UK - NATS Pay negotiations - latest rumours
I say there boy
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"(We would bin the current ridiculous practice of backdating peoples pay if they have failed elsewhere - that is rewarding failure . The fact they still have a job should be reward enough and is very relevant now, when we see people being given P45's when they have failed on the hardest sectors in the room, without being given the option of training elsewhere)."
Anotherthing - the last crop of trainees on the payscale that gave backdated pay joined the company in mid-2004 - so I doubt if there are many left that are not valid or chopped by now. So it's not really current.
Anotherthing - the last crop of trainees on the payscale that gave backdated pay joined the company in mid-2004 - so I doubt if there are many left that are not valid or chopped by now. So it's not really current.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hants
Posts: 2,295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Foghorn,
Are you saying that if someone fails at Heathrow tower (as a for instance) and then gets a move to another tower and validates some 4 or 5 years after joining NATS, they no longer get their pay backdated to the common graduation date, (or whatever its equivalent is called) nowadays?
Is that correct?
If so, good... but not sure it is, there is still a common date that people have to wait until to get on the true ATCO scale if valid before it... conversly, I was of the understanding that if valid after that date, pay was backdated to it...
It's happened just recently at MACC
Are you saying that if someone fails at Heathrow tower (as a for instance) and then gets a move to another tower and validates some 4 or 5 years after joining NATS, they no longer get their pay backdated to the common graduation date, (or whatever its equivalent is called) nowadays?
Is that correct?
If so, good... but not sure it is, there is still a common date that people have to wait until to get on the true ATCO scale if valid before it... conversly, I was of the understanding that if valid after that date, pay was backdated to it...
It's happened just recently at MACC
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: in some mud
Age: 89
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes thats correct. Been the case for a good many years now. I've heard about someone at Manc, think they must surely be the last one floating around on the old contract. These days its crap pay whilst training at college, crap pay whilst training at unit, if valid before the 3rd anniversary of joining then you go on to slightly less crap pay, until the 3rd anni, at which time you join the main pay scale. If valid after then you go straight onto main scale, no back pay. Which is how it should have always been. Your no use till your valid.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: in some mud
Age: 89
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apparently thats not fair, because NSL sky gods are valid so much quicker than the blip people. The 3 year mark seems to ensure most people will be, are are very close to validation at all units. You do then of course get two people doing the same job in a tower with a potential 30K ish difference which is nice...
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hotel CTC
Age: 54
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A bit of back ground info. London LARS is operated by NSL from Farnborough under a contract to NERL for 3 years. As I understand it, they plan is to bring London LARS 'in-house' after the contract expires, but this could be undertaken from the CTC?
NERL is considering the provision of ATSOCAS above FL100 from the CTC covering England and Wales, so the addition of London LARS would would seem a tidy fit. The ATCOs involved with this would also land the London TMA traffic if Swanwick was nuked/suffers act of terrorism/roof collapses (I am not joking)!
And yes the CTC can be configured to provide the services mentioned above.
With the introduction of P-RNAV for both Luton and Stansted in 2010, or is it now 2012? Both units banding can be scaled back to minimum as the function will be mostly monitoring and not vectoring. Only joking about the banding of course and the dumbing down of the job! P-RNAV then comes 2-3 years later for Gatwick, Heathrow and Thames. By then the whole unit will be Band 1 as P-RNAV is NATS saviour! Personally, I am not convinced!
NERL is considering the provision of ATSOCAS above FL100 from the CTC covering England and Wales, so the addition of London LARS would would seem a tidy fit. The ATCOs involved with this would also land the London TMA traffic if Swanwick was nuked/suffers act of terrorism/roof collapses (I am not joking)!
And yes the CTC can be configured to provide the services mentioned above.
With the introduction of P-RNAV for both Luton and Stansted in 2010, or is it now 2012? Both units banding can be scaled back to minimum as the function will be mostly monitoring and not vectoring. Only joking about the banding of course and the dumbing down of the job! P-RNAV then comes 2-3 years later for Gatwick, Heathrow and Thames. By then the whole unit will be Band 1 as P-RNAV is NATS saviour! Personally, I am not convinced!
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Down the front of my briefs
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anotherthing - people who joined before mid 2004 as foghorn mentions get the backdating, people who joined after that don't.
Since mid 2004, all trainees who validate prior to 3 years after joining the company go onto the special cut-price V scale until their third anniversary of joining when they go onto the main scale.
Since mid 2004, all trainees who validate prior to 3 years after joining the company go onto the special cut-price V scale until their third anniversary of joining when they go onto the main scale.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hants
Posts: 2,295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Foghorn, General Kirby and Ballstroker -
thanks for the info... glad common sense prevailed (speaking as someone who spent a year on the V scale, as it was, before getting real ATCO pay only to watch others getting rewarded for failure).
As for PB - is the 9% true? If so I'm really pleased for him what with that and his bonus. It's just a shame the company can't afford to give anyone else a payrise (obviously they can meet bonus payments). Never mind, as long as PB is sorted, that's fine.
Jungle Jingle Jim
Surely your post on the 2nd April was a day late?
Just a few questions to anyone in the know -
Who will provide the LARS from the CTC?
How will they be legally able to
considering the licensing issues - There are a whole load of legal ramifications regarding carrying out the function of a sector you are not qualified on, the use of frequencies etc.
As you say JJJ - I think the PRNAV idea for the whole of the LTMA by 2015 is pie in the sky. Of course, NATS management might be thinking that by then they will have devised a system that means that they can control the weather...
9%... ****
thanks for the info... glad common sense prevailed (speaking as someone who spent a year on the V scale, as it was, before getting real ATCO pay only to watch others getting rewarded for failure).
As for PB - is the 9% true? If so I'm really pleased for him what with that and his bonus. It's just a shame the company can't afford to give anyone else a payrise (obviously they can meet bonus payments). Never mind, as long as PB is sorted, that's fine.
Jungle Jingle Jim
Surely your post on the 2nd April was a day late?
Just a few questions to anyone in the know -
Who will provide the LARS from the CTC?
How will they be legally able to
... land the London TMA traffic if Swanwick was nuked/suffers act of terrorism/roof collapses (I am not joking)!
As you say JJJ - I think the PRNAV idea for the whole of the LTMA by 2015 is pie in the sky. Of course, NATS management might be thinking that by then they will have devised a system that means that they can control the weather...
9%... ****
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Scotland, ATCO
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the 9% is true the unions need to be withdrawing from current talks and submit a new pay claim.
I dont think we should be getting anything less than 9%!!!
Come on union show us you really have got the balls for a fight!
I dont think we should be getting anything less than 9%!!!
Come on union show us you really have got the balls for a fight!
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: way down south
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I expect 9% was some wind up for me ..easy done...but then nothing would come as a surprise..or is that 0%??
The first reply back was probably right ..91% against.
Sorry folks to have got you in lather.
The first reply back was probably right ..91% against.
Sorry folks to have got you in lather.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Home
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
percentage isnt the way to look at it if you want the real answer. look at the trend on actual cash value. Check in the accounts. It goes up by the same amount each time. Same again for 09.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
God, are we in trouble! If Barron is reading this he's laughing all the way to the boardroom. Divide and conquer is complete. Its not just about NSL and NERL pay and banding, wait until they decide we have to work on days 7 and 8 of a 10 day cycle after leave, or have to go to individual rosters. We need to unite and stand against the company NOW not fragment and get into stupid slagging matches about who earns too much. Barron has to be got rid of before he wrecks this company for everybody except the shareholders ( none of whom paid any money for their shares anyway!). Everybody needs to support everybody else because if it aint happening to you now Barrons planning it for your future!
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 1997
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its not just about NSL and NERL pay and banding, wait until they decide we have to work on days 7 and 8 of a 10 day cycle after leave, or have to go to individual rosters.
If you are an ATCO, you should be aware of the ins and outs of SRATCOH since you are a licence holder and could be brought to book as an individual if you break the law, regardless of the fact your employer told you to.