Airservices Australia Global Search for ATCs
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Brisbane?
Hi, i'm searching information concerning with Brisbane. I'm an italian air traffic controller, at present employed in the radar control centre of Milan, that manage all the air traffic in the northern part of Italy, About 2300 aircraft per day. I've read a part of your forum, i really would like to have some real information, not about money,but about real life. Here in Italy, Australia still look like a sort of happy island where you can wake up in the morning with a smile while you're looking at the sea. I'm 33, married with a son of 2 years, and i would like to make the jump, so i'm interested with any info about how an air traffic controller can survive there. Is your salary enough to enjoy the life with little things? I don't care to have a statue of gold, if they can offer also an equal or near salary, would be nice.
Last edited by wizblade; 10th Jan 2007 at 21:54. Reason: more info needed
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Hi Wizblade,
Are you after specific information about working in Brisbane Centre or living in Brisbane the city?
I work in Brisbane ATC, and after reading some posts from others on this forum, I almost wonder if I’m working in the same room as some others who’ve posted on this thread.
Basically, any ATC can have a comfortable living in Australia on our salary. You’ll be able to afford a comfortable house (with a mortgage) close to work and the people you work with will be friendly and helpful (including supervisors). Of course, as in most places, there’ll be one or two exceptions to this rule. You’ll get 5 weeks (or 6 weeks, if you work 24 hour roster) annual leave, and you’ll be able to afford a nice car. In regard to the rosters here, you’ll generally work 9 shifts each fortnight, and will not be REQUIRED to work any overtime.
I expect Australian ATC is done differently than most places, but I believe when busy, ATC workload is mostly similar worldwide. We have a lot less traffic here, but our procedures are generally bloated, so when we’re busy, it can become difficult. The job is relatively secure and the working conditions are good, compared to most other professions. After speaking to friends and former colleagues who now work overseas, it seems Management here is probably no better or worse than in other countries. They seem to have the same sort of complaints that we have here, but basically, you can become as involved or as uninvolved as you want.
Brisbane city (and South-East Queensland) is one of the nicer places to live in Australia because of its warmer climate. Accordingly, the population growth in this part of the country is high compared to other states. Unfortunately, the Queensland Government’s infrastructure is not keeping up as a result, although road traffic would be nothing like in your part of the world.
I think you’d find Brisbane (or anywhere in Australia for that matter) a nice place to live and work, but I think you’ll find it very different (slower pace) to what you’re used to.
Hope this helps.
Are you after specific information about working in Brisbane Centre or living in Brisbane the city?
I work in Brisbane ATC, and after reading some posts from others on this forum, I almost wonder if I’m working in the same room as some others who’ve posted on this thread.
Basically, any ATC can have a comfortable living in Australia on our salary. You’ll be able to afford a comfortable house (with a mortgage) close to work and the people you work with will be friendly and helpful (including supervisors). Of course, as in most places, there’ll be one or two exceptions to this rule. You’ll get 5 weeks (or 6 weeks, if you work 24 hour roster) annual leave, and you’ll be able to afford a nice car. In regard to the rosters here, you’ll generally work 9 shifts each fortnight, and will not be REQUIRED to work any overtime.
I expect Australian ATC is done differently than most places, but I believe when busy, ATC workload is mostly similar worldwide. We have a lot less traffic here, but our procedures are generally bloated, so when we’re busy, it can become difficult. The job is relatively secure and the working conditions are good, compared to most other professions. After speaking to friends and former colleagues who now work overseas, it seems Management here is probably no better or worse than in other countries. They seem to have the same sort of complaints that we have here, but basically, you can become as involved or as uninvolved as you want.
Brisbane city (and South-East Queensland) is one of the nicer places to live in Australia because of its warmer climate. Accordingly, the population growth in this part of the country is high compared to other states. Unfortunately, the Queensland Government’s infrastructure is not keeping up as a result, although road traffic would be nothing like in your part of the world.
I think you’d find Brisbane (or anywhere in Australia for that matter) a nice place to live and work, but I think you’ll find it very different (slower pace) to what you’re used to.
Hope this helps.
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SM4 Pirate:
with regards to the need for ATC in two years,how desperate is the need for Tower rated only controllers?I have 3 years of just tower experience.
Was interested only in the move to an airport in QLD area maybe archfield or similar.
Can you shed some light?
Nuckinfuts
Any info?
Many thanks
with regards to the need for ATC in two years,how desperate is the need for Tower rated only controllers?I have 3 years of just tower experience.
Was interested only in the move to an airport in QLD area maybe archfield or similar.
Can you shed some light?
Nuckinfuts
Any info?
Many thanks
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que,
Tower requirement is as bad as the enroute environment, especially with some outstation tower controllers wanting to get back to the centres or capital city towers.
Chance of getting a Qld tower are unknown, but if you get a tower job somewhere else, then you are in the system to move to a tower in Qld later on.
Why Archerfield? Go for Hamilton, Maroochydore, or somewhere far more pleasant.
Tower requirement is as bad as the enroute environment, especially with some outstation tower controllers wanting to get back to the centres or capital city towers.
Chance of getting a Qld tower are unknown, but if you get a tower job somewhere else, then you are in the system to move to a tower in Qld later on.
Why Archerfield? Go for Hamilton, Maroochydore, or somewhere far more pleasant.
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Alot of good stuff in there which I basically interpret as 'same sh!t, different country'
Standard of living is generally same as UK i guess but with better weather, more space, less traffic(cars) and generally less stress. Holidays will be cheaper cos you won't have to leave the country for the first few years as its got so much to offer domestically - unlike here unless Butlins has significantly improved in the last 20 years!
My application is in, if I hear anything else I'll keep you posted...
GL to anyone else going for it...
Standard of living is generally same as UK i guess but with better weather, more space, less traffic(cars) and generally less stress. Holidays will be cheaper cos you won't have to leave the country for the first few years as its got so much to offer domestically - unlike here unless Butlins has significantly improved in the last 20 years!
My application is in, if I hear anything else I'll keep you posted...
GL to anyone else going for it...
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Wouldn't it be nice if someone from ASA HR joined for a general q&a session?!
****su, DP & Nuts - I visited BNE ACC & TWR on Nov 05. Did I meet any of you? I was with a mate who's a VB FO.
ap
****su, DP & Nuts - I visited BNE ACC & TWR on Nov 05. Did I meet any of you? I was with a mate who's a VB FO.
ap
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@Kinobe
Kinobe, why not try Switzerland? They are hiring again I think, the pay is great (also the cost of living) and they have a great retirement plan and pension system. :-)
A few years ago I might have taken the ASA bait but now I am at a nicer bigger airport than then. :-)
A few years ago I might have taken the ASA bait but now I am at a nicer bigger airport than then. :-)
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Brisbane?
Hi Nuckinfuts, thank you very much, for your informations. You are the first one that speak in a positive way. That's what i need. I think job is quite similar to other places, and as of the most of us: I Love this Job, it makes me feel live! Concerning with the difficulties, I think it's only a problem of experience, the centre of Milan is one of the most busy and geographically difficult of Europe, due to the presence of the Alps. You said that your procedures are quite blocked, are you referring to radar area or approach service? Does Brisbane provide also approach service or is focused only to enroute? I know this question could appear strange, but Milan centre is divided in two parts, first one manage enroute traffic, and the second, approach service for the major airports. We make a large use of radar vectors due to high concentration of airplanes in a narrow area, ( is great as the Queensland!). I've read that you've already implemented Ads, is that true? If the lifestyle can make me able to afford a normal life, to guarantee a nice future for my family...that's what i want. Italy is a fantastic country, but year after year there is one problem that i feel growing:crimes and overpopulation that means run faster and faster, and always look behind your shoulders, i don't like that, i still want to look at life with a smile. Concerning with money, our salary( i'm talking about a rated area radar controller) is about 85000 euro(gross), that means 140000 australian dollars, but we have a taxation of 39%!!! I've read on the global research that the salary should be around 120000$, is that true? I hope you can answer also to this question, i know economy is different country by country, but i really would like to make the jump. My wife is in love with Australia she says that is one of few places where she would like to live( she has travelled all over the world). Greetings from Italy
Last edited by wizblade; 12th Jan 2007 at 14:21. Reason: more info needed
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DirtyPierre
Thanks for the reply,Wanted a tower near brisbane as I have my close family all living in brisbane and more to immigrate!Did visit the tower last year and had a chat to a lady secretary to the chief I think,anyway she says with my experience at a moderate traffic movement airport I would most likely go to a smaller station which I dont mind just somewhere close to BNE!
Regards
Thanks for the reply,Wanted a tower near brisbane as I have my close family all living in brisbane and more to immigrate!Did visit the tower last year and had a chat to a lady secretary to the chief I think,anyway she says with my experience at a moderate traffic movement airport I would most likely go to a smaller station which I dont mind just somewhere close to BNE!
Regards
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Mr Wizblade if you exclamation marks after 39% tax in Italy, you will have a coronary when you hear the tax rate in Australia (especially if you add in all the other taxes apart from Income tax, eg. GST, Stamp Duty, fuel excise, tax on cigarettes and alcohol). I read somewhere (sorry can't remember the source), that in Australia, an Australian in the top tax bracket pays out of their gross salary a total of 60% in taxes. Ouch!
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That's a little mischievous, AirNoServicesAustralia. Our tax rates cut in at different levels. I'm on the top of the FPC pay scale at $127,000. My fortnightly salary (without overtime) is $4329 of which I pay tax of $1330 - about 31%. I then pay GST on what I buy. If I'm frugal my overall tax is less than someone who isn't.
I'm covered by Medicare if I go to hospital. My son had his tonsils out a few years ago and I didn't pay a cent because he went into the public system. There's not many countries in the world where that happens.
By any comparison, someone living in Oz has a good standard of living on an ATC salary - and heaps of overtime to boot.
I'm covered by Medicare if I go to hospital. My son had his tonsils out a few years ago and I didn't pay a cent because he went into the public system. There's not many countries in the world where that happens.
By any comparison, someone living in Oz has a good standard of living on an ATC salary - and heaps of overtime to boot.
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Some basic facts about Civil ATC in Oz:
- Two enroute centres, Brisbane and Melbourne.
- both centres are responsible for all enroute services in Oz
- Melbourne also provides approach for Melbourne & Canberra, Brisbane does approach for Brisbane and Coolangatta.
- Approach units at Sydney, Adelaide, Perth and Cairns
- there are a number of outstation towers
go to the Airservices website for more detail or if you PM me, I can send you a little powerpoint presentation that has more info.
The Airservices Australia website is:
http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/default.asp
- Two enroute centres, Brisbane and Melbourne.
- both centres are responsible for all enroute services in Oz
- Melbourne also provides approach for Melbourne & Canberra, Brisbane does approach for Brisbane and Coolangatta.
- Approach units at Sydney, Adelaide, Perth and Cairns
- there are a number of outstation towers
go to the Airservices website for more detail or if you PM me, I can send you a little powerpoint presentation that has more info.
The Airservices Australia website is:
http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/default.asp
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Hi Wizblade,
In answer to your questions, no place in Australia is geographically difficult. Our tallest mountain is only about 7000ft and it’s in a designated ‘remote’ area, so it’s not close to any major air routes. When I said co-ordination is ‘bloated’, I mean it can be “verbose” or more than what is really needed. It’s not difficult, just too much of it.
Brisbane centre has both Approach and En-Route functions, but I would expect most entrants would be placed in En-Route, as there are significantly more positions in En-Route. Approach is probably a bit more difficult than En-Route, but the pay scale is identical. Transfers from En-route to Approach are available periodically, but you would have to be selected in an order of merit from the other applicants.
ADS-B is currently being implemented, but its use is not widespread at the moment. I expect this will occur over the next few years.
In regard to salary, I expect to get somewhere between $140,000 & $150,000AUD this year, depending on how much overtime I accept, but I’m on the top increment for ATC pay scale. I will have about one third of this deducted as income tax, leaving me with a disposable income of around $90,000 AUD. (I have friends, not ATC, that get about $50,000AUD before tax is taken and they seem to live quite comfortably, so don’t worry about too much about income tax and being able to afford to live here.) Although, your starting pay rate with Airservices would have be negotiated by you, but my feeling is the salary anyone in your position could negotiate, would be around $60,000 to $80,000AUD; don’t ask me why, but that’s what I think…… but I’ve been wrong before???? You will also receive an annual pay rise, until you reach the top pay scale. The time frame for this depends on what level you start from, but will probably take about 8 years (my guess?).
Also, there’s very little crime here in comparison to what you’re experiencing and personal safety is no concern at all. If your major concern is quality of life, don’t even worry about the negatives of ATC in Australia. We all complain mainly because we have spare time to do it.
In answer to your questions, no place in Australia is geographically difficult. Our tallest mountain is only about 7000ft and it’s in a designated ‘remote’ area, so it’s not close to any major air routes. When I said co-ordination is ‘bloated’, I mean it can be “verbose” or more than what is really needed. It’s not difficult, just too much of it.
Brisbane centre has both Approach and En-Route functions, but I would expect most entrants would be placed in En-Route, as there are significantly more positions in En-Route. Approach is probably a bit more difficult than En-Route, but the pay scale is identical. Transfers from En-route to Approach are available periodically, but you would have to be selected in an order of merit from the other applicants.
ADS-B is currently being implemented, but its use is not widespread at the moment. I expect this will occur over the next few years.
In regard to salary, I expect to get somewhere between $140,000 & $150,000AUD this year, depending on how much overtime I accept, but I’m on the top increment for ATC pay scale. I will have about one third of this deducted as income tax, leaving me with a disposable income of around $90,000 AUD. (I have friends, not ATC, that get about $50,000AUD before tax is taken and they seem to live quite comfortably, so don’t worry about too much about income tax and being able to afford to live here.) Although, your starting pay rate with Airservices would have be negotiated by you, but my feeling is the salary anyone in your position could negotiate, would be around $60,000 to $80,000AUD; don’t ask me why, but that’s what I think…… but I’ve been wrong before???? You will also receive an annual pay rise, until you reach the top pay scale. The time frame for this depends on what level you start from, but will probably take about 8 years (my guess?).
Also, there’s very little crime here in comparison to what you’re experiencing and personal safety is no concern at all. If your major concern is quality of life, don’t even worry about the negatives of ATC in Australia. We all complain mainly because we have spare time to do it.
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taxation
Hi Airnoservicesaustralia, I've searched in the net many informations about taxes in Australia, i've also had relations with some guys which have lived there for a period. My 39% is referred only to taxes on the salary, if add also others such as gasoline, house, cars, medical assistance and so on, i think also in Italy we will reach easily about 50% 60%. Our problem is that we have a lot of little taxes coming out as mushrooms. Thanks a lot for these informations, they will help to make the right choice (i Hope). Just another question: Are you satisfied of your lifestyle? I love my country, but unfortunately nothing works as it would! I would accept all these taxation if i could see any result but i'm blind, otherwise nothing happens. Some friends of mine told me that in Australia the situation is quite different, is that true? They have lived there for six months and told me that it's another world, is it the point of view of stranger people, or also Australians think that way? How is the situation of crimes? Is that the true that you don't need to put slabs on your windows and alarms in your house? Can you really still have a walk during the night in the centre of your city without fear of any aggression? This situation in Italy is becoming unsupportable, also if it is only in great cities.
Any info about that would be appreciated. Greetings
Any info about that would be appreciated. Greetings
Last edited by wizblade; 13th Jan 2007 at 00:20.
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Great!
Hi Nuckinfuts, you don't know how you're making me feel better. Regarding to the passage from enroute to approach position, it' similar to ours, and now i've understood what you were talking about when you told "boated procedures". I think that the first step should be making the jump, anything else will come day by day. Also if we are at the beginning of the selection, i consider a good state of mind as one of the most important aspects to face that in the best way. One last information: some friends of mine which have lived there for about six months, told me that during the summer the level of the humidity is very high, is that true? I'm monitoring also the weather conditions since one month, and it doesn't seems correct. I appreciate very much your help, thanks.
Last edited by wizblade; 13th Jan 2007 at 00:22.
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Weather conditions in many parts of Oz have been unusual (drought related) in recent times. BNE is usually humid!
BTW - In terms of what I had been saying about crazy real-estate prices now, compared to years past ... PER now is the world's fifth most expensive city in terms of realestate (median houseprice vs income)! (It would have been around 150th a few years back
)
WRT the crime ... its still not bad in most parts of Oz, however we are well past the days of leaving doors unlocked, etc. Bit of a lottery about walking some streets at night. (And Oz cities still cant compete with European cities for actually having a reason to be in them at night! Most go to sleep at night ... move along, nothing to see!).
BTW - In terms of what I had been saying about crazy real-estate prices now, compared to years past ... PER now is the world's fifth most expensive city in terms of realestate (median houseprice vs income)! (It would have been around 150th a few years back
)WRT the crime ... its still not bad in most parts of Oz, however we are well past the days of leaving doors unlocked, etc. Bit of a lottery about walking some streets at night. (And Oz cities still cant compete with European cities for actually having a reason to be in them at night!
Most go to sleep at night ... move along, nothing to see!).
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Hi wizblade,
Another Number is correct in regard to Brisbane’s climate. Summer is usually humid with temperatures normally around 35 degrees. It’s something that you get used to after one summer, but it’s very good for outdoor activities (and good beer drinking weather – you can get Pironi in Australia too). Although, we’ve had cooler than normal weather so far this summer, so if your friends are finding it very humid at the moment, you may want to look for a house with air conditioning????
Also, good or bad weather all depends on your expectation; I have friends who moved here from Canberra early last year, and they told me that there hasn’t been one “bad day” (weather wise) since they arrived, so I think it’s more to do with what you expect. Personally, I like the climate here and I think most Australians do; which is the main reason for the high population growth in south-east Queensland.
Unfortunately(?), Brisbane has Stradbroke Island located just off the coast and as a result, there is no surfing here, so if you want that, along with the afternoon (cooler) sea breeze, you’d have to drive (or live) at the “Sunshine Coast” (1 hour drive north of here) or the “Gold Coast” (1 hour south). Some controllers I work with, live in these areas and commute to work each day. Because of the shift work, the drive is usually in the quieter non peak periods, so it’s not too demanding. Anyway, if you want any more info, let me know, or you can send a PM. Cheers.
Another Number is correct in regard to Brisbane’s climate. Summer is usually humid with temperatures normally around 35 degrees. It’s something that you get used to after one summer, but it’s very good for outdoor activities (and good beer drinking weather – you can get Pironi in Australia too). Although, we’ve had cooler than normal weather so far this summer, so if your friends are finding it very humid at the moment, you may want to look for a house with air conditioning????
Also, good or bad weather all depends on your expectation; I have friends who moved here from Canberra early last year, and they told me that there hasn’t been one “bad day” (weather wise) since they arrived, so I think it’s more to do with what you expect. Personally, I like the climate here and I think most Australians do; which is the main reason for the high population growth in south-east Queensland.
Unfortunately(?), Brisbane has Stradbroke Island located just off the coast and as a result, there is no surfing here, so if you want that, along with the afternoon (cooler) sea breeze, you’d have to drive (or live) at the “Sunshine Coast” (1 hour drive north of here) or the “Gold Coast” (1 hour south). Some controllers I work with, live in these areas and commute to work each day. Because of the shift work, the drive is usually in the quieter non peak periods, so it’s not too demanding. Anyway, if you want any more info, let me know, or you can send a PM. Cheers.
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Here we are again Nuckinfuts, i've just read your answer. I'm considering Brisbane because of its climate. Consider that in this period, that is summer for you, here in Milan we have temperature between 5 and-3 C°. Anyway thanks for your availability,( also for PM) it' important to have contacts with a person living there, i can only imagine at present, but i like what i see. Instead of drinking Peroni we can consider also to have a XXXX beer! Cheers for now-
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hi all,
i am working enroute in austria and followed this thread for some days now and (thanks to wizblade ;-) btw i would also appreciate bris) most of my questions have been answered. i recently applied online and am now wondering how long it will probably take until i get a response or rather what may i expect next - an invitation to fly over for an interview?
and about habitation .. i don't surf (yet), actually i think i would even fall off a surfboard when it's still on land but i'd love a place close to the ocean so which areas are best to search for both closeness to water and working place?
thanks in advance and cheers from austria!
i am working enroute in austria and followed this thread for some days now and (thanks to wizblade ;-) btw i would also appreciate bris) most of my questions have been answered. i recently applied online and am now wondering how long it will probably take until i get a response or rather what may i expect next - an invitation to fly over for an interview?
and about habitation .. i don't surf (yet), actually i think i would even fall off a surfboard when it's still on land but i'd love a place close to the ocean so which areas are best to search for both closeness to water and working place?
thanks in advance and cheers from austria!
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Hi thesunnysideup, they should contact us at the end of January. Concerning with the meeting, i suppose they'll make the same as the New Zealand, it means that they will choose a city of Europe where meet the applicants but it's just my thought. Anyway you,ve a companion regarding surf, i'll also have to start from the begin...it will be a pleasure, but what about the Australian boys looking with a smile to these two ridiculous european that are trying to stand up on a surf table?