UK - NATS Pay negotiations - latest rumours
Join Date: Oct 2004
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I did say that Voting No could cost jobs and I stand by that. At it's most extreme failing to address the pension costs could cause the company to go bust and as I've said before I think a lot of non ATCO jobs wouldn't survive that. Even without going bust an increase in pension costs would only add to the apparent shortfall in the CP2 budget and if the current shortfall could only be addressed by job losses it seems reasonable to conclude that a bigger shortfall would need more job losses.
I didn't say there would be no job losses if we voted yes but I do believe that voting yes has meant less job losses than if we had voted no.
I didn't say there would be no job losses if we voted yes but I do believe that voting yes has meant less job losses than if we had voted no.
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NATS would never "Go Bust"
This cobblers is part of The Red Barron's 'Platform Of Fear' horsesh!t.
Mr Bean would have to bail NATS out.
Corrupt 'bankers' are !0-a penny. Air Traffic Control Officers are a rarer, more select, breed.
I am certain of this.- As certain as a future Ryanair passenger is of p*ssing ther pants!
This cobblers is part of The Red Barron's 'Platform Of Fear' horsesh!t.
Mr Bean would have to bail NATS out.
Corrupt 'bankers' are !0-a penny. Air Traffic Control Officers are a rarer, more select, breed.
I am certain of this.- As certain as a future Ryanair passenger is of p*ssing ther pants!
Beady Eye
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I'm not a union member for a variety of reasons but negotiation (or working together) between union representatives and management is the only way the workforce's views etc. are presented and responded to (or not as the case may be). Because I do not wish to join a union it effectively closes the door to my being heard and I don't feel thats right. That leaves open the option of trying to influence (not tell) other people who are union members. I very much doubt I managed that on here as this site is mainly populated by the very vociferous, vocal minority of nay sayers and negative minded people. Hence my 'absence' of late, I'm bored with reading moans and whinges in here when I'm working in the real world with a lot of very positive people who have a "can do" not a "can't do" attitude.
BD
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Radarspod
And writing it 
But seriously, NATS can well afford to keep its full time staff, why did they employ them in the first place? If their business plan was wrong,it's their managers who need to go, and some are going soon with a shed load of money! How many millions do you think NATS have wasted over the last few years? Perhaps some "expert" on here can tell us?
Nope, we're still here, reading the usual drivel 
You think these job losses would have been prevented if it'd been a No vote? It'll be the same or worse.
RS
You think these job losses would have been prevented if it'd been a No vote? It'll be the same or worse.
RS
But seriously, NATS can well afford to keep its full time staff, why did they employ them in the first place? If their business plan was wrong,it's their managers who need to go, and some are going soon with a shed load of money! How many millions do you think NATS have wasted over the last few years? Perhaps some "expert" on here can tell us?
Join Date: Feb 2006
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BD
The majority of the negative comments on here are posted by operational staff who have to put up with things that those with can do attitudes have brought in...
AMAN, N601, TC SE LOW changes etc.
Sometimes letting off steam is the best way for these operational staff who have to get on and do their jobs with badly implemented tools, or poorly thought out airspace redesigns. Unfortunately comments books etc are not heeded.
So people will let of steam here, and tell it like they see it - it's often a good way of getting frank and open discussions between different sets of staff.
I'd even go as far as to state that some of the threads on PPRuNe (more the ones of a technical nature, not the pay or pension ones), have probably resulted in some benefit.
I very much doubt I managed that on here as this site is mainly populated by the very vociferous, vocal minority of nay sayers and negative minded people. Hence my 'absence' of late, I'm bored with reading moans and whinges in here when I'm working in the real world with a lot of very positive people who have a "can do" not a "can't do" attitude.
AMAN, N601, TC SE LOW changes etc.
Sometimes letting off steam is the best way for these operational staff who have to get on and do their jobs with badly implemented tools, or poorly thought out airspace redesigns. Unfortunately comments books etc are not heeded.
So people will let of steam here, and tell it like they see it - it's often a good way of getting frank and open discussions between different sets of staff.
I'd even go as far as to state that some of the threads on PPRuNe (more the ones of a technical nature, not the pay or pension ones), have probably resulted in some benefit.
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I'm working in the real world with a lot of very positive people who have a "can do" not a "can't do" attitude
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MACC staff should have received their voluntary redundancy acceptance letters this morning. 30 posts or thereabouts.
Beady Eye
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BD
Spink Pots
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The majority of "things" that go well must go so well that we don't even realise they exist on the shop floor. My experience has been somewhat different with the majority of new technology implemented since we (TC) graced the southern shores with our presence having been implemented in a rather half arsed manner. CAIT is the only thing that springs to mind as being introuced in a reasonably efficient manner.
Beady Eye
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The majority of "things" that go well must go so well that we don't even realise they exist on the shop floor. My experience has been somewhat different with the majority of new technology implemented since we (TC) graced the southern shores with our presence having been implemented in a rather half arsed manner.
No one likes change but some people seem to handle it better than others
BD
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Quote:
MACC staff should have received their voluntary redundancy acceptance letters this morning. 30 posts or thereabouts.
Is that across the board or just a specific group ?
MACC staff should have received their voluntary redundancy acceptance letters this morning. 30 posts or thereabouts.
Is that across the board or just a specific group ?
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BD
the three things I mentioned just happened to be the latest 3 things to hit the Ops room, it was by no means an exhaustive list.
The two new airspace changes have not even happened yet, but they do not enhance the operation (N601 from a TC perspective - it has merits from an AC one). In fact N601 actually makes the TC Mids controllers job more difficult!
As for the move from WD - lets see:
VCCS, only just recently became stable after 14 months - but we still cannot cross couple more than 2 frequencies. As the very fiorst person on the day of opening to get hit by a VCCS failure, it's a pretty sore subject with me.
Radar screens - BARCO displays regularly flickering (not nice to witness when controlling) - according to engineers they are not allowed to purchase the expensive digital graphics cards that would solve the problem because of cost, therefore instead they are going to try other inferior cards.
Headsets - poorly designed, expensive flimsy rubbish.
Even down to the nitty gritty of domestic issues...
Carpet tiles that don't stay stuck down - may sound silly but a health hazard and looks a mess.
Still no colour screens for stack displays.
Seats that are uncomfotable, but again was the most expensive choice - despite feedback prior to the move that they were not ideal.
The WD move was a sucess in that we moved and we stayed, but it's far from perfect.
Do I prefer the working environment I now find myself in - of course - by miles, but I don't walk round with rose tinted glasses. If something is good, I acknowledge the fact, if something could be better, I make a noise about it.
NATS is first and foremost about air traffic CONTROL. Safety is paramount. Since when was good enough, good enough??
the three things I mentioned just happened to be the latest 3 things to hit the Ops room, it was by no means an exhaustive list.
The two new airspace changes have not even happened yet, but they do not enhance the operation (N601 from a TC perspective - it has merits from an AC one). In fact N601 actually makes the TC Mids controllers job more difficult!
As for the move from WD - lets see:
VCCS, only just recently became stable after 14 months - but we still cannot cross couple more than 2 frequencies. As the very fiorst person on the day of opening to get hit by a VCCS failure, it's a pretty sore subject with me.
Radar screens - BARCO displays regularly flickering (not nice to witness when controlling) - according to engineers they are not allowed to purchase the expensive digital graphics cards that would solve the problem because of cost, therefore instead they are going to try other inferior cards.
Headsets - poorly designed, expensive flimsy rubbish.
Even down to the nitty gritty of domestic issues...
Carpet tiles that don't stay stuck down - may sound silly but a health hazard and looks a mess.
Still no colour screens for stack displays.
Seats that are uncomfotable, but again was the most expensive choice - despite feedback prior to the move that they were not ideal.
The WD move was a sucess in that we moved and we stayed, but it's far from perfect.
Do I prefer the working environment I now find myself in - of course - by miles, but I don't walk round with rose tinted glasses. If something is good, I acknowledge the fact, if something could be better, I make a noise about it.
NATS is first and foremost about air traffic CONTROL. Safety is paramount. Since when was good enough, good enough??
Spink Pots
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The move in itself was seamless and very well handled and I congratulate those involved. It's a pity about the VCCS though. It was atrocious and still is although to a slightly lesser degree now. I also believe it is dangerous but that's another thread for another day. There's also the carpet, AMAN, SAM arrivals airspace and many others which fall under the umbrella of the farcical.
EFD is an up and coming event which I feel will top all of the others by a country mile as far as cock ups go. I really do sympathise with the engineers involved with it.
I agree that some people do blow these things out of proportion but turning a blind eye and declaring failed or flawed projects a success gives them plenty of fuel for their fire.
I'm sure I could tat for your tit and vice versa until the cows come home but this is a thread about pay negotiations and we're straying off track.
EFD is an up and coming event which I feel will top all of the others by a country mile as far as cock ups go. I really do sympathise with the engineers involved with it.
I agree that some people do blow these things out of proportion but turning a blind eye and declaring failed or flawed projects a success gives them plenty of fuel for their fire.
I'm sure I could tat for your tit and vice versa until the cows come home but this is a thread about pay negotiations and we're straying off track.
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I think AC will hold the title for biggest cock-ups when iFACTS eventually raises it's head.
Anyway back to the thread, any news on what happened at the pay meeting on Friday? I hope we let them know exasperated we are!
Anyway back to the thread, any news on what happened at the pay meeting on Friday? I hope we let them know exasperated we are!
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Two contrasting quotes here:-
"No one likes change, but some people seem to handle it better than others"
- BDiONU.
This is not entirely correct. I would not like to go back to the car I had before the one I now drive. Nor would I want to live in the previous house or use my discarded computer etc. Change should always be for the better, otherwise it is pointless. Some people handle it better because they are prepared to lower their standards and compromise on quality/safety or whatever.
If it isn't broken, don't mend it.
"Since change is inevitable, we should direct the change rather than simply continue to go through the change"
- GSH.
From reading these pages, many of the changes occurring in ATC are not changes for the better, and are certainly not 'directed' by those they affect the most.
"No one likes change, but some people seem to handle it better than others
" - BDiONU.
This is not entirely correct. I would not like to go back to the car I had before the one I now drive. Nor would I want to live in the previous house or use my discarded computer etc. Change should always be for the better, otherwise it is pointless. Some people handle it better because they are prepared to lower their standards and compromise on quality/safety or whatever.
If it isn't broken, don't mend it.
"Since change is inevitable, we should direct the change rather than simply continue to go through the change"
- GSH.
From reading these pages, many of the changes occurring in ATC are not changes for the better, and are certainly not 'directed' by those they affect the most.
Even without going bust an increase in pension costs would only add to the apparent shortfall in the CP2 budget and if the current shortfall could only be addressed by job losses it seems reasonable to conclude that a bigger shortfall would need more job losses.
Shortfall? We've been making 50 million profits for each of the last 5 years. I can't wait until this year's financial results are published.
And how much did NATS get from the sale of heathrow tower?