Manch. transfer to Scottish
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Manch. transfer to Scottish
Just wondering how many staff are actually planning to move North to EGPX from Manch. in 2008/09, assuming NPC is open........
Will most go south or elsewhere ?
Will most go south or elsewhere ?
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In summary.....
Many going or gone already to NavCanada including a good few very experienced and highly valued ATCOs.
The rest of us were told last week, almost as directly as this, that the choice is to either go to Scotland - or resign. Simple really and not much opportunity to go south then or now, as those that have tried or are trying to transfer out, will tell you.
There are a few souls around who will go wherever the company sees fit, some begrudgingly - some readily, but not many at all.
So as for how many staff are actually planning for a move up north I'd say not a lot, in truth.
Many going or gone already to NavCanada including a good few very experienced and highly valued ATCOs.
The rest of us were told last week, almost as directly as this, that the choice is to either go to Scotland - or resign. Simple really and not much opportunity to go south then or now, as those that have tried or are trying to transfer out, will tell you.
There are a few souls around who will go wherever the company sees fit, some begrudgingly - some readily, but not many at all.
So as for how many staff are actually planning for a move up north I'd say not a lot, in truth.
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What pains me is that it all seems to be for the sake of politics. It makes no business sense at all to force a group of people to live in Scotland. Scotland for me is a nice place - to visit. If I was forced to move there I would resign - no question!
Worse than that the original plan was to transfer MACC to Swanwick - makes a lot more sense to almost everyone except NATS 'management'.
Worse than that the original plan was to transfer MACC to Swanwick - makes a lot more sense to almost everyone except NATS 'management'.
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I think the attitudes of the higher management echelons within NATS don't exactly lend themselves to winning hearts and minds over the matter either. All this "you're with us or you're out" bravado doesn't seem to take into account the dreadful situation some staff are in over the move - with wives and families completely unable or wholly unwilling to move.
One wonders what say the French controllers would do in such a situation........
One wonders what say the French controllers would do in such a situation........
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I've heard that many of the ATCO's at Manchester are retraining in other disciplines, such as tradesmen, Don't know if this is true, but they now can earn the same salary as an electrician, plumber etc. rather than move to Scotland with wife and family settled. What do you think?
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3 more good chaps off to Canada early next year and about 8 or 9 more making an initial visit at around the same time I believe, in the hope that NC might unfreeze this unofficial ban I've heard about.
Not sure how many have gone already. I can think off the top of my head of about 5 or 6 I think......
ILS 119.5
I know of only one - certainly not the "many" you suggest
And I think with a lot of people, salary isn't really coming into the equation.
Not sure how many have gone already. I can think off the top of my head of about 5 or 6 I think......
ILS 119.5
I know of only one - certainly not the "many" you suggest
And I think with a lot of people, salary isn't really coming into the equation.
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I've got every sympathy with your plight as if I were based at Manchester, I would certainly prefer a move south than one up here. Even better would be staying put.
However, one thing puzzles me about the much emphasized moves to Canada - why, if uprooting a couple of hundred miles north to do the same job with some shiny new equipment is such an upheval, are people moving 3-6000 miles to learn a completely different way of doing things? Much more of an upheval, surely? Could it just be an excuse and those people would have moved to Canada anyway?
However, one thing puzzles me about the much emphasized moves to Canada - why, if uprooting a couple of hundred miles north to do the same job with some shiny new equipment is such an upheval, are people moving 3-6000 miles to learn a completely different way of doing things? Much more of an upheval, surely? Could it just be an excuse and those people would have moved to Canada anyway?
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Question. Why is it so bad to move from Manch. (I take this is Manchester) to Scotland?
For an Aussie this equates with moving from Cairns to Townsville. Work function still the same. In Oz, we've had similar consolidation of ATC units, and it's generally move or take VR (voluntary redundancy).
Sorry. but you guys sound just a tiny bit whingy here.
For an Aussie this equates with moving from Cairns to Townsville. Work function still the same. In Oz, we've had similar consolidation of ATC units, and it's generally move or take VR (voluntary redundancy).
Sorry. but you guys sound just a tiny bit whingy here.
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DP, you're probably going to get some interesting responses to this. It's not quite as simple as a move from Cairns or Townsville to Bris-vegas, as they're still in the same state in the same country (Infact, if I lived in Townsville, I'd be happy to move to Brisbane 
).
Prestwick isn't exactly a thriving metropolis, especially when compared to Manchester. And there have been stories (truth to them=???, I'll leave that to those more in the know) of English families who have moved there and haven't exactly been welcomed by the locals (I heard one story of a controller's kid who had the crap beaten out of him on a bus).
The reason I ask what reports are getting back to NATS guys and gals about Canada is that having made the move (Ok, it's my second ), that it is a major event. Here in the 'Peg winter is really starting to hit (just looking at the METAR and it's MINUS 29 C, and including windchill it MINUS 36!!!). Edmonton is 1 above freezing with wind gusts up to 35 kts. There are some major domestic issues (bank accounts, credit history for a motgage, car insurance, drivers licencing) that can cause some minor headaches. Then there's the issue of training (not quite from scratch, but it is different), as well as starting from the bottom of the pile again (the seniority system can take a bit of getting used to). Nav Can are also begining to move towards their new CAATS system (similar to NERC), so depending upon when people arrive, they may train on the current system and find themselves retraining on new kit in the not too distant future.
Don't get me wrong, the money is good, the lifestyle is great (aside from the mozzies in summer), and the locals are very friendly and supportive (the manager of the school here in Winnipeg is a very switched on guy). And I'm going to have my first white Christmas ever (no BBQ though, eh DP). I'm just interested in what has filtered back from other sources.
).Prestwick isn't exactly a thriving metropolis, especially when compared to Manchester. And there have been stories (truth to them=???, I'll leave that to those more in the know) of English families who have moved there and haven't exactly been welcomed by the locals (I heard one story of a controller's kid who had the crap beaten out of him on a bus).
The reason I ask what reports are getting back to NATS guys and gals about Canada is that having made the move (Ok, it's my second
), that it is a major event. Here in the 'Peg winter is really starting to hit (just looking at the METAR and it's MINUS 29 C, and including windchill it MINUS 36!!!). Edmonton is 1 above freezing with wind gusts up to 35 kts. There are some major domestic issues (bank accounts, credit history for a motgage, car insurance, drivers licencing) that can cause some minor headaches. Then there's the issue of training (not quite from scratch, but it is different), as well as starting from the bottom of the pile again (the seniority system can take a bit of getting used to). Nav Can are also begining to move towards their new CAATS system (similar to NERC), so depending upon when people arrive, they may train on the current system and find themselves retraining on new kit in the not too distant future.Don't get me wrong, the money is good, the lifestyle is great (aside from the mozzies in summer), and the locals are very friendly and supportive (the manager of the school here in Winnipeg is a very switched on guy). And I'm going to have my first white Christmas ever (no BBQ though, eh DP). I'm just interested in what has filtered back from other sources.
Last edited by Jerricho; 19th Dec 2004 at 09:05.
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I have been trying to sit on the sidelines of this however I must feel I should put in my tuppence worth.
First of all I wish to ignore the way HR have handled th move.I am sorry what has come about but Manch you are moving to Prestwick get used to it!!!
I am a Scot married to an English girl ( oh the shame JOKE!!! ) and I have several English ATC friends.
I had no affinity with Prestwick ( I wanted to go to Gatwick for my posting twenty five years ago ) so it was a bit of a shock for me when I got a posting to th Centre.
I have heard kids getting "beaten "up for being tall/small/left handed/left footed etc just because your kid is English does not make him/her special.
As in everywhere else ( Manch ,Aus,Canada) it all comes down to Location,Location ,Location.There are some very nice big houses in "rundown areas" and if you are stupid enough/naive enough to buy a property in one of them well look out.
As for nightlife well I do not get out much being a family man but some of the "kids" on the watch seem to have a reasonable social life in Prestwick and there is always Glasgow up the road.
For pastimes for the kids there are football,hockey,basketball,rugby,karate,judo,swimming,
gymnastics.taekwando,dancing,ballet and two cricket clubs!!!
I have had one move in my ATC career and where I went made
Prestwick seem like a metropolis.If you come to Prestwick with an open mind I think you will be presently surprised.
Be warned the local Ayrshire accent is a bit broad ( it is not corrupt English its origins are "Auld Scots" ) so your'e child wille become bi-lingual : playground speak and home speak
It will not be a bed of roses but most people will try and make you very welcome.
Rant/PR over
AyrTC
ps if any one from Manch wants to pm me about any Prestwick social/family questions feel free to do so.
First of all I wish to ignore the way HR have handled th move.I am sorry what has come about but Manch you are moving to Prestwick get used to it!!!
I am a Scot married to an English girl ( oh the shame JOKE!!! ) and I have several English ATC friends.
I had no affinity with Prestwick ( I wanted to go to Gatwick for my posting twenty five years ago ) so it was a bit of a shock for me when I got a posting to th Centre.
I have heard kids getting "beaten "up for being tall/small/left handed/left footed
etc just because your kid is English does not make him/her special.As in everywhere else ( Manch ,Aus,Canada) it all comes down to Location,Location ,Location.There are some very nice big houses in "rundown areas" and if you are stupid enough/naive enough to buy a property in one of them well look out.
As for nightlife well I do not get out much being a family man but some of the "kids" on the watch seem to have a reasonable social life in Prestwick and there is always Glasgow up the road.
For pastimes for the kids there are football,hockey,basketball,rugby,karate,judo,swimming,
gymnastics.taekwando,dancing,ballet and two cricket clubs!!!
I have had one move in my ATC career and where I went made
Prestwick seem like a metropolis.If you come to Prestwick with an open mind I think you will be presently surprised.
Be warned the local Ayrshire accent is a bit broad ( it is not corrupt English its origins are "Auld Scots" ) so your'e child wille become bi-lingual : playground speak and home speak
It will not be a bed of roses but most people will try and make you very welcome.
Rant/PR over
AyrTC
ps if any one from Manch wants to pm me about any Prestwick social/family questions feel free to do so.
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NATS politics and management
I'm not acquainted with NATS management style yet so can't comment about how abrupt perhaps they have been.
I can though comment on Prestwick and Ayr. I live in Glasgow, I have lived in Manchester. I liked Manchester but I think Glasgow is a bigger, bustlier city where more goes on. I'm not just being bias as a Scot.
If the Manc controllers want the city life they won't be disappointed by Glasgow(second best place to shop in the UK after London)
As for Prestwick. I was on a date at Elliots in Prestwick last night. The place was jumping. Prestwick is an affluent town. Ayr is a nice town too. As I Glaswegian I find Ayrshire folk are a bit different generalism being they are quite parochial. (I was brought up in Ayrshire) But I find that when I'm in smaller towns in England (Bournemouth, Southampton etc)
I have colleagues at the moment who work with me in the city centre but choose to live down there(35 mins drive away). It's not that bad.
I know it must be hard to have change forced on you. Is that not sort of part of this job though.
I can though comment on Prestwick and Ayr. I live in Glasgow, I have lived in Manchester. I liked Manchester but I think Glasgow is a bigger, bustlier city where more goes on. I'm not just being bias as a Scot.
If the Manc controllers want the city life they won't be disappointed by Glasgow(second best place to shop in the UK after London)
As for Prestwick. I was on a date at Elliots in Prestwick last night. The place was jumping. Prestwick is an affluent town. Ayr is a nice town too. As I Glaswegian I find Ayrshire folk are a bit different generalism being they are quite parochial. (I was brought up in Ayrshire) But I find that when I'm in smaller towns in England (Bournemouth, Southampton etc)
I have colleagues at the moment who work with me in the city centre but choose to live down there(35 mins drive away). It's not that bad.
I know it must be hard to have change forced on you. Is that not sort of part of this job though.
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choices
Maybe to add a llitle bit more information to this thread or even to open a few eyes; Originally Manch were told they were going south. Then not...eventually. At our meeting with our illustrious new leader we were informed that Manch was going north, no arguments...ok
We were also however told that as he was aware of the multitude of problems this caused staff he would endeavour in any ways possible to lessen the impact of the closure. This being to help staff if they wanted to re-locate or even leave the company." To give them as much assistance in making their choices and offering as much help and assistance with the result of those decisions" Bloody nice chap.
To throw a spanner into the works then..
Firstly, our decision is to relocate to a southern centre...sorry chaps-either move north or leave the company.
Secondly(and the most ridiculous), EGCC will in the next few months issue a VN for VCR/APPROACH ATCO's. I believe it may be for 5 of them. I know of an ATCO on a certain pink watch at MACC who until recently was valid on VCR/APP and AREA. An OJTI on all three and I think an LCE also. Because of the new hours required in each of the positions, she/he signed over the competency for TWR/APP. She/he has applied in writing to return to the undermanned TWR/APP side of MACC. No response. I believe the new VN will state that AREA ATCOs are ineligible to apply. Probably the old chestnut of 'can't be released'. So an ATCO with an established family and lots of current experience who has trained most of the young TWR/APP ATCO's on pink watch will be leaving us to join a non NATS unit ( I believe a promising approach(!) has been made to one already) in order to keep family together (who can't move out of the country).
Is this helping staff and assisting them in their choices? Is this not absolutely non-sensical?
It is this very 'non-helpful, non-flexible' attitude that is exasperating us. Unbelievable.
Apologies to she/he for speaking out of turn but we used to all watch out for each other here. Sorry to be losing you.
We were also however told that as he was aware of the multitude of problems this caused staff he would endeavour in any ways possible to lessen the impact of the closure. This being to help staff if they wanted to re-locate or even leave the company." To give them as much assistance in making their choices and offering as much help and assistance with the result of those decisions" Bloody nice chap.
To throw a spanner into the works then..
Firstly, our decision is to relocate to a southern centre...sorry chaps-either move north or leave the company.
Secondly(and the most ridiculous), EGCC will in the next few months issue a VN for VCR/APPROACH ATCO's. I believe it may be for 5 of them. I know of an ATCO on a certain pink watch at MACC who until recently was valid on VCR/APP and AREA. An OJTI on all three and I think an LCE also. Because of the new hours required in each of the positions, she/he signed over the competency for TWR/APP. She/he has applied in writing to return to the undermanned TWR/APP side of MACC. No response. I believe the new VN will state that AREA ATCOs are ineligible to apply. Probably the old chestnut of 'can't be released'. So an ATCO with an established family and lots of current experience who has trained most of the young TWR/APP ATCO's on pink watch will be leaving us to join a non NATS unit ( I believe a promising approach(!) has been made to one already) in order to keep family together (who can't move out of the country).
Is this helping staff and assisting them in their choices? Is this not absolutely non-sensical?
It is this very 'non-helpful, non-flexible' attitude that is exasperating us. Unbelievable.
Apologies to she/he for speaking out of turn but we used to all watch out for each other here. Sorry to be losing you.