LL controllers in SUN EFPS shocker
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If the band 1,2 and 3 units are going to stubbornly attack us at every chance they get about our T and Ps compared to theirs reagrdless of the issue on the table, I hope you will reconsider your ways when the pensions issue comes round, as for once, it would be nice, no how about fu
ing critical that we stuck together and actually acted like profesionals.
ing critical that we stuck together and actually acted like profesionals.I agree this is getting out of hand. Yet this comment above leads me to feel that you still don't get our point. You say we should stick together with pensions. I say we should have stuck together with banding. What is to say that again if (again I doubt that they could but you never know) management manage to give the area and band 5 airport atco's a better deal YOU will vote for yourselves and not stick with us. I would guarantee if you counted the units as one vote per unit then the last pay offer would not have gone through. It did not favour the majority of units, especially the ones north of London
It is not an inferiority complex or us feeling sorry for ourselves. I am paid well as are you. BUT when the pay rises, benefits, compensation etc, is divided up and YOU get things and we don't, you are in theory taking it from my pocket and I object to that. We should all get a share.
We just do not have the same bargaining power as you, EGPD have more controllers than you but are not in the 'limelight' and are not 'valued' as high as you, as the esteemed Point7 kindly stated.
The point of a Union is to stick together and look after all, ESPECIALLY the minority who usually are 'walked on' by management. However this does not seem to happen in NATS. I'm sure someone will come on with the usual 'get involved or shut up' claptrap. However as a shopfloor ATCO3, who pays his subs for representation I am telling you how the majority of regional controllers feel.
The personal jibes have got out of hand. You work hard down there and are professionals like the rest of us. BUT you are well paid for it. Your scale goes up to £80 grand I believe which is way above ours. And now it seems you will be granted even more benefits. That is when it looks like you are taking the p*ss. You are looking after yourselves, fair enough, but the benefits you gain should apply to all and they won't.
Hold at Satan
"And why share the details of our WP offer with these guys. It's on a need to know basis and they just don't need to know"
I thought we were one company and you wanted us to 'stick together'? It is naive/ignorant comments like this that breeds resentment/division.
Bloody hell, I haven't written that much since my last 4114
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"And why share the details of our WP offer with these guys. It's on a need to know basis and they just don't need to know"
I thought we were one company and you wanted us to 'stick together'? It is naive/ignorant comments like this that breeds resentment/division.
Bloody hell, I haven't written that much since my last 4114
I thought we were one company and you wanted us to 'stick together'? It is naive/ignorant comments like this that breeds resentment/division.
Bloody hell, I haven't written that much since my last 4114
And again, if we are one company 'sticking together' why the constant digging at egll? If the grass is so much greener, get the heck over here and join us
GT3: of course, nothing but the finest for you
Last edited by hold at SATAN; 4th Dec 2006 at 18:11.
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Hold at Satan
"I meant it out of exasperation from the egll-bashing on this thread; whatever we get or don't get, somebody or somewhere is going to make some b1tchy comment about it - that's what spreads resentment/division. So let's get the WP agreed and then spread the good news throughout the kingdom "
So you get what you want, we get nothing, but if we dare make a comment that spreads resentment/division? Are you so thick skinned and insular?
Also good news for who? Heathrow, whoopee the boys win again (oops, I may spread resentment!)
"And again, if we are one company 'sticking together' why the constant digging at egll? If the grass is so much greener, get the heck over here and join us"
The digging is against the band 5 units, you are in the firing line. So we all apply to Heathrow to earn £80 grand. That justifies your huge pay and benefits then does it? What about the poor minions who cannot apply for personal reasons or the ones who can't be released or can't get in? I agree you should be paid more, don't get me wrong, but couldn't see what was wrong with the old system.
"I meant it out of exasperation from the egll-bashing on this thread; whatever we get or don't get, somebody or somewhere is going to make some b1tchy comment about it - that's what spreads resentment/division. So let's get the WP agreed and then spread the good news throughout the kingdom "
So you get what you want, we get nothing, but if we dare make a comment that spreads resentment/division? Are you so thick skinned and insular?
Also good news for who? Heathrow, whoopee the boys win again (oops, I may spread resentment!)
"And again, if we are one company 'sticking together' why the constant digging at egll? If the grass is so much greener, get the heck over here and join us"
The digging is against the band 5 units, you are in the firing line. So we all apply to Heathrow to earn £80 grand. That justifies your huge pay and benefits then does it? What about the poor minions who cannot apply for personal reasons or the ones who can't be released or can't get in? I agree you should be paid more, don't get me wrong, but couldn't see what was wrong with the old system.
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[QUOTE=hold at SATAN;3001825] ''If the grass is so much greener, get the heck over here and join us''.
It's like a stuck record
.OK then, top of the Band 5 scale,company accomodation,company air tickets every cycle to see the other half who has her own job,company car,no assessments,and the good news compensation for WP or whatever.Deal or no Deal?
It's only the going rate for experience.
No more radar.
It's like a stuck record
.OK then, top of the Band 5 scale,company accomodation,company air tickets every cycle to see the other half who has her own job,company car,no assessments,and the good news compensation for WP or whatever.Deal or no Deal?It's only the going rate for experience.
No more radar.
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[QUOTE=throw a dyce;3002324]
And they say we ask for a lot?!?!?
FB
''If the grass is so much greener, get the heck over here and join us''.
It's like a stuck record .OK then, top of the Band 5 scale,company accomodation,company air tickets every cycle to see the other half who has her own job,company car,no assessments,and the good news compensation for WP or whatever.Deal or no Deal?
It's only the going rate for experience. No more radar.
It's like a stuck record
.OK then, top of the Band 5 scale,company accomodation,company air tickets every cycle to see the other half who has her own job,company car,no assessments,and the good news compensation for WP or whatever.Deal or no Deal?It's only the going rate for experience.
No more radar. FB
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It shows how far top of the scale Band 2 is from Band 5. A 2 pay point rise hardly get you half way down Band 5.The rest is a suggestion to get people in for a few years to get your numbers up.TWR and APP radar controllers who are OJTI do not need assessment.You either validate or don't.I don't think it's out of order but it's NEVER going to happen.It's a good way to help your dwindling staff numbers out with some experience.Plenty companies in the big bad world do it.Who's short of staff?
Mind you my replacement probably hasn't started at the college yet.
Ps OK I'll just take the Nats car loan.
Mind you my replacement probably hasn't started at the college yet.
Ps OK I'll just take the Nats car loan.
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ckers on the M25 after a TC liaison visit when the arse dropped out off the gearbox in a traffic jam. 5 hours waiting for the company recovery service with nothing to drink other than an dodgy alcohol free beer that a kindly spanish truck driver donated... Then I had to p ss it out but that's a whole other story... And no I didn't get any overtime for getting home after dark.Heathrow... I sympathize but where I work traffic delays are on the increase annually and I have to add 15 mins extra to each journey to get to work on time and the security and minibus systems at the airport are a joke. We have to phone the airport everyday and then wait between 5 and 15 mins for it to arrive. Companies fault?... Partly. Lifestyle choice?.. Partly. I don't get extra pay for the time or phone calls but if I get that p"@ssed of with it I will just move to an airport that doesn't have these problems... If I can find one that doesn't have any gripe about any aspect of their day (unlikely)!
It's unfair but everyone has choices... If lifes that sh
te... Leave. And no crap about transfer times out of Lhr please. There are other employers after your skills but my deep suspicion is that no-one will leave over this because your still on a damn good wedge.Ciao. CR
Last edited by choclit runway; 7th Dec 2006 at 14:44. Reason: because I can
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Well done chaps. 
Fine bit of negotiating.
I believe the deal is 10 extra days leave for 2 years. I believe that is 10 days per year. So seeing as you are short staffed and will not be able to take this then you will be selling it back at a rate of £550 per leave day. So 10 1/2 Grand in 2 years.
How differently the 'valued' few are treated by this company. Before everyone starts I am not bitching personally at Heathrow, just at the company and I believe Union who, whilst looking after a minority for a change, are looking after a minority who can shout very loud!
I do not think this will start a precedence for the rest of us as some Heathrow boys stated previously, maybe a precedence for Heathrow negotiations in the future.
I am afraid giving certain units a 'bung' guys is what causes resentment.
Fine bit of negotiating.
I believe the deal is 10 extra days leave for 2 years. I believe that is 10 days per year. So seeing as you are short staffed and will not be able to take this then you will be selling it back at a rate of £550 per leave day. So 10 1/2 Grand in 2 years.
How differently the 'valued' few are treated by this company. Before everyone starts I am not bitching personally at Heathrow, just at the company and I believe Union who, whilst looking after a minority for a change, are looking after a minority who can shout very loud!
I do not think this will start a precedence for the rest of us as some Heathrow boys stated previously, maybe a precedence for Heathrow negotiations in the future.
I am afraid giving certain units a 'bung' guys is what causes resentment.
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Or get an AVAA on the leave day for £500 per day,because of staff shortages,because you need more leave.
Maybe we should do a North sea divers strike.One week out 40% increase.
Maybe we should do a North sea divers strike.One week out 40% increase.
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I think for the third time.......
The offer on the table is that we do get back leave days, but that it because the shifts in the new WP are longer. Shifts, as in the time from when you plug in, to the time at which you can walk out of the VCR.
Are you telling us all that if your next WP added an hour on to every shift, you would not expect anything back? Or would you just say to your management: "No, that's ok folks, I'm quite happy to work for longer for nothing"
The new, longer shifts, take the hours model over the max hours per month, so we have to have more leave to bring that down again.
The offer on the table is that we do get back leave days, but that it because the shifts in the new WP are longer. Shifts, as in the time from when you plug in, to the time at which you can walk out of the VCR.
Are you telling us all that if your next WP added an hour on to every shift, you would not expect anything back? Or would you just say to your management: "No, that's ok folks, I'm quite happy to work for longer for nothing"
The new, longer shifts, take the hours model over the max hours per month, so we have to have more leave to bring that down again.
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If your new model takes you over WP contracted hours and you need to bring it down by getting leave. No problems, fair negotiation for the boys.
The bit I don't understand is as follows...... our union rep states that you're getting 10 days extra leave to compensate for this. Fine, I understand that too.
But why are you only getting the extra leave for 2 years if this is a permanent change and your hours will be permanently over the agreed WP hours?? There's something slightly smelly about all of this......
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Because it's a staged change over two years, which ends up with an OR for 60, rather than 55 ATCOs, so therefore the hours get back below the max again without leave.
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Ahhhh see, it's interesting how the snippets keep coming out! Maybe there wouldn't have been so much LL apathy on the thread if everything was made black and white initially.
Have to say though, if you can't reach an OR of 55 at the moment, how the hell are you going to reach an OR of 60 in 2 years??
Have to say though, if you can't reach an OR of 55 at the moment, how the hell are you going to reach an OR of 60 in 2 years??
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