UK - NATS Pay negotiations - latest rumours
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its not going to make any difference what Union (s) represent the NATS staff
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"Unfortunately not enough people question what they are told.."
don't agree. The majority question everything and anything money-related in this Company, but they haven't got the balls to stand up to challenge Mgmt if and when neccessary. Its all down to self-preservation - a big dose of loading the gun, letting others fire the bullets, and hoping for a result.
777
Those with the front to challenge the Mgmt are the ones who think like 'Union' people, and accept and believe in 'Union' principles. The majority of NATS staff do not fall into this category.
don't agree. The majority question everything and anything money-related in this Company, but they haven't got the balls to stand up to challenge Mgmt if and when neccessary. Its all down to self-preservation - a big dose of loading the gun, letting others fire the bullets, and hoping for a result.
777
Those with the front to challenge the Mgmt are the ones who think like 'Union' people, and accept and believe in 'Union' principles. The majority of NATS staff do not fall into this category.
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Nats financial results 08/09 should be out in 7 days 
, nice timing eh?
£67 MILLLION profit last year ( before tax)
Bet they make about £25 miilion profit for 08/09, despite giving away £43 million in dividends unnecessarily
07/08
Financial statements NATS Limited
for the year ended 31 March 2008
The financial statements were approved by the Board of directors on 26 June 2008 and signed on its behalf by
Chairman John Devaney
Finance Director Nigel Fotherby
, nice timing eh?£67 MILLLION profit last year ( before tax)
Bet they make about £25 miilion profit for 08/09, despite giving away £43 million in dividends unnecessarily
07/08
Financial statements NATS Limited
for the year ended 31 March 2008
The financial statements were approved by the Board of directors on 26 June 2008 and signed on its behalf by
Chairman John Devaney
Finance Director Nigel Fotherby
Last edited by Vote NO; 20th Jun 2009 at 16:47.
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White Hart
I can say I don't agree on this as I've heard countless times "What do you think?" without really listening to the answer to their question, or "I could do with the back pay money this month"!! Thinking in the short term has got us to this stage.
The majority question everything and anything money-related in this Company,
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just to clarify - my statement should have read 'The majority question everything and anything money-related on a purely personal basis in this Company.'
The 'short term thinking' you refer to is the reason why the workforce is so weak at the bargaining table. The majority only look for the immediate personal gain, and not at the bigger issue. They may well 'talk the talk', but in reality they'd rather take something - anything - in preference to standing up and fighting for what may be better in the long run. They sure as hell won't jeopardise themselves in any way whatsoever in support or defence of themselves or others.
That's why the 'yes' or 'can't be arsed to' vote prevails. That's why it would make no difference as to which Union represented you. That's why you're fcukd.
The 'short term thinking' you refer to is the reason why the workforce is so weak at the bargaining table. The majority only look for the immediate personal gain, and not at the bigger issue. They may well 'talk the talk', but in reality they'd rather take something - anything - in preference to standing up and fighting for what may be better in the long run. They sure as hell won't jeopardise themselves in any way whatsoever in support or defence of themselves or others.
That's why the 'yes' or 'can't be arsed to' vote prevails. That's why it would make no difference as to which Union represented you. That's why you're fcukd.
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White Hart
I didn't mean to sound as though we were in a good place!!!..I should have said "got us in the clag or mess we are in now"
Thinking in the short term has got us to this stage
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To all those who are resigning their Union membership in disgust:
Remember that the Union does not only deal with pay, but also with employee rights and advice.
If you resign your membership, you'd better hope you don't find yourself on a disciplinary investigation one day (perhaps for letting your LCC or medical expire despite the many reminders
) and wonder why the chair next to you is empty... £15 or so per month will seem a bit of a short-term saving then.
I also hope the Union is checking that anyone who requests their support in these cases is indeed a member!!
Remember that the Union does not only deal with pay, but also with employee rights and advice.
If you resign your membership, you'd better hope you don't find yourself on a disciplinary investigation one day (perhaps for letting your LCC or medical expire despite the many reminders
) and wonder why the chair next to you is empty... £15 or so per month will seem a bit of a short-term saving then.I also hope the Union is checking that anyone who requests their support in these cases is indeed a member!!
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Remember that the Union does not only deal with pay, but also with employee rights and advice.
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Hey Nimmer,
Funny Stuff!
Reminds me of a mechanic friend from years back who was a member of GUSSET (general union for small self-employed traders)!!! They were fractionally better than Prospect!
eyeinthesky,
Regarding representation if you leave the union; can't speak for local representation but GATCO a good option if you want legal cover. Money better spent IMHO!
CR.
Funny Stuff!
Reminds me of a mechanic friend from years back who was a member of GUSSET (general union for small self-employed traders)!!! They were fractionally better than Prospect!
eyeinthesky,
Regarding representation if you leave the union; can't speak for local representation but GATCO a good option if you want legal cover. Money better spent IMHO!
CR.
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Your faith is touching - if only it were that simple.
3 of the last 4 OJTI payments I have had have been incorrect.
I am still waiting for a breakdown of the most recent quarterly payment which was paid in April.
Doesn't exactly fill me with confidence or hope that some manager won't be trying to pull a fast one.
Anyone else have problems or is it just the second class citizens ?
3 of the last 4 OJTI payments I have had have been incorrect.
I am still waiting for a breakdown of the most recent quarterly payment which was paid in April.
Doesn't exactly fill me with confidence or hope that some manager won't be trying to pull a fast one.
Anyone else have problems or is it just the second class citizens ?
On another note - The annual accounts will be out this Thurs afternoon or Friday morning at the latest.
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11K-AVML
mr.777
How does this wish for ATCOs & CTC to work together square with your posting on another thread
mr.777
I 'm sure if you or one of your ATCO friends that have been posting photos of Office Monkeys could explain everyone who isn't an ATCO would be most interested.
Until then we might think you are a little juvenile (to say the least)
It would be good it ATCOs and CTC could work in partnership for a change.
ATCO's seeing CTCer's point of view, CTCer's seeing ATCO's point of view rather than being played off against one another by senior management.
ATCO's seeing CTCer's point of view, CTCer's seeing ATCO's point of view rather than being played off against one another by senior management.
As much as I agree with you 11K, it'll never happen while we are in different Unions...now if we all joined ASLEF/RMT.....
mr.777
I will however go out of my way, particularly in summer, to make myself look as scruffy as is humanly possible when I go to CTC because I know it pisses them all off... "Look at the scruffy ATCO, what a disgrace"...yeah, get ****ed office monkey.
Until then we might think you are a little juvenile (to say the least)
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Frank Disclosure
.
Someone passed comments.you returned fire..they returned...yeah, yeah yeah
Its all getting a little tedious now..I'm sure you are big enough and ugly enough to let it go..PLEEAASSE...for Gods sake grow up..life moves on.!!!
Rant over.
And please no return fire.
.
Someone passed comments.you returned fire..they returned...yeah, yeah yeah
Its all getting a little tedious now..I'm sure you are big enough and ugly enough to let it go..PLEEAASSE...for Gods sake grow up..life moves on.!!!
Rant over.
And please no return fire.
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ATCO's and CTC'ers working together!
A great idea and about time. So ok there are a lot of people who work at CTC that could work anywhere. Accountants, solicitors (no, not that type), Human Factors, Facilities management... the list is long. In any organisation these people have a role to play, its just seems that there are a lot of them and they, for the most part, do not understand ATC at all.
Then there are the people that do. I know of a number of ATCO's and ATSA/T&S grades that have a great deal of ATC experience and systems development does not always require copntroller input, in my opinion if its a tool a controller will use then they must be the final hurdle for acceptance (AMAN - throat cleared). Maybe there is some of the old ATSA's have no purpose/lower life form (always makes me laugh that) where ATCO's don't think that any other grade could possibly understand what you do? Bllks!!!
This may be a shock but here goes - I strongly believe the following:
1. Some NATS ATCO's are SIGNIFICANTLY UNDERPAID. I can only give my opinion on Swanwick (TC & AC), Heathrow and Gatwick. The caveat being that they actually spend their working time controlling air traffic, not sitting in an office. (Copenhagen ATCO, 2 sectors = £100k).
2. NATS managers are, for the most part SIGNIFICANTLY OVERPAID. Mainly because many are ex/nonop ATCO's, or that their salaries are (conveniently) based on what ATCO's earn.
3. The fact that the railway children are paid more than paperboys amazes me.
5. I hope and pray that the next CE (Roll on next April) will sack the lot of them so we can be rid of their playground bully management style!
Rant over
A great idea and about time. So ok there are a lot of people who work at CTC that could work anywhere. Accountants, solicitors (no, not that type), Human Factors, Facilities management... the list is long. In any organisation these people have a role to play, its just seems that there are a lot of them and they, for the most part, do not understand ATC at all.
Then there are the people that do. I know of a number of ATCO's and ATSA/T&S grades that have a great deal of ATC experience and systems development does not always require copntroller input, in my opinion if its a tool a controller will use then they must be the final hurdle for acceptance (AMAN - throat cleared). Maybe there is some of the old ATSA's have no purpose/lower life form (always makes me laugh that) where ATCO's don't think that any other grade could possibly understand what you do? Bllks!!!
This may be a shock but here goes - I strongly believe the following:
1. Some NATS ATCO's are SIGNIFICANTLY UNDERPAID. I can only give my opinion on Swanwick (TC & AC), Heathrow and Gatwick. The caveat being that they actually spend their working time controlling air traffic, not sitting in an office. (Copenhagen ATCO, 2 sectors = £100k).
2. NATS managers are, for the most part SIGNIFICANTLY OVERPAID. Mainly because many are ex/nonop ATCO's, or that their salaries are (conveniently) based on what ATCO's earn.
3. The fact that the railway children are paid more than paperboys amazes me.
5. I hope and pray that the next CE (Roll on next April) will sack the lot of them so we can be rid of their playground bully management style!
Rant over
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I hope and pray that the next CE (Roll on next April) will sack the lot of them so we can be rid of their playground bully management style!
Not a bloody chance....the workforce has shown itself to be a "whipped cur"....It will be a case of different day same sh!t
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Rumour has it Barron wanted to renew his contract... but the board declined as they felt they wanted someone tougher.
I would expect the pace of the pillaging of T's C's to increase rapidly when the new man/woman comes in. And sadly, we threw away our chance to make a show of strength when it mattered. When the TU Execs start squealing about the way the new boys are treating them, I'm afraid I'll have little sympathy. "Working Together" has merely resulted in a quiet and orderly handing-over of strength and influence in a neat little package.
P.S. Financial results out this afternoon
I would expect the pace of the pillaging of T's C's to increase rapidly when the new man/woman comes in. And sadly, we threw away our chance to make a show of strength when it mattered. When the TU Execs start squealing about the way the new boys are treating them, I'm afraid I'll have little sympathy. "Working Together" has merely resulted in a quiet and orderly handing-over of strength and influence in a neat little package.
P.S. Financial results out this afternoon
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Yesterday (Wednesday) had newspaper headlines claiming that companies cannot afford final salary pensions and that they will be frozen for the majority of current members.
How long before NATS comes back to us and states it cannot afford the pension for current members?
Not long methinks (in relative terms)... never mind, our powder is very dry.
How long before NATS comes back to us and states it cannot afford the pension for current members?
Not long methinks (in relative terms)... never mind, our powder is very dry.