TUI airways-2

[MARKEYD]

Terrific news..... :rolleyes:

Sorry but I don’t think many of the UK airports that Sunwing operated from last summer will be jumping for joy , I doubt many of there “ delayed “ passengers will be either

[Richard Taylor]

Sorry but I don’t think many of the UK airports that Sunwing operated from last summer will be jumping for joy , I doubt many of there “ delayed “ passengers will be either
...hence my emoji... :rolleyes:

[SWBKCB]

Got to be better than very old SmartLynx / Freebird frames?

May be true of SmartLynx (depends which version!), but Freebirds fleet compares with the Sunwing 738's

And isn't the issue with Sunwing as much to do with crew as the a/c. Single a/c bases are always more vulnerable to disruption, but then you have the licenceing issues around Canadian a/c - smaller pool of replacements avaolable.

[pabely]

If a crew goes sick at Norwich running a A320 you have to reposition one of the spare 738s with full crew, not as easy as sending a taxi with just crew members or parts with an engineer who doesn't work on an Airbus routinely. I think one of the 320s ended up at Luton towards the end of the summer season last year because it was easiler to keep it going from there. Maybe they have learned and will keep any leased 320s at bigger bases where disruption can be managed better.

[NickBarnes]

If a crew goes sick at Norwich running a A320 you have to reposition one of the spare 738s with full crew, not as easy as sending a taxi with just crew members or parts with an engineer who doesn't work on an Airbus routinely. I think one of the 320s ended up at Luton towards the end of the summer season last year because it was easiler to keep it going from there. Maybe they have learned and will keep any leased 320s at bigger bases where disruption can be managed better.

Plus I do believe at NWI at least KLM engineering look after the sunwing b738 during the time they are based there

[samj]

TOM4532 from LGW-IBZ, is this booked a 787 or 321 for Summer 23? Does anyone know? Thanks in advance

[Matt995]

TOM4532 from LGW-IBZ, is this booked a 787 or 321 for Summer 23? Does anyone know? Thanks in advance

You never mentioned what date you are flying? TOM4532 seems to be a B738 in May & October, June-September, a B787 currently, subject to last minute changes.

[samj]

You never mentioned what date you are flying? TOM4532 seems to be a B738 in May & October, June-September, a B787 currently, subject to last minute changes.

Thank you. 30 June is my date.

[anthbower1234]

Could anyone by any chance create a 7 day view of the TUI flight programme at EMA?

[Matt995]

Thank you. 30 June is my date.

as per google flights:-

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1038x259/tui_1e7bf33ad090591748453e59e9a0b69a37ae42f1.png

[Matt995]

Could anyone by any chance create a 7 day view of the TUI flight programme at EMA?

trying searching their timetable:- https://www.tui.co.uk/flight/timetable

[samj]

as per google flights:-

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1038x259/tui_1e7bf33ad090591748453e59e9a0b69a37ae42f1.png
Thanks for that. I saw it was an A321 on another website on 30/06/23, which is why I came here to double check. I guess google flights is more reliable?

https://info.flightmapper.net/flight/TUI_Airways_TOM_4532?date=2023-6-30

This is where I saw it as an A321.

[WHBM]

trying searching their timetable:- https://www.tui.co.uk/flight/timetable
That's not a timetable, it's a hack of the reservation system, done by those who believe the only reason for looking is to buy tickets. It only works for one route, one way, at a time, and it seems doesn't show flights which are fully booked.

[davidjohnson6]

TUI's marketing is very sales driven and aims at keeping things simple to understand... many (but not all) of their customers do not fly regularly and struggle to follow the intricacies of air transport. It's why people often book package holidays - somebody else does the thinking for them.

One should not expect the same level of sophistication of the average TUI customer when looking at a TUI website as a person who spends hours with an OAG timetable

[SWBKCB]

That's not a timetable, it's a hack of the reservation system, done by those who believe the only reason for looking is to buy tickets. It only works for one route, one way, at a time, and it seems doesn't show flights which are fully booked.

​​​​​​​TUI's marketing is very sales driven

Which is sort of the objective. Why would an airline spend money providing anything else?

[davidjohnson6]

What I wrote earlier was the diplomatic version of my thoughts. Now for the more "direct" version.

Large numbers of TUI customers struggle to understand a timetable or otherwise find it difficult to comprehend. If TUI put out a timetable on their website with full information, plenty of TUI customers will get confused and upset, and then not make a booking or even complain. For mass market communication, finesse and subtlety is not the name of the game. Better that TUI keep things really simple and make their website the equivalent of words with no more than 2 syllables

[anthbower1234]

Just after a timetable thats all folks! Im aware of the flight check thing on website was hoping someone would have the programme as such on a daily basis.

[Yeehaw22]

Could anyone by any chance create a 7 day view of the TUI flight programme at EMA?

Too many to list but it's 4x738 & 1xA320 (for most of summer)

[Flightrider]

Just after a timetable thats all folks! Im aware of the flight check thing on website was hoping someone would have the programme as such on a daily basis.
Check your PMs.

[SWBKCB]

What I wrote earlier was the diplomatic version of my thoughts. Now for the more "direct" version.

Large numbers of TUI customers struggle to understand a timetable or otherwise find it difficult to comprehend. If TUI put out a timetable on their website with full information, plenty of TUI customers will get confused and upset, and then not make a booking or even complain. For mass market communication, finesse and subtlety is not the name of t he game. Better that TUI keep things really simple and make their website the equivalent of words with no more than 2 syllables

Have I stumbled into JetBlast?? :rolleyes:

[P330]

Looks like a couple of new 737-8Max have been acquired on lease.

https://aviationsourcenews.com/airline/griffin-global-announces-deal-for-2-737-8s-with-tui-group/

For info, not related to the above (I believe), G-TUMX was delivered in the last week.

[LGS6753]

Looks like a couple of new 737-8Max have been acquired on lease.
If you read the article, you will see that it is a buy-and-leaseback of two aircraft ordered by TUI.

[pabely]

TUI UK back on Marsa Alam route from W23, welcome back!
There longest 737 route?

[EZYPZY]

TUI UK back on Marsa Alam route from W23, welcome back!
There longest 737 route?

I would say one of the Cape Verde destinations would be slightly further than Marsa Alam, although I stand to be corrected.

[VickersVicount]

Boa Vista 2752nm vs 2500 Marsa Alam ex LGW

[rog747]

LGW and MAN to Banjul have been flown on the TUI 737-800, plus Enter Air flew this route too with theirs - I think the inbounds may have had a stop.

TUI airlines were flying 737-800 to BJL from Holland and Belgium, also from Bratislava, operated by Smartwings, once a week with 737-800,
and most of these operate via (SID) Espargos Sal Cape Verde on the inbound.

Most of these, have all now been taken over by the B737-Max 8 and still route via SID on the inbounds,
except to LGW and MAN which are non-stop, and to WAW is back via LIS.

[OltonPete]

May be true of SmartLynx (depends which version!), but Freebirds fleet compares with the Sunwing 738's

And isn't the issue with Sunwing as much to do with crew as the a/c. Single a/c bases are always more vulnerable to disruption, but then you have the licenceing issues around Canadian a/c - smaller pool of replacements avaolable.

Quoted the above as quite appropriate - BHX summer schedule seems to have changed and the Smartlynx A320 flights now appear to be 2 based Sunwing aircraft. I assume some major changes across the network are happening?

Only flown on Sunwing once and it was delayed out of Naples due weather at BHX, which was flat calm and 10K and a total coincidence the aircraft was met on arrival by engineers and a new tyre:rolleyes:

Pete

[SJL26779]

Sunwing to be based at Aberdeen, Birmingham East Midlands and Cardiff so far. Started seeing flight change notifications today. Will update once I have any more updates.

** UPDATE**

Norwich to get Sunwing again in S23 and as mentioned already Belfast too

[BFS BHD]

Any ideas what will be based at Belfast International. Thought it was meant to be Sunwing this year.

[mart901]

Any ideas what will be based at Belfast International. Thought it was meant to be Sunwing this year.

It's Sunwing

[BFS BHD]

It's Sunwing

Thanks

[GBYAJ]

Are there any plans to repaint the 737’s that fly in the old scheme before the summer? Noted TUKM and TAWY both at NCL last week looking a bit tired/ a flash back to 2013 and not on current brand!

[SWBKCB]

Tui is adding a further 150,000 additional seats for UK customers for winter 2023-24 to cater for increased demand for winter sun. Nine services have been added for the full winter season, including new flights to Boa Vista, Cape Verde, from Birmingham, and weekly flights to Sid, Cape Verde, from Glasgow, Birmingham and East Midlands. And a new weekly flight has been added to Sharm el Sheikh, Egypt, from Manchester, Gatwick and Newcastle.

In Egypt, it has also added 80,000 more seats for the winter season to Marsa Alam (https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/tui-expands-egypt-winter-sun-programme-with-marsa-alam-charters) from Gatwick and will launch a new Cardiff service to Sharm from Easter 2024. Hurghada will see new flights from Gatwick and Manchester from Easter 2024, following strong Easter bookings this year to the destination. In Tunisia, Tui is adding 15,000 extra seats with new flights to Enfidha from Bristol, Gatwick, Manchester and Birmingham, starting from Easter 2024. Morocco will be served by additional flights from Easter 2024 to provide 10 and 11-night durations to Agadir from Birmingham, and to Marrakesh from Birmingham and Bristol, both starting from Easter 2024.

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/tui-adds-150000-seats-to-make-winter-2023-24-biggest-ever

[RA85684]

Nice to see some expansion and I hope that TUI and Jet2 are able to continue to grow alongside each other. Particularly glad to see Sharm el Sheikh back and from NCL. This will be the first time in a long time that both HRG and SSH have been served from NCL simultaneously.

I do hope to see NCL-Morocco/Cape Verde at some point in the not too distant future

[OltonPete]

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/tui-adds-150000-seats-to-make-winter-2023-24-biggest-ever

Quote "weekly flights to Sid, Cape Verde, from Glasgow, Birmingham and East Midlands".

I assume a typo, they are not really saying BHX-SID is going to be reduced by 50% winter 23/24? BHX is twice weekly summer and winter and one service in winter remains as the 788 so not sure what they are saying here. Boa Vista part is correct it will be the first winter at 3 per week.

There winter 23/24 schedule from BHX is very impressive and shows shows a significant increase in seats to actually what operated this winter but alas it rarely turns out that way although this winter I have to say I am not sure that the adjustments on some routes was down to lack of passengers going by the loads and all frequencies bar one were restored this week.

Pete

[SWBKCB]

Cape Verde

Cape Verde has grown in popularity for British sun seekers since launching in 2005. With a further 45,000 seats added for this winter, customers can take advantage of the long sandy beaches, perfect temperatures and cultural spots off the west coast of Africa. TUI is adding a third weekly flight to Boa Vista from Birmingham, as well as weekly UK departures to Sal from Newcastle, Glasgow and East Midlands airport.

https://www.tui.co.uk/press/tui-launches-biggest-ever-winter-programme-with-150000-more-seats/

[pabely]

Are all these additions genuine new capacity or resumption of pre-covid levels?

[VickersVicount]

Cape verde in whatever guise comes and goes, it always has.

[P330]

This piece has been around now for a month or so.

Aside from the comments about the lack of a price war coming, for me the real interest is the strive for more dynamic packaging. This effectively means offering flights on 3rd party airlines and taking hotel slots when demand arises (as opposed to up front) and selling the combo as a TUI package. This has already started with a growing use of Easyjet for example, but it looks like this will be one of the ways TUI wants to grow in the UK.

https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/tui-v-jet2-how-tui-plans-to-regain-its-market-share---and-what-it-means-for-agents-38510

[Smudge's Lot]

This shows what happens if you misbehave on a long haul flight that flies over the USA....

https://www.justice.gov/usao-me/pr/british-nationals-sentenced-interference-flight-crew-assault-during-flight-diverted-bgr


Good riddance and good luck getting a holiday very soon....

[Cloud1]

This shows what happens if you misbehave on a long haul flight that flies over the USA....

https://www.justice.gov/usao-me/pr/british-nationals-sentenced-interference-flight-crew-assault-during-flight-diverted-bgr


Good riddance and good luck getting a holiday very soon....

Excellent news - thanks for sharing! This needs more publicity.

[anthbower1234]

Had a walk around EMA this morning and SmartLynx YL-LDU was being moved into hanger. Is this frame the muted summer based A320 for TUI?

[anthbower1234]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1800x1323/20230321_155504_72aa0094f4ad5b3be9fa0db0912d4026befcf277.jpg

[SJL26779]

Does anyone know the reason for todays Newcastle to Montego Bay diverting to Melbourne, Florida please?

[chuzwuza]

Anyone know what’s going on with TUI share price today?

[davidjohnson6]

Anyone know what’s going on with TUI share price today?
Would this have anything to do with the current raising of capital ? Existing shareholders lose out, but the debt to the German Govt is paid off, corporate debt is reduced, balance sheet will be more robust and the company as a whole should be in a better place

[toledoashley]

Yes, you are right - new shares issued, which has meant a devaluation/dilution of the existing shares.

[Dispatchdude]

Does anyone know the reason for todays Newcastle to Montego Bay diverting to Melbourne, Florida please?

Take on fuel, was originally planned to fly to Shannon for fuel uplift.

[toon22]

Didn’t see that coming! Should’ve stuck to Jet2. You live and learn.....

[rog747]

Would anyone know the winter and summer bases for the TUI 787's please?

TIA.

Also last year Matt995 kindly had and posted a plog for the whole summer TUI Flight TT - do you have one for this year yet >?

Cheers

[Matt995]

Would anyone know the winter and summer bases for the TUI 787's please?

TIA.

Also last year Matt995 kindly had and posted a plog for the whole summer TUI Flight TT - do you have one for this year yet >?

Cheers

sorry not got around to working on the TUI flights in full yet, I do have the Birmingham timetable for the summer, the base is 1 B789, 2 B788s, 3 B7M8s, 3 B738s, & also 2 Sunwing B738's. 1 of the B788 will position to Bristol to operate their Orlando & Cancun flights on Wednesdays & Thursdays.

[LAX2000]

Looks like similar to last summer at least 2 aircraft will be operating Gatwick flights on behalf of TUI from South Terminal. Seat maps show A320, is this likely to be Avion or Titan again?

[SJL26779]

Smartlynx possibly

[Matt995]

Looks like similar to last summer at least 2 aircraft will be operating Gatwick flights on behalf of TUI from South Terminal. Seat maps show A320, is this likely to be Avion or Titan again?

Gatwick is showing at least 2 Avion Express Malta A320's and 1 Titan A320 operating from South Terminal for the summer

[MANFAN]

Why is it not possible to add advanced passenger information via the TUI app?
Their website is so slowwwwwww!!

[laviation]

Jet2 is the answer. Use Aer Lingus for all your Barbados and Disney needs.

[selbrown06]

I am currently looking into the different airlines for trying to get aboard- obviously aware of the MPL assessment underway for TUI and that this may well be their in route from now on but worth doing the research anyway- I am based in Northern Ireland and although by no means fixed to this location, I was wondering if anyone working for TUI could let me know is there a base in Belfast? From the research I have done online sometimes this says that it is seasonal- what does that mean? Are there pilots based there during this time and then based elsewhere the rest of the year? Or is the Belfast base just covered on a roster from other bases?

I have also read in a number of different places that pilots are required to live 60 minutes away from their base? Can anyone confirm if this is the case also?

[cjhants]

TUI website/app badly needs attention and updating. I booked seats and special meal in premium only to find the next time I checked they had disappeared and booked by someone else.
Then booking to Madeira no indication flight was EZY until after payment made. Customer services refused to believe me even when I had screenshots of booking screen.
Not sure they will do anything until they get some decent competition on Gatwick holidays.

[SWBKCB]

I am currently looking into the different airlines for trying to get aboard- obviously aware of the MPL assessment underway for TUI and that this may well be their in route from now on but worth doing the research anyway- I am based in Northern Ireland and although by no means fixed to this location, I was wondering if anyone working for TUI could let me know is there a base in Belfast? From the research I have done online sometimes this says that it is seasonal- what does that mean? Are there pilots based there during this time and then based elsewhere the rest of the year? Or is the Belfast base just covered on a roster from other bases?

I have also read in a number of different places that pilots are required to live 60 minutes away from their base? Can anyone confirm if this is the case also?

The Belfast base being seasonal means it is summer only, and usally consists of aircraft and crew brought in on lease - from Canada in recent years

[mart901]

The Belfast base being seasonal means it is summer only, and usally consists of aircraft and crew brought in on lease - from Canada in recent years

BFS is Sunwing aircraft and pilots crewed seasonally by TUI crew for about 12 weeks. It's difficult to get to work in I understand. Emerald, easyJet and Ryanair have all been recruiting locally to my knowledge for crew and I'm sure Jet2 will soon enough if not already.

[selbrown06]

mart901 and SWBKCB thanks so much for this. Do either of you know of commuting restrictions on the TUI pilots? As in living 60 mins from base etc?

[Markushillman]

Despite Sunwing and its not so great performance last year and its now approved acquisition by Westjet that seemed to spell the end of the TUI leasing planes from them and to them, we now have more than ever for Summer 23.

X7 Frames
C-FFPH
​​​​​​C-FPRP
​​​​C-FYJD
C-GBZS
C-GFEH
C-GNCH
C-GOWG

Based at

2xBHX
1xEMA
1xABZ
1xBFS
1xCWL
1xNWI

Wonder if this will be the last year of them now Westjet have taken them over.

[double-oscar]

There are no restrictions on where you live. However, if you are on standby you are allowed thirty minutes to get ready and then a further sixty minutes to report at the crew room. How you achieve this is up to you.

[Matt995]

TUI Summer 2023 aircraft allocation, based on August schedules

B789 1 BHX, 2 LGW, 2 MAN + 1 spare LGW/MAN?

B788 2 BHX, 1 GLA/NCL, 2 LGW, 3 MAN

B763 2 MAN

B7M8 3 BHX, 5 BRS, 2 GLA, 3 LGW, 3 MAN, 2 NCL

B738 1 ABZ, 1 BFS, 5 BHX, 1 BOH, 3 CWL, 5 EMA, 1 EXT, 6 LGW, 1 LTN, 5 MAN, 2 NCL, 1 NWI, 1 STN + 2 spare?

A320 2 DUB (Avion Express Malta), 3 LGW (2 Avion Express, 1 Titan), 2 MAN (Smartlynx Estonia), 1 STN (Titan)

[Diverskii]

I've noticed TUI operating G-reg from DUB to EU- is this done with some clever trickery of wet leasing temporarily or is there another way this is allowed? I didn't keep up with what happened post-Brexit but my assumption was just that intra-EU requires EU AOC and EU reg now?

[pabely]

Contracted via their primary Irish web site tuiholdays.ie so OK I would imagine Ok. Are not most flights on W patterns currently? Once summer shedules fully kicks in then the leased examples will be based/overnight.

[ROC10]

Contracted via their primary Irish web site tuiholdays.ie so OK I would imagine Ok. Are not most flights on W patterns currently? Once summer shedules fully kicks in then the leased examples will be based/overnight.

They base a G-reg 738 at DUB over the winter which operates Canaries and ski flights. Come May, this will switch to leased aircraft for the full summer schedule.

They regularly swap the DUB-based aircraft with others in the fleet so it doesn’t appear to be any form of leasing arrangement.

[globetrotter79]

I've noticed TUI operating G-reg from DUB to EU- is this done with some clever trickery of wet leasing temporarily or is there another way this is allowed? I didn't keep up with what happened post-Brexit but my assumption was just that intra-EU requires EU AOC and EU reg now?

I thouhght the Irish flying was operated under "BLX" (Tui Nordic) flight numbers to get around the post-Brexit issue...with aircraft then wet lease onto that from the UK or 3rd party supplier.

[ROC10]

I thouhght the Irish flying was operated under "BLX" (Tui Nordic) flight numbers to get around the post-Brexit issue...with aircraft then wet lease onto that from the UK or 3rd party supplier.

I believe they did do that for one winter season (used BLX flight numbers and a consistent 738) but it has been TOM flight numbers this season on a mix of TOM G-reg 738s (just like at any other base).

[ATNotts]

I believe they did do that for one winter season (used BLX flight numbers and a consistent 738) but it has been TOM flight numbers this season on a mix of TOM G-reg 738s (just like at any other base).
How does that work with the UK being outside the EU?

[SWBKCB]

They'd have to get dispensation from the IAA - like when Emerald used EI- Atr's at BHD

And in the same way they operate Sunwings a/c from the UK in the summer

[ATNotts]

They'd have to get dispensation from the IAA - like when Emerald used EI- Atr's at BHD

And in the same way they operate Sunwings a/c from the UK in the summer
So that is not something decided in Brussels?

[pabely]

TUIfly Nordic 787-9 looks like it has tried to make it over to the LTN hanger for 2 days now from ARN. As it is needed at MAN for shedules from 5th May for summer season, is this going to make some issues?

[ericlday]

SE-RFZ due 20th 9.21

[CabinCrewe]

Kefalonia to GLA a nice little addition, though one presumes in place of something else. A bit of a bun fight with Jet2. Skaithos, Thessallonika or Santorini might have been nice. Used to be an old BY732 service to ATH and Thessalonika!

[billyg]

Kefalonia to GLA a nice little addition, though one presumes in place of something else.

Don't think so , 4 a/c base for S24 !

[SWBKCB]

Glasgow will see an additional two aircraft based at the airport, with 180,000 extra seats making it Tui’s biggest-ever programme from the city – adding new flights to Cape Verde and Greece.

Birmingham will see one additional aircraft and 100,000 extra seats, East Midlands the same.

Newcastle will have an additional aircraft based at the airport and 120,000 extra seats, and Manchester an extra aircraft and 130,000 additional seats, taking capacity from the northwest to 2.1 million.

In the south, Bournemouth and Bristol airports will have additional aircraft based at each, adding 120,000 seats from Bristol and 60,000 from Bournemouth, while Exeter will see 15,000 additional seats.

There will be an additional 200,000 seats available from Gatwick – taking capacity from the airport to two million and close to 200 weekly departures – 30,000 seats added to and from Stansted, and 14 additional flights a week from Luton.

Tui will also add 40,000 seats from Cardiff and there will be new flights to Dalaman, Turkey, from Teesside.

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/tui-uk-adds-1-1-million-seats-for-summer-2024

[LGS6753]

I wonder where the Luton slots will come from for an additional based aircraft (14 flights per week).

[CabinCrewe]

So will GLA be 4 x 737’s and a part based or full based Dreamliner 787 come S24? I thought in the Britannia heydays it wasn’t far off that with 757s and 763 but they do say ‘biggest ever program’
Presumably then more routes or frequencies to come.
Good old Tui stalwarts!

[Yeehaw22]

Am more wondering where the aircraft are coming from.
​​​​​​That's an additional 10 aircraft (if no bases are losing out) plus the loss of the 7 sunwing from this year if it's true they aren't returning for S24 now their merger has been given the go-ahead.

[LGS6753]

Am more wondering where the aircraft are coming from.
​​​​​​That's an additional 10 aircraft (if no bases are losing out) plus the loss of the 7 sunwing from this year if it's true they aren't returning for S24 now their merger has been given the go-ahead.
Some will be those redeployed from DSA

[Yeehaw22]

Some will be those redeployed from DSA

No they have already been deployed for s23. That announcement is an increase from S23.

[Richard Taylor]

Then on the -ve side, there is Aberdeen...

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/business/5641456/tui-aberdeen-airport/

[LiamNCL]

NCL gaining 5th Aircraft plus 787 on AYT & DLM on Sundays

[fanrailuk]

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/tui-uk-adds-1-1-million-seats-for-summer-2024

Looks like BRS loses its long haul operations

But always subject to change of course…

[allnamestaken1]

Is there nothing new or extra from Bfs/Dub.

[mart901]

Is there nothing new or extra from Bfs/Dub.


BFS - IBZ x1 and AGP x1 gone, additional frequency on REU x1 and ACE x1. The MLB has increased from X4 to x8 flights across the entirety of the season.

[LGS6753]

No they have already been deployed for s23. That announcement is an increase from S23.
Yes, of course. My mistake.

[cherokee leader]

I wonder if they are anticipating the 737-max10 fleet starting to be delivered in time for S24 operations. Otherwise, they're going to be scrapping around for aircraft.

[azz767]

I wonder if they are anticipating the 737-max10 fleet starting to be delivered in time for S24 operations. Otherwise, they're going to be scrapping around for aircraft.

The CEO of TUI said in an interview that the TUI group fleet of A/C are flexible now across the board. Could we see Nordic, Belgian or German a/c fly for TUI UK in S24 much like SE-RFZ has been doing the last two summers. Surely there will be some spare capacity across the whole group to help out.

Otherwise I agree, scrapping round for aircraft is an understatement. They’ve already got rid of a number of 737-8’s over this winter so they must be hedging their bets on max deliveries if no contingencies are in place.

[HH6702]

The CEO of TUI said in an interview that the TUI group fleet of A/C are flexible now across the board. Could we see Nordic, Belgian or German a/c fly for TUI UK in S24 much like SE-RFZ has been doing the last two summers. Surely there will be some spare capacity across the whole group to help out.

Otherwise I agree, scrapping round for aircraft is an understatement. They’ve already got rid of a number of 737-8’s over this winter so they must be hedging their bets on max deliveries if no contingencies are in place.


maybe a large lease of aircraft from
Smartlynx and Avion

[rog747]

TUI UK have a lot of the 230 seat 737 -10's on order -
They are now badly delayed by years - they should have been in service in 2021 to begin to replace all of the 757's.
I'm not sure if TUI's current order of 16 aircraft has even been built yet.

No idea if Boeing is going to get the -10 (B3XM) approved or not - if not, then TUI may have to stick with converting the orders back to the 189 seat B738M,
or to go for new orders for the A321N and/or the NXLR.

The -10 has still to obtain the 'grandfather' rights of the 737 family - But it may not - and if not, then Boeing either has to make some revisions to flightdeck alerting systems and get recertification which means existing pilots cannot fly it without new Sim and Line training (which Boeing had guaranteed existing 737 airlines that this would not be needed when the MAX project was launched) or Boeing has to scrap the project.
The 737 MAX -10 Certification has been delayed by slower processes following the FAAs tightening of procedures following the two MAX accidents.
This has delayed any expected certification date to late 2023 which is after the FAAs 27 Dec 2022 deadline after which all newly certified transport aircraft types require a "flight crew alerting system".
Boeing is challenging the need for the 737-10 to have such a system as it would make it significantly different from other 737 models.

Also it remains to be seen that for W23/24 and for S24 the Sunwing/Westjet lease deal will continue again.
This past winter saw TUI UK B738M's go to Canada as well as B738's.

It is notable that there are quite a few new ACMI airlines starting up in various parts of Europe, and Eastern Europe - obviously they see the market there.

IMHO even if the -10 is approved, we will not see them with TUI in 2024.

[EPRman]

TUI’s CEO was on an Airbus factory tour in Toulouse the other day. Make of that what you will.

[CabinCrewe]

TUI’s CEO was on an Airbus factory tour in Toulouse the other day. Make of that what you will.
Wonder what the options might be there? Suppose BY/TOM used lots of 757s- so A321LRs? Can’t see them taking A330/50’s. Maybe A220’s for Netherlands/Germany ops?
Suppose these CEOs get courted for visits all the time. How old are the oldest 738’s now? Still have 737-10’s to be delivered.
Something and nothing would be my feeling at this point.

[VickersVicount]

remember the leased A320 in partial Britannia colours early 90’s?

[SWBKCB]

I was told many years ago by somebody in Britannia's planning department - selling the seats is the hard part, we can over always find aircraft.

Also is it confirmed that the Sunwings deal is off - thought they were going to be run as an arms lengthbody, and the fundamentals of seasonal demand don't change.


Suppose these CEOs get courted for visits all the time. How old are the oldest 738’s now? Still have 737-10’s to be delivered.
Something and nothing would be my feeling at this point.

I agree - and what are the odds of getting 321's of the line anytime soon?

[P330]

remember the leased A320 in partial Britannia colours early 90’s?

I remember them. Transaer I believe was the operator (or at least one of them). Flew on them a few times when BY had an aircraft at LBA. 1998 if I remember right.

[rog747]

remember the leased A320 in partial Britannia colours early 90’s?

Yes indeed, a few A320's were leased to BY from Translift/TransAer around 1998/99.

To put the A320 history into context here with TUI musings about any new order -

Excalibur Airways' Airbus A320-200's were the first operator to hit the UK charter market with the new type in 1992 - and look where we have come since then.
Soon after Excalibur, almost everyone who was already a 757 and/or a 737 operator had dipped their toes with the then new A320;
Often just with one or two examples at first - Owners Abroad/Air 2000, IEA, Inspirations Holidays/Caledonian, Leisure International, Ambassador Airlines, and of course Britannia Airways.
Monarch joined in too with a small fleet starting from 1993.

Airtours International took over IEA in 1993 inheriting their two A320 and soon AIH ordered a sole new A320 in their own right, and they then obtained more A320's through Danish partner Conair/Premiair and that saw off their MD-83 fleet. AIH also leased the Excalibur A320's after they went under.
Airworld was an early A320 operator, subsequently, being the in-house charter airline of Thomas Cook, Airworld, adopted the Flying Colours Airlines brand.
Leisure International was bought by Air 2000, and Caledonian Airways was merged into Thomas Cook's new airline brand along with Airworld and Flying Colours to become JMC Air.


I can maybe foresee a 'seachange' at TUI and the A321N's could be part of an order if the Boeing debacle continues, although the B738M has shown and continues to be popular, but notwithstanding the pretty poor show of 787 reliability last summer which saw some sustainable work subbed out to other airlines in the height of the season to keep the long haul operation going.
The TUI 787's seem to be rather long in the tooth and resale prospects look patchy.
For long-haul, many of the European Charters airlines are going with the latest A330-900NEO type, and some with the high density A350.
TUI would be 'back of the queue' for any big Airbus order though, unless there are airfarmes unallocated still not snapped up having been idle due to the economic downturn and Russia etc.

[VickersVicount]

Not sure I could agree the 787’s are long in the tooth. A Tower Air 747-100 is long in the tooth. A 4 year old modern tech 789 will have 20 years plus in it if they were anything like the 767s. Not sure eg a A330neo brings anything new to the table.

[double-oscar]

I don’t think the 787’s were particularly unreliable last year, in fact they seemed to cope with the enforced storage brought on by Covid surprisingly well. The big problem was disruption to the maintenance schedule and then scheduled maintenance over-running due to a lack of parts caused by disruption in the supply chain. This meant there was little spare capacity in the system so that when big delays occurred aircraft were subbed in to restore the program.

[LGS6753]

Suppose these CEOs get courted for visits all the time. How old are the oldest 738’s now? Still have 737-10’s to be delivered.
Something and nothing would be my feeling at this point.
​​​​​​​The CEO wouldn't be doing his job properly if he wasn't aware of the options available to him, particularly as those options only come from two sources.

[azz767]

Not sure I could agree the 787’s are long in the tooth. A Tower Air 747-100 is long in the tooth. A 4 year old modern tech 789 will have 20 years plus in it if they were anything like the 767s. Not sure eg a A330neo brings anything new to the table.

Having flown on them a number of times over the past two years they could definitely do with a bit of tlc. The paint work is very faded and the interiors could do with a refresh. Still more than usable and for a charter airline like TUI, no one should be expecting ME3 levels of quality but for comfort on long haul the cabins on the Dreamliners could be made more comfortable.

[chinapattern]

Whether it’s the move away from Sanford or the rising prices for families heading to the theme parks but it looks like Melbourne might be struggling. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a few 787’s coming off long haul and replacing the two 767s on the high density short haul routes.

[laviation]

Whether it’s the move away from Sanford or the rising prices for families heading to the theme parks but it looks like Melbourne might be struggling. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a few 787’s coming off long haul and replacing the two 767s on the high density short haul routes.
Melbourne was a strange routing anyway. Virtually nothing nearby! You either go to Fort Lauderdale or Sanford/MCO, nothing in between will work!

[H44]

I believe Melbourne was chosen because it’s near Port Canaveral for the cruise ships.

[rog747]

Indeed (Orlando) Melbourne MLB was chosen because it’s near Port Canaveral for the groups TUI Marella cruise ships.
TUI's cruise competitor, Virgin Voyages newish product operates from the Port of Miami.

As a package holiday company this brings passengers closer to their cruises, although it has angered many TUI passengers who fly with the company to visit Orlando for Walt Disney World and Universal Orlando Resorts etc.
The TUI MLB Florida route is now also seasonal: from BFS BHX BRS, LGW MAN, NCL, EDI and GLA, so basically TUI have almost abandoned the year-round land/fly-drive holiday packages for the Orlando area.

To put a spin on Florida/Orlando Holidays ----
These leaves Virgin Holidays as the main dedicated package holiday company to serve Orlando, plus BA Holidays too.
However, Virgin Atlantic have drastically cut back it's MCO flights for summer 2023 from all of their UK Airports,
and have dropped completely their once very popular seasonal flights from BFS and GLA.
Their new Edinburgh to Orlando flights have been pushed back to start at the end of June.

Both BA and Virgin fly into MCO, plus Aer Lingus now fly there from MAN.
Norse Atlantic UK Airways start MCO from LGW on May 25th 2023.

No one goes to SFB Sanford Orlando anymore - what a change there - TUI UK was the last airline, now all gone.
Thomas Cook and Monarch were the previous SFB losses.
(Although Thomas Cook Airlines had shifted back to MCO McCoy just before they went under)

Orlando, Florida, USA is one of the world's premier travel destinations, with approximately 70 million visitors a year visiting its various attractions in a ‘normal’ year.
The times are anything but normal now, and the region's tourist industry has been hit hard by the pandemic, with the prolonged closure or reduced accessibility of attractions, and hotels consistently losing business.
The Magic Kingdom theme park (Walt Disney World Florida) saw visitor numbers fall from 20.9 million in 2019 to 6.9 million in 2021.
Walt Disney World Florida was the most visited theme park in the world in 2019, and Florida had six of the top 12 visited attractions globally in that year.

But, notwithstanding that, it has to be said the costs of holidaying to the USA nowadays have shot up and no is longer affordable to many UK families.

I was last in NYC in summer 2019 and a 'Diner' breakfast in Greenwich Village for two cost me almost $40 without the Tip -
Dinner was over $100 for two -- if you were lucky...
Gone are the days of super cheap Alamo Car Hire, a $5.99 Diner breakfast and leave a Dollar Buck for the Waitress.

I can fully understand Jet2 not crossing the 'Pond' and joining in the Florida game.

Re the TUI 787's being 'long in the tooth' - the majority of 788's are now facing 10 years old, and the first 789 came in 2016, then more from 2018.
The state of them both inside and out, have been the subject of comments both on here, and on Travel Forums.
TUI's crews are overwhelmingly fantastic, but many of the long haul ACMI sub charters flown for them last summer were on pretty old replacements and did not serve TUI's Premium product well. Passenger complaints were high.
TUI's Bristol flights to both MLB and CUN suffered delays and diversions during all of the summer for varying technical and operational reasons but this was not a good look with the locals.
787-9 G-TUIP was brand new and f/f in 2021 but for some reason it is still stored in the desert at VCV.

TUI's major German competitor Condor is taking delivery of the new A330-900N to replace its 767-300 fleet.
Having just flown with them on one of these (to Palma) I can say hands down what a fantastic improvement for long haul charter passengers this is.
2-4-2 Y seating as we know, is way superior to 3-3-3 in the 787, although TUI did at first, have a decent 33'' Y seat pitch in its 787's and was much liked by the customers.
Condor's Premium product is outstanding, up there with Virgin and far superior to BA.

Old 787-8's will be hard to shift and so I guess TUI will hang on to them for years though...

[pabely]

I'm sure AB will be courting the TUI CEO, with Paris 2024 looming, who knows, something else, canx the Max10 (if it needs for whole new certificate) & 787 replacement?

[Severn]

Just a personal note on using MLB vs MCO - MCO is an awful airport to use, I’ve never got out of the terminal in under an hour having arrived on an international flight. Even this week, arriving on BA into the brand new Terminal C at MCO (which is very nice), it still took over 2 hours to leave the terminal after landing. A long walk to baggage reclaim, bags started arriving after 20 mins but were incredibly slow (we were the only intl arrival at the time too), and my bag took another 35 mins before it finally came out. Then 10 mins for immigration, and afterwards 40 mins in a hire car queue (even with status with a pre-booked hire). Some travellers then had travel to the old terminals to pick up their car.

Arriving into MLB is fantastic. Very friendly staff, never any queues, and you’re out in no time at all. If going to Disney/universal in Orlando, you’d probably still get there quicker than you would if you arrived into MCO even with the longer drive.

Met a couple with a house a couple hours south of MCO who now exclusively use the TUI flights to MLB even though for them it’s a longer drive as they find the experience so much nicer and quicker than arriving into MCO. At any age, no-one wants to stand around for hours after arriving on a longhaul flight.

[Jamie236]

When are Tui due more 737max to replace the outgoing aircraft

[Mr @ Spotty M]

All max deliveries are on hold due to manufacturing issues yet again with various Boeing aircraft.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Why did they choose Melbourne, FL over a return to Sanford? There was a time when SFB was the alternative to MCO?

[Yeehaw22]

Why did they choose Melbourne, FL over a return to Sanford? There was a time when SFB was the alternative to MCO?

The rumour I heard was SFB were trying to put the fees up (a lot) and weren't prepared to invest in the terminal. MLB were very keen to get them in and they've done the terminal up to suit TUI specifically. Couple that to the increase in cruises from port Canaveral.

All the feedback I've heard from people who've used it has all been positive, even with the slightly longer drive, although the milage is more the time taken is negligible compared to SFB.

Although I suspect the Florida holidays are going to suffer in the short term, irrespective of which airport is used, due to the exchange rate and cost of living. All inclusives have more appeal to a lot of families.

[737James]

I have heard that Tui 787 G-TUII has been into the hangers at Luton recently and has had its seating changed with the premium cabin removed at the front so now 3-3-3 as as well as the Extra space seats in the most rear cabin is due to position up to Birmingham

This fits in with seating plan that is showing BHX having a 788 operating short/mid haul for most of the week apart from one MEL rotation a week

[P330]

I have heard that Tui 787 G-TUII has been into the hangers at Luton recently and has had its seating changed with the premium cabin removed at the front so now 3-3-3 as as well as the Extra space seats in the most rear cabin is due to position up to Birmingham

This fits in with seating plan that is showing BHX having a 788 operating short/mid haul for most of the week apart from one MEL rotation a week

So, on the one long haul rotation, does the aircraft fly in short haul configuration?

[737James]

So, on the one long haul rotation, does the aircraft fly in short haul configuration?

Yes I believe so as I have seen comments online of Florida customers being told premium is no longer available and that seat maps have changed.

It makes sense to choose this one flight as MEL is the shortest of the Long Haul routes from BHX and is a more family themed destination

[ROC10]

I have heard that Tui 787 G-TUII has been into the hangers at Luton recently and has had its seating changed with the premium cabin removed at the front so now 3-3-3 as as well as the Extra space seats in the most rear cabin is due to position up to Birmingham

This fits in with seating plan that is showing BHX having a 788 operating short/mid haul for most of the week apart from one MEL rotation a week

G-TUII did position LTN-BHX yesterday but then positioned BHX-LGW this morning and is now operating LGW-CUN so presumably no Premium available on that flight.

[oldart]

Is it possible that TUI are having problems selling premium seats on long haul, the prices seem to be quite high.!

[SJL26779]

Is it possible that TUI are having problems selling premium seats on long haul, the prices seem to be quite high.!

Quite the opposite, most of the premium cabins are really heavily booked, hence the high price. If they were struggling to sell the premium then it would be at a reduced cost. Some of the premium cabins are almost £500 per person on some routes.

[Jeeves.S]

Yes indeed, a few A320's were leased to BY from Translift/TransAer around 1998/99.

To put the A320 history into context here with TUI musings about any new order -

Excalibur Airways' Airbus A320-200's were the first operator to hit the UK charter market with the new type in 1992 - and look where we have come since then.
Soon after Excalibur, almost everyone who was already a 757 and/or a 737 operator had dipped their toes with the then new A320;
Often just with one or two examples at first - Owners Abroad/Air 2000, IEA, Inspirations Holidays/Caledonian, Leisure International, Ambassador Airlines, and of course Britannia Airways.
Monarch joined in too with a small fleet starting from 1993.

Airtours International took over IEA in 1993 inheriting their two A320 and soon AIH ordered a sole new A320 in their own right, and they then obtained more A320's through Danish partner Conair/Premiair and that saw off their MD-83 fleet. AIH also leased the Excalibur A320's after they went under.
Airworld was an early A320 operator, subsequently, being the in-house charter airline of Thomas Cook, Airworld, adopted the Flying Colours Airlines brand.
Leisure International was bought by Air 2000, and Caledonian Airways was merged into Thomas Cook's new airline brand along with Airworld and Flying Colours to become JMC Air.


I can maybe foresee a 'seachange' at TUI and the A321N's could be part of an order if the Boeing debacle continues, although the B738M has shown and continues to be popular, but notwithstanding the pretty poor show of 787 reliability last summer which saw some sustainable work subbed out to other airlines in the height of the season to keep the long haul operation going.
The TUI 787's seem to be rather long in the tooth and resale prospects look patchy.
For long-haul, many of the European Charters airlines are going with the latest A330-900NEO type, and some with the high density A350.
TUI would be 'back of the queue' for any big Airbus order though, unless there are airfarmes unallocated still not snapped up having been idle due to the economic downturn and Russia etc.
What charter airline in Europe operate the a350?

[billyg]

What charter airline in Europe operate the a350?

Iberojet ?

[Jeeves.S]

Iberojet ?
Thats the one. I had stupidly forgotten lol

[Yeehaw22]

G-TUII did position LTN-BHX yesterday but then positioned BHX-LGW this morning and is now operating LGW-CUN so presumably no Premium available on that flight.

TUII isn't in short haul config. The 3 this year will be TUIB/D/F. 1 ea at Man/Bhx/Lgw but none are completed yet, D currently in progress. According to the schedules no long haul is planned on any of them. All subject to change of course.

[alstaff]

i am due to fly to Alicante next Tuesday tom7292 from bhx, the flight is showing as a 757 but i thought tui no longer operated this aircraft type, does anyone know what this aircraft will be. cheers

[xanda_man]

i am due to fly to Alicante next Tuesday tom7292 from bhx, the flight is showing as a 757 but i thought tui no longer operated this aircraft type, does anyone know what this aircraft will be. cheers

BY7292 is scheduled as either a 738 or B38M. If you check FR24 the evening before you should see exactly which airframe you're flying on.

Where did you see it as a 757?

[alstaff]

thanks for your reply xanda man, it is showing as a 757 on my e ticket and the seat plan indicates an aircraft with 37 rows of seats single aisle

[dmouse88]

Flight 7292 is shown on Flight mapper as a 737-800.

[alstaff]

Flight 7292 is shown on Flight mapper as a 737-800.
I have now had an email from tui informing me that the flight will now be operated by privilege style.

[laviation]

Could be a wet-leased A321

[Matt995]

thanks for your reply xanda man, it is showing as a 757 on my e ticket and the seat plan indicates an aircraft with 37 rows of seats single aisle

TOM7292 is meant to be a B738 all summer, however its possible that TUI might be using a Privilege Style B752 with 216 seats as cover, while they get all their aircraft back from Sunwing lease, or maintenance. Last year the Privilege 757 operated for them early summer season out of Manchester.

[Jn14:6]

Jethro's showing a leased Privilege Style 757, based BHX.

[Matt995]

Jethro's showing a leased Privilege Style 757, based BHX.

Believe it's just a short term lease to cover for 1 B738 at BHX

TUI currently have 4 B738 aircraft under maintenance, G-TAWK, G-TAWO, G-TAWS, G-TAWV, also B789 G-TUIJ is in Abu Dhabi for maintenance, and 737 Max G-TUMA has just ferried to NCL to re-enter service tomorrow.

[JonnyH]

Believe it's just a short term lease to cover for 1 B738 at BHX

TUI currently have 4 B738 aircraft under maintenance, G-TAWK, G-TAWO, G-TAWS, G-TAWV, also B789 G-TUIJ is in Abu Dhabi for maintenance, and 737 Max G-TUMA has just ferried to NCL to re-enter service tomorrow.

TUMA will position into BRS after today. Yesterdays LPA diverted back to NCL after one of the pilots took ill over Ireland. Hopefully he’s alright.

[737James]

TUII isn't in short haul config. The 3 this year will be TUIB/D/F. 1 ea at Man/Bhx/Lgw but none are completed yet, D currently in progress. According to the schedules no long haul is planned on any of them. All subject to change of course.

Does anyone know when the 788 is in high density configuration do they remove the seats with IFE and replace with standard seats ?

Also is it still rows 7,37 and 39 that do not have a window or does it change when in high density configuration

[chinapattern]

Summer 24 already off to a great start - a Privilege Style 757 has been based at BHX from last week as they are short of 737s and an Air Tanker A330 had to be drafted in yesterday as they had sent the short haul based 787 up to MAN.

[AircraftOperations]

Summer 24 already off to a great start - a Privilege Style 757 has been based at BHX from last week as they are short of 737s and an Air Tanker A330 had to be drafted in yesterday as they had sent the short haul based 787 up to MAN.

And they seem to have a Norse B789 operating for them ex-MAN

[chinapattern]

And just the small five hour delay on Manchester-Espargos this evening!

[Cazza_fly]

Does anyone know when the 788 is in high density configuration do they remove the seats with IFE and replace with standard seats ?

Also is it still rows 7,37 and 39 that do not have a window or does it change when in high density configuration

All IFE remains and you can bring your own or purchase headsets onboard to use the system.

[ROC10]

Summer 24 already off to a great start - a Privilege Style 757 has been based at BHX from last week as they are short of 737s and an Air Tanker A330 had to be drafted in yesterday as they had sent the short haul based 787 up to MAN.

The short haul 787 only went from BHX to MAN this evening to cover one of the 767s which appears to have gone tech. It was idle at BHX for most of today so maybe this was down to a TUI 787 crew shortage? Another 787 is currently in LTN being converted to SH. According to a previous post, there will be three SH 787s this summer so presumably still another to be converted after that.

It doesn’t seem to be as bad as last year yet but they do seem to struggle in May as they have several aircraft out of action in maintenance or delayed coming back from Sunwing. They initially only bring in a couple of Sunwing aircraft (more will follow) but they still have some of their own aircraft yet to return to TUI service, leading to a few last minute charters over the past few days.

[Cazza_fly]

The short haul 787 only went from BHX to MAN this evening to cover one of the 767s which appears to have gone tech. It was idle at BHX for most of today so maybe this was down to a TUI 787 crew shortage? Another 787 is currently in LTN being converted to SH. According to a previous post, there will be three SH 787s this summer so presumably still another to be converted after that.

It doesn’t seem to be as bad as last year yet but they do seem to struggle in May as they have several aircraft out of action in maintenance or delayed coming back from Sunwing. They initially only bring in a couple of Sunwing aircraft (more will follow) but they still have some of their own aircraft yet to return to TUI service, leading to a few last minute charters over the past few days.

In all fairness, all the above mentioned sub-charters are pre-planned in the past few weeks and are not last minute rescues. There's planned maintenance on the 737-800 and 787 fleets that's running a few weeks behind and causing the issue of having to hire in this additional help. Hopefully by the end of May, things should be back on track.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

How do you know that Summer 24 has got off to a bad start?
Can you see into the future? :ugh:

[alstaff]

Flew to alicante with privilege, no problems decent aircraft good on time flight (I'm no expert but i have no complaints)

[Matt995]

In all fairness, all the above mentioned sub-charters are pre-planned in the past few weeks and are not last minute rescues. There's planned maintenance on the 737-800 and 787 fleets that's running a few weeks behind and causing the issue of having to hire in this additional help. Hopefully by the end of May, things should be back on track.

Fleet Update:-

738 - G-TAWK re-entered service 5th May, G-TAWO just ferried to LGW, so should re-enter service today/tomorrow, G-TAWV, re-entered service 7th May, - just leaves G-TAWS out of service currently at St Athan's after Sunwing lease
7M8 - G-TUMN still flying for Sunwing, due back around 18th May, G-TUMU, ferried to Brussels 28th April for maintenance
788 - G-TUIB at Luton being converted to short haul.
789 - G-TUIJ is in Abu Dhabi for maintenance since 17th April, SE-RFZ at Luton since 20th April

[arfortune]

Disappointing to discover TUI are pulling long haul flights in 2024 from Bristol. No reasons given beyond ‘we’ve reviewed our programme’, but we’ve had to swap to Gatwick.

[VickersVicount]

Disappointing to discover TUI are pulling long haul flights in 2024 from Bristol. No reasons given beyond ‘we’ve reviewed our programme’, but we’ve had to swap to Gatwick.
Perhaps more profitable elsewhere on currently tighter margins? Suspect BRS has always been a bit marginal so now first to be culled, but could equally be reinstated.

[chaps1954]

Just wondering if it is because the 2 767 at MAN are going this winter and the 787s are needed at MAN

[LiamNCL]

Theres a 787 doing some short haul out of NCL next summer too.

[Flightrider]

More likely a realisation of the cost and complexity of positioning 787s about with crews chasing them across the countryside. Even if slightly revenue negative then the cost savings from all of that lesser complexity must be huge.

[chinapattern]

Didn’t BRS have a 787 based last year operating short haul in between the Melbourne and Cancun runs?

[marko1]

Didn’t BRS have a 787 based last year operating short haul in between the Melbourne and Cancun runs?

yes flying to Palma , dalaman , Antalya and larnaca

[Smudge's Lot]

Yes, with LGW/BHX and MAN based pilots, all very expensive. There are no BRS based 787 pilots.....

[Rivet Joint]

Anyone know why they have decided not to take their last 787-9? Very odd decision considering they seem to have an aircraft shortage and are losing two 767s. It’s not like they can get more 787s in the future any time soon with the huge waiting list. Very odd.

[Breathe]

Bullish talk from the new CEO of AGS Airports in an interview with The Herald.

For Europe, links to the big European hubs of CDG and IST with Air France and Turkish and their networks would be great boost for GLA. Perhaps a summer seasonal to MAD with Iberia would be an added bonus too. The other priority would be to try and get Ryanair back with a significant route network.

Of the US3, United and Delta would be the best bets in attempting to restart scheduled US routes at GLA. Although, right now, they seem to be content with serving Scotland (and Northern/North East England) at EDI. Perhaps there might be an opportunity with jetBlue.

Hopefully this isn't just some hot bluster and another false dawn for GLA.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/business_hq/23527098.glasgow-airport-boss-andy-cliffe-powerful-city-not-punching-weight/

Mr Cliffe said of Glasgow: “I think it is a fabulous city and I hadn’t visited enough before I arrived. I think there are just huge opportunities to grow that and develop it still further.”

Referring to his ambitions to build routes, he said: “North American connections we will target coming back, European paired destinations we will target coming back.”

He flagged potential for new services to Germany, the north of Italy, and Spanish cities such as Madrid, focused on “real business and trade” rather than the leisure market.

Noting recent successes for the airport with package holiday operator TUI, which is basing an additional two planes at the airport from summer next year, and Jet2, Mr Cliffe added: “We serve the leisure market extremely well. I think what I am describing…is our connectivity to support economic development and growth right across the region.”

[VickersVicount]

…only vaguely to do with TUI ?

[McBruce]

Disappointing to discover TUI are pulling long haul flights in 2024 from Bristol. No reasons given beyond ‘we’ve reviewed our programme’, but we’ve had to swap to Gatwick.

They said in a press release or results recently that long haul is still lagging behind in recovery so perhaps this has something to do with it.

[azz767]

Forgive my ignorance but why is SE-RFZ doing only MAN-CUN.

Why doesn’t it fly various routes like the other Dreamliners? I’m assuming there is a reason

[VickersVicount]

They said in a press release or results recently that long haul is still lagging behind in recovery so perhaps this has something to do with it.
Has EDI short season CUN and MLB been ditched too for S24?

[LiamNCL]

G-FDZR which was withdrawn and returned to its lessor in 2021 then went onto Fly Gangwon has been repainted back into the TUI livery in Ostrava last week with the UK flag next to its temporary registration. Planespotters.net has it due again as G-FDZR

[SJL26779]

Forgive my ignorance but why is SE-RFZ doing only MAN-CUN.

Why doesn’t it fly various routes like the other Dreamliners? I’m assuming there is a reason

I have also wanted to know this

[manchesterflyer2]

All due to post-Brexit complexities - SE-RFZ uses Nordic-based pilots on and a relatively small pool of UK-based cabin crew who have dispensation to fly under the Swedish AOC. So the flight deck & cabin crew are not 100% interchangeable with the G-Reg 787 fleet. Therefore the most efficient way of using the aircraft is to use on the Cancun route which operates up to 6 x weekly - means the crew are only stopping in Cancun one night and there is one pool of crew allocated to this specific route which eliminates a lot of complexity. This year the route runs 6 x times weekly rather than daily, no flight on Tuesday to provide ‘catch up time’, maintenance input & deep cleaning.

[ROC10]

All due to post-Brexit complexities - SE-RFZ uses Nordic-based pilots on and a relatively small pool of UK-based cabin crew who have dispensation to fly under the Swedish AOC. So the flight deck & cabin crew are not 100% interchangeable with the G-Reg 787 fleet. Therefore the most efficient way of using the aircraft is to use on the Cancun route which operates up to 6 x weekly - means the crew are only stopping in Cancun one night and there is one pool of crew allocated to this specific route which eliminates a lot of complexity. This year the route runs 6 x times weekly rather than daily, no flight on Tuesday to provide ‘catch up time’, maintenance input & deep cleaning.

Is there a reason why the aircraft was switched from the UK register to the Swedish register (was previously G-TUIK) rather than just going over to the Nordics as a G-reg in winter like the others do?

I’m assuming TUI UK needs the additional support of Nordic pilots (and not only the aircraft itself) during the summer.

[ATNotts]

Is there a reason why the aircraft was switched from the UK register to the Swedish register (was previously G-TUIK) rather than just going over to the Nordics as a G-reg in winter like the others do?

I’m assuming TUI UK needs the additional support of Nordic pilots (and not only the aircraft itself) during the summer.
I should have thought that was obvious; Brexit. What used to be possible is now very much less so.

[SJL26779]

Hi does anyone know the reason for the Boa Vista to Manchester diverting to Tenerife last night please?

[Jamie236]

Hi does anyone know the reason for the Boa Vista to Manchester diverting to Tenerife last night please?

cockpit display malfunction according to a hotel group I’m in and a passenger on the flight .

[JonnyH]

Looks like Summer 23 hasn’t had a great start again for TUI. Tech issues, delays (some of them 24 hrs +) and further aircraft brought into cover.

I know this is just the start and things may improve but if they don’t, how long can this go on for? Last year was terrible and it must have cost a small fortune. It isn’t sustainable or profitable long term.

[Yeehaw22]

Looks like Summer 23 hasn’t had a great start again for TUI. Tech issues, delays (some of them 24 hrs +) and further aircraft brought into cover.

I know this is just the start and things may improve but if they don’t, how long can this go on for? Last year was terrible and it must have cost a small fortune. It isn’t sustainable or profitable long term.

It's certainly nowhere near as bad as last year but I agree it seems to be same s**t different year.

Lots of aircraft on later than usual maintenance slots, later returns from Canada, 3rd parties doing what 3rd parties do, lack of organisation, lack of staff in certain areas of the business. Aircraft being damaged by inexperienced ground crew. Spares availability on some fleets. The list could go on.

Despite numerous "summer 23 readiness" projects nothing seems to have really changed as such. I'm amazed that some of the senior management team's heads haven't rolled yet, as theres little confidence in them internally.

Am just hoping they're getting over the hump and things will improve from here.

​​

[simonwa]

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/dramatic-moment-edinburgh-tui-plane-27028590

My work colleague was on this flight. The flight was delayed first by an intoxicated woman saying she had lost her passport. It went out to runway and then came back to the terminal first to refuel as it missed the slot. Then the plane departed but returned due to being overweight with fuel.

My work colleague had to wait all night in the terminal as TUI claimed no hotels available. They were then sent home as they were due to go on a cruise and TUI said they were unable to get them to the cruise ship as it had left already. There were only two Swissport reps at the airport who did not have a clue what they were doing and how to handle the situation. Edinburgh airport managers actually pleaded with them to complain to TUI as the airport is fed up with the airline and the issues already this summer.

to make matters worse, the plane later departed a few hours after landing back to Aberdeen, perfectly serviceable.

[azz767]

Tui’s biggest problem to me seems to be the over reliance on 3rd parties. However given the size they are now what is the alternative?

Jet2 are the benchmark in customer service because by and large their ground service team work for the company so know the ramifications if things go wrong.

I hate to say this and I hope that it’s not the case but TUI seem to not be able to get their ducks in a row, and the decision making to outsource to ACMI providers who by and large don’t know their backside from their elbow, it all smacks of the last few years of TCX when they were trying to sort everything out.

I’m not saying TUI will go for the same reasons but if you can’t service what you have yourself reliably, relying on the likes of Smartlynx and Avion is not the way to go. Look at Jet2 again, Smartlynx let them down last summer so they sort alternative providers this year.

In no way am I a jet2 fanboy but the decision making on a business and customer service level is to be applauded especially compared to TUI.

[double-oscar]

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/dramatic-moment-edinburgh-tui-plane-27028590

My work colleague was on this flight. The flight was delayed first by an intoxicated woman saying she had lost her passport. It went out to runway and then came back to the terminal first to refuel as it missed the slot. Then the plane departed but returned due to being overweight with fuel.

My work colleague had to wait all night in the terminal as TUI claimed no hotels available. They were then sent home as they were due to go on a cruise and TUI said they were unable to get them to the cruise ship as it had left already. There were only two Swissport reps at the airport who did not have a clue what they were doing and how to handle the situation. Edinburgh airport managers actually pleaded with them to complain to TUI as the airport is fed up with the airline and the issues already this summer.

to make matters worse, the plane later departed a few hours after landing back to Aberdeen, perfectly serviceable.

Unfortunately these things happen. Sadly passengers are often the cause of delays. The aircraft then returned because it had a technical problem, not because it had too much fuel. However, it did land overweight so it is not unusual for the fire service to inspect the brakes. Once these things happen it is often difficult to predict how long rectification might take or how long it might take to source an alternative aircraft. Sometimes the decisions taken often don’t work as expected. Presumably it departed later because someone carried out the required maintenance actions. I hope TUI have made contact to offer suitable compensation.

[ROC10]

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/dramatic-moment-edinburgh-tui-plane-27028590

My work colleague was on this flight. The flight was delayed first by an intoxicated woman saying she had lost her passport. It went out to runway and then came back to the terminal first to refuel as it missed the slot. Then the plane departed but returned due to being overweight with fuel.

My work colleague had to wait all night in the terminal as TUI claimed no hotels available. They were then sent home as they were due to go on a cruise and TUI said they were unable to get them to the cruise ship as it had left already. There were only two Swissport reps at the airport who did not have a clue what they were doing and how to handle the situation. Edinburgh airport managers actually pleaded with them to complain to TUI as the airport is fed up with the airline and the issues already this summer.

to make matters worse, the plane later departed a few hours after landing back to Aberdeen, perfectly serviceable.

I’m sure an expert will be able to enlighten us on this issue. I’m not pilot but it sounds quite unusual to me and that they probably were being very cautious, given the aircraft positioned up to ABZ not long after. It doesn’t really surprise me though given the flight was operated by Sunwing.

I think this may be the last year of Sunwing ops for TUI given the WestJet acquisition but I’m not sure. If so, I have no idea how they plan to replace the capacity (especially given their growth plans for S24) but I’ve long felt that the sooner they ditch the Sunwing arrangement, the better. The Sunwing flights seem to be plagued with all sorts of issues year after year and the associated customer service from TUI often seems to be pretty dire.

I’m by no means a TUI basher. I actually flew with them just last month out of Glasgow and, other than poor legroom on the MAX (although this varied by row!), I was pretty impressed. Flights on time (or time made up) in both directions and nothing really to complain about. We had a minor delay on the return leg due to issues at the departure airport and the Captain made an appearance in the cabin to make an announcement, explaining and apologising. The FO also greeted us on the steps as we boarded the aircraft and gave very detailed briefings re the details of the flight. Really great service in my opinion!

However, EDI is my local airport and, truth is, we only flew TUI from GLA because we had vouchers and flight times were good. Previously we regularly flew TUI from EDI but now the base is closed, we’d be less likely to use them on the whole as GLA is significantly further away. Given the Sunwing ops, I’d actively avoid any TUI flight from EDI. That may seem a bit extreme but I’ve seen this kind of shambles happen too many times to risk it, especially for a cruise holiday (which is now the only reason they fly from EDI).

[simonwa]

Unfortunately these things happen. Sadly passengers are often the cause of delays. The aircraft then returned because it had a technical problem, not because it had too much fuel. However, it did land overweight so it is not unusual for the fire service to inspect the brakes. Once these things happen it is often difficult to predict how long rectification might take or how long it might take to source an alternative aircraft. Sometimes the decisions taken often don’t work as expected. Presumably it departed later because someone carried out the required maintenance actions. I hope TUI have made contact to offer suitable compensation.

It did actually return due to a fuel weight issue. The aircraft took off and was unable to reach the cruising altitude so circled and returned to Edinburgh. My work colleague has still not received a refund for the cancelled holiday so was unable to book a last minute trip following these events as they had already taken time off work for the holiday. TUI did not provide any updates to passengers during the night at the airport.

[jethro15]

It did actually return due to a fuel weight issue. The aircraft took off and was unable to reach the cruising altitude so circled and returned to Edinburgh.
Your evidence of which is..........................

[CabinCrewe]

Your evidence of which is..........................
Was all over mainstream press, some of which im sure had some accuracy. What theory did you have as an alternative?
https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/dramatic-moment-edinburgh-tui-plane-27028590?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

[ATNotts]

Was all over mainstream press, some of which im sure had some accuracy. What theory did you have as an alternative?
https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/dramatic-moment-edinburgh-tui-plane-27028590?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target
Generally I don't associate a 'Reach' publication with 'accuracy', their online clickbait stories are generally just that; stories!

[double-oscar]

Very occasionally I have taken off with too much fuel but the solution has not been to land back but to fly to destination at high speed, low level, a longer route or a combination of all three. The true story has definitely been lost in translation.

[chinapattern]

The positioning of 787s between bases continues to baffle me - today TUIC moves from BHX to MAN wile TUIE comes up from LGW to BHX. Both appear to be scheduled on long haul flights so why not just move TUIE from LGW to MAN? It someone in the know could enlighten me because I’m genuinely intrigued as to the reasons why.

[737James]

Also looks like short haul configuration 787 aircraft G-TUID needs to go in for some maintenance as Monday’s 787 Short/midhaul flights are being operated by AirTanker A330 from BHX

They also appear to be a 738 short at BHX as well with ACMI GetJet doing some flights too

[Matt995]

Also looks like short haul configuration 787 aircraft G-TUID needs to go in for some maintenance as Monday’s 787 Short/midhaul flights are being operated by AirTanker A330 from BHX

They also appear to be a 738 short at BHX as well with ACMI GetJet doing some flights too

I think G-TUID is being pinched to operate out of Manchester in place of 767 G-OBYF which has been at Luton since the 31st May having work done on it!

[FRatSTN]

Given the operational issues and reliance on third party operators as per usual with TUI, how on earth are they going to secure an extra 1.1 million seats for Summer 24 as announced previously? Clearly just a reaction to Jet2, but how many new MAX's are they expecting to get by then to deliver a net gain to their fleet, or will it be yet again more reliance on third party operators? If the latter, I wish them good luck!

[crewmeal]

If this a sample of sub chartering then I guess many won't be using TUI for their holidays.

Freebird (https://simpleflying.com/tui-freebird-airbus-a320-too-heavy/)

[SWBKCB]

or using Simple Flying for aviation information. Why is what purports to be a specialist aviation website 'cutting and pasting' a local newspaper report with no additional insight? Click bait maybe?

[ATNotts]

or using Simple Flying for aviation information. Why is what purports to be a specialist aviation website 'cutting and pasting' a local newspaper report with no additional insight? Click bait maybe?
Absolutely! The Simple Flying journalist needs to check from where he copy and pasted that story. Makes him look a total prat.

Surely something happened and the flight was delayed but it is probably more nuanced.

[SKOJB]

Have a job to believe a 320 Turkey bound cannot lift off from a 6800ft runway. Sounds more of a technical issue instead of weight restriction!

[SealinkBF]

My pal has a flight booked with TUI from BOH to HER on 11th June.

But that date isn't bookable online or it is listed on their Timetable page (first flight showing as 18th June)

Any ideas why? If the flight is full the date should still be an option to choose. The timetable listing is worrying!

[ROC10]

My pal has a flight booked with TUI from BOH to HER on 11th June.

But that date isn't bookable online or it is listed on their Timetable page (first flight showing as 18th June)

Any ideas why? If the flight is full the date should still be an option to choose. The timetable listing is worrying!

Not sure I follow why the date should still be an option to choose if the flight is full?

My guess is that the flight is full, thus no seats available to sell, hence not shown on the timetable.

[Matt995]

My pal has a flight booked with TUI from BOH to HER on 11th June.

But that date isn't bookable online or it is listed on their Timetable page (first flight showing as 18th June)

Any ideas why? If the flight is full the date should still be an option to choose. The timetable listing is worrying!

flight has operated every sunday since the 7th May, so no issues, as mentioned, outbound flight must be fully booked.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1120x332/screenshot_2023_06_06_001715_5ced88ce1da4a7dc9f6605a51f4c393 fd90c8b8e.png

[ICEHOUSES]

Does anybody know the final withdrawal date of TUI B767 later this year, thanks

[EPRman]

The UK based 767’s are due to stop passenger flights by the end of the summer season i.e. 31st of October. They’re hanging around over winter presumably for end of lease stuff, with the last going in January.

[ICEHOUSES]

The UK based 767’s are due to stop passenger flights by the end of the summer season i.e. 31st of October. They’re hanging around over winter presumably for end of lease stuff, with the last going in January.
Thanks a lot

[SealinkBF]

Not sure I follow why the date should still be an option to choose if the flight is full?

My guess is that the flight is full, thus no seats available to sell, hence not shown on the timetable.

Most other airlines will still show the flight in their timetable listing or on an availability search show it as fully booked.

[mart901]

Most other airlines will still show the flight in their timetable listing or on an availability search show it as fully booked.

If you look on the flight tracker on the website it shows there. My flights BFS-TFS been showing that way for months.

[SWBKCB]

Most other airlines will still show the flight in their timetable listing or on an availability search show it as fully booked.

Why try and sell something that's not for sale?

[SealinkBF]

Why try and sell something that's not for sale?

So that the passenger knows it's fully booked... rather then the flight appearing to be non existent

[JonnyH]

So that the passenger knows it's fully booked... rather then the flight appearing to be non existent

They aren’t the only company that do it. BA do it. Jef2 do it on their calendar when you input their dates, it will show as no flights to select on that date, and it’s only when you look at other dates when the search has come up that you will then see the flight is full.

Nevertheless, it begs the question why a passenger would be searching their flight dates, as a new customer, instead of checking their booking to see if their flight is still operating which again is strange unless they’ve got reason to think it’s been cancelled or a relative is booking (none of which are the scenario in this case).

Your argument is probably going to go on and on but I think it’s unlikely an airline is going to have this high on their priority list to get resolved.

[USC]

We flew with Avion on a TUI flight last week - it was a bit of a shambles and left us wishing we had booked different flights with Easy instead. We were delayed at the gate by two hours as (according to the Captain) they could not get luggage handlers to load the aircraft. This was despite the luggage sitting outside of the aircraft with two handlers going through the bags looking for specific luggage. On boarding two seats were u/s (one completely missing it’s back and the one behind understandably not able to be occupied) and taped off with gaffer tape. I wonder if the delay was also down to having to offload two pax who didn’t have seats anymore?

[Vokes55]

We flew with Avion on a TUI flight last week - it was a bit of a shambles and left us wishing we had booked different flights with Easy instead

If you’d booked with Easy, your flight would probably have been cancelled and you’d be put on the next available flight three days later.

[alstaff]

We flew with Privilege Style on a Tui flight recently and would say we had a good ontime flight on a decent aircraft (Boeing 757) maybe we were fortunate but would say not all leased airlines are indifferent.

[737James]

Some strange things been going off this week at Birmingham with Tui. The based high capacity 788 G-TUID has been operating out of Amsterdam to Curaçao every day and then is doing AMS-AYT flights on Saturday.

Tui brought in AirTanker A330 to cover the 788 but that picked up some delays which ended up With Thursdays PFO being cancelled altogether as they had no crew and the aircraft is needed Friday and Saturday for Champions League flights . They have now moved another 788 to Birmingham but that is running with a constant 3hr Delay hopefully they can recover soon just seems strange that they have moved one of their own aircraft to fly out of AMS for a few days but then have to cancel UK flights as they have no aircraft

[Matt995]

Some strange things been going off this week at Birmingham with Tui. The based high capacity 788 G-TUID has been operating out of Amsterdam to Curaçao every day and then is doing AMS-AYT flights on Saturday.

Tui brought in AirTanker A330 to cover the 788 but that picked up some delays which ended up With Thursdays PFO being cancelled altogether as they had no crew and the aircraft is needed Friday and Saturday for Champions League flights . They have now moved another 788 to Birmingham but that is running with a constant 3hr Delay hopefully they can recover soon just seems strange that they have moved one of their own aircraft to fly out of AMS for a few days but then have to cancel UK flights as they have no aircraft

TUI Netherlands currently have 2 B788's out of service, one at Luton, one at Amsterdam, so presumably TUI head office in Germany decided to use a UK registered B788 as cover, as TUI UK do have a spare B789 all summer, mind you G-TUIE is currently at Prestwick having some work done on it, so a few B788s in TUI fleet are not currently in service! Not ideal!

[OltonPete]

Some strange things been going off this week at Birmingham with Tui. The based high capacity 788 G-TUID has been operating out of Amsterdam to Curaçao every day and then is doing AMS-AYT flights on Saturday.

Tui brought in AirTanker A330 to cover the 788 but that picked up some delays which ended up With Thursdays PFO being cancelled altogether as they had no crew and the aircraft is needed Friday and Saturday for Champions League flights . They have now moved another 788 to Birmingham but that is running with a constant 3hr Delay hopefully they can recover soon just seems strange that they have moved one of their own aircraft to fly out of AMS for a few days but then have to cancel UK flights as they have no aircraft

It has been an incredible couple of days. Most days there has been a spare 737 variant either all day or part of the day despite Getjet operating and flights delayed and cancelled.

The 788 Paphos flight has operated albeit around a delay of around 24 hours and on a 738 which must have been snug to say the least.

One of the recovery 787's was from Gatwick but alas it was reactionary from a Gatwick-Sal flight.

Not heard what the problem was with the Air Tanker but assume crew hours were compromised and it just night-stopped and went to Manchester this morning.

Added to this were problems at EMA with consecutive night-stops away from base leaving them short and the Getjet was sent across from BHX on Thursday and this ended up delaying BHX-AGA yesterday evening but that aircraft has since recovered although I know some unhappy pax delayed on this Friday morning as they had paid for extra legroom to be told this week, sorry change of aircraft and to boot their twilight check-in was brought forward 24 hours which is novel leaving your bags at the airport 2 nights in advance

Best laid plans eh :bored:

Pete

[ImPlaneCrazy]

Seems as though G-TUIE went tech in PUJ on 11/6 and is still stuck out there - any idea what happened?

[LiamNCL]

Positioning back to MAN now as TOM990F

[rog747]

Last nights TUI 787 BY659 CUN-BRS took off at 17.28L and then quickly returned back to CUN after dumping fuel.

G-TUIE was due to ferry empty to NCL this morning -

edit G-TUID will now ferry to NCL to operate today's NCL-CUN

edit - Flaps issue again after take off from CUN - did it the other day too at Punta Cana

[azz767]

Last nights TUI 787 BY659 CUN-BRS took off at 17.28L and then quickly returned back to CUN after dumping fuel.

G-TUIE was due to ferry empty to NCL this morning -

edit G-TUID will now ferry to NCL to operate today's NCL-CUN

edit - Flaps issue after take off from CUN.

that’ll be a nice treat for anyone that booked premium economy!

[rog747]

No sign yet of an ACMI wide body 'sub' flying out to Cancun for their collection to get them back to Bristol...

TUI UK have 3 or 4 flights going there from the UK today - maybe some Engineers and parts being flown out>?

[Vokes55]

that’ll be a nice treat for anyone that booked premium economy!

Better than just canceling the flight like every other airline would.

[rog747]

Better than just canceling the flight like every other airline would.

It's a package holiday flight, most of which almost never ever get cancelled outright, as the Tour operator, (TUI Travel here) not just the airline, has to get their folks home...

[Vokes55]

It's a package holiday flight, most of which almost never ever get cancelled outright, as the Tour operator, (TUI Travel here) not just the airline, has to get their folks home...

BA and easyJet do a fairly good job of cancelling flights and leaving their customers, including those on package holidays, abroad until the next available flight, which is often days later.

My point was that if you asked those passengers whether they’d like to depart on time but there would be no premium cabin onboard, undoubtedly 100% would say yes. Aircraft swaps happen all the time across all airlines, often a few people miss out on their preferred seats/cabin. It’s an almost irrelevant point.

[Big Tudor]

. Aircraft swaps happen all the time across all airlines, often a few people miss out on their preferred seats/cabin. It’s an almost irrelevant point.

The big issue in these cases is often how the airline handles those who have missed out on pre-booked / paid for seats. A simple conversation prior to boarding to explain the situation will often (not always) appease those affected. A lot of airlines seem afraid to confront these situations and leave it to the crew to resolve, often having to calm irate passengers.

[simonwa]

No sign yet of an ACMI wide body 'sub' flying out to Cancun for their collection to get them back to Bristol...

TUI UK have 3 or 4 flights going there from the UK today - maybe some Engineers and parts being flown out>?

Looks like G-TUIF is on its way now from Gatwick to Cancun to pick up the Bristol passengers. Estimating 21:38 arrival.

[oldart]

Looks like G-TUIF is on its way now from Gatwick to Cancun to pick up the Bristol passengers. Estimating 21:38 arrival.
Returning to Manchester?

[rog747]

Returning to Manchester?

Yes, seems so, and then coaches for the pax onwards to BRS (Oh the Joy----> Not)

[rog747]

BA and easyJet do a fairly good job of cancelling flights and leaving their customers, including those on package holidays, abroad until the next available flight, which is often days later.


BA Holidays and EasyJet Holidays are not as such, the ''old-fashioned package holiday'' firms like that TUI sells with a charter flight series, hence you are quite correct in saying that both BA and EZY pax on holidays who get affected by those airline's operational issues and/or cancelled flights, are not always looked after in the same way as you would be with say TUI, Sunvil, Balkan Holidays, and Mark Warner Package Holiday who still charter and control their own flights/holiday packages.

[VickersVicount]

with it clear now Sunwing airline division being dissolved by WJ next year, wonder if TUI arrangement will continue with WJ aircraft or if it will be more SmartLynx etc?

[JonnyH]

with it clear now Sunwing airline division being dissolved by WJ next year, wonder if TUI arrangement will continue with WJ aircraft or if it will be more SmartLynx etc?

It will be interesting. Sunwing have been a nightmare and were supposed to be gone this year for TUI, so I think they’ll definitely be gone in 2024. It’ll be really tricky for TUI.

S23 is already looking like it is going to be a nightmare. The Aberdeen Sunwing based aircraft is constantly delayed/cancelled (today included).

TUI have to be haemorrhaging money again.

[Markushillman]

It will be interesting. Sunwing have been a nightmare and were supposed to be gone this year for TUI, so I think they’ll definitely be gone in 2024. It’ll be really tricky for TUI.

S23 is already looking like it is going to be a nightmare. The Aberdeen Sunwing based aircraft is constantly delayed/cancelled (today included).

TUI have to be haemorrhaging money again.

Certainly won't be any more Sunwing after this year. I would imagine it will be more Smartlynx to fill the summer bases of ABZ, NWI and so on

[Apron Artist]

Certainly won't be any more Sunwing after this year. I would imagine it will be more Smartlynx to fill the summer bases of ABZ, NWI and so on


Having suffered Smartynx at Gatwick last year, I'm not convinced that that is actually a step in the right direction.

[Matt995]

It will be interesting. Sunwing have been a nightmare and were supposed to be gone this year for TUI, so I think they’ll definitely be gone in 2024. It’ll be really tricky for TUI.

S23 is already looking like it is going to be a nightmare. The Aberdeen Sunwing based aircraft is constantly delayed/cancelled (today included).

TUI have to be haemorrhaging money again.

Well next year TUI arn't basing an aircraft at Aberdeen. I believe the Cardiff based Sunwing aircraft next year will now be an A320, so SmartLynx or Avion Express. The 2 Sunwing aircraft at Birmingham this summer havent had any major problems they actually seem more reliable than the TUI based 738s!

BHX today have had the short haul 788 parked up all day, and hence the Malaga & Larnaca flight have been split on 2 738s, one TUI, one GetJet. Also 1 other GetJet 738 has now operating for TUI from BHX for over 2 weeks, despite at one stage TUI having 2 738's parked up.

I can only presume TUI are woefully short of flight crew or cabin crew at BHX? Anyone have any confirmation of this?

[LGS6753]

Jethro's excellent website notes that TUI withdrew a 738 (TAWR) in Feb 23, and it has now been registered to Sun Country in the US. A further example has recently gone to Transavia.
Although there may be another explanation (like lease ending) it does seem odd to be withdrawing aircraft in the early months of the year only to replace them with leased equipment weeks later.
It just adds to the impression that TUI have lost the plot!

[Charley B]

Many different aircraft being leased for them at LGW too,noticed that over the last few weeks ,both for short and long haul..an Air Tanker 330 has been here for a few days doing mainly short haul,amongst others ,think that is returning to its base tomorrow..Tui seem to be forever shunting their 787 around between bases

[ROC10]

More perplexing 787 movements today…

G-TUIH (LH config) had been operating as the GLA-based 787 for a while but, on Sunday morning, after arriving from CUN, it positioned to MAN. It sat on the ground at MAN all day on Sunday and is now (according to FR24) due to position back up to GLA on Monday morning.

Meanwhile, G-TUID (SH config but has been operating LH for the last few days) positioned NCL-GLA on Sunday morning to operate GLA-CUN-BHX, and FR24 is showing it’s due to position to LGW on Monday morning.

Further, G-TUIA, which had been at PIK for a few days, positioned PIK-NCL on Sunday morning to operate NCL-MLB-NCL.

So not only do we have 787s positioning around all over the place, we also have SH aircraft flying LH routes while LH aircraft sit on the ground. One has to believe there must be at least some reasoning behind all of this but I would love to hear what that is.

[SJL26779]

Aberdeen to Tenerife looks like it's non operational?
Air Tanker operating PFO-LGW is still on the ground in PFO with an estimated departure time of 11.15am on Monday instead of 14.40 Sunday and BFS-TFS is now being operated by Getjet Monday instead of Sunday?

Anyone know any more?

[jethro15]

This is what I have as of 20 Jun

TUI Airways Leased Aircraft (jethroseu.co.uk) (https://www.jethroseu.co.uk/fleets/fleet_listings/tui_airways_leased_aircraft.htm)

Corrections / additions / deletions would be appreciated.

[Matt995]

TUI's planned summer timetable (based on August 2023) needs a total of 74 aircraft, but TUI Airways actual current fleet consists of 62 aircraft (will be 63 shortly)

the leased in aircraft for summer should be 15, 7 Sunwing 738's, 4 Avion Express A320's, 2 Titan A320's & 2 Smartlynx A320's

The bases should be:-

ABZ 1 B738, Sunwing
BFS 1 B738, Sunwing
BHX 1 B789, 2 B788's, 3 B7M8's, 3 B738s, & 2 B738's, Sunwing
BOH 1 B738
BRS 5 B7M8's
CWL 2 B738's, 1 B738, Sunwing
DUB 2 A320's, Avion Express
EMA 4 B738's, 1 B738, Sunwing
EXT 1 B738
GLA 2 B7M8's
GLA/NCL 1 B788 shared
LGW 2 B789's, 1 B788's, 3 B7M8's, 6 B738's, 1 A320, Titan, 2 A320's, Avion Express
LTN 1 B738
MAN 2 B789's, 2 B788's, 2 B763's, 3 B7M8's, 5 B738's, 2 A320's, Smartlynx
NCL 2 B7M8's, 2 B738's
NWI 1 B738, Sunwing
STN 1 B738, 1 A320, Titan

Spare TUI Aircraft, 2 B738, 1 B789 - They also have another B738 to join the fleet shortly, G-FDZR again, to help them out

So all the extra aircraft being used, GetJet, AirTanker, SmartLynx etc should only be short term cover, but again does it come down to TUI, not having another flight crew & cabin crew to cope with all these flights? After last year, I would have expected them to be better prepared

[Charley B]

Aberdeen to Tenerife looks like it's non operational?
Air Tanker operating PFO-LGW is still on the ground in PFO with an estimated departure time of 11.15am on Monday instead of 14.40 Sunday and BFS-TFS is now being operated by Getjet Monday instead of Sunday?

Anyone know any more?
Air Tanker left LGW 3.5 hrs late on Sunday morning for PFO and crew ran out of hours ..read on Twitter that pax were being put in hotels and flight due back at lunchtime today …G-VGYK I think will then return to BZZ

[Vokes55]

Probably the same reason there were 112 cancelled flights into or out of LGW yesterday. Flow restrictions in the UK due to weather.

As soon as flow restrictions are imposed, scheduled airlines cancel flights and start fresh the next day with crew and aircraft in the right place, but thousands of passengers inconvenienced. EasyJet can say they’re all weather related cancellations, no compensation is due, book yourself onto the next available flight.

TUI delay the flight instead of cancelling which can cause a knock on to the next day/s. So you see delays and sub charters.

I’m not sure what the PPrune experts suggest they do otherwise?

[JonnyH]

TUI's planned summer timetable (based on August 2023) needs a total of 74 aircraft, but TUI Airways actual current fleet consists of 62 aircraft (will be 63 shortly)

the leased in aircraft for summer should be 15, 7 Sunwing 738's, 4 Avion Express A320's, 2 Titan A320's & 2 Smartlynx A320's

The bases should be:-

ABZ 1 B738, Sunwing
BFS 1 B738, Sunwing
BHX 1 B789, 2 B788's, 3 B7M8's, 3 B738s, & 2 B738's, Sunwing
BOH 1 B738
BRS 5 B7M8's
CWL 2 B738's, 1 B738, Sunwing
DUB 2 A320's, Avion Express
EMA 4 B738's, 1 B738, Sunwing
EXT 1 B738
GLA 2 B7M8's
GLA/NCL 1 B788 shared
LGW 2 B789's, 1 B788's, 3 B7M8's, 6 B738's, 1 A320, Titan, 2 A320's, Avion Express
LTN 1 B738
MAN 2 B789's, 2 B788's, 2 B763's, 3 B7M8's, 5 B738's, 2 A320's, Smartlynx
NCL 2 B7M8's, 2 B738's
NWI 1 B738, Sunwing
STN 1 B738, 1 A320, Titan

Spare TUI Aircraft, 2 B738, 1 B789 - They also have another B738 to join the fleet shortly, G-FDZR again, to help them out

So all the extra aircraft being used, GetJet, AirTanker, SmartLynx etc should only be short term cover, but again does it come down to TUI, not having another flight crew & cabin crew to cope with all these flights? After last year, I would have expected them to be better prepared

ABZ was a tech delay initially, tyre replacement apparently, before crew ran out of hours. Rescheduled for this afternoon.

[JonnyH]

Probably the same reason there were 112 cancelled flights into or out of LGW yesterday. Flow restrictions in the UK due to weather.

As soon as flow restrictions are imposed, scheduled airlines cancel flights and start fresh the next day with crew and aircraft in the right place, but thousands of passengers inconvenienced. EasyJet can say they’re all weather related cancellations, no compensation is due, book yourself onto the next available flight.

TUI delay the flight instead of cancelling which can cause a knock on to the next day/s. So you see delays and sub charters.

I’m not sure what the PPrune experts suggest they do otherwise?

I think you’re looking at this with rose tinted glasses. LGW is not the only base in the UK quite clearly. NCL has had 5 3+ hour delayed flights
this weekend, BFS and ABZ both overnight delays and that’s without factoring in other bases.

Let’s be honest, early signs are they’ve learnt nothing from 2022, and if you’re a consumer you’re hardly going to be encouraged.

Someone has pointed out their shortfall in aircraft which will only get worse throughout the summer and then next year when their awful Sunwing partnership ends and they get rid of the 767s.

[Vokes55]

Flow management affects the entire airspace where adverse weather is expected, which yesterday was more or less the entire UK and most of northern France.

But you’re right, other airlines had mass cancellations from other U.K. airports too.

[SWBKCB]

As soon as flow restrictions are imposed, scheduled airlines cancel flights and start fresh the next day with crew and aircraft in the right place, but thousands of passengers inconvenienced. EasyJet can say they’re all weather related cancellations, no compensation is due, book yourself onto the next available flight.



Having been a victim of this I've had it confirmed via relatives working within the airline, that this is exactly the way EasyJet work. Take the hit 'due to the weather' and preserve the next days schedule.

[Vokes55]

Having been a victim of this I've had it confirmed via relatives working within the airline, that this is exactly the way EasyJet work. Take the hit 'due to the weather' and preserve the next days schedule.

They, and Ryanair, have been doing it for years. Whenever there’s a reason to cancel whereby no compensation is due - strike action is another one - cancel as many flights as possible. Keep aircraft and crew in base, preserve crew hours in the Summer peak.

The way EU/UK261 works means that any knock on delay the following day cannot be blamed on weather - it’s seen as the airline’s responsibility to have enough standby crew and aircraft available.

If TUI delay a flight to the next day for any reason, they need an extra aircraft and crew to operate it without impacting that day’s schedule. So that’s why you’ll see a subcharter operating many of them - nothing to do with an aircraft or crew shortage.

[JonnyH]

They, and Ryanair, have been doing it for years. Whenever there’s a reason to cancel whereby no compensation is due - strike action is another one - cancel as many flights as possible. Keep aircraft and crew in base, preserve crew hours in the Summer peak.

The way EU/UK261 works means that any knock on delay the following day cannot be blamed on weather - it’s seen as the airline’s responsibility to have enough standby crew and aircraft available.

If TUI delay a flight to the next day for any reason, they need an extra aircraft and crew to operate it without impacting that day’s schedule. So that’s why you’ll see a subcharter operating many of them - nothing to do with an aircraft or crew shortage.

You’re talking about one day. What about the other 17 dry days this month?

[Vokes55]

You’re talking about one day. What about the other 17 dry days this month?

What about them?

[JonnyH]

What about them?

You know fine well what I mean. You mentioned flow management and other airlines cancelling. Clearly, LGW was. But BFS and ABZ were not.

Asides from one day anyways, why can’t you just accept that Summer 23, so far, has been no different to last year and it’s a complete mess again? I don’t expect you to bash your employer but you could at least be honest.

[OliTom]

TUI senior management haven't learnt anything from Summer 2022. Same mistakes being made this year, over reliance on brand damaging third party and demotivated and often ignored workforce.

Good luck all.

[Vokes55]

You know fine well what I mean. You mentioned flow management and other airlines cancelling. Clearly, LGW was. But BFS and ABZ were not.

Asides from one day anyways, why can’t you just accept that Summer 23, so far, has been no different to last year and it’s a complete mess again? I don’t expect you to bash your employer but you could at least be honest.


A little geography lesson might show you that anything that flies from BFS or ABZ to the majority of Europe would overfly the rest of the UK and/or Northern France, that was subject to flow management. I don’t expect you to have any knowledge of FTLs so I won’t waste my time touching on that issue either.

Do humour me, what’s been a “complete mess” this year? And please use facts and statistics. Tell me how many TUI passengers have been delayed over three hours this Summer as a percentage of the total and in comparison to both other airlines and last year?

[chaps1954]

I don`t think TUI have shone very well this summer at either MAN or BHX with many subs at both stations

[JonnyH]

A little geography lesson might show you that anything that flies from BFS or ABZ to the majority of Europe would overfly the rest of the UK and/or Northern France, that was subject to flow management. I don’t expect you to have any knowledge of FTLs so I won’t waste my time touching on that issue either.

Do humour me, what’s been a “complete mess” this year? And please use facts and statistics. Tell me how many TUI passengers have been delayed over three hours this Summer as a percentage of the total and in comparison to both other airlines and last year?

Oh! The same area that their major leisure competitor also flies over who had far less disruption? It’s easy to push a narrative for one day but when you’ve been absolute sh*te since the summer began, it’s far less easy to argue

You keep going back to the one day of bad weather we have had this month to push your agenda that TUI are reliable. They aren’t. They’re awful. You can compare to FR or EZY but this is a TUI thread.

The thread has numerous comments providing issues, delays etc. If you want an example maybe have a look at Aberdeen. It’ll be easier to spot the flights this month that were delayed rather than on time though.

If you are arguing that they don’t have a dependence on third parties and customer satisfaction is good, you’re on a different planet. You’re the one that clearly needs humoured unfortunately given C-GBZS, that was delayed due to bad weather according to you, is currently still on the ground in BFS after being due to operate this morning.

MAN, BHX, ABZ, BFS all terrible. NCL awful the latter part of this week.

[Vokes55]

As expected, not a single fact or statistic.

That competitor you speak about had four 3+ hour delays (LS948, 984, 898 and 172) into Manchester in the last 24 hours, compared to just two for TUI (TOM2731 and 2751) - including one almost 24 hour delay (LS984 from BJV).

Facts and statistics don’t seem to support your narrative.

[737James]

As others have mentioned some strange operations at Birmingham this Summer season like planned 787 flights being a split onto two 738s one of which is ACMI aircraft when the 787 is sitting on the ground serviceable . Similar things happening with 738s with Tui tailed aircraft sitting on the ground but then using GetJet for 4 flights a day often for the longer Cyprus and Turkey routes.

I can only assume they have some crewing issues at Birmingham this year and are struggling to Crew all the flights

[JonnyH]

As expected, not a single fact or statistic.

That competitor you speak about had four 3+ hour delays (LS948, 984, 898 and 172) into Manchester in the last 24 hours, compared to just two for TUI (TOM2731 and 2751) - including one almost 24 hour delay (LS984 from BJV).

Facts and statistics don’t seem to support your narrative.

You’re using one airport. The one that fits your narrative. Here is multiple airports that aren’t even weather related in the last 24 hours.

ABZ - TFS flight delayed by 24 hours. Not weather related.
BFS - TFS flight delayed by 24 hours. Not weather related. DLM flight delayed (currently 5 hours). Not weather related.
NCL - AYT. Flight delayed by 15 hours. Not weather related.
LGW-PFO - not weather related. G-VYGK subbed in.

Add this to countless other delays over the month. Aberdeen, for example, is on time less than a third of the time. TUI had a 60% chance of delay last summer and I’d be surprised if it’s any lower this summer.

I’ll put some stats together in due course for this month overall.

As others have mentioned, there are issues with crew. Tech issues and no aircraft or crew to move around.

[speed13ird]

IMHO, the IT/Charter business model hasn't really evolved sufficiently since it's heyday in the 1970s in order to cope with the current demand for airspace capacity. Having a large number of assets all flying the same route from the UK regions within a couple of hours of each other on change over day hardly helps with flow management.

[FRatSTN]

Vokes55

In fairness to JonnyH, such statistics are not readily published for public viewing. Unless he has inside knowledge and access to that data, in any case he's unlikely to want to share it here. Likewise taking a few sample flights from one day that we know had wider network issues is hardly representative to your argument either.

It can't go unnoticed TUI have operational issues this summer with some of their third party operators. My biggest question is still how on earth they expect to deliver 1.1 million extra seats next summer. Will they be getting that many new aircraft and crew by then, or more reliance on third parties?

[Vokes55]

I’ve never denied there are issues, but this notion that they’re somehow worse than other airlines is pure fallacy based largely on emotive opinion with a sprinkling of anecdotal evidence.

My point is that all airlines have issues because all airlines share the same congested airspace and the same congested airports. They fly the same aircraft which suffer the same technical problems and face the same parts shortages. They’re bound by the same FTLs. You’ll see long delays with TUI because they delay instead of cancelling. They remain at the top of departure and arrival boards long after the cancelled flights have been wiped off. And for some reason, completely unbeknown to me, they seem to have a loyal following of spotters on pprune with nothing better to do than tracking the location of every single aircraft and posting here whenever one does something unexpected.

In the real world, away from the echo chambers of Twitter and Pprune, the number of delayed flights and dissatisfied customers is a tiny percentage of the total and certainly nowhere near last year. Probably something that can be said about all operators.

And yes, Jet2 have delays too. Plenty of them.

[JonnyH]

I’ve never denied there are issues, but this notion that they’re somehow worse than other airlines is pure fallacy based largely on emotive opinion with a sprinkling of anecdotal evidence.

My point is that all airlines have issues because all airlines share the same congested airspace and the same congested airports. They fly the same aircraft which suffer the same technical problems and face the same parts shortages. They’re bound by the same FTLs. You’ll see long delays with TUI because they delay instead of cancelling. They remain at the top of departure and arrival boards long after the cancelled flights have been wiped off. And for some reason, completely unbeknown to me, they seem to have a loyal following of spotters on pprune with nothing better to do than tracking the location of every single aircraft and posting here whenever one does something unexpected.

In the real world, away from the echo chambers of Twitter and Pprune, the number of delayed flights and dissatisfied customers is a tiny percentage of the total and certainly nowhere near last year. Probably something that can be said about all operators.

And yes, Jet2 have delays too. Plenty of them.

I absolutely respect your opinion and I agree that other airlines have problems - they all have dissatisfied customers, crew issues, tech issues, system issues etc.

The point is still valid, however, that they have got all of these plans for 2024 and beyond yet 2022 and the start of Summer 2023 have been shambolic and they’re suffering the same serious issues which do not seem to be improving and they do not have a resolution to these problems either clearly. Many of these issues are not being felt by their competitors and if they are, they’re not where near as bad as they are for TUI.

FWIW, irrelevant of cost, they should be keeping their two 767s in service after this summer.

[kmw63]

Anyone who has access to the Airport Community app and can see performance at (e.g.) Manchester can easily compare the two and see that even though Jet2 have their share of delays, they're consistently outperforming TUI in OTD terms.

[TOM100]

Anyone who has access to the Airport Community app and can see performance at (e.g.) Manchester can easily compare the two and see that even though Jet2 have their share of delays, they're consistently outperforming TUI in OTD terms.

Despite my username I have no connection to Tui - I have flown three times this Summer, twice with Jet2 and once with Tui (sadly with the experience of a shed of a Sunwing a/c interior). My Tui flight was delayed 90 mins (no big deal). I will frankly now always pick Jet2 over Tui as my confidence in them handling things right when things go wrong is because of the sheer number of their own people they have at U.K. airports.

I also believe throughout my dealings with them they have a real strong customer service culture embedded, something I sadly believe Tui (not just the airline) have lost and it takes time to rebuild that culture.

[ATNE]

You’re using one airport. The one that fits your narrative. Here is multiple airports that aren’t even weather related in the last 24 hours.

ABZ - TFS flight delayed by 24 hours. Not weather related.
BFS - TFS flight delayed by 24 hours. Not weather related. DLM flight delayed (currently 5 hours). Not weather related.
NCL - AYT. Flight delayed by 15 hours. Not weather related.
LGW-PFO - not weather related. G-VYGK subbed in.

Add this to countless other delays over the month. Aberdeen, for example, is on time less than a third of the time. TUI had a 60% chance of delay last summer and I’d be surprised if it’s any lower this summer.

I’ll put some stats together in due course for this month overall.

As others have mentioned, there are issues with crew. Tech issues and no aircraft or crew to move around.

Don't forget the NCL-EFL which was delayed by 24 hours due to the lack of spare aircraft on 1st June.

[chaps1954]

A guy I work with would only fly TUI until he tried Jet2 because TUI cancelled the flight and now will never fly with them again

[planedrive]

Anyone who has access to the Airport Community app and can see performance at (e.g.) Manchester can easily compare the two and see that even though Jet2 have their share of delays, they're consistently outperforming TUI in OTD terms.

Oh yes great figures, super performance by Jet2 :rolleyes:...

Today at Manchester: Tui OTD 35%, Jet2 38% - such a massive difference!!

[pamann]

A guy I work with would only fly TUI until he tried Jet2 because TUI cancelled the flight and now will never fly with them again

Everyone says this until next year.
When that airline ‘you’ll never fly with’ just happens to be cheaper.