UK - NATS Pay negotiations - latest rumours
Join Date: Jul 2003
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The term Rep is a shortened version of the word "Representative". The Chambers Twentieth Century Dictionary describes a representative thus: One who represents another or others as a deputy, delegate, etc.
If you dont like what is going on by YOUR REPRESENTATIVES either directly (Negotiations) or indirectly (Working Together) DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
Challenge your reps/union officials, Agitate, Attend the monthly BECs, Submit motions to Conference, Submit motions of no confidence if necessary, etc, etc.
Hopefully we have not reached the nadir of New Liarbour/Tories where the MPs after election toe the party line to advance their careers and feather their own financial nests and renounce their duty to the citizens who voted for them OR HAVE WE????
If you dont like what is going on by YOUR REPRESENTATIVES either directly (Negotiations) or indirectly (Working Together) DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
Challenge your reps/union officials, Agitate, Attend the monthly BECs, Submit motions to Conference, Submit motions of no confidence if necessary, etc, etc.
Hopefully we have not reached the nadir of New Liarbour/Tories where the MPs after election toe the party line to advance their careers and feather their own financial nests and renounce their duty to the citizens who voted for them OR HAVE WE????
Join Date: Nov 2007
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don't worry
Just for your info, us poor old pensioners, will have an increase in our pensions of precisely nothing, nada, zilch, zero, not a sausage or to put it another way 0%.
The rpi was stated at 211.4 to February, hence the big fat zeroid. Which to be honest is nice round number.
So how much do you really think you'll get?
The rpi was stated at 211.4 to February, hence the big fat zeroid. Which to be honest is nice round number.
So how much do you really think you'll get?
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well hostman, perhaps you are unlucky to get 0% extra on your pension this year, but, at least you probably have the pension you signed up for - the majority of us within nats just now will not.
Back on thread - i see that several sources are forecasting inflation to be up at 5%+ by autumn, RPI may not get as low as predicted. (which means, more income for nats of course....!)
Back on thread - i see that several sources are forecasting inflation to be up at 5%+ by autumn, RPI may not get as low as predicted. (which means, more income for nats of course....!)
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Hostman. Whay are you on a NATS pay forum moaning about Pensions. Write to your MP. Anybody know what the lastest offer is from MGT. I think that we should be careful going for a two year deal unless it is linked to RPI.
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"I think we will get what we ask for or we will ballot for strike action. "
If only that were true. Problem is, the staff/Unions have shown their hand to Mgmt by failing to stand up for themselves over the pensions issue. You ain't going to get anything you want, demand, request or insist on from this point forward. You will get what Mgmt chooses to give you - or not.
If only that were true. Problem is, the staff/Unions have shown their hand to Mgmt by failing to stand up for themselves over the pensions issue. You ain't going to get anything you want, demand, request or insist on from this point forward. You will get what Mgmt chooses to give you - or not.
Last edited by White Hart; 28th Mar 2009 at 17:36.
Join Date: Jan 2009
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I work within CTC. I had a heated debate with a Barron Lackie manager saying that I was greedy for voting NO over the pension issue. She told me everything would be okay (probably as she had naively believed the Barron banter).
I want a pay rise to meet the cost of inflation, nothing more.
Reservations are now no longer required to park at the CTC. Some folk who believed Barron are now looking for work, thus the number of available parking slots available!
Anyone now claim to have voted YES?
Barron does what he wants and more fool any ATCO on a PCG contract currently as they are a diminishing breed!
If we want a pay rise, we must all FIGHT for it!
I want a pay rise to meet the cost of inflation, nothing more.
Reservations are now no longer required to park at the CTC. Some folk who believed Barron are now looking for work, thus the number of available parking slots available!
Anyone now claim to have voted YES?
Barron does what he wants and more fool any ATCO on a PCG contract currently as they are a diminishing breed!
If we want a pay rise, we must all FIGHT for it!
Join Date: Oct 2004
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J J Jim,
I also work at CTC, and I voted YES and stand by it as it was the right thing to do IMHO. I am in no way ashamed, even if this forum is full of nay sayers blaming everything on the pension vote (that being the democratic vote that went through by a significant majority of those who bothered / were given a chance to vote, remember?).
The current pay situation has absolutely **** all to do with the pension vote, hence in this instance I will be there alongside you FIGHTING FOR MY PAY RISE along with everyone else.
RS
p.s. Vote No, fire at will if you must
I also work at CTC, and I voted YES and stand by it as it was the right thing to do IMHO. I am in no way ashamed, even if this forum is full of nay sayers blaming everything on the pension vote (that being the democratic vote that went through by a significant majority of those who bothered / were given a chance to vote, remember?).
The current pay situation has absolutely **** all to do with the pension vote, hence in this instance I will be there alongside you FIGHTING FOR MY PAY RISE along with everyone else.
RS
p.s. Vote No, fire at will if you must
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Isn't it kinda ironic that these top level managers have done such a great job in saving a few £££'s here, and a few £££'s there, and penny pinching as much as they can, that now there is literally no more money to be saved, except for their own salaries.
I agree, we have to stand and fight for a decent pay rise this time...and it HAS to be pensionable.
I agree, we have to stand and fight for a decent pay rise this time...and it HAS to be pensionable.
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"..The current pay situation has absolutely **** all to do with the pension vote,.."
maybe not, but the same thought process that turned Union 'dry powder' into 'damp paste' will prevail for a second time with the pay vote. In the current climate, you can forget all about the bravado, fighting talk and standing together. The reality is that, irrespective of any offer, the majority of members will be individually voting to try to retain their most important asset - their job. This will apply particularly within NSL, (which is rapidly floating off down Sh*t Creek) and more especially right across the non-ATCO NATS workforce. What they will not do is go down the road of taking industrial action to 'stand and fight' as is so often bantered both here and in the workplace. Talking about strike action is one thing - actually going on strike is quite another.
As we have seen with the pension issue, when push really came to shove, the majority didn't have the balls to go through with it. It will be the same this time around, too.
maybe not, but the same thought process that turned Union 'dry powder' into 'damp paste' will prevail for a second time with the pay vote. In the current climate, you can forget all about the bravado, fighting talk and standing together. The reality is that, irrespective of any offer, the majority of members will be individually voting to try to retain their most important asset - their job. This will apply particularly within NSL, (which is rapidly floating off down Sh*t Creek) and more especially right across the non-ATCO NATS workforce. What they will not do is go down the road of taking industrial action to 'stand and fight' as is so often bantered both here and in the workplace. Talking about strike action is one thing - actually going on strike is quite another.
As we have seen with the pension issue, when push really came to shove, the majority didn't have the balls to go through with it. It will be the same this time around, too.
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Some of us do, however in a democratic society it's the majority who rule. Maybe its time to break away from the non operational ATC types in the office who understandably are concerned about their jobs, and form another union so we are not dragged down with them. That way they can keep their jobs and their pay cut, and others will get the pay rise . The united we stand, divided we fall rule is no longer working for us, at the moment we are all falling
The public dont give a toss as long as they can still fly. They dont care about projects and airspace planning. As long as the core workers keep them in the air they dont want to know.
. The united we stand, divided we fall rule is no longer working for us, at the moment we are all fallingThe public dont give a toss as long as they can still fly. They dont care about projects and airspace planning. As long as the core workers keep them in the air they dont want to know.
Last edited by Vote NO; 29th Mar 2009 at 14:12.
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Radarspod
Totally correct, however I think what some people may argue is that a lot of people voted 'yes' because they believed the management line.
Some of the things that were thrown around when the pension debate was current were
"vote the pension changes in and management will look favourably on the pay award" (mentioned by Union reps).
"Vote yes to save jobs" (mentioned by a lot of yes voters) - sorry, but if the job is surplus to requirements, then bin it - may sound harsh but thats business. As it turns out, in the way that NATS management always work, our knee-jerk redundancies have acutally included people who NATS still needs but of course doing a proper study would be too difficult.
The pension vote does have one very big implication on the pay issue - that of Union strength, or lack off. 30% of people couldn't even be bothered to vote in the pension ballot - whatever they wanted to vote, or even if they just spoiled their paper if they were unsure, this lack of turnout has shown management they can ride rough shod over us.
They have already started by trying to make the last pay offer non-pensionable - totally against what the 'Yes' vote agreed to.
So although looking at it very simplistically, you are correct in your statement above, the fact is the way the pension ballot and negotiation was handled has sent a very clear message to management - as White Hart states, our dry powder is useless - we should sell it off to the French to raise some cash!
The current pay situation has absolutely **** all to do with the pension vote, hence in this instance I will be there alongside you FIGHTING FOR MY PAY RISE along with everyone else.
Some of the things that were thrown around when the pension debate was current were
"vote the pension changes in and management will look favourably on the pay award" (mentioned by Union reps).
"Vote yes to save jobs" (mentioned by a lot of yes voters) - sorry, but if the job is surplus to requirements, then bin it - may sound harsh but thats business. As it turns out, in the way that NATS management always work, our knee-jerk redundancies have acutally included people who NATS still needs
but of course doing a proper study would be too difficult.The pension vote does have one very big implication on the pay issue - that of Union strength, or lack off. 30% of people couldn't even be bothered to vote in the pension ballot - whatever they wanted to vote, or even if they just spoiled their paper if they were unsure, this lack of turnout has shown management they can ride rough shod over us.
They have already started by trying to make the last pay offer non-pensionable - totally against what the 'Yes' vote agreed to.
So although looking at it very simplistically, you are correct in your statement above, the fact is the way the pension ballot and negotiation was handled has sent a very clear message to management - as White Hart states, our dry powder is useless - we should sell it off to the French to raise some cash!
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Maybe its time to break away from the non operational ATC types in the office who understandably are concerned about their jobs, and form another union so we are not dragged down with them.
If we start dividing up the existing NTUS union powerbase, the management have won before they even started.
Last edited by Radarspod; 29th Mar 2009 at 16:38. Reason: crass spelling! (thanks notlgw53)