PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   ATC Issues (https://www.pprune.org/atc-issues-18/)
-   -   Airservices Australia Psychometric Testing (https://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/311440-airservices-australia-psychometric-testing.html)

Plazbot 7th Mar 2010 16:42

Considering that with less than 5 years experience you are very unlikely to get a gig anywhere* else in the world, what on earth is the reason for bonding new joiners with a crippling pay out figure like that?

Having worked on Tops, I said at the time I got the transfer that had I gone into that group straight from the college I would have quit straight away (it took me 2 years to do so after 13 years elsewhere in AsA and CAA). If these poor suckers get that posting AND a $250000 bond, I really feel for them. Seriously. The 15 or so (27 man roster) of us that quit from Tops in the last 12 months are proof of that.


*Germany have been paying out the bond for 'experienced' recruits from OZ at the $70K level who are still bonded bt I expect the $250K will be another matter.

enemyMiG 8th Mar 2010 01:36

I suspect that it's bed-time in Plazbot's neck of the woods, so I'll have a crack.

Tops looks after the airspace North of Australia which covers all the air routes heading into and out of Asia.
Because it's outside of radar coverage, it relies on procedural techniques to keep aircraft separated - very tricky.
It's at it's busiest around 0300 EST when Internationals are doing their thing.

Check out this link, you'll probably see it at your induction, but none the less, it's pretty cool.

YouTube - airtraffic volume for 24 hour period

brissyboy 8th Mar 2010 03:37

Hey Enemymig

How is the story with the bottom half of the country and the jets coming from nz/USA etc is that also procedural like tops or radar?

enemyMiG 8th Mar 2010 04:10

The Aus FIR (Flight Information Region) extends a bit over halfway to NZ. This is well out of radar and VHF range, as most of Australia itself is.
ATC in non-radar airspace is maintained through position reporting via HF (radio), CPDLC (texting) and ADS-B (GPS).
An aircraft may still be in Aus airspace, but due to unfavourable communication conditions, be controlled via relay through NZ ATC, and vice versa.
Aus ATC is part of a network of units in surrounding FIRs, Primary Guard being given to that unit which may maintain the most effective comms with the aircraft. As in the above example, this means that an aircraft in South African airspace may still be controlled via relay through Aus ATC if conditions merit it.

melbATC 8th Mar 2010 04:14


How is the story with the bottom half of the country and the jets coming from nz/USA etc is that also procedural like tops or radar?
The radar coverage in Aus is quite limited, the coverage is mostly limited to what we call the j-curve which basically gives radar coverage in an area from Adelaide around to Brisbane covering most of tassie at high levels. There is also some coverage about 250nm around Perth.

So basically traffic that stays on the east coast usually stays within radar coverage depending on level.

The rest of the country is mostly procedural, with more and more ADS-b appearing as aircraft become equipped and the last of the sites are being turned on. Eventually ADS-b will give the ability to provide radar like separation across most of the country.

For those of you who are unaware what ADS-b is take a look at this link.
Automatic Dependent Surveillance Broadcast (ADS-B) - Airservices Australia


The Aus FIR (Flight Information Region) extends a bit over halfway to NZ. This is well out of radar and VHF range, as most of Australia itself is.
ATC in non-radar airspace is maintained through position reporting via HF (radio), CPDLC (texting) and ADS-B (GPS).
An aircraft may still be in Aus airspace, but due to unfavourable communication conditions, be controlled via relay through NZ ATC, and vice versa.
Aus ATC is part of a network of units in surrounding FIRs, Primary Guard being given to that unit which may maintain the most effective comms with the aircraft. As in the above example, this means that an aircraft in South African airspace may still be controlled via relay through Aus ATC if conditions merit it.
The relaying of comms generally does not involve the ATCO's, in Aus all HF comms for international aircraft are handled by Flightwatch International based in Brisbane. An aircraft in australia's airspace may be talking to a South African HF operator or vice-versa. The control of the aircraft is the sole responsibility of the ATCO that is responsible for the airspace the aircraft is in.

enemyMiG 8th Mar 2010 04:45

That's a better explanation (at least someone knows what they're doing!):ok:

brissyboy 8th Mar 2010 05:40

Thanks guys

Jimh91 8th Mar 2010 07:18

Hey guys first of all thanks for all your contributions to this thread - I have taken in alot of information from it!

I was just wondering if you know anyone young who has gone through the course as I am 18 and have just applied for ATC. Cheers

enemyMiG 8th Mar 2010 08:26

Hi Jimh91

There's a guy in our course who is only 19, God help him...

(apologies for the Redgum reference :suspect:)

amberale 8th Mar 2010 09:39

Back in the olden days you had to be 21 to hold an ATC licence.
I don't know what the regs are these days.

Radar coverage at useful levels maxes out at around 160 nm.
It is limited by line of sight and the curvature of the earth.
It's a bit hard to have radar heads floating in the ocean so no coverage out in the indian, pacific, southern oceans or the coral sea.

5miles 8th Mar 2010 11:52


The radar coverage in Aus is quite limited, the coverage is mostly limited to what we call the j-curve which basically gives radar coverage in an area from Adelaide around to Brisbane covering most of tassie at high levels. There is also some coverage about 250nm around Perth.
Radar coverage actually extends well north of Brisbane. High level aircraft are covered to about 200nm north of Cairns.


Having worked on Tops, I said at the time I got the transfer that had I gone into that group straight from the college I would have quit straight away
Yeah right.. :rolleyes:
I've never heard of a trainee quit on day one of final field training because of their allocated sectors.

Plazbot 9th Mar 2010 04:32

There were 3 (tree) on Tops alone last year who left while still well and truly bonded.

Alpha Foxtrot Romeo 9th Mar 2010 06:59

Hi all, just in the process of organising my Class 3 medical. It seems some places (or I should say, receptionists) don't even know what I'm asking them and the prices differ quite significantly... Anyone who has done their Class 3 in Brisbane, can you recommend your DAME?

Awol57 9th Mar 2010 08:18

The DAME will know, just not the receptionist. Tell them its similar to a Class 1 (if they know what that is).

Cookie7 9th Mar 2010 08:25

I can still hear that tumbleweed moving about the receptionists head...

If in doubt, ask to be put through direct to the GP in question!

mikethepomme 9th Mar 2010 08:40


Anyone who has done their Class 3 in Brisbane, can you recommend your DAME?
I was over the westside of brisbane, went to Dr G NORMAN, 07 3376 2855, sinnamon park.

Receptionist knew what they were talking about... they did all but the DAO stuff + blood test. He recommended a DAO that came out to sherwood, and i got the blood test bulk billed in indooroopilly from his referral

Costs were $261 DAME, $187 DAO, $75 CASA fee.

Hope that helps.

bris_rob 9th Mar 2010 12:16

7th June start
 
Hey people. Just discovered this forum.

From brisvegas, got offered a start on the 7th of june.

Noticed there is a couple (maybe a few) people from bris with the same offer. Thinking about accomodation and other issues, would be interested in others thoughts.

brissyboy 10th Mar 2010 04:31

Plenty in brisbane here's a few, they are on the CASA website
Dr J CAMERON (male)

Watkins Medical Centre
225 Wickham Terrace
BRISBANE QLD 4000
Ph: 07 3831 6081
Fax: 07 3832 7175

Dr M MCADAM (female)

289 Queen Street

BRISBANE QLD 4000
Ph: 07 3221 3366
Fax: 07 3221 3082

Dr R MCCARTNEY (male)

6/18 Dennis Rd
Springwood
BRISBANE QLD 4127
Ph: 07 3299 3211
Fax: 07 3208 5076

Dr J L YATES (male)

Anzac Square Medical Centre
280 Ann Street
BRISBANE QLD 4000
Ph: 07 3229 1344
Fax: 07 3221 2694


bris_rob at the moment its you, me, AU_Viper and AlphaFoxtrot Romeo from brissy heading down for the june course , definitely should all get together soon

Toboto 10th Mar 2010 08:55

Pre Course
 
How long before you start do you get the pre course study material?

enemyMiG 10th Mar 2010 12:56

We got the pre-course stuff about 5 weeks before starting, but were sent a heads-up email about a week before receiving everything.

You'll also get a "welcome to Melb" tourist guide to explain tricky things like hook turns and shopping centres (everyone gets it, even those of us lucky enough to be locals:confused:)

nick83 11th Mar 2010 04:32

I'm down the bottom waiting with you, Blippy! :bored:

brissyboy 11th Mar 2010 04:46

Hey Blippy

There are tower spots on the june course, not sure if they are filled yet

Laino 11th Mar 2010 05:15

I m the same Blippy & Nick83. I guess we will see these guys in the later half of the year. My referees haven't been contacted after 5 weeks of waiting since the email from AsA to update their details.

I know there were at least 4 tower spots on the June course after speaking to Casey.

Congrats Bris_Rob with getting in and discovering the forum it's a goodie.

Alpha Foxtrot Romeo 11th Mar 2010 07:14

Thanks to all for the information regarding DAME's... Have booked an appointment for next week. And yeah Cookie7, there's plenty of tumbleweed going around! For all of those about to make appointments for your Class 3 medical, some DAME's require you to already have an ARN (Aviation Reference Number) so they can lodge it online, you can find information regarding this and the form here:

Civil Aviation Safety Authority - Aviation Reference Number (ARN) FAQs

bris_rob 11th Mar 2010 10:11

Thanks Laino, looking forward to starting. Not looking forward to hook turns though... Not sure whether to take my qld plates off or leave them on :}. Most likely to be first hit by a tram is my guess.

So booking into to start the medical now is a good idea? I was going to wait until I got the mail out, but I might jump on it now judging by some of the comments here.

enemyMiG 12th Mar 2010 11:41

Finally out of the classroom and getting stuck into our blippy roles.
Quite a shock to suddenly feel like the world's dopiest bloke after getting through the theory with an average in the low to mid 90's (had to work damned hard, but as other posts have mentioned, some people seem to breeze it in :ugh:)

Really struggled the first couple of days with the influx of new info, but, as I've discovered with this course, you just have to keep hacking away until something clicks, and then something else will click.

Nichollg and I are currently blippying for the ADC (aerodrome controller), whilst the other 2 in our course are blippying for the SMC (surface movement controller). You get to play many different roles, from pilots to TMA Departures controllers to bugsmashers doing circuits. Great fun. We'll swap roles with the other 2 next week

bris rob, I'd get started on the medical as you never know what may be delayed. The receptionist for my DAME kept trying to send my medical results via post to the ARFF instead of CASA, because she knew best :hmm:. As a result, I didn't receive my Class3 until a couple of days prior to starting (although they did issue me with a Class2 as well).

Toboto 13th Mar 2010 03:24

Medical
 
Agree with enemyMiG, if you've been accepted get your ARN and then get your medical done ASAP, just recently contacted CASA to find somehow they or my doctor lost the audiogram results, doctor had to resend, called again this week, still said they didn't have it, i insisted they did and they managed to file it in some place they couldn't see it, finally all sorted (i hope)......mmmmmm

fivel 15th Mar 2010 11:31

agree with enemymig and toboto, get onto your medicals, or at least book in the sessions after youve got your arn. Can be weeks before an available appointment.

And just for you guys waiting on your referees to be checked. mind got checked the morning they rang me up to offer me a job. I had 1 and a bit months to move down and get my medical done. Didnt get my pre reading material till two weeks before i started.

Showa Cho 15th Mar 2010 11:36

Hi guys. For those of you at the Academy at the moment, what's the vibe like there from the staff? Do they seem happy/motivated/professional? Is the place well organised and are the sim and class sessions well structured? Just wondering if much has changed over the years. It looks like they are starting to genuinely take training seriously, and just wondering if it is starting to show. Thoughts appreciated.

Domo.

Showa-cho.

brissyboy 16th Mar 2010 03:51

For those who were on course during this recent christmas period, what is the leave period granted while on course? Trying to tee up some snow boarding in japan around then but want to be absolutely sure I will have the time off before making any bookings/commitments

Cheers

Showa Cho 16th Mar 2010 04:52

Blippy, I saw MiG's post too - wonder where it has gone?

There's nothing devious or commercially sensitive about my question - I see they have positions advertised there for instructors and was wondering what the atmosphere is like there. So, any info would be appreciated. PM if you like - the good and the bad.

Arigato,

Showa-Cho.

PS - Brissyboy - go to Nagano, not Nisseko like the rest of Oz - it's great. I give Tsugaieke the big thimbs up, in the Hakuba area.

cbradio 16th Mar 2010 05:34

if it is the post I think it was - I wouldn't have put it up in the first place.
Lots of people read this and no point giving them ammo at the start!

Unwanted nicknames have stuck for life over less! :)

enemyMiG 16th Mar 2010 06:33

Yeah, see cbradio's post above.
Got up this morning and had 2nd thoughts - I was worried that not commenting on something might be construed as a political opinion and wanted to make sure that I had more than the minimum 1 nm separation.
Didn't seem too relevant anyway, as most people already know how much I am enjoying the course and how professional and genuine the instructors are.

I wonder if the Mods might care to comment?

fivel 16th Mar 2010 09:33

well showa cho
ill put my two cents in. The vibe in the academy is great. My course is just starting to get to know each other and starting to chat to the other courses (which is hard cause they are busy and have different lunch time to us). But def all in it together.
A few organisational things id personally change but not loosing sleep over it.

ricciuto2 17th Mar 2010 12:58

hey all!

Excuse me enemyMIG, I'm 19 and got offered a position today. I was 18 when I applied.

tower or brisbane enroute, had about 10 seconds to decide haha but chose brisvegas.

course starts early june, looking for room mates!!! please contact me at [email protected]

The_AU_Viper, Alpha Foxtrot Romeo & brissyboy, I think I'm on your course.

2b2 17th Mar 2010 23:48


tower or brisbane enroute, had about 10 seconds to decide haha but chose brisvegas
that would be the place where all the happy people work who are trying to transfer to a tower! :)

gemmy 18th Mar 2010 12:04

Congrats to all who have been offered a spot on the upcoming courses! You will most likely receive your pre-course study material approx 5 weeks before course starts.... trust me - Read it all & get a head start on the course - It really does assist with the basics.

I agree with fivel & EnemyMiG...the vibe around the college is great.. course mates are great & like they said, the Instructors are approachable and professional.

We are at the end of week 3 & just got our roster for next week... 5 exams !! 4 on Friday. So a lot of study to be done.. did about 3-4hrs tonight.

We are working 0900-1600 Mon - Friday however that will change each month apparently. So don't just go on your 0730-1530 joining instructions especially if you have children. Flexibility is the Key !!

Cuong 19th Mar 2010 11:09

Hey guys
Got offered June 7th start for Brisbane enroute. Also looking for a roomy :) [email protected]

I have a question regarding the medical.. if you have a Class 1 will CASA be able to give you a Class 3 without having to re-do the tests?

Rolloffthetop 19th Mar 2010 11:50

Class 3 Medical
 
Cuong,

I have a class 1 and all I did was email Avmed requesting a 3. Got one sent out a week or so later. No tests, no money exchanged. Happy days!

ricciuto2 20th Mar 2010 05:48

I think it was, but not anymore, because I rang Casey back later that day and asked if I could have a while to decide but she said she'd already given the tower spot away!


All times are GMT. The time now is 15:24.


Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.