and I can go sailing with Max1 most Wednesdays if I want, which is one of the most enjoyable ways of spending an afternoon. If the worst I have to put up with is some of the ****e that goes on at AsA, than it's a small price to pay.

Max1,

I know, I know. And it seems that now that we've ramped up the training, we're still not getting enough to stem the tide.

flyingbricksh,

I know nothing about recruiting OS controllers. It is possible this will happen again.

DP

DP back to the future in Tops eh? :rolleyes: I am working with 4 ex-Tops guys that have arrived here in the last 12 months, 1 on the way another making serious inquiries, there are 4 in Germany and 1 more in Luxembourg. Granted you can't compare Brisvegas lifestyle to the pit but a sh#t load of money, decent roster and compulsory (you must acquit each year) 8 weeks leave a year goes someway towards making up for it.

Don't get me wrong folks I love working Air Traffic Control, but think long and hard about a career with AsA. The first 5 years in Byron Area Radar group before the Ansett collapse were great, the next 5 years in Tops were soul destroying.
As trainees you also have to contend with the unacceptably high failure rates in the field, a couple of my mates that didn't pass have struggled to come to terms with it many years after. Use a good controlling technique make sure you have a plan B.
:}

Or I could just post it....:rolleyes:

$229824 AUD (at today's exchnge rate 81.5 to the US) NET/Year Plus bonus(:hmm:) plus medical which sees you about 10 bucks a visit out of pocket for just about anything.


I was one of the 'Tops 4' but could not see 5 years like Funk and pulled the pin after 3 there.

As for lifestyle, that all depends what your preferences are. The most important thing is that I can buy a carton of XXXX at The Barracuda for LESS than I can buy it for in Brisbane.:ok: Plus it is like being Han Solo on the Kessel run going up there.

Bring a hat.

Anyway, back to the show........

So Plaz did you do the Barracuda run in 5 parsecs? :}