Spanish ATC
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reference the quote above from PPerez...
...as a working controller for over 30 years always within the London TMA I have had considerable sympathy with my colleagues in Spain and the way they have been disgracefully treated by the Spanish authorities.This is not to say I disregard the points made by the pilot fraternity as to the way things sometimes seem to be done in Spain,indeed in the days of jumpseat fam flights I have seen for myself the apparent favouritism shown towards national carriers.
The comment made by PPerez I find quite incredible however...any ATCO with a similar point of view would never make the grade here simply on grounds of attitude.It is a shame to say but to express views like this can only harm the cause of the Spanish ATCO and will lead to a significant loss of sympathy not only in the wider aviation world but also within ATC circles.
Fortunately I would trust that most of us out there will realise that this fellow must be in a minority almost of his own....I hope!
The comment made by PPerez I find quite incredible however...any ATCO with a similar point of view would never make the grade here simply on grounds of attitude.It is a shame to say but to express views like this can only harm the cause of the Spanish ATCO and will lead to a significant loss of sympathy not only in the wider aviation world but also within ATC circles.
Fortunately I would trust that most of us out there will realise that this fellow must be in a minority almost of his own....I hope!
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I´m back!!!!
Wow! didn´t expect some of you guys missed me so much. Sorry, some days at the coast to recharge batteries ...
To GAPSTER:
Sorry you didn´t like my comment. You will agree with me that everything I said is nothing but our daily job: we actually tell the pilots what to do and when to do it, don´t we?
Of course, the way I expressed this idea was intentional, as it was the response to a comment made by Mr/Mrs Chesty Morgan in the following terms (http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/4...ml#post5835310):
Sorry if I´m a little pissed off, but having to read some of the following comments doesn´t help much:
“Just wish some of there controller's could speak proper English that's understandable and actually speak into the microphone on the headset rather than talking into a bucket...” Whispering Giant
"and in Madrid, I have witnessed some of the worst ATC in Europe, from some of the most highly paid.”
"When flying, turns away of 90 degrees to allow spanish aircraft over/undertake. So frustrating but sadly you grow to accept that this is the Spanish way."
“They are the worlds most skilled controllers - at diverting other aircraft off track so that Spanish aircraft can over/undertake!
If only they were fair and honourable in their activities; they would then be respected by all, rather than laughed at.”
"and in Madrid, I have witnessed some of the worst ATC in Europe, from some of the most highly paid."
"In Madrid you guys always put SO much effort into vectoring non spanish aircraft to allow spanish aircraft to jump the queue! if you used those skills with your general controlling, the flow rates would improve massively."
"For me and all my colleagues, the ATC in Madrid is a joke, a sad one at that.
No respect for you guys whatsoever." kick the tires
“Are Spanish ATC really among the best paid in Europe while being (one of) the worst on the European continent? What a waste of money, I'd say!” sabenaboy
"10W you put a good case forward for why adherence to flight plans is important. However in this case I think it misses the point. Our Spanish colleagues are not doing this to fix the system. They are doing this because it supports their dispute with the Spanish government to protect the kind of things that are ironically refered to worldwide in industrial relations language as 'spanish practices'." lederhosen
"if the Germans and French and Swiss and even the Italians can get English down and use it why cant the Spanish controllers! there a joke."
“there a bunch of useless ****s”
"the bigger issue for me is THEY CANT SPEAK ENGLISH!"
"but they really really cant understand English."
"but I would trust my wallet to a Gypsy before I trust my life to air tragedy in spain! there a bunch of useless ****s" zerotohero
"The level of maturity of some ATCO's in the south of Europe is directly proportional to their english level." maybepilot
"Thought it was because of my callsign! Full sids and stars into Madrid with lights traffic. Was also denied a higher cruise level because we were filed at a lower level!! Totally unprofessional." TolTol
"It's a bunch of amateurs taking care of serious business." Fuel Dump
As of your hability to judge my aptitude by just reading a comment out of its context, well I can only congratulate you for been so gifted.
Regarding the deal that my (for the moment ...) union USCA signed with my (for the moment ...) company AENA, it is supposed to be only a temporary truce to allow some peace at work, but the real target is to sign a new Collective Agreement before the end of the year. The 200.000€ salary (BEFORE TAXES!) went from "average" per controller (in the minister´s own words) to "maximum" for some controllers if they work 1670 hrs. a year plus 80 hrs. overtime (1750 hrs a year for 200.000€ at ACC´s). But me and most of my colleagues would be happy with much less quid, but more family life, and that´s why around 8% voted NO to the deal.
See you around ...
Saludos!
To GAPSTER:
(...)
The comment made by PPerez I find quite incredible however...any ATCO with a similar point of view would never make the grade here simply on grounds of attitude.It is a shame to say but to express views like this can only harm the cause of the Spanish ATCO and will lead to a significant loss of sympathy not only in the wider aviation world but also within ATC circles.
Fortunately I would trust that most of us out there will realise that this fellow must be in a minority almost of his own....I hope!
The comment made by PPerez I find quite incredible however...any ATCO with a similar point of view would never make the grade here simply on grounds of attitude.It is a shame to say but to express views like this can only harm the cause of the Spanish ATCO and will lead to a significant loss of sympathy not only in the wider aviation world but also within ATC circles.
Fortunately I would trust that most of us out there will realise that this fellow must be in a minority almost of his own....I hope!
Of course, the way I expressed this idea was intentional, as it was the response to a comment made by Mr/Mrs Chesty Morgan in the following terms (http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/4...ml#post5835310):
Jesus Christ do you lot really think you deserve any respect after that performance.
(...)
The next time I receive an instruction from Spanish ATC I will have to think long and hard about following it as I can no longer be sure that it's coming from somebody who is concentrating on his job or just trying to make a point.
(...)
The next time I receive an instruction from Spanish ATC I will have to think long and hard about following it as I can no longer be sure that it's coming from somebody who is concentrating on his job or just trying to make a point.
“Just wish some of there controller's could speak proper English that's understandable and actually speak into the microphone on the headset rather than talking into a bucket...” Whispering Giant
"and in Madrid, I have witnessed some of the worst ATC in Europe, from some of the most highly paid.”
"When flying, turns away of 90 degrees to allow spanish aircraft over/undertake. So frustrating but sadly you grow to accept that this is the Spanish way."
“They are the worlds most skilled controllers - at diverting other aircraft off track so that Spanish aircraft can over/undertake!
If only they were fair and honourable in their activities; they would then be respected by all, rather than laughed at.”
"and in Madrid, I have witnessed some of the worst ATC in Europe, from some of the most highly paid."
"In Madrid you guys always put SO much effort into vectoring non spanish aircraft to allow spanish aircraft to jump the queue! if you used those skills with your general controlling, the flow rates would improve massively."
"For me and all my colleagues, the ATC in Madrid is a joke, a sad one at that.
No respect for you guys whatsoever." kick the tires
“Are Spanish ATC really among the best paid in Europe while being (one of) the worst on the European continent? What a waste of money, I'd say!” sabenaboy
"10W you put a good case forward for why adherence to flight plans is important. However in this case I think it misses the point. Our Spanish colleagues are not doing this to fix the system. They are doing this because it supports their dispute with the Spanish government to protect the kind of things that are ironically refered to worldwide in industrial relations language as 'spanish practices'." lederhosen
"if the Germans and French and Swiss and even the Italians can get English down and use it why cant the Spanish controllers! there a joke."
“there a bunch of useless ****s”
"the bigger issue for me is THEY CANT SPEAK ENGLISH!"
"but they really really cant understand English."
"but I would trust my wallet to a Gypsy before I trust my life to air tragedy in spain! there a bunch of useless ****s" zerotohero
"The level of maturity of some ATCO's in the south of Europe is directly proportional to their english level." maybepilot
"Thought it was because of my callsign! Full sids and stars into Madrid with lights traffic. Was also denied a higher cruise level because we were filed at a lower level!! Totally unprofessional." TolTol
"It's a bunch of amateurs taking care of serious business." Fuel Dump
As of your hability to judge my aptitude by just reading a comment out of its context, well I can only congratulate you for been so gifted.
Regarding the deal that my (for the moment ...) union USCA signed with my (for the moment ...) company AENA, it is supposed to be only a temporary truce to allow some peace at work, but the real target is to sign a new Collective Agreement before the end of the year. The 200.000€ salary (BEFORE TAXES!) went from "average" per controller (in the minister´s own words) to "maximum" for some controllers if they work 1670 hrs. a year plus 80 hrs. overtime (1750 hrs a year for 200.000€ at ACC´s). But me and most of my colleagues would be happy with much less quid, but more family life, and that´s why around 8% voted NO to the deal.
See you around ...
Saludos!
Gender Faculty Specialist
we actually tell the pilots what to do and when to do it, don´t we?
What you actually mean is you tell us what you'd like us to do, we then decide if it's safe to do so and then let you know that we are complying. If it's not safe then we aint doing it.
As far as your other comments go then I'd be getting the hint by now that there are many daily users of your "service" and they all appear to have a similar opinion of it's worth.
There's a not so subtle message in there somewhere!
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What you actually mean is you tell us what you'd like us to do, we then decide if it's safe to do so and then let you know that we are complying. If it's not safe then we aint doing it
ATC is not a service we provide to you pilots as individuals, it is a service we provide to AIR TRAFFIC in general to prevent collisions and promote a SAFE, ORDERLY and EFFICIENT flow.
Just because you sit on the pointy end does not mean you own the right to do as you wish. You only have control of the vehicle you are flying and you will do so under the rules established by the authorities who give you the permission to do so.
Take this example. Driving a car at a traffic light with traffic police. Clearly traffic police has the last say if he is controlling the junction. He tells you to stop at green light, you stop. He tells you to cross at red light you cross. If there are no cars around and he still tells you to stop at green, you will still stop. And finally; even if there are no cars around and the light is red, and he seems not to be there to control the junction to let you pass, you still wait for your green light. You do not boss him into taking control of your junction to let you pass. Same goes if he redirects you on other route away from your first intended, you can question why but don´t need to agree with the answer, you will still do as told unless he blatantly tells you to drive into a car or off a cliff. That is when you stop and question what the hell is he about. Until then you have to rely on his instructions still keeping an eye on things for as far as you can.
All people using the airspace, including the passengers and owners of the cargo and the owners of the planes you are flying are our clients, and our utmost duty is to them. You professional pilots, like us controllers, are just a mere tool to get things done in our part of the transport system. Not a sky god. You do your part of the job and let us do ours.
Also why the hell so many pilots act like as if they own the company? If you burn more fuel or you are delayed due to ATC instructions or weather report was wrong, well, it is not your fault, your duty is to report the reasons to your bosses and tell them to do something about it if they really care. If you filed one route or level, hoping you would get a direct or the real requested level anyhow and when you don´t, things go down the drain,that is your fault.
To be frank any complaint about ATC efficiency from the pilots land on deaf ears anyhow, you want to get things changed get your bosses on the move, they are the ones who could do anything about it.
I don't know about the rest of you but my recent experiences have been marginally better. Got some higher levels and directs last week. Still a tendency to ignore the first call, then come back after a short delay with a 'Station Calling?' with background noise from a Tapas bar. 
That said, and in fairness, there are just as many aircrew who miss the initial call because they're snoozing. I know, I've been there, done that!
Heading off down to AGP this afternoon, so we'll see whether things are improving. Wish me luck!
PS: P Perez: why have you posted a list of all the recent criticisms of Spanish ATC? Was it not depressing enough reading them the first time round?
That said, and in fairness, there are just as many aircrew who miss the initial call because they're snoozing. I know, I've been there, done that!
Heading off down to AGP this afternoon, so we'll see whether things are improving. Wish me luck!
PS: P Perez: why have you posted a list of all the recent criticisms of Spanish ATC? Was it not depressing enough reading them the first time round?
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All people using the airspace, including the passengers and owners of the cargo and the owners of the planes you are flying are our clients, and our utmost duty is to them. You professional pilots, like us controllers, are just a mere tool to get things done in our part of the transport system. Not a sky god. You do your part of the job and let us do ours.
Also why the hell so many pilots act like as if they own the company? If you burn more fuel or you are delayed due to ATC instructions or weather report was wrong, well, it is not your fault, your duty is to report the reasons to your bosses and tell them to do something about it if they really care. If you filed one route or level, hoping you would get a direct or the real requested level anyhow and when you don´t, things go down the drain,that is your fault.
To be frank any complaint about ATC efficiency from the pilots land on deaf ears anyhow, you want to get things changed get your bosses on the move, they are the ones who could do anything about it.
Also why the hell so many pilots act like as if they own the company? If you burn more fuel or you are delayed due to ATC instructions or weather report was wrong, well, it is not your fault, your duty is to report the reasons to your bosses and tell them to do something about it if they really care. If you filed one route or level, hoping you would get a direct or the real requested level anyhow and when you don´t, things go down the drain,that is your fault.
To be frank any complaint about ATC efficiency from the pilots land on deaf ears anyhow, you want to get things changed get your bosses on the move, they are the ones who could do anything about it.
British ATC seem to be the best I have encountered, followed very closely by the Dutch, Scandinavians and Germans. None are perfect, but they all understand their role very well and gives us the best support they can, and consequently are excellent at their job. They manage good levels and short cuts despite far greater traffic density. The Spanish seem to see aircraft as a way of justifying their over-sized state salaries and a nuisance. You seem to see it all as some kind of game. I pity your work patterns - they are awful, perhaps unsafe, but so is your attitude.
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Was descending into a mediterranean coastal airport in Spain yesterday when the ATC chica gave me a heading 20 degrees to the left, after a minute or so she gave me 20 additional degrees with such nervousness that I started looking around for traffic.
Of course I saw one guy climbing into us on our TCAS and actually even spotted him visually in the distance thanks to the good WX all over.
We got a TCAS traffic alert and I suspect the other guy got the same.
Not a single word of warning nor explanation from ATC who cleread us to descend through the other guy's altitude while he was climbing through ours on reciprocal courses.
Some minutes later APP got us under their guidance and vectored us for an ILS, they actually put us on an intercepting track that was about 120 degrees off the ILS final course and cleared us for the approach from that heading...I could not so believe what was happening it that I looked over the actual wind suspecting a major drift due to crosswinds but saw an easy westerly breeze at 12kts on my navigation display and our instruments were also working fine since I could see where we were.
There was no time to question a heading that would have had us intercepting the back course of an ILS in the wrong direction and decided to steer my aircraft using common sense and intercept my ILS from where it made more sense.
When it comes to Spain the common misconception of ATCO's telling pilots what to do and when couldn't be more wrong.
In Spain you've got to follow your basic instincts if you wanna survive until the next departure....
Of course I saw one guy climbing into us on our TCAS and actually even spotted him visually in the distance thanks to the good WX all over.
We got a TCAS traffic alert and I suspect the other guy got the same.
Not a single word of warning nor explanation from ATC who cleread us to descend through the other guy's altitude while he was climbing through ours on reciprocal courses.
Some minutes later APP got us under their guidance and vectored us for an ILS, they actually put us on an intercepting track that was about 120 degrees off the ILS final course and cleared us for the approach from that heading...I could not so believe what was happening it that I looked over the actual wind suspecting a major drift due to crosswinds but saw an easy westerly breeze at 12kts on my navigation display and our instruments were also working fine since I could see where we were.
There was no time to question a heading that would have had us intercepting the back course of an ILS in the wrong direction and decided to steer my aircraft using common sense and intercept my ILS from where it made more sense.
When it comes to Spain the common misconception of ATCO's telling pilots what to do and when couldn't be more wrong.
In Spain you've got to follow your basic instincts if you wanna survive until the next departure....
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So, you think the pilots are just a tool by which you control the aircraft?
I said;
You professional pilots, like us controllers, are just a mere tool to get things done in our part of the transport system.
I also said;
YOU do YOUR part of the job and let US do OURS.
Wrong attitude, and that's why your service is so bad.
British ATC seem to be the best I have encountered, followed very closely by the Dutch, Scandinavians and Germans.
It is only the pilots who are legally responsible for the safe conduct of the flight and whose backsides are in it, so it's up to the pilots to decide what needs to be done to achieve that safety. If that means not accepting ATC instructions, even in controlled airspace, then so be it. We are not just maggots on a screen and often have a better understanding of what is going on locally than a controller sitting several hundred miles away, like CBs, turbulence or aircraft/crew related issues. Many ATC controllers seem to have no idea of the physics of an aircraft, expecting simultaneous descents and speed reductions on receipt of very late instructions that just simply can't be achieved. Your comment about the flight level/short cut issue goes on to prove you have no concept about fuel costs or the amount of extra fuel companies allow their crews to carry.
CBs, your duty to clear away, as in the book, you have the right to deviate from the route and instructions, our job would be to coordinate, inform you of the danger/restricted/military areas or traffic you might be flying into and act accordingly.
Turbulence, if not severe and without declaring emergency, inside controlled airspace you wait till I tell you when you can vacate the level. Vacate level before that without proper excuse, you will get told off. Do that too often and the closest you will get to seeing a cockpit in flight will be through a photograph. You don't believe me, try it out..
If you cannot comply with an instruction as your aircraft cannot you tell us and we ammend. If you cannot comply with an instruction without any given reason when everyone else can then we doubt you.
I might be sitting hundred miles away but I can also see double or more than that on my radar screen, how far out can you see in your cockpit? I also know the intention as in flight plan of every single aircraft under my control, upto mid twenties in numbers at times. Intentions of how many of the aircraft do you know within your small area of perception be it via your TCAS screen or eyeball? How many times did I have pilots asking for higher with traffic right on top of them, or that will be converging within less than 10 mins.
Also if you think it is only the pilots who are legally responsible for the safe conducts of the flights, think again. There are few controllers put in prison and one even murdered by those who don´t seem to think so.
So get off your high horse and accept what you are. You don't make the rules, neither do we. You either play with the rules or drop out. We controllers are under NO LEGAL obligation to give you direct or a higher level than the one you have planned. We do it as a service NOT TO YOU AS A PILOT, but to your company and your clients. Any complaint from your side as a pilot to us will not get you far, you, AS WE, are nothing but a tool(a tool to the guys that pay you so you can make them money keeping their planes flying, not a tool to me to control your aircraft). You function as the bosses expect you to, you will continue getting paid. If my bosses ever tell me; no more directs or level above planned level, tough bananas to you. I will have to do as they tell me to. Best you can do is to convince your bosses to convince mine to give back the freedom to act as safe and efficient as I can inside the airspace responsibility of which was given to me.
Also for your info I am one of the controllers that will do all that he can within his powers to provide the best service possible. I question what's going on before jumping on a pilot's neck for not following clearences. I believe in communication with the pilots to keep them in the loop as far as the traffic load permits. Actually if my bosses ordered me to not to send directs or climb outside planned levels, I'd still stick my neck out and look for excuses or means to make it available.
I never declared what I think about working to rule or whether the spaniards are good controllers or deserve their salaries. I also haven't been pushed far enough as they supposedly have been.
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Hi all, here is a good example of when not to follow issued instructions!
No doubt most of you are already familiar with this incident.
On December 6, 1999, at about 8:35 p.m., United Airlines flight 1448, a Boeing 757, was involved in a runway incursion on runway 5 Right at Theodore Francis Green State Airport, near Providence, Rhode Island. At the time of the incident, it was dark and the reported visibility was one-quarter mile.
After United 1448 landed on runway 5 Right, the tower controller instructed the flight crew to proceed to the terminal using taxiways November and Tango, and report crossing runway 16. During their taxi in the fog, the flight crew became disoriented and turned onto taxiway Bravo by mistake. They then provided incorrect position reports to the tower controller. The airplane ended up at the intersection of Runway 16 and Runway 23 left. Note that Runways 23 Left and 5 Right are opposite ends of the same runway. Shortly afterward, a Federal Express aircraft taking off from runway 5 Right passed very close to United 1448. The subsequent conversation between the tower controller and United 1448 shows continued uncertainty about the aircraft's position. For example, there will be several references to Runway 23 right while the airplane is actually on 23 left.
Link to the clip, quite scary me think.....
YouTube - Runway Incursion Providence POV Simulation
No doubt most of you are already familiar with this incident.
On December 6, 1999, at about 8:35 p.m., United Airlines flight 1448, a Boeing 757, was involved in a runway incursion on runway 5 Right at Theodore Francis Green State Airport, near Providence, Rhode Island. At the time of the incident, it was dark and the reported visibility was one-quarter mile.
After United 1448 landed on runway 5 Right, the tower controller instructed the flight crew to proceed to the terminal using taxiways November and Tango, and report crossing runway 16. During their taxi in the fog, the flight crew became disoriented and turned onto taxiway Bravo by mistake. They then provided incorrect position reports to the tower controller. The airplane ended up at the intersection of Runway 16 and Runway 23 left. Note that Runways 23 Left and 5 Right are opposite ends of the same runway. Shortly afterward, a Federal Express aircraft taking off from runway 5 Right passed very close to United 1448. The subsequent conversation between the tower controller and United 1448 shows continued uncertainty about the aircraft's position. For example, there will be several references to Runway 23 right while the airplane is actually on 23 left.
Link to the clip, quite scary me think.....
YouTube - Runway Incursion Providence POV Simulation
You blindly follow Spanish ATC instructions at your peril.
I have been put to 'the next Freq' stupidly hot and high and been told to report 6 mile final!
I've have been told to decend below MSA so many times.
Over a decade of operating into Spain and I'm still astonished at what they do, and don't do what they should... Pathetic.
Any area controller in the UK would be shocked at what they get very well paid to do, and do rather badly on occasion!
Does any one wonder why Sim drivers try to pop you into a mountain, I don't!!
Oh, and lets speak to locals in local so as to cause more confusion shall we, sounds like a great idea to me. NOT.
I have been put to 'the next Freq' stupidly hot and high and been told to report 6 mile final!
I've have been told to decend below MSA so many times.
Over a decade of operating into Spain and I'm still astonished at what they do, and don't do what they should... Pathetic.
Any area controller in the UK would be shocked at what they get very well paid to do, and do rather badly on occasion!
Does any one wonder why Sim drivers try to pop you into a mountain, I don't!!
Oh, and lets speak to locals in local so as to cause more confusion shall we, sounds like a great idea to me. NOT.
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Laylolay
Is this a good enough reason?!
Keep your eyes open old chap!
Can you tell me which part of the last 6 or so months of Spanish "work to rule" has promoted efficiency?
You better have a very good reason for not complying with any ATC instruction inside controlled airspace.
If it's not safe then we aint doing it
promote a SAFE, ORDERLY and EFFICIENT flow.
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C.Morgan,
Of course it is as you know it. But your attitude to me sounded to more than just unsafe clearences, hence my answer. Never follow any clearence blindly anywhere in the world, not just in spain. There is a difference between vigilence and rebellious know it allness.
And to those complaining about lack of safety in spain; how many has actually complained through the official channels and demanded follow up. It is not only the spanish CAA you can complain to if they fail to respond, you know that, right?
About work to rule in spain, doubt that was about improving efficiency. On the contrary if you take away the freedom to make certain decisions from the ops people to admins you will have negative effect on the efficiency. So if it was bad it just got worse, that, I believe was the point they were trying to make.
Of course it is as you know it. But your attitude to me sounded to more than just unsafe clearences, hence my answer. Never follow any clearence blindly anywhere in the world, not just in spain. There is a difference between vigilence and rebellious know it allness.
And to those complaining about lack of safety in spain; how many has actually complained through the official channels and demanded follow up. It is not only the spanish CAA you can complain to if they fail to respond, you know that, right?
About work to rule in spain, doubt that was about improving efficiency. On the contrary if you take away the freedom to make certain decisions from the ops people to admins you will have negative effect on the efficiency. So if it was bad it just got worse, that, I believe was the point they were trying to make.
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maybepilot (or not ) said:
"Of course I saw one guy climbing into us on our TCAS and actually even spotted him visually in the distance thanks to the good WX all over.
We got a TCAS traffic alert and I suspect the other guy got the same."
Do you really know how TCAs works ? If you receive a TA the other traffic ALSO. First lesson.
"Of course I saw one guy climbing into us on our TCAS and actually even spotted him visually in the distance thanks to the good WX all over.
We got a TCAS traffic alert and I suspect the other guy got the same."
Do you really know how TCAs works ? If you receive a TA the other traffic ALSO. First lesson.
LAYLOLAY- Funny that you think I'm a spanish controller in spain (was it the anonymous latin sounding LayLoLay name that fooled you into that?), well news flash to you, I am neither. I actually control in one of the air spaces you claim to be the best.
After his rants I would be VERY surprised if he wasnt based in MAD! He certainly doesnt have the attitude we've all grown to admire from the nations listed by Whippersnapper
British ATC seem to be the best I have encountered, followed very closely by the Dutch, Scandinavians and Germans.
Oh yes, I wonder how long it took perez to cut and paste that long list of his? Still dont know why he did it!
It's been said before but it's worth reiterating: surely this is not an issue of the technical or legal definitions of how ATC works, who is responsible for what, or how TCAS works; it is a simple issue of attitude to the job and professionalism.
Hiding behind staid and mind-numbing issues such as CTOT and cruise levels on a FPL shows an inflexible and unhelpful attitude to the job. I don't give a damn who is there to serve whom! I am friendly and helpful to my fellow crew, dispatchers, the pax and ATC because I want to be friendly and helpful. Offering or agreeing to requests for higher levels or shortcuts, even if it gives you a little extra work to do demonstrates flexibility, helpfulness and professionalism.
The point completely missed by all the defenders of Spanish ATC is that almost every other national ATC service manages to employ people, and operate their skies, with a better attitude to the job. Flying through most north European airspace you are usually struck by the professional and helpful attitude of the controllers. It's almost as though they enjoy their jobs! Not so in Spain, where, if you can hear them at all through the poor equipment and linguistics, you always feel like you're intruding on their private time.
As an aside: Cleared take off at a certain Spanish airport yesterday and 2 large happy-looking birds started to walk slowly across the runway about 100ft ahead of us. Upon notifying Tower that we would have to wait a few seconds for them to cross before rolling, we were met with an incredulous expression of dismay and annoyance from ATC who felt it jolly rude of us to delay for safety reasons, especially as there was traffic at 10 miles...
Hiding behind staid and mind-numbing issues such as CTOT and cruise levels on a FPL shows an inflexible and unhelpful attitude to the job. I don't give a damn who is there to serve whom! I am friendly and helpful to my fellow crew, dispatchers, the pax and ATC because I want to be friendly and helpful. Offering or agreeing to requests for higher levels or shortcuts, even if it gives you a little extra work to do demonstrates flexibility, helpfulness and professionalism.
The point completely missed by all the defenders of Spanish ATC is that almost every other national ATC service manages to employ people, and operate their skies, with a better attitude to the job. Flying through most north European airspace you are usually struck by the professional and helpful attitude of the controllers. It's almost as though they enjoy their jobs! Not so in Spain, where, if you can hear them at all through the poor equipment and linguistics, you always feel like you're intruding on their private time.
As an aside: Cleared take off at a certain Spanish airport yesterday and 2 large happy-looking birds started to walk slowly across the runway about 100ft ahead of us. Upon notifying Tower that we would have to wait a few seconds for them to cross before rolling, we were met with an incredulous expression of dismay and annoyance from ATC who felt it jolly rude of us to delay for safety reasons, especially as there was traffic at 10 miles...
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: FL410
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Amusing incident a couple of days back... Spanish controller needs someone to climb to FL400, presumably to make his life easier. How we chuckled as almost every request was met with "unable". One guy even said "no we're filed at FL360, so can't climb". We were genuinely too heavy to climb, but it was nice to see the boot on the other foot for once. Point made I think.