TUI airways-2

[GBYAJ]

There is never a "based aircraft", it won'y stay in one base for the whole summer, or even a month!

They can be exchanged downroute where the crews will swop onto the other one, or they are just ferried (empty) where they might be needed.

There are various reasons why they keep changing, but the concept of a 1 airframe being based at any TUI airport has never been the truth and never will be.

id been waiting for that comment thanks! Historically TUI will “station’ aircraft at NCL for periods of longer than a month. Arguably TUMO was based at Newcastle for around two
months until it swapped last week. There is always going to be a swap with TUI but surely until a swap takes place the aircraft that leaves NCL
in the morning and returns in the evening is “based”. The dictionary may not help with a definition of based in this context! .

[LBAflyer22]

There is never a "based aircraft", it won't stay in one base for the whole summer, or even a month!

They can be exchanged downroute where the crews will swop onto the other one, or they are just ferried (empty) where they might be needed.

There are various reasons why they keep changing, but the concept of a 1 airframe being based at any TUI airport has never been the truth and never will be.

There usually is "based" aircraft at certain bases for all airlines (well it's pretty obvious for BA/Virgin).

The reasons they'd swap out is for, as I've stated, maintenance that cannot be performed a the base due facilities (Usually akin to a car service check) and maybe where they need to clear a defect but again would rather do it in a base that has facilities to in case of grounding.

I'm not that ofay with TUI fleet and where they are based, but when Jet2 had the 757 split fleet, AG/AC/AE were predominately MAN based with AK/AB/AJ been LBA based. AA/AD/AI/AH/AN would swap between both bases would AH would be seen more in LBA then MAN and AD the other way round. It was only really AA/AI that would flick properly between the two.

[SALENO]

Only just received today formal notification of change of aircraft for our inbound to Smartlynx A321. Fortunately pickled it up several weeks ago and was able to sort seats out again. Email stated will be operated with TUI cabin crew.
Just noted on our eTicket issued today return flight aircraft type on the 3 Jun now changed for the 4th time and now showing B757 (Privileged?? ) yet when you log onto my booking on the TUI site still showing A321 hence cant sort the pre booked extra leg seats etc. It took a few weeks for TUI to update last time which isn't great. Certainly a bit of juggling going on still. So maybe in answer to some previous queries on leased aircraft TUI for this summer, perhaps not having a A321 at Manchester?

[Smudge's Lot]

There usually is "based" aircraft at certain bases for all airlines (well it's pretty obvious for BA/Virgin).

The reasons they'd swap out is for, as I've stated, maintenance that cannot be performed a the base due facilities (Usually akin to a car service check) and maybe where they need to clear a defect but again would rather do it in a base that has facilities to in case of grounding.

I'm not that ofay with TUI fleet and where they are based, but when Jet2 had the 757 split fleet, AG/AC/AE were predominately MAN based with AK/AB/AJ been LBA based. AA/AD/AI/AH/AN would swap between both bases would AH would be seen more in LBA then MAN and AD the other way round. It was only really AA/AI that would flick properly between the two.

Of course its obvious for BA/Virgin, who have 1 main base (LHR)
The TUI fleet of approx 65 airframes has approx 13 UK bases so the airframes are rotated around all those bases, as has been said, for maintenance/lease costs etc.
I am based at LGW on the 787 and never fly the same airframe every week......

[Matt995]

Just noted on our eTicket issued today return flight aircraft type on the 3 Jun now changed for the 4th time and now showing B757 (Privileged?? ) yet when you log onto my booking on the TUI site still showing A321 hence cant sort the pre booked extra leg seats etc. It took a few weeks for TUI to update last time which isn't great. Certainly a bit of juggling going on still. So maybe in answer to some previous queries on leased aircraft TUI for this summer, perhaps not having a A321 at Manchester?

TUI are showing a SmartLynx A321 based a Manchester, but the issue is SmartLynx's 4 passenger A321s are all operating from BHX for Jet2, so unless they plan to very quickly get their hands on a second hand A321 from somewhere, its not going to happen. So maybe more sub charters, or a downgrade to a SmartLynx A320?

Meanwhile at Gatwick them are meant to be leasing 2 A321's from AvionExpress Malta next week, but guess what, all their A321s are currently subleased to other airlines!!! Do TUI actually know what they are doing?? It must be keeping the TUI planning dept on their toes!!!

[SJL26779]

TUI are showing a SmartLynx A321 based a Manchester, but the issue is SmartLynx's 4 passenger A321s are all operating from BHX for Jet2, so unless they plan to very quickly get their hands on a second hand A321 from somewhere, its not going to happen. So maybe more sub charters, or a downgrade to a SmartLynx A320?

Meanwhile at Gatwick them are meant to be leasing 2 A321's from AvionExpress Malta next week, but guess what, all their A321s are currently subleased to other airlines!!! Do TUI actually know what they are doing?? It must be keeping the TUI planning dept on their toes!!!

NEOS 789 operating today's LGW-PFO flight for TUI using AC EI-XIN.

TUI must be seriously short of their own AC this summer with all the extra AC being used from various airlines

[WHBM]

TUI must be seriously short of their own AC this summer with all the extra AC being used from various airlines
But this was ever the way with traditional IT holiday flight operators which were "captive" to a tour operator. TUI's forbear, Thomson, would use their own Britannia Airways aircraft to the extent practical, but then charter in from various operators, whether UK or resort based (Spantax, Transeuropa, that lot) to add to their capacity where required. They were often not advertised as such in the holiday brochures, it was only apparent on ticketing.

[Wrightyboy]

What is wrong with the Sunwings? See both Tenerife flights from Norwich and Aberdeen are cancelled tonight

[Romac]

I see the Dublin flight to Zakynthos was cancelled this afternoon too. Any ideas what the cause was?

[NickBarnes]

What is wrong with the Sunwings? See both Tenerife flights from Norwich and Aberdeen are cancelled tonight

I believe tech, Dalaman also effected today unfortunately from NWI, hopefully get things back up and running soon

[SJL26779]

But this was ever the way with traditional IT holiday flight operators which were "captive" to a tour operator. TUI's forbear, Thomson, would use their own Britannia Airways aircraft to the extent practical, but then charter in from various operators, whether UK or resort based (Spantax, Transeuropa, that lot) to add to their capacity where required. They were often not advertised as such in the holiday brochures, it was only apparent on ticketing.

I get that but most of these AC being brought in don't seem to be planned. For example there was a wamos A330 in BFS yesterday operating for TUI and today there is a Privelege Style A321 on it's way to DUB now and a Privelege style 767 scheduled to op today's TUI tenerife flight from LGW?

Neither of these were planned as far as I am aware? Unless anyone else knows otherwise?

[WestofEMA]

It seems TUI are having problems with the 788's as well. Two out of the last 3 weeks has seen the BHX - SID flight be delayed for 26 hours.

[ATNotts]

Sounds as though the "Flymaybe" epithet may have moved to TUI from the (former) business for which it was originally coined.

Of course that's nonsense, and the majority of TUI flights are operating to schedule, or very close to it.

[Nightstop]

What is wrong with the Sunwings? See both Tenerife flights from Norwich and Aberdeen are cancelled tonight

NWI to TFS 22nd May was cancelled due lack of a cabin manager for the flight, I heard.

[NickBarnes]

NWI to TFS 22nd May was cancelled due lack of a cabin manager for the flight, I heard.

Oh really seems very unfortunate then and considering they couldn't find one for todays flight either then. Seems they are really stretched at the minute staffing wise if thats the case, although I know that's the same for a lot of airlines

[MARK 101]

Whilst its true all airlines are having staffing issues it does seem TUI are suffering more than most.
Interestingly I am aware of a number of staff working for other airlines who were with TUI pre pandemic. it may obviously work the other way as well but TUI do seem to have lost a lot of decent staff for some reason .
Its also noticeable that while all the sub chartering is going on using other airlines there are a number of TUI aircraft inactive. BHX for example has a Sunwing ex TUI 737 arrived back from Canada which hasnt moved for about 5 days whilst they are using Air Tanker and Neos amongst others to cover delays,
Hopefully now we are getting in to main season these issues will start to settle, but the brand image is definitely suffering at the moment

[SJL26779]

I believe tech, Dalaman also effected today unfortunately from NWI, hopefully get things back up and running soon

Dalaman estimated time of Departure is 18.00 11 hours 10 minutes late

[Vokes55]

Whilst its true all airlines are having staffing issues it does seem TUI are suffering more than most.


Are they? EZY had 10 cancellations out of LGW alone yesterday, plus at least four 3+ hour delays. Today they've cancelled another 15 flights already out of LGW. Wizz UK only managed one flight out of LGW yesterday with less than an hour's delay, and the TLV had to night stop down route for the fifth time this month. The number of BA cancellations across the season are well publicised.

The only difference is that the PPrune spotters are only interested in TUI delays.

[NickBarnes]

Dalaman estimated time of Departure is 18.00 11 hours 10 minutes late

Ouch, think yesterdays TFS from NWI were hoteled over night and then bused down to Gatwick at 5:00am this morning

[SJL26779]

Dalaman estimated time of Departure is 18.00 11 hours 10 minutes late

Now showing TOM582 ESTIMATED 21:00

[SJL26779]

Smartwings 738 operating for TUI in Bristol today too and also one extra Privelege Style 757 is en route to Stansted and is due to position to Manchester tonight to operate for TUI possibly from tomorrow.

[davidjohnson6]

Is there a way for non-employees to see which airline's aircraft will be used for which of TUI's flights ?
FR24 shows aircraft allocations typically no more than 24h in advance. I know one can look back in FR24 history to find patterns of regular use, but that technique doesn't work very well at the start of summer.
And preferably without having to compare seatmaps - there are too many oddball aircraft in TUI's fleet this summer for this approach to really work, particularly when you allow for potential substitution of (for example) TUI Germany owned, wet- and dry-leased aircraft to operate a TUI UK flight from the UK to Spain

[SJL26779]

What is wrong with the Sunwings? See both Tenerife flights from Norwich and Aberdeen are cancelled tonight


Yesterday's Aberdeen Tenerife has been operated by Smartwings earlier today from Glasgow on behalf of TUI. It has just landed in Tenerife using AC OK-TVM

[Big Tudor]

Are they? EZY had 10 cancellations out of LGW alone yesterday, plus at least four 3+ hour delays. Today they've cancelled another 15 flights already out of LGW. Wizz UK only managed one flight out of LGW yesterday with less than an hour's delay, and the TLV had to night stop down route for the fifth time this month. The number of BA cancellations across the season are well publicised.

The only difference is that the PPrune spotters are only interested in TUI delays.

Maybe because this thread is about TUI Airways. EZY, BA, et al have the ultimate get-out clause in that they can cancel and rebook passengers onto other flights, or reimburse. The nature of TUI's business means this is not an option hence the need to run with the delay unless alternative equipment/crew can be sourced, often at great expense. The restart of operations for Summer 2022 has not been easy for any airline and the long term effects will not be known fully for some time. We are in for a roller coaster ride over the coming months and (dare I say it) years.

[SJL26779]

Is there a way for non-employees to see which airline's aircraft will be used for which of TUI's flights ?
FR24 shows aircraft allocations typically no more than 24h in advance. I know one can look back in FR24 history to find patterns of regular use, but that technique doesn't work very well at the start of summer.
And preferably without having to compare seatmaps - there are too many oddball aircraft in TUI's fleet this summer for this approach to really work, particularly when you allow for potential substitution of (for example) TUI Germany owned, wet- and dry-leased aircraft to operate a TUI UK flight from the UK to Spain

No not really. Hence the sudden sub charters today using Privelege Style. None of which were planned that I know of. One was yesterday's Dublin to Zaynthos using an A321 which was cancelled, and another was Tenerife from Gatwick using a 767 which may have also included some of the delayed Norwich passengers from yesterday's cancelled Sunwing flight.

[NickBarnes]

Now showing TOM582 ESTIMATED 21:00

Yes looks to be a bit of a night flight tonight with the arrival showing at 24 May 06:10 in the morning.

[SWBKCB]

Many years ago I was told by somebody in Britannia planning that you sell the seats first and then worry about what will do the flying later. There were three sources - your basic BY fleet, third party a/c leased in for the season (back in the day the likes of Air Florida and Quebecair, nowadays Sunwings and the east eiuropeans) and third part a/c doing specific flights on a season long basis (as described by WHBM at #507).

Certainly in the regions, the fleets doing short haul sun flights were relatively stable with the same a/c operating from the same airport for weeks/months at a time until they needed to be rotated for maintenance/fleet balancing purposes as described by Smudge and LBAflyer in previous posts.

Of course that's the plan - but as we know, things quite often "turn to sh*t" (a technical phrase...) and you start robbing Peter to pay Paul to keep things moving and a/c will be switched around to try and keep the schedule on track - the last resort will be subbing in at short notice third party carriers to operate specific flights.

This year seems to have got off to particularly difficult start, with far more switching around of the basic TUI fleet between UK bases and subbing in of third parties to cover specific flights. Seems to be several possible causes - all or some of: season long leases falling through, delays affecting getting the BY fleet back to capacity (e.g. the returning SWG leases) and staffing issues. Hopefully things will settle down as the season develops.

[WHBM]

Maybe because this thread is about TUI Airways. EZY, BA, et al have the ultimate get-out clause in that they can cancel and rebook passengers onto other flights, or reimburse. The nature of TUI's business means this is not an option hence the need to run with the delay unless alternative equipment/crew can be sourced, often at great expense. .
Although a "subcharter" for a single specific flight may indeed appear a great expense, if only because they sometimes have to position to and fro halfway across Europe, and if nobody else is available they know they have you by the short-and-curlies, it can still be your cheapest approach compared to having spare aircraft and crew capacity throught the season, which only rarely gets used. Any decent operations accountant knows the relative numbers and the most efficient way to go.

I'm not directly involved in any way, but I do understand that Jet2 have handled things particularly well through the Lockdown to now with crew and serviceable fleet retention, BA have been appalling with it, and TUI UK lays somewhere in the middle.

[Matt995]

TUIs fleet for Summer 2022:- (80 aircraft)

7 A320's - 9H-MLP, 9H-MLQ, ES-SAM, ES-SAY, ES-SAZ, G-POWK, G-POWM leased from Avion Express, Smartlynx, Titan - based DUB, DSA, LGW
1 A321 - to be leased from SmartLynx, details TBC, MAN based
4 B738s - C-FPRP, C-FWCH, C-FYJD, C-GFEH leased from Sunwing, based ABZ, BFS, CWL, NWI
34 B738s - based GLA, NCL, DSA, MAN, EMA, BHX, LTN, STN, CWL, BOH, EXT, LGW
18 B7M8s - based BHX, BRS, GLA, NCL, MAN, LGW
2 B763s - based MAN
2 B788s - G-TUIF, G-TUIH short haul configuration, based LGW, MAN
6 B788s - long haul configuration, based GLA, MAN, NCL/DSA, BHX, BRS, LGW
6 B789s - based BHX, LGW, MAN

Summer schedules shows number of aircraft required :- 7 A320s, 1 A321, 37 B738s, 18 B7M8s, 2 B76W's, 8 B788's, 5 B789's, total aircraft required 78.

That's leaves 1 spare B738, and 1 spare B789 (SE-RFZ) as standby aircraft.

Currently G-TUIF is a LTN being configured for short haul, SE-RFZ at AMM for maintenance, G-TAWD at St Athan's, due to enter service this week, G-TAWN at Birmingham, expected to enter service Wednesday, G-TUMP, due to be delivered LGW 11th June.

Still a question mark over the A321 SmartLynx lease, but TUI website is still showing its seating plan on some Manchester flights.

[SJL26779]

TUIs fleet for Summer 2022:- (80 aircraft)

7 A320's - 9H-MLP, 9H-MLQ, ES-SAM, ES-SAY, ES-SAZ, G-POWK, G-POWM leased from Avion Express, Smartlynx, Titan - based DUB, DSA, LGW
1 A321 - to be leased from SmartLynx, details TBC, MAN based
4 B738s - C-FPRP, C-FWCH, C-FYJD, C-GFEH leased from Sunwing, based ABZ, BFS, CWL, NWI
34 B738s - based GLA, NCL, DSA, MAN, EMA, BHX, LTN, STN, CWL, BOH, EXT, LGW
18 B7M8s - based BHX, BRS, GLA, NCL, MAN, LGW
2 B763s - based MAN
2 B788s - G-TUIF, G-TUIH short haul configuration, based LGW, MAN
6 B788s - long haul configuration, based GLA, MAN, NCL/DSA, BHX, BRS, LGW
6 B789s - based BHX, LGW, MAN

Summer schedules shows number of aircraft required :- 7 A320s, 1 A321, 37 B738s, 18 B7M8s, 2 B76W's, 8 B788's, 5 B789's, total aircraft required 78.

That's leaves 1 spare B738, and 1 spare B789 (SE-RFZ) as standby aircraft.

Currently G-TUIF is a LTN being configured for short haul, SE-RFZ at AMM for maintenance, G-TAWD at St Athan's, due to enter service this week, G-TAWN at Birmingham, expected to enter service Wednesday, G-TUMP, due to be delivered LGW 11th June.

Still a question mark over the A321 SmartLynx lease, but TUI website is still showing its seating plan on some Manchester flights.


Thanks Matt995 really handy info.

[azz767]

TUIs fleet for Summer 2022:- (80 aircraft)

7 A320's - 9H-MLP, 9H-MLQ, ES-SAM, ES-SAY, ES-SAZ, G-POWK, G-POWM leased from Avion Express, Smartlynx, Titan - based DUB, DSA, LGW
1 A321 - to be leased from SmartLynx, details TBC, MAN based
4 B738s - C-FPRP, C-FWCH, C-FYJD, C-GFEH leased from Sunwing, based ABZ, BFS, CWL, NWI
34 B738s - based GLA, NCL, DSA, MAN, EMA, BHX, LTN, STN, CWL, BOH, EXT, LGW
18 B7M8s - based BHX, BRS, GLA, NCL, MAN, LGW
2 B763s - based MAN
2 B788s - G-TUIF, G-TUIH short haul configuration, based LGW, MAN
6 B788s - long haul configuration, based GLA, MAN, NCL/DSA, BHX, BRS, LGW
6 B789s - based BHX, LGW, MAN

Summer schedules shows number of aircraft required :- 7 A320s, 1 A321, 37 B738s, 18 B7M8s, 2 B76W's, 8 B788's, 5 B789's, total aircraft required 78.

That's leaves 1 spare B738, and 1 spare B789 (SE-RFZ) as standby aircraft.

Currently G-TUIF is a LTN being configured for short haul, SE-RFZ at AMM for maintenance, G-TAWD at St Athan's, due to enter service this week, G-TAWN at Birmingham, expected to enter service Wednesday, G-TUMP, due to be delivered LGW 11th June.

Still a question mark over the A321 SmartLynx lease, but TUI website is still showing its seating plan on some Manchester flights.

what about A320 YL-LCT that has been at MAN for the past few weeks and has TUI stickers on? Or is this maybe instead of the A321 that was due at MAN

[SJL26779]

What is wrong with the Sunwings? See both Tenerife flights from Norwich and Aberdeen are cancelled tonight

I see today's Sunwing Reus to Cardiff flight hasn't left Reus yet and has therefore delayed this afternoons Zakynthos flight. Tui aren't having much luck with Sunwing at all. This mornings 9am Belfast to Palma has only just left on a Wamos A330. The tech Belfast Sunwing AC seems to be fixed now as it has operated today's Belfast to Reus flight just over 2 hours late.

[CabinCrewe]

What a mess. Sounds like the good old late 80’s delays and subcharters… Not a great start to season. Would put me off considering TUI.

[MARK 101]

Do Sunwing provide the crew for the flights or is it crewed by UK staff, Just wondered if that had any bearing on the Sunwing flight issues
Presumably A320 ES-SAA which was rumoured to be for TUI is not now operating as this left BHX earlier heading for Germany

[FrequentFlyer7]

Hi All,
Booked to go to Larnaca from Manchester on the 3rd June with TUI.
Got the email yesterday from TUI -We’re writing to you to let you know it’s been necessary to make some changes to the airline that you were due to fly with and your flight times may have changed also. One or more of your flights will now be operated by SMARTLYNX on behalf of TUI Airways. This is because we plan our flying programme a long time in advance and depending on where and when our customers are choosing to travel, we do on occasions need to change the type of aircraft we operate on a particular route. We’re really sorry for any disappointment this may cause.


The TUI booking now says an A320 we deliver us.

Any ideas what this A320 will be like? i have read some of the reviews.

[SJL26779]

I see today's Sunwing Reus to Cardiff flight hasn't left Reus yet and has therefore delayed this afternoons Zakynthos flight. Tui aren't having much luck with Sunwing at all. This mornings 9am Belfast to Palma has only just left on a Wamos A330. The tech Belfast Sunwing AC seems to be fixed now as it has operated today's Belfast to Reus flight just over 2 hours late.

UPDATE: both of these flights have now been "rescheduled" for 25th May. Not great at all, especially for those who checked in at Cardiff this morning expecting to fly to Greece today

[SJL26779]

Hi All,
Booked to go to Larnaca from Manchester on the 3rd June with TUI.
Got the email yesterday from TUI -We’re writing to you to let you know it’s been necessary to make some changes to the airline that you were due to fly with and your flight times may have changed also. One or more of your flights will now be operated by SMARTLYNX on behalf of TUI Airways. This is because we plan our flying programme a long time in advance and depending on where and when our customers are choosing to travel, we do on occasions need to change the type of aircraft we operate on a particular route. We’re really sorry for any disappointment this may cause.


The TUI booking now says an A320 we deliver us.

Any ideas what this A320 will be like? i have read some of the reviews.

It will be a Smartlynx or Avion Express aircraft as these are both scheduled to operate from Manchester on behalf of TUI. If you want to see a seat map you can do a dummy holiday search on TUI and it will let you select your seats.

[NickBarnes]

Do Sunwing provide the crew for the flights or is it crewed by UK staff, Just wondered if that had any bearing on the Sunwing flight issues
Presumably A320 ES-SAA which was rumoured to be for TUI is not now operating as this left BHX earlier heading for Germany

Sunwing provide the flight crew, the cabin is UK. The NWI Sunwing is also still on catch up after last couple of days and is about 3 hours behind. Hopefully back to normal by tomorrow

[Nightstop]

Any ideas what this A320 will be like? i have read some of the reviews.

I flew as a pax on SmartLynx this week, operating on behalf of a different Airline. Great flight and Cabin Crew, however catering on board was very limited. This is something to watch out for when ACMI operators are bought in at short notice, don’t expect to be fed or watered en-route to your holiday destination. Stock up with supplies (except alcohol) before boarding as soon as you get a whiff that the airline is not the one you were expecting.

[Downwind_Left]

Some of the A320 leases will see TUIs own cabin crew operating, if you follow them on instagram there have been posts showing their crew having the training. I don’t know which specific aircraft, but I do know that the Titan ones are fully crewed by Titan plus a TUI cabin crew representative.

[Matt995]

what about A320 YL-LCT that has been at MAN for the past few weeks and has TUI stickers on? Or is this maybe instead of the A321 that was due at MAN

Personally I would expect the planned Smartlynx A321 will indeed be replaced by an A320 most likely YL-LCT, but TUI is still showing a seating plan for an A321 on various flights, despite SmartLynx not having an A321's available, still quite a mess!

Even though YL-LCT might have TUI stickers on it, it still could be transferred to TUI Fly Belgium, Germany, Netherlands etc as they also use SmartLynx aircraft.

[chinapattern]

A long haul configured 787-8 is positioning from BHX-BRS to operate MEL. Meanwhile, a long haul configured 787-8 is positioning BRS-BHX to operate what will end up being a delayed PMI. I’m sure there was must be a logical reason but it seems a strange one. A Wamos A330 had arrived in BHX last night seemingly to operate the wide bodied short haul flights so no idea what’s going on.

[Sjf1978]

Went tech at EXT yesterday. Max 8 flew in yesterday from LGW to cover the PMI flights but yesterdays Heraklion service still hasn’t gone.

[WHBM]

A long haul configured 787-8 is positioning from BHX-BRS to operate MEL. Meanwhile, a long haul configured 787-8 is positioning BRS-BHX to operate what will end up being a delayed PMI. I’m sure there was must be a logical reason but it seems a strange one.
That sort of thing often associated with some aspect of ETOPS which has failed and is not readily fixable. The alternative, diverting both out and return legs via overhead Iceland and Gander on the non-ETOPS track, might be more expensive and disruptive.

[ROC10]

A long haul configured 787-8 is positioning from BHX-BRS to operate MEL. Meanwhile, a long haul configured 787-8 is positioning BRS-BHX to operate what will end up being a delayed PMI. I’m sure there was must be a logical reason but it seems a strange one. A Wamos A330 had arrived in BHX last night seemingly to operate the wide bodied short haul flights so no idea what’s going on.

Are this year’s s/h configured 788s G-TUIH and G-TUIF (the latter still in LTN at present)?

At the same time as TUIC is positioning BHX-BRS, we have TUID positioning NCL-BHX…

[willy wombat]

I had no idea TUI operated to Melbourne.

[NickBarnes]

I had no idea TUI operated to Melbourne.
​​​​​​
I think he meant to put MLB, the Melbourne in the US

[xanda_man]

They moved the Florida flights from Orlando, FL (MCO) to Melbourne, FL (MLB). One suspects that they got a better deal from the airport.

[MANFAN]

Currently in Malaga with an indefinite delay apparently, we were meant to depart at 11:10 local time, the ETD at the moment is 14:50 local according to the screens but I can see on FR24 our aircraft hasn’t even departed Manchester yet, was due to be a 767 so I can only assume it’s gone tech? No info this side from check in staff, I only found out of the delay initially by checking FR24!

[Wycombe]

They moved the Florida flights from Orlando, FL (MCO) to Melbourne, FL (MLB)

They were moved from Sanford (SFB) weren't they. Don't think TOM have operated from MCO (in recent years anyway)

[Mark J Bowcock]

Currently in Malaga with an indefinite delay apparently, we were meant to depart at 11:10 local time, the ETD at the moment is 14:50 local according to the screens but I can see on FR24 our aircraft hasn’t even departed Manchester yet, was due to be a 767 so I can only assume it’s gone tech? No info this side from check in staff, I only found out of the delay initially by checking FR24!

Hi yes I’m sat at Manchester waiting to get on it with the other 300 odd people! Should have left at 6am but there’s a fault on the aircraft! The captain came up to
the gate hours ago to update us all. The new part has been fitted but tests on it keep failing!? So we have to wait! Been given £15 in vouchers! But it’s starting to get peoples temper up now.I think the crew have got off it and it’s still parked on A2 with maintenance vans around it! We haven’t been updated since!

[WHBM]

They were moved from Sanford (SFB) weren't they. Don't think TOM have operated from MCO (in recent years anyway)
Orlando MCO only became interested in mainstream multiple daily flights long ago, and UK holiday flights moved over to Sanford, little used and still with immigration facilities. However the later has in recent times become a major point for US LCC airline Allegiant, and the focus has moved on, so Melbourne is the next to get used. Being "cheap" for charges, and "somewhere in Florida" are its characteristics.

Despite its rebranding as "Melbourne Orlando airport", it puts Frankfurt Hahn in the shade, being 75 miles from Disney, probably a couple of hours drive each way (I doubt the brochures say that), given the 192 that links the two is not even a freeway and has signals etc along the way. Melbourne is actually on the Atlantic coast. The airport used to handle such NASA traffic to Cape Canaveral as wasn't entitled to the NASA internal flights, but seems to have retreated to being a Florida secondary airport.

[SJL26779]

UPDATE: both of these flights have now been "rescheduled" for 25th May. Not great at all, especially for those who checked in at Cardiff this morning expecting to fly to Greece today

Cardiff Sunwing A/C still stuck in Reus. It's currently been there for 27 hours. Does anyone know the reason? Knock on effect once again to today's Cardiff departures.

[SJL26779]

Hi yes I’m sat at Manchester waiting to get on it with the other 300 odd people! Should have left at 6am but there’s a fault on the aircraft! The captain came up to
the gate hours ago to update us all. The new part has been fitted but tests on it keep failing!? So we have to wait! Been given £15 in vouchers! But it’s starting to get peoples temper up now.I think the crew have got off it and it’s still parked on A2 with maintenance vans around it! We haven’t been updated since!

WOW! These TUI tech aircraft seem to be happening more and more. Please keep us updated Mark J Bowcock and hope you get on your way soon.

[Mark J Bowcock]

WOW! These TUI tech aircraft seem to be happening more and more. Please keep us updated Mark J Bowcock and hope you get on your way soon.

Cape Verde has just been delayed till tomorrow! They are transferring passengers to hotels! But nothing been said to us lot who have been here since 2am.

[SJL26779]

Cape Verde has just been delayed till tomorrow! They are transferring passengers to hotels! But nothing been said to us lot who have been here since 2am.

That is so bad. FR24 states expected departure time is 7pm for Cape Verde so clearly hasnt been updated yet. Any more news on your flight yet?

[azz767]

It must be a huge problem for TUI when a 767 or s/h 787 has issues. It’s hard enough to lease that sort of capacity in on short notice and as pointed out in a post above theres next to no slack in the TUI fleet currently so it’s not like they can do what Jet2 did last week when the air tanker A330 went tech and they split the following days flight into two (757 & 737) to avoid delays.

[Mark J Bowcock]

It must be a huge problem for TUI when a 767 or s/h 787 has issues. It’s hard enough to lease that sort of capacity in on short notice and as pointed out in a post above theres next to no slack in the TUI fleet currently so it’s not like they can do what Jet2 did last week when the air tanker A330 went tech and they split the following days flight into two (757 & 737) to avoid delays.

and we have just been cancelled till tomorrow! So no Malaga today!

[MANFAN]

and we have just been cancelled till tomorrow! So no Malaga today!

Yes same for us in Malaga…we are now on the coach to a hotel overnight. No flight info known until later this evening

[davidjohnson6]

I can think of at least 3 EU passenger airlines which have an A320 or B738 on the ground and which have wet leased those aircraft to other airlines in the last week.
There is ACMI capacity in Europe... just maybe not at a price TUI are willing to pay.

[silverelise]

Friends of mine have been trying to fly to Cape Verde from Manchester since 22nd May with TUI, flight has been cancelled twice now. They are currently on a coach on the way back to a hotel in Manchester for another night with no further information what is happening next. All they are being told is "aircraft technical problem".

Does anyone have any idea what is going on ?

[SJL26779]

Friends of mine have been trying to fly to Cape Verde from Manchester since 22nd May with TUI, flight has been cancelled twice now. They are currently on a coach on the way back to a hotel in Manchester for another night with no further information what is happening next. All they are being told is "aircraft technical problem".

Does anyone have any idea what is going on ?

According to FR24 the flight left on 22nd May. Do you have the flight number please?

[azz767]

I can think of at least 3 EU passenger airlines which have an A320 or B738 on the ground and which have wet leased those aircraft to other airlines in the last week.
There is ACMI capacity in Europe... just maybe not at a price TUI are willing to pay.

the problem is though if it’s a 767 that’s gone tech and it was going to be operating fully, they’d need two of those A320’s/B738’s to cover and that might be where the price is too much.

That’s was my earlier point that it’s much harder currently to find one aircraft to cover over 300 pax on a flight at short notice.

[SWBKCB]

On the ground and available are two different things - could be 101 different reasons other than price.

[ROC10]

Went tech at EXT yesterday. Max 8 flew in yesterday from LGW to cover the PMI flights but yesterdays Heraklion service still hasn’t gone.

Yesterday’s HER operated today with a 20-hour delay and this afternoon’s RHO is showing a 7-hour delay at present. This morning’s IBZ doesn’t appear to have operated.

[SJL26779]

Yesterday’s HER operated today with a 20-hour delay and this afternoon’s RHO is showing a 7-hour delay at present. This morning’s IBZ doesn’t appear to have operated.

This mornings Cardiff Ibiza hasn't flown yet either

[Sjf1978]

Yesterday’s HER operated today with a 20-hour delay and this afternoon’s RHO is showing a 7-hour delay at present. This morning’s IBZ doesn’t appear to have operated.

There is an extra tui flight to IBZ going tonight from BRS

comments on social media suggest EXT passengers have been transferred to BRS

[silverelise]

Friends of mine have been trying to fly to Cape Verde from Manchester since 22nd May with TUI, flight has been cancelled twice now. They are currently on a coach on the way back to a hotel in Manchester for another night with no further information what is happening next. All they are being told is "aircraft technical problem".

Does anyone have any idea what is going on ?

They are now being bussed from Manchester to Birmingham for a 4:15 departure tomorrow, although that information appears to be coming from heresay being passed around, they haven't received any direct information from TUI. I think people are starting to get miffed.

[Mark J Bowcock]

They are now being bussed from Manchester to Birmingham for a 4:15 departure tomorrow, although that information appears to be coming from heresay being passed around, they haven't received any direct information from TUI. I think people are starting to get miffed.
no they are in the hotel with us from the Malaga flight! In Manchester CC

[CabinCrewe]

Some hoo-ha on the GLA-CUN 788 service earlier today and left almost 3 hrs late. Not sure the down time layover to allow some catch up.

[MANFAN]

Update from our flight to Manchester from Malaga, should have departed at 11.10am today local time (Wednesday), now departing at 3am Friday morning!
Transferred to a 4* all inclusive hotel near Malaga for now…very nice but an inconvenience to those who need to be in work! Luckily I’m not back in until Monday!

[Matt995]

Are this year’s s/h configured 788s G-TUIH and G-TUIF (the latter still in LTN at present)?

At the same time as TUIC is positioning BHX-BRS, we have TUID positioning NCL-BHX…

and 788 G-TUII has been sat on the ground at BHX since 15:00 doing nothing, as far as I am aware fully serviceable, so why couldn't it be used on the delayed Manchester Malaga or Cape Verde flights or even the Cardiff flights? - Lack of crew/cabin crew to fly it?

TUI still woefully short of aircraft, G-TUIF, SE-RFZ still in maintenance, G-TAWD, G-TAWN, G-TAWP still not yet re-entered service!!

[caaardiff]

At CWL, ZTH from Tues, and IBZ from 0635 today and DLM from 1625 today all rescheduled for tomorrow, along with the usual 5 flights (3 first thing and 2 afternoon flights) to cover. Along with all the other disruption across the network, that's going to be an interesting day to cover!

[azz767]

and 788 G-TUII has been sat on the ground at BHX since 15:00 doing nothing, as far as I am aware fully serviceable, so why couldn't it be used on the delayed Manchester Malaga or Cape Verde flights or even the Cardiff flights? - Lack of crew/cabin crew to fly it?

TUI still woefully short of aircraft, G-TUIF, SE-RFZ still in maintenance, G-TAWD, G-TAWN, G-TAWP still not yet re-entered service!!


Makes you wonder if they should have taken up all of the G-TUK* series of aircraft they were going to take pre pandemic, but I suppose they’d still have to find crew for them which may have been an extra problem in itself

[ROC10]

They are now being bussed from Manchester to Birmingham for a 4:15 departure tomorrow, although that information appears to be coming from heresay being passed around, they haven't received any direct information from TUI. I think people are starting to get miffed.

Are TUI being serious? This flight was meant to go on Sunday and they’re now trying to operate it the following Thursday from a different airport? Surely this should have been long cancelled and refunded if not operated by Mon/Tue (which is frankly an appalling delay anyway). I doubt anyone only going for a week would still want to go and anyone else would want significant reimbursement. Also, what about those stuck in Cape Verde? I wonder if they have been split onto other TUI flights that (may) have operated since Sunday.

The 767s seem to be causing quite the headache so far this season.

[ROC10]

Is this the same flight? Articles suggest it was “overbooked” and 26 passengers were “kicked off”.

https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1615245/TUI-flight-Manchester-Airport-Cape-Verde/amp

[OzzyOzBorn]

I believe that this service used 300-seat G-TUIB, replacing one of the B763's which are advised as configured with 328 seats. Hence the shortfall. G-TUIB positioned BRS-MAN, then operated substantially delayed services MAN-AGP-MAN and MAN-SID-MAN.

[Mark J Bowcock]

I believe that this service used 300-seat G-TUIB, replacing one of the B763's which are advised as configured with 328 seats. Hence the shortfall. G-TUIB positioned BRS-MAN, then operated substantially delayed services MAN-AGP-MAN and MAN-SID-MAN.

the flight to Malaga isn’t going till 11.30pm tonight! I’ve been taken off it as they are using a smaller plane and as I only booked flight only they have cancelled me off the flight! I’m livid tbh.

[WHBM]

Even Channel Airways at their lowest would not have dumped people with just a paltry refund 4 days after intended departure. I wonder what the CAA will have to say about it?

Possibly TUI can take the £100k-plus they have saved by not going for a subcharter and spread it around the 28 passengers.

[MANFAN]

the flight to Malaga isn’t going till 11.30pm tonight! I’ve been taken off it as they are using a smaller plane and as I only booked flight only they have cancelled me off the flight! I’m livid tbh.

I’m sorry to hear you’ve been taken off the flight!
We’ve been told we are going to Malaga airport at midnight tonight but nothing about being split up, there’s around 325 passengers…it’s going to be a long 24hrs!
Good luck to you!

[Mark J Bowcock]

I’m sorry to hear you’ve been taken off the flight!
We’ve been told we are going to Malaga airport at midnight tonight but nothing about being split up, there’s around 325 passengers…it’s going to be a long 24hrs!
Good luck to you!

you must have been in the hotel then in Manchester

[Gurnard]

Hotel in Malaga, if I read it correctly.
What a mess we are in! All the best for all of you with your disrupted plans. It can't be any fun.

[MANFAN]

you must have been in the hotel then in Manchester

No I’m in Malaga now, we are going to Malaga airport by coach at midnight tonight local time. We should have flown back to Manchester at 11.10am local time yesterday (Wednesday). Now due to arrive at 6.30am tomorrow morning (Friday). Absolute mess, apart from the nice hotel!

[SJL26779]

No I’m in Malaga now, we are going to Malaga airport by coach at midnight tonight local time. We should have flown back to Manchester at 11.10am local time yesterday (Wednesday). Now due to arrive at 6.30am tomorrow morning (Friday). Absolute mess, apart from the nice hotel!

Wonder who will be operating the flight for so many people saying as TUI 763 is in use today and I can't see a gap in the schedule to send one.

[SJL26779]

Cape Verde has just been delayed till tomorrow! They are transferring passengers to hotels! But nothing been said to us lot who have been here since 2am.

Today's rescheduled Cape Verde is showing cancelled on FR24. I take it the 763 is still tech?

[MANFAN]

Today's rescheduled Cape Verde is showing cancelled on FR24. I take it the 763 is still tech?

Haven’t they already gone down to Birmingham by coach?

[MANFAN]

Wonder who will be operating the flight for so many people saying as TUI 763 is in use today and I can't see a gap in the schedule to send one.

Good question! There are around 325 of us, no info on if they are splitting flights, just that we are all getting picked up at midnight and taken to Malaga airport.

[gdiddy]

No I’m in Malaga now, we are going to Malaga airport by coach at midnight tonight local time. We should have flown back to Manchester at 11.10am local time yesterday (Wednesday). Now due to arrive at 6.30am tomorrow morning (Friday). Absolute mess, apart from the nice hotel!
I appreciate not everyone is a financial position to buy their own tickets and find their own way home, but just looking on Ryanair website they have a Malaga to Liverpool flight this afternoon at 16.55 for 73 Euros which is around £60, unfortunately the Manchester departure this afternoon is over 360 Euros.
If you live south of Manchester, East Midlands and Birmingham airports have Ryanair departures around 9pm tonight for around 50 Euros.

Jet2 also have flights for around 50 Euros to Leeds Bradford at 8.35pm.

Im sure airlines have to refund reasonable travel costs if they cannot offer an acceptable alternative to get you home, in a timely manner.

[Mark J Bowcock]

Haven’t they already gone down to Birmingham by coach?

I think they were still in the hotel in Manchester
this morning!

[Mark J Bowcock]

I appreciate not everyone is a financial position to buy their own tickets and find their own way home, but just looking on Ryanair website they have a Malaga to Liverpool flight this afternoon at 16.55 for 73 Euros which is around £60, unfortunately the Manchester departure this afternoon is over 360 Euros.
If you live south of Manchester, East Midlands and Birmingham airports have Ryanair departures around 9pm tonight for around 50 Euros.

Jet2 also have flights for around 50 Euros to Leeds Bradford at 8.35pm.

Im sure airlines have to refund reasonable travel costs if they cannot offer an acceptable alternative to get you home, in a timely manner.

OK so in regards to myself I have been cancelled off the delayed Malaga flight from
yesterday that app is operating later tonight. As it’s a smaller aircraft operating the flight today and as I only booked flight only they have taken me off it as there’s not enough seats. My question is that I have now lost out on non refundable hotels for the next few days and a flight back on EasyJet that I can change but at a cost to me of over £100. Are they allowed just to take me off a flight and shouldn’t they have given me an alternative. Im quite livid tbh. I have filled in the EU261 claim but that is for the flight delay and
not for everything else I’ve booked. I have travel Insurance but why should I claim on that when there’s an excess to pay. Sorry for the long text but it’s well out of order what they have done!

[MANFAN]

OK so in regards to myself I have been cancelled off the delayed Malaga flight from
yesterday that app is operating later tonight. As it’s a smaller aircraft operating the flight today and as I only booked flight only they have taken me off it as there’s not enough seats. My question is that I have now lost out on non refundable hotels for the next few days and a flight back on EasyJet that I can change but at a cost to me of over £100. Are they allowed just to take me off a flight and shouldn’t they have given me an alternative. Im quite livid tbh. I have filled in the EU261 claim but that is for the flight delay and
not for everything else I’ve booked. I have travel Insurance but why should I claim on that when there’s an excess to pay. Sorry for the long text but it’s well out of order what they have done!

Have TUI allocated an aircraft for this flight?

[Mark J Bowcock]

Have TUI allocated an aircraft for this flight?
I don’t know tbh. All I was told from another passenger on the flight this morning is that it’s leaving at 11.30 tonight. I’ve had an email off TUI saying it’s a smaller aircraft and I have been cancelled . People are not happy tbh as that quite a late departure to get into Malaga in the early hours!

[Mark J Bowcock]

Have TUI allocated an aircraft for this flight?

Dear Mr Bowcock, We’re really sorry about the delay to your flight today. Due to a technical issue with the aircraft, we’ve had to arrange for an alternative aircraft to operate the flight tomorrow. The new aircraft is smaller than originally planned and we therefore have less seats available which means we’ve had to cancel your flight only booking.

We’re really sorry for any disappointment and inconvenience caused. We’ve actioned a full refund of the cost paid for your flight and below is a link that you’re able to use to claim compensation. The refund of your flight costs should show in your bank within the next 3-5 working days.

https://www.tui.co.uk/destinations/contact-us/flight-delays

and tbh there was a 787 parked up at Manchester all day yesterday ! So why didn’t they use that?

[WHBM]

Does there have to be a stated policy for UK operators for who gets bumped in the event of overbooking/insufficient seats ? Does this have to be in their AOC ? I am aware that USA carriers have to have such a public policy, and indeed display it, for the order in which they drop off involuntary overbookings, to avoid any claim of discrimination. I can't see the CAA would sign off on "holiday bookings are prioritised over seat only bookings", and I doubt that is in the Conditions of Contract in those terms either.

[Jonty]

Dear Mr Bowcock, We’re really sorry about the delay to your flight today. Due to a technical issue with the aircraft, we’ve had to arrange for an alternative aircraft to operate the flight tomorrow. The new aircraft is smaller than originally planned and we therefore have less seats available which means we’ve had to cancel your flight only booking.

We’re really sorry for any disappointment and inconvenience caused. We’ve actioned a full refund of the cost paid for your flight and below is a link that you’re able to use to claim compensation. The refund of your flight costs should show in your bank within the next 3-5 working days.

https://www.tui.co.uk/destinations/contact-us/flight-delays

and tbh there was a 787 parked up at Manchester all day yesterday ! So why didn’t they use that?

I was under the impression they had to book you on to the next available flight, even if that means flying with a different operator.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/holiday-cancellations-and-compensation/if-your-flights-delayed-or-cancelled/


https://www.caa.co.uk/passengers/resolving-travel-problems/delays-and-cancellations/denied-boarding/

[ATNotts]

What staggers me is that the national media has not caught on to the absolute shambles of a TUI operation at the moment. The experience of MANFAN and Mr. Bowcock are totally unacceptable, and cannot be blamed on Covid, lack of staff, factors outside of our control or any such other fatuous reasons. If that were the case then the likes of Jet2 and Ryanair would be finding themselves in a similar mess, which, by the look of things they are not. it appears on the face of it to be total incompetence from planning and management, and I'm not thinking of day to day management but decisions made several steps up the pay grade scale.

Someone mentioned further up-thread that some of the delay situation put the absolute mess that was the Channel Airways operations for Lyons Tours on ex Olympic Comets back in the late 70s or early 80s into the proverbial cocked hat. TUI simply cannot treat customers in this way.

It appears to me that TUI have been flogging holidays for the past few months with no idea how they were going to move them, which were that to be the case, would be verging on taking money under false pretences.

I have, by the way, no axe to grind, I'm not working for TUI or a competitor, and haven't the misfortune to have a booking with TUI this year - and probably won't in the future. I feel for the staff both of TUI and their handling agents for flack they are almost certainly having to face on a day by day basis.

[SWBKCB]

What staggers me is that the national media has not caught on to the absolute shambles of a TUI operation at the moment. The experience of MANFAN and Mr. Bowcock are totally unacceptable, and cannot be blamed on Covid, lack of staff, factors outside of our control or any such other fatuous reasons. If that were the case then the likes of Jet2 and Ryanair would be finding themselves in a similar mess, which, by the look of things they are not. it appears on the face of it to be total incompetence from planning and management, and I'm not thinking of day to day management but decisions made several steps up the pay grade scale.

Someone mentioned further up-thread that some of the delay situation put the absolute mess that was the Channel Airways operations for Lyons Tours on ex Olympic Comets back in the late 70s or early 80s into the proverbial cocked hat. TUI simply cannot treat customers in this way.

It appears to me that TUI have been flogging holidays for the past few months with no idea how they were going to move them, which were that to be the case, would be verging on taking money under false pretences.

I have, by the way, no axe to grind, I'm not working for TUI or a competitor, and haven't the misfortune to have a booking with TUI this year - and probably won't in the future. I feel for the staff both of TUI and their handling agents for flack they are almost certainly having to face on a day by day basis.

Channel went bust in 1972. Always good to get your facts straight.

If that were the case then the likes of Jet2 and Ryanair would be finding themselves in a similar mess

If we are comparing apples and oranges - look at Gatwicks arrivals today.

[Vokes55]

TUI are far from the worst, it’s just that every single delay is noticed by PPrune spotters attached to FR24 all day. ROC10’s entire purpose appears to be finding TUI delays and posting about them, s/he was doing that long before Covid.

Im not sure the “national press” are that interested in a few bad experiences and long delays whilst BA, EZY and Wizz continue to cancel tens of flights on a daily basis and then make no effort to get customers to their destinations, bar putting them on the next flight subject to availability. Maybe time to get some
perspective.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/easyjet-cancelled-flights-gatwick-belfast-b2085269.html?amp

[ATNotts]

Channel went bust in 1972. Always good to get your facts straight.

If we are comparing apples and oranges - look at Gatwicks arrivals today.

Time plays tricks; however can you deny the current situation with TUI is, at least for some passengers, at least as bad as those of unfortunate Lyons Tours customers in the early 70s? Again, the memory can and does play tricks, but I recall that even Channel didn't have too many multi day delays.

If they did then I stand corrected.

[SWBKCB]

I can think of many airlines that have had multi-day delays over the years. At least they are not taking the easy option of mass cancellations.

TUI is a more complex beast than the other airlines you mentioned. Long haul operations and more small base (single a/c in some cases) operations. Are they having a tough time - yes. Is it more than bad luck, who knows but lets keep a sense of perspective. The vast majority of TUI pax are getting away on time.

[silverelise]

My friends have just arrived at Birmingham in the bus from Manchester for a 4:15 flight to Cape Verde. Third time lucky, fingers crossed.

Just found out my cousin is in Torremolinos, should have been home yesterday but had an 8 hour delay at the airport and was then sent home and has been told they'll be flown home on Friday.

[ATNotts]

I can think of many airlines that have had multi-day delays over the years. At least they are not taking the easy option of mass cancellations.

TUI is a more complex beast than the other airlines you mentioned. Long haul operations and more small base (single a/c in some cases) operations. Are they having a tough time - yes. Is it more than bad luck, who knows but lets keep a sense of perspective. The vast majority of TUI pax are getting away on time.

The problem with making mass cancellations is that for the overwhelming majority of their customers it isn't just the flight they would be canning, but the holiday revenue as well which would surely be a far greater detriment to the business than a couple of hundred delay compensation settlements and some compensation for losing a couple of days from the customers' holidays.

I have just taken a butchers at LGW on FR24 and can see what you mean regarding EasyJet, but again, correct me if I'm wrong, but many, if not most of the EZY cancellation were announced some weeks ago rather than "on the day" cancellations. Certainly that's the impression I got from the interview that the EasyJet CEO gave on TV a few days ago.

[SJL26779]

My friends have just arrived at Birmingham in the bus from Manchester for a 4:15 flight to Cape Verde. Third time lucky, fingers crossed.

Just found out my cousin is in Torremolinos, should have been home yesterday but had an 8 hour delay at the airport and was then sent home and has been told they'll be flown home on Friday.

Cape Verde flight has an estimated time of Departure as 17.30. I hope they enjoy their holiday after the wait

[silverelise]

Cape Verde flight has an estimated time of Departure as 17.30. I hope they enjoy their holiday after the wait

Thanks - any idea if the aircraft is actually at BHX or is it reliant on an inbound flight ?

[SWBKCB]

Thanks - any idea if the aircraft is actually at BHX or is it reliant on an inbound flight ?

Looks like G-TUII, on its way from Dalaman estimating 16.15 - passing Stuttgart at 15.00

[silverelise]

Looks like G-TUII, on its way from Dalaman estimating 16.15 - passing Stuttgart at 15.00

Thanks. They've messaged that there is quite a visible police presence at Birmingham. I think tempers are getting a little short, hopefully the flight gets away OK and everybody on board, although after three check-ins in 5 days and now 27 hours since leaving home I think my friends are resigned to their holiday not happening.

[Expo737]

I have just taken a butchers at LGW on FR24 and can see what you mean regarding EasyJet, but again, correct me if I'm wrong, but many, if not most of the EZY cancellation were announced some weeks ago rather than "on the day" cancellations. Certainly that's the impression I got from the interview that the EasyJet CEO gave on TV a few days ago.

Yes and no, they've just been hit with a bit IT problem that's scuppered the whole operation and ended up cancelling all flights due to depart between 1300Z & 1500Z, reportedly around 450 flights :o

[ATNotts]

Yes and no, they've just been hit with a bit IT problem that's scuppered the whole operation and ended up cancelling all flights due to depart between 1300Z & 1500Z, reportedly around 450 flights :o

Yes, read that after I posted, IT related issues. That's progress I guess!

[Expo737]

Yeah, it can happen to anyone but EZY sure can't catch a break at the moment. I'm just glad I'm not back on until Saturday :)

[Vokes55]

The problem with making mass cancellations is that for the overwhelming majority of their customers it isn't just the flight they would be canning, but the holiday revenue as well which would surely be a far greater detriment to the business than a couple of hundred delay compensation settlements and some compensation for losing a couple of days from the customers' holidays.

I have just taken a butchers at LGW on FR24 and can see what you mean regarding EasyJet, but again, correct me if I'm wrong, but many, if not most of the EZY cancellation were announced some weeks ago rather than "on the day" cancellations. Certainly that's the impression I got from the interview that the EasyJet CEO gave on TV a few days ago.

Which is why they don’t make mass cancellations, and instead carry delays which often exacerbate the situation for the days ahead.

But if my flight was going to be disrupted, I think I’d rather be put into a hotel, compensated, possibly even bussed to another airport and end up on a Subchartered aircraft the next day than have my flight cancelled, put on the next available flight three days later, lose my non-refundable booking.com hotel and my car hire and be made to sort my own accommodation in the mean time, with any chance of reimbursement beyond a refund and EU261 in the hands of an insurance company.

The start of the season hasn’t been ideal for TUI but they’re far from the worst and are at least making an effort to get customers away.

As for EZY, anything that shows as cancelled on the display screens or website is an on the day cancellation. Anything cancelled long in advance won’t appear, although they may still appear on FR24 if that’s your source.

[SJL26779]

Good question! There are around 325 of us, no info on if they are splitting flights, just that we are all getting picked up at midnight and taken to Malaga airport.

Flight Arrival into Malaga is showing on AENA but not on FR24 yet.

arrival 03:08
TOM2300
MANCHESTER (MAN)

[silverelise]

Thanks. They've messaged that there is quite a visible police presence at Birmingham. I think tempers are getting a little short, hopefully the flight gets away OK and everybody on board, although after three check-ins in 5 days and now 27 hours since leaving home I think my friends are resigned to their holiday not happening.

They are checked in, albeit sat 5 rows apart, but that's a non issue. Looks like the Cape Verde flight will get away tonight and they can start their holiday 4 days late.

[SJL26779]

Makes me wonder why TUI flew this AC in from Madrid this afternoon when there is a Wamos A330 sat on the ground that operated for TUI yesterday?

[garry8g]

Makes me wonder why TUI flew this AC in from Madrid this afternoon when there is a Wamos A330 sat on the ground that operated for TUI yesterday?

The Wamos A330 is heading for Manchester later this evening(21:15), to catch the delayed Malaga flights. Scheduled to leave Manchester at 23:50.

[SJL26779]

The Wamos A330 is heading for Manchester later this evening(21:15), to catch the delayed Malaga flights. Scheduled to leave Manchester at 23:50.

You beat me to it. I've just checked FR24 and found that out :)

[SJL26779]

The Wamos A330 is heading for Manchester later this evening(21:15), to catch the delayed Malaga flights. Scheduled to leave Manchester at 23:50.

The positioning flight from Birmingham to Manchester has been cancelled!

[Mark J Bowcock]

The positioning flight from Birmingham to Manchester has been cancelled!

so what’s operating the Malaga flight now?

[ChilliP]

The positioning flight from Birmingham to Manchester has been cancelled!

Seems there were two listed.
The 2100 (due 2115) is still active, but the 2230 has been cancelled.

[SJL26779]

Seems there were two listed.
The 2100 (due 2115) is still active, but the 2230 has been cancelled.

Yes my apologies just seen that although I'm still wondering how they will fit 325 passengers on a 280 seat AC

[Matt995]

The goods news for TUI, is that B738 G-TAWD re-entered service today at Gatwick, the bad news, G-TAWO seems to have gone tech in Dubrovnik, operating a flight back to East Midlands, so passengers stuck in Dubrovnik, and the evening East Midlands-Heraklion flight now seriously delayed. Problems just dont stop for TUI at present.

[MANFAN]

Yes my apologies just seen that although I'm still wondering how they will fit 325 passengers on a 280 seat AC

I would like to know that too! I will soon (hopefully) be on my way to Malaga airport soon to hopefully catch the Wamos A330 back to Manchester!

[Mark J Bowcock]

I would like to know that too! I will soon (hopefully) be on my way to Malaga airport soon to hopefully catch the Wamos A330 back to Manchester!

well I got taken off it yesterday by text! Just said as I’d booked flight only and there weren't enough seats I’d been cancelled and refunded! No replacement flight offered! The Wamos hasn’t left Birmingham yet!

[MANFOD]

"The Wamos hasn’t left Birmingham yet!"

It has now. Approaching DAYNE as I write as TOM39A

[RedDragonFlyer]

well I got taken off it yesterday by text! Just said as I’d booked flight only and there weren't enough seats I’d been cancelled and refunded! No replacement flight offered! The Wamos hasn’t left Birmingham yet!

Don't forget you are legally entitled to 400 Euros compensation per person (as you had less than 14 days notice) PLUS the difference between the refund received from TUI and the amount you pay for a new replacement flight.
If they haven't informed you of your legal rights in the messages, I would send a complaint to and ask for help from the Spanish authority (which you can do in English here: https://sede.seguridadaerea.gob.es/SAU_Pasajeros/Paginas/Inicio.aspx?lang=en )

[Matt995]

meanwhile TOM7418 BHX-EFL, B738 G-FDZU diverted to ZTH, and then had an aborted take off, so is current tech in ZTH, with TOM7419 EFL-BHX, operating out of ZTH instead on B738 G-TAWI, which then diverted to DSA! The knock on effect shows TOM7450 BHX-HER due out at 16:55 now being delayed almost 24 hours, and is now due out on Friday at 16:00

Just wondering if we might see a combined Heraklion flight for East Midland & Birmingham passengers with TOM7442 EMA-HER 17:20 still delayed?

The delayed TOM2300 MAN-AGP on Wamos A332 EC-NCK is currently just taxing out for departure, only 43 hours late..........

on a positive note G-TAWN is show as re-entering service from BHX on Friday morning, so only G-TAWP, G-TUIF & SE-RFZ to return to service!

I wonder if the TUI bosses are having sleepless nights over it?? Total shambles from TUI

[Vokes55]

I wonder if the TUI bosses are having sleepless nights over it?? Total shambles from TUI

Sleepless nights whilst the competition cancels 200 flights in one day?

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/easyjet-flights-face-disruption-due-to-it-glitch-12621889

With respect, I think you’re the only one having sleepless nights. Maybe give the Flightradar24 app a rest for a day or so?

[Mark J Bowcock]

Don't forget you are legally entitled to 400 Euros compensation per person (as you had less than 14 days notice) PLUS the difference between the refund received from TUI and the amount you pay for a new replacement flight.
If they haven't informed you of your legal rights in the messages, I would send a complaint to and ask for help from the Spanish authority (which you can do in English here: https://sede.seguridadaerea.gob.es/SAU_Pasajeros/Paginas/Inicio.aspx?lang=en )

this us all I got

Dear Mr Bowcock, We’re really sorry about the delay to your flight today. Due to a technical issue with the aircraft, we’ve had to arrange for an alternative aircraft to operate the flight tomorrow. The new aircraft is smaller than originally planned and we therefore have less seats available which means we’ve had to cancel your flight only booking.

We’re really sorry for any disappointment and inconvenience caused. We’ve actioned a full refund of the cost paid for your flight and below is a link that you’re able to use to claim compensation. The refund of your flight costs should show in your bank within the next 3-5 working days.

https://www.tui.co.uk/destinations/contact-us/flight-delays

i haven’t gone as the flight prices were quite expensive and I wasn’t sure how I stood in regards to them helping out! No staff to ask either at Manchester!

[SJL26779]

meanwhile TOM7418 BHX-EFL, B738 G-FDZU diverted to ZTH, and then had an aborted take off, so is current tech in ZTH, with TOM7419 EFL-BHX, operating out of ZTH instead on B738 G-TAWI, which then diverted to DSA! The knock on effect shows TOM7450 BHX-HER due out at 16:55 now being delayed almost 24 hours, and is now due out on Friday at 16:00

Just wondering if we might see a combined Heraklion flight for East Midland & Birmingham passengers with TOM7442 EMA-HER 17:20 still delayed?

The delayed TOM2300 MAN-AGP on Wamos A332 EC-NCK is currently just taxing out for departure, only 43 hours late..........

on a positive note G-TAWN is show as re-entering service from BHX on Friday morning, so only G-TAWP, G-TUIF & SE-RFZ to return to service!

I wonder if the TUI bosses are having sleepless nights over it?? Total shambles from TUI

The last part of the Aberdeen - Dalaman -Glasgow Dalaman - Aberdeen W flight was cancelled at the last minute last night so those 2 flights need to operate at some point too. It only managed to operate Aberdeen Dalaman Glasgow before the rest was cancelled. The aircraft then repositioned to Aberdeen before operating the normal Friday morning Corfu

[SJL26779]

meanwhile TOM7418 BHX-EFL, B738 G-FDZU diverted to ZTH, and then had an aborted take off, so is current tech in ZTH, with TOM7419 EFL-BHX, operating out of ZTH instead on B738 G-TAWI, which then diverted to DSA! The knock on effect shows TOM7450 BHX-HER due out at 16:55 now being delayed almost 24 hours, and is now due out on Friday at 16:00

Just wondering if we might see a combined Heraklion flight for East Midland & Birmingham passengers with TOM7442 EMA-HER 17:20 still delayed?

The delayed TOM2300 MAN-AGP on Wamos A332 EC-NCK is currently just taxing out for departure, only 43 hours late..........

on a positive note G-TAWN is show as re-entering service from BHX on Friday morning, so only G-TAWP, G-TUIF & SE-RFZ to return to service!

I wonder if the TUI bosses are having sleepless nights over it?? Total shambles from TUI

SE-RFZ is showing live on FR24 in AMM this morning. Fingers crossed its coming back into service.

[silverelise]

I think I'm a bad luck charm - I've got some more friends flying LGW-AYT today and their departure is delayed at least 4 hours. I assume that is due to waiting for an inbound flight ?
TUI have emailed a £6 voucher. Hopefully that's £6 each not £6 between the 4 of them :)

Edit: sounds like the aircraft has gone tech, my friends are being told the aircraft is "waiting for parts".

Does anyone have any info on what has actually happened ?

[Sjf1978]

Sleepless nights whilst the competition cancels 200 flights in one day?


With respect, I think you’re the only one having sleepless nights. Maybe give the Flightradar24 app a rest for a day or so?


“With respect” maybe you should give this forum a rest for a day or so?

[MANFAN]

Finally back from Malaga into Manchester after a 43hr delay!! Landed on a pleasant Wamos A330 at 9.20am, baggage eventually came through at 11.45am!! Absolute nightmare!!

I wish everyone who is due to fly TUI anytime soon the very best of luck!

[SJL26779]

I think I'm a bad luck charm - I've got some more friends flying LGW-AYT today and their departure is delayed at least 4 hours. I assume that is due to waiting for an inbound flight ?
TUI have emailed a £6 voucher. Hopefully that's £6 each not £6 between the 4 of them :)

Edit: sounds like the aircraft has gone tech, my friends are being told the aircraft is "waiting for parts".

Does anyone have any info on what has actually happened ?

What is the flight number please

[silverelise]

TOM642.

They're boarding now, 4 hours late, so whatever the problem was must be fixed. Aircraft is G-TUMO.


Edit: unfortunately all the passengers are now being offloaded, by the time boarding completed it was too late to leave before the crew would have been out of hours, so everyone is being shipped to a hotel for the night.

[Mark J Bowcock]

Finally back from Malaga into Manchester after a 43hr delay!! Landed on a pleasant Wamos A330 at 9.20am, baggage eventually came through at 11.45am!! Absolute nightmare!!

I wish everyone who is due to fly TUI anytime soon the very best of luck!

glad you got home OK! Sadly I couldn’t go

[billyg]

The last part of the Aberdeen - Dalaman -Glasgow Dalaman - Aberdeen W flight was cancelled at the last minute last night so those 2 flights need to operate at some point too. It only managed to operate Aberdeen Dalaman Glasgow before the rest was cancelled. The aircraft then repositioned to Aberdeen before operating the normal Friday morning Corfu

The GLA based 788 is covering it at 16.10 today . Dalaman-Aberdeen pax being bussed north from Glasgow in the early hours I suspect !

[silverelise]

TOM642.

They're boarding now, 4 hours late, so whatever the problem was must be fixed. Aircraft is G-TUMO.


Edit: unfortunately all the passengers are now being offloaded, by the time boarding completed it was too late to leave before the crew would have been out of hours, so everyone is being shipped to a hotel for the night.

They have been bussed to the Hilton at Heathrow and promised they will be flying out tomorrow. Surprised there was not a hotel closer to Gatwick with availability. Hopefully they will get away tomorrow. And hopefully my cousin will manage to get home from Torremolinos today.

[silverelise]

They have been bussed to the Hilton at Heathrow and promised they will be flying out tomorrow. Surprised there was not a hotel closer to Gatwick with availability. Hopefully they will get away tomorrow. And hopefully my cousin will manage to get home from Torremolinos today.

New estimated time of departure is 21:50 local time tonight, so a 38 hour delay if it gets away as estimated. I guess they could spend the day plane spotting at Heathrow before they get bussed back down to Gatwick. :/

[SJL26779]

The GLA based 788 is covering it at 16.10 today . Dalaman-Aberdeen pax being bussed north from Glasgow in the early hours I suspect !

Did the IB Dalaman to Glasgow operate? FR24 shows that the AC travelled to Birmingham once it reached Dalaman

[billyg]

Did the IB Dalaman to Glasgow operate? FR24 shows that the AC travelled to Birmingham once it reached Dalaman

G-TUIB had another 3 hour delay on GLA-DLM , then went to BHX. G-TUII arrived at GLA this morning too do the GLA-CUN and will have 3-4 hour delay !

As for the Dalaman - Aberdeen pax , who knows ?

[vectisman]

Some of you really need to find other things to do during the a day!
Delays and operational problems occur. The industry is recovering after a difficult two years. TUI is not on its own here.

[NickBarnes]

Some of you really need to find other things to do during the a day!
Delays and operational problems occur. The industry is recovering after a difficult two years. TUI is not on its own here.

Agreed its recovering after the last 2 years and TUI is not on its own. But it is hardly doing any harm if people want to post about delays and operational problems. It's just a forum hardly going to damage TUI. This is an Airline, Airports and Routes section, so people are within their rights to post about it. You can certainly tell who works for TUI on these forums and other airline threads that's for sure.

[ImagineIf]

Agreed its recovering after the last 2 years and TUI is not on its own. But it is hardly doing any harm if people want to post about delays and operational problems. It's just a forum hardly going to damage TUI. This is an Airline, Airports and Routes section, so people are within their rights to post about it. You can certainly tell who works for TUI on these forums and other airline threads that's for sure.

Indeed, agree with eveything you just said. Nearly every major airline and airport in the UK and across world is struggling and recovering. After 2 years of stagnation and despite constantly promoting 2022 as the year travel bounces back... it seems the sector has been woefully underprepared and let down massively by other service providers and processes. That said, it's very clear that in the rush to recover and grow again, many operators including TUI have put on huge programs that they don't have the capability of delivering.

Yes we can see other airlines struggling, Easyjet and Jet2 among others but TUI are having truly awful delays here. People's holidays and flights going days late and sometimes not at all. Communication seems to be lacking and the issues snowballing.

I'm not a TUI basher but I do work in the industry and their on time performance is not the best. They operate a huge program with a modest size fleet, only takes 1 tech aircraft to cause a significant ripple effect. Prime example is the 787 fleet during the winter, the aircraft are utilised to the max on long haul routes and they simply can't recover the delays as the week rolls on. That same issue is spilling over into the summer and is amplified by the problems all airlines are having plus the failings of ACMI partners.

I do hope things improve, it's awful to think some people's first holiday in 2 years will start or end in chaos and its very damaging for the airlines reputation.

[vectisman]

Agreed its recovering after the last 2 years and TUI is not on its own. But it is hardly doing any harm if people want to post about delays and operational problems. It's just a forum hardly going to damage TUI. This is an Airline, Airports and Routes section, so people are within their rights to post about it. You can certainly tell who works for TUI on these forums and other airline threads that's for sure.

I do not work for any airline. I am a truly independent commentator.

[ROC10]

This has been posted by TUI on Facebook in response to customer comments:

”Hi, due to various factors causing delays we felt the impact to customers holiday was too great and took the difficult decision to cancel some flights. A full refund will be given ASAP, we understand how disappointing this is and we do apologies for any inconvenience caused. ^Dan”

Their Facebook/Instagram posts are riddled with people complaining about recent delays or stuck in airports with no info. Also people considering cancelling and switching to Jet2 due to news of their recent performance spreading. I truly hope things improve as this will not help their reputation.

[silverelise]

New estimated time of departure is 21:50 local time tonight, so a 38 hour delay if it gets away as estimated. I guess they could spend the day plane spotting at Heathrow before they get bussed back down to Gatwick. :/

Email just received by my friends, informing of an additional delay and a new estimated departure time 23:39 tonight. So 40 hours delay since the original departure time. They are all still in the Hilton at Heathrow wondering if they are going to be bused back to Gatwick today at all, as they are now being bused to another hotel at Heathrow for dinner. If it were me I think I'd be on the verge of giving up at this point, although I'm not sure what the situation is if you cancel before the airline does. I can't help feeling it might be better for TUI to just cancel the flight now and try and claw back some resources - it feels like they are running up a down escalator.

[mattjwood]

Does anyone know what happened to the TOM748 BHX - AYT which was meant to depart at 0600 hours yesterday? It was on the departure board but I cannot find any information on whether it actually took off or not - was it cancelled?

Im due on the same flight this Friday coming and starting to get a little anxious about all these cancellations!

[Danny G]

This from the Guardian today
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/may/28/tui-apologises-for-flight-cancellations-as-uk-faces-half-term-travel-chaos

We are on the CUN flight on Tuesday morning so keeping my fingers crossed.

[Danny G]

also SE-RFZ is positioning back to MAN from AMM after maintainance so hopefully that will take some pressure off the system. It was doing MAN-CUN flights before.

[ROC10]

Does anyone know what happened to the TOM748 BHX - AYT which was meant to depart at 0600 hours yesterday? It was on the departure board but I cannot find any information on whether it actually took off or not - was it cancelled?

Im due on the same flight this Friday coming and starting to get a little anxious about all these cancellations!

According to FR24, it operated today (26 hours late) from BRS-AYT-BRS. No idea whether this is the same flight but it’s showing under TOM748/9 on FR24. I can only assume they bussed the passengers down to BRS and operated it from/to there the following day. Normally would be an unusually bad situation but far from the worst recently unfortunately.

[mattjwood]

According to FR24, it operated today (26 hours late) from BRS-AYT-BRS. No idea whether this is the same flight but it’s showing under TOM748/9 on FR24. I can only assume they bussed the passengers down to BRS and operated it from/to there the following day. Normally would be an unusually bad situation but far from the worst recently unfortunately.

Unbelievable!

[CabinCrewe]

has made it on to main BBC news now… and no sign of things improving.

[brian_dromey]

Im not sure meltdowns are anything particularly new for TOM, right back to the BY days. I seem to remember a TV documentary featuring Britannia and most of the storylines involved delays. I have had the minsfortune to have 2 14 hour delays with TUI (still Thomsonfly back then) on one holiday. Haven't booked a summer package holiday since.
Maybe there is less slack in the system across aircraft/crew and ground staff this year making the problems more widespread across the system.

[Buster the Bear]

Bring back Thomson and Britannia Airways.........

[jethro15]

Bring back Thomson and Britannia Airways.........
Get me back to BHX in the 70's and I'll be straight there. (So would some of my former colleagues).

[Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP]

Mrs Hacker works for TUI. She can see how many flights are uncrewed. Lots of them.

I’m lucky that I have left the industry but it reminds me of constant delays and disruption of the charter industry back in the 90’s. The EU 261 bills will only add to the woes of the operators that are in serious amounts of debt courtesy of covid.

[silverelise]

My friends arrived at their hotel in Turkey about an hour ago. Fair play TUI for eventually getting the LGW-AYT operated 40ish hours late but what a palaver!

[mattjwood]

Mrs Hacker works for TUI. She can see how many flights are uncrewed. Lots of them.

I’m lucky that I have left the industry but it reminds me of constant delays and disruption of the charter industry back in the 90’s. The EU 261 bills will only add to the woes of the operators that are in serious amounts of debt courtesy of covid.

Great - I dont hold out much hope for the BHX-AYT for the 3rd June then!

[hec7or]

The cause of much of charter travel delay and disruption is the resort changeover day concept of the fixed 1 or 2 week break which requires a large number of flights to converge on the destination airport on the same day creating congestion both on the ramp and in the terminal as the flights are timed to arrive in order to deliver passengers to the buses which then head out to the resorts having just brought the inbound passengers from the resorts.

This puts pressure on the airports in terms of check in, baggage handling, security, ramp handling and also ATC both at the airport in terms of parking and runway slots and also en-route. Personally, I think the way ahead is to do away with changeover day altogether and sell more bespoke holidays using the scheduled airlines. (and get rid of the night flights)

[CabinCrewe]

Its always been that way though and rarely as bad as this, so I doubt thats the main issue. There are multiple flights per week now to most of the main med destinations making the once per week changeover far less prominent.
This is a case of poor staffing, undercapacity, bad luck and unexpected demand.

[MANFAN]

We arrived back Friday morning from Malaga after a cancellation from Wednesday morning (43hrs in total). Received e mail from TUI confirming £350 per person compensation and then a separate e mail stating they will also give us a £200 voucher per person if we book a package holiday with them again.
I would personally use TUI again but maybe after the summer when operationally they are hopefully in a better position then,..

[Wycombe]

The cause of much of charter travel delay and disruption is the resort changeover day concept of the fixed 1 or 2 week break which requires a large number of flights to converge on the destination airport on the same day creating congestion both on the ramp and in the terminal as the flights are timed to arrive in order to deliver passengers to the buses which then head out to the resorts having just brought the inbound passengers from the resorts.

This puts pressure on the airports in terms of check in, baggage handling, security, ramp handling and also ATC both at the airport in terms of parking and runway slots and also en-route. Personally, I think the way ahead is to do away with changeover day altogether and sell more bespoke holidays using the scheduled airlines. (and get rid of the night flights)

A similar situation occurs with fly-cruises. We did one out of Malta during the first 2 weeks of April. The majority of the charters to get people to and from MLA from various points in the UK are operated for P&O Cruises by Tui (although they put us on Jet2 flights to and from BHX)

On 6am departure from BHX it seemed that the people on the Tui charter (which operated at the same time give or take 10 mins) faced a much longer queue for check-in than we did with Jet2. Our flight to MLA was full, with probably half of those onboard going to the ship. On arrival in MLA, several other flights arrived at the same time with pax all going to the ship (I estimate around 2000 people) but the operation was pretty good (with lots of Jet2 and P&O Cruises ground staff at the airport to smooth things along).

The real pinch-point was on return to the UK 2 weeks later. Around a dozen flights (mostly Tui and a few Jet2, Easyjet) all departing back to the UK within a few hours window, and the scene at the departure gates in MLA was chaotic, with people standing, sitting (if they were lucky) and lying around wherever they could. It seemed we were sent to the gate area (which is quite small and could not cope) way too early (well before the i/b aircraft had landed) with the resulting scene bordering on a health and safety concern for an hour or so.

Not sure how to solve this one, the flights have to be timed to get people to and from the ship at the right time (its on a 1 day turnaround in port), but the experience (at the end of a good 2 week holiday) was not good.

[Gordon17]

My family and I were due to fly to Menorca yesterday morning at 6.10 with TUI on a package holiday originally booked in 2020 and rolled forwards twice. Got to the airport at 3.15 and found I had received an email and a text at 1.45 am telling me that the flight and the whole holiday was cancelled. It says 350€ compensation and £200 TUI voucher per person, plus full refund. It was pretty chaotic in the terminal with very few staff and big queues building at 4.00 am. Ironically I'm still receiving texts and emails welcoming me to the hotel and warning me about the fire alarm test this morning.

[SWBKCB]

The cause of much of charter travel delay and disruption is the resort changeover day concept of the fixed 1 or 2 week break which requires a large number of flights to converge on the destination airport on the same day creating congestion both on the ramp and in the terminal as the flights are timed to arrive in order to deliver passengers to the buses which then head out to the resorts having just brought the inbound passengers from the resorts.



And its evolved that way because its the cheapest way of doing it. Which tour operator is going to be brave enough to put stick their neck out and put their prices up for a more staggered process?

[ATNotts]

And its evolved that way because its the cheapest way of doing it. Which tour operator is going to be brave enough to put stick their neck out and put their prices up for a more staggered process?

Yes, the "if its Wednesday it must be Tenerife" syndrome. It was always going to be like that back in the days when there were just departures on one or two days each week to the principal resorts. Today however the likes of TUI and Jet2, and Condor and Eurowings in Germany are operating daily to many destinations so surely it ought not be beyond with wit of companies, equipped with state of the art IT systems (???) to be more flexible with the IT operations. Of course another issue is that, by and large, working families want to travel some time between Friday evening and Sunday afternoon allowing them to maximise the benefit of the meagre (in UK) annual leave entitlement that most "enjoy", 3 or more days of which they are required to take in that dead period between Christmas and New Year (that was a real pain when I was office based).

We haven't availed ourselves of a package holiday for 20+ years now; and the idea of holidaying with a bunch of Brits frankly doesn't appeal anymore, if indeed it ever really did. Preferably we travel to destinations where Brits are hardly seen but that is a personal choice, and despite the ease of putting a holiday together for ones self these days, it is one that the majority would appear not to want to make.

[Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP]

My family and I were due to fly to Menorca yesterday morning at 6.10 with TUI on a package holiday originally booked in 2020 and rolled forwards twice. Got to the airport at 3.15 and found I had received an email and a text at 1.45 am telling me that the flight and the whole holiday was cancelled. It says 350€ compensation and £200 TUI voucher per person, plus full refund. It was pretty chaotic in the terminal with very few staff and big queues building at 4.00 am. Ironically I'm still receiving texts and emails welcoming me to the hotel and warning me about the fire alarm test this morning.

Wow. TUI seem to have got this badly wrong. The airline MD (really good guy) put out a video yesterday asking for help from all the crews to get through this period. But unless there are people ready to go in the next few weeks it looks like a torrid summer season ahead. The other issue is third party suppliers. A lot of TUI flights are departing uncatered as their supplier has no staff. The same applies to ground handlers. The fact is that people found better jobs with better pay and without all the crap that is involved with working at an airport.

[WHBM]

On 6am departure from BHX it seemed that the people on the Tui charter (which operated at the same time give or take 10 mins) faced a much longer queue for check-in than we did with Jet2.
Do Jet2 self-handle at Birmingham, as they do at some other places ? I've previously been struck by their check-in area at Stansted, minimal waiting compared to the chaos all around. Everyone else has likely placed their handling contracts with ... yes, the bottom bidder. 90% checked in within 5 minutes is a given price. 90% checked in within 60 minutes is a discount. Which one does the beancounter want ? Jet2 do it the way that their chairman Philip Meeson wants.

Regarding flights concentrated on a destination day of the week, there is an upside here that with them coming from various UK start points on the same day, you don't need to assign the accommodation to given start points, so it can be used by those from Gatwick one week, Cardiff the next, Newcastle the next, etc.

[Mooncrest]

Jet2 do self-handle at Birmingham, as well as Leeds Bradford, East Midlands, Manchester and Stansted. Their other UK bases are covered by handling agents (don't know which).

[hec7or]

And its evolved that way because its the cheapest way of doing it. Which tour operator is going to be brave enough to put stick their neck out and put their prices up for a more staggered process?
You make a very valid point, but 4 years ago I took a 3 day break in Barcelona with the family, we booked flights with a low cost, an apartment in the centre of town booked direct and used public transport, total cost for 2 adults, 2 kids £860, out of interest I looked online to see how much a tour operator would charge, Thomas Cook was £2400 (£599pp)and the accommodation was in a Travelodge. Make of that what you will.

[CabinCrewe]

Jet2 do self-handle at Birmingham, as well as Leeds Bradford, East Midlands, Manchester and Stansted. Their other UK bases are covered by handling agents (don't know which).
Jet 2 self handle at GLA

[Yeehaw22]

Jet 2 self handle at GLA

No they don't.

It's a bit of a hybrid setup with jet2 branded steps but menzies are the ground handlers

[mattjwood]

Did a bit of digging on TUI website with regards to my flight (TOM748 BHX - AYT on 3rd June).

When I initially booked the flights some 5 months ago, the only "good daytime" flights to that region were on a Friday, and the same flight from BHX 0600 hours was consistent every Friday throughout Mid May and into July.

I have just checked the booking engine and this Friday's flight (my one) has disappeared, along with all AYT flights on a Friday for TUI.

However.... an extra flight to AYT has appeared on Saturdays, starting next Saturday 14th June departing BHX at 0600 (Exact same time as our Friday flight). This seems to be consistent weekly. When we booked this flight wasnt available.

So, surely that says that TUI have done away with the Friday flights for some unknown reason, and are running them on Saturday's, meaning that our flight this Friday is more than likely going to be cancelled, as surely the following Friday there will be no TUI aircraft to bring us home, as that wouldnt be departing from BHX until the Saturday morning?

Seriously, I dont know why they cant give assurances with only a few days to go. It really disrupts families, especially those with young children by telling them to come to the Airport at Silly O'clock and then sending them home!

Rant over.

[ATNotts]

mattjwood,

At the cost of an undoubtedly infuriating wait listening to hold music I would suggest that calling TUI for clarification might in the long run be worthwhile, for the sake of your sanity and blood pressure on Friday.

[ROC10]

Did a bit of digging on TUI website with regards to my flight (TOM748 BHX - AYT on 3rd June).

When I initially booked the flights some 5 months ago, the only "good daytime" flights to that region were on a Friday, and the same flight from BHX 0600 hours was consistent every Friday throughout Mid May and into July.

I have just checked the booking engine and this Friday's flight (my one) has disappeared, along with all AYT flights on a Friday for TUI.

However.... an extra flight to AYT has appeared on Saturdays, starting next Saturday 14th June departing BHX at 0600 (Exact same time as our Friday flight). This seems to be consistent weekly. When we booked this flight wasnt available.

So, surely that says that TUI have done away with the Friday flights for some unknown reason, and are running them on Saturday's, meaning that our flight this Friday is more than likely going to be cancelled, as surely the following Friday there will be no TUI aircraft to bring us home, as that wouldnt be departing from BHX until the Saturday morning?

Seriously, I dont know why they cant give assurances with only a few days to go. It really disrupts families, especially those with young children by telling them to come to the Airport at Silly O'clock and then sending them home!

Rant over.

TUI’s timetable shows BHX-AYT weekly on Fridays at 06:00 from 10 June until end of September. Might just be that the flight on 3 June is full hence why it’s not showing? Either way, as suggested, I’d call them as their ops have been pretty chaotic lately so worth attempting to find out.

[mattjwood]

TUI’s timetable shows BHX-AYT weekly on Fridays at 06:00 from 10 June until end of September. Might just be that the flight on 3 June is full hence why it’s not showing? Either way, as suggested, I’d call them as their ops have been pretty chaotic lately so worth attempting to find out.
Yeh but their booking engine doesnt allow you to select BHX - AYT anymore for any friday.

I have spoken with TUI who stated that its still going ahead (Which I guessed they would say that regardless).

PS.... I have been humming that hold music since 9am this morning.

[Vokes55]

Seriously, I dont know why they cant give assurances with only a few days to go. It really disrupts families, especially those with young children by telling them to come to the Airport at Silly O'clock and then sending them home!

Rant over.

The flight isn’t showing because it’s fully booked. Why do you need assurance, if you haven’t heard anything then the flight is planned to go ahead as scheduled.

Calm down.

[Vokes55]

Yeh but their booking engine doesnt allow you to select BHX - AYT anymore for any friday.

I have spoken with TUI who stated that its still going ahead (Which I guessed they would say that regardless).

PS.... I have been humming that hold music since 9am this morning.

Because it’s full. Why would the booking engine allow you to select a flight if there’s no seats left?

[mattjwood]

The flight isn’t showing because it’s fully booked. Why do you need assurance, if you haven’t heard anything then the flight is planned to go ahead as scheduled.

Calm down.

I dont think you read my posts properly.... unless you mean that every single Friday flight to AYT throughout the next few months is full? It doesnt show on the website anymore, for any friday.

Edit:

Just checked the website again.... seems as though Friday's have re-appeared on their website!

[Vokes55]

I dont think you read my posts properly.... unless you mean that every single Friday flight to AYT throughout the next few months is full? It doesnt show on the website anymore, for any friday.

Edit:

Just checked the website again.... seems as though Friday's have re-appeared on their website!

I checked a random date in August and it was there. A lot of these flights sold out in January/February

[mattjwood]

I checked a random date in August and it was there. A lot of these flights sold out in January/February
Yeh Yesterday none were on the system for Fridays, so fingers crossed now!

[WHBM]

The flight isn’t showing because it’s fully booked. Why do you need assurance, if you haven’t heard anything then the flight is planned to go ahead as scheduled.
In significant part because a public transport operator is expected to produce a TIMETABLE, for all sorts of reasons (like people meeting you at the airport), showing what services they are providing. For goodness sake, Thomson used to manage this on a printed page in their holiday brochures in the 1970s - nowadays it should be a piece of cake to show this electronically.

It's organisations where the operations side has been trumped by the sales people, who think the only reason for the whole website is to sell. It's bad enough when the schedule detail shown is a hack of the booking system, worse when anything not sold is not shown. Sometimes I have to advise people to resort to FlightRadar24 to get their departure and arrival details.

[Vokes55]

In significant part because a public transport operator is expected to produce a TIMETABLE, for all sorts of reasons (like people meeting you at the airport), showing what services they are providing. For goodness sake, Thomson used to manage this on a printed page in their holiday brochures in the 1970s - nowadays it should be a piece of cake to show this electronically.

It's organisations where the operations side has been trumped by the sales people, who think the only reason for the whole website is to sell. It's bad enough when the schedule detail shown is a hack of the booking system, worse when anything not sold is not shown. Sometimes I have to advise people to resort to FlightRadar24 to get their departure and arrival details.

Erm there is a timetable on the website.

Hope the pointless rant made you feel better.

[Danny G]

Does anyone know the staus of todays Cancun flight from Manchester, it was showing 1500 departure and I had heard via another route it has been cancelled due to baggage being lost. Pax being put in hotel and try again tomorrow.

Will this have a knock on for tomorrows flight? I ask because we are on it. Looking at tommorows departures there areonly 2 787-9 departures but 3 aircraft.

Thanks in advance

[ROC10]

Erm there is a timetable on the website.

Hope the pointless rant made you feel better.

In fairness, the timetable doesn’t appear to show fully booked flights. Unless you have a link to a different one?

[WHBM]

Erm there is a timetable on the website.
Let's see the link then.

[pabely]

Does anyone know the staus of todays Cancun flight from Manchester, it was showing 1500 departure and I had heard via another route it has been cancelled due to baggage being lost. Pax being put in hotel and try again tomorrow.

Will this have a knock on for tomorrows flight? I ask because we are on it. Looking at tommorows departures there areonly 2 787-9 departures but 3 aircraft.

Thanks in advance
TUI arrivals/departures shows TOM192 Estimated Departure 17:00 but FR24 shows it pushing back now

[P330]

Let's see the link then.

Go to the TUI website, select flights and there is a timetable option. Been there for a long time; use it a lot when we are optioneering where to go.

[Vokes55]

Let's see the link then.

https://www.tui.co.uk/flight/timetable

https://www.tui.co.uk/flight/arrivals-and-departures

Not that I know of anybody who uses a Timetable to know when to pick somebody up from the airport. The passenger's own booking confirmation, boarding pass or the Arrivals and Departures above would be the most obvious resource, as well as either the departure or arrival airport's website. Much of the schedule information on FR24 is wrong, so that's the last place I'd advise people to look.

[MANFAN]

Are there a list of TUI flights available that have been cancelled for June?
A friend is on Thursday’s Cancun flight from Manchester (hopefully), but not received any cancellation e mail…so all being well is still going…

[mattjwood]

Pretty sure I seen earlier that TUI are cancelling 6 flights from MAN per day for the next 6 weeks or so. I dont think a list has been published though.

[P330]

According to BBC; TUI will cancel 6 flights a day from Manchester until the end of June.

Terrible news for those holidaymakers. As most are likely to be IT charter passengers that is full holidays ruined; not just flights.

6 x 30 x 189 equates to 34,000 lost holidays using my maths!

[WHBM]

6 flights a day sounds like 3 aircraft stood down. There is capacity available from other operators in various countries, but presumably not at a price TUI's board are prepared to pay. Yes, they will lose money. Yes, some ACMI owner will be able to buy their second yacht on the strength of it. But you have sold your product and now have to honour your commitments. All a bit surprising given that even in the IT world a good 10-15% of business typically comes in the last few weeks before departure.

Harry Goodman at Intasun used to do this, wait until others had firmed up contracts and then come in and offer the airlines and hotels less to pick up the remaining capacity. Somehow he always managed to get away with it, the failure of Air Europe was due to other reasons.

[SWBKCB]

6 x 30 x 189 equates to 34,000 lost holidays using my maths!

Flights cancelled doesn't necessarily mean holidays lost - you're assuming all flights are full and there is no scope to consolidate onto other flights, even if it means changes of day/airports, etc

[P330]

Flights cancelled doesn't necessarily mean holidays lost - you're assuming all flights are full and there is no scope to consolidate onto other flights, even if it means changes of day/airports, etc

You’re right; hopefully the view is worse case. Still, looking pretty rough for those customers affected.

[Jamesair1]

Although the cancelled flights and lost holidays get maximum press coverage it should be remembered that industry wide 98.5% of flights are operated without major problems, or so I am led to believe.

[ROC10]

Flights cancelled doesn't necessarily mean holidays lost - you're assuming all flights are full and there is no scope to consolidate onto other flights, even if it means changes of day/airports, etc

That doesn’t seem to be happening at the moment. Police reading statements to passengers at the gate telling them their holidays are cancelled and will be escorted to baggage reclaim. They will be refunded and get a £200 voucher *if* they book another TUI holiday (I imagine many wouldn’t dream of that). Many people need to take annual leave which can’t just be moved at the drop of a hat so will have lost their holiday this year.

[ATNotts]

Flights cancelled doesn't necessarily mean holidays lost - you're assuming all flights are full and there is no scope to consolidate onto other flights, even if it means changes of day/airports, etc

And much more likely change of destination. That won't matter to many who don't mind where they go as long is its hot and sunny but will pee off anyone who booked to say Santorini because they wanted to go there. Crete might be a rather poor alternative for them!

The situation this summer is a nightmare, and I would imagine many people will be thinking long and hard about booking a package holiday next summer - even if they aren't already because of they size of their utility and food bills. Summer 2023 may not look too pretty, not just for TUI but for the whole package tour industry, and possibly also for independent travel.

I think that in some regard the government, in essentially giving the (false) message that Covid-19 was over, has lulled holidaymakers and operators into a false sense of security. The UK government isn't the only one of course but it did make one heck of a song and dance about lifting restrictions, and anecdotally I am currently seeing many more people wearing masks once again in shops, suggesting that perhaps they are going out and about while infected, or they are seeing more infections in their own circles of friends and relatives and are once again taking precautions off their own bats. Personally I haven't encountered anyone who is knowingly infected for a few months now.

[ICEHOUSES]

3 TUI flights cancelled today from MAN so far, anybody know the reason for this? Shortage of aircraft/Crews/Ground handling problems or a combination?

[ROC10]

3 TUI flights cancelled today from MAN so far, anybody know the reason for this? Shortage of aircraft/Crews/Ground handling problems or a combination?

They are cancelling 6 flights a day from MAN until the end of June (hopefully not at the gate).

[Vokes55]

6 flights a day sounds like 3 aircraft stood down. There is capacity available from other operators in various countries, but presumably not at a price TUI's board are prepared to pay. Yes, they will lose money. Yes, some ACMI owner will be able to buy their second yacht on the strength of it. But you have sold your product and now have to honour your commitments.

You’re missing two points though. The first is that the ACMI operators, bar the odd exception (Titan), have been an absolute liability and have caused the majority of the problems from the outset. Even Jet2 aren’t immune to that, with two of their Smartlynx flights from BHX being cancelled yesterday amongst their own delays. A lot (not all) of TUI’s problems have come from trying to fight fires caused by the ACMI’s inability to fulfil their commitments.

The second is that Manchester just can’t cope with the numbers, whether that’s check in, security, airside handling. The place isn’t fit for purpose, so taking three lines of flying out is just designed to thin the numbers a bit, cut the long queues at check in - pictures of which seem to find themselves into the Mail on a daily basis - as well as taking pressure off the crewing and aircraft availability pinch points.

The majority of customers affected will be able to rebook for the same period, as they’ve been given enough notice. Those cancelled within two weeks will receive EU261 as well. Quite frankly it’s what they should’ve done two weeks ago, rather than let it knock on this badly.

[WHBM]

The majority of customers affected will be able to rebook for the same period, as they’ve been given enough notice. Those cancelled within two weeks will receive EU261 as well. Quite frankly it’s what they should’ve done two weeks ago, rather than let it knock on this badly.
But you can't just do that as a business selling "dream holidays" (their expression - and on the "Dreamliner"), and then get out of it at the last minute with "yeah, well, you'll receive EU261", itself something the industry always seems to begrudge, but god knows what would be done to the clients if it wasn't there. They're not running Soviet-era Aeroflot, you know. It's wholly up to the carrier to have ALL the resources in place to honour their commitments - something the CAA used to patrol rigorously (I can remember someone having to end up subchartering in a 737 to cover a half-full- F50).

[Yeehaw22]

Sensible move imo. The only surprise to me is they haven't trimmed capacity elsewhere too. Better to cancel with a few weeks notice rather than the trauma of finding out at the airport.

More and more crew will be through training, more aircraft available and hopefully the airports will be better by the time the end of June rolls round.

It's still been incredibly poor planning and prep from tui, but they have also fell victim to the problems out of their control. Maybe it's also time they took a leaf out of their main rivals book and looked at taking more control and responsibility in house regarding ground handling. MAN/BHX/LGW and possibly BRS are big enough bases to warrant it and see the benefits.

[Expo737]

And much more likely change of destination. That won't matter to many who don't mind where they go as long is its hot and sunny but will pee off anyone who booked to say Santorini because they wanted to go there. Crete might be a rather poor alternative for them!


Yes, this exactly! Today's Manchester to Skiathos has been cancelled and that's a destination visited mainly by regulars who go year after year (myself included). The Skiathos Facebook groups that I am in have exploded this morning with word of the cancellation, lots of very angry people and I don't blame them. There's not much by way of flights with other carriers either, from Manchester there are Jet2 and the BA Citiflier weekend special.

[Vokes55]

Yes, this exactly! Today's Manchester to Skiathos has been cancelled and that's a destination visited mainly by regulars who go year after year (myself included). The Skiathos Facebook groups that I am in have exploded this morning with word of the cancellation, lots of very angry people and I don't blame them. There's not much by way of flights with other carriers either, from Manchester there are Jet2 and the BA Citiflier weekend special.

It might not seem it on a Skiathos Facebook group, but people like that are generally in the minority. Most will care more about the hotel than which island they go to.

Unfortunately Skiathos was always going to be an obvious contender as it’s a restricted airport and only a small number of captains are qualified to fly there, which reduces flexibility even more and essentially rules out sub-chartering.


Maybe it's also time they took a leaf out of their main rivals book and looked at taking more control and responsibility in house regarding ground handling. MAN/BHX/LGW and possibly BRS are big enough bases to warrant it and see the benefits.

Jet2 have performed even worse over the past 2-3 days, especially out of BHX and MAN, so don’t be under any illusion they’re immune from any of this. And BA at LHR are an example that self handling alone doesn’t always solve your problems.

[Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP]

Flights cancelled doesn't necessarily mean holidays lost - you're assuming all flights are full and there is no scope to consolidate onto other flights, even if it means changes of day/airports, etc

Without a doubt TUI are getting a pasting in the media. More so than Jet2 who are now their biggest rival. I'd be interested to see how this has affected booking levels. Surely people are going to think twice before trusting TUI with their package holiday bookings.

[caaardiff]

Today's CWL-TFS cancelled while the passengers sat on the tech aircraft for 3 hours. Texts came through before staff knew. Cancelling and not overnighting just shows there's no slack to deal with things. TUIs operation is a complete mess at the moment.

[Yeehaw22]

I'd be interested to see how this has affected booking levels. Surely people are going to think twice before trusting TUI with their package holiday bookings.

Everyone said that during the covid crisis. Doesn't seemed to have affected bookings in the short term at least.

Agree though on the jet2 point. They are having to some extent the same issues but a better approach to customer service keeps them out of the media and moaning on here I guess.

Over the weekend they cancelled around 2-3% of flights. A lot less than some other airlines but seems to garner a lot more interest on here?

[LBAflyer22]

It might not seem it on a Skiathos Facebook group, but people like that are generally in the minority. Most will care more about the hotel than which island they go to.

Unfortunately Skiathos was always going to be an obvious contender as it’s a restricted airport and only a small number of captains are qualified to fly there, which reduces flexibility even more and essentially rules out sub-chartering.

Jet2 have performed even worse over the past 2-3 days, especially out of BHX and MAN, so don’t be under any illusion they’re immune from any of this. And BA at LHR are an example that self handling alone doesn’t always solve your problems.

Your correct about Skiathos been an obvious contender. But wouldn't the operator rather keep that going and sub charter off something else such as an easy PMI or TFS or something?

Re: Jet2, whilst the MAN/BHX problems have been bad last few days, I'm yet to see them cancel a flight. They seem to have a lot more flexibility when something does fall over to rescue flights without then carrying delays on and into the programme for days if not weeks on end.

I'm not a TUI basher at all, I want them to succeed and grow. But I think they need a strong change in operational outlook. A fleet order is needed and a different operational outlook also needed. I'm not suggesting they follow Jet2's path and have standby's upon standbys which sometimes it feels like they do have, but at least have 1 in the north and 1 in the south to cover the operational requirement. Heck didn't easyJet begin looking if not confirm they were due to do that for S20. Have not a standby but operational spare aircraft to put flights onto/set something up to position/recuse flights if it was to fall over?

[Yeehaw22]

The plan was to have spare aircraft in the fleet. 1 x 789 and 1 x 738 if memory serves. However a number of circumstances have conspired against this. Late deliveries of aircraft being the primary one. 3rd party providers falling over. A/c damaged by ground equipment and of course a shortage of crews.

[LBAflyer22]

I think that in some regard the government, in essentially giving the (false) message that Covid-19 was over,

No false message covid is over. It is over. it is only flu - if people want to live like it's the most dangerous virus in the world I say to them, carry on. But please don't force me to live like that for a flu like disease. Before you come at me - most people that died with covid had some under lying health condition.

The government should be firmly blamed for the lack of help regarding the aviation sector/airlines over the course of 2 years. Constantly ignoring them and then Shapps having his 3 coloured traffic light system which turned into 108338 colours and making it up on the spot as he went along. With a lack of support, a lack of vision from this government to re-open travel, consistent chopping and changing of rules and entry requirements of not only our country but others, the stupidity of having to test to depart and arrive back into the uk as only far back as February, you name it, it hampered the airlines and airports recruitment drive. The idiots in government, after getting bored of playing around with aviation/wrecking peoples lives/playing and having fun with wrecking peoples holidays, that we could all go on holiday, aviation industry to return back to 2019 levels. Oh and Priti Patel launched some new rules regarding obtaining airside passes.
If only the industry had been campaigning for help, assistance and for the government to work with them, not against them, maybe some of this could have been avoided.

And now we've got Rishi saying he'll help us, the industry. The Arsonist turned fire fighter .... no thanks Rishi. Your narcissistic self entitled hands have done more than enough damage.....

[LBAflyer22]

The plan was to have spare aircraft in the fleet. 1 x 789 and 1 x 738 if memory serves. However a number of circumstances have conspired against this. Late deliveries of aircraft being the primary one. 3rd party providers falling over. A/c damaged by ground equipment and of course a shortage of crews.

Ahhh. I did think they might of been planning this. So in effect they are using the spare aircraft in the fleet then.

[Vokes55]

Yes, the two spare aircraft are currently in KBFI and Victorville, significantly delayed by Boeing.

As for Skiathos, the problem is the inflexibility. If the airline only has, say, 10 JSI trained captains then there is absolutely no scope for them to be moved onto other duties that would jeopardise the JSI. And when they do go sick/fatigued/out of hours, there’s only a small pool of people able to cover, so there’s a high probability it would end up being delayed anyway. And I know the obvious answer is to train more people for Skiathos, but there is absolutely no spare capacity in anybody’s training program for that after the Covid shutdown.

Agree with everything you say about the government though. They’ve proven how quickly they’re willing to turn the aviation industry off, who in their right mind would take a low paid job loading bags or sitting in a windowless room for 12 hours frisking people and asking passenger after passenger if they’ve taken their liquids out of their bags, when they can get a far more secure job at Amazon (or sit on the dole). Plenty of cabin crew have left the industry for more secure roles at estate agents etc, and replacing all of these people requires vetting by, who else, a government agency.

[ManUtd1999]

It's wholly up to the carrier to have ALL the resources in place to honour their commitments - something the CAA used to patrol rigorously (I can remember someone having to end up subchartering in a 737 to cover a half-full- F50).

It has been obvious for a while (since at least January) that travel restrictions would be lifted this summer. It should not have been a surprise to a tour operator that people want to go on holiday for the first time in two years.

At what point can a case be made that TUI (and many other travel operators) were selling tickets that they had no realistic hope of being able to deliver?

[Jaf4fa]

Would anybody “in the know” be able to tell me how to find out if the JTR on 7 June TOM 2254 is scheduled to go? 😳😳😳

[Matt995]

The plan was to have spare aircraft in the fleet. 1 x 789 and 1 x 738 if memory serves. However a number of circumstances have conspired against this. Late deliveries of aircraft being the primary one. 3rd party providers falling over. A/c damaged by ground equipment and of course a shortage of crews.

As mentioned in my previous post, TUI was planning to operate 80 aircraft, of which 78 was needed daily, and as mentioned above leaves a spare 789 & 738.

However 788 G-TUIF has been out of service for almost 2 weeks, 738 G-TAWP is still at St Athan, not entered service, & The Max G-TUMP is due to be delivered on the 11th June, so that's 3 aircraft short.

738 G-TAWO has been out of service since Thursday, issue in Dubrovnik, and has only just been flown to Prestwick, possibly for work on it?

add the fact that the planned A321 from Smartlynx due to be based at Manchester, looks like its not going to happen, so is currently replaced by an A320 at present, so it means the current planned fleet is at present down 4 aircraft, hence the need to lease in other aircraft, ie Air Tanker, Privilege Style, Neos etc. & therefore no spare aircraft capacity.

Hopefully come July all these aircraft will be back in service, and maybe the new dreamliner G-TUIP maybe delivered, if Boeing gets the clearance to start delivering them again!

[Dannyboy39]

Dare I say that 2 spare aircraft for a fleet of 80 was never going to be enough? I’d argue, especially in the summer season you need 1 spare for every 20. Especially at the levels of utilisation needed in the high season.

[rog747]

Would anybody “in the know” be able to tell me how to find out if the JTR on 7 June TOM 2254 is scheduled to go? 😳😳😳

If you get cancelled by TUI then Jet2 have a late afternoon direct flight available (same day) £41 at the mo....

Easy Jet has one the day before, and on the day after, both early morning -

and on Weds night Aegean fly MAN to ATH at 0035 with good connections to JTR and also to Paros by 0905 that morning - It is a night flight, but the ATH airport is fully open for a coffee/breakfast. Your bags will be checked through.
If you go to Paros you will easily get a Blue Star ferry over to Santorini that morning.

Skyscanner will be your flights friend. Obs TUI will cancel your holiday hotel but frankly just call the hotel direct to try and get your room back and just pay them direct.

Best of luck.
if you need Greek ferries then Openseas.gr are a great tool

EDIT -
07 JUNE MAN-JTR-MAN with TUI is NOT now showing up on their Flight Timetable, but that may not actually mean its canned -
TUI have very cheap one way flights to JTR on 4 7 and 9 June from BHX BRS and EMA

[ATNotts]

No false message covid is over. It is over. it is only flu - if people want to live like it's the most dangerous virus in the world I say to them, carry on. But please don't force me to live like that for a flu like disease. Before you come at me - most people that died with covid had some under lying health condition.



This discussion must not turn into another Covid thread, however you are 100% wrong in that statement, although a great many people did 'die with covid" rather than from it.

However I don't believe you understood entirely what I meant to convey from my posting; probably I didn't make it clear. The point is that government gave a very clear message that Covid-19 had finished, whereas the truth was and remains that with cases around 1 in 60 of the population it is still in wide circulation even today. On the ground the true situation is that businesses, for the most part didn't and still don't want infected people, especially those who are "customer facing" at work while infected so put in fairly strong internal rules about staying at home. The public's expectations, because of the way the government "ended the bad dream" were way beyond what the travel industry could deliver, and the travel industry, keen to recoup losses from the last two years merrily took bookings on the basis that, despite their policies on employee health regarding Covid, they'd be able to deal with a boom in travel.

Thus a perfect storm has been created

[Snr]

Agree with everything you say about the government though. They’ve proven how quickly they’re willing to turn the aviation industry off, who in their right mind would take a low paid job loading bags or sitting in a windowless room for 12 hours frisking people and asking passenger after passenger if they’ve taken their liquids out of their bags, when they can get a far more secure job at Amazon (or sit on the dole). Plenty of cabin crew have left the industry for more secure roles at estate agents etc, and replacing all of these people requires vetting by, who else, a government agency.

You're right. The Industry has for too long relied on workers love of aviation to get away with ever eroding T&Cs, and with the forced break and change over the past two years, many are realising it's just not worth it. Personally, I'm early enough in my career that I was always going to come back, but if I was closer to retirement I may have thought twice about 3am alarms, working evenings and weekends, missing life events, no last minute leave requests, delays, disruption etc etc....

[GAXLN]

Dare I say that 2 spare aircraft for a fleet of 80 was never going to be enough? I’d argue, especially in the summer season you need 1 spare for every 20. Especially at the levels of utilisation needed in the high season.

I totally agree that two standby aircraft, one long haul and one short haul, for a fleet of eighty aircraft is ridiculous. Someone needs to be held accountable for that decision. While the cost of additional aircraft and crews needs to be accounted for, the financial decision is made much easier to justify by the cost of goodwill and EU261 payments that would accrue without the standby aircraft.

I also totally agree with comments about the Government’s culpability in all this. It was not just furlough payments that the industry needed help on. It needed more help to recapitalise given the stream of money that floods out of the door in respect of leasing payments and other costs without revenues flooding the other way during a period most aircraft were not flying. Similarly for airports, although their situation was more to do with interest payments on the debt in their businesses. The Government did not get it at the time, and still clearly does not. If I were Grant Shapps, I would roll my neck back in on this. It is not all the airports and airlines and their agents fault. We are here because the Government never really engaged with the industry and worked in partnership to see it through to better times. It appeared a very confrontational relationship, which left me wondering whether it was being driven from an environmental perspective rather than what was best for UK plc in these difficult times. I suspect one or two people might have been burnishing their environmental credentials if it ever got to a Cabinet discussion about the matter, but who knows.

We are where we are. The industry is always great at working in a crisis. This one needs to be sorted as quickly as possible, as there are already a lot of people out there who are saying, “you know what, I can’t be bothered with going abroad this year”. You would be surprised how many are saying this but that is what I am hearing a lot in my job, it is not a small number and every time it comes up in the papers or on TV more form the same view. Winning them back next year, and others who have had a bad experience this year, may not be easy and the work has to start now by getting this turned round and sharpish.

Finally, this Government is loving the opportunity to keep other news off the front page so, perhaps, no surprise Shapps has been particularly vocal in recent days. I trust voters will not forget when the next time comes to vote for our elected representatives. We need decent, honourable politicians who put the needs of the country, and not themselves, first. At present, Ministers want to cling on in their comparatively well paid positions as, without Boris, where would they be?

Rant over!

[tourops]

It has been obvious for a while (since at least January) that travel restrictions would be lifted this summer. It should not have been a surprise to a tour operator that people want to go on holiday for the first time in two years.

At what point can a case be made that TUI (and many other travel operators) were selling tickets that they had no realistic hope of being able to deliver?

I don't think TUI or any other operators knowingly sold holidays and flights that they had no realistic hope of providing. Back on 28 January the TUI UK press office were trumpeting that they were ready for a bumper booking weekend, with an underlying message that seemed to say 'book now or lose out'. Thinking that they had a few months to recruit and train up people probably didn't seem unreasonable but suddenly we are at the start of summer and for whatever reason those new recruits haven't materialised. Is there some delay getting security checks done for airside personnel ? After being largely left high and dry during the pandemic have people turned to more secure forms of employment ? Much like the hospitality industry are people not interested in starting work at silly o'clock for not much more than the minimum wage and, in many cases, on a short-term 3 or 4 month contract ?

[Mr @ Spotty M]

GAXLN,
Not laughed so hard for ages with your comments on MPs.
No idea what planet you are on, but for decent, honourable politicians.
When you find some be sure to let the world know. :ugh:

[alfaaloop]

You're right. The Industry has for too long relied on workers love of aviation to get away with ever eroding T&Cs, and with the forced break and change over the past two years, many are realising it's just not worth it. Personally, I'm early enough in my career that I was always going to come back, but if I was closer to retirement I may have thought twice about 3am alarms, working evenings and weekends, missing life events, no last minute leave requests, delays, disruption etc etc....

You’ve hit the nail on the head there. My aviation career began over 30 years ago, starting on the ramp, working alongside guys with 20 years service! It was a well paid job but companies come and go, always with lower Ts and Cs than the previous until we get where we are now. Even the love of aviation doesn’t cut it when you can’t pay the bills( or keep your eyes open after the 6th 3AM start in a row). Options outside aviation are plentiful with better lifestyle and reward than is currently offered unfortunately.

[VickersVicount]

Passengers to a certain extent are to blame now for complaining about 4hr flights costing more than £100. You can barely buy decent trainers for that price.

[NickBarnes]

You’ve hit the nail on the head there. My aviation career began over 30 years ago, starting on the ramp, working alongside guys with 20 years service! It was a well paid job but companies come and go, always with lower Ts and Cs than the previous until we get where we are now. Even the love of aviation doesn’t cut it when you can’t pay the bills( or keep your eyes open after the 6th 3AM start in a row). Options outside aviation are plentiful with better lifestyle and reward than is currently offered unfortunately.


Exactly this, my friend was cabin crew as covid hit and was made redundant. So he had to retrain as something else. He chose to train as a HGV Class 1 driver and now says he would never go back. He was earning 25k per year as cabin crew, required to work weekends, bank holidays, early mornings and late at night, long delays, rude pax etc. Now he works Mon - Fri, starts at 7am scheduled to finish at 5pm sometimes goes onto 6pm but is paid overtime rate if he does. Always off Saturday and Sunday and all Bank Holidays. I realise not all HGV jobs are like that and he is lucky to pick up one with that schedule but also he is now on 35k a year 10k more than previously, with evenings and weekend's with his wife/children and loves it, the best thing he said aswell is job stability he doesn't have to worry the same as he did before. So I think my point is listening to his experience, you can imagine a lot of people have found the grass is greener outside aviation and this is a problem now facing the sector not just TUI but all airlines unfortunately.
​​​

[CabinCrewe]

Meanwhile forgetting their current misadventures, TUI to launch LGW-Dakar Senegal from Nov 22. Nice long trek on a cramped 737.

[azz767]

Hi Fly operating the MAN - CUN today, I’m assuming to give SE-RFZ a chance to get back on schedule after leaving at least 4-5 hours late all week and not being able to catch up.

[SJL26779]

G-TUIO is operating today's NCL - MLB which is a 789. NCL is usually a 788.

[pabely]

Meanwhile forgetting their current misadventures, TUI to launch LGW-Dakar Senegal from Nov 22. Nice long trek on a cramped 737.
Just a shade more than Marsa Alam (RMF) before they fell out with the airport, but if there was unfavourable winds they could drop into Hurghada for a splash & dash.
I don't think anyone else does the route non stop so might pick up some flight only demand on this route.

[ROC10]

Just a shade more than Marsa Alam (RMF) before they fell out with the airport, but if there was unfavourable winds they could drop into Hurghada for a splash & dash.
I don't think anyone else does the route non stop so might pick up some flight only demand on this route.

Not as far as Banjul in The Gambia which they operated throughout W21/22 from MAN and LGW on the 737.

[P330]

How does it compare to Cape Verde which is also often ran on 737s?

[pabely]

How does it compare to Cape Verde which is also often ran on 737s?
You are correct, Cape Verde is further.
Bring back the 757s!

[SALENO]

Returned yesterday from Chania to Manchester on Privilege Style B757. Superb flight and better than any previous TUI and always nice to be back on the 757. The aircraft was smart and the crew very professional and aided by 2 TUI crew for the service. Flight also on time which we were surprised about and bags even on the belt by the time we got to the arrivals hall. The piles of bags around the hall however highlighted the ongoing issues. Hope things start to improve for everyone as some of the horror stories we heard in resort were horrendous.

[JKKne]

I had the dreaded email today for one of my flight only bookings. Ominous important information email header

Turns out it was to advise me of an aircraft change to a 737 (which I was always flying on which is confusing!) but on a plus I was able to secure the back row (which I know some hate but I really enjoy)

my old heart nearly gave way at that email header tho

[WHBM]

It's one thing cancelling people's outwards bookings at the last minute, but what about those coming home on the aircraft's return flight ? Are they being left high and dry in the resorts ?

[Vokes55]

It's one thing cancelling people's outwards bookings at the last minute, but what about those coming home on the aircraft's return flight ? Are they being left high and dry in the resorts ?

No. Ferry flights have been going out all week to take people home on their original schedules.

Unlike easyJet and Wizzair.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/flight-chaos-gatwick-luton-easyjet-b2094211.html?amp

[WHBM]

No. Ferry flights have been going out all week to take people home on their original schedules.


So why on earth are the outbound "ferry flights", presumably fully crewed for the return, not taking passengers outbound ?

[Vokes55]

So why on earth are the outbound "ferry flights", presumably fully crewed for the return, not taking passengers outbound ?

Because they’ve cancelled certain flights for the month to stabilise the rest of the program at Manchester and if they take passengers today they’ll need to pick them up next week.

[humpy123]

Can anyone give any information regarding the TUI flights out of Dublin. Flights are been delayed constantly and cancelled last minute, is it the fault of smartlynx or is it ground crew problems.

[CabinCrewe]

what maintenance ‘business’ does TUI have at PIK.. seems to be a regular throughput and a 737 stuck there. Would have thought TUI would do all their own bigger adhoc maintenance at LTN. A new role for PIK?

[SALENO]

Because they’ve cancelled certain flights for the month to stabilise the rest of the program at Manchester and if they take passengers today they’ll need to pick them up next week.
Also to return the thousands of passengers already in resorts, otherwise they would have further problems I guess. Our return last week (Privilege Style B757) came out empty and very strange seeing an aircraft arrive and no unloading of baggage or passengers - quick turnaround though :)

[2Planks]

Looks like its not got off to a good start this morning, assuming the 7700 reporting is accurate

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1622262/TUI-Airways-emergency-Flight-BY245-Portugal-Bristol-squawk-code-7700-UK-updates-latest/amp

[Matt995]

Looks like its not got off to a good start this morning, assuming the 7700 reporting is accurate

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1622262/TUI-Airways-emergency-Flight-BY245-Portugal-Bristol-squawk-code-7700-UK-updates-latest/amp

Just a normal diversion due to weather (crosswinds) at Bristol, and then maybe low fuel hence the 7700 squawk? Aircraft G-TUIC is now currently on route BHX-CUN, so no tech issue with aircraft, and presumably the passengers were just bussed down to Bristol. Replacement aircraft G-TUIE operated the BRS-MLB flight with just over a 2 hours delay.

[silverelise]

Does anyone know what aircraft is operating todays TOM643 AYT-LGW service? Due in at 5:45pm, but it's delayed leaving Turkey, I just wondered if the aircraft has actually arrived in Turkey yet.

[davidjohnson6]

G-TAWK perhaps ? Seems to be running 2 hours late

[silverelise]

Many thanks

[colinhunn]

G-TAWY positioned to Norwich earlier this week for maintenance with KLMuk Engineering. G-TAWX was there last month. Does anybody have any idea what works are being carried out? I’m guessing possibly c-checks.

[chinapattern]

Just a normal diversion due to weather (crosswinds) at Bristol, and then maybe low fuel hence the 7700 squawk? Aircraft G-TUIC is now currently on route BHX-CUN, so no tech issue with aircraft, and presumably the passengers were just bussed down to Bristol. Replacement aircraft G-TUIE operated the BRS-MLB flight with just over a 2 hours delay.

Do you happen to know why the planned short haul 787 doesn’t seem to operate from BHX on Mondays?

[azz767]

Do you happen to know why the planned short haul 787 doesn’t seem to operate from BHX on Mondays?

I believe it (G-TUIF) is still at LTN getting reconfigured. Only G-TUIH is active and in S/H configuration currently and that has been operating from MAN for the past few weeks.

[Matt995]

Do you happen to know why the planned short haul 787 doesn’t seem to operate from BHX on Mondays?

The short haul B788 currently operates to Orlando Melbourne at 0915 on Monday, with the long haul B789 operating to Arrecife at 11:30 until 11th July, then it changes from the 18th July, when the B789 will operate Melbourne at 11:30, the B788 to Arrecife (07:55) & Bourgas (18:55)