Airservices Australia recruiting
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Airservices Australia recruiting
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I applied for the regional tower positions and my application status changed to "Application under review" shortly after submitting(around 30 October) but about 2 days ago it changed back to "Application received" which i find odd. I hope my application was'nt misplaced
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Recruiting again for international applicants. Positions available at all locations. Closes 20 July.
Job details|Airservices
Job details|Airservices
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airservices recruiting foreigners
to all you guys/gals who are thinking of applying OR have applied and been accepted
I think it is important for you all to know that you are all being employed at the expense of an Australian citizen. To be honest its bloody disgusting, because the US, UK, and most if not all of Europe do not allow foreigners to be able to apply for jobs that a national could fill.
Before you say it yes, Germany did for while, but they actually could show they had a real shortage.
In Australia we don't, in Airservices case they are employing foreign nationals under 457 visa rules and some other visa bull**** rule, that is meant to only be allowed if there are NO locals who are not previously trained and rated there.
Unfortunately the case is that there are quite a number of local Aussie ex ATC employees of Airservices who have been trying to get back in over the last 4-5 years and being rejected by the employer and then hiring foreign nationals to fill the slots, at a far greater expense than to employ a local.
In one case there was one controller who was working overseas and current and he was told that "he was not a good corporate citizen" so bad luck, that's discrimination.
The government seems to turn a blind eye, but that will change soon once the lid is lifted and it will.
It could mean that those on 457 visas could be made to return home once the 2 years is up, If the government has a change of heart.
I think it is important for you all to know that you are all being employed at the expense of an Australian citizen. To be honest its bloody disgusting, because the US, UK, and most if not all of Europe do not allow foreigners to be able to apply for jobs that a national could fill.
Before you say it yes, Germany did for while, but they actually could show they had a real shortage.
In Australia we don't, in Airservices case they are employing foreign nationals under 457 visa rules and some other visa bull**** rule, that is meant to only be allowed if there are NO locals who are not previously trained and rated there.
Unfortunately the case is that there are quite a number of local Aussie ex ATC employees of Airservices who have been trying to get back in over the last 4-5 years and being rejected by the employer and then hiring foreign nationals to fill the slots, at a far greater expense than to employ a local.
In one case there was one controller who was working overseas and current and he was told that "he was not a good corporate citizen" so bad luck, that's discrimination.
The government seems to turn a blind eye, but that will change soon once the lid is lifted and it will.
It could mean that those on 457 visas could be made to return home once the 2 years is up, If the government has a change of heart.
I'm one who left but seriously, all the best to all applicants. OZ is short and getting experienced guys is a sensible move. Some blood from the real world can only be a good thing.
PMS said
WOW, what a post. Most ATCs don't care where their colleagues come from, as long as they are competent and easy to work with.
457 visas are used across a range of industries, aviation, mining, engineering. According to the website it mentions that a 457 visa lets a skilled worker travel to Australia to work in their nominated occupation for their approved sponsor for up to four years. 457 visas are a shared risk, a risk if the skilled worker leaves after 4 years, a risk is the skilled worker is asked to leave after 4 years.
There is no doubt that the world of ATC is both a closed shop is some cases and opening up in others. OZ ATC numbers are low across the board because of poor decisions made many years ago (scaling back recruiting, effectively shutting the ATC training college) and believing that quantity = quality (in terms of the numbers applying). OZ ATC numbers need to be boosted to cover an ageing workforce, for new services, new Towers, parallel runways at Brisbane, Melbourne and Perth and a transition to a new system (1SKY). And, potentially Badgery's Creek and the prospect of relocating Cairns APP/DEP to Brisbane, Adelaide APP/DEP & Sydney APP/DEP/DIR to Melbourne.
"not a good corporate citizen" - perhaps a period of self-reflection is required. Certainly there have been stories of some former employees giving minimal notice prior to leaving, send nasty "good bye and good riddance" emails.
to all you guys/gals who are thinking of applying OR have applied and been accepted
I think it is important for you all to know that you are all being employed at the expense of an Australian citizen. To be honest its bloody disgusting, because the US, UK, and most if not all of Europe do not allow foreigners to be able to apply for jobs that a national could fill.
Before you say it yes, Germany did for while, but they actually could show they had a real shortage.
In Australia we don't, in Airservices case they are employing foreign nationals under 457 visa rules and some other visa bull**** rule, that is meant to only be allowed if there are NO locals who are not previously trained and rated there.
Unfortunately the case is that there are quite a number of local Aussie ex ATC employees of Airservices who have been trying to get back in over the last 4-5 years and being rejected by the employer and then hiring foreign nationals to fill the slots, at a far greater expense than to employ a local.
In one case there was one controller who was working overseas and current and he was told that "he was not a good corporate citizen" so bad luck, that's discrimination.
The government seems to turn a blind eye, but that will change soon once the lid is lifted and it will.
It could mean that those on 457 visas could be made to return home once the 2 years is up, If the government has a change of heart.
I think it is important for you all to know that you are all being employed at the expense of an Australian citizen. To be honest its bloody disgusting, because the US, UK, and most if not all of Europe do not allow foreigners to be able to apply for jobs that a national could fill.
Before you say it yes, Germany did for while, but they actually could show they had a real shortage.
In Australia we don't, in Airservices case they are employing foreign nationals under 457 visa rules and some other visa bull**** rule, that is meant to only be allowed if there are NO locals who are not previously trained and rated there.
Unfortunately the case is that there are quite a number of local Aussie ex ATC employees of Airservices who have been trying to get back in over the last 4-5 years and being rejected by the employer and then hiring foreign nationals to fill the slots, at a far greater expense than to employ a local.
In one case there was one controller who was working overseas and current and he was told that "he was not a good corporate citizen" so bad luck, that's discrimination.
The government seems to turn a blind eye, but that will change soon once the lid is lifted and it will.
It could mean that those on 457 visas could be made to return home once the 2 years is up, If the government has a change of heart.
457 visas are used across a range of industries, aviation, mining, engineering. According to the website it mentions that a 457 visa lets a skilled worker travel to Australia to work in their nominated occupation for their approved sponsor for up to four years. 457 visas are a shared risk, a risk if the skilled worker leaves after 4 years, a risk is the skilled worker is asked to leave after 4 years.
There is no doubt that the world of ATC is both a closed shop is some cases and opening up in others. OZ ATC numbers are low across the board because of poor decisions made many years ago (scaling back recruiting, effectively shutting the ATC training college) and believing that quantity = quality (in terms of the numbers applying). OZ ATC numbers need to be boosted to cover an ageing workforce, for new services, new Towers, parallel runways at Brisbane, Melbourne and Perth and a transition to a new system (1SKY). And, potentially Badgery's Creek and the prospect of relocating Cairns APP/DEP to Brisbane, Adelaide APP/DEP & Sydney APP/DEP/DIR to Melbourne.
Unfortunately the case is that there are quite a number of local Aussie ex ATC employees of Airservices who have been trying to get back in over the last 4-5 years and being rejected by the employer and then hiring foreign nationals to fill the slots, at a far greater expense than to employ a local.
In one case there was one controller who was working overseas and current and he was told that "he was not a good corporate citizen" so bad luck, that's discrimination.
In one case there was one controller who was working overseas and current and he was told that "he was not a good corporate citizen" so bad luck, that's discrimination.
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I would've thought that Australians would be angry about the loss of skilled jobs to foreigners.
The 457 issue and skilled, available, Australians not being hired aside (and a piss-poor defence of that, btw, Sunny)......allowing AsA to get away with not training young Australians into the roles is disgraceful.
I wonder how many Australians with bright, young kids who would be perfectly suited to such a role, would be happy to learn that AsA pays foreigners a relocation of $40,000 to MOVE to Australia? $40grand would pay a lot of young people's airfares to get to a testing centre.
The 457 issue and skilled, available, Australians not being hired aside (and a piss-poor defence of that, btw, Sunny)......allowing AsA to get away with not training young Australians into the roles is disgraceful.
I wonder how many Australians with bright, young kids who would be perfectly suited to such a role, would be happy to learn that AsA pays foreigners a relocation of $40,000 to MOVE to Australia? $40grand would pay a lot of young people's airfares to get to a testing centre.
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Wow Gents, step by step here.
I am one of the "international experienced" who accepted to come half way round the world. And I do understand where these posts are coming from, the subject is also raised at a similar mood back at my country.
Didn't AsA ask for experienced Australian ATCOs in 2011?
Didn't AsA ask for experienced Australian ATCOs for Karratha, Broom and Alice Springs in 2012?
Didn't AsA ask for experienced Australian ATCOs again just a month or two ago?
Doesn't AsA recruit newbies every year?
Now why would they ask for more experienced controllers? Hmm...
Could it be they still don't have enough?
A number? Sorry to hear, trully. But as bussinesses are run by numbers not people, I'm guessing there's more than just money into these rejections.
The truth is, as was posted earlier in this thread, one doesn't compete against another, but against a standard. You either have it or you don't. And I'm sure the bright, young kids are excellent but perhaps, just perhaps, some are not fit for the job.
As for the $40000 at most, any ideas on how much is A YEARS' training costs to get a new ATCO at year one experience?
Looking forward to meeting you all. And talk it over again.
I am one of the "international experienced" who accepted to come half way round the world. And I do understand where these posts are coming from, the subject is also raised at a similar mood back at my country.
Didn't AsA ask for experienced Australian ATCOs for Karratha, Broom and Alice Springs in 2012?
Didn't AsA ask for experienced Australian ATCOs again just a month or two ago?
Doesn't AsA recruit newbies every year?
Now why would they ask for more experienced controllers? Hmm...
Could it be they still don't have enough?
Unfortunately the case is that there are quite a number of local Aussie ex ATC employees of Airservices who have been trying to get back in over the last 4-5 years and being rejected by the employer and then hiring foreign nationals to fill the slots, at a far greater expense than to employ a local.
I wonder how many Australians with bright, young kids who would be perfectly suited to such a role, would be happy to learn that AsA pays foreigners a relocation of $40,000 to MOVE to Australia? $40grand would pay a lot of young people's airfares to get to a testing centre.
As for the $40000 at most, any ideas on how much is A YEARS' training costs to get a new ATCO at year one experience?
Looking forward to meeting you all. And talk it over again.
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hiring non aussies
howdy ferris and thanks for the backup mate appreciate it.
As for you other tosspots like Sunny (seffer most likely)
etc. And tyler btw its not that time of the month, mate I am just sick of locals not being given a fair go (you know the Aussie way), if you cant accept that mate then I suggest you FO to some other part of the globe mate.
Plazbot, your an idiot stay out of it.
Its obvious you tools do not understand the ethos of AsA. Its predominately run by RAAFies now, and they do not want people who say no, or say gee I'm not sure about that is that safe etc.
They want YES people, basically they say "here is a pole and we are going to shove it up your a??e hole" and you will all say OK!
Thats why they have hired a lot of RAAFies over the years because they are brainwashed into never saying NO and be happy with the crumbs we give you. 'YES SIR YES SIR'
Its the same with foreigners coming here, they have given you a ticket to heaven and they know you will forever be thankful and take it up the arse because of that.
You are all fools if you believe that AsA are looking for the most experienced, they are only looking for yes people, that it in a nutshell.
We used to have one of the safest ATC systems in the world until TFN and the american hack before him were CEO's, and then everything was done at cost and safety became one of the least priorities and the company blockaded the union at every turn, its disgusting. Struth the new CEO has never been a CEO or executive in the public domain, spent years in RAAF in logistics and a year as commandant of the Australian Defence Force Academy where all the sexual harassment complaints have been raised recently...
so there is a good pedigree NOT.
It will take a major incident to occur before the pollies take a very close look at AsA and say "whoa what the hell has been happening here under our noses all this time .... why werent we told executive management has been white-anting the business for years".
Unfortunately getting in YES employees in will only help to manifest this problem, they need staff who are willing to stand up and say NO when the situation warrants, if anything thats why they dont want to hire any Aussie expats/experienced guys back cause that will cause them problems and if there are problems which cause the executives to not meet their KPI's and benchmarks then they dont get their BIG fat bonuses each year. its pretty simple really.
They only run the adds for experienced aussie controllers as a ruse so they can then run adds for international and say to the government look we cant get enough experienced aussies, we need 457's.
As for you other tosspots like Sunny (seffer most likely)
etc. And tyler btw its not that time of the month, mate I am just sick of locals not being given a fair go (you know the Aussie way), if you cant accept that mate then I suggest you FO to some other part of the globe mate.Plazbot, your an idiot stay out of it.
Its obvious you tools do not understand the ethos of AsA. Its predominately run by RAAFies now, and they do not want people who say no, or say gee I'm not sure about that is that safe etc.
They want YES people, basically they say "here is a pole and we are going to shove it up your a??e hole" and you will all say OK!
Thats why they have hired a lot of RAAFies over the years because they are brainwashed into never saying NO and be happy with the crumbs we give you. 'YES SIR YES SIR'
Its the same with foreigners coming here, they have given you a ticket to heaven and they know you will forever be thankful and take it up the arse because of that.
You are all fools if you believe that AsA are looking for the most experienced, they are only looking for yes people, that it in a nutshell.
We used to have one of the safest ATC systems in the world until TFN and the american hack before him were CEO's, and then everything was done at cost and safety became one of the least priorities and the company blockaded the union at every turn, its disgusting. Struth the new CEO has never been a CEO or executive in the public domain, spent years in RAAF in logistics and a year as commandant of the Australian Defence Force Academy where all the sexual harassment complaints have been raised recently...
so there is a good pedigree NOT. It will take a major incident to occur before the pollies take a very close look at AsA and say "whoa what the hell has been happening here under our noses all this time .... why werent we told executive management has been white-anting the business for years".
Unfortunately getting in YES employees in will only help to manifest this problem, they need staff who are willing to stand up and say NO when the situation warrants, if anything thats why they dont want to hire any Aussie expats/experienced guys back cause that will cause them problems and if there are problems which cause the executives to not meet their KPI's and benchmarks then they dont get their BIG fat bonuses each year. its pretty simple really.
They only run the adds for experienced aussie controllers as a ruse so they can then run adds for international and say to the government look we cant get enough experienced aussies, we need 457's.
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Fact of the matter is that the Academy is 100% chockers with AUSTRALIAN ab-intios and there is still a shortfall on endorsements gained. The 'experienced ATC' is open to everyone; expats, RAAFies - there have been plenty of ex-ASA employees return to the fold as well..one is instructing there atm if I'm not mistaken.
If you are on the shlt list though I guess it's stiff bikkies.
If you are on the shlt list though I guess it's stiff bikkies.
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kpnagidi: Being new to AsA, you probably are not familiar with many of the 'goings on' there. So, step by step
Yes, but AsA has something called the 'black list", an illegal 'phantom arrangement' whereby managers can veto a re-hiring. The reasons for achieving placement on the list are many and varied, from union activity, to being a pain-in-the-arse employee as described by PMS. As to why someone might write a $hit-o-gram on exit? The reasons are legion. Everything from being lied to (who in AsA hasn't been lied to by a manager?), shafted, illegally passed over for a promotion or transfer...as I said, legion. Not being re-hired because of that- petty. How many managers fit that description?
Experienced guys being asked to return and go to Karratha? A year or two might be an expected penance, but experienced guys KNOW AsA.
Until recently, the package for returners was pretty random. Often, the offer was to start again at the bottom. Hardly attractive or fair for someone with 20 years experience. I digress, just trying to give you some perspective.
No. Over the last 13 years, they have hired intermittently, much to the chagrin of everybody working the traffic. Some people, 'union agitators' etc. lobbied long and hard for AsA to address it's staff numbers- only to be met with staff cuts, college closure, etc. etc. Continue to drive the existing staff harder and harder to plug the holes (including going to industrial arbitration to be able to have 'compulsory overtime'!), less leave, almost impossible to transfer for career change/enhancement.... and the 'union agitator' leaves and gets placed on the black list. The managers responsible? NOT ONE FCKING BIT OF ACCOUNTABILITY.
Of course there is- and it's usually a case of poor management. As one who is on the list, I can tell you it sticks in the craw when told you are not a 'cultural fit' with an organisation whose CEO, AT THAT MOMENT, is misusing his corporate credit card and is subsequently discovered and fired. Cultural fit? FFS.
I do, actually, have some idea. That's not the point. 457 visas have become necessary due to MISMANAGEMENT. 457 visas not only affect the potential hiring of young Australians into skilled jobs, they undermine AsA itself. Internal movement ( a BIG issue) is stifled. How many existing employees would love a tower gig, or a go at approach? I bet AsA has been telling people the 457s are 'backfill', right? Lol. some things never change.
What's the answer? I could go into a long-winded speech, but I'll spare you. Suffice to say, these issues could be tackled in other ways (maybe have a look at what other countries do for a start). They might cost a little more than the AsA way, but those relocation costs would go some way to mitigate.
Though I am not interested in returning atm (although it would be nice to have the option), I have a child leaving school soon, and the 457 issue really pisses ME off. Politics- yet another method for '**** list' entry.
Didn't AsA ask for experienced Australian ATCOs in 2011?
Experienced guys being asked to return and go to Karratha? A year or two might be an expected penance, but experienced guys KNOW AsA.
Until recently, the package for returners was pretty random. Often, the offer was to start again at the bottom. Hardly attractive or fair for someone with 20 years experience. I digress, just trying to give you some perspective.
Doesn't AsA recruit newbies every year?
I'm guessing there's more than just money into these rejections.
As for the $40000 at most, any ideas on how much is A YEARS' training costs to get a new ATCO at year one experience?
What's the answer? I could go into a long-winded speech, but I'll spare you. Suffice to say, these issues could be tackled in other ways (maybe have a look at what other countries do for a start). They might cost a little more than the AsA way, but those relocation costs would go some way to mitigate.
If you are on the shlt list though I guess it's stiff bikkies.
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Well ferris and PMS, being new to AsA I really wouldn't dare comment on things that happened before my entanglement. But I read Hempy's post and it says it all for me.
As for taking ****, you should step in one of those RAAF guys shoes for a year and then complain.
If you're all bitter with previous management or the Goverment, you have the next elections to fix things...Don't take it out on the rest of the world.
And I'm still looking forward to meeting you all (nearly...except the tosspots! Real classy...)
As for taking ****, you should step in one of those RAAF guys shoes for a year and then complain.
If you're all bitter with previous management or the Goverment, you have the next elections to fix things...Don't take it out on the rest of the world.
And I'm still looking forward to meeting you all (nearly...except the tosspots! Real classy...)
