Another nail in the MACC morale coffin.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NAV Canada
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Zooker...Ever kissed a girl son???? Dont fret about where i work lad, ill keep counting the cash 
Oh, think Ive heard you over the airwaves too.... "dya want fries with that!!!"
Oh, think Ive heard you over the airwaves too.... "dya want fries with that!!!"
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
Posts: 2,001
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Knots, Good Evening.
Spotters do not underline things anymore.. Try and keep up, we're living in the digital age now.
I believe some spotters even take their own 'radars' with them
Of course I know where the LTMA is controlled from. I think it's in a room fairly close to you is it not? Go and have a look! See the plan! Combine the most complex unit (No.1) with the 14th, (Way down there), divide by 2 and, oh sh*t we're still 2.5 comlpexity points below Manchester
Fidgell, Lots of exciting spotting at EGPK The 747 Dreamlifter and AN225 are regular visitors! As for the fries, I think everthing is fried up there: Pizzas, Mars Bars, you name it 
-And as for the cash you'll be counting, that'll be your Band 4 salary then.
:
Now, enough of this silly thread-drift. Why is the morale low at MACC?
Spotters do not underline things anymore.. Try and keep up, we're living in the digital age now.
I believe some spotters even take their own 'radars' with them
Of course I know where the LTMA is controlled from. I think it's in a room fairly close to you is it not? Go and have a look! See the plan! Combine the most complex unit (No.1) with the 14th, (Way down there), divide by 2 and, oh sh*t we're still 2.5 comlpexity points below Manchester
Fidgell, Lots of exciting spotting at EGPK
The 747 Dreamlifter and AN225 are regular visitors! As for the fries, I think everthing is fried up there: Pizzas, Mars Bars, you name it -And as for the cash you'll be counting, that'll be your Band 4 salary then.
:Now, enough of this silly thread-drift. Why is the morale low at MACC?
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NAV Canada
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have no worries about heading north - been there before!!!
My morale is as high as the bank account bud, and I get paid to do your hobby! Surely there are sites for anoraks lad, run along and let the workers chat... you know nothing about our day, reality is a different animal.
I think ive been had here, there is no way this guy is for real is there?
My morale is as high as the bank account bud, and I get paid to do your hobby! Surely there are sites for anoraks lad, run along and let the workers chat... you know nothing about our day, reality is a different animal.
I think ive been had here, there is no way this guy is for real is there?
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The South
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ZOOKER
Why not leave us REAL ATCOs to talk on our ATCO forum about REAL issues. I am sure if you search the net then there is a forum for pretenders to chat. Why not hang around "Spotter's Corner?"
I do find your posts a laugh tho & have brought a smile to my face, ya joker!
Why not leave us REAL ATCOs to talk on our ATCO forum about REAL issues. I am sure if you search the net then there is a forum for pretenders to chat. Why not hang around "Spotter's Corner?"
I do find your posts a laugh tho & have brought a smile to my face, ya joker!
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: middle earth
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
He's allowed an opinion, and I am a big fan of the Eurocontrol complexity results, so leave the lad be, as he said nobody's sending him to Scotland, and the cash you're counting will have to be splashed on big bids over asking price to get your abode in Prestwick
Fidgell, I think you will admit you are not among the majority in "your mad for going to Prestwick attitude" and that is the one of the morale nails at the moment.
You can't judge how busy a centre is by what regulations it has.
At MACC, we only do it if we cannot avoid it, which is not the case in other centres, we sit down and reroute/ change levels, MDI etc, so that the sectors still get a spanking, but a manageable one.
Our subroster is a minor perk for those who see it as one, I avoid it like the plague, hate it, menawhile perks like fantastic early goes on morning spins shifts are commonplace at LACC, and never ever seen at MACC, so its swings and roundabouts.
MACC is falling apart at the seams, its true, we run on good will, which is unfortunatley slowly dissipating, as the relocation package is a mess, no plans in place for management structure, huge training burden, just to make sure we go to Bonny Scotland with just the 30 short of our target staff. God forbid people leaving for Canada and Europe in the next year, or transferring down to the college or the lesser complex LACC for an easier less complex ride.
Selectaaaaaaaaaa
Fidgell, I think you will admit you are not among the majority in "your mad for going to Prestwick attitude" and that is the one of the morale nails at the moment.
You can't judge how busy a centre is by what regulations it has.
At MACC, we only do it if we cannot avoid it, which is not the case in other centres, we sit down and reroute/ change levels, MDI etc, so that the sectors still get a spanking, but a manageable one.
Our subroster is a minor perk for those who see it as one, I avoid it like the plague, hate it, menawhile perks like fantastic early goes on morning spins shifts are commonplace at LACC, and never ever seen at MACC, so its swings and roundabouts.
MACC is falling apart at the seams, its true, we run on good will, which is unfortunatley slowly dissipating, as the relocation package is a mess, no plans in place for management structure, huge training burden, just to make sure we go to Bonny Scotland with just the 30 short of our target staff. God forbid people leaving for Canada and Europe in the next year, or transferring down to the college or the lesser complex LACC for an easier less complex ride.
Selectaaaaaaaaaa
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
Posts: 2,001
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DTY/LKS Thanks for your kind words. If you are an ATCO doing the sectors your name implies, I often sit in the garden with my 10x50s and admire the comlpex contrail tapestries you and your colleagues weave in the skies over Mt Belzoni. Pretty amazing stuff
Beaver Liquor, what is a Gimp? I can find no reference to this term in Graham Duke's book (or an RAF en-route document that i have). Also.why did the last 'Gimp' go to Canada?
Beaver Liquor, what is a Gimp? I can find no reference to this term in Graham Duke's book (or an RAF en-route document that i have). Also.why did the last 'Gimp' go to Canada?
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hants
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From Wikipedia:
Vercingetorix (pronounced [werkiŋˈɡetoroi] in Latin, died 46 BC), was chieftain of the Arverni, originating from the Arvernian city of Gergovia and known as the man who led the Gauls in their ultimately unsuccessful war against Roman rule under Julius Caesar. Known primarily through Caesar's accounts, Vercingetorix's revolt is frequently used as a heroic example of Gallic virtue and resolve.
re. the Gimp, I was thinking more along the lines of the character from Pulp Fiction but hey, whatever.
Zooker, I think its unfortunate and ill-advised that you make comments about banding and complexity based on your spotting experience when we both know that if you plugged in with any controller at Prestwick/Manch/Swanwick you wouldnt have a clue what was going on.
Vercingetorix (pronounced [werkiŋˈɡetoroi] in Latin, died 46 BC), was chieftain of the Arverni, originating from the Arvernian city of Gergovia and known as the man who led the Gauls in their ultimately unsuccessful war against Roman rule under Julius Caesar. Known primarily through Caesar's accounts, Vercingetorix's revolt is frequently used as a heroic example of Gallic virtue and resolve.
re. the Gimp, I was thinking more along the lines of the character from Pulp Fiction but hey, whatever.
Zooker, I think its unfortunate and ill-advised that you make comments about banding and complexity based on your spotting experience when we both know that if you plugged in with any controller at Prestwick/Manch/Swanwick you wouldnt have a clue what was going on.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
Posts: 2,001
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Beaver, You are correct. I have not seen the movie you mention. I am not interested in fiction, (pulp or otherwise). I am interested in FACTS.
It is a FACT is it not, that MACC staff are remunerated less than the LACC en route controllers who are, according to complexity tables mentioned above, are responsible for less complex airspace, due in part to a pay banding formula which (allegedly) has been proven flawed.
This, along with the relocation to The New Prestwick Centre, (or should that be Prestwick Centre-The Noo), is one of the main undercurrents of the current MACC morale problems.
Also Beaver, I think you will find the underlying principles of ATC are fairly straightforward to understand. Even an ATC layperson such as 'Goldenballs' (Mr Beckham to you), would, if plugged in on Clacton for a couple of hours, get a good grasp of the procedures.
'GIMPY' would make an excellent waypoint, preferably in one of your sectors Beaver. (if indeed you are a controller).
'ZOOKA' would also be a good one. Probably suitable for more complex TMA Airspace!
It is a FACT is it not, that MACC staff are remunerated less than the LACC en route controllers who are, according to complexity tables mentioned above, are responsible for less complex airspace, due in part to a pay banding formula which (allegedly) has been proven flawed.
This, along with the relocation to The New Prestwick Centre, (or should that be Prestwick Centre-The Noo), is one of the main undercurrents of the current MACC morale problems.
Also Beaver, I think you will find the underlying principles of ATC are fairly straightforward to understand. Even an ATC layperson such as 'Goldenballs' (Mr Beckham to you), would, if plugged in on Clacton for a couple of hours, get a good grasp of the procedures.
'GIMPY' would make an excellent waypoint, preferably in one of your sectors Beaver. (if indeed you are a controller).
'ZOOKA' would also be a good one. Probably suitable for more complex TMA Airspace!
Last edited by ZOOKER; 26th Jan 2008 at 09:46.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hants
Posts: 2,295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Zooker
I work at Swanwick (TC) and therefore according to your figures and comments deserve the pay I get compared to MACC.
However as you have said yourself, the Banding is flawed - but exactly how accurate are Eurocontrols figures?
The complexity (both NATS and Eurocontrol) figures suit me because they put my unit at the top, but they disagree on other units.... which one is correct?
Obviously which set of figures you agree with depends on which unit you work at - no one will agree with figures that make them worse off!
With regards to Banding, complexity is not the only issue - traffic loading also comes into play. When the monthly traffic figures are announced Swanwick (AC) tends to always have the biggest year on year growth. Admittedly, the vast majority of these are overflights and therefore less complex, however the larger increase in traffic cannot be dismissed.
As for people complaining about sub rosters - if you have a complaint, see your union - they would have agreed to it.
Everywhere is going the same way, albeit under different names. At TC we have recently had several new shift times introduced - the are not classed as spins and could be thought of as a 'sub roster'.
Mahaba,
As always, we await your reply - even if it is to admit you are talking out of your derriere!
I work at Swanwick (TC) and therefore according to your figures and comments deserve the pay I get compared to MACC.
However as you have said yourself, the Banding is flawed - but exactly how accurate are Eurocontrols figures?
The complexity (both NATS and Eurocontrol) figures suit me because they put my unit at the top, but they disagree on other units.... which one is correct?
Obviously which set of figures you agree with depends on which unit you work at - no one will agree with figures that make them worse off!
With regards to Banding, complexity is not the only issue - traffic loading also comes into play. When the monthly traffic figures are announced Swanwick (AC) tends to always have the biggest year on year growth. Admittedly, the vast majority of these are overflights and therefore less complex, however the larger increase in traffic cannot be dismissed.
As for people complaining about sub rosters - if you have a complaint, see your union - they would have agreed to it.
Everywhere is going the same way, albeit under different names. At TC we have recently had several new shift times introduced - the are not classed as spins and could be thought of as a 'sub roster'.
Mahaba,
As always, we await your reply - even if it is to admit you are talking out of your derriere!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: southampton
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
meanwhile perks like fantastic early goes on morning spins shifts are commonplace at LACC,
Even an ATC layperson such as 'Goldenballs' (Mr Beckham to you), would, if plugged in on Clacton for a couple of hours, get a good grasp of the procedures.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Hants, UK
Posts: 1,064
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QUOTE
Perks like fantastic early goes on morning spins shifts are commonplace at LACC, and never ever seen at MACC,
UNQUOTE
Rubbish! I have just returned home from my morning spin shift at Swanwick AC. Rostered times 0600-1230. I was relieved from my position at 1218. If you think 12 mins makes all that difference then you are sadder than you appear!
We hear that 'half and half' nights are commonplace at ScACC and MACC whilst Swanwick AC are in [U]all night both[U]nights and the best you can hope for is a 2-hour break twice in the night. But of course the rumours from up north may be false.
As for the hard-luck stories about the move to Scotland... let me see:
ATCO pay much higher compared to the average local wage than it is down South;
Free university education for your children
Free personal care for your elderly relatives
5-bed detached for the price of a 3-bed semi...and much much more
Perks like fantastic early goes on morning spins shifts are commonplace at LACC, and never ever seen at MACC,
UNQUOTE
Rubbish! I have just returned home from my morning spin shift at Swanwick AC. Rostered times 0600-1230. I was relieved from my position at 1218. If you think 12 mins makes all that difference then you are sadder than you appear!
We hear that 'half and half' nights are commonplace at ScACC and MACC whilst Swanwick AC are in [U]all night both[U]nights and the best you can hope for is a 2-hour break twice in the night. But of course the rumours from up north may be false.
As for the hard-luck stories about the move to Scotland... let me see:
ATCO pay much higher compared to the average local wage than it is down South;
Free university education for your children
Free personal care for your elderly relatives
5-bed detached for the price of a 3-bed semi...and much much more
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Manchester
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
eye in the sky..........
seeing as the Prestwick move is such a good deal, Im guessing you will not be objecting when you get your posting there.
You are after all a mobile grade.
seeing as the Prestwick move is such a good deal, Im guessing you will not be objecting when you get your posting there.
You are after all a mobile grade.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cheshire, California, Geneva, and Paris
Age: 67
Posts: 867
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You blokes at Manchester make me laugh about the mobile grade clause because at one time you would not be moved from Manchester with dynamite. You have had a plum posting that lots of us expatriate Northerners would have killed for. Now you have to do what those of us at West Drayton and many other units have had to do over many years. Get over it and move to Scotland.
P.S. I retire in 2010 when Manchester closes so may I buy your house in leafy Cheshire when you move to Ayrshire?
P.P.S The American General George Patton said that in the dictionary you find the word "sympathy" in between **** and syphilis
P.S. I retire in 2010 when Manchester closes so may I buy your house in leafy Cheshire when you move to Ayrshire?
P.P.S The American General George Patton said that in the dictionary you find the word "sympathy" in between **** and syphilis
Last edited by DC10RealMan; 27th Jan 2008 at 15:17.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hants
Posts: 2,295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
eye in the sky -
Both sides at Swanwick have the same deal you are on about regarding nights, though the way the breaks are done are different. It would be nice to witness these fantastic early goes from morning spins, or non turn to nights!!
I suppose the bottom line is, is that whatever is said, MACC is being seen off more than anyone else. No argument or productin of facts will change that train of thought from those 'disadvantaged' ones.
Both sides at Swanwick have the same deal you are on about regarding nights, though the way the breaks are done are different. It would be nice to witness these fantastic early goes from morning spins, or non turn to nights!!
I suppose the bottom line is, is that whatever is said, MACC is being seen off more than anyone else. No argument or productin of facts will change that train of thought from those 'disadvantaged' ones.