Jet2-6

[FRatSTN]

Summer 22 now on sale from BFS, BHX, EDI, EMA, GLA, NCL and STN.

Looks as though every base sees a reduction compared to what Summer 21 currently looks like. EMA and GLA would seem particularly hard hit, possibly even warrents a reduced based fleet?

I'd guess some of the city routes are yet to go on sale, but nontheless those frequency cuts are still quite widespread across all routes/bases.

Maybe Jet2 just playing it cautiously for now? Obviously very early days and a lot could change by then.

[ROC10]

S22 is still a long way away, even more so in the current climate.

Just a thought but perhaps it’s a result of 733/757 fleets being smaller/gone by S22, and they may also not have factored in any leased-in capacity as of yet as they probably want to be more cautious?

As I said, just something that came to mind, but may be completely wrong. Frankly S21 is still massively in doubt so I think everything needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. Hopefully though, by S22 we can get back to more normality and levels closer to S19.

Ultimately though, this pandemic is not only a health one, but also an economic one, and the true impact of the latter is still very much yet to be felt.

[Jonty]

I can’t imagine it’s all gone on sale yet, it’s more than 18 months away.

Plus everyone is expecting 2022 to be better than 2021, so I wouldn’t expect reductions from 21 to 22.

Unless Jet2 know something we don’t!

[Bearpit]

I'm told initial plan only, with "more to come" in the future. Makes sense as we see how leisure travel recovers.

[ATNotts]

You have to ask, is anyone seriously going to commit to summer 2022 when nobody knows what their employment situation is likely to be, even more so than normal, not does anyone really know where we will be in relation to covid-19, not the mention the fallout from Brexit. I know that for some people a holiday is an extremely important part of their lives, but seriously, committing to spend nearly 2 years down the line you have got to be either an eternal optimist, of just plain foolhardy.

From the company perspective I would imagine they are very much relying on plenty of optimists or fools to boost cashflow since there will have been precious little of the positive variety from the summer just gone.

[P330]

Iknow that for some people a holiday is an extremely important part of their lives, but seriously, committing to spend nearly 2 years down the line you have got to be either an eternal optimist, of just plain foolhardy.



Sorry, but that is nonsense and far too general. As much as a good proportion will not know their financial status, many will, be that those in good jobs or those that are retired. Even for those who are nervous of the future, putting a deposit on an holiday which doesn’t have to be paid for for a long time (and can be cancelled before final payment) would be a welcome boost to their outlook and would be low risk.

I would say foolhardy should be reserved for those who will fully spend knowing they will not be able to afford it....

[commit aviation]

I would imagine that as Tui have started to put their summer 22 programme on sale, Jet2 would have felt they had little option but to follow suit.

[jethro15]

As far as I know it is in QLA - it arrived into MAN at start of March in all white registered G-TCDD from memory and never got moved to the Jet2 register - it was then positioned to SNN before lockdown 1 and is now registered as OE-IOV and went to QLA a week back.

Now due QLA - DGX tomorrow for onward storage.

[CWL757]

From what I understand it's going to DGX for MX with Caerdav prior to joining LS. What happens to it post storage is a different matter.

[jethro15]

OE-IOJ is due to join it from SNN tomorrow.

Answers on a postcard to...…..

[Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP]

Both are joining the fleet. J2 have retained the crews for the 3 A321's. They have also purchased outright an Airbus simulator which will be living in LGW until space becomes available in Bradford.

[sdbelgium]

Meanwhile, OE-IDQ (set to become G-HLYG) is reported to be going to the new Vietravel Airlines?

[Mr Mac]

What do Jet 2 use down to Madeira, as Mrs Mac maybe on it soon for a break on Sat ? Not sure if I will be able to make it yet, so I may fly from Europe later

[LBAflyer22]

On a Standard Winter 738 with a 75 from MAN on I think Monday. I suspect only the -800 will be going down to FNC for the foreseeable.

[yeo valley]

Could they not use 2x738 rather than 1x738 and 1 757. More chance of running 2 flights to FNC on 738. It will depend if enough pax for 2 aircraft i suppose.

[irishlad06]

i think the poster means a B738 from all other bases and flights apart from a Monday when the B757 flies from MAN on a normal winter however this year it is all B738 at the minute due to the B733/752’s all being stored.

[Mr Mac]

All
Thanks for all the input 737 800 it is having checked seating. Looks like I will be flying from Europe - she,s not pleased about that, will have to carry her own bag :ouch:

[Mr Mac]

Actually made Man flight which was full apart from 3 seats. Crew did well and top marks to Funchal airport on testing. We had both been tested before travelling so no que but thy are doing very well. But boy it is quiet here !! Return flight showing 60 passengers next weekend currently.

[southside bobby]

Jet2/Holidays state have refunded £1bn+ to customers since the beginning of the pandemic.

Has however won them plaudits from the CAA & money websites.

[Playamar2]

Three B737s left MAN for TFS this afternoon within 30 minutes. RYR & TOM took just under 4 hrs whereas EXS took 4.5 hours. The RYR & TOM went the direct route over Devon and Northwest Spain whilst the EXS went over Ireland and into oceanic airspace south to Madeira. Is avoiding French & Spanish ATC fees really worth the saving compared to an extra 30mins fuel. Jet2 seem to use this route more than most especially from Northern airports within the UK

[SWBKCB]

Is avoiding French & Spanish ATC fees really worth the saving compared to an extra 30mins fuel.

I believe it is only done in the hope of getting a mention on Pprune :rolleyes:

[Mr Good Cat]

Playamar2

TOM/TUI have just announced losses of USD 3.8 billion. They've received 3 billion in help from the German taxpayer. I'm sure Jet2 would happily fly more expensive routings if you're happy to donate a chunk of your salary in taxes to help them do it? :D

[Downwind_Left]

Playamar2

The short answer is that yes, there is often a cost saving from a longer routing but avoiding overflying more expensive countries.

Airlines have software that will provide the true cost of a sector on various routings, taking account of fuel and aircraft costs, wind conditions and overflight charges. The flight planner often will have to balance the reduced cost against any impact to on time performance with longer flight times. The savings on the oceanic routing down to the Canaries can be huge.

But this also applies to the whole of Europe, flying to/from places like Greece, Cyprus and Turkey airlines will often fly slightly longer routings over cheaper countries to save overall cost.

This isn’t a new thing, the airline I worked for 15 years ago was doing it using software supplied by Jeppesen.

[LBIA]

Jet2 have just cancelled all flights from its London Stansted base up until February 2021.

Includes routes to Antalya, Funchal, Tenerife, Las Palmas, Arrecife & Fuerteventura.

[mariofly12]

How are airlines so sure that even if there were no covid-related problems, flights into 2021 from/to UK would go smoothly without a Brexit deal in sight, literally days before the end of the year? Or would there be another extension on talks EU-UK talks?

[SWBKCB]

Although "nothing is agreed until everything is agreed", there are a huge number of measures in non-controversial areas that have been signed off that can be put into place at short notice.

[AirportPlanner1]

LBIA

If we’re honest with ourselves that suspension will extend to all bases within days and will most likely last into March or April

[Mr Good Cat]

mariofly12

The EU is more than just Paris and Berlin. The UK tourist supply contributes massively to the economies of the Southern EU states. If Merkel and Macron pulled that trick they’d further fragment the Union at a time when the COVID crisis is stoking nationalist sentiments.

So it wouldn’t be good for either party. I think if a no-deal was really what either side wanted or were prepared for, it would have happened last week.

[AirportPlanner1]

The problem with the southern resort argument is we’ve heard it all before with German car manufacturers and Italian Prosecco and so far both are leaving it rather late to pipe up. So much so the German car manufacturers aren’t even back at work until post Jan 1st.

[irishlad06]

extended already - all departures cancelled until 6th Jan at minute

[BHX5DME]

JET2 SHOWS SUMMER 2021 CONFIDENCE WITH 135 MORE FLIGHTS TO GREECE Jet2 has added 135 extra flights to Greece next summer in response to “continued demand”.

The additions will be from Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds Bradford and Stansted airports. Extra services will operate to Corfu, Kefalonia, Crete (Heraklion), Kos, Santorini, Rhodes and Zante.

The biggest increase is from Birmingham, where there are 60 extra weekly services to Corfu, Kefalonia, Heraklion, Kos and Rhodes.

From Manchester there are another 50 weekly services to Corfu, Kefalonia, Santorini, Zante and Kos.

Leeds Bradford will boast 18 additional services to Kefalonia and Kos, while Stansted will see six additional services added to Zante in response to demand.

The capacity hike comes after Jet2 recently revealed Bristol as its 10th UK base.

“The launch of a new UK base for summer 21, followed by this Greek expansion, demonstrates the company’s confidence and underlines its long-term strategy to become the UK’s leading leisure travel business,” Jet2 said.

Steve Heapy, Jet2.com and Jet2holidays chief executive, added: “Customers are telling us that flights and holidays to Greece are very much in demand for summer 21.

“As ever, we have responded quickly to that demand by adding more seats and holidays on sale to seven fantastic Greek destinations, and we know that they will be extremely popular

[MaxReheat]

'Gutsiest move I ever saw'

[LBIA]

Jet2 have just announced its suspended its scheduled flights programme & cancelled all Jet2holidays bookings up until March 25th, 2021.

https://travelweekly.co.uk/articles/397915/jet2com-and-jet2holidays-extend-suspension-to-march-25

[Vokes55]

Daft.

I think if I had a holiday booked in March, I’d be taking that refund and giving it straight to a competitor. Did they not learn from the October half term Canaries debacle?

[HH6702]

I am sure they know what is best for the company.
1, you can’t travel unless essential and when will that end ?
current figures are worse than March/April last year to Jet2 are looking forward and comparing and have decided that it is unlikely to get the go ahead before end of March and that’s what the government were hinting at yesterday.

2, all the flights and holidays will mostly be running at a loss so better to ground everything instead

3 I bet nobody is booking any flights or holidays to depart before March now until the ban is lifted.

I expect the other operators to follow

[davidjohnson6]

As HH6702 says - what would you do, if as chief commercial officer in an airline, you expected flights to go out with a 30% load factor and pax with tickets having paid bargain basement fares, AND you had a perfect excuse to cancel a swathe of loss-making scheduled flights without the CAA getting upset ? Would you really let the flight carry on or would you instead try to save the company's fast dwindling cash reserves in the hope of a better chance of the airline's long term survival ?

[AirportPlanner1]

Vokes, you could take your refund to whoever you like but I can tell you now none of us are going anywhere in March, and probably not April either for that matter.

[H44]

Interesting, given that I read on another thread that all their crews are going back to 100% salaries in April - I wonder if they might be reconsidering that offer.

[Vokes55]

Knew I’d get a few nibbles from the Jet2 fan club.

So when we get to March 1st and very few people are dying because of

1. 8-10 weeks of lockdown depending on which part of the country you’re in
2. Those that are in the categories that have accounted for 90% of deaths have all been vaccinated 2-3 weeks previous

Is going abroad really going to be banned? And even if it is, and what I’ve said above happens, a growing number will be bending the rules to suit their own needs, and Jet2 will be losing these customers to other airlines, just like when they cancelled all Spanish holidays and the Canaries opened up for October half term. Compliance is only achieved if the public believe the rules are necessary. People are still boarding flights to Cancun and the Maldives, even now.

Im not sure other airlines will be following suit anytime soon. Cancelling all flights 10 weeks in advance is daft. End of story.

[davidjohnson6]

I've just looked at Ryanair's schedules between London / Manchester to the Canary islands.
There are a few flights in the next few days - likely to ensure people can get back home and avoid EU261 penalties - prices look to be priced very cheaply - a four hour flight from Stansted to Lanzarote in 2 days time is being sold for £4 more than APD
After the coming weekend, there are a very small number of flights at half-term in mid-February. I should stress *very small number*.
Otherwise, Ryanair are not returning to the UK - Canary Islands market until the end of March, 10 weeks away

It looks as if Ryanair has very little confidence in what in normal years should be a high demand leisure route during the winter. Ryanair have cancelled almost all flights between the UK and Canary Islands for 10 weeks. I don't believe that Jet2 can magically make a route profitable when rivals see largely red ink

[HH6702]

AirportPlanner1

I can see everything cancelled till May 1st.
pubs and hotels don’t expect to open till then either

[ATNotts]

Some weeks ago now, when there was a discussion was ongoing about flights to ski destinations I recall posting that you would have to be daft to book flights this winter and being roundly lambasted for it. Not wishing to blow my own trumpet, but it doesn't sound so daft now does it?

I, like HH6702, I wouldn't be booking anything before the start of the main summer season in May; it may well be that things get going before then, and if they do, and the covid situation is clearly on a sustained trajectory of improvement then booking at short notice may the best we can hope for.

What really worries me is how businesses such as Jet2, without large government loans, such as TUI has received from the German government, are going to survive, and if they do in what kind of shape and size. After all by Easter it will have been a full 12 months without anything approaching a normal revenue stream, and furloughs notwithstanding, still some pretty big overheads to finance.

[Mr Good Cat]

Jet2 have a £300m drawdown facility that they haven't yet had to access. TUI have indeed been fortunate to receive German government grants and loans to the tune of several billion dollars. They've also just raised over half a billion through a share offer.

I'm sure Jet2 will look to raise further funds as and when they need to, but the fact they're not at that stage yet highlights the differences in the business models of the two companies. Business such as Jet2 also focus on a more assured income - the bog-standard summer holiday in the Med. They're fortunate to not have expensive assets tied up in market segments that will be slower to recover.

For both companies, the demand is there. It's just a case of riding out the lack of forward bookings until the consumer has confidence to put some money down.

[LBAflyer22]

Add into that they sold of Dart Logistics at nearly £100m last year, and raised capital through more shares raising £172 million ... I'm pretty confident. They could probably raise the same amount if not more by again releasing more shares.

[ATNotts]

And who, pray, is going to buy new shares in an airline / tour operator that cannot, with any certainty tell them when they are going to be back in business. I've heard of "speculate to accumulate" and I am not a risk taker with my hard earned money. But there is another adage, "don't invest money you can't afford to lose".

I'm not for a moment fingering Jet2 as a travel business in particular peril, all businesses in this sector must be on quite shaky ground - unless government's have shelled out loans a la Germany and TUI.

[Mr Good Cat]

IAG and easyJet have just agreed some big loans, and TUI have just raised half a billion through a share issue haven’t they?

I think Jet2 will probably have to do the same eventually, but the fact they haven’t yet might point to them being more attractive to the banks and share purchasers?

I guess we’ll see anyway. If we get to the point where deaths haven’t come down by summer, then that means the vaccine hasn’t worked. And if the vaccine hasn’t worked then the entire country will reopen for business as there’s nothing else we can do, apart from wearing masks, keeping a distance, and washing hands regularly.

[ATNotts]

That is a scenario that doesn't bear thinking about.

[2Planks]

Vokes55

Just because British citizens have been vaccinated does not mean they will be able to travel. There is little evidence yet to suggest a vaccinated person cannot catch covid and transmit it to other people. The only evidence is that the majority will not suffer badly. Given the low levels of vaccinations around Europe, No Nation will want to risk their population with further seeding of the new more contagious variant. So cancelling 10 weeks out seems like a good plan. If corridors do open up flights will be on sale sharpish.

[Jonty]

I think Jet2 lose less money over the winter by parking up the fleet. Especially when you can then put pretty much the entire airline staff on furlough.

[LBAflyer22]

2Planks

Isreal - the world is watching them. And so far they've reported infections are on the downward trend as are hospitalisations and fatalities. Numbers to be released soon. So yes there is evidence that vaccination is working. Just our very arrogant Health Sectary will refuse to look at it.

As for the Variant .. all viruses mutate. And the Scientists have already said it maybe we have a yearly jab for the high risk groups and top the healthy population up bi or tri annually. As for the "contagious" of said variant - I don't believe a word of that. It's the MSM and Government propaganda at work.

I do agree however that cancelling out till end of March is very good business. Also allows them to take advantage of the furlough scheme for a good chunk of staff out until then. Or maybe bit before then.

[Vokes55]

You are aware that any airline can put their entire staff on furlough and unfurlough them at 24 hours notice for as little as one day, right? Do you think every airline that hasn’t cancelled flights 10 weeks in advance doesn’t have staff on furlough?

You would say it’s good business. Unfortunately it’s not good business, except for the other companies that’ll be hoovering up the business of those passengers who have leave booked in March and want a holiday, and are willing to take the chance that their holiday may be cancelled and they may have to get another refund closer to the time.

I have a flight booked for March 2nd, and have every intention of taking it. If the airline cancelled it now, 7 weeks in advance, I’d be rebooking with another airline almost instantly. Just because a few people on here believe “nobody is booking anything”, does mean it’s true.

Cancelling all flights and holidays 10 weeks in advance is daft, and I’ve yet to see an argument that says otherwise.

[OzzyOzBorn]

If the airline cancelled it now, 7 weeks in advance, I’d be rebooking with another airline almost instantly. Just because a few people on here believe “nobody is booking anything”, does mean it’s true.

I'm as keen to travel and to fly again as anybody I know. But I have to disagree with you. Having spent far too much time over the past ten months hanging on phonelines listening to muzak, being passed from pillar to post, filling in claim forms and sending 'evidence of purchase', keeping track of future travel vouchers and sending dozens of emails - just why would I be tempted to put myself through anything like that again? When C-19 kicked in, I had 49 flights booked (plus accommodation, rail tickets, coach tickets). Other trips were planned too - fortunately, I didn't go ahead with booking those.

NONE of those 49 booked flights worked out for me. Two of the flights (MAN-KIR-MAN) went ahead as planned, but quarantine rules in Ireland meant that I was barred from travelling. Ryanair kept the money. The other 47 flights were unusable, either because they were cancelled outright or because some sectors within a multi-stop itinerary were cancelled. I did make four flights during the Summer - two rebooked return trips at short notice using voucher redemptions. EasyJet MAN-BFS-MAN went ahead at the third rebooking attempt. Beyond airlines, I also lost three booked cruises. One is in the hands of ABTA because the cruiseline went into liquidation - endless paperwork for that one, and told to expect six months wait time for reimbursement. One cancelled voyage to be refunded (still waiting). One rebooked to a year later but now unlikely to go ahead anyway. Two of my airline claims are still ongoing, including the lamentable Air Europa who have yet to refund a flight from April 2020 and claim they 'can't do anything' on the rare occasions they deign to answer the phone at all. There will be no new business put their way by me. Some other carriers genuinely did their best to be helpful - I'll remember that. My future business will favour them.

Now, I don't write any of that for the sake of complaining. Frustrating though they are, these are the very definition of 'first world problems'. I see people who have lost someone close to them because of this virus, or who have been ill themselves. I see others made redundant, furloughed, indebted, depressed, despairing. Especially within this industry. And I remind myself constantly how fortunate I am to enjoy reasonable health and financial security. I'm fine and busy in my own space until circumstances change. BUT ... why on Earth would I even begin to contemplate booking another bunch of flights to countries which very likely won't allow me in at all, and if they do I'll need a C-19 test certificate arranged at great hassle and expense very close to departure? Then possibly a repeat performance before flying back to the UK. And then I could be required to quarantine as well upon return. All in the hope of visiting a destination where everything is closed and one is required to be masked-up 24/7 (if allowed out and about at all)? No - the only new bookings I'll be making are those redeploying vouchers which would otherwise expire worthless. And I'll use those for flights as far into the future as are available for booking.

My real plan for S2021 is to wait for certainty. When a destination is reliably opened up for travel without off-the-scale red tape, then I will book to fly there at very short notice. Attempting to beat Grant Shapps' 'travel corridor hokey-kokey' again. Yes, that risks a higher price-point, but the downside of the alternatives makes the supplement worthwhile for me. I place a high value on my time, and all those hours wasted chasing refunds won't come back. If those short-notice flights are crazy-expensive, then I'll just pass on them anyway. It looks like my first few trips will have to be within the UK - maybe just within England only at this rate - and that is fine if so. My New Year's resolution is to avoid setting myself up for more avoidable soul-destroying admin paper chases.

I would suggest that there are many more folks out there thinking as I do. The only reasons I can think of for booking discretionary leisure flights in this climate is to redeem expiring travel vouchers or to secure very specific high-demand travel dates due to individual circumstances. Travel companies and airlines such as Jet2 are quite right to hunker down and conserve cash through this period of uncertainty. To answer the point made in the original quote, I'm not saying that nobody is booking anything. But I am saying that very few are - and why would they? Which means that most new bookings for our airlines are voucher redeployments which bring in no new cash. And in most cases, the airlines are having to allow date-changes for free to secure even that business.

Anyone who believes that the airlines should just carry on flying fresh air regardless is in fantasyland. They must conserve cash above all. It is survival mode out there. I think H1/2021 is a total write-off already. The populations of Continental Europe (amongst others) won't be sufficiently vaccinated to allow 'normality' to resume for many months yet. And I write that with a very heavy heart.

[True Blue]

Maybe if you had someone in the middle of this in the health service, as I have and you see the impact on them handling all of this, you would worry less about not being able to book a few weeks in advance. There are some things in life more important and some that can wait.

[OzzyOzBorn]

True Blue - I have more than one family member in the middle of this in the NHS or equivalent (two working in A&E - though one of those in Australia), and I agree with your sentiment concerning the tough conditions they face. Hence my comment about flight booking concerns being the very definition of first world problems. But this is an Airlines and Airports forum. This is the place where it is legitimate to discuss forward business prospects for airlines and airports, and to contemplate when normal booking patterns may return. It is in no way disrespectful to the NHS to discuss these matters. Good folks employed by Jet2 and carriers like them are also very dedicated to their work, as are their airport colleagues. We do not have to disapprove of discussing issues affecting the travel and aviation sectors in an airline forum in order to demonstrate our support for NHS staff.

[Mr Good Cat]

I think the question of not letting UK citizens in for Summer '21 will differ depending on the destination. For example, I think the Canaries will open up as soon as they can with a thorough testing program as mitigation. I don't think the Spanish government nor Brussels will be throwing sufficient support money at autonomous regions or EU countries who heavily depend on tourism. And for those places, there's no point having a lockdown if your citizens end up on the streets rioting against poverty, and also damaging your reputation as a tourist hub.

The key bit is all countries getting those at risk of death or serious illness vaccinated, repeated at regular intervals as necessary. Once the death rate and hospitalisation rate drops, the number of cases / contagiousness becomes irrelevant.

[TheFiddler]

...any thoughts Vokes55?

https://metro.co.uk/2021/01/15/easyjet-cancels-all-holidays-until-march-as-lockdown-travel-rules-continue-13909569/

[Flying Hi]

That's EASYJET not Jet2.:}
Try posting there?

[Bam Thwok]

Think you’ve missed the point of The Fiddler’s post........ go back to post #34.

[Jonty]

Given today’s news I think everyone will be cancelling until the end of March, if not well into Easter.

[Buster the Bear]

You wait for proof of double vaccination to be a requirement of entry into another country and the current lockdown rules are loosened.

[andrewn]

Jonty;

Well, we're booked for Rhodes on 30th April, see how that one goes.... :)

[FRatSTN]

Interesting question maybe, but could there be any potential for Jet2 somewhere down the line picking up some of Norwegian's ex-Dreamliners and starting a long-haul programme?

I think these would be a good fit for Jet2 to open up Florida, Mexico, Jamaica, Dom Rep. etc. from primarily MAN, STN and BHX perhaps. They've got good geographical presence through the UK now on short-haul holidays and the leisure market is looking far more encouraging than most for any recovery.

Or is the long-haul prospect, even for the package holiday market, too much of a risk in the short-medium term with others retrenching and too much of a cost burden for Jet2 to even consider at the moment? Thoughts?

[davidjohnson6]

Perhaps Jet2 should be aiming to see their short haul fleet at least 80 % busy before committing money to expansion ?

[RVF750]

The management at Jet2 are quite conservative (small c) and careful. They're also pretty canny and ready if an opportunity arises. Of the UK's airlines, which one isn't bleating on about support or borrowing huge sums to stay afloat yet? If this craziness goes on into the late Summer, they might be the only airline still left....

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Why would Jet2 want to buy/lease a very expensive aircraft?
When there are a lot of other types a lot cheaper to acquire, plus some existing crews could cross fly after completing a type course.

[CabinCrewe]

What are these other cheaper types currently available you talk of?

[MARK 101]

Think most people in the industry agree that Short Haul will recover a lot quicker. Cant see any company really putting much in to Long Haul before 2022 at the earliest. This is going to be a protracted recovery and all companies priority will be to get the cash in by doing what they do best rather than new risks and ventures

[Mr @ Spotty M]

CabinCrewe
It would be the A330 and there are plenty available, including some young airframes.

[clipstone1]

trouble is Norwegian own quite a few of their 788 and 789, thus they have to find a leasing company to buy them (presumably at an on paper loss) who will then lease them on to another airline. Some are still undergoing engine rectification as well I believe. I would have thought they'll be picked up by an airline looking to downsize 777 or similar since they are nice fairly new aircraft, but wouldn't see it as a short term risk for Jet2.

Having said that, pre-pandemic, they chose to take the ex Thomas Cook A321 aircraft primarily because they were available at the right price, since it was a significant move away from their otherwise B737-800 fleet....

[toledoashley]

I would have thought the 787’s would be more attractive to an airline like Condor (who at some point need to refleet), or an airline which needs smaller long haul aircraft.

[Buster the Bear]

Neos now have an ex Norwegian -900.

[Gurnard]

..... and another making two.

[Wycombe]

You have to think that "some point" needs to be quite soon, as I don't think any of Condor's 763's are younger than about 22, and a few quite a bit older.

You would also think that if Jet2 were to be venturing into long-haul, they would do that first by leveraging their existing relationship with AirTanker for 330's (saying that without any knowledge of how that stacks-up financially)

[rog747]

You have to think that "some point" needs to be quite soon, as I don't think any of Condor's 763's are younger than about 22, and a few quite a bit older.
and - Neos now have an ex Norwegian 787-9 (x 2)

Neos's own 787's are very similar to Norwegians' and have the same Premium Economy seat.

Condor have not made any decisions on their 767 replacement - Having emerged from the Thomas Cook collapse and failed LOT takeover, then Covid-19, it seems the strong German brand of Condor continues on after 65 years.
787's have been mooted but deemed too expensive by Condor (although that may alter with second hand 787's possibly coming along)
They felt the A350 was too big so Airbus have been offering them the latest and much cheaper A330NEO 800 series which fulfils all the 767 missions.
Condor have 3 classes in their 767's Business Comfort Class, Premium and Economy.

I would imagine Jet2 are very pleased they did not purchase the 737 MAX types - Once post Covid recovery for holidays is fully underway (summer 2022 we hope) then demand will out sell availability, and no doubt they will look at larger types again for their peak routes like Palma, Rhodes and the Canaries.
Again they were prudent to get rid of the A330 leases and not made any advance purchases.

[simoncorbett]

I don’t think there is any rush at the moment things are not going to be good til next year At earliest & even then not sure about long haul- just my opinion

[DomyDom]

You wait for proof of double vaccination to be a requirement of entry into another country and the current lockdown rules are loosened.
I agree. That will be the game changer to really get things going again. Spain and Greece are pushing heavily for this. I think the odds are that they will have this in place by the start of the summer season.

[Buster the Bear]

Needs to be an internationally recoognised format. The concern for me and civil aviation, is the importation of new mutations if and when restrictions are lifted. As you can still carry, will any country have the balls to permit partial opening of borders?

[116d]

FRatSTN

Personally, I think Jet2 will be better off using A330's to dip their toe into the long-haul market if they so desired. It's a known type to them and if they could seek to utilise the same arrangements as they have done in the past with Air Tanker, there's less risk involved whilst they work out if the attempt to diversify is successful or if it's best left served to others. The 787's may have low operating costs being a new generation aircraft, but I expect the acquisition and leasing costs for them to be expensive.

[irishlad06]

Jet2 announce Athens for 2022 from MAN BHX and STN as well as MAN - TLS.

[ib26uk]

I personally never saw Athens coming !!

Good luck to Jet2 on that route

[DomyDom]

Great news! 😃 TLS has been unserved from MAN for a while I believe, at least since the demise of Flybe.

[rog747]

Jet2 Hols cancels all holidays & flights until at least 14 April :(


No doubt TUI and EasyJet Hols will now follow suit sadly...

#NoEasterHols

Mr Hancock indicated today tough border measures may be in place until Autumn.....

[andrewn]

That booking of mine for the 30th April looking less and less likely then....

[DomyDom]

It's not surprising given that it will be end of April before over 50's are all vaccinated. However that group constitutes 99% of CV19 deaths. Once that group is done the risk of hospitals being overwhelmed drops markedly and comes more into line with what we would typically see with flu. There is the risk of new variants and I suspect we will see some border controls retained for some countries throughout the summer but given that the situation in most continental countries is also improving I can see a summer season albeit at some reduced capacity starting in May. The vaccination programme will also continue so the picture should continue to improve further after then.

[Jamesair1]

Thank you....so good to hear a bit of optimism amongst the gloom and doom.

[D9009]

it will be end of April before over 50's are all vaccinated.

Depends on what you mean by "vaccinated" - SAGA Holidays require a second shot of the vaccine before they will allow you to travel, it will be July - August before the over 50s get their second dose.
I'm not sure family holidays will be possible either if a vaccination is required for the under 18s to cross borders, they are right at the back of the queue.
Some joined up thinking will be needed or this summer will go the same way as summer 20.

[DomyDom]

Fair point D9009 and I don't think we will be completely back to normal this year. What I do think we will see from start of May is a gradual reopening with the reinstatement of travel bridges with countries where infection rates are acceptably low. I would expect that to be combined with evidence of the receipt of 2 doses of vaccine at borders. Don't forget quite a few of the more mature folk amongst us and NHS staff, carers etc. will have had their second jab by then. If vaccines keep going into arms at the current rate I can see a good case to open up our borders where infection rates are low by late spring.

[ford cortina]

I see Jet2PLC have raised £422 Million overnight, might help them in the long term.
https://www.insidermedia.com/news/yorkshire/jet2-raises-more-than-420m-through-placing

Having said all that, todays Business section of The Times, the future depends on a restart sooner than later.

The company has issued this: https://www.jet2plc.com/Investor_Relations/News/Proposed_Placing_of_Ordinary_Shares_-_Replacement_11_February_2021/

Lets just hope the restart happens soon.

[Travel Agent]

Jet2holidays have advised flights and holidays from Bristol cancelled up to and including 30th June 2021

[ford cortina]

is that all flights, or just Holidays?

not good Damn

[BHX5DME]

The whole lot

[D9009]

Surely this is just a delay to the opening of the BRS operation.

[ford cortina]

Damn, I know a couple of guys, accepted Base Transfers there.
Seeing this pandemic is costing £75mill a month, I could see stormy clouds ahead for J2.
best of luck all

[Mr Good Cat]

£75 million a month in lost revenue, or operating losses? Where is this data coming from?

[ford cortina]

I was sure it was The Times, or Financial Times. However I stand corrected, its worse:
According to The Times, 12th Feb: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jet2-in-460m-fundraiser-to-help-it-navigate-the-storm-cg0zd9qsh
If you cannot access it, here is the quote in full:

"The company has cash of £479 million at present and potentially has access to Bank of England pandemic relief loans of £300 million.
It said that if it was not allowed to start flying properly again until the end of May its cash will have dwindled to about £190 million. If travel restrictions continue longer than expected it indicated that it will have run out of cash by the end of the summer."

Times are tough for all concerned

Just found this: https://www.jet2plc.com/Investor_Relations/News/Proposed_Placing_of_Ordinary_Shares_-_Replacement_11_February_2021/

Again to quote:
"The Group's current cash position as at 31 January 2021 comprised "Own Cash" of £479m and Total Cash (inclusive of advance customer deposits) of £772m (unaudited).

Jet2 continues to take every step necessary to preserve cash and enhance liquidity to deal with this most challenging of trading environments and the Group has the ability to continue to take additional liquidity actions if required.

Management has prudently prepared three indicative "no fly" scenarios of increasing durations being: restarting flying on 22 May 2021; restarting flying on 16 July 2021; and restarting flying on 1 September 2021. All three scenarios assume a ramp up of flying operations at reduced seat capacity with average load factors that are initially below historic levels. Further, the scenarios assume a cautious outlook for Winter 2021/22 and a full, unhindered Summer 2022 flying programme for the Group's financial year ending 31 March 2023.

Excluding the net proceeds of the proposed Fundraise, any CCFF proceeds, additional debt and/or mitigating actions, the Group's indicative cash flow scenarios show the following:

Restart Flying Scenarios*

Jet2 Own Cash** scenario period low



Calendar Year 2021 Calendar Year 2022

22 May 2021 c.£185-195m in May 2021 c.£360-370m in April 2022

16 July 2021 c.£125-135m in June 2021 c.£155-165m in April 2022

1 September 2021 c.£(15)-(5)m in August 2021 c.£(70)-(60)m in April 2022

Notes:

* Management indicative cash flow scenarios, unaudited and subject to change, for the month ends during the period ending 30 June 2022

**Calculated as total Group gross cash less advance customer deposits

[Oceanic815]

I think you will find that those forecasts are excluding the share fundraiser and excluding the CCFF which they haven’t utilised yet. Admittedly still not great, but they can draw on an additional £422mil from the share issue and £300mil from the CCFF, so not quite running out of cash by the end of the Summer! Added to that they are talking about their own cash in those forecasts, not including customer deposits, which they keep separate.

[ford cortina]

Oceanic815, you are correct, however, I think you will find I never claimed the Share Fundraising and the CCFF were included.
All I have only shown you Jet2PLC's own words, they are not mine.

As for ringfencing customers money, well thats another reason why we have used Jet2 on many occasions for a holiday. I am very happy with their customer service, it is exemplary.

But as I said all I have done is show their own numbers and words.
and they are:
Between 12th Feb and 22nd May they will burn through c.£284 Million
to 16th July, c.£344 Million
and 1st September, c,£484 Million

Amyway you cut it, its going to be tough, I can only imagine some downsizing may be needed

[Oceanic815]

Ford cortina, it was more in response to the Times article. They do like to grab a headline. The info you posted from Jet2 itself was what I had seen. I think a lot will depend on what Boris says next week. As for downsizing, it’s possible, but personally I don’t think so. When they are given the green light for holidays, I suspect the pent up demand will mean everyone is required!

[ford cortina]

Well lets hope so, it is in all our intrests that Jet2 thrive.
Here's hoping the delay at Bristol works out well.

[ford cortina]

Mr Good Cat

Just found it, here you go:
https://www.ft.com/content/4b906413-13a1-431b-8124-2fef9b56ebf3

[irishlad06]

ford cortina

i think if the airlines aren’t flying by September then all of them will be in the same boat in terms of negative cash (own cash). Remember back to that EasyJet meeting that leaked - “if they don’t have a good summer then they might not make it to winter” - most airlines will be in the same scenario.

[ford cortina]

Irishlad06, Yes I remember the Easyjet audio well. I am sure many will be in a bad way come the end of summer if there is no opening up.
I am not bashing jet2 at all.
All I have posted is their own words. They are all there for all to see. If you are not happy with them, there is not much I can do.

[ford cortina]

Okay tom776257, I have not once said anything different. I dont quite understand why there is so much defensiveness going on here for Jet2, I am more than sure Philp Meeson is perfectly able to do just that.

All I have stated is their own words, I personally do not have any worries that they will not survive, I am sure they will. Although seeing the eliegbility for the CCFF has changed and the company are currently in a review process with Her Majesty's Treasury, it has been quite prudent to make a share issue.

I must say however, I dont share your optimism for the Government Bailing out any weak airlines, their track record would say otherwise, after all someone will take the slack up quite quicky.

[AirportPlanner1]

There are positive signs there might be an agreement for restriction-free travel to Greece possibly as early as May. Jet2 would be well placed to take advantage of that. The UK along with Israel could even have virtually an exclusivity deal in earlier months at least.

[irishlad06]

Apparently LS are looking at going back to Chambery Airport (CMF) for winter 2021 season as well as a possible aircraft based in LGW for peak winter running charter flights to Lapland and Ski destinations. All still to be confirmed.

[DomyDom]

I agree Airport Planner1. I think there is a lot to be optimistic about now we have a credible roadmap for getting out of this dire situation. To be honest with arrival of the vaccines, despite a few jitters over variants that can be managed, it is only a matter of time. I think Greece and likely Cyprus will be on the cards this summer and if Spain pulls it's finger out we will get that as well. Being a regular visitor to Spain with interests there I will be surprised if they don't get on top of things by the summer as they won't want to lose another tourist season.

[2Planks]

I see Chambery has reappeared on the schedule for this winter. After the weather/lack of aids/big hill in the wrong place debacles of a couple of years ago it came as a surprise. Has something changed in the procedures or are the local authorities paying jet2 to fly there?

[BHX5DME]

Chambery was a new route announced last week !

[commit aviation]

New to BHX maybe but previously operated from many bases. As 2Planks stated with some operational challenges. I have no inside knowledge, but imagine if that's where the skiers want to go and you risk losing their business to a competitor if you don't fly there, then you take the risk with the operational pain to ensure the commercial gain.

[2Planks]

As a skier with a keen interest in the area, Chambery has only one advantage, it's half an hour closer to the Tarentaise resorts than GNB and an hour or so less than GVA. Attractive to the tour ops who provide buses for their punters but the lack of public transport is a pain for the DIYers. Other than that it is an overcrowded shed with limited facilities on Saturdays. And most skiers know that when it goes wrong it goes wrong big time, normally a couple of times a season.

I spend a lot of time (As far as an ex FJ Nav can) explaining the issues of a 40 day a year airport and the unique operational challenges of the terrain and that a better ILS would not help.

Generally, I find most people skiers would rather avoid it. Putting all the investment into GNB, with a bigger terminal and apron, would get my vote. But with CMF and GNB being in different departements that's unlikely to happen. Hence, my suspicion that the incentives at CMF must be very good....

[simoncorbett]

A strange choice for jet 2 in my opinion as they don’t appear to do ski holidays as such, with Chambery with its limited transport for diy

[Jamesair1]

Jet 2 do provide ski holidays and in fact launched their ski programme earlier this week....check out the website for details

[LBAflyer22]

Jet2 do not offer any Ski holidays. They offer flights to Ski destinations but not holidays.

If you go on such sites as Neilson you'll see that you can book a Ski holiday with them and they utilise a Jet2.com flight.

[southside bobby]

Notwithstanding the merits or not STN has traditionally seen Chambery weekend flying each season by AWC with the B757 & latterly BAW with the 190 too.

[AP1995]

Maybe the tour operators have got big seat allocations? offer jet2 cant refuse/turn away..

[Flying Wild]

The commercial risk is taken away somewhat from Jet2 as the tour operators will be responsible for getting bums on seats, whilst Jet2 is paid to fly regardless of how full/empty the aircraft is.

[AP1995]

clearly the tour operators have not chartered full aircrafts as seats are available to book direct at Jet2.com, like Fly Wild states - commercial risk is taken away/reduced

[Jamesair1]

The TIMETABLE under the 'Info' heading seems to have disappeared from the Jet2 website.

[skyhawk1]

yeah I’ve noticed that. Wonder if it’s because they keep changing so much at the moment.

[toledoashley]

Its quite normal now for tour operators to take allocations on flights, so one might take 30 seats, another 40 etc, and for Jet2 to sell what’s left.

[Buster the Bear]

TUI programme at Luton is mostly on easyJet.

[pamann]

It’s not an allocation though. They just purchase the seats on selected routes as an option for the customer to book. They still have a one aircraft base for the majority of their summer flying programme.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Sicily and Sardinia announced as new destinations available for S22. Flights operating to Olbia and Catania.

[beefix]

Have jet2 started to cancel June flights to Italy?

[DUB19]

According to the Manchester thread, you understand they are?

[beefix]

Yes. June holiday has just been cancelled.

[CWL757]

Few questions about the fleet (I know this is all subject to change with covid)-
1.Are the A330s due to return next year or are the leases permanently cancelled?
2. What are the plans for the 757s in MJV? Do they have a provisional return date?
3. What's the plan for the remaining 733s? They surprisingly haven't been retired yet. Are they staying for the foreseeable future or are they due to leave soon?

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

1 - I don’t know of any plans to return to A330 ops any time soon. I don’t know about the status of any agreement, but I wouldn’t expect to see any A330’s operating in 2021 or 2022.

2 - The 757’s are planned to be used this summer, but that is obviously dependent on what Boris says on Monday, and on demand. They will come back in time to start operating I assume. As far as we know the 757’s will continue in the fleet till 2024, and maybe even 2025 now that they haven’t really flown much this last 15-18 months.

3 - The 733’s are also planned to be used this summer with the same proviso as above.

[figgi_gsm]

Anyone know where the fuel stop (guessing there is one) on the Skiathos-Edinburgh leg?

[rotorwills]

Fuel stop, don't think so.!

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Anyone know where the fuel stop (guessing there is one) on the Skiathos-Edinburgh leg?
figgi_gsm is online now Report Post (https://www.pprune.org/report.php?p=11021757) - probably Thessaloniki.

Fuel stop, don't think so.! - why not?

[VickersVicount]

Why not? there often has been for similar. Its a short runway and a longish route against the wind.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

I know that Vickers, hence me saying the stop would likely be in Thessaloniki.

[BAladdy]

Fuel stop, don't think so.!
Think again because there is going to be one. Just did a dummy booking for JSI to EDI and this info appeared

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1640x799/c00290e6_8740_4123_adfb_003de46f9039_cdd4f58c7b96d644ed0d15a 63a0f57ecd4a2c17a.jpeg

[figgi_gsm]

thanks BAladdy. I didn’t go that far! :ugh:

[Jonty]

I would imagine there will be a fuel stop programmed for most of the JSI rotations.

[uptoncol]

Unless it’s the 757 which does not normally need a fuel stop ,as it’s got a much better short runway performance

[Ivan aromer]

And it has 8 main wheels to brake rather than than the 4 on the 73!

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Unless it’s the 757 which it isn’t, it’s an 800 only route for us at the mo.

[A330ETOPS]

We used to do these on the 321 at Tommy Cook. We’d make it back in 1 go if we were lucky!

[Jaf4fa]

A 757 could do it in one hop but would need about 10kts headwind for T/O. Calm/35C and you can only get about 13 tonnes of fuel on board, which
would be a bit light.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I see that Jet2 have seen sense and pushed back their restart to the 24th June.

[Vokes55]

Not sure customers with flights or holidays booked in June to places like Malta, Madeira or the Algarve would agree they’ve “seen sense”.

More of a knee jerk reaction to send a message of disapproval to the government than anything.

[GrahamK]

considering for a family of 4 you could end up paying £400+ for tests one way, makes sense. Nobody will fly (unless your super rich)

[ATNotts]

Vokes55

I think you're spot on with that analysis. Making leisure travel elitist was probably the worst thing the government could have done. just think of those hard working "key workers" who are now going to be denied their holidays as they couldn't afford the potential £400 for covid tests for a family of 4? It would have been better to have banned leisure travel until the end of June to see how infection rates in key holiday destination pan out over the next month or so.

Government only thinking of its core supporters again I'm afraid.

[Jamesair1]

I doubt that even entered their thinking......unless of course it refers to our Bentley owning champagne Socialists down the road where I live.
Such decisions are based on scientific covid advice.

[Spanish eyes]

Some here seem to forget that the world is in the middle of a pandemic with half the U.K population not vaccinated including not a single child who are quite capable of picking up the virus and bringing it back to the U.K. The government is being sensible, Jet 2 can see the reality of the situation while Easyjet doesn’t care and wants people to use the lateral test despite the risks to the U.K.

So how many Jet 2 passengers who failed a lateral test while abroad would admit it and then self isolate in a foreign land at great expense if they thought they could hide any symptoms? I would say not a single one.

[Vokes55]

GrahamK

But not everyone who travels is a family of 4, and many could absorb the costs of a PCR tests. There’s also plenty of time for the policy to change, with pressure from the industry, to lateral flow tests or for vaccinated travellers to be exempt from testing from “green” destinations.

Spanish eyes

I’m not sure anybody’s forgot, it’s just that not everyone agrees with you, or the government, and a growing majority believe that the country should return to normality now that anyone who actually dies from this virus has been protected. You’ll also notice that the first two letters of PPrune, stands for “professional pilots”. Whilst I’m aware the majority of contributors are spotters, on a website for “professional pilots”, you’d be forgiven for assuming that a lot of people here would like travel to resume to protect their careers and livelihoods.

[ATNotts]

Jamesair1

I think you'll find that the consensus of scientific advice would have been to extend the travel ban currently in force for a while longer. What the airlines, tour operators and punters have been landed with instead is a complete fudge and fog. Personally my view hasn't changed. No point in booking trips anywhere outside the UK for the time being since, from my perspective I'd rather not book than be disappointed when a much anticipated break gets cancelled.

[Jamesair1]

I would say that the greatest Covid risk comes from (possibly infected) inward pax travelling to the UK , hence the test requirement for arrivals. I tend to agree with Jet2's position on delaying flight re-starts, hopefully, by June covid infection rates might have fallen. Turkey in particular, currently has very high rates of infection.

[davidjohnson6]

We seem to be drifting away from the topic of Jet2 towards a discussion of UK policy on foreign travel... perhaps best discussed in a thread more geared towards the topic so that it can gain a wide audience instead of being hidden inside a Jet2 thread ?

[Dorking]

Jet Blast??

[RedDragonFlyer]

Spanish eyes

I think, if anything, Jet2 are just being realisitc with the likely slow opening of borders. The case rate in many parts of Europe is sky-high compared to here. The government here are obviously going very slowly in comparison to the big bang opening we saw last summer.

It depends on your definition of child, but the Pfizer vaccine is licensed for those aged 16 and above. They've completed the trial for kids aged 12-15 and submitted that for approval to the FDA in the US. I imagine they'll do the same here in the near future.

[rotorwills]

If anything Jet2 are being quite optimistic at this time, considering the present line the UK government is taking.
I can quite understand this view being publicly aired as they are encumbered to sone extent to their shareholders. I took a look at the RyanAir latest financial forecasts, and wondered how on earth Jet2 are getting along with cash if those guys are having such a bad time and forecasting a 2022 year at best a break even, looks like a real horror comic for airlines.

[Gordomac]

davidjohnson & Dorking ; Agreed. I was thinking exactly the same and in my Sunday lurk about I see the Corvid debate creeping a lot of threads. Unfortunately, I and others, are no longer allowed to even access the JB forum for stepping too hard on too many gentle toes. Before being banned altogether, may I sneak in a quickie though ?

Only last night, overheard that the vaccination programme has still not resulted in certification. Taking uncertified medication (still under test, therefore ) leads to nullification of medical & travel insurance.

Be assured that this is a meak & gentle request for comment from those more worthy, like ATN, from a very nervous member.

On thread, of course J2 is making the correct judgement under almost impossible to handle, conflicting decreee.

[Fletch]

rotorwills

With rights issues, etc Jet2 are in a (relatively) strong financial position. They have access to plenty of cash over the coming period so no concern there. I'd imagine they are expecting an extremely profitable summer 2022 if the vaccine programme in Europe continues as it's going.

[Mr Good Cat]

rotorwills

Ryanair are looking at a different theatre though. They will recover well on leisure routes in the corridors that are open, such as UK to certain Mediterranean regions, canaries and Turkey etc. Where they will suffer is the other fine margin intra-Europe routes, where people may choose not to fly rather than be unable to fly.

There is still huge demand out of the UK for warm weather holidays, and there always will be. As long as those destinations need the business, and the UK government allows a corridor, there is money to be made. If there isn’t enough supply because of restrictions, then prices go up and the few lucky enough to have the extra cash will pay for the privilege.

I agree that 2021 is a write off, and although 2022 won’t see all countries 100% vaccinated, history suggests pandemics behave as follows - big first wave, second even deadlier wave, then settle into less severe normal seasonal illness. And that is without vaccination considered. I think 2022 won’t be anything like this year for Europe.

[ATNotts]

Gordomac

First off, I believe Jet2 are to be commended in taking the lead; you might have expected that perhaps TUI would have been in the vanguard of delaying once again the summer start. I was just scanning through the new case 7 day incidence from Johns Hopkins University and frankly you just can't see the UK turning any major holiday destinations to "green" in May, except possibly Portugal who's incidence has fallen dramatically, and Malta. Spain, Greece, Cyprus, Bulgaria and Turkey are not going to be anywhere near by mid May, so the hope must be thing may have improved from both new case incidence and vaccination rate perspectives. Jet2 have made a good call, even though it won't be universally popular.

As regards your other point regarding vaccine certification, I must admit I was under the impression that AZ, Moderna and Pfizer had all been fully certified (by UK). If they haven't and travel insurance in thus voided then that's a rather large can of worms that could be opened.

[H44]

Time will tell if Jet2 have made the correct call, and indeed I wouldn't be surprised to see others follow suit. What I don't get is why they needed to make that call at the start of April other than (as a previous poster mentioned) to send a message to the government. Say Portugal and Malta are on the green list, are you really not going to fly to those countries for over a month of the summer season just because Spain, Greece etc are not open - surely you maximise all opportunities to make money where you can? This is why I think other airlines are maybe holding fire for the time being, things can change a lot in a month. Also, with regards to TUI - they may end up cancelling all flights as Jet2 have done, but with Mexico, Dominican Republic, Barbados and to a lesser extent the US doing well, there's the opportunity to start a limited long haul programme alongside a few short haul destinations such as Morocco and Portugal.

[Cuillin Hills]

I believe, as always, Jet2 are looking after their customers.

it may be disappointing news but any customer who is due to pay the balance for a holiday from early June until June 23 knows that they will not now need to make the payment and the deposit will be returned. Happy customers.

Any holiday, that is already paid for departing after 17 May and up until 23 June, will be refunded - other competitor holiday company customers will still be expected to pay any outstanding balance up to 23 June whilst they await a decision from that Company.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Reason why Jet2 have sensibly delayed the start of holidays and flying.
Heapy said that to resume on May 17, as previously planned (https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/tui-insists-overseas-holidays-will-be-possible-this-summer): “We’d have to recruit loads of seasonal staff in the UK, loads of seasonal staff in every one of the 50-odd destinations we fly to, and we might not be flying there for two or three months.
“We’d have the cost base of a fully operational airline and potentially not flying. It’s just not sustainable.”

[Vokes55]

Jet2 could cancel everything until 2024 and put all of their staff on unpaid leave until then and people on this forum would still say they’re “making a good call” or “doing the right thing”. The fact remains that Jet2 are the only major U.K. airline that are entirely exposed to both the European market but also the decisions of the U.K. government. You don’t have to look far into Europe to see that easyJet, Ryanair and TUI have restarted a sizeable chunk of their operations from Germany, Switzerland, Austria and Scandinavia, which is at least bringing some revenue in. Virgin and BA (and TUI) will survive a poor summer on cargo revenue, as well as the long haul routes to the Caribbean and potentially the USA - two destinations that aren’t as seasonal as the majority of European beach destinations.

Even Jet2’s magic money tree will be looking pretty bare if they don’t get any revenue in this summer, and cancelling half the season before it’s even begun will hardly inspire hope, especially as a good chunk of their operation could be on the “green list” by mid June.

[Canadian]

Vokes,
”Daft.
I think if I had a holiday booked in March, I’d be taking that refund and giving it straight to a competitor.”
Your comment about delaying the restart until April. Seems like your predictions aren’t spot on either.

[ATNotts]

Vokes55

You make a very good point regarding Jet2's exposure to the UK/ Europe holiday industry and comparing it to the spread risk that the likes of TUI, Ryanair and Easyjet enjoy. With the benefit of 20 / 20 hindsight (and don't we all wish we had that!) some expansion into the EU markets pre-Brexit might have been a good move, though probably at the time viewed as somewhat risky - better the devil you know and all that.

[Bam Thwok]

Canadian

Agree with you there Canadian
Not forgetting Volkes predictions back in October last year too......

”However not even the most brainwashed Jet2 fanboy or employee could deny that cancelling the largest market for October half term a month in advance was short sighted.”

I believe his business acumen was proved a little missing there too !

[Fletch]

I think one of Jet2's strengths is the relative simplicity of their business model. There is always going to be a market from the UK to Europe for holidays. They know the market well.
At the moment the management team see so many opportunities for profitable growth in the UK there is no need to pour money into expansion abroad or long haul operations. I'm sure when the time comes, and the returns are right, they will move into these markets.

[davidjohnson6]

Do Jet2 have the scale to be having significant adventures in the EU post-Brexit ? Flybe tried Finland and it wasn't a happy experience

[ATNotts]

Their scope for "growth" which we all know is what the stock markets holy grail, is somewhat limited within the UK market, up against the likes of TUI. Jet2 have already based aircraft in Spain, so it wouldn't, for example have been that great a step to begin operating to places like Cologne, Stuttgart, Rotterdam, Billund - I've picked those places out, not because they are necessarily viable, but because they are in countries where the flay on words that is "Jet2" only really works in countries where there is a good working knowledge of the English language and it's nuances. Then of course the easiest market to enter would be Ireland, and having registered aircraft on the Irish (EU) register they could very much do an "Aer Lingus UK".

For now, rebuilding the business as and when covid restrictions allow has got to be their, and every other airlines number one priority, not potentially risky ventures into the unknown on vanity trips.

[Vokes55]

Bam Thwok

Not sure what your point is there, Jet2 missed an important week of revenue in half term by cancelling their Canaries flights prematurely. By the time Jet2 had managed to scramble together a flying program, the half term had finished and the second lockdown had begun. Their competitors were flying full aircraft to the Canaries in their absence. My point entirely, they’ve made this mistake before.

If the government say that travel to Malta, Faro, Madeira, the Canary Islands and some Greek islands are on the “green list” from May 17th, or even early June, the company are going to be once again scrambling to throw a flying program together and claw back some bookings, whilst their competitors have kept all flights/holidays, allowing those with existing bookings to go ahead and those with bookings to destinations that aren’t available the chance to change directly to holidays that are available.

January was a different story - Im not sure anybody expected the government to make it illegal to leave your own country - but what exactly did they achieve by cancelling until the end of March a week before everyone else, as it turned out? And cancelling a few holidays that barely break even in March is different to cancelling potentially 6 weeks of the season that keeps you in business.

People like to bleat on about them “putting the customer first”, but it I was a customer with a booking to somewhere that was likely to be accessible from June, I’d be, once again, taking my money to a competitor. I don’t think any other airlines or tour operators have been criticised by customers for waiting for official advise before cancelling their programs.

[Canadian]

There’s the rub, If you didn’t think it was going to illegal to leave the country how can you be certain that we’ll be able to fly anywhere other than Gibraltar and Israel? The governments travel taskforce doesn’t have a great track record so far. We all know that all airlines are in self preservation mode, I don’t think this one is entirely about giving the customer what they want, it’s about making sure the company is around for long enough to take people on holiday next year (hopefully).

Im sure if travel to enough destinations is allowed you’ll see Jet2 flights/holidays back on sale quick enough, Tui won’t have it all to themselves:ok:

[Vokes55]

Because the government have announced a framework to restart travel, potentially from 17th May. A company doesn’t have to bring its entire workforce off furlough, entire fleet from storage in order to operate a partial program to wherever is permitted. Heaven forbid, Jet2 might actually try to capture part of a market that’s away from their bread and butter in order to bring in some much needed revenue.

You’re correct in saying that airlines are in preservation mode, which is why the majority are keeping cash in the business and bookings valid until it’s abundantly clear they cannot operate. Remember that the majority of working people will have annual leave booked that cannot be moved. It’s far easier to fill aircraft and hotel rooms by transferring existing bookings for “closed” destinations than it is from a standing start with no bookings after cancelling them all. TUI, easyJet and BA were flying full aircraft to the Canaries in October half term whilst Jet2 were scrambling to throw a program together.

[pug]

You mean like charters? Not sure if they’re doing any presently but they’ve always been quite a lucrative aspect of the operation. I’m a bit bemused by your suggestion that they should scramble about for any old business away from their tried and tested model ‘to try get some cash in’.

I do appreciate this is an open discussion forum but comparing the operations of Jet2 to those of easyJet and TUi is like comparing apples with oranges. The people running Jet2 are highly competent and passionate about the business (traits which I m sure exist in other larger operators), which filters down through the staff. They will not have made the call to delay restarting the operation without very good reason, and they really are serious about looking after their customers! I suspect the risk of short notice travel restrictions due to the fluidity of the situation has sparked a cautious approach, it would likely cost more if they’re forced to repatriate travellers at the drop of a hat - for instance, just how simple do you think it is to get sufficient man-power off furlough and back into currency, and all those seasonal staff back up to a sufficient level, to cover all eventuality?

They’ve built their business through being highly cautious and it’s seen them well so far, there’s no reason to question their capability to deal with this and hit the ground running once there is more certainty in the travel market. Spreading themselves too thinly, and desperately entering unknown markets just to get the cash in just doesn’t strike me as something that would fit their business model.

[Canadian]

Maybe they can’t just can’t be arsed to go back to flying? I’m sure they have their reasons. Which bit of the market do you suggest they capture anyway? Seems like they have been capturing some of the Tui market over the last few years.

[Vokes55]

pug

I think you’re living in a dream land. Jet2 won’t have flown a paying customer for almost 6 months. Unless they really do have a magic money tree, they won’t survive without a strong summer or diversifying their operation. Or is every other airline that has done just that wrong? I don’t think Virgin, BA and TUI imagined they’d be flying raw rubber, salmon, avocados, vaccines, troops, electronics and car parts across the world, but it’s making them money whilst their core business has been decimated.

If last year proved anything, it’s that a certain proportion of customers will go on holiday to wherever is possible. If that’s only going to be Malta, Portugal and Israel in June, the demand for these destinations is going to increase dramatically (I believe it already has). If Jet2 want to sit in hibernation whilst the rest of the industry eats their lunch then that’s up to them.

Aside from anything, a gradual restart is far less risky than their apparent Big Bang approach. I don’t expect many of the fan club to appreciate the cost and logistics of getting hundreds of pilots and thousands of cabin crew back to work. Every single pilot will require some sort of simulator training, the majority will now require line training. Simulator capacity restraints will almost certainly mean they have to operate non revenue flights to get pilots legal and current again. Operating a small program to Portugal and Malta or wherever else is possible from mid May or June would’ve allowed sufficient commercial sectors to get the majority of the workforce current and ready for a substantial restart, whenever that may be.

It’s all very well shouting “I’m sure they know what they’re doing”, but the same could be said for every other airline, the majority of which are doing the complete opposite.

[Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP]

I suspect it is easier to plan cashflow by cancelling the entire programme and utilising the furlough scheme as much as possible. Fairly fixed costs and a known contribution to staff wages. Trying to second guess which destinations will be "green" is impossible at this stage. The goal posts keep moving.

[pug]

Vokes55

Youre wrong, I know they know what they’re doing. It’s ok for a faceless spotter on PPrune to suggest they could do better, but fact is they have weighed up the options and decided that it’s not right to re-start their operations until there is more certainty in the market. They are slowly starting to get flight crew back into currency now, they may well still be brokering charters which have always been lucrative in the past. However, their business model is such that they don’t outsource their overseas teams and thus they have clearly decided that to recruit seasonal staff and pay wages to people when there is a high chance they will be doing nothing is not viable - I’m sure there are many other variables which have led them to make this difficult decision too.

You may see TUI chomping at the bit to get flying, but you mustn’t forget that they own overseas hotels and they need to have them filled too. This is something Jet2 doesn’t do, which arguably provides them with much more flexibility contrary to what you are asserting.

Whilst I’m sure your concern is appreciated, perhaps leave it to the experts? After all, this is undoubtedly the most challenging period facing civil aviation since 1945! It goes without saying that they are suffering financially, as are many others in the industry, but they’re not scratching round behind the sofa for loose change just yet.

Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP

Hit the nail on the head! To press on with even a limited program which could prove more costly than keeping the aircraft on the ground is a risk they are clearly unwilling to take.

[southside bobby]

Vokes`s arguments I suggest are the same long held views as previously noted regarding the virus/pandemic restrictions & not having another outlet here now is using the Jet2 page to channel those views.

[Gurnard]

Vokes55

Not true. They had some recent charters from LGW.

[Mr A Tis]

Crikey, how Jet2 have not offered Vokes 55 a job to rescue them I don't know.
They're a pretty astute bunch at J2 and they would have done their calculations. Making good use of furlough. Not outsourcing so many ground handling services has worked for them & they all can be paid under furlough. The stop start situation others have been in is expensive.
We don't even know where the "green corridors" will be yet- but we do know they will come with hefty PCR tests for all destinations to get back to the UK.
Many of the elderly J2 fleet are owned & not under expensive leases like easyJet, their capitol value is low & they can be stored at low cost.
J2 have been very busy with numerous 737s doing crew training rather than sims- thus keeping the aircraft in active status.
They know what works for them & they will never be the same as TUI or easyJet- completely different set up.
Less leases, no outsourcing.
Try not to worry about J2 Voke55 I'm sure they'll manage without your incisive business acumen.
Relax & book your easyJet flight if that's what you want.

[D9009]

Jet2 are taking a conservative approach, they haven’t borrowed huge sums of money and are rightly anticipating the big draw on finance that restarting the operation will entail.
The bailouts and rights issues that some airlines and travel companies have signed up for will, if I can quote BoJo, risk making Jet2’s competitors “hostages to fortune”

[Jamesair1]

Another expensive problem for operators was the Govt. announcing on a Thursday that travel to such and such a country would be banned in the next 48 hours....leaving holiday operators such as Jet 2 with customers stranded in the various resorts affected....meaning expensive empty legs to get them home.

[hec7or]

Vokes55

I think TUI are more likely to survive a poor summer 2021 having announced a €350m convertible bonds offering on 9th April than by propping up the operation using passenger aircraft to fly freight.

[Vokes55]

Wow. So many nibbles from so many "experts" with their red and silver tinted glasses. I guess time will tell.

I would advise that some people read up on how the furlough scheme works though (hint: you can be un-furloughed and re-furloughed as and when required, and training can be carried out whilst furloughed).

[pug]

Are you admitting to trolling?

Yes they can be furloughed and unfurloughed, which as it happens is what they are doing with a lot of their staff. They’re ramping up training in anticipation for a return to normal operations. This can be done at a pace to suit the business needs, whereas it’s not prudent to recruit hundreds of seasonal workers only to have them doing nothing.

Nobody is professing to be an expert, except Vokes55 who seems to have appointed their self as their unofficial strategist. Rather, we are trying to make the point that the experts have called it and we must trust that they know what they are doing with the information they have available. If the worst was to happen and the company didn’t survive then it may be reasonable to pick the bones, but it hasn’t and the company are still on a solid footing with strong leadership.

[Vokes55]

pug

And I'm the troll? It doesn't take an expert to know that an airline needs revenue to stay in business. Going by your (and others) rhetoric, they may as well cancel the entire Summer and come back next year. It's not like the uncertainty is going to disappear on June 24th.

After all, I'm sure a year without having to pay for seasonal staff is what will keep them in business.... :ugh:

[pug]

To post something in order to illicit a ‘nibble’ is the definition of trolling.

We agree, the airline would be better off flying. In fact it’s pretty obvious that this whole pandemic thing has caused issues throughout the industry. These statements do not need to be validated by experts. The experts are the ones who have to mitigate as they see fit, and as has been pointed out to you, just because TUI are earning some revenue in cargo does not mean that it is a viable proposition for Jet2 to do the same.

They are making plans with the limited information available. If that means keeping their aircraft on the ground then that is their decision and one for which they are paid a lot to make. It’s not a ‘fanboyism’ to state the obvious!

I wish all companies and their employees well and hope that they are all able to start operations and generate sufficient revenue ASAP. I see no benefit in picking apart decisions made by any operator during these unprecedented times, I’m sure most people’s livelihoods on this forum rely on the industry bouncing back.

Perhaps a critical analysis of the leadership in Parliament is more appropriate at this time.

[rotorwills]

Gentlemen, of course we all know we are uncertain times. In fact we are in times of which no one alive, or dead for that matter, has has experienced such a time, and so we have many forecasts of what the future holds for us and airlines, of which we are all indebted. So let's give some slack to opinions being expressed.

I am pretty well relaxed that many will make it through these very trying times. As well as many here do not wish to paint a black future for us and our industry. It's difficult enough to keep a level head and seeing many negative posts doesn't help. No real industry person wishes another airline have difficulties but it's a fact that many are suffering. Let's not pick on Jet2 as an example for crowing from competitor airlines and just hope that we get some warmth and comfort from governments, mind you I don't see much of it.

One cannot level criticism at Jet2 as they move their goalposts, as they will continue to adjust to fluctuations in governments advice and travel restrictions. They are doing what any responsibile company would do. That's not to say that they have it right, but who has? There are limits to forecasts and as I stated we have never been in such a fluid moving marketplace.

I seriously hope that we san come out of these times with jobs for all aviators as they are my kind of people and feel privileged to be a airline pilot.

Good luck to all.

[Jonty]

hec7or

There was a rather interesting article about that £350m in The Times in the week. Didn’t make pleasant reading for the TUI board.

[Bam Thwok]

The numbers look quite concerning for the TUI group.....
The group has received over €5bn in financial aid so far.
It’s net debt is currently standing over €7bn, putting the firm on a high net debt to earnings ratio of six times. Generally, three times is considered sustainable !
A sizeable amount of this debt will need to be repaid by July ‘22.
As of March, the group has liquidity of around €1.6bn with a monthly cash burn between €250m-€300m.

We all need to get summer 2021 up and running ASAP !

[AirportPlanner1]

On travel and holidays people aren’t rational. Watch the ITV Heathrow programme - people having a go at airport staff because other Governments banned travel from the UK. When the inevitable happens and May/June holidays are cancelled it’ll be the airlines/operators that get the blame for ‘ruining summers’. Anyone that thinks there will be a substantial number of destinations available to visit in the near future, especially in Europe, is living in cloud cuckoo land.

So my view is Jet2 are doing the right, sensible and most sustainable thing

[Dannyboy39]

From experience J2 are indeed the most astute people I've come across in the industry. As a whole, it has proven time and time again that airlines are incredibly resilient, even more so during this crisis. Whether it be an ash crowd, severe weather, terrorism, natural disasters and a pandemic. Unfortunately that never seems to come at the betterment of the employee who continue to take haircut after haircut.

Its going to be a long process to return to some sort of financial normality - I actually think the difficulties for many carriers will come down the track when financial support ends, (oil prices are already back up to pre-pandemic levels) and passengers actually need to be flown. I like others have flights booked that were made 20 months ago. Obviously not the full amount of money is released by credit card companies until the flight takes place but what is available has probably already been spent many times over to retain an even keel.

As for the general public, airlines will be blamed because it fits the narrative of the right wing media... the government have to come out smelling of roses regardless.

[Jonty]

This is where I think Jet2 are very clever though. No passengers money is counted as Jet2s cash until that passenger has flown on holiday. Essentially all their money is ring fenced until the holiday has taken place. That means Jet 2 can refund passengers promptly, and deposits amounts are not counted in cash flow figures.

[Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP]

TUI will not be able to trade their way out of debt. TCX failed with £1.5 billion. There will either be a dilution of shares, restructure or a sale of some assets to reduce the debt pile. I’m not wearing red and silver tinted spectacles either. TUI is a huge and diverse company but it is now heavily geared as a result of the pandemic.

[Flying Hi]

Just spotted G-GDFT en route Murcia - Leeds due apox 14.00.
May have missed this - is that the first of the 300s to come back from storage?

[LBIA]

It's actually the last of 7+ Boeing 737-300's to return to Leeds from storage in Spain.

[Flying Hi]

Thanks LBIA must try and stay awake!:*
Fingers crossed for Alicante in July and Bodrum in Sept.

[L1649]

LBIA

It was actually the 6th of the 7 300s left. FN is still in Almeria.

[Flying Hi]

getting a sneaky, early free tan, I guess. :ok:

[CWL757]

Anyone know when the remaining 757s will be returning from their "holiday" to Murcia? I know a few came back to MAN recently.

[Modular Halil]

Anyone know if jet2 will expand their fleet of 321's after the recovery, seems quite odd if they only keep 2?

[The Flying Stool]

They're now getting 3 A321s. There's two in storage/maintenance at St Athan awaiting things to improve before they enter service. With the gradual retirement of the 757s by 2024, expect more A321s to join the fleet.

[Modular Halil]

music to my ears! Cheers mate

[pabely]

The Flying Stool

Not ones from the Bone Yard!

[OzzyOzBorn]

Intriguing! Please tell us more ...

[The Flying Stool]

The two A321s awaiting delivery are ex Thomas Cook machines dating from around 2014. Currently in storage at St Athan. Other ex Thomas Cook aircraft of similar age/hours are still available if they decide to add more.

[OzzyOzBorn]

Ah, thankyou. I actually misunderstood, thinking that "The Flying Stool" was a reference to a particular aircraft. I now see that it is a username on the thread! I must refresh my observational skills ...

[highwideandugly]

Anyone aware when Jet2 are commencing operations again?

[BHX5DME]

Last week of June for Jet2 - which makes complete sense to me

[chaps1954]

They may well be doing a few footie charters to Portugal at end of May

[ericlday]

F1 charters ex Nice - Luton LS6169 23rd May
- Birmingham LS6174 24th May

[irishlad06]

chaps1954

have 4 flights to GDN for the man United match and 6 x charters from MAN to Porto confirmed at the minute.

[pabely]

The GDN flights from STN because there are more MUFC supports in the London area?:} Sorry, couldn't resist a footie team dig!

[sdbelgium]

Not to GDN, but 5 flights will operate LGW-OPO on the 29th as well.

[pabely]

And TUI say they cannot get extra slots in OPO so are putting on 787s due to demand...

[rotorwills]

What is going on with Jet2. Competition is ramping up taking advantage of robust demand for flights.

Surely one would expect some sort of response from them. Not word from any of my colleagues there.

Really weird.

[excrab]

Not really that weird, their CEO was on the internet a few weeks ago being interviewed for some travel magazine programme.

He said that at the beginning of May the government hadn’t given enough information about where would be open to fly to, which was a problem as they not only had to get aircraft and crews flying again but seasonal staff recruited in all the resorts (they are self handling at most airports and have a lot more resort staff than others because they are primarily a holiday company, not just an airline). Waiting until June gives them a better idea of where will be open, and they can avoid recruiting lots of staff abroad, and paying them at resorts which may not open up yet.

Sounded very sensible.

[Modular Halil]

Anyone know whats jet2's veiw on modular students ? Do they accept them? Also does anyone remember the NTR first officer requirements i understand that no one knows anything for the foreseeable future however its good to get the knowledge.

[Mr Good Cat]

Of course Jet2 accept modular students. Just apply for the apprenticeship program when things eventually start moving again (obviously a long way off at this stage).

You’ll spend a year working on a very basic salary in different company departments, learning how the business works - Ops, cabin crew, flight planning etc. After approx 12 months you’ll start your rating and become a second officer. The first year can be tough for some (those who want everything handed to them on a plate) but for those who put the work in it’s a great deal. Most importantly of all Jet2 are looking for your qualities as a pilot not the size of mummy and daddy’s slush fund.

[Vokes55]

excrab

The problem is that the government aren’t going to make it very clear where they can fly in June either, until about a week before if they’re lucky. So it’s the same problem as everyone else, just six weeks later. And of course with this Indian scariant now sending vast swathes back behind the sofa, green list shoo-ins for the end of June are probably less likely now.

I was very surprised to see Jet2 resist setting up a Portugal program after the announcement. Even starting over half term, they’d have had 3 weeks to prepare. Capacity U.K.-FAO over half term is going to be above the summer peak in August 2019, and demand is meeting supply.

[davidjohnson6]

Are Jet2 capable of temporarily switching their business model from "package holiday company that operates its own flights" to "LCC airline" without losing more money than aircraft remaining on the ground ?

TUI have the advantage of sending substantial numbers of people on holiday from multiple countries, not just the UK - this diversification of country risk dependency allows them to do more things than Jet2

[AirportPlanner1]

However give it a week or less and all may be off the cards again, at which point a missed opportunity becomes an inspired decision

[rotorwills]

OK I see that Jet2 maybe be wholly a package holiday outfit, but surely they can sort out some flights. They really need to get going and get planes and people in the air. Crew need to be working and while there is demand they should strike while the iron is hot. Anyone can plainly see that with the UK level of inoculations that air travel to Europe is well on its way back. A little bit of testing isnt going to prevent travel for many.


Airport Planner1, with a handle like that I would have expected better comment other than, it could all be off in a week. What sort of idea is that. The world can end today, but you must plan and execute for it to be here.

I recognise that the mobilisation and structure of a aviation company would be difficult but that's what is needed to stay afloat in a competitive world. You don't get RyanAir, EasyJet hanging about when people want to fly.

I have and hope to use Jet2 so many times and has great prices and service from them want them back in the air and giving us what we need to get to places we want to go.


Surely the people at the top if they don't get their finger out should be out. Common Jet2 let's be having you.

[Brian Pern]

It seems to me that Jet2 are being very risk adverse, maybe too much, but only time will tell.

Interestingly, Mrs P's Sister has expressed interest in traveling to Portugal in the near future, she has accss to a villa in Quateria, I just had a look for her, she lives in the North, so I checked MAN-FAO. At the moment Ryanair, Easyjet have at least one flight every day, of course seats are getting in short supply so prices reflect this, but in late June the prices are much better, for example right now, Ryanair have 2 flights on 24th June, Easyjet and Jet2 have one, what surprised me was the difference in price, for a seat only. Jet2 currently £375, Ryanair £60 and £130, Easyjet £179, even with hold luggage bags, seats and priority Jet2 are at least £250 more than Ryanair, even for return flights. I know Jet2 are a holiday company these days but even TUI are cheaper.

So I checked the cheapest Package holidays 7 nights, Jet2 just pip TUI by around £40, although it is not the same hotel, while Easyjet are £20 more.
It does not mean anything, but looking at flights in the next few weeks, it appears to me Jet2 could are missing a beat here, they could be running flights only to help people travel, it would not take that much to return to service, no need for reps and of course it would help put some much needed money in the coffers.

[rotorwills]

Brian, I have never used Jet2 as a holiday package as I always book particular hotels direct and have done for many years. I always looked upon J2 as a flight provider except on one occasion when it was cheaper booking a self catering hotel package which saved me over £250 as against flights only, was an anomaly.

The point I just wanted to make was they should just put on flights, soonest possible. The amount advantages for them must make it well worth their while, for what effort they would need to get ramped up.

It would be easy peasy in the grand scheme of aviation. Comon J2, it's easy peasy, it's cheesy peas. Get going so I can get sone flights booked with you this summer. Please, I need a break. You can see how bad things are, I'm even posting on this forum.

Seriously will the guys at the cutting edge get moving, we want planes in the air. We want healthy competition and jobs for all that are in our business.

[Modular Halil]

Mr Good Cat

'slush fund' brings a particular airline into mind, thanks for the response, chances of getting onto the apprenticeship is next to non against people wile first time passes and 90%+ averages, though it does give you the motivation to work towards.

Any idea if they'll eventually bring the non type rated roles back after all this has blown over ?

[excrab]

“Once this has all blown over” in 3 years, 5 years, whenever. Once the supply of type rated and experienced applicants runs out, and when they can no longer get enough applicants with first time passes to meet the requirements of the apprentice scheme, and when and if training capacity allows or requires, then maybe they will recruit NTR f/o… but probably not for a while. And even then they will probably look at applicants with experience on smaller jets or turboprops, probably no shortage of those for a while, either.

[Dorking]

It may well be that the senior management of J2, who will have had discussions at very high levels of Government, will have thought long and hard about the pros and cons. It could well be that they have so little trust in No10 and its opportunistic/Charlatan advisors that they have decided to take the cautious approach and so would I. You only have to look at the shambolic, yes you can/no you can`t, approach of yesterday that is making todays headlines. Would you honestly trust them??..

[HH6702]

Ryanair flew 13 passengers between the U.K. and faro on one of there aircraft

there’s the reason for Jet2 not flying yet the demand isn’t there to make money

[Mr Good Cat]

Modular Halil

I think there will be a period of a couple of years where we have an over-supply of 737 and 321 rated crews with experience. Possibly experienced Captains prepared to do two years in the right seat also just to have a job.

It’s not all doom and gloom though. Just keep plugging away, show you’re interested and try to get your foot on the ladder with someone like Loganair or Eastern. Do three years or so with them and keep up the good work on developing yourself into a good pilot and a good manager. One of the things that shines for me during interviews is a FO who talks a flight/scenario like a Captain. ATPL Exam grades are just numbers on paper and don’t really reflect how that individual will operate a plane.

Good luck anyway and hang in there for a few years. The important thing is getting on that first rung of the ladder, whatever the job. Jet2 will always be there recruiting when you’re ready.

[Brian Pern]

HH6702

I had no idea, however for tomorrows 2 flights MAN to FAO, currently 65 seats left and 50 seats left. so 65% and 73% full. A bit better than not bothering

[Mr Good Cat]

HH6702

Yes, I think the current ‘scramble for seats’ is a bit of a smoke screen. Until a sensible and reliable system is in place with a common-sense approach to travel from safe countries, people will hold off. Too much uncertainty over cost for testing and quarantine changes.

Of course things may look better by June, but with this ridiculous government fumbling I’m not feeling positive about it. Maybe that’s just me though - I’m mentally exhausted by all the ups and downs and broken promises.

[Fletch]

If the management team at Jet2 thought there was money to be made operating at the moment flights would be flying I'm sure. Their track record is pretty good.

It's going to be interesting what people think of their resort experience when people get there, deal with any changes in government policy and have to come back through any potential lengthy border at the UK port.

If easyJet, Ryanair and Tui are all operating, it sounds like the market is already well served.

[Modular Halil]

Mr Good Cat

Cheers for the pointers and the advise! always a hit and miss on pprune.

[Vokes55]

HH6702

Negative, Ryanair had 13 people on one flight between Faro and the U.K., on the day after overseas travel was made legal. There wouldn’t have been many people coming home after one day, nor many residents in the Algarve wanting to go to the U.K. (and any that did had plenty of flights to be spread out on).

[Downwind_Left]

Fletch

Plus British Airways doing 4-5 daily FAO from LHR, plus LCY and additional flights from EDI, MAN and NCL at weekends. In addition to LIS and FNC.

The market is indeed very well served, but the question remains why Jet2 are ignoring the obvious demand. All the above companies have bled money for the last 12+ months, none of them is going to add extra flying that is loss making. Every extra flight added must be cash positive to the business, or they wouldn’t add it. And you also have to consider ancillary revenue from packages, hotels, car hire, onboard sales etc.

Jet2 have made an odd decision, their capacity out of the market has just pushed up prices, and pushed revenue and customers towards their competitors. It’s just very unusual for a PLC that’s been starved of income to reject the opportunity to get their business off the ground. Particularly when it’s become apparent that this early restart has been by more affluent people, with industry reports of disproportionately high levels of bookings including 5* hotels.

My parents had a Jet2 holiday in June cancelled, they promptly received a refund. No drama. But they’ve booked a TUI holiday on the same dates, 5* in Portugal, I’m sure that isn’t an uncommon position. Some people are cautious, others are desperate to get away, as long as they feel safe, secure and that their money is protected.

Jet2 have a good reputation, but doing the complete opposite to the rest of the industry looks questionable. Since all the companies named above (BA, easyJet, TUI and Ryanair) have been historically strongly profitable, I think it’s naive to believe Jet2 have a monopoly on good financial and revenue management. There are uncertainties in the market, and they will remain for some time. So either you go out and chase the business opportunities, or you hide under a rock.

[Fletch]

Downwind left- Jet2 have done completely the opposite to the industry over the last decade yet it it has proven successful. It has delivered well for shareholders. Customers have rated their product strongly.

They have access to bookings, yields and customer feedback live and meet government regularly. Relatively speaking they are not desperate for cash. And they may not be able to deliver the customer experience they'd like. I think these are perhaps some of the reasons they are not operating.

I hope your relatives enjoy their holiday.

[irishlad06]

Brian Pern

yes but how many of those were being sold for £9.99 as this was the case right up
until yesterday. There isn’t much money to be made on a small flight only program - especially if the whole operation is your own staff. (Ground staff too) that’s a lot of staff to bring back from furlough. Things are moving in the background - staff are being retrained as we speak. There are lots of charter flights coming up next week from MAN and LGW - it’s about knowing where you can make money and when you can’t. Something Jet2 have always been really good at.

[Downwind_Left]

Fletch

How have Jet2 done the opposite to the industry for the last 10 years? They’ve expanded, going after the commercial opportunities, and done very well. No doubt contributing to the end of weaker players in the market. They currently have no customers travelling with them, because they chose to let them travel with competitors.

Jet2 don’t have a crystal ball, all airlines, tour operators, hotel chains have access to bookings, yields and customer feedback live and meet government regularly. As to not being desperate for cash. I’d call out any business in the leisure, hospitality, tourism or airline sectors that said it wasn’t at the moment. By all means, believe whatever you want. But I don’t believe the Jet2 “Midas touch”, the rest of the UK industry has it wrong argument. Sorry.

[Fletch]

I don't think Jet2 have a Midas touch either. I just think they have a good management team.

Not getting distracted with long haul, not having an estate of retail outlets, investing in the customer experience at airports and resorts are some of the reasons why I think they have gone against the industry in the last past.

[Brian Pern]

I could not agree more, Jet2 have wonderful customer service, (as Palmair and Freddie Laker's Florida operation did), but they will have to dip their toe in the water at some point. They have to accept that there will be flights that wont produce the yield they want, if at all.

We have to remember that the public are not always brand loyal, if you are not operating people will soon forget you.
Customer service is only one of the reasons people will book, some of the public wont have traveled in nearly 2 years, while I have no doubt they will look at Jet2, they wont remember the check in, or flight experience.

It should help that people are being encouraged to book package holidays, but again there needs to be capacity and the price needs to be competitive.
The Jet2 adverts I see on the TV are for Summer 2022 and while I understand it is very important to look to the future, there seems to be no urgency to this year.

I am sure they have a plan, lets just hope it all works out for everyone

[davidjohnson6]

But would it be more profitable (or less loss-making) than keeping aircraft on the ground, and employees on Govt furlough ?

[Mr @ Spotty M]

What happens if in the next couple of weeks, those countries within the EU close there borders to the UK because of the Indian variant, as it did with the Kent variant.
You will all then be saying it was the sensible one, will you not?

[pug]

Agreed, I think there’s been a tendency to compare as like for like when in fact every different organisation has its own relatively unique idiosyncrasies. Would it not put Jet2 in a precarious position if they were to scramble for business in a relatively unknown territory away from their business model, against experienced organisations already squeezed by limited demand and operability?

I think it goes without saying that all operators, along with all of us on here, would like this whole thing to be over and done with and some certainty to resume. Time will tell if Jet2 bosses have made the right call. Just hoping for no further redundancies in this industry!

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Jet2 restart pushed back to July 1st and even further for Turkey (July 22nd), with the exception of UK territory Jersey which will resume on June 24 as planned.

[wowzz]

Looks like Jet2 have done exactly the right thing with regards to their restart strategy, despite doing exactly the opposite to their competition.

[Dorking]

Another example of their shrewd business acumen...Their distrust of politicians has allowed them to make the correct call again, others have not been so lucky. That said my heart goes out to all connected with the Aviation Industry at this time. It must be hell for them and their families.

[rotorwills]

No idea as to an allusion to shrewdness of business sense could be levelled at Jet2 for following quite simple logic of putting the government travel restrictions into place. I love Jet2 and can't wait for them to get back into the air, but please don't compound some thoughts that they are a well funded and brilliantly run company, that's utter nonsense. My biggest fear is that they do not survive due to their business model, which is not their fault in any way, no one could of foreseen such a catastrophic effect on a major holiday airline business.

Lets be sensible here and just accept the fact that various companies are having to deal with ridiculous waving government guidelines for travel and not start adoring the management of one company as though they are the prophets of future aviation.
The government are not the messiah either, looks to me more like they are just naughty boys.

[Dorking]

No adoration from me, but then I understand business and how it works. You have to look at how they`ve worked it right from the inception buying up the old Ansett fleet, steady expansion. They started package tours when others said they were`nt shrewd and would fail. They didn`t. They ring fenced their clients funds when others didnt, so they can do refunds without bringing the company down. They invested in self handling home and overseas. I could go on, but I would say I admire O`Leary more. He`s the consumate hard headed business type. Those people I understand.

[Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP]

rotorwills

I think you will find Jet2 are well funded and very well run. They have been consistently praised by the public for the way they have handled cancellations and refunds from the off. Jet2 do not count customers cash as their own until their holiday or trip is completed. As for their business model, they are not exposed to expensive leases on fancy new jets or cruise liners. Neither do they own or lease empty hotels around the globe. My view is that they will emerge from COVID probably better placed financially than anyone else.

[stonejo]

Jet2 has about a Billion pounds of cash that they have raised in the bank and still have customer cash held seperately as well.