Middle East salaries
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African Queen,
African Queen, and all other non-ACC SERCO contracts for that matter, I think you may not have all the pieces to the latest scenerio.
At the ACC, some expat ATCOs are hired by SERCO while other expat ATCOs (doing the same job off course) are hired directly by the GCAA, this is a situation that I believe does not occur at other stations, with the exception of local controllers being hired directly. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)
At the ACC, SERCO ATCO's HAD a better package than the GCAA expat controllers but that situation has been reversed now with the introduction of a new GCAA pay scheme that makes joining the GCAA a much better deal. (By a much better deal I mean if you are new or if you are currently NOT living in SERCO housing.)
In Al Ain, do you have the option of working for SERCO or the local airport authority? If so, then you are in a similar situation otherwise it is not a matter of SERCO forgetting about you but a matter of SERCO not caring about you.
By the way, the letter the rest of you did not receive more or less is a pathetic attempt by SERCO to call upon their employees' sense of loyalty. I would guess that SERCO felt that other units were not directly affected so there was point in embarrassing themselves in front of you fellows as well.
On the other hand, you may not have received a letter because paper costs money.
At the ACC, some expat ATCOs are hired by SERCO while other expat ATCOs (doing the same job off course) are hired directly by the GCAA, this is a situation that I believe does not occur at other stations, with the exception of local controllers being hired directly. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)
At the ACC, SERCO ATCO's HAD a better package than the GCAA expat controllers but that situation has been reversed now with the introduction of a new GCAA pay scheme that makes joining the GCAA a much better deal. (By a much better deal I mean if you are new or if you are currently NOT living in SERCO housing.)
In Al Ain, do you have the option of working for SERCO or the local airport authority? If so, then you are in a similar situation otherwise it is not a matter of SERCO forgetting about you but a matter of SERCO not caring about you.
By the way, the letter the rest of you did not receive more or less is a pathetic attempt by SERCO to call upon their employees' sense of loyalty. I would guess that SERCO felt that other units were not directly affected so there was point in embarrassing themselves in front of you fellows as well.
On the other hand, you may not have received a letter because paper costs money.
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The sinking feeling
Isn't it nice that while SERCO keeps on dragging its feet to actually take concrete measures it proudly announced to stop the mass exodus at Dubai, more ATCO's are resigning with each day that passes? Is SERCO actually waiting for the place to stop before it starts doing something I wonder 
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serco et al
all,
interesting posts on prune lately re the new GCAA pay and direct hire. One would hope this will now set a higher pay and better T&C's and possibly other DCA's to look at direct hire alternatives (incl DXB, al ain and AUH airport).
If GCAA can pay 40K dhs per month, then obviously so can the others, especially DXB andnow Jebel Ali. There still needs to some assistance with housing though, to make it attractive.
The days of these stations being run by Serco or any other contractor company are basically over. The relevant DCA's do now have the ability to run direct hire, and/or use the GCAA's experience in this area to their advantage to cut out the middle man (ie serco) and do this themselves. similiar to when they took over the running of countries oiil industry.
Its a win win win situation if they do it. for the local DCA's etc they will have a way better chance to gain and keep more staff with little if any increase in real costs, win for the controllers as they will be paid decent money (and reason to stay) as to what they expect, and win for the aviation industry in general as the more happier ATC staff, the better the service provided more efficency and less delays therefore less costs to airline and passengers re time and money.
Its time to do this, lets hope enough of the local people in the know read these comments and sieze the moment.
It could also be time to split the twr/app contracts. have the GCAA run all the approach services for the twrs and the area service and why not have (in the case of DXB have Dnata or the local DCA run the twr contract only, and provide housing in conjunction with Emirates) and the other DCA's run only tower????
Or at have the GCAA do all the hiring for the DCA's and the DCA's pay the salaries.
Due to the lack of experienced and willing controllers to move to the desert, the salaries will only continue to rise in the future. Long overdue and one Serco cant control anymore, it is like defying gravity, can only be done for a limited time before market forces (nature) resume their influence. Also, age limitations should be removed to entice more mature and experienced controllers there.
Once the DCA's see that Serco is not keeping to their side of the bargain (eg staffing or lack of causing delays) it will change.
I am sure that the current state of affairs will change very quickly over the next couple of years. Watch this space.
I had a manager in Muscat telling me only 12 months ago that 3500 OMR and above would never ever be seen in the Gulf as this amount of salary would not be tolerated by government or employers?
well CS I am afraid to tell you it is happening NOW and will continue to increase now the gates are open.
over and out...cheers
interesting posts on prune lately re the new GCAA pay and direct hire. One would hope this will now set a higher pay and better T&C's and possibly other DCA's to look at direct hire alternatives (incl DXB, al ain and AUH airport).
If GCAA can pay 40K dhs per month, then obviously so can the others, especially DXB andnow Jebel Ali. There still needs to some assistance with housing though, to make it attractive.
The days of these stations being run by Serco or any other contractor company are basically over. The relevant DCA's do now have the ability to run direct hire, and/or use the GCAA's experience in this area to their advantage to cut out the middle man (ie serco) and do this themselves. similiar to when they took over the running of countries oiil industry.
Its a win win win situation if they do it. for the local DCA's etc they will have a way better chance to gain and keep more staff with little if any increase in real costs, win for the controllers as they will be paid decent money (and reason to stay) as to what they expect, and win for the aviation industry in general as the more happier ATC staff, the better the service provided more efficency and less delays therefore less costs to airline and passengers re time and money.
Its time to do this, lets hope enough of the local people in the know read these comments and sieze the moment.
It could also be time to split the twr/app contracts. have the GCAA run all the approach services for the twrs and the area service and why not have (in the case of DXB have Dnata or the local DCA run the twr contract only, and provide housing in conjunction with Emirates) and the other DCA's run only tower????
Or at have the GCAA do all the hiring for the DCA's and the DCA's pay the salaries.
Due to the lack of experienced and willing controllers to move to the desert, the salaries will only continue to rise in the future. Long overdue and one Serco cant control anymore, it is like defying gravity, can only be done for a limited time before market forces (nature) resume their influence. Also, age limitations should be removed to entice more mature and experienced controllers there.
Once the DCA's see that Serco is not keeping to their side of the bargain (eg staffing or lack of causing delays) it will change.
I am sure that the current state of affairs will change very quickly over the next couple of years. Watch this space.
I had a manager in Muscat telling me only 12 months ago that 3500 OMR and above would never ever be seen in the Gulf as this amount of salary would not be tolerated by government or employers?
well CS I am afraid to tell you it is happening NOW and will continue to increase now the gates are open.
over and out...cheers
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yakkity yak,
SPOT ON Mate!!!
Somthing SURE is GONNA Happen.. You wait and see!
Soon DCA will ALSO Take Over DUB.........
Not ONLY are Ops ATCO's resigning, but ALSO Middle to TOP Management..... Our H of Tr is also leaving.....
Thats just the 1st, from 'them'....
Another 2 ATCOs resigned these last 2 weeks, apart from the next, in the Coming Weeks!!
DCA are ALSO personally phoning INDIVIDUAL ATCOs who have resigned, asking them WHY......AND.... offering them MORE n MORE n MORE than SERCO are actually paying........(Apart from the fact the $$ AMOUNT $$ SERCO make on EACH ATCO)..............
SPOT ON Mate!!!
Somthing SURE is GONNA Happen.. You wait and see!
Soon DCA will ALSO Take Over DUB.........
Not ONLY are Ops ATCO's resigning, but ALSO Middle to TOP Management..... Our H of Tr is also leaving.....
Thats just the 1st, from 'them'....
Another 2 ATCOs resigned these last 2 weeks, apart from the next, in the Coming Weeks!!
DCA are ALSO personally phoning INDIVIDUAL ATCOs who have resigned, asking them WHY......AND.... offering them MORE n MORE n MORE than SERCO are actually paying........(Apart from the fact the $$ AMOUNT $$ SERCO make on EACH ATCO)..............
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It has taken the Authorities a while to cotton on, but finally they realise they can pay guys substantially more than they are receiving from Serco and still save money. I mean you take the middle men out of the equation and both the ATCO and the Authority wins.
I have always been one of the only guys on here who has defended Serco, and said consistantly they would win the last contract when everyone else was saying they were gone. Well the fat lady is singing and unless Serco digs into their profit margin really really fast there will be a mass exodus across to GCAA. It (direct hire) won't suit everyone but it will suit enough guys that considering the extremely difficult ATCO recruitment situation at the moment, it will leave Serco high and dry with no way of filling their contract.
As I said, if Serco are so well placed to move and react to market forces, they better do just that and move quick cos the clock is ticking and every month guys just rated make huge amounts more than senior Serco guys the less likely it is that guys will stay loyal and avoid the temptation to cross over.
I have always been one of the only guys on here who has defended Serco, and said consistantly they would win the last contract when everyone else was saying they were gone. Well the fat lady is singing and unless Serco digs into their profit margin really really fast there will be a mass exodus across to GCAA. It (direct hire) won't suit everyone but it will suit enough guys that considering the extremely difficult ATCO recruitment situation at the moment, it will leave Serco high and dry with no way of filling their contract.
As I said, if Serco are so well placed to move and react to market forces, they better do just that and move quick cos the clock is ticking and every month guys just rated make huge amounts more than senior Serco guys the less likely it is that guys will stay loyal and avoid the temptation to cross over.
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ANSA...
"move and react to market forces"
In the Ozzy outback we use a cattle prod that has a substantial electric shock to move stubborn beasts.
Perhaps a cattle prod with an additional 5000 volts may get your Contract ManageR and the well oiled Serco machine of their hinds and look after their most important assets...
"move and react to market forces"
In the Ozzy outback we use a cattle prod that has a substantial electric shock to move stubborn beasts.
Perhaps a cattle prod with an additional 5000 volts may get your Contract ManageR and the well oiled Serco machine of their hinds and look after their most important assets...
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Red Dragon
I stand to correct myself.....I'm sure you understood what I meant, but gramatically I 'put it' wrong.......
U're RIGHT Mate, they're testing the water.....
But remember as ANSA stated......
The Clock is TICKING........
I stand to correct myself.....I'm sure you understood what I meant, but gramatically I 'put it' wrong.......
U're RIGHT Mate, they're testing the water.....
But remember as ANSA stated......
The Clock is TICKING........
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ME and Serco
prowler, red dragon et al
If it is fact that DXB DCA have been making some phone calls to those who have resigned, my question is what have the responses been.
This is the time to make it known to the local DCA, that if you want me this is what you will need to do for me. NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO SELL YOURSELVES SHORT FOR THOSE YOU LEAVE BEHIND OR WHO COME TO FILL YOUR SLOT
If this is the case that the DCA has made some calls, then you need to be telling them you want the same (at the very least) as the AUH GCAA guys [ie 40,000 per mth], health and life insurance, plus accommodation [or at the very least assistance with the payment of accommodation at least 60% of what decent accommodation costs, maybe they can do a deal with Emirates], trip home per year, gratuity of at least one months salary per year, a yearly bonus of at least one months salary (if you are a good boy/girl), and at least 49 calender days leave (7 weeks). If you are all telling them the same thing then at least they know what they have to fork out to make things happen.
My questions to prowler and red dragon and others on the spot in DXB is: when does the Serco contract come up for renewal again (I thought it expired in June 2007...has this been rolled over for antoher 2 year contract)and do you really think the local DCA will really start to do their own hiring in the next 6 to 12 months?
Also, how many is DXB short now, must be at least 20 plus?
recent info to hand shows that around 80 staff is the norm of which about 35% are locals and with the transfer to Jebel Ali in 2009 they will need around 120 staff..is this correct and if so how will Serco manage this and where will they get their staff from?
Have any DXB bods (with area ratings) applied to go back to AUH due to the better money?
I hate to say this, but the Serco will never pull out the cheque book, the company needs to make profit, they are not a charity, it is as simple as that. The current contract profit has been set in stone and they wont eat into too much of that profit, I can assure you. Paying the sort of money that is required is not going to make profit, in fact could quite easily turn into a loss and the managers resonsible for that would be knifed and lose thier bloody big bonus's. No they would probably just pull out and move on.
The fact that they are making some form of enquiry is encouraging and most likely due by the success of the recent GCAA direct hires. Remember they have a blossoming tourism industry to protect now and they will pay to do that.
over and out.
If it is fact that DXB DCA have been making some phone calls to those who have resigned, my question is what have the responses been.
This is the time to make it known to the local DCA, that if you want me this is what you will need to do for me. NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO SELL YOURSELVES SHORT FOR THOSE YOU LEAVE BEHIND OR WHO COME TO FILL YOUR SLOT
If this is the case that the DCA has made some calls, then you need to be telling them you want the same (at the very least) as the AUH GCAA guys [ie 40,000 per mth], health and life insurance, plus accommodation [or at the very least assistance with the payment of accommodation at least 60% of what decent accommodation costs, maybe they can do a deal with Emirates], trip home per year, gratuity of at least one months salary per year, a yearly bonus of at least one months salary (if you are a good boy/girl), and at least 49 calender days leave (7 weeks). If you are all telling them the same thing then at least they know what they have to fork out to make things happen.
My questions to prowler and red dragon and others on the spot in DXB is: when does the Serco contract come up for renewal again (I thought it expired in June 2007...has this been rolled over for antoher 2 year contract)and do you really think the local DCA will really start to do their own hiring in the next 6 to 12 months?
Also, how many is DXB short now, must be at least 20 plus?
recent info to hand shows that around 80 staff is the norm of which about 35% are locals and with the transfer to Jebel Ali in 2009 they will need around 120 staff..is this correct and if so how will Serco manage this and where will they get their staff from?
Have any DXB bods (with area ratings) applied to go back to AUH due to the better money?
I hate to say this, but the Serco will never pull out the cheque book, the company needs to make profit, they are not a charity, it is as simple as that. The current contract profit has been set in stone and they wont eat into too much of that profit, I can assure you. Paying the sort of money that is required is not going to make profit, in fact could quite easily turn into a loss and the managers resonsible for that would be knifed and lose thier bloody big bonus's. No they would probably just pull out and move on.
The fact that they are making some form of enquiry is encouraging and most likely due by the success of the recent GCAA direct hires. Remember they have a blossoming tourism industry to protect now and they will pay to do that.
over and out.
Last edited by yakkity yak; 26th Aug 2007 at 23:33.
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Just as Dubai needs extra bodies for Jebel Ali, Area needs lots of extra guys for the transition to the new centre, and that is one of the driving forces behind GCAA deciding to go out and get ATCO's themselves. Rather than paying salaries that are on a par with international salaries,GCAA have realised that you have to pay a premium above what guys can get at home, to entice them to the sandpit.
And Yakity Yak, 49 days annual leave? No way, a minimum of what we are getting now with Serco, 56 calendar days and no less. And don't believe the spin that Serco puts on this whole thing like the old chestnut "well we don't make much profit on this contract". There is enough profit margin in the contract to pay 40,000 dhs per controller and still make a tidy profit, but the question is are Serco willing to take the hit and do that. Probably not which means at the end of September when time runs out there will be a lot of ATCO's off Sercos books and they will then have to take an even bigger hit.
And Yakity Yak, 49 days annual leave? No way, a minimum of what we are getting now with Serco, 56 calendar days and no less. And don't believe the spin that Serco puts on this whole thing like the old chestnut "well we don't make much profit on this contract". There is enough profit margin in the contract to pay 40,000 dhs per controller and still make a tidy profit, but the question is are Serco willing to take the hit and do that. Probably not which means at the end of September when time runs out there will be a lot of ATCO's off Sercos books and they will then have to take an even bigger hit.
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lack of bodies
ANSA
yep, I am with you on the 56 days, but arent the GCAA guys currently only getting 45 days (or thereabouts) pa.
It seems to me that Serco just aren't up to the rapidly changing aviation environment and due to lack of scope in the company unable to change rapidly:: re technology, huge increase in traffic numbers and adjusting the contract conditions to suit what is now required in AUH and DXB primarily.
They need bodies fast and Serco cant get them, in fact they are losing them faster than they can replace them at both stations. This means they will be out of bodies and out of business before long.
The respective DCA's will have to act NOW or risk losing their place in the aviation world where they are experiencing breakneck growth in passenger and cargo traffic and the place everyone seems to want to fly. This is a risk the AUH & DXB governments are aware of and they will do something about it.
Over and out.
yep, I am with you on the 56 days, but arent the GCAA guys currently only getting 45 days (or thereabouts) pa.
It seems to me that Serco just aren't up to the rapidly changing aviation environment and due to lack of scope in the company unable to change rapidly:: re technology, huge increase in traffic numbers and adjusting the contract conditions to suit what is now required in AUH and DXB primarily.
They need bodies fast and Serco cant get them, in fact they are losing them faster than they can replace them at both stations. This means they will be out of bodies and out of business before long.
The respective DCA's will have to act NOW or risk losing their place in the aviation world where they are experiencing breakneck growth in passenger and cargo traffic and the place everyone seems to want to fly. This is a risk the AUH & DXB governments are aware of and they will do something about it.
Over and out.
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yakkity yak, prowler, red dragon et al
Lets start with the off + Annual leave days = Total 56 Calendar Days WHICH INCLUDE OFF DAYS!......You will be lucky to have the chance ot take your LEAVE..Mind You!
SERCO contract comes up for renewal again AT THE END of 2008....
Do you guys really think SERCO would do anything? Afterall DXB DCA are not so stupid to have signed a Contract with SERCO in the begining of 2007 for two years (2), & now in the middle of 2007 SERCO go back to DXB DCA asking for more &.......DXB DCA will comply & give in to SERCO's greedy demands???
SERCO being a profitable company should dig in their own pockets FOR ONCE, & try & save this whole farse! ME Thinks NOT.....
DXB WAS Short of approximately 20 ATCOs......Now 25'ish........By the End of the YEAR.....We WILL HAVE TO CLOSE SOME SECTORS & also Bye Bye Dual Rwy OPS if as 'anticipated' more Staff Resign!
TWR guys are ALSO working in their breaks to keep Dual Ops Running in Peak Times.....
Besides DXB..Now in the Near Future Dubai World Central - Biggest Airport in the World....... = Staff??? What STAFF?
DXB is already understaffed, how can SERCO get DWC / Jebel Ali Airport Contract.....?????
"The fact that they are making some form of enquiry is encouraging and most likely due by the success of the recent GCAA direct hires. Remember they have a blossoming tourism industry to protect now and they will pay to do that" - I bear with you on this.. but WILL ONLY KEEP My Fingers Crossed.......
Lets start with the off + Annual leave days = Total 56 Calendar Days WHICH INCLUDE OFF DAYS!......You will be lucky to have the chance ot take your LEAVE..Mind You!
SERCO contract comes up for renewal again AT THE END of 2008....
Do you guys really think SERCO would do anything? Afterall DXB DCA are not so stupid to have signed a Contract with SERCO in the begining of 2007 for two years (2), & now in the middle of 2007 SERCO go back to DXB DCA asking for more &.......DXB DCA will comply & give in to SERCO's greedy demands???
SERCO being a profitable company should dig in their own pockets FOR ONCE, & try & save this whole farse! ME Thinks NOT.....
DXB WAS Short of approximately 20 ATCOs......Now 25'ish........By the End of the YEAR.....We WILL HAVE TO CLOSE SOME SECTORS & also Bye Bye Dual Rwy OPS if as 'anticipated' more Staff Resign!
TWR guys are ALSO working in their breaks to keep Dual Ops Running in Peak Times.....
Besides DXB..Now in the Near Future Dubai World Central - Biggest Airport in the World....... = Staff??? What STAFF?
DXB is already understaffed, how can SERCO get DWC / Jebel Ali Airport Contract.....?????
"The fact that they are making some form of enquiry is encouraging and most likely due by the success of the recent GCAA direct hires. Remember they have a blossoming tourism industry to protect now and they will pay to do that" - I bear with you on this.. but WILL ONLY KEEP My Fingers Crossed.......
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What Else?
The Guys contacted by DCA have so far as I know been given an moderate increase but have refused asking for much more. When thinking about what we need here we must consider at least the following facts:
1) We are here for better living conditions which allow us to be better off than our home country (meaning better housing better standard of living etc).
2) Enough money to live comfortably and have that bit more to spend. This means the ability to send your children to decent schools and no need to skimp if you want to enjoy life a bit more.
3) Paid for transportation back home: most of us go back to our home countries more than once a year and for most people it helps us feel closer to home and makes living here so much easier.
4) Pension: for the older guys here remember that you must be saving something for retirement. Older Serco employees had a pension fund and can look forward to their retirement. This is not so now and part of your earnings should be going into some sort of fund and should be considered when making claims.
5) Perks: I know that EK employees benfit from all sort of reductions and exclusive memberships to hotels, restaurants etc. Small thing I know buy why shouldn't we have something similar?
6) Revision of conditons: with soaring increases in prices here we need to make sure that contracts are reviewed at least every two years if not yearly to account for inflation.
One last note: it is very easy to write all this down in a forum. I think the best way to move forward is to unite in some form of association which while not being an industrial union it can legally make sure that all controllers are treated fair and square. Just imagine if some of the guys start getting different contracts for doing the same job. Now that would be the final nail in the coffin not only for Serco but for ATC here!!
1) We are here for better living conditions which allow us to be better off than our home country (meaning better housing better standard of living etc).
2) Enough money to live comfortably and have that bit more to spend. This means the ability to send your children to decent schools and no need to skimp if you want to enjoy life a bit more.
3) Paid for transportation back home: most of us go back to our home countries more than once a year and for most people it helps us feel closer to home and makes living here so much easier.
4) Pension: for the older guys here remember that you must be saving something for retirement. Older Serco employees had a pension fund and can look forward to their retirement. This is not so now and part of your earnings should be going into some sort of fund and should be considered when making claims.
5) Perks: I know that EK employees benfit from all sort of reductions and exclusive memberships to hotels, restaurants etc. Small thing I know buy why shouldn't we have something similar?
6) Revision of conditons: with soaring increases in prices here we need to make sure that contracts are reviewed at least every two years if not yearly to account for inflation.
One last note: it is very easy to write all this down in a forum. I think the best way to move forward is to unite in some form of association which while not being an industrial union it can legally make sure that all controllers are treated fair and square. Just imagine if some of the guys start getting different contracts for doing the same job. Now that would be the final nail in the coffin not only for Serco but for ATC here!!
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Unless someone resigns and go to GCAA, Serco will do nothing. If you look at it from their perspective it makes sense not to do anything. It actually makes sense from any perspective. Why pay them to stay if nobody's leaving?
And herein lies the rub. The price of a Serco flat is unobtainable anywhere on your own. Stay in Serco accomodation on their salary and you earn X (take home). Move to GCAA, get more trading beans plus your own palace and maybe take home X minus 2000. If you are already out of Serco accomodation, this whole saga is a no-brainer. As much as it pains me to say it, but Serco is actually in a rather strong position.
If it was me sitting in the support office doing nothing, I would continue to do exactly that, nothing.
And herein lies the rub. The price of a Serco flat is unobtainable anywhere on your own. Stay in Serco accomodation on their salary and you earn X (take home). Move to GCAA, get more trading beans plus your own palace and maybe take home X minus 2000. If you are already out of Serco accomodation, this whole saga is a no-brainer. As much as it pains me to say it, but Serco is actually in a rather strong position.
If it was me sitting in the support office doing nothing, I would continue to do exactly that, nothing.
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Serco's gonna have to do something big or lose the contract, at least in DXB. Bottom line is the new airport. There is so much money going into its development that it will indeed open. The pride of the Emirates Aviation Group and local tourism depends on this. Anyone looking in from the outside will understand very quickly that this requires many, many more bodies. And the only way to attract worker bees is with serious money, er honey.
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Area Centre direct hire with GCAA the salary is 480,000 dh's per year tax free (96,000 Euro), plus 1 month salary per year gratuity, plus minimum one month bonus payment per year, plus 3-5 % annual increase per year for the next 5 years.