UK - NATS Pay negotiations - latest rumours
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"at least one individual refused to cancel his rostered AAVA "
This sort of thing is ridiculous. The agreement states that you can do the shift if the company does not give 48 notice of cancellation (in certain circumstances).
What sort of person would have the bo***x to actually go in, with the company losing all that money. Hopefully the individual concerned is put on a "black list" by the ORO permanently. It is not rocket science!
This sort of thing is ridiculous. The agreement states that you can do the shift if the company does not give 48 notice of cancellation (in certain circumstances).
What sort of person would have the bo***x to actually go in, with the company losing all that money. Hopefully the individual concerned is put on a "black list" by the ORO permanently. It is not rocket science!
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What if the period of notice was less than 48 hours, considerably less?
Then is it appropriate?
It should also be noted that there is considerably more than one signature in the AAVA book within the last 5 days....
Then is it appropriate?
It should also be noted that there is considerably more than one signature in the AAVA book within the last 5 days....
.
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What if the period of notice was less than 48 hours, considerably less?
Then is it appropriate?
Then is it appropriate?
Those who did go in for an AAVA knowing there was a zero rate applied could easily have done the responsible thing by contacting the ORO (who may well have been pretty busy doing other things) and actually asking if they were really needed for the duty. That way we may be congratulating them on their pragmatic approach rather than asking for them to be put on a black list. I believe all of those that are cancelled are now promised that they will be given priority for the next one anyway.
What sort of person would have the bo***x to actually go in
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Surprising myself, I completely agree with Zooker, this sort of thing could only happen at Swanwick. At most units there is a better understanding of the real world, and how tough it is, so people are more proactive in making the system work. Shift swaps are done to meet the task instead of AAVAs because the unit can't afford them easily. Perhaps this is seen a stupid, but it ensures that we keep a job, and ensure the CUSTOMER is happy. That is what some people forget, we are a service industry, and have customers. Please understand this is not a 'go' at Swanwick in general, there are a lot of really good people there, but there are some pretty poor apples too, and they drag the rest of the unit down.
Once upon a time, many years ago, ATCOs would be known to do extra hours work or whole shift swaps at short notice for little more than the warm feeling it gave us to be one of the 'hands on deck' keeping the system going. In those days one could also easily swap shifts with a colleague or get someone to go in and work one's shift for the going rate (about £3 2s 6d wasn't it?). Then goodwill started to go down the pan coincidental with having to "work as a business", so rather than working for goodwill or a few hours overtime, it was decreed that we would take a non-pentionable lump sum for attendance. People fought each other to take the dirty money and were quickly working up to the maximum allowed and goodwill continued to be a thing of the past. Large sums would be needed to get anyone in to work outside core rostered hours. Now when someone has got their jealously prized AAVA is it any wonder that they are unwilling to have the goodwill to give it up because management have changed their minds?
The only real answer is to have appropriate levels of staffing and do away with the corrosive AAVA agreement before the rot sets in permanently.
Sadly, back in the real world, too many have got used to the extra cash and will always say yes to more and there have never been realistic staffing levels as management always aim for just enough and not sufficient to provide a hedge against other ANSPs poaching our underpaid staff or medical losses, suprise retirements (it must come as a REAL shock to management that someone with 40 years service could be interested in hanging up the headset).
The only real answer is to have appropriate levels of staffing and do away with the corrosive AAVA agreement before the rot sets in permanently.
Sadly, back in the real world, too many have got used to the extra cash and will always say yes to more and there have never been realistic staffing levels as management always aim for just enough and not sufficient to provide a hedge against other ANSPs poaching our underpaid staff or medical losses, suprise retirements (it must come as a REAL shock to management that someone with 40 years service could be interested in hanging up the headset).
More than just an ATCO
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Dan Dare It's not just with NATS or ATC in general.
There has been a total disappearance of professional pride. A legacy from tne me, me, me days of Thatcherism passed on to that generation's children?
PS FFS move this to your own private forum. Imagine the field day the press will have with some of the sentiments posted here when the first airline stops ops.
There has been a total disappearance of professional pride. A legacy from tne me, me, me days of Thatcherism passed on to that generation's children?
PS FFS move this to your own private forum. Imagine the field day the press will have with some of the sentiments posted here when the first airline stops ops.
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Might encourage a few more people to take early retirement. The "pay" rises on the pension are certainly better at the moment. Long may it last.
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Actually the RPI of 4.8% was for July, August RPI will be released on 14th September, although it will be very similiar. After the mockery of the last pay deal I don't think Prospect will dare come away and recommend any less than RPI. I just hope that they don't leave it too long to negotitate a deal, it caught them out last time when the RPI was falling. Prospect have got a lot of ammo to use at the moment with the excessive management bonuses and £78 million profits.
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A little bird told me that the www.atcos.co.uk website is being revamped as we speak so there may be a couple of new articles soon.
In the last NTUS statement the unions state that they will issue further briefings once there is something useful to report. So maybe there isn't anything new at the moment. Management are probably still recovering after the announcement that the August RPI was 4.7%
In the last NTUS statement the unions state that they will issue further briefings once there is something useful to report. So maybe there isn't anything new at the moment. Management are probably still recovering after the announcement that the August RPI was 4.7%
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Now Im not at Swanwick, but at the top of this page a colleague (yes I still believe we are still colleagues) was being slated for taking an offered unnecessary AAVA. The choice was his, but can someone explain the bit about the company losing money.
Also can you really put this colleague in anything like the same league as the Red Baron and Bob Hoskins.
I realise I'm some months late with this comment, but, boys let's show a little perspective. Our colleague cost the company a few hundred quid. The other 2 have cost the company MILLIONS and as a direct result of their management we are going to move from a part-privatised company (which is bad enough) to a fully privatised company, you may blame the recession, but, remember all the conversations from a year or more ago; and there is c$%k all we can do about it.
At least we appear to have an honest CEO who tells us we are going to be screwed, rather than one who informs us why we have a rather painful feeling in the backside.
The Greebs
Also can you really put this colleague in anything like the same league as the Red Baron and Bob Hoskins.
I realise I'm some months late with this comment, but, boys let's show a little perspective. Our colleague cost the company a few hundred quid. The other 2 have cost the company MILLIONS and as a direct result of their management we are going to move from a part-privatised company (which is bad enough) to a fully privatised company, you may blame the recession, but, remember all the conversations from a year or more ago; and there is c$%k all we can do about it.
At least we appear to have an honest CEO who tells us we are going to be screwed, rather than one who informs us why we have a rather painful feeling in the backside.
The Greebs
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Yahoo!@
"and they have abandoned ATCOs.co.uk anyone heard of any whispers, or heard of any progress?"
No, you won't.
You're in troubled times and promotions are at stake.
Don't worry though.......
"Lots of work is going on behind the scenes".
"and they have abandoned ATCOs.co.uk anyone heard of any whispers, or heard of any progress?"
No, you won't.
You're in troubled times and promotions are at stake.
Don't worry though.......
"Lots of work is going on behind the scenes".
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Dan Dare & Greebson....bravo!
So called 'goodwill' is what has kept our unit running for the last few years, and now we are having it thrown back in our faces. "Yes, you helped out through the bad times, but you PROVED that you can work short, and now we're cutting staff". I have never felt so let down. Since when did safe, orderly and expeditious become CHEAP, safe, orderly and expeditious?? We don't have enough staff to even cover the available AAVAs and I find it laughable that colleagues at other (busier) units can't see what's coming their way. We are being divided and conquered...seems like we're gonna lie down and make it easy. My goodwill disappeared a long time ago...sorry if that upsets you
So called 'goodwill' is what has kept our unit running for the last few years, and now we are having it thrown back in our faces. "Yes, you helped out through the bad times, but you PROVED that you can work short, and now we're cutting staff". I have never felt so let down. Since when did safe, orderly and expeditious become CHEAP, safe, orderly and expeditious?? We don't have enough staff to even cover the available AAVAs and I find it laughable that colleagues at other (busier) units can't see what's coming their way. We are being divided and conquered...seems like we're gonna lie down and make it easy. My goodwill disappeared a long time ago...sorry if that upsets you
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I'm not sure what the info coming out of Prospect is... but I know PCS had held back on giving out any info on the 'negotiations' but finally reached a point where they said they felt the offer coming from NATS was so insulting that they were compelled to make it public knowledge.
My guess is if there is no significantly improved offer forthcoming then they'll be putting it to the members' vote with a recommendation to reject. We're then into ballot for industrial action territory.
My personal impression is a number of the senior guys (in PCS anyway) are fully aware that they're under pressure from some questionable judgement calls the last time round and are ready to dig in.
My guess is if there is no significantly improved offer forthcoming then they'll be putting it to the members' vote with a recommendation to reject. We're then into ballot for industrial action territory.
My personal impression is a number of the senior guys (in PCS anyway) are fully aware that they're under pressure from some questionable judgement calls the last time round and are ready to dig in.
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a part of our business empire cannot afford much of an increase in pay rates due to the nature of the contracts
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Call me old fashioned but it is not "your business" it is "their business" and it is in their interests to destroy your pension, reduce your salaries and other terms and conditions as that is their job.
Your job is to stop them.
By the way, its called capitalism!!
Your job is to stop them.
By the way, its called capitalism!!