Bahrain and Serco
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Bahrain and Serco
Hi all,
This is one for the current Middle East controllers employed by Serco and others IN THE KNOW. A few colleagues of mine have been contacted recently by Real Time Consultants (RTC) to fill vacancies in the ME in the UAE and Bahrain, and they have been told that Serco are desperately short and cant get people, especially from the UK (for some reason, CAN ANYONE ENLIGHTEN ME RE THIS PROBLEM??) and are looking to those south of the equator.
Also, especially as Serco has never really had a problem getting people there (apparently up until now) and especially bahrain where they pay about 35% more than UAE and have a better gratuity?
would appreciate some input as a few of us are now very curious, is Serco having some sort of problems?
Looking forward to your input.
TTFN
PMS
This is one for the current Middle East controllers employed by Serco and others IN THE KNOW. A few colleagues of mine have been contacted recently by Real Time Consultants (RTC) to fill vacancies in the ME in the UAE and Bahrain, and they have been told that Serco are desperately short and cant get people, especially from the UK (for some reason, CAN ANYONE ENLIGHTEN ME RE THIS PROBLEM??) and are looking to those south of the equator.
Also, especially as Serco has never really had a problem getting people there (apparently up until now) and especially bahrain where they pay about 35% more than UAE and have a better gratuity?
would appreciate some input as a few of us are now very curious, is Serco having some sort of problems?
Looking forward to your input.
TTFN
PMS
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Interesting that its Serco behind the Real Time consultants ad. But at the end of the day it will still be the same package offered, and therein lies the problem.
The pay and particularly the benefits package is not as good as it used to be and when prospective people look closely it's putting them off. Only a few years ago you could go to Dubai, have a nice villa paid for by the company. Have 3 kids schooling paid for. A decent health insurance with little employee contribution and the full price of tickets home.
This has all changed. Now you have dig deep into your own pocket to make up the difference between the company accommodation allowance and the price of a decent villa. Particularly if you need to live near British curriculum schools. Only 2 kids schooling are paid for. Health insurance doesn't cover much and if you want to fly home in the summer the travel allowance isn't enough to buy you a ticket.
Hence fewer people wanting to go and more ads in flight in whatever disguise.
How long it's going to take before the company realise that if it doesn't bid the contracts high enough to give people decent benefits is anyones guess. But with fewer applicants and more people leaving sooner or later it will become unmanageable. If you don't have the people you don't have a contract. Benefits have been slowly eroded away over the last 5 or 6 years.
Shame really as it's a good place to be, but not at all costs.
Yes it has been easy to get people in the past , but that is certainly not the case now.
The pay and particularly the benefits package is not as good as it used to be and when prospective people look closely it's putting them off. Only a few years ago you could go to Dubai, have a nice villa paid for by the company. Have 3 kids schooling paid for. A decent health insurance with little employee contribution and the full price of tickets home.
This has all changed. Now you have dig deep into your own pocket to make up the difference between the company accommodation allowance and the price of a decent villa. Particularly if you need to live near British curriculum schools. Only 2 kids schooling are paid for. Health insurance doesn't cover much and if you want to fly home in the summer the travel allowance isn't enough to buy you a ticket.
Hence fewer people wanting to go and more ads in flight in whatever disguise.
How long it's going to take before the company realise that if it doesn't bid the contracts high enough to give people decent benefits is anyones guess. But with fewer applicants and more people leaving sooner or later it will become unmanageable. If you don't have the people you don't have a contract. Benefits have been slowly eroded away over the last 5 or 6 years.
Shame really as it's a good place to be, but not at all costs.
Yes it has been easy to get people in the past , but that is certainly not the case now.
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RD
I'm confused, are you currently working in Dubai? The housing allowance easily covers a decent villa in Dubai, flights out of the UAE are still well within the Serco allowance, the medical insurance covers wife and 2 kids and the schooling allowance is pretty good compared to what other companies get (I'm comparing school allowance only when it comes to other companies) and generous leave. I can't believe for one minute that conditions in Dubai are that bad.
Abu Dhabi is slightly less well off as we are told they are different contracts but that does not detract from the quality of life one has here. I do agree, Serco are going to have to pull their socks up and lower their profit margins if they want to stay in the game. CV's are in short supply.
PMS
Sorry, unable to enlighten you. First I have heard of it. No rumours doing the rounds here. Is this perhaps a fact finding mission? If it is facts you want then, yes Serco is having a problem, which is progressively getting worse due to the inability and lack of commitment by the managers. One wonders what the customers will say?
Cheers
I'm confused, are you currently working in Dubai? The housing allowance easily covers a decent villa in Dubai, flights out of the UAE are still well within the Serco allowance, the medical insurance covers wife and 2 kids and the schooling allowance is pretty good compared to what other companies get (I'm comparing school allowance only when it comes to other companies) and generous leave. I can't believe for one minute that conditions in Dubai are that bad.
Abu Dhabi is slightly less well off as we are told they are different contracts but that does not detract from the quality of life one has here. I do agree, Serco are going to have to pull their socks up and lower their profit margins if they want to stay in the game. CV's are in short supply.
PMS
Sorry, unable to enlighten you. First I have heard of it. No rumours doing the rounds here. Is this perhaps a fact finding mission? If it is facts you want then, yes Serco is having a problem, which is progressively getting worse due to the inability and lack of commitment by the managers. One wonders what the customers will say?
Cheers
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Radar Pete
No I'm not currently in Dubai but used to work there. The writing was on the wall regarding benefits when I was there. Chipping away a little here and there.
The housing allowance may get you a decent villa but probably in Mirdiff. Not much use if you have kids that need to go to a school in Jumeirah/Umm Sequiem.
Your right the health insurance does cover wife and 2 kids, but how much do you pay every time you go and see a doc? It never used to be like that. You could claim just about anything back.
As you say conditions aren't THAT bad in Dubai compared to Abu Dhabi, but my point is that it aint what it used to be. For single people thiinking about going out it's probably fine but if you've got kids then all these little problems add up and sooner or later you're wondering whether you'll actually be better off.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to go back and if they improve the package then I'll certainly do so.
No I'm not currently in Dubai but used to work there. The writing was on the wall regarding benefits when I was there. Chipping away a little here and there.
The housing allowance may get you a decent villa but probably in Mirdiff. Not much use if you have kids that need to go to a school in Jumeirah/Umm Sequiem.
Your right the health insurance does cover wife and 2 kids, but how much do you pay every time you go and see a doc? It never used to be like that. You could claim just about anything back.
As you say conditions aren't THAT bad in Dubai compared to Abu Dhabi, but my point is that it aint what it used to be. For single people thiinking about going out it's probably fine but if you've got kids then all these little problems add up and sooner or later you're wondering whether you'll actually be better off.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to go back and if they improve the package then I'll certainly do so.
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Couldn't really let this one slide...
Just some of the reasons Serco can't get people;
1. The pay is crap. Being USD based it is not viable for most people, compared to their home wage. Certainly not if you earn Pounds or Euro. Even the Rand looks better (watch this space)
You certainly wouldn't move out here to get it, and many of those here are looking at leaving.
2. The stealth-erosion of conditions is biting. As the pay drops, these little side issues become more apparent. Things like the medical cover- sure they provide it, but every year it covers less and the 'deductable' gets bigger. The roster has been modified over the years to squeak more work days/stand-by's (48 hours continuous stand-by, mind you).
3. Outright lies are told to people to get them here, then when the manager renegs, wonders why staff resign. Complex webs of 'different contract' rules abound. Lies are told to people to keep them here a little longer.
4. It's getting busier at a phenominal rate, and the atmosphere is less than supportive. Arse-covering is an art form. The culture of fear can wear you down, over time.
5. Those who actually do the work are the most shoddily treated. I know it's a common complaint in this field- but it has to be seen to be believed here.
6. The recent slowdown in airline growth has turned around, and as the traffic picks up around the world, opportunities are arising that just weren't there 2 years ago. People are now voting with their feet. 'Managers' aren't exactly proactive here, so it takes a while before crisis management kicks in and issues are
addressed.
I'm sure I've missed things.
1. The pay is crap. Being USD based it is not viable for most people, compared to their home wage. Certainly not if you earn Pounds or Euro. Even the Rand looks better (watch this space)
You certainly wouldn't move out here to get it, and many of those here are looking at leaving.2. The stealth-erosion of conditions is biting. As the pay drops, these little side issues become more apparent. Things like the medical cover- sure they provide it, but every year it covers less and the 'deductable' gets bigger. The roster has been modified over the years to squeak more work days/stand-by's (48 hours continuous stand-by, mind you).
3. Outright lies are told to people to get them here, then when the manager renegs, wonders why staff resign. Complex webs of 'different contract' rules abound. Lies are told to people to keep them here a little longer.
4. It's getting busier at a phenominal rate, and the atmosphere is less than supportive. Arse-covering is an art form. The culture of fear can wear you down, over time.
5. Those who actually do the work are the most shoddily treated. I know it's a common complaint in this field- but it has to be seen to be believed here.
6. The recent slowdown in airline growth has turned around, and as the traffic picks up around the world, opportunities are arising that just weren't there 2 years ago. People are now voting with their feet. 'Managers' aren't exactly proactive here, so it takes a while before crisis management kicks in and issues are
addressed.
I'm sure I've missed things.
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PMS,
Another factor as far as UK NATS controllers are concerned is Pay and Pension.The latest pay increases even for the lower paid controllers makes people think very hard about the Gulf.The other factor is the NATS/CAA pension which is pretty good with loss of licence etc.You're basically are on your own with Serco Middle East as far as that is concerned.
The exchange rate at the moment is bad for US dollar against sterling which ain't helping.Another possible factor is that NATS has an increasing number of single validated controllers,especially in the London area who might not qualify for the DCA requirement of 5 years TWR and APP radar.I think it's still 4 years Area,but those guys at SCOACC and LACC are on pretty good money now compared to the Gulf so are not inclined to change.
The Abu Dhabi roster doesn't even sound UK legal as there is not enough time off between shifts.
All in all there is shortage of controllers and Serco doesn't offer any real advantage as an overall package.There will always be some who want to go for their own reasons,but if they are waiting for a great NATS exedious then don't hold your breath.
Another factor as far as UK NATS controllers are concerned is Pay and Pension.The latest pay increases even for the lower paid controllers makes people think very hard about the Gulf.The other factor is the NATS/CAA pension which is pretty good with loss of licence etc.You're basically are on your own with Serco Middle East as far as that is concerned.
The exchange rate at the moment is bad for US dollar against sterling which ain't helping.Another possible factor is that NATS has an increasing number of single validated controllers,especially in the London area who might not qualify for the DCA requirement of 5 years TWR and APP radar.I think it's still 4 years Area,but those guys at SCOACC and LACC are on pretty good money now compared to the Gulf so are not inclined to change.
The Abu Dhabi roster doesn't even sound UK legal as there is not enough time off between shifts.
All in all there is shortage of controllers and Serco doesn't offer any real advantage as an overall package.There will always be some who want to go for their own reasons,but if they are waiting for a great NATS exedious then don't hold your breath.
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Thank you all for your input, sounds like nothing has changed over there over the last 6 years and if anything has denegrated somewhat, pity because I believe that the lifestyle is still OK (if you can stand the wailing of the mosques 5 times a day from sparrows fart to dinner time), like you say ASA over here are still as sh.tty as ever.
Guess we can all hope for something better to come up, which will probably never happen.
TTFN
Guess we can all hope for something better to come up, which will probably never happen.
TTFN
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Having only ever been on one Serco contract, and only been in this part of the world for just on 6 years, I can say that I have noticed a serious decline in the morale of the Serco ATC'er staff.
Seems that Serco are just trying to get as much money out of all the contracts that they can at the risk of the staff and the contracts.
Sometimes I think that ever since they tried to get the NATS thing, it went seriously downhill from there and the other ATC contract(ors) -ATC'ers- are paying for it.
In most cases, I think that Serco is no longer offering competative salaries to the ATC'er staff and recruitment will just get more difficult or the quality will just gt less.
Used to be that they looked after the Customer, The Shareholder and the Employees.. Now they just look after themselves.
Seems that Serco are just trying to get as much money out of all the contracts that they can at the risk of the staff and the contracts.
Sometimes I think that ever since they tried to get the NATS thing, it went seriously downhill from there and the other ATC contract(ors) -ATC'ers- are paying for it.
In most cases, I think that Serco is no longer offering competative salaries to the ATC'er staff and recruitment will just get more difficult or the quality will just gt less.
Used to be that they looked after the Customer, The Shareholder and the Employees.. Now they just look after themselves.
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As a matter of interest what's the going rate in Abu Dhabi or Dubai these days in Dirhams? Housing,ticketing,schooling allowances would be useful as well.
The Serco web site is a bit vague.Just curious.Not thinking of a second visit (yet).
The Serco web site is a bit vague.Just curious.Not thinking of a second visit (yet).
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Ok guys couldn't resist this any longer. Guys when did you last check prices in Dubai? You will find that most people do not take the housing allowance as cash because it just ain't worth it. Those that do have bought places here (with a substantial investment of their own money) or are couples who both recieve it and live together. The allowance for single/married couples is no where near enough to find a decent place in any of the nicer areas so you are condemned to living in Mirdif (under the approach), way out of town (anybody fancy Sheik Z Highway in a morning?) or adding there own money to the pot. Married with children get a better allowance but if they want to get on the Palm Springs compound (very nice villas) then they will be expected to pay extra for the privilige.
I've only seen one of the apartments in Abu Dhabi so I wouldn't dare to comment. If it so bad there why is it one of our controllers has announced he is leaving to join you?
In general I reiterate everyone elses posts, if you want a paid holiday for two years in the sunshine, with no chance to make any real money then come to serco in the sun. Otherwise stay away as their profit comes out of your pocket.
Ps. T A Dyce PM if you want some figures.
I've only seen one of the apartments in Abu Dhabi so I wouldn't dare to comment. If it so bad there why is it one of our controllers has announced he is leaving to join you?
In general I reiterate everyone elses posts, if you want a paid holiday for two years in the sunshine, with no chance to make any real money then come to serco in the sun. Otherwise stay away as their profit comes out of your pocket.
Ps. T A Dyce PM if you want some figures.
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On the Beach,
You'd make a good journo for the Sun or especially the SCMP.Shock ,Horror,Probe.Naw sorry to disappoint,just a puppy training allowance needed,but Serco ,Nats or CAD won't pay for that.
ANSA , Fly Through and Bob,
Thanks for the figures.Not much changed in 12 years:At least the sun shines
You'd make a good journo for the Sun or especially the SCMP.Shock ,Horror,Probe.Naw sorry to disappoint,just a puppy training allowance needed,but Serco ,Nats or CAD won't pay for that.
ANSA , Fly Through and Bob,
Thanks for the figures.Not much changed in 12 years:At least the sun shines
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Okay guys, first post here. I'm in Canada, where Nav Canada pays most ATC's just under $100,000 CAD. This is equal to about $75,000 USD or 272 000 Dhs. We then of course have income tax, no subsidized housing, sales taxes, a cold climate, and many unhappy people at Nav Canada.
That said, you're actual take home income for an IFR controller is somewhere around $60,000 CAD less sales tax on everything you buy (162 000 Dhs.) Now, considering that Dubai was about the greatest city I've been to (Although I still want to go to Brisbane) how is 250 000 Dhs not a good salary (including fuel allowance, salary and housing)? Last time I was in Dubai there was no income tax either, you get a beautiful climate, one of the worlds most progressive cities (although that is entirely backed by the Abu Dhabi government, we'll have to see how well Dubai sustains itself in 10 years when it's oil runs out), and a safe city.
Yes, I have kids. Would I be afraid to move to Dubai with them? Not at all. The lifestyle that we could enjoy there for the 250 000 Dhs annually would be far superior than the lifestyle we can enjoy here. It would take about $180,000 CAD annually here to live the same lifstyle. Let's just say no ATC's in Canada will make that for a while to come.
I'm just trying to really see the negative in the deal that Serco offers. Coming from Canada I can't see it. Although I don't really know what ATC's in the UK or Australia make. Can someone divulge some more info on this?
That said, you're actual take home income for an IFR controller is somewhere around $60,000 CAD less sales tax on everything you buy (162 000 Dhs.) Now, considering that Dubai was about the greatest city I've been to (Although I still want to go to Brisbane) how is 250 000 Dhs not a good salary (including fuel allowance, salary and housing)? Last time I was in Dubai there was no income tax either, you get a beautiful climate, one of the worlds most progressive cities (although that is entirely backed by the Abu Dhabi government, we'll have to see how well Dubai sustains itself in 10 years when it's oil runs out), and a safe city.
Yes, I have kids. Would I be afraid to move to Dubai with them? Not at all. The lifestyle that we could enjoy there for the 250 000 Dhs annually would be far superior than the lifestyle we can enjoy here. It would take about $180,000 CAD annually here to live the same lifstyle. Let's just say no ATC's in Canada will make that for a while to come.
I'm just trying to really see the negative in the deal that Serco offers. Coming from Canada I can't see it. Although I don't really know what ATC's in the UK or Australia make. Can someone divulge some more info on this?
