UK - NATS Pay negotiations - latest rumours
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Roffa,
By 'final' I assume you mean the final one out of the meetings that were previously scheduled?
I sincerely hope that the union does not go into this thinking it is the final meeting and then accepting whatever guff management throw at them.
4.8% fully pensionable and backdated to Jan 1st - in time for April pay packets. Get in!!
I'm allowed to dream aren't I?
By 'final' I assume you mean the final one out of the meetings that were previously scheduled?
I sincerely hope that the union does not go into this thinking it is the final meeting and then accepting whatever guff management throw at them.
4.8% fully pensionable and backdated to Jan 1st - in time for April pay packets. Get in!!
I'm allowed to dream aren't I?
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anotherthing
Why aren't you in there?
Tell them whats what..no messing
I think you must be the "link" to replace that weak one I mentioned earlier.
Or have you been there before?
Why aren't you in there?
Tell them whats what..no messing
I think you must be the "link" to replace that weak one I mentioned earlier.
Or have you been there before?
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kats-I
I have toyed with the idea of becoming a rep, but to be honest I think the input reps have is very little - attending some meeting, getting days in lieu and passing on the Union line (even if as some of the Reps admitted during the pensions 'fight', they did not agree personally with the Union line).
It's the head honchos at the Union that have the power, and I prefer controlling to spending all my time doing that.
Won't stop me bitching about lack of communication though or pushing for a better deal. I'm sure some people from the Union and management read these pages so hopefully they will have an idea of peoples feelings.
I have toyed with the idea of becoming a rep, but to be honest I think the input reps have is very little - attending some meeting, getting days in lieu and passing on the Union line (even if as some of the Reps admitted during the pensions 'fight', they did not agree personally with the Union line).
It's the head honchos at the Union that have the power, and I prefer controlling to spending all my time doing that.
Won't stop me bitching about lack of communication though or pushing for a better deal. I'm sure some people from the Union and management read these pages so hopefully they will have an idea of peoples feelings.
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Does anyone know what the total payout to share holders will be this year? the company is in such a bad state, the future so bleak, one would hope it is zero, but I don't think so. With PB getting 9% bet the PCG's will get there bonuses, how many will say no to that, yet we are still waiting for our pay rise.
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I asked PB the question on NATSNET re divi for share holders (Airline Group)..........if they get a good hand out and we get cock all I will not be too impressed...!!! PB responded saying their return so far had been only 1% and they would feel hard done by if that did not improve..!!!......tough sh1t I say, forget about keeping the shareholders happy think of the workforce for a change!!!!!!
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The priorities are all wrong.
They should be taking care of the staff FIRST, then with anything left in the pot they can do with what they wish. Barron says the airlines will be getting in excess of £50million as a dividend with the same crap excuse as above. I dont care they only have been getting 1% or whatever, I think it totals around £9million over the last 6 years or so...... they can get that for a little longer then as NATS has so many in house issues to sort out first.
You cannot tell any workforce you have no money for them, give yourself a 9% payrise, pay your vipers nest of managers tidy bonus sums and give tens of millions as a divedend. Why dont the times come into the ops room and do a proper bloody article and see if PB comes out smelling of roses.
I think then BA can lower their ticket prices by 50% and then if they make any profit the staff can have that. They wouldnt be too impressed.
And Barron wonders why he got ****e feedback in the talkback survey...... what a total muppet!!!
They should be taking care of the staff FIRST, then with anything left in the pot they can do with what they wish. Barron says the airlines will be getting in excess of £50million as a dividend with the same crap excuse as above. I dont care they only have been getting 1% or whatever, I think it totals around £9million over the last 6 years or so...... they can get that for a little longer then as NATS has so many in house issues to sort out first.
You cannot tell any workforce you have no money for them, give yourself a 9% payrise, pay your vipers nest of managers tidy bonus sums and give tens of millions as a divedend. Why dont the times come into the ops room and do a proper bloody article and see if PB comes out smelling of roses.
I think then BA can lower their ticket prices by 50% and then if they make any profit the staff can have that. They wouldnt be too impressed.
And Barron wonders why he got ****e feedback in the talkback survey...... what a total muppet!!!
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Originally Posted by Kats-I
When I say "Troops" I do include Pen-Pushers as well..so no offensive remarks from that quarter please.
(ps that does not constitute an offensive remark
)
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Meanwhile, we still wait to hear officially from the Union exactly what the Special Delegates Conference is about. How long has it been? 6 weeks?
Considering the Union promised us that communications would improve, they're doing a pi$$poor job of it so far.
Working Together is getting beyond a joke. I understand the need to try and have cordial relations with management to an extent, but we've helped them out with the pensions, many of us are doing extra tasks we aren't being paid for which is keeping the business going and what do we get in return? A Union who have made no effort to speak to their members about what they would like to see from a pay deal, a union having cosy confidential meetings with management, thus conveniantly meaning we are being kept in the dark, and a management who are giving the Union such a runaround that it's now April and we are still no closer to having a pay offer.
If the Union were or are negotiating hard, that's fine, but, as usual, they're not communicating anything to the members. Do they ever learn?
At what stage do we as a collective decide that enough is enough and think sod Prospect, let's go for a different Union. One that truly represents its members, one that isn't scared to stand up to management and one that communicates with its members, instead of keeping them in the dark about the issues that really affect them.
I've been a Union rep but I gave it up. I became so disillusioned with the sheer ineptitude of the way it was run and the fact that it's so dominated by the 'big' unit(s) I decided enough was enough. However, I still pay my dues as I believe completely in the Unions as they were originally created. Unfortunately, ours seem to have forgotten who they're representing and this years pay deal is make or break for me with regards to whether or not I continue paying my Union dues. And I know that I'm in the majority, at my unit at least.
Considering the Union promised us that communications would improve, they're doing a pi$$poor job of it so far.
Working Together is getting beyond a joke. I understand the need to try and have cordial relations with management to an extent, but we've helped them out with the pensions, many of us are doing extra tasks we aren't being paid for which is keeping the business going and what do we get in return? A Union who have made no effort to speak to their members about what they would like to see from a pay deal, a union having cosy confidential meetings with management, thus conveniantly meaning we are being kept in the dark, and a management who are giving the Union such a runaround that it's now April and we are still no closer to having a pay offer.
If the Union were or are negotiating hard, that's fine, but, as usual, they're not communicating anything to the members. Do they ever learn?
At what stage do we as a collective decide that enough is enough and think sod Prospect, let's go for a different Union. One that truly represents its members, one that isn't scared to stand up to management and one that communicates with its members, instead of keeping them in the dark about the issues that really affect them.
I've been a Union rep but I gave it up. I became so disillusioned with the sheer ineptitude of the way it was run and the fact that it's so dominated by the 'big' unit(s) I decided enough was enough. However, I still pay my dues as I believe completely in the Unions as they were originally created. Unfortunately, ours seem to have forgotten who they're representing and this years pay deal is make or break for me with regards to whether or not I continue paying my Union dues. And I know that I'm in the majority, at my unit at least.
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Re communication....I e-mailed Garry Graham about 6 weeks ago (may have been longer...it was so long ago I can't remember) regarding pay negotiation issues. I was told by his secretary (who, to be fair, was very prompt) that he was busy but would get back to me straight away, addressing my concerns.
6 weeks later, no response. Says it all really.
On a serious note, how would we theoretically go about getting a new Union to represent us? I'm not advocating this course of action, just interested in the mechanics of it.
Any news on yesterday's (alleged) final pay meeting? Or was it cancelled.....again
6 weeks later, no response. Says it all really.
On a serious note, how would we theoretically go about getting a new Union to represent us? I'm not advocating this course of action, just interested in the mechanics of it.
Any news on yesterday's (alleged) final pay meeting? Or was it cancelled.....again
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Basic Company Management
Roffa linked to this article
Story here.
in another thread – it does have a bearing here though because monetary issues are what is holding up pay talks, with management already stating that it will be difficult to pay pension costs, asking us to take a pay rise that is non pensionable (only 4 months after the pension agreement was finally sorted), and claiming the company needs to tighten its belt in these difficult times.
Airlines want a bigger dividend – tough.
Airlines need to start realising that part of the dividend they get will not be cold hard cash, but through reduced fuel burns etc through the constant tweaking and changing of procedures that we as NATS carry out to make things more efficient. These tweaks etc cost money, for new equipment (AMAN etc), and to push airspace design through.
When times are difficult, such as they are supposed to be just now, they should be given a choice – continued improvements to what is already one of the best services available, or cash.
Not both.
Airlines are constantly given shortcuts, more optimum cruising levels etc when the airspace capacity is available.
It’s about time management realised that provision of an efficient service, and all the costs that this entails to keep it at the forefront of new technology is a dividend in itself – a bloody big one. Unfortunately management seem to have lost sight of what ATC is about and therefore does not realise that the service it provides gives a dividend in itself.
Barron can’t have it both ways.
He’s bleating on about the fact that it will be difficult to sustain the newly reduced pension.
His team have already tried to sell us a miserly pay deal, which to cap it all, would not even be pensionable.
They do this by talking about the "difficult challenges NATS faces financially".
Well, Mr Barron – how on Earth does the frequently repeated statement above lend itself to the other statement of (paraphrased)
“they (the airlines) want a big dividend and we will give it to them because they have only been getting 1% which totals around £9million over the last 6 years or so.”???
You are supposed to be a good businessman – God knows you’ve used enough press coverage (bending the facts when you wanted to – some would call it being dishonest), to blow sunshine up your own backside.
If you’re that good a businessmen you will realise that if times are challenging we tell our shareholders that to ensure the continued integrity of the company, they will be getting no dividend at all this year.
A barely competent businessman would understand that so why should a supposed big shot not grasp the fundamental?
It's not difficult FFS - to quote a famous meerkat - "Simples"
Story here.
in another thread – it does have a bearing here though because monetary issues are what is holding up pay talks, with management already stating that it will be difficult to pay pension costs, asking us to take a pay rise that is non pensionable (only 4 months after the pension agreement was finally sorted), and claiming the company needs to tighten its belt in these difficult times.
Airlines want a bigger dividend – tough.
Airlines need to start realising that part of the dividend they get will not be cold hard cash, but through reduced fuel burns etc through the constant tweaking and changing of procedures that we as NATS carry out to make things more efficient. These tweaks etc cost money, for new equipment (AMAN etc), and to push airspace design through.
When times are difficult, such as they are supposed to be just now, they should be given a choice – continued improvements to what is already one of the best services available, or cash.
Not both.
Airlines are constantly given shortcuts, more optimum cruising levels etc when the airspace capacity is available.
It’s about time management realised that provision of an efficient service, and all the costs that this entails to keep it at the forefront of new technology is a dividend in itself – a bloody big one. Unfortunately management seem to have lost sight of what ATC is about and therefore does not realise that the service it provides gives a dividend in itself.
Barron can’t have it both ways.
He’s bleating on about the fact that it will be difficult to sustain the newly reduced pension.
His team have already tried to sell us a miserly pay deal, which to cap it all, would not even be pensionable.
They do this by talking about the "difficult challenges NATS faces financially".
Well, Mr Barron – how on Earth does the frequently repeated statement above lend itself to the other statement of (paraphrased)
“they (the airlines) want a big dividend and we will give it to them because they have only been getting 1% which totals around £9million over the last 6 years or so.”???
You are supposed to be a good businessman – God knows you’ve used enough press coverage (bending the facts when you wanted to – some would call it being dishonest), to blow sunshine up your own backside.
If you’re that good a businessmen you will realise that if times are challenging we tell our shareholders that to ensure the continued integrity of the company, they will be getting no dividend at all this year.
A barely competent businessman would understand that so why should a supposed big shot not grasp the fundamental?
It's not difficult FFS - to quote a famous meerkat - "Simples"
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Dividend
Just a couple of bits of info, both of which will piss most of us off if we get SFA:
1. RB's promised to pay the airlines the whole of the sale proceeds of the Heathrow Control tower - think that's about £50M - as a dividend.
2. Oh, and his pay rise is more than 9%.
Doesn't it make you proud to work for NATS
1. RB's promised to pay the airlines the whole of the sale proceeds of the Heathrow Control tower - think that's about £50M - as a dividend.
2. Oh, and his pay rise is more than 9%.
Doesn't it make you proud to work for NATS
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If thats true, what a C
T.
I think i would rather be re-nationalised than this. Cheers for all you who voted yes.... you opened the flood gates for this.
Maybe its a good idea Mister PB lives in Yorkshire or where ever he hails from.... imagine bumping into him in Southampton on a day off.... or worse, a watch drinking day!!!!
T.I think i would rather be re-nationalised than this. Cheers for all you who voted yes.... you opened the flood gates for this.
Maybe its a good idea Mister PB lives in Yorkshire or where ever he hails from.... imagine bumping into him in Southampton on a day off.... or worse, a watch drinking day!!!!
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Lincolnshire I think?
Yep.. he can honestly tell everyone the rumoured 9% is untrue...
Info on how the money that could have gone to a decent payrise is instead being given to the very people who saddled the company with massive debts will be around soon... April was when the decision was deferred to.
I said at the start - I will accept a complete freeze on my pay.. Provided no dividends are paid, no senior management accept bonuses and everybody gets the same.
None of those 3 conditions is going to be met - So they can insert their pay freeze in the same cavity as their heads are currently located.
Yep.. he can honestly tell everyone the rumoured 9% is untrue...
Info on how the money that could have gone to a decent payrise is instead being given to the very people who saddled the company with massive debts will be around soon... April was when the decision was deferred to.
I said at the start - I will accept a complete freeze on my pay.. Provided no dividends are paid, no senior management accept bonuses and everybody gets the same.
None of those 3 conditions is going to be met - So they can insert their pay freeze in the same cavity as their heads are currently located.
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Not that ATCOs' are poor, nor many other staff (as its about all of us, not only ATCOs'). But it seems a case of the rich getting richer and the poor being shafted. Barron should become an MP....
He needs to get his arse into an ops room and come face the music..... LIVID!!!
Working together is utter bollocks.
NATS management is utter bollocks.
Pay talks are utter bollocks.
The union need to get something out next week to the tune of:
' We are a very profitable company, we have made so much money Scrooge Mcduck would be jealous. Therefore, our leader will get a massive payrise, full set of bonuses and shave his head to reveal a neat little 666 cluster on the upper left cranium. Full bonuses have been paid to management who ride the backs of the staff who actually work their nuts and tits off and we have gotten you a 5.8% payrise. NSL is safe and an all inclusive party will be thrown at the savoy for ops staff to make up for having to just look at the ones in Pulse. To ice the cake, we are reverting back to the old pension for all'
He needs to get his arse into an ops room and come face the music..... LIVID!!!
Working together is utter bollocks.
NATS management is utter bollocks.
Pay talks are utter bollocks.
The union need to get something out next week to the tune of:
' We are a very profitable company, we have made so much money Scrooge Mcduck would be jealous. Therefore, our leader will get a massive payrise, full set of bonuses and shave his head to reveal a neat little 666 cluster on the upper left cranium. Full bonuses have been paid to management who ride the backs of the staff who actually work their nuts and tits off and we have gotten you a 5.8% payrise. NSL is safe and an all inclusive party will be thrown at the savoy for ops staff to make up for having to just look at the ones in Pulse. To ice the cake, we are reverting back to the old pension for all'