Inverness Radar
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I think it was Aberdeen. Even in the good old days of massively subsidised air transport I don't think BOAC would have funded a return VC7 trip to Sumburgh for the odd single pax. Lovely aircraft though
. I think one of them (MOG/MON) is about to go the museum at East Fortune?
NS
. I think one of them (MOG/MON) is about to go the museum at East Fortune?NS
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Tick tick tick.......BOOM!
I'm glad that you guys have such fond memories!
By the sound of things I've only been in this game for a relatively short period compared to some, but I have some fond memories also. When I started in the frozen north, every scheduled aircraft was a box with wings - the glorious shed!. They still fly of course, but these days they carry the mail rather than the old self-loading freight.
Back to the real issue though.....
Last week, Stornoway airport came within a 'ball-hair' of closure - and I don't mean the Sratcoh type. Only direct action by SRG prevented a situation whereby the airport would have had no SATCO and no accountibility.
The sheer arrogance of ATS management was willing to risk the integrity of the unit through nothing more than stubborness and a determination not to be dictated to by 'ATCO upstarts'.
The tragic irony in all of this is that the "ATCO upstarts" concerned have been HIAL employees for eons and actually have the company interests at heart.
I have enjoyed working for HIAL for 9 years now and believe it or not I'd like to give the company the rest of my career. But there are too many
in postions of authority now, with no aviation/ATC experience. A big cloud of is forming over HIAL and anyone within spitting distance is liable to be covered in it before long. That is why I have submitted applications to Liverpool, Isle of Man and Belfact City. I know of at least 2 others who have done the same and I'm convinced there will be others besides. We wont all get jobs, but with HIAL staffing already extremely tight, even 2 or 3 leaving will create major problems.
Of course, the Bus Conductor will no doubt employ a few dozen drivers from Poland to replace us. The Call Centre Queen will write up terms and conditions accordingly and the Military man will blow his trumpet loudly in the corner until his face is purple.
By the way, HIAL are under-going rebranding. HIAL will no longer be HIAL. They will be HIA (pronounced "HI") But the best is yet to come.....
There are plans for the new Approach Radar service at Inverness to reflect its future status as a multi-function radar approach service for several HIA airfields. Therefore it will not be "Inverness Approach" but "HI Radar". So there you have it chaps.
"Hi Radar, this is Midland 692U"
What a farce...
Yours mightily off,
Highland D.
By the sound of things I've only been in this game for a relatively short period compared to some, but I have some fond memories also. When I started in the frozen north, every scheduled aircraft was a box with wings - the glorious shed!. They still fly of course, but these days they carry the mail rather than the old self-loading freight.
Back to the real issue though.....
Last week, Stornoway airport came within a 'ball-hair' of closure - and I don't mean the Sratcoh type. Only direct action by SRG prevented a situation whereby the airport would have had no SATCO and no accountibility.
The sheer arrogance of ATS management was willing to risk the integrity of the unit through nothing more than stubborness and a determination not to be dictated to by 'ATCO upstarts'.
The tragic irony in all of this is that the "ATCO upstarts" concerned have been HIAL employees for eons and actually have the company interests at heart.
I have enjoyed working for HIAL for 9 years now and believe it or not I'd like to give the company the rest of my career. But there are too many
in postions of authority now, with no aviation/ATC experience. A big cloud of is forming over HIAL and anyone within spitting distance is liable to be covered in it before long. That is why I have submitted applications to Liverpool, Isle of Man and Belfact City. I know of at least 2 others who have done the same and I'm convinced there will be others besides. We wont all get jobs, but with HIAL staffing already extremely tight, even 2 or 3 leaving will create major problems. Of course, the Bus Conductor will no doubt employ a few dozen drivers from Poland to replace us. The Call Centre Queen will write up terms and conditions accordingly and the Military man will blow his trumpet loudly in the corner until his face is purple.
By the way, HIAL are under-going rebranding. HIAL will no longer be HIAL. They will be HIA (pronounced "HI") But the best is yet to come.....
There are plans for the new Approach Radar service at Inverness to reflect its future status as a multi-function radar approach service for several HIA airfields. Therefore it will not be "Inverness Approach" but "HI Radar". So there you have it chaps.
"Hi Radar, this is Midland 692U"
What a farce...
Yours mightily
off, Highland D.
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Hi HD
If you fancy staying in the frozen north I hear Scatsta are running short of ATCOs.... but then you may find that the grass isn't always greener elsewhere! If PPrune is to be believed, morale at a couple of your other possible destinations isn't brilliant either. Best of luck whichever you choose.
If you fancy staying in the frozen north I hear Scatsta are running short of ATCOs.... but then you may find that the grass isn't always greener elsewhere! If PPrune is to be believed, morale at a couple of your other possible destinations isn't brilliant either. Best of luck whichever you choose.
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Originally Posted by Highland Director
That is why I have submitted applications to Liverpool, Isle of Man and Belfact City. I know of at least 2 others who have done the same and I'm convinced there will be others besides. We wont all get jobs, but with HIAL staffing already extremely tight, even 2 or 3 leaving will create major problems.
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Think they thought they could save considerable amounts of money!!!
Hasn't happened really. If all is to be taken into consideration are more fingers needed to shore up the HIAL dyke?
Good luck HD with your endeavours. 
Hasn't happened really. If all is to be taken into consideration are more fingers needed to shore up the HIAL dyke?
Good luck HD with your endeavours.
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Originally Posted by chevvron
Makes you wonder why NATS sold HIAL in the first place.
In order to cut costs the group became known as HIAL, a wholly owned subsidiary of the CAA. This allowed them to employ staff on different contracts to CAA/NATS staff (my basic ATCO wage when I left 10 years or so ago was about £18K). To a certain extent this worked well because the company could still take NATS staff (who were interested) to plug any staff shortages, although there was no right of movement the other way.
The big problem arose though when the privitisation of CAA/NATS became part of the agenda. There was absolutely no way this could happen when part of the company was attracting large subsidies from both the UK Government and the EU. Hence ownership of the company was passed from the CAA to the Scottish Office.
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Originally Posted by Highland Director
There are plans for the new Approach Radar service at Inverness to reflect its future status as a multi-function radar approach service for several HIA airfields. Therefore it will not be "Inverness Approach" but "HI Radar"
NS
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The Stagecoach wizard will wave his magic wand and the Magic Circle will all stand to attention and believe the radar project can be achieved and completed on time. Highland Director is right, HIAL is no longer a pleasant working environment with politics outstripping the day to day business of operating an ATC unit. If some of us do leave the brown stuff WILL hit the fan and very quickly, we're not all bonded, watch this space.......
Highland Director is right, HIAL is no longer a pleasant working environment with politics outstripping the day to day business of operating an ATC unit. If some of us do leave the brown stuff WILL hit the fan and very quickly, we're not all bonded, watch this space.......
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Inverness Radar progress?
Anyone able to update the situation with Inverness Radar - is the equipment in place and staffing issues resolved?
If radar is to be in place, during full opening hours 7 days a week, by summer I suppose the project's progressing apace and most staff needed are recruited and currently training to some degree.
An earlier post hinted that the Lossie agreement may end early next year whether the Inverness radar project is ready or not - is that likely?
I understand delays of more than 30 mins are common on the ground during weekends and at other times Lossie aren't providing a service. Can't see the airlines accepting that for long.
SotN
If radar is to be in place, during full opening hours 7 days a week, by summer I suppose the project's progressing apace and most staff needed are recruited and currently training to some degree.
An earlier post hinted that the Lossie agreement may end early next year whether the Inverness radar project is ready or not - is that likely?
I understand delays of more than 30 mins are common on the ground during weekends and at other times Lossie aren't providing a service. Can't see the airlines accepting that for long.
SotN
Last edited by Sage of the North; 8th Sep 2006 at 13:12.
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Inverness Radar
"I understand delays of more than 30 mins are common on the ground during weekends and at other times Lossie aren't providing a service. Can't see the airlines accepting that for long."
A lot of the delays at times are unfortunately caused when QS are doing the Radar service. Certainly seen a few aircraft held up during the week due to QS not being willing to depart aircraft! From a pilots point of view weekend's can actually be less delayed than during the week, especially in good weather. VFR aircraft are just passed as traffic info and not required to squawk ident before almost every movement. Probably no fault of Lossiemouth though they have their rules to obey.
A lot of the delays at times are unfortunately caused when QS are doing the Radar service. Certainly seen a few aircraft held up during the week due to QS not being willing to depart aircraft! From a pilots point of view weekend's can actually be less delayed than during the week, especially in good weather. VFR aircraft are just passed as traffic info and not required to squawk ident before almost every movement. Probably no fault of Lossiemouth though they have their rules to obey.
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Hear hear Lifes2good. The Lossie agreement and its peculiar restrictions is now commercially penalising HIA and its airline operators with the dreadful delays it causes.
I'm sure the most tempting thing the INV ATCOs could do is leave the QS phone off the hook, launch everyone and go home!
I'm sure the most tempting thing the INV ATCOs could do is leave the QS phone off the hook, launch everyone and go home!
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Inverness Radar
Thanks for that Kiltie, I'm sure a few of the pilots around Inverness also feel the same way at times.
Remember though it was only an interim agreement that has probably overstayed its course.
Remember though it was only an interim agreement that has probably overstayed its course.
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Inverness Radar?
Anyone able to update the situation with Inverness Radar - is the equipment in place and staffing issues resolved?
If radar is to be in place, during full opening hours 7 days a week, by summer I suppose the project's progressing apace and most staff needed are recruited and currently training to some degree.
An earlier post hinted that the Lossie agreement may end early next year whether the Inverness radar project is ready or not - is that likely?
I understand delays of more than 30 mins are common on the ground during weekends and at other times Lossie aren't providing a service. Can't see the airlines accepting that for long.
Are those roosting chickens that I can see making their way home?
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HD,
It appears that all is not well in the frozen north. Judging from what has gone before in this thread I gather that it is not simply a matter of the project being miss managed by HIAL. There appears to be a deeper rooted problem with Management. Those of us in the south keep hearing whispers but nothing concrete. Care to enlighten us I have always fancied seeing out my time up there but reading between the lines would think twice at the moment.
It appears that all is not well in the frozen north. Judging from what has gone before in this thread I gather that it is not simply a matter of the project being miss managed by HIAL.
There appears to be a deeper rooted problem with Management. Those of us in the south keep hearing whispers but nothing concrete. Care to enlighten us I have always fancied seeing out my time up there but reading between the lines would think twice at the moment.
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It appears that all is not well in the frozen north. Judging from what has gone before in this thread I gather that it is not simply a matter of the project being miss managed by HIAL. There appears to be a deeper rooted problem with Management. Those of us in the south keep hearing whispers but nothing concrete. Care to enlighten us I have always fancied seeing out my time up there but reading between the lines would think twice at the moment.
Well.....
The HIAL board appointed a new MD last year. He has a degree in Transport technology and was previously the MD of Stagecoach East having worked his way up from depot manager (hence the numerous bus conducter jibes).
When he arrived at HIAL, he quickly created a stir by sacking two senior managers. Not long ago, the operations manager resigned. His departure left HIAL without any credible authority on Airport Operations. The current Manager of ATS (whose operational experience in civil ATC consists of a handful of years on a remote Hebridean island) has made a catalogue of poor decisions. Many staff at EGPE and beyond have grievances over many issues.
Last week, HIA anounced the appointment of a new operations manager before the internal vacancy notice had even closed. It is little wonder the majority of staff don't trust the regime.
The MD is on a mission to errode the current company Terms & Conditions and in addition to his intoduction of a second rate T&S policy, he has proposals to introduce a new redundancy policy with reduced benefits. The ultimate goal is to cut costs no matter what. He would appear to have little regard for regulators, viewing certain requirements as unneccessary expenditure. Staff at EGPE who are being de-skilled by being forced into 'tower-only' positions fear for their jobs.
There is no communication whatsoever from management throughout all this and all the long serving staff (not just ATCOs) feel well and truly shafted.
I hope that is sufficient enlightenment!
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I do have some sympathy with management [puts on steel helmet and flak jacket]. While some of the measures seem completely out of order and questionable on the legal front.....from what you describe anyway....I am not too surprised. I did a tour in H&I and I worked alone on a five and a half day week.....loved every minute.
I visited the place more recently and found a situation beyond credibilty....a raft of controllers and reliefs.....a Fire service doubled in size.....about half the traffic level....and the actual aircraft significantly smaller in size and passenger load. The economics of a mad-house.
On the other hand there appears to be an airport run on traditional H&I mentality that is clearly no longer an H&I airfield.....it is a busy and expanding regional airport that requires a different mindset.
I think market forces and operator pressure might be employed to good use in bringing home reality. By the way, I hope the team are union members....what does the union say?
I visited the place more recently and found a situation beyond credibilty....a raft of controllers and reliefs.....a Fire service doubled in size.....about half the traffic level....and the actual aircraft significantly smaller in size and passenger load. The economics of a mad-house.
On the other hand there appears to be an airport run on traditional H&I mentality that is clearly no longer an H&I airfield.....it is a busy and expanding regional airport that requires a different mindset.
I think market forces and operator pressure might be employed to good use in bringing home reality. By the way, I hope the team are union members....what does the union say?
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I visited the place more recently and found a situation beyond credibilty....a raft of controllers and reliefs.....a Fire service doubled in size.....about half the traffic level....and the actual aircraft significantly smaller in size and passenger load. The economics of a mad-house.
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Hooligan Bill....Good points made....thanks for that.
Now we're getting nearer to the root problem. Completely ineffective management has failed to grasp the unique qualities needed to run H&I airfields. Regulations seem to be applied in a one-size-fits-all methodolgy; surely the ATC regulation needs of an "Inverness" are not the same as a quiet remote location that has only one or two movements per hour. When H&I management realise the penalties of such draconian rules and start to negotiate special exemptions from inappropriate application then there will be light at the end of the tunnel. Inverness should be the crown jewel but instead it is starved of proper resources. You can't run a major regional airport on a shoestring budget that also has to support money-hungry remote airfields that operate to provide grossly uneconomical social needs.
Perhaps there is an argument for a Scottish CAA as part of the Scottish Parliament that is far more in tune with reality.
At one location you seem to have controllers that work busy Approach procedural [in my view the most demanding of all ATC disciplines] and at another location you have one controller who works the one inbound and takes a relief break to allow the second controller to work the one outbound.
Time to get political!
Now we're getting nearer to the root problem. Completely ineffective management has failed to grasp the unique qualities needed to run H&I airfields. Regulations seem to be applied in a one-size-fits-all methodolgy; surely the ATC regulation needs of an "Inverness" are not the same as a quiet remote location that has only one or two movements per hour. When H&I management realise the penalties of such draconian rules and start to negotiate special exemptions from inappropriate application then there will be light at the end of the tunnel. Inverness should be the crown jewel but instead it is starved of proper resources. You can't run a major regional airport on a shoestring budget that also has to support money-hungry remote airfields that operate to provide grossly uneconomical social needs.
Perhaps there is an argument for a Scottish CAA as part of the Scottish Parliament that is far more in tune with reality.
At one location you seem to have controllers that work busy Approach procedural [in my view the most demanding of all ATC disciplines] and at another location you have one controller who works the one inbound and takes a relief break to allow the second controller to work the one outbound.
Time to get political!
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Inverness Radar
I have been following this thread with interest as I am amongst those in HIAL (or HI!) who are either actively seeking alternative employment or desperately trying to ride out the 'storm' by keeping our heads below the firing line.
We all know that the Bus Conductor Bully, his Employment Law 'bending' Queen and Monty Python Sqdn Leader have utilised every underhand tactic in the book to get what THEY want. Then the BCB's Spin Doctor creates a gloriously fictious piece of blurb for the press, telling all and sundry about BCB's fantastic progress. Omitted from this blurb is the fact that BCB's apparant success has come at the cost of many well respected and experienced people being driven out of the company and many of HIALs assets being left to rot around the patch.
In his short reign, The Almighty BCB has single handedly managed to alienate himself from anyone (and everyone) who has an ounce of credibility in the Aviaiton world...to name but a few he has off ....NATS, the CAA SRG Lead Inspector, various influential Scottish Exec members, the Unions, the HI Chairman and Board, DfT Security and last but not least, 99.9% of HI staff!
The INV Radar Project is yet another example of BCB's ineptness and inability to actually listen to those who know better. So take heart HD from what I hear, I don't think it will be too long before we see a VN for the Managing Director's post?
Come back Cpt Bob?????
F777
who are either actively seeking alternative employment or desperately trying to ride out the 'storm' by keeping our heads below the firing line. We all know that the Bus Conductor Bully, his Employment Law 'bending' Queen and Monty Python Sqdn Leader have utilised every underhand tactic in the book to get what THEY want. Then the BCB's Spin Doctor creates a gloriously fictious piece of blurb for the press, telling all and sundry about BCB's fantastic progress. Omitted from this blurb is the fact that BCB's apparant success has come at the cost of many well respected and experienced people being driven out of the company and many of HIALs assets being left to rot around the patch.
In his short reign, The Almighty BCB has single handedly managed to alienate himself from anyone (and everyone) who has an ounce of credibility in the Aviaiton world...to name but a few he has
off ....NATS, the CAA SRG Lead Inspector, various influential Scottish Exec members, the Unions, the HI Chairman and Board, DfT Security and last but not least, 99.9% of HI staff! The INV Radar Project is yet another example of BCB's ineptness and inability to actually listen to those who know better. So take heart HD from what I hear, I don't think it will be too long before we see a VN for the Managing Director's post?
Come back Cpt Bob????? F777
Last edited by falcon777; 22nd Sep 2006 at 13:41.