UK - NATS Pay negotiations - latest rumours
If we were to accept less than (August) RPI it does not just show in next years pay slips, but also has a knock on for every year of our pensions. The RPI + .5% pension CAP would make any shortfall in this pay round difficult to recoup when negotiations have us in a position of more power in the future.
We should not even contemplate the pay cut that less than RPI would be.
We should not even contemplate the pay cut that less than RPI would be.
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Area atco moving sideways?
Just to chip in late to put things correct.
Hootin an a roarin.
I know the area atco quite well as I have worked with him for many a year now and shared the watch he was on for a while.
Although Im sure he always felt otherwise he has always said to us that he didnt complain about the assessment that he undertook-though Im sure we were (and if he were honest about it would be himself) gobsmacked at the result.
For the rest he wasnt just an area atco-he was valid and instructing both in twr and approach on the system that manch works now (2 runways etc) whilst still holding area validations and was promised at the time he would never need to give up his twr/app validations. He was very unhappy when they were taken off him because he couldnt be rostered enough to stay current in all 3.
He has never complained about it to my knowledge but I have heard that manch management intervened when he was offered a college instructors job (after passing assessment)by telling them he no longer wanted it (without telling him!!-he only found out when he mailed the college about starting dates) as he was moving back to twr. Naughty! I believe he still has the emails for proof.
This chap isnt just jumping ship-he's an atco,ojti,assessor,verifier,lce,examiner,wto and board examiner, so I reckon the area side are holding onto him as long as they can and it should be remembered that this chap had trained a good proportion of the twr/app guys who are valid at manch now.
Sorry if it seems like a rant but I believe this chap shouldnt just be looked at as stopping someone else getting an nsl job at mnch-i certainly would not be valid without him and theres probably a lot more here would agree with that.
Respect where it's due from me!
Hootin an a roarin.
I know the area atco quite well as I have worked with him for many a year now and shared the watch he was on for a while.
Although Im sure he always felt otherwise he has always said to us that he didnt complain about the assessment that he undertook-though Im sure we were (and if he were honest about it would be himself) gobsmacked at the result.
For the rest he wasnt just an area atco-he was valid and instructing both in twr and approach on the system that manch works now (2 runways etc) whilst still holding area validations and was promised at the time he would never need to give up his twr/app validations. He was very unhappy when they were taken off him because he couldnt be rostered enough to stay current in all 3.
He has never complained about it to my knowledge but I have heard that manch management intervened when he was offered a college instructors job (after passing assessment)by telling them he no longer wanted it (without telling him!!-he only found out when he mailed the college about starting dates) as he was moving back to twr. Naughty! I believe he still has the emails for proof.
This chap isnt just jumping ship-he's an atco,ojti,assessor,verifier,lce,examiner,wto and board examiner, so I reckon the area side are holding onto him as long as they can and it should be remembered that this chap had trained a good proportion of the twr/app guys who are valid at manch now.
Sorry if it seems like a rant but I believe this chap shouldnt just be looked at as stopping someone else getting an nsl job at mnch-i certainly would not be valid without him and theres probably a lot more here would agree with that.
Respect where it's due from me!
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Mahaba
No problems.
The alledged dodgy dealings went on with a Manc based female who was not as qualified as some external candidates who did not even get through the paper sift. At the time non Manc people did not realise that she was the other half of one of the successful candidates and so she was also successful. Don't know if that is the bloke you are refering to or not, or what happened in the long run but at the time it stank and left a lot of people not in the Manc clique p*ssed off.
No problems.
The alledged dodgy dealings went on with a Manc based female who was not as qualified as some external candidates who did not even get through the paper sift. At the time non Manc people did not realise that she was the other half of one of the successful candidates and so she was also successful. Don't know if that is the bloke you are refering to or not, or what happened in the long run but at the time it stank and left a lot of people not in the Manc clique p*ssed off.
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Pay 2009
Latest news from the pay negotiations....
The NTUS met with NATS on 16th March at which management made a pay offer which they described as “modest”.
The offer was derisory and had so many strings attached that it was rejected out of hand by the NTUS.
The next meeting is scheduled for the 23rd March.
The NTUS met with NATS on 16th March at which management made a pay offer which they described as “modest”.
The offer was derisory and had so many strings attached that it was rejected out of hand by the NTUS.
The next meeting is scheduled for the 23rd March.
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August RPI was what... ~ 5%. It's now 0.1%
While the agreement beforehand would theoretically entitle us to expect at least the ~5% from August, I think management would have a decent argument to say it's reasonable in these extreme times of financial instability to accept something based on an averaged out RPI over the span of those months.
Yes, if RPI had stayed at 5% till now and you were offered 2% then that is indeed a pay cut in real terms... but that's not the case. Our cost of living hasn't increased consistently at 5% since last pay increase. We can't stamp our feet at management cherry-picking figures and dates that suit them, and then do the exact same ourselves.
Personally, my first priority is to still have a job... I like eating and wish to continue doing so with regularity. However, I wont be scared into submission by that...
If they offered me 2%, backdated to January, I'd take that. It'll be a while before RPI gets back up to that level.
I would accept a pay freeze... provided a couple of things were done first:
1. No dividends
2. PCG group waive, or at least defer all contractual bonuses. That includes Barron.
Not going to happen!
While the agreement beforehand would theoretically entitle us to expect at least the ~5% from August, I think management would have a decent argument to say it's reasonable in these extreme times of financial instability to accept something based on an averaged out RPI over the span of those months.
Yes, if RPI had stayed at 5% till now and you were offered 2% then that is indeed a pay cut in real terms... but that's not the case. Our cost of living hasn't increased consistently at 5% since last pay increase. We can't stamp our feet at management cherry-picking figures and dates that suit them, and then do the exact same ourselves.
Personally, my first priority is to still have a job... I like eating and wish to continue doing so with regularity. However, I wont be scared into submission by that...
If they offered me 2%, backdated to January, I'd take that. It'll be a while before RPI gets back up to that level.
I would accept a pay freeze... provided a couple of things were done first:
1. No dividends
2. PCG group waive, or at least defer all contractual bonuses. That includes Barron.
Not going to happen!
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Food up at least 5% since last year. Council tax up by 5%. My car insurance up by nearly 10% this year despite no claims....
Anything less than last August's RPI will be a pay cut in real terms... as well as the aforementioned effect on my pension on the long term.
Anything less than last August's RPI will be a pay cut in real terms... as well as the aforementioned effect on my pension on the long term.
Me Me Me - I think you misunderstand. The £100 basket of food (fuel, mortgage, electronics etc) I could afford in August 2007 year already costs £105 last in August 2008 according to the government figures. I should think it costs £108 by now. I can't buy as much food now. With the fall in the value of the pound I don't suppose my value Dutch tomatoes will cost any less either, but nats think that its okay that I should have the spending power of 2007 and that my long awaited pension should be that much less for the rest of my life. This is not acceptable to me.
When nats want to negotiate next years pay rise and RPI has been 0.01%, then I would consider a pay freeze, not before.
Incidentally I am not alone in believing that we are heading for large inflation to pay for the excesses of the last decade and the various £bn payouts. August RPI type payouts may help protect us in such times, but any time we accept less than RPI we also screw our pensions further.
When nats want to negotiate next years pay rise and RPI has been 0.01%, then I would consider a pay freeze, not before.
Incidentally I am not alone in believing that we are heading for large inflation to pay for the excesses of the last decade and the various £bn payouts. August RPI type payouts may help protect us in such times, but any time we accept less than RPI we also screw our pensions further.
Disappointed
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I'll only accept any form of pay freeze if the top management team and the PCG grades are given no whopping bonuses this time around - and give up some of their rather cushy perks.
Or, in other words, I won't be accepting a pay freeze. I expect the rise in the cost of living to be accounted for in my pay packet - at the very least.
I don't believe that's greed. Just sense.
Or, in other words, I won't be accepting a pay freeze. I expect the rise in the cost of living to be accounted for in my pay packet - at the very least.
I don't believe that's greed. Just sense.
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PAY 2009
17th March, 2009
The NTUS met with NATS on 16th March at which management made a pay offer which they described as "modest".
The offer was derisory and had so many strings attached that it was rejected out of hand by the NTUS.
The next meeting is scheduled for the 23rd March.
Ian McNeill
NTUS Co-ordinator
17th March, 2009
The NTUS met with NATS on 16th March at which management made a pay offer which they described as "modest".
The offer was derisory and had so many strings attached that it was rejected out of hand by the NTUS.
The next meeting is scheduled for the 23rd March.
Ian McNeill
NTUS Co-ordinator
with certain terms+ conditions 
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NATS Job Cuts
All this talk of pay rises is very nice, but the rumour mill seems to be alive with prospects for redundancies. NATS is getting more like a real company every day!
400 jobs to go through Voluntary redundancies apparently, which if not achieved will lead to a compulsory boot for some... Obviously the higher paid are more vulnerable, it takes fewer £90k types to make a target cost saving than it would for £35k types...
Whats' the scoop on the bush telegraph? Where will the cuts bite? I am right or is it all hogwash?
Katie
400 jobs to go through Voluntary redundancies apparently, which if not achieved will lead to a compulsory boot for some... Obviously the higher paid are more vulnerable, it takes fewer £90k types to make a target cost saving than it would for £35k types...
Whats' the scoop on the bush telegraph? Where will the cuts bite? I am right or is it all hogwash?
Katie
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Very difficult to make controllers redundant as UK legislation says you then can't restaff that role for a number of years, so presumably as soon as you want to make controllers redundant you have to stop recruiting.
But then again, we've apparently loads of staff and then there's the recession so volume of flights will be down for at least 20 years, so a definite cost saving could be made there...........
But then again, we've apparently loads of staff and then there's the recession so volume of flights will be down for at least 20 years, so a definite cost saving could be made there...........
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As well as a cull on CTC project staff it would appear to be "slash and burn time" for the lad and lassies in System Control at Swanwick. They tell me that several senior staff are going under VR whilst others will have to find jobs at CTC and elsewhere - if there any left. I am very concerned about the level of support that will be left in the Ops rooms at the completion of this exercise. Not just the numbers of engineers to support us but they used to be quite a good laugh to work with and now all seem totally p*ss*d-off with everything and anyone who dares to walk in there.
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I heard there was a cull at CTC on staff involved with projects
A lot of contractors have either had their contracts terminated or will not be renewed, as well as the engineering voluntary redundancies which were well oversubscribed (unsurprisingly!). This was needed to get the headcount down as lots of project work has been pushed back in time and there isn't the demand any more for the resourcing.
Unfortunately, voluntary redundancies means the loss of some good people......the deadwood unfortunately still remain. Some might suggest that targeted compulsories aren't always a bad thing.......
RS
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400 from CTC is untenable!
Why 400, how is this calculated, is this just a numbers game...?
Rumours are some ex Spectrum, ATSA 4's, Band 5's on non op's jobs close to retirement, but certainly not 400...YET! Add the contractors not kept on.
Car Parking spaces currently at the CTC are no longer at a premium, so I guess senior managers will soon be banging via the Intranet about how green NATS has become!
Why 400, how is this calculated, is this just a numbers game...?
Rumours are some ex Spectrum, ATSA 4's, Band 5's on non op's jobs close to retirement, but certainly not 400...YET! Add the contractors not kept on.
Car Parking spaces currently at the CTC are no longer at a premium, so I guess senior managers will soon be banging via the Intranet about how green NATS has become!