Manch. transfer to Scottish
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Just for DC10 alleged Real Man's pipe.
The thread is about MACC moving, ie all grades.
NERC was supposed to be ATSA free, never happened.
MACC is supposed to be too, can't see I happening.
We've all been overwhelmed by DC10s sympathy here at MACC, the ATCOs and ATSAs at MACC are a pretty tight bunch, we're all in it together, expect very little from our LACC brethren, and look forward to his transfer request one day being pulled out the bin.
Might I suggest that he and those with nothing useful to add to this thread, get back to NERC and concentrate on palming off their busy sectors to MACC, one by one, then continue to complain they dont get paid enough for doing less.
S7, S3, S4, and S5, bring em all on lads, dont want you poor babies working too hard in between early gos and late come ins.
TC have the honour of taking some airspace of LACC every year too.
As do ScaCC.
Old rope...money for
Hap hap happy New year, colleagues
The thread is about MACC moving, ie all grades.
NERC was supposed to be ATSA free, never happened.
MACC is supposed to be too, can't see I happening.
We've all been overwhelmed by DC10s sympathy here at MACC, the ATCOs and ATSAs at MACC are a pretty tight bunch, we're all in it together, expect very little from our LACC brethren, and look forward to his transfer request one day being pulled out the bin.
Might I suggest that he and those with nothing useful to add to this thread, get back to NERC and concentrate on palming off their busy sectors to MACC, one by one, then continue to complain they dont get paid enough for doing less.
S7, S3, S4, and S5, bring em all on lads, dont want you poor babies working too hard in between early gos and late come ins.
TC have the honour of taking some airspace of LACC every year too.
As do ScaCC.
Old rope...money for
Hap hap happy New year, colleagues
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Shermanator
“..the ATCOs and ATSAs at MACC are a pretty tight bunch, we're all in it together..”
I am not sure that you really, truly are "in it together" as you put it. The ATCOs have jobs to go to - the ATSAs don't.
Sorry, but that's how it looks from down here.
“..the ATCOs and ATSAs at MACC are a pretty tight bunch, we're all in it together..”
I am not sure that you really, truly are "in it together" as you put it. The ATCOs have jobs to go to - the ATSAs don't.
Sorry, but that's how it looks from down here.
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I don't think anyone can say that "the ATSAs don't have jobs to go to" until everything is signed, sealed and perhaps more importantly, delivered.
The ATSAs have heard it all before with the move to LACC (aka the first ATSA-less environment. Yes. Of course it is).
I agree with Shermanator (Just for a change!). There is a real feeling of togetherness for those that will be left at MACC once the emigrations have ceased.
The ATSAs have heard it all before with the move to LACC (aka the first ATSA-less environment. Yes. Of course it is).
I agree with Shermanator (Just for a change!). There is a real feeling of togetherness for those that will be left at MACC once the emigrations have ceased.
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Niteflite,
I sincerely hope that you are able to achieve a happy outcome to the situation. I think that we here at LL will eventually come under pressure jobwise once the new VCR is up and running. That's why we're watching CC developments closely. In order to keep our jobs here, we will have to argue the case for ATSA retention in advance of any move to oust us, and you will have to do that too if you want the maximum number of ATSA jobs in Scottish for those that are prepared to transfer North.
Finally, I would respectfully add/suggest that, when push finally comes to shove, you should not expect any official assistance from the ATCOs in order to save ATSA jobs. All ATSAs within NATS should know by now that we're on our own.
I sincerely hope that you are able to achieve a happy outcome to the situation. I think that we here at LL will eventually come under pressure jobwise once the new VCR is up and running. That's why we're watching CC developments closely. In order to keep our jobs here, we will have to argue the case for ATSA retention in advance of any move to oust us, and you will have to do that too if you want the maximum number of ATSA jobs in Scottish for those that are prepared to transfer North.
Finally, I would respectfully add/suggest that, when push finally comes to shove, you should not expect any official assistance from the ATCOs in order to save ATSA jobs. All ATSAs within NATS should know by now that we're on our own.
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And how nice it is of your union (PCS) to violently oppose the, possibly job saving transferal of some basic ATCO duties to PCS grades once the push comes to shove.
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Not sure of what basic ATCO duties you refer to, but maybe PCS' standpoint is based in part on Prospect's point-blank refusal a couple of years ago to even consider the possibility of giving a basic ATCO duty at LL to the ATSA4 grade. This was backed up by a GATCO member stating in the LL VCR that "ATSAs will never do ATCO jobs here - the pilots expect a professional service"
Plenty of witnesses to this one!
Plenty of witnesses to this one!
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Happy New Year
Thanks for all the interesting replies to my inital post >
"Manch. transfer to Scottish "
Happy New Year and good luck.
ps
Its only a posting to another unit, spare a thought for those less fortunate!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4136545.stm
"Manch. transfer to Scottish "
Happy New Year and good luck.
ps
Its only a posting to another unit, spare a thought for those less fortunate!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4136545.stm
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A most interesting thread this one.
Interestingly, MACC has existed, in one form another, for 30 years come the end of January 2005 when the old Preston ATCC and the Preston Air Traffic Control Radar Unit closed. During that time it has actually grown from being a mere "Sub Centre" of West Drayton to a considerable operation extending into the Upper Airspace etc. It seems that MACC has been very useful to NATS as it has shifted various sectors around in order to assist with getting Swanwick on-line etc.
The idea of closing MACC and transferring its functions is certainly not new. Several years ago NATS came up with the TWO centre strategy. Technically, there could be just one for the whole UK but there is considerable force in the "don't have all your eggs in one basket" thinking. No doubt, the second centre has to be in Scotland for entirely political reasons. Such reasons are totally unconnected with the provision of ATC though it is interesting to note that some of the NATS Senior Management were Scottish at the time the 2 centre strategy evolved. However this may be, there is certainly no good business sense in maintaining 3 ACCs in the U.K. and it has to be recognised that the entire European strategy is to reduce considerably the number of ACCs from 40 odd to a mere handful.
With the greatest respect to some contributors, what has happened or will happen in Australia does not seem particularly relevant. The MACC staff are faced with either loss of jobs (which seems to apply to ATSAs mainly) or a transfer further north. Hopefully, there will be some ATSA jobs but without knowing the detail it is not possible to say. ATCO jobs appear to be OK.
The saddest thing to appear on this thread is the lack of interest being apparently shown by management in getting the staff more in favour of this major change in their lives. If this lack of interest is true then it is high time the NATS management woke up and addressed this issue properly. Also, it will not help the management cause if the MACC staff see this move as a "take-over" rather than a "merger." There is a world of difference between the two. Currently, the 2 ACCs do operate ATC rather differently and it is obvious that this needs to be addressed as part of the issue.
Similarly, the MACC staff are going to have to recognise the hard business / European reality and begin to positively address the move by getting properly involved and seeking to get the best out of this that they can.
Happy New Year - and I really hope that you can start to get this mess sorted!!
Interestingly, MACC has existed, in one form another, for 30 years come the end of January 2005 when the old Preston ATCC and the Preston Air Traffic Control Radar Unit closed. During that time it has actually grown from being a mere "Sub Centre" of West Drayton to a considerable operation extending into the Upper Airspace etc. It seems that MACC has been very useful to NATS as it has shifted various sectors around in order to assist with getting Swanwick on-line etc.
The idea of closing MACC and transferring its functions is certainly not new. Several years ago NATS came up with the TWO centre strategy. Technically, there could be just one for the whole UK but there is considerable force in the "don't have all your eggs in one basket" thinking. No doubt, the second centre has to be in Scotland for entirely political reasons. Such reasons are totally unconnected with the provision of ATC though it is interesting to note that some of the NATS Senior Management were Scottish at the time the 2 centre strategy evolved. However this may be, there is certainly no good business sense in maintaining 3 ACCs in the U.K. and it has to be recognised that the entire European strategy is to reduce considerably the number of ACCs from 40 odd to a mere handful.
With the greatest respect to some contributors, what has happened or will happen in Australia does not seem particularly relevant. The MACC staff are faced with either loss of jobs (which seems to apply to ATSAs mainly) or a transfer further north. Hopefully, there will be some ATSA jobs but without knowing the detail it is not possible to say. ATCO jobs appear to be OK.
The saddest thing to appear on this thread is the lack of interest being apparently shown by management in getting the staff more in favour of this major change in their lives. If this lack of interest is true then it is high time the NATS management woke up and addressed this issue properly. Also, it will not help the management cause if the MACC staff see this move as a "take-over" rather than a "merger." There is a world of difference between the two. Currently, the 2 ACCs do operate ATC rather differently and it is obvious that this needs to be addressed as part of the issue.
Similarly, the MACC staff are going to have to recognise the hard business / European reality and begin to positively address the move by getting properly involved and seeking to get the best out of this that they can.
Happy New Year - and I really hope that you can start to get this mess sorted!!
I certainly feel for you folks at MACC. I just hope that there are some there who can wave a cheery goodbye in the form of taking early retirement.
That'll show the b*ggers not to take their staff for granted - the very same staff that have DUG managament out of the various holes they have dug so deeply over the past years !
And, it seems, that they are bringing in deep tunneling equipment to continue their on their merry way
That'll show the b*ggers not to take their staff for granted - the very same staff that have DUG managament out of the various holes they have dug so deeply over the past years !
And, it seems, that they are bringing in deep tunneling equipment to continue their on their merry way
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PTAir
"Technically, there could be just one for the whole UK but there is considerable force in the "don't have all your eggs in one basket" thinking. No doubt, the second centre has to be in Scotland for entirely political reasons. Such reasons are totally unconnected with the provision of ATC though it is interesting to note that some of the NATS Senior Management were Scottish at the time the 2 centre strategy evolved".
Why the hell shouldn't it be in Scotland?..it's got as much right to have an en-route centre as ANY other part of the UK, I say again UK, that you care to mention!
It's this type of "we're doing you lot a favour by letting you have one" attitiude that gets right up the noses of us living and working here.
It seems that for a good many contributors to this thread, Scotland is only a separate country when it suits!
Rgds
T3
"Technically, there could be just one for the whole UK but there is considerable force in the "don't have all your eggs in one basket" thinking. No doubt, the second centre has to be in Scotland for entirely political reasons. Such reasons are totally unconnected with the provision of ATC though it is interesting to note that some of the NATS Senior Management were Scottish at the time the 2 centre strategy evolved".
Why the hell shouldn't it be in Scotland?..it's got as much right to have an en-route centre as ANY other part of the UK, I say again UK, that you care to mention!
It's this type of "we're doing you lot a favour by letting you have one" attitiude that gets right up the noses of us living and working here.
It seems that for a good many contributors to this thread, Scotland is only a separate country when it suits!
Rgds
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Fair point tug3. There is no reason why Scotland should not have one of the 2 centres. I still hope that they can get this sorted out soon. Bad morale is not a good thing.
