Jet2-6

[SWBKCB]

MAN cites its notional annual capacity as being 40 million pax per annum.

That's spread over the whole year, though. What about at peak times, overnight parking stands etc?

Have there not been recent discussions that T2 development means a reduction in the number of stands in the next few years?

[eye2eye5]

Using Jethros, I estimate around a third of the 737 fleet (including 733) were purchased new.

[AircraftOperations]

That's spread over the whole year, though. What about at peak times, overnight parking stands etc?

Have there not been recent discussions that T2 development means a reduction in the number of stands in the next few years?

And if any excess capacity vs 2019 is due to the likes of TCX or BE failing, then the capacity may not be in the correct terminal to suit Jet2 growth.
Don't forget that capacity can include runway, terminal (check in, security, baggage, airside space), gates and stands.
Off peak growth (after 1st wave) might be available, but seemingly doesn’t immediately fit with the current Jet2 model of based overnight machines and no non-based flying.

[Oceanic815]

The problem that other posters are referring to is stand availability. Yes, the terminals can accommodate more pax. Yes, Jet2 can recruit more ground staff. The bottleneck for further expansion is stands. We have just lost a handful of stands to make way for the new pier on T2, and there won’t be anymore available until after that pier is completed. In my mind, the possible new base at LPL makes perfect sense, as they can still expand the number of passengers from the North West. I’m sure a Gatwick base is on the management wish list, but I can’t see it happening anytime soon because of slot availability. We’ll see!

[chaps1954]

There is more off stand parking than there used to be but don`t seem to have the lack of stands problem as much.
Many of the major world airports use remote parking and bussing

[Mr Mac]

Well I have flown with Jet 2 through Manchester and Leeds last summer. Manchester was on air stairs but noted other flights on bus and remote stands from same carrier.

LBA in August with flight arriving early and some late left to ax long queue on tarmac. Fine if annoying on summer day that it was, but to be frank would not use again purely because I would not want to be stood outside at LBA in any rain and wind both of which are extreme at that height and in winter totally unacceptable.

You can use remote stands in bad weather, they do at Frankfurt, but your stairs have roofs.

Cheers
Mr Mac

[OzzyOzBorn]

That's spread over the whole year, though. What about at peak times, overnight parking stands etc?

Have there not been recent discussions that T2 development means a reduction in the number of stands in the next few years?

DOH ... Never thought of that!!! Only joking ... didn't think I needed to spell out the obvious to the PPRuNe readership. And the stats I quoted are spread over the whole year too. However, the point I did make concerning Jet2's ability to be more flexible due to lower aircraft utilisation than others does address the need for wiggle-room to obtain additional viable slots at busier times. Though, once again, don't forget that MAN's movements remain significantly down on numbers previously seen, even when dual runway ops were offered for far fewer hours per day than they are now.

On the matter of stands, construction work does mean that a number of stands are unavailable at any one time. Though this is nothing new - only the stands affected changes. And during the TP works, new stands have been introduced as well as removed. The ten stands numbered 901-919 are new build, for example. Also, many more stands are measured up for flexible use on a L/R basis - so the quantity of numbered stands is not the same figure as number of available parking spaces. Meanwhile, based fleet strength is down by about nine aircraft from the equivalent in 2018. Not exactly a capacity crunch situation.

In my mind, the possible new base at LPL makes perfect sense, as they can still expand the number of passengers from the North West.

No doubt LPL could put together a viable proposition to host a Jet2 base. But they must do so on their own merits, not on false claims that MAN cannot cope. Of course, I'm not suggesting that they are doing that ... though some on here seem keen to spread that false narrative on their behalf. It is they who I am calling out.

[rog747]

Jet2 have now overtaken TUI as the UK's #1 Package Holiday Operator -
Jet2 know that's where now their core business is, and they do it rather well,
and IMHO,
with my tuppence on the money, then Liverpool LPL is an obvious choice for them to expand.
No Tour Operator competition there.

LGW would be a nonsense for all the reasons given above, and as for Overseas bases, why >?
We left the EU, and would Jet2 frankly go through the hassle of the labour and certification issues >? No.

Bournemouth >?
perhaps once, but now Ryanair are well embedding themselves there, plus TUI are adding a 2nd 737 at BOH for next summer.
IF Doncaster were to ever reopen, then perhaps if they were quick off the mark then Jet2 could make themselves rather at home there.

[ATNotts]

Does Manchester have such a God given right to all the air services from the Northwest that the very suggestion that Liverpool might (with absolutely no evidence) welcome Jet2 to their ramp creates so much ire and angst? Anyone would think we were reading some kind of argument between a Liverpool FC and Manchester United fan!

LPL is an undeserved market for the package holiday industry, has been for decades. TUI, and Thomson before them show little interest as did Intasun and Airtours way back in history. There is an opportunity to be grabbed by one of the current 'big boys' if either believes there is a business case to do so, and whichever takes the opportunity will take business from their competitors. That is how business works.

[pug]

Does Manchester have such a God given right to all the air services from the Northwest that the very suggestion that Liverpool might (with absolutely no evidence) welcome Jet2 to their ramp creates so much ire and angst? Anyone would think we were reading some kind of argument between a Liverpool FC and Manchester United fan!

LPL is an undeserved market for the package holiday industry, has been for decades. TUI, and Thomson before them show little interest as did Intasun and Airtours way back in history. There is an opportunity to be grabbed by one of the current 'big boys' if either believes there is a business case to do so, and whichever takes the opportunity will take business from their competitors. That is how business works.

With respect it’s nothing to do with fanboyism or which airport is best, it’s basing these predictions on how the business operates. Soon as there is a sniff of a rumour (of unknown origin) of a new base people come on saying how it’s going to be their local airport for reasons twisted to fit their narrative.

Truth is very few people will know where jet2 plan to go next, it’s kept quiet for good reason. However if you look at previous then it gives a good indication of how they plan to expand. There may be a curve ball, and it’s not at this moment possible to predict exactly what they’ll do, but when the CEO recently announced that there would be no new bases for a couple of years then there is no reason to doubt this until such a time that an announcement is made to the contrary.

Liverpool, whilst as good as any, does fly in the face of their careful growth strategy to not compete with themselves too much. I accept that there may be pressure on slots at MAN, I also accept that there is probably a market in Liverpool, but is there sufficient stand alone market to not impact themselves at this moment in time? They do intend on doubling in size in the next 7 years, to do so will inevitably include new bases, and I’m certain that that will include Liverpool - at least for consideration. But for the moment there is a slot issue with destination airports that requires flexibility in the schedule to adapt once slots become available.

So no Manchester does not have some god given right to anything, but it’s pure economics and commercial realities which dictates the situation, and that is Manchester is the airport of choice for most airlines when they want to serve the North West, and in many cases the North in general. Liverpool has struggled with the IT/Charter sector traditionally due to the very reason I have outlined, its proximity to Manchester.

[cavokblues]

Jet2 have now overtaken TUI as the UK's #1 Package Holiday Operator -
Jet2 know that's where now their core business is, and they do it rather well,
and IMHO,
with my tuppence on the money, then Liverpool LPL is an obvious choice for them to expand.
No Tour Operator competition there.

I get that side of the argument but on the other hand isn't it a reason NOT to go to Liverpool? If you're already the UK's #1 package holiday company with a well known brand and no direct competitor at LPL (No TUI etc) wouldn't your pax already be happy to go to Manchester?

Manchester must be able to accommodate further growth for them in the next 18-24 months. If they can't they need to be asking serious questions of themselves as an airport. Would Jet2 go to all the hassle with a new LPL base to then grow again at Manchester in the foreseeable?

[Jonty]

While airport slot availability is an issue for future growth, there are far more important issues at play restricting growth.

[ATNotts]

I get that side of the argument but on the other hand isn't it a reason NOT to go to Liverpool? If you're already the UK's #1 package holiday company with a well known brand and no direct competitor at LPL (No TUI etc) wouldn't your pax already be happy to go to?
That kind of misses the point, its not your existing customers you are after, it's the competition's Merseyside passengers you need to further grow your business. But to my mind maximising profit is more important than increasing market share, unless of course you have committed to addition aircraft and / or accommodation and need to use it.

[rog747]

Liverpool LPL has a massive and pretty £££ catchment areas outward and further afield and far removed from MAN's own patch.

[pug]

Liverpool LPL has a massive and pretty £££ catchment areas outward and further afield and far removed from MAN's own patch.

Manchesters ‘own patch’ is the M62 corridor. No doubting Merseyside and North Wales is attractive, but when it forms part of the same market (North West) then you’re in the realms of duplicating costs and saturating revenue streams. Has to be a pretty solid argument for doing so.

Point taken regarding possible limited space for growth at MAN, but they will not curtail it in favour of an airport 28 miles away. Opportunities also for growth at other U.K. departure points, only so many aircraft to utilise too. Surely any outward expansion would be better placed in areas that do not have a Jet2 brand presence.

[SWBKCB]

Liverpool LPL has a massive and pretty £££ catchment areas outward and further afield and far removed from MAN's own patch.

Where are you thinking of?

[cavokblues]

That kind of misses the point, its not your existing customers you are after, it's the competition's Merseyside passengers you need to further grow your business. But to my mind maximising profit is more important than increasing market share, unless of course you have committed to addition aircraft and / or accommodation and need to use it.

But where are they currently going? EasyJet holidays from LPL or TUI at Manchester? If your brand is that powerful and attractive I'm not 100% convinced a duplicate operation at LPL is a must right now.

[SWBKCB]

But where are they currently going? EasyJet holidays from LPL or TUI at Manchester? If your brand is that powerful and attractive I'm not 100% convinced a duplicate operation at LPL is a must right now.

It's only really a consideration if (IF!!) growth at Manchester is being constrained. If it is, LPL is a pretty quick and easy fix. I'd bet for many MAN staff it is as easy if not easier to get to

[Flying Wild]

Problem with a base in PMI and ALI - wouldn't EU residency rules for staff make it a massive headache?

Jet2 already employ staff who reside in the EU, both ground and flight/cabin crew.

Jet2 self handle at ALC, PMI and AGP for example, with airport based staff in the Canaries and some other destinations.

[OzzyOzBorn]

Does Manchester have such a God given right to all the air services from the Northwest that the very suggestion that Liverpool might (with absolutely no evidence) welcome Jet2 to their ramp creates so much ire and angst? Anyone would think we were reading some kind of argument between a Liverpool FC and Manchester United fan!

You appear to have missed the point of the argument I was making:

​​​​​​​ No doubt LPL could put together a viable proposition to host a Jet2 base. But they must do so on their own merits, not on false claims that MAN cannot cope. Of course, I'm not suggesting that they are doing that ... though some on here seem keen to spread that false narrative on their behalf. It is they who I am calling out.

MAN doesn't have a 'God given right' to anything, and I haven't seen anybody arguing that. Liverpool and other airports are welcome to compete robustly for new business just as they always have. And when they succeed, good luck to them. But they must do so ON THEIR OWN MERITS, not based upon the myth that MAN cannot cope with traffic levels still well below those they handled effortlessly five years ago. It is those promoting that myth who I have called out.

And I note that BHX5DME has still to respond to my request to him to specify what "pressure" he has identified to prevent MAN recovering from a depressed level of traffic some 4 million short of numbers seen in 2019. MAN's declared capacity is 40M ppa, and they're currently doing around 25-26M.

[FQTLSteve]

Interesting this MAN and LPL discussion about them being too close to have a base in both.. I checked it out and the distance and time between BHX and EMA are virtually identical. So why wouldn't they? They were in EMA first but still opened BHX. It seems to have been entirely overlooked in these discussions. Maybe I'm missing something?

[OzzyOzBorn]

Some have introduced distance between MAN and LPL to the discussion. That is their prerogative. But the original discussion wasn't about that. It was about the suggestion that alleged "pressure" at Manchester Airport specifically meant that future growth there by Jet2 could not be accommodated, and therefore they needed to establish an overflow base nearby. The poster who originally put forward this argument was asked to present his evidence to justify this assertion, but has so far not done so.

[pug]

Interesting this MAN and LPL discussion about them being too close to have a base in both.. I checked it out and the distance and time between BHX and EMA are virtually identical. So why wouldn't they? They were in EMA first but still opened BHX. It seems to have been entirely overlooked in these discussions. Maybe I'm missing something?

Just look at a map. The same argument is made on the proximity of EDI and GLA, but those cities are not as bounded on one side by the sea and serve two separate main transport corridors. MAN and LPL therefore serve the exact same market which is not the case for EMA and BHX. In fact had easyjet gone into MAN first they most certainly would not be flying from LPL now, it’s growth is a legacy from the original low cost airline philosophy of flying from secondary airports due to cost.

Again this is not to say that Jet2 won’t at some point have a presence at LPL, but it’s just getting why people feel it is the next obvious step when it doesn’t appear to be the case when looking at how Jet2 operate.

[UnderASouthernSky]

Any truth to the rumour that some or all of G-ZAPX is headed to Jet2? Looks like Titan has now retired it.

[rog747]

When you think about it package holiday flights have been in abundance from the MIDS/NORTH Triangle for 40-50 years

BHX EMA/CDD LBA MAN LPL and more recent, once DSA -- plus add in HUY MME and NCL

That's whole lotta regionals - Thomsons and Intasun once served them all, plus BLK too.

[VLCfkight]

Many years ago, Liverpool-based Arrowsmith Holidays, used to operate summer and winter programmes from both Liverpool and Manchester using mostly Laker and Cambrian Airways aircraft.... never a problem filling the aircraft even though the programme was in the main ´mirroed´in both airports.

[sdbelgium]

Any truth to the rumour that some or all of G-ZAPX is headed to Jet2? Looks like Titan has now retired it.
will be used for spares on the 757 fleet

[VickersVicount]

... never a problem filling the aircraft even though the programme was in the main ´mirroed´in both airports.
Perhaps before the gluttony of self book low cost options everywhere… particularly MAN (compared to Liverpool).

[BACsuperVC10]

Before the Low Costs arrrived in the form of FR and Easyjet which Liverpool recognised, a company called Direct Holidays lauched a successful package holiday program from Liverpoolq, ( they were Scottish based ) . This operated well for several years until Airtours bought it and ruined it.

[BACsuperVC10]

Just look at a map. The same argument is made on the proximity of EDI and GLA, but those cities are not as bounded on one side by the sea and serve two separate main transport corridors. MAN and LPL therefore serve the exact same market which is not the case for EMA and BHX. In fact had easyjet gone into MAN first they most certainly would not be flying from LPL now, it’s growth is a legacy from the original low cost airline philosophy of flying from secondary airports due to cost.

Again this is not to say that Jet2 won’t at some point have a presence at LPL, but it’s just getting why people feel it is the next obvious step when it doesn’t appear to be the case when looking at how Jet2 operate.

Its also the fact the the CEO of Liverpool Airport at the time had the foresight to go to Luton to get Easyjet based there. Once that happened Ryanair soon followed their march.

[BACsuperVC10]

I get that side of the argument but on the other hand isn't it a reason NOT to go to Liverpool? If you're already the UK's #1 package holiday company with a well known brand and no direct competitor at LPL (No TUI etc) wouldn't your pax already be happy to go to Manchester?

Manchester must be able to accommodate further growth for them in the next 18-24 months. If they can't they need to be asking serious questions of themselves as an airport. Would Jet2 go to all the hassle with a new LPL base to then grow again at Manchester in the foreseeable?


But there is Tui from Liverpool and Easyjet Holidays, all using Easyjet aircraft. Therefore Jet2 is missing at least some of this. Is it so much hassle for Jet2 , they are at EMA and BHX after all.

[rog747]

Originally Posted by VLCfkight
Liverpool-based Arrowsmith Holidays, used to operate programmes from both Liverpool and Manchester using mostly Laker and Cambrian Airways aircraft...
... never a problem filling the aircraft even though the programme was in the main ´mirrored´ at both airports. (and Lord Brothers too - owned by Laker)

VickersVicount
Perhaps before the gluttony of self book low cost options everywhere… particularly MAN (compared to Liverpool)



Here's the thing though chaps and ladies -
Jet2 are pretty much distancing themselves from the Low-Cost flights only model as their core business, and going for >>>> guess what ? Package Holidays...gosh who would have thought....

As BACsuperVC10 points out - >
But there is TUI from Liverpool and Easyjet Holidays, all using Easyjet aircraft.

But Jet2 Holidays are serious about selling the whole in-house Package Tour model --- With regard to Liverpool they would have an open ticket compared to TUI and Easyjet Holidays.
The competitors marketing is not up there with Jet2 Holidays.

[chinapattern]

I’m curious as to what growth Jet2 envisages. Is it more of the same, increasing frequencies and capacity to the likes of Alicante and Tenerife? Is opening more bases across the U.K.? Or is it launching some new destinations, especially ones growing in popularity where TUI seem to have the monopoly? How about more city break destinations? Or all of the above?

[chaps1954]

I really cannot see why Jet2 would want a LPL operation as a high percentage of MAN operation come from Wales and Merseyside
anyway so all that would be doing is reduce the Manchester loads.and it would add to costs plus unless they had a large based fleet
they would have the pleasure of using a handling agent instead of self handling

[ATNotts]

I really cannot see why Jet2 would want a LPL operation as a high percentage of MAN operation come from Wales and Merseyside
anyway so all that would be doing is reduce the Manchester loads.and it would add to costs plus unless they had a large based fleet
they would have the pleasure of using a handling agent instead of self handling
But what you're missing is the potential for taking business away from TUI which given that the overall market is finite is important if Jet2 wants to maintain their position as the largest tour operator in UK.

[cavokblues]

But then that's an argument for them to go into nearly every major airport in the country.

The positioning of LPL airport, north of the Mersey, means for a lot of people there is minimal time difference in getting to LPL over Manchester. If I live in St Helen's Manchester is only 10 mins further away.

The positioning of East Midlands over BHX doesn't have that, there is a clear time saving for a lot of the people living nearby to get there over BHX.

Question for Jet2 - is their brand powerful enough and are they price competitive enough to attract people from North Wales to drive an extra 15-20 mins up the motorway to fly with them over a TUI holiday sold on easyJet flights. I would say the answer at the moment is yes.

(I'm not saying they won't go to LPL, just thinking out loud as to the reasons why they might not!)

[DC3 Dave]

I could see Jet2 at LPL but not under their own family friendly brand. Perhaps a subsidiary crewed by burly types and a premium on every ticket to cover diversions to remove unruly passengers.

I have not settled on a name yet. Scouser Jet or Scally Air.

[SWBKCB]

I could see Jet2 at LPL but not under their own family friendly brand. Perhaps a subsidiary crewed by burly types and a premium on every ticket to cover diversions to remove unruly passengers.

I have not settled on a name yet. Scouser Jet or Scally Air.

Says somebody from Essex... :eek:

[chaps1954]

The thing is Manchester have had the Welsh contingent for years as it takes no longer to get there.

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by VLCfkight
Liverpool-based Arrowsmith Holidays, used to operate programmes from both Liverpool and Manchester using mostly Laker and Cambrian Airways aircraft...

However, that was in the days before multiple motorway routes between Merseyside and Manchester, which now make the latter's airport only about an hour's drive. It's even more pronounced from the Wirral side. Liverpool airport's poor (non-existent) motorway links are a significant part. Although you can see the Welsh hills to the west from Liverpool's control tower, Manchester, to the east, is actually much quicker to get to from there than Liverpool.

By the mid-1980s (after Laker and Cambrian's time), when this road network was mostly complete, there was so little traffic at Liverpool that I was quite surprised the airport was not closed down for good.

But what you're missing is the potential for taking business away from TUI which given that the overall market is finite is important if Jet2 wants to maintain their position as the largest tour operator in UK.
Philip Meeson has kept Jet2 in good financial position by going for financially worthwhile markets and growth with a competent product, and not indulging in willy-waving "I'm bigger than you are" over-expansion into marginal markets.

[ezyBoh]

An airline can think about opening bases in the UK or Northern Europe but as the Southern European airports you are hoping to fly to/from are becoming increasingly slot restricted then it's a non starter.

[pug]

An airline can think about opening bases in the UK or Northern Europe but as the Southern European airports you are hoping to fly to/from are becoming increasingly slot restricted then it's a non starter.

Exactly this. There are some myopic opinions on here. Notice for example that the ‘friendly flight times’ tagline has been quietly dropped in recent years. It’s becoming increasingly difficult to acquire slots at those constrained destinations and to commit to another new base will just make the job that much harder.

[irishlad06]

Any truth to the rumour that some or all of G-ZAPX is headed to Jet2? Looks like Titan has now retired it.

this could be the one that Jet2 have bought for spare parts -

[Rivet Joint]

this could be the one that Jet2 have bought for spare parts -

Parting out a 22 year old aircraft for 35 year old aircraft? Yeah some strange logic there.

[Chesty Morgan]

Yes because every part is either 22 or 35 years old :rolleyes:

[cavokblues]

;) like trigger's well maintained broom....

[BACsuperVC10]

Says somebody from Essex... :eek:
Quite, !

[BACsuperVC10]

However, that was in the days before multiple motorway routes between Merseyside and Manchester, which now make the latter's airport only about an hour's drive. It's even more pronounced from the Wirral side. Liverpool airport's poor (non-existent) motorway links are a significant part. Although you can see the Welsh hills to the west from Liverpool's control tower, Manchester, to the east, is actually much quicker to get to from there than Liverpool.

By the mid-1980s (after Laker and Cambrian's time), when this road network was mostly complete, there was so little traffic at Liverpool that I was quite surprised the airport was not closed down for good.


Philip Meeson has kept Jet2 in good financial position by going for financially worthwhile markets and growth with a competent product, and not indulging in willy-waving "I'm bigger than you are" over-expansion into marginal markets.
the access to Liverpool Airport by road is very good. Its dual carriage all the way to the terminal , the M57M62 are not far and M56 is easy too. Road access is not a problem at all, anecdotally, I've spoken to passengees from Staffs , Wirral, Blackburn, Llandudno and Bolton,. You have to also remember its a smaller airport and with that its quick and easy to use. Many people go for that because its less stress. If Jet2 are short of space at Manchester and if they want to have a slice of the passenger who would usually fly from Liverpool Airport out of preference, its a bit of a no brained.

[BACsuperVC10]

I really cannot see why Jet2 would want a LPL operation as a high percentage of MAN operation come from Wales and Merseyside
anyway so all that would be doing is reduce the Manchester loads.and it would add to costs plus unless they had a large based fleet
they would have the pleasure of using a handling agent instead of self handling

But then a high percentage of LPLs passengers are from the same areas, plus lancs and Greater Manchester.

[chaps1954]

General gist for Jet2 is about 15 mins either way to get through now days 30 mins max in peak times and of course Jet are self handling so very quick and friendly

[EZYPZY]

I could see Jet2 at LPL but not under their own family friendly brand. Perhaps a subsidiary crewed by burly types and a premium on every ticket to cover diversions to remove unruly passengers.

I have not settled on a name yet. Scouser Jet or Scally Air.

FYI A Jet2 flight from STN to DLM was forced to divert back to STN in 2019 due to a disruptive PAX. Happens everywhere nowadays I’m afraid, including in Essex. 😘

[EZYPZY]

FYI A Jet2 flight from STN to DLM was forced to divert back to STN in 2019 due to a disruptive PAX. Happens everywhere nowadays I’m afraid, including in Essex. 😘

For clarity here’s the BBC article on the incident;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-49017838.amp

[BACsuperVC10]

General gist for Jet2 is about 15 mins either way to get through now days 30 mins max in peak times and of course Jet are self handling so very quick and friendly

And if Jet2 were operating from Liverpool similar, but also quick security and passports on the way back.

[chaps1954]

Unless Jet2 open with *8 aircraft or more it won`t be self handling and of course MAN is quick on return

[MANFOD]

I think this continual exchange of views as to whether Jet 2 should open a LPL base or focus on further expansion at MAN to serve the region is no longer productive.frankly. The debate is in danger of just going round in circles. Jet 2 will decide how they can best expand the market and gain market share, and I doubt any arguments on here will persuade them one way or another. We don't even know for sure whether they plan to open a new base let alone where that would be if they do. Obviously capacity and slot constraints at airports will be one factor.

[SWBKCB]

The debate is in danger of just going round in circles

in danger?!? :eek: I think we are on our third or fourth circuit :ok:

[Smudge's Lot]

Love all the Airline Executives on here who know better that the current Jet2 management of what to do:rolleyes:

[davidjohnson6]

There is probably more airline management expertise in the heads of some people (no, that definitely does NOT include me) on this website than in the heads of the fund managers employed by many of the pension funds / insurers which are major shareholders (and get to vote on the major decisions) of many airlines. I don't know much about Jet2 as a business... but some of those who post here really do know their stuff

[azz767]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/827x1326/f07defbf_51fc_471b_aa80_a496b9e3bce4_c5cecb7e5633f855d1fe9b8 93ec9ab4933966bc6.jpeg
Debate settled

[pug]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/827x1326/f07defbf_51fc_471b_aa80_a496b9e3bce4_c5cecb7e5633f855d1fe9b8 93ec9ab4933966bc6.jpeg
Debate settled

Have to say that was a curve ball, and having checked the booking engine it is in there. Great news for LPL and for Jet2.

[BHX5DME]

Now official, well done Liverpool :-)
More capacity for the North West.

[davidjohnson6]

So what happens now to Jet2's network at Manchester for S24 ? Would one expect a slight cut / zero increase in frequency on core routes like Alicante / Mallorca / Tenerife, and increases in capacity on the routes not served from LPL or even the opening of a modest number of additional routes ?

[VickersVicount]

This is about expansion and market share, not about cuts or transfers from MAN

[ATNotts]

Love all the Airline Executives on here who know better that the current Jet2 management of what to do:rolleyes:
No not necessarily, however it does suggest that there are some people on here that understand business strategy and building market share.

LPL was, for many of the reasons espoused upthread one of only a few airports remaining in UK where parachuting 3 or 4 aircraft in makes economic sense.

Eventually, but not in the short term, SEN and CWL could be other potentials, all depending of course on the state of the economy/market.

[CabinCrewe]

LBA-CPH coming back. I was sure they were drifting away from city routes. You’d think a good route from other bases.

[SWBKCB]

Nice short route that can be slotted in to keep utilisation up.

[pug]

No not necessarily, however it does suggest that there are some people on here that understand business strategy and building market share.

LPL was, for many of the reasons espoused upthread one of only a few airports remaining in UK where parachuting 3 or 4 aircraft in makes economic sense.

Eventually, but not in the short term, SEN and CWL could be other potentials, all depending of course on the state of the economy/market.

I can assure you that this has come as a complete, yet welcome shock to many of those at the coal face. Particularly when that very question was rebuffed a mere couple of months ago at an internal conference.

It’s no secret that they have been in talks for many years, as they will be with a number of other airports. On balance it does make complete sense, the largest city until now not served by the UK’s largest tour operator. Obviously a strategic benefit to strike now. Also a lot of space in the terminal that can be turned red.

Happy to have been proven wrong.

[laviation]

LBA-CPH coming back. I was sure they were drifting away from city routes. You’d think a good route from other bases.
MAN-CPH has about 3 or 4 carriers on it, with Norwegian starting it soon.. don’t think it’s worth the risk

[SWBKCB]

MAN-CPH has about 3 or 4 carriers on it, with Norwegian starting it soon.. don’t think it’s worth the risk

Fortunately they have other bases :ok:

[BHX5DME]

Credit TTG - So actually 4 aircraft not 3 and 565,000 seats nice boost for Liverpool

The airline and operator has put 565,000 summer 2024 seats on sale across 20 destinations from LJLA, with flights taking off on 28 March ahead of the Easter getaway. Jet2 will base four aircraft at LJLA, flying to mainland Spain, the Canaries and Balearics, as well as Greece, Turkey, Bulgaria, Portugal and Cyprus.
It will operate up to 54 weekly flights from Liverpool during peak summer, including 12 a week each to the Canaries and the Balearics. LJLA will gain seven brand-new routes in total – Bourgas (Bulgaria), Gran Canaria, Madeira, Menorca, Paphos, Rhodes and Zante.

Jet2 said its decision to set up at Liverpool came in response to "enormous demand" from customers and agents in the North West, and would create more than 200 jobs locally spanning flight deck and cabin crew roles, as well as opportunities in engineering and ground handling.

Jet2.com is this year celebrating the 20th anniversary of its UK flight operations; it will operate a fleet of 119 aircraft this summer, flying to around 70 destinations. Jet2holidays, meanwhile, is now the UK’s largest operator by Atol authorisations (https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/jet2-bosss-message-to-agents-as-firm-overtakes-tui-as-uks-largest-tour-operator-38476), licensed to carry 5.86 million passengers this year.

Steve Heapy, Jet2.com and Jet2holidays chief executive, said: "This announcement further expands our footprint and comes on the back of the enormous demand we know is out there from customers and independent travel agents across Liverpool, Merseyside and the wider region. We have seen that demand really ramp up over the past couple of years, so we know there will be a fantastic response to this launch.

"The announcement of our 11th UK airport reflects our long-term strategy to continue growing responsibly to become the UK’s leading and best leisure travel business. It also means significant investment in the region, with four based aircraft coming into operation and the creation of over 200 new jobs."

John Irving, Liverpool John Lennon airport chief executive, added: “This is a great day for the airport and for the region’s holidaymakers. For the first time, travellers from across the Liverpool City Region and beyond will have the opportunity to book package holidays with the UK’s leading package holiday provider, direct from Liverpool John Lennon airport.

"It’s also great to have seven new routes available that we know will be popular with holidaymakers and for our local independent travel agents to be able to sell."JET2’S SUMMER 2024 LIVERPOOL SCHEDULE IN FULL

Mainland Spain

Alicante – up to four weekly services (Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday)

Canary Islands

Fuerteventura – up to two weekly services (Wednesday and Saturday)
Gran Canaria – up to two weekly services (Tuesday and Saturday)
Lanzarote – up to three weekly services (Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday)
Tenerife – up to five weekly services (Tuesday, Thursday Friday, Saturday and Sunday)

Balearic Islands

Ibiza – up to three weekly services (Monday, Friday and Saturday)
Majorca – up to seven weekly services (Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday Friday, Saturday and Sunday)
Menorca – up to two weekly services (Wednesday and Sunday)

Portugal

Faro – up to four weekly services (Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday)
Madeira – weekly Monday services

Greece

Corfu – up to two weekly services (Monday and Friday)
Crete (Heraklion) – up to two weekly services (Tuesday and Friday)
Kos – weekly Friday services
Rhodes – up to two weekly services (Monday and Thursday)
Zante – weekly Wednesday services – exclusive route

Cyprus​

Paphos – weekly Wednesday services

Turkey

Antalya – up to four weekly services (Monday, Thursday, Friday and Sunday)
Dalaman – up to four weekly services (Monday, Tuesday, Friday and Saturday)
Bodrum – up to two weekly services (Wednesday and Sunday)

Bulgaria

Bourgas – up to two weekly services (Monday and Thursday)

[rog747]

LPL - coughs *ahem told you so LOL

[BHX5DME]

LPL - coughs *ahem told you so LOL

It was always going to be Liverpool and not the best kept secret.

It adds needed capacity to the NW and avoids the need to put more units into Manchester.

Manchester will grow naturally as the A21N's continue to arrive as these add 20% more seats compared to the 738

Hopefully Liverpool will thrive and more units will be added to a point Jet 2 self handle there too.

Jet 2 are a very well run outfit and they know exactly what they are doing to serve their customers best.

[SWBKCB]

Jet2 reportedly set to announce yet another new base soon.

Where will it be: ABZ, LPL, BOH, SEN, SOU, EXT, CWL & MME must all be crying out for them to come along with the Jet2Holidays product, or will the go big into LTN or LGW?..

Think this guy gets the credit! :ok:

[laviation]

I'm told Liverpool is initially 4x based 737-800s in Summer 2024. Expect more to come once Manchester starts moving towards an A321neo dominated hub.

[Rutan16]

The concept of check against MAG is totally irrelevant to be honest . Jet2 are now “the” established holiday company with airline attached business in the UK targeting families in particular.

They already have a presence at Leeds, Manchester, and East Midlands and evidently aren’t opposed to operating from airports in relatively close proximity ( subject to available local market potential to draw from)

We could add Birmingham and Newcastle to that mix as well.

I would not be surprised at all if an operation of two or three aircraft from Liverpool to popular Palma, Alicante, Malaga, Tenerife, a Greek isle ( or two), Paphos and Dalaman with attached packages were in their plans .

Such offerings would not cannibalise Manchester that much imho as they would be marketing at a more local ( City region) dynamic and with their family friendly marketing pitch to boot.

In winter a single part time aircraft might suffice for ski and sun holidays .

Example Chambéry, Tenerife , Lanzarote , Paphos .

Basically I am saying if Jet2 Holidays potential sales, (and analysis of prior trends surpass a threshold) then the vehicles (aircraft) will be delivered to support that demand.

This advocacy might surprise a few here and another place “tall towers”

The Jet2 offering differs in fundamental ways from Easy/Ryan and Wizz and even Tui at certain price points .

And the traditional package offering remains enticing to families that haven’t the time to build out there own deals ( in some cases the legal protections and ATOL bonds are also an added bonus when spending several thousands for that annual summer trip)

So as I previously suggested - Good for Jet2 Holidays the city region of Liverpool and indeed employment in the North West.

[BHX5DME]

Credit TTGJet2.com and Jet2holidays will commit dedicated resource to launching flights and holidays from its new Liverpool base (https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/breaking-news/jet2-to-launch-flights-and-holidays-from-liverpool-next-year-40212) – its 11th – to agents in Liverpool, the North West and north Wales, chief executive Steve Heapy has told TTG.

The airline and operator on Tuesday (16 May) confirmed it would base four aircraft at Liverpool John Lennon airport next summer (https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/breaking-news/jet2-to-launch-flights-and-holidays-from-liverpool-next-year-40212), with flights due to get under way on 28 March 2023 – just in time for the Easter getaway.

Jet2’s first flight out of Liverpool will be to Tenerife, with the company set to offer 20 destinations in total. These include mainland Spain, the Canaries and the Balearics, as well as Greece, Turkey, Bulgaria, Portugal and Cyprus. Seven of the routes are brand new to Liverpool airport.

"Everyone is extremely excited about having our product come to the Greater Liverpool catchment area," said Heapy. "The reason we looked to Liverpool was because of the demand – demand from the airport, the customers who live in the catchment area, and the independent travel agents that serve this area.

"It’s a huge catchment area that goes from north Wales into Cheshire and extends right up to Cumbria. A lot of people want to travel from Liverpool airport, and currently do, but they don’t have a real package holiday product here. We’re able to supply that in addition to flight-only. We’re very happy to meet that demand."
Heapy said the Jet2holidays trade team, led by director of travel trade relationships Alan Cross (https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/jet2holidays-trade-lead-alan-cross-promoted-to-new-director-role-39424), was already busy contacting agents in the area. "I think we’ll have dedicated resource for this catchment area," Heapy continued.

"It’s not a new catchment area really, we know a lot of the agents already, but I hope we will be getting much closer to them and doing a lot more business with them over the next few months and years so it follows that they will need support from us."

"One of the big reasons we decided to announce Liverpool was the incredible demand from travel agents over the months and years. The voices from Liverpool were very loud and we know we will have the support of our independent travel agents partners. We’re looking forward to working very closely with them."

Pausing to address the trade directly, Heapy said: "I’d like to thank them for their support, their resilience over the past three years and the fact they’ve responded by adapting their business models. That’s why we’re seeing a resurgence in high street travel agents, and that’s fantastic.

"Stay positive, keep talking to us, and between us, we will continue to grow and create sustainable, growing and profitable business for us all."

[The AvgasDinosaur]

A321NEO G-SUND will be test flown as D-AYAM.

[The Flying Stool]

Here's an interesting development- Jet2 have bought ex Titan Airways 757 G-ZAPX and re-registered it as G-LSAO. Initially it was thought to be to be used for spares, however, it's a 2000 model with around 38000 hours on it. Most of the other 757s are late 80s to mid 90s build with 80-90000 hours on them.

​​​​​It will be interesting to see if it's added to the fleet or not, given that it's been re-registered. Given the delay in A321NEO deliveries, it could be a short term capacity boost!

I never thought I'd see a 757 being added to the fleet!

[P330]

Would be great to see it become active!

You mention A321 delays; what is the delivery plan for this year? How does that compare to what was expected?

[The Flying Stool]

Originally, they were planning on having 7 A321 NEOs in service for the summer. One has been delivered so far with the second due in the coming weeks. They are delayed due to issues obtaining raw materials for the engines I'm told.

[SWBKCB]

If it's short term cover for late 321's, would they need to buy it?

[Kevgti]

On the travel weekly interview last week Steve said 119 aircraft this year. Nothing else is showing as a planned delivery so wouldn't be surprised if LSAO enters service as the 119th frame. It's showing as reconfigured back to Y202....why would that happen if it was for parts?

[Buster the Bear]

Why send ZAPX/LSAO to Kemble if it wasn't for spares recovery? Well unless other MROs are maxed out and cannot reconfigure from TCX interior? CofA expires in 12 months, but no Idea when the next major check is due? Last at 2Excel Engineering Nov/Dec 2021.

G-LSAO is 23 years old, whilst G-LSAE is 35! Plenty of mileage in her yet?

[jethro15]

Just to throw a spanner in the works! How about (G-JZBY) ex C-GTOH currently at Hamilton

That would indeed make 119. G-LSAO makes 120

[chaps1954]

Could it be that 1 of the older 757s will leave the fleet or maybe a 733, lots of questions which I am sure will come out in the wash.

[laviation]

I’m led to believe the slow exit of the 752 will start by Summer 2024.

[Rivet Joint]

Funny how I raise a topic of conversation on this thread, get bashed for it and then a week or so later you’re all talking about my topic. Must be ahead of the curve. 300s being replaced by 800s and the 757 being too young for parts by the way.

[chaps1954]

Sorry Rivet Joint I did not read your post

[Ironside0]

Why send ZAPX/LSAO to Kemble if it wasn't for spares recovery? Well unless other MROs are maxed out and cannot reconfigure from TCX interior? CofA expires in 12 months, but no Idea when the next major check is due? Last at 2Excel Engineering Nov/Dec 2021.

G-LSAO is 23 years old, whilst G-LSAE is 35! Plenty of mileage in her yet?
LSAH has been parked at Kemble with its engines removed since withdrawal but not broken up unlike others that have ended up there,maybe interior doner?

[TheFiddler]

Unless Jet2 open with *8 aircraft or more it won`t be self handling and of course MAN is quick on return

BRS has 4 airframes and is self handling so how do you explain that?

[chaps1954]

Lucky lol!

[irishlad06]

BRS has 4 airframes and is self handling so how do you explain that?

they currently have 5 aircraft at present soon to increase to 7 for this summer - and the reasons of fully self handling was because their below wing provider was so shocking last year they needed to bring it in house. This is the same for Newcastle too. The sweet spot is normally 6-8 aircraft however if their ramp handler is providing a decent service then they are happy to run with it. E.g Glasgow

They are planning initially to spot ice their own check in / boarding and dispatchers for Liverpool initially but that is it for now.

[irishlad06]

Would be great to see it become active!

You mention A321 delays; what is the delivery plan for this year? How does that compare to what was expected?

There should currently be 3 in operation. Both SUND and SUNC are running late. Another A321ceo moves from MAN to BHX this week which will leave MAN with 1 CEO and 1 NEO. There should be 5 NEO’s in place in MAN by OCT/NOV based on current delivery dates.

[chaps1954]

If so what is covering the late A321neos at MAN

[laviation]

Been seen at Hamburg-XFW a few times in the last month, this will be the 3rd NEO. Not sure what's going on with G-SUNC, no trace of that on this Twitter page at least
https://twitter.com/Tobias_Gudat/status/1661766900777451522?s=20

[laviation]

A330s to be kept at MAN year round from Winter 2024.

[chaps1954]

Probably trundling down to Canairies and back which will have to keep them busy as leased in

[simoncorbett]

This will be after the 757’s have gone ?

[chaps1954]

The 757s are with them until 2026.

[eggc]

LS have more than enough spare frames in the winter months to handle anything to anywhere around Europe in these months - so if they are keeping the 330's then I highly doubt they are for the Canaries. Long haul winter sun inbound I would say :)

[LBAflyer22]

LS have more than enough spare frames in the winter months to handle anything to anywhere around Europe in these months - so if they are keeping the 330's then I highly doubt they are for the Canaries. Long haul winter sun inbound I would say :)

Except with the exception of the handful of EWR flights it did; Jet2 filled the a330 throughout the winter in winter 19/20.

[B73G]

Perhaps SUNC, much like possibly SUNK, will be missed from the registration lists for obvious reasons…

[TCX69]

So G-SUNB/C/D will all be in the Jet2 Holidays livery! 😫

Anyone know if any of the A321neo’s will be delivered in the Jet2.com livery??

[P330]

I’m not suggesting it’s time to ditch the Jet2.com brand but certainly the tag line ‘friendly low fares’ is no longer appropriate.

Countless examples out there but I had been looking at options to mainland Spain this weekend for many months. Granted, it’s peak time but since when was £550 return a friendly low fare?

I get the push to use their package holidays but lo-co flight only options are as rare as hen’s teeth nowadays.

[SamuelDonuts]

So G-SUNB/C/D will all be in the Jet2 Holidays livery! 😫

Anyone know if any of the A321neo’s will be delivered in the Jet2.com livery??

There will be examples with the red tail livery we’ve been told.

To answer an above question G-SUNC is definitely not being missed out, and it is being built at XFW alongside SUND. XFW Spotter is doing a great job keeping a track of all the builds there.

[N707ZS]

Any idea what dates G-JZDA,B,C 738s are due in service?

[laviation]

One thinks G-SUNK should be christened Jet2Chequers !!!

[Kevgti]

One thinks G-SUNK should be christened Jet2Chequers !!!
I'm surprised that nobody else has replied as of yet and not wanting to make this forum political in any way,,,,,given the slow rate of A21N deliveries and rapid rate of PM deliveries it's highly possible that by the time G-SUNK is delivered naming it Jet2Chequers will be too late,

[FLEX65]

Anyone in the know as to whether any of the NEOs will eventually be based at LBA?
Apparently on a wet day, LBA could be performance limiting for the 321NEO.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Anyone in the know as to whether any of the NEOs will eventually be based at LBA?
Apparently on a wet day, LBA could be performance limiting for the 321NEO.
Compared to a TriStar-1?
:p

[pabely]

Anyone in the know as to whether any of the NEOs will eventually be based at LBA?
Apparently on a wet day, LBA could be performance limiting for the 321NEO.
Have Wizzair 321NEOs had any issues?

[LBAflyer22]

Have Wizzair 321NEOs had any issues?

I work at LBA. Not that we are aware of. So I suspect same will be said for Jet2.

[stewyb]

Anyone in the know as to whether any of the NEOs will eventually be based at LBA?
Apparently on a wet day, LBA could be performance limiting for the 321NEO.

Can’t think there would be a problem as Wizz 321neo operate successfully from LTN with no issues and their runway is shorter

[pabely]

Perhaps the person who posted the question was hoping Jet2 get some 321LRs for holiday routes to Cape Verdi & Dubai!

[pug]

I work at LBA. Not that we are aware of. So I suspect same will be said for Jet2.

Different engines and way of operating. May not see the Jet2 A321 at LBA (just IMO) but certainly the A320 if/when they arrive.

[P330]

Nerdy question….apologies.

Jet2 have 34 new build 738s, or to put it another way, 43% of their 738 fleet are new build.

I was led to believe all 738s just move around the bases and there are no specific allocations. Yet, if you look at NCL operations over the last few months, the vast majority of the aircraft are new build. Yes, they move around, but the maths still show it’s a mainly new build base. The last week for example, 7 out of 8 are new, way ahead of the expected 43% if it were just random.

Is this just a coincidence or is there an operational decision to put more new builds at NCL?

[J2wannabe]

Nerdy question….apologies.

Jet2 have 34 new build 738s, or to put it another way, 43% of their 738 fleet are new build.

I was led to believe all 738s just move around the bases and there are no specific allocations. Yet, if you look at NCL operations over the last few months, the vast majority of the aircraft are new build. Yes, they move around, but the maths still show it’s a mainly new build base. The last week for example, 7 out of 8 are new, way ahead of the expected 43% if it were just random.

Is this just a coincidence or is there an operational decision to put more new builds at NCL?

going out on a whim here by saying it’s coincidence, jet2 love the term ‘to fit the operation’ they’ll send aircraft anywhere and everywhere however I do see the certain AC won’t leave other bases or are only shared via 2 for example FJ and FF without the winglets always seem to be at STN or MAN. However I wanna say the others just get allocated when needed i suppose.

[Downwind_Left]

Jet2 have a lot of older 737-800s, since 2006 the SFP (Short Field Performance) package has been available. It improved the takeoff and landing performance of the type. TUI I believe have all their aircraft modified. But with Jet2 having a mixed fleet it would make sense to keep the SFP aircraft in bases where it was most beneficial.
737NG SFP (http://www.b737.org.uk/flightcontrols.htm#Short-field_Performance_Enhancement_Program)

[LBIA]

going out on a whim here by saying it’s coincidence, jet2 love the term ‘to fit the operation’ they’ll send aircraft anywhere and everywhere however I do see the certain AC won’t leave other bases or are only shared via 2 for example FJ and FF without the winglets always seem to be at STN or MAN. However I wanna say the others just get allocated when needed i suppose.

Funny you should mention FF, as she's now back at LBA for the first in 12 months...

LBA sees quiet a mixture of old and newer Boeing 737-800s depending on maintenance requirements. Oh we can't get rid of the Boeing 737-300 work horses...

[GBYAJ]

Nerdy question….apologies.

Jet2 have 34 new build 738s, or to put it another way, 43% of their 738 fleet are new build.

I was led to believe all 738s just move around the bases and there are no specific allocations. Yet, if you look at NCL operations over the last few months, the vast majority of the aircraft are new build. Yes, they move around, but the maths still show it’s a mainly new build base. The last week for example, 7 out of 8 are new, way ahead of the expected 43% if it were just random.

Is this just a coincidence or is there an operational decision to put more new builds at NCL?

love the question as the mathematician in me has always tried to work out if rotations are random or carefully planned or somewhere in between

just to provide more stats to digest in 2019 from
NCL we flew out and back on new 737’s (JZHJ and JZBO ) but last year it was the much older GDFP and GDFS. At that time there seemed to be more older models based than new!

[Mr Mac]

Just had a phone call from a very annoyed Mrs Mac. You may re call earlier in this thread a point I raised re booking flight only trips with Jet 2 and the fact that you get shoved onto the last flights of the day. Well this morning she received an email offering all the earlier flights which were not available to her earlier this year at a cheaper price. To say she is unimpressed is a slight understatement.

I suggested she phone Jet 2 customer relations rather than rant at her husband who is on the other side of the continent !! However I do agree with her it is sharp practise especially when she had this discussion with them and was specifically told that these flights would be for their Holiday customers only. So they either lied or their booking’s v capacity are out of tilt. Anyway glad I am not in customer relations at Jet 2 this morning.

Cheers
Mr Mac

[WHBM]

I don't understand, especially for someone with likely more knowledge of the industry than average, your dismay here. Flights to resort destinations are commonly designed around full holiday sales. As the departure nears and booking trends are recalculated, then further seat-only seats can commonly be made available , if there are now different forecasts. Maybe, maybe not. Saying the company 'lied' is quite inappropriate trolling, that's exactly how it was at the time.

It also aligns with typical booking patterns, where those booking holidays peak several months beforehand, while seat-only bookings do so just days/weeks before departure.

Do you get hacked at the supermarket if they charge you £2 for a loaf of bread, when 15 minutes before closing they offer the same product, but only if they have any left, at 20p ?

[True Blue]

Yes this is them just selling off seats to raise some money, that they feel will not be sold for holidays. Remember, once that door closes at departure, if that seat is empty, it is a perished product.

[flybar]

I don't understand, especially for someone with likely more knowledge of the industry than average, your dismay here. Flights to resort destinations are commonly designed around full holiday sales. As the departure nears and booking trends are recalculated, then further seat-only seats can commonly be made available , if there are now different forecasts. Maybe, maybe not. Saying the company 'lied' is quite inappropriate trolling, that's exactly how it was at the time.

It also aligns with typical booking patterns, where those booking holidays peak several months beforehand, while seat-only bookings do so just days/weeks before departure.

Do you get hacked at the supermarket if they charge you £2 for a loaf of bread, when 15 minutes before closing they offer the same product, but only if they have any left, at 20p ?

Another example of the complaining society that has developed in UK in recent years
They get upset if they find that the person sitting next to them.paid less for their flight. They might have got their act together and booked earlier or the booking system cleared a number of empty seats or as has been suggested the block booking for holidays was over ambitious.
Welcome to the real world!

[Mr Mac]

Well a quick up date she has moved her flight time successfully, and has not paid for the privilege she tells me after discussion with Jet 2.

The use of the word lied, which seems to have caused some emotion is correct. She was told specifically that these flights were ONLY available for their Holiday customers, and that she could not book flight only on them and that they would not be released for flight only. As to the cost, that was immaterial, it was the time off departure / arrival that was her concern. They moved the goalposts at the very least.

I do travel probably more by air than the average person, though on here I am pretty sure there are others with equal or if not greater knowledge of being SLF, but I do find it odd that a company specifically say Holidays only, then changes the rules like that. You are an airline or a holiday company, I struggle to see how you can do both. Would it not be reasonable to allow so many seats for Holiday and so many for flight only on a given A/C ? Anyway she is happy with the outcome which for me is the main thing.

Cheers
M Mac

[SWBKCB]

She was told specifically that these flights were ONLY available for their Holiday customers, and that she could not book flight only on them and that they would not be released for flight only.

This is the mistake - should have been told 'currently only available for their Holiday customers' and maybe available later as flight only later, but couldn't be guaranteed. This would then have been like the normal variable pricing used to fill up aircraft.

[flybar]

Well a quick up date she has moved her flight time successfully, and has not paid for the privilege she tells me after discussion with Jet 2.

The use of the word lied, which seems to have caused some emotion is correct. She was told specifically that these flights were ONLY available for their Holiday customers, and that she could not book flight only on them and that they would not be released for flight only. As to the cost, that was immaterial, it was the time off departure / arrival that was her concern. They moved the goalposts at the very least.

I do travel probably more by air than the average person, though on here I am pretty sure there are others with equal or if not greater knowledge of being SLF, but I do find it odd that a company specifically say Holidays only, then changes the rules like that. You are an airline or a holiday company, I struggle to see how you can do both. Would it not be reasonable to allow so many seats for Holiday and so many for flight only on a given A/C ? Anyway she is happy with the outcome which for me is the main thing.

Cheers
M Mac

Tui profess to be a Holiday Company but you can also book flight only. Nothing odd about being both

[inOban]

'I do travel probably more by air than the average person'

You certainly do, since the average person hasn't flown at all in the last 12 months!

[BHX5DME]

This is the mistake - should have been told 'currently only available for their Holiday customers' and maybe available later as flight only later, but couldn't be guaranteed. This would then have been like the normal variable pricing used to fill up aircraft.

The Jet2 flights app is dreadful now, they definetly do not have all holiday flight in the flight only app.
So you cannot book all flights as flight only.

[Jamesair1]

When you look on the website and get the flight timetable, it definately has Holiday Only flights blocked out for flight only travellers, so there is no uncertanty there.

[BHX5DME]

When you look on the website and get the flight timetable, it definately has Holiday Only flights blocked out for flight only travellers, so there is no uncertanty there.

Exactly !
Never used to be the case but it is now.

[davidjohnson6]

If you visit the TUI website and try to book a one-way flight on some routes 6+ months in advance, the website will happily tell you that every seat has already been booked. Wait until 2 weeks before departure, and the TUI website magically has seats available. Look for example at TUI flights between Gatwick and Frankfurt - TUI want to sell these for people living in the UK who are booking a complete all-inclusive 1-week river cruise package holiday along the Rhine - they are not interested in helping people who consider Lufthansa expensive for travelling between a company's London and Frankfurt offices and who would like to save £20 on the normal Lufthansa airfare.

Both TUI and Jet2 are companies that aim to maximise profit for shareholders. They sell the products they want to sell to the people of their choice at the time of their choice at the price of their choice. They are not a Govt-owned public transport service.

[Mr Mac]

'I do travel probably more by air than the average person'

You certainly do, since the average person hasn't flown at all in the last 12 months!
in Oban
If you went back to Covid I would agree with you but over the last 14 months my flights have been full on most trips. My weekly Bus to work is always full in Business and in the back so a lot of people are flying now.

We could use points with LH to fly Mrs Mac to Palma but connections not great and she needs to be in UK on the Friday so not an option. Anyway first world problems as they say.

Cheers
Mr Mac

[P330]

Speculation from the usually reliable SeanM that Jet2 may order 6-10 A330 NEO next week in Paris……

[ATNotts]

Speculation from the usually reliable SeanM that Jet2 may order 6-10 A330 NEO next week in Paris……
A bit premature given that an order hasn't been announced, but probably (in this order) MAN, STN, then BHX for operational bases. If it happens it will give TUI food for thought, as since the demise TCX they have had the UK (outside London) markets petty much to themselves.

[Vokes55]

Not entirely sure where they’d fly them to. TUI make long haul (just about) work thanks to economies of scale across the whole European outbound market, as well as owning half the hotels and cruise ships they serve in the Caribbean. However, even they are being squeezed in certain markets due to increased demand ex-USA and the strong dollar driving up the cost of hotel rooms in the Caribbean/Mexico.

USA is in decline for outbound UK tourists due to cost - loads UK-Florida (across all airlines) are dire right now.

The transatlantic market is heavily dominated by US originating passengers right now, and nobody in the USA has heard of Jet2 (or wants to go to Manchester or Newcastle).

Good luck if true, I’d imagine it’s not though.

[SWBKCB]

That's assuming they would be used in new long haul markets. Could just be used to upgauge their existing markets, though neither seems particularly likely (there, I've just guaranteed the order....:ok:)

[Vokes55]

That's assuming they would be used in new long haul markets. Could just be used to upgauge their existing markets, though neither seems particularly likely (there, I've just guaranteed the order....:ok:)


In which case they’d be better off dragging some 15-20 year old A330s out of Alice Springs or Victorville. Brand new widebodies are incredibly expensive assets to be using on short haul, where the fuel savings are marginal compared to older aircraft with significantly cheaper leasing costs.

These aircraft would have to be used year round, and there are very few short haul markets that require that capacity in November-March (excluding Christmas and half term).

[chinapattern]

Just as long as they don’t paint them in that god awful Holidays livery!

[Flying Hi]

Just as long as they don’t paint them in that god awful Holidays livery!
Much prefer it to the silver/red scheme. Air Tanker A330s look great in Jet2 temporary livery Just add a sunrise tail and ditch that tacky slogan 'friendly low fares'.

[Mr Mac]

I tend to agreed using the older A330 airframe re new purchase as there are some routes to the Spanish resorts and indeed probably Turkey / Cyprus where that carrying capacity at certain time of the year would be useful. Indeed I noted a Conder A330 today in Palma but you don’t need that lifting capability year round apart from maybe to the Canaries.

Jet 2 have a good history it seems with older aircraft so does the new airframe bring other advantages in either fuel burn or something else which makes a new purchase advantageous?

Cheers
Mr Mac

[jethro15]

Dear Mr Airbus

Having recently signed a deal for 35 A20N's (Possible increase to 71), and 63 A21N's (Possible increase to 75). Would it be possible to sit around the table and discuss the acquisition of A339's that would be beneficial to both of us?

[laviation]

To be honest I don't see Jet2 owned A330s based anywhere outside of MAN
Birmingham and Stansted I feel will move to A321-dominated hubs rather than taking on A330s
6-10 would represent a 3-7 A330 upgauge. I feel as if 3-4 of those would be dedicated to Caribbean/other long haul flying
I think a Jet2 base at Gatters is where you will see A330s.

[Vokes55]

I think a Jet2 base at Gatters is where you will see A330s.

And where do you expect Jet2 to get these LGW slots from?

[chaps1954]

There are already a lot of flights ex LGW

[Vokes55]

There are already a lot of flights ex LGW

A few unprofitable charter flights to keep the fleet moving in the depths of winter is a bit different to having enough peak time slots to open a year round base of any significance.

The existing operators will not let Jet2 in. Just look at BA, they’d rather lease slots to easyJet than give them up to the open market.

[chaps1954]

Yes Vokes I agree, Jet2 have pushed TUI out of much of their UK business, mind you TUI have helped by their poor service now days

[Chesty Morgan]

A few unprofitable charter flights to keep the fleet moving in the depths of winter is a bit different to having enough peak time slots to open a year round base of any significance.

The existing operators will not let Jet2 in. Just look at BA, they’d rather lease slots to easyJet than give them up to the open market.
I realise that you consider yourself some kind of expert but WHY would Jet2 operate unprofitable flights when there is no need to "keep the fleet moving"?

[chinapattern]

To be honest I don't see Jet2 owned A330s based anywhere outside of MAN
Birmingham and Stansted
I think a Jet2 base at Gatters is where you will see A330s.

You’ve just completely contradicted yourself there!

[laviation]

You’ve just completely contradicted yourself there!
I was referring to current bases when stating "not outside of MAN"

[Vokes55]

I realise that you consider yourself some kind of expert but WHY would Jet2 operate unprofitable flights when there is no need to "keep the fleet moving"?

Extra sectors for training capacity and pilot recency, brand awareness south of the river, market share in the charter business.

The majority of all European short haul is unprofitable during the winter but market share and other factors mean airlines still fly. If this was any different, it would be done by a based carrier. Or are you trying to tell me that P&O think Jet2 are so wonderful they’re paying them a premium to specifically operate these flights?

Yes Vokes I agree, Jet2 have pushed TUI out of much of their UK business, mind you TUI have helped by their poor service now days

What’s the obsession with TUI? Jet2 would be crushed by a huge orange capacity dump if they ever got into LGW. EasyJet are big enough to absorb losses on a few routes to protect their biggest base from competition.

[Bam Thwok]

What’s the obsession with TUI? Jet2 would be crushed by a huge orange capacity dump if they ever got into LGW. EasyJet are big enough to absorb losses on a few routes to protect their biggest base from competition.

What we’re forgetting here is that in J2 the holiday company now decides where it wants its in-house airline to go.
It’s been clear for the last few years now that “seat only” sales literally take the back seat as to availability for bookings.
So, agreed, Easyjet could dump seat capacity at LGW if J2 were to gain scheduled access.
But I strongly believe that J2 Holidays are canny enough only to enter that particular battle ground if it will work for them in the long term.
Yes, there’s EasyJet Holidays too, but at this time they’re a quarter the size of J2 Holidays and both are expanding continuously at a similar rate.
If it happens, I’m sure J2 could make a commercial success at “Gatters”.

[SWBKCB]

I'm sure that Jet2 would love to be at Gatwick, and I'm sure that Gatwick would love to have them - the issue is how they move from nothing to a sustainable base size, with slots being the primary obstacle.

[Flying Wild]

Extra sectors for training capacity and pilot recency, brand awareness south of the river, market share in the charter business.

The majority of all European short haul is unprofitable during the winter but market share and other factors mean airlines still fly. If this was any different, it would be done by a based carrier. Or are you trying to tell me that P&O think Jet2 are so wonderful they’re paying them a premium to specifically operate these


P&O contract Jet2 as the price is right and more importantly, so is the customer service product. The airline is well known for providing excellent customer service. It’s why Canterbury travel solely use Jet2 for their Santa flights.

[inOban]

The service they provide to other companies is a shop window for their own product

[chaps1954]

The question is who is making big money Jet2 or Easy

[Jamesair1]

They are both public companies, so the figures are published for all to see. The major difference is that EZY also has multiple European bases to throw into the mix

[chaps1954]

The answer is Jet2 by a long way

[V_2]

Jet2 would be crushed by a huge orange capacity dump if they ever got into LGW. EasyJet are big enough to absorb losses on a few routes to protect their biggest base from competition.

im sure Easyjet would try, but people said the same of Ryanair at STN, and how’s that gone for them? It’s hard to dump fares on package holidays when the hotels you don’t own them and to a large extent can’t set their rate. In fact Jet2 can probably undercut easyJet back there via their larger economy of scale with regards to holidays.

[chaps1954]

Jet2 and Ryanair are a very different kettle of fish and even Easy is

[speed13ird]

Jet2 and Ryanair are a very different kettle of fish and even Easy is
An example... Charter airlines make money from the holidays, scheduled airlines make their money from the flights. EZY don't have to worry about unfilled hotel reservations and don't have to worry about handling teams sitting around doing nothing. At the moment it would appear that holiday packages are very popular and will subsidise any inefficiency in the operation such as self handling, EZY have an advantage in ground handling expenditure in that they have more non based arrivals than Jet 2 which guarantees greater utilisation of the ground handling assets during the day. Jet 2 on the other hand have very few non based arrivals meaning that once the early departures have left, the handling teams are under utilised until the aircraft arrive back in the afternoon, and the same applies after the lunchtime departures have gone, the handling teams have nothing to do until the lates come back home. EZY balance departures and arrivals over the course of the day and share their handling agents with other airlines which means their handling costs are lower. IMHO, I think EZY are better placed to weather a downturn.

[chaps1954]

The departures and arrivals of Jet2 are spaced over quite a large time and by the time the last one has gone the first return flight is almost back so time for a quick brew

[FRatSTN]

The issue of ground handling is quite a specific example when considering the overall operational and financial performance of either airline. The point raised about under-utilisation of ground staff for Jet2 at certain times of the day is a fair one, but the same can still be said at various EasyJet stations where they have a more dedicated or exclusive ground handling provider. Ok they may not absord the cost directly, but their contractual terms will inevitably need to cover the cost of those demand variations. Either that or they receive a poorly resourced ground handling provision to which there's a whole host of problems.

Jet2 have a very clear focussed product which is European, mass market, good value package holidays to which they clearly recognise is a market that demands a certain level of service, above that of your traditional low-cost carriers where it's all about cost. The in-house ground handling provision is pivotal to that product/service offering that far outweighs any potential resourcing inefficiencies that may come around by the seasonal nature of Jet2's flying schedule. I for one, looking at the financial position alone and the fact that EasyJet, in my personal opinion, has a far less focussed product than many of it's obvious competitors, would disagree they are better placed to weather a downturn.

[Jonty]

I think EZY are better placed to weather a downturn.

Having just been through the biggest downturn in aviation history, who’s come out of it better? Easy or Jet2?

I think one of the major points what’s not been mentioned is Jet2s corporate structure.

[LGS6753]

Their markets are different too. Jet2 Holidays are recognised to be of good quality, fully inclusive, but at a higher price than just the base components.
On the other hand, EZY sell you a flight, then start adding extras - baggage, seating, hotels, car hire, etc. With EZY they first tell you the base price of the flight, with Jet2 you are given a holiday price.
Both have their niche, and both are good at what they do.

[cavokblues]

I'll be honest, I'm not sure easy even know what they want to be at the moment. Their recent half year update states they want to grow easyJet holidays yet their mission statement insists they're a low cost airline. I think they need to identify what they want to do and do it well as they seem to have lost focus over the last few years with persistent underwhelming results. I'm not sure the existing management have the bandwidth to deliver both effectively.

Easy are much larger but Jet2's performance and results are way more impressive.

[Flying Hi]

MAN - HER this morning climbed to 24000ft, quickly did a 180 descended to 8000 and stooged around Bolton area for a couple of circuits before going back into MAN.
Anyone know what's up? Air-con?

[JonnyH]

MAN - HER this morning climbed to 24000ft, quickly did a 180 descended to 8000 and stooged around Bolton area for a couple of circuits before going back into MAN.
Anyone know what's up? Air-con?

Cabin pressurisation issue.

[garry8g]

Any updates on the delivery of the other 2 A321Neos?

And the other 7 2nd hand B737-800's coming into service?

Peak season is fast approaching.

[chaps1954]

Yes the 2nd A321 first flew 17th June as D-AVXN test reg so guess couple of weeks till delivered to EMA for decals and then on to MAN for pre service checks and mods.
The main problem has been engine delivery
Don`t know about 738s other than G-JZDC has been at Shannon for about a month
+-

[AircraftOperations]

Cabin pressurisation issue.

We were told issue with Engine #1 vibrations

[irishlad06]

We were told issue with Engine #1 vibrations

neither.

[excrab]

neither.

Late roster change via ACARS

[Flying Hi]

Late roster change via ACARS
If thats so, I bet it really pleased the already outbound pax.
According to FR24, G-LSAI hasnt moved since landing.
What happened to the pax?

[JonnyH]

If thats so, I bet it really pleased the already outbound pax.
According to FR24, G-LSAI hasnt moved since landing.
What happened to the pax?

G-LSAN operated the flight.

[AircraftOperations]

Must have been, or been close to, overweight on return. Would that be normal for "just" a crew swap?

[Chesty Morgan]

Of course, happens all the time.

[VickersVicount]

so… what came of this much twittered A330 rumour?

[rubymurray]

Nothing yet but there’s still four days left….

[marco-s]

Good evening all.
this might’ve been asked before, but does anyone have any info on the content of the A320 sim assessment?
Thanks!

[Jonty]

so… what came of this much twittered A330 rumour?

I hope I’m wrong, but I can’t see this happening.

[P330]

going out on a whim here by saying it’s coincidence, jet2 love the term ‘to fit the operation’ they’ll send aircraft anywhere and everywhere however I do see the certain AC won’t leave other bases or are only shared via 2 for example FJ and FF without the winglets always seem to be at STN or MAN. However I wanna say the others just get allocated when needed i suppose.

Just thought I would share an update here, should anyone care. A month since my question on this and there have been several swaps at Newcastle. Every swap has been for another new build. Even the one based second hand unit swapped for a new. For the last week, 100%, or all 8 of the units were new.

You would have to say then it’s highly likely there is an operational reason for this and Jet2 are purposely allocating new builds to NCL and it isn’t random.

(This excludes the odd sub that flies in to cover a delay, does a couple of runs and then moves on).

[laviation]

On the other side of the spectrum, BX, their only 737 fitted with the scimitars, has only ever been at MAN from what I’ve seen😂

[The Flying Stool]

Just thought I would share an update here, should anyone care. A month since my question on this and there have been several swaps at Newcastle. Every swap has been for another new build. Even the one based second hand unit swapped for a new. For the last week, 100%, or all 8 of the units were new.

You would have to say then it’s highly likely there is an operational reason for this and Jet2 are purposely allocating new builds to NCL and it isn’t random.

(This excludes the odd sub that flies in to cover a delay, does a couple of runs and then moves on).

The newer aircraft are classed as "SFP" (Short Field Performance). It means they have minor differences such as the order the slats/flaps deploy. As Newcastle's runway can sometimes be performance limiting in certain conditions, using SFP aircraft means they can lift more weight from the same runway that a non-SFP 737 couldn't. Other bases such as Manchester don't have any performance issues so they see a mix of older and newer aircraft.

[Flying Hi]

Nothing yet but there’s still four days left….
Today must be the day then - or perhaps not.:)

[Jonty]

An undisclosed customer has ordered 4 A330 NEOs.

[LBAflyer22]

An undisclosed customer has ordered 4 A330 NEOs.

There's always undisclosed customers ordering aircraft at Air Shows .... means in reality nothing. Let's be honest if it was Jet2 they would be shouting about it from the roof tops.

[Jonty]

There's always undisclosed customers ordering aircraft at Air Shows .... means in reality nothing. Let's be honest if it was Jet2 they would be shouting about it from the roof tops.
very true

[xanda_man]

On the other side of the spectrum, BX, their only 737 fitted with the scimitars, has only ever been at MAN from what I’ve seen😂

On the day you wrote this it was actually EDI based and still is :)

But you were right, it's been at MAN from day 1 but finally had a swap down route in PMI on 18th.

[chaps1954]

Just a note to say G-SUNC the second A321neo was delivered this afternoon to Manchester minus titles

[ManUtd1999]

Do think there could be a role for the A321XLR at Jet2 in the future?

If (and it's a big if) they want to enter the long-haul market one day, the A321XLR would be a low-risk way to do it. It would have the range to get to Florida and the Carribbean whilst enabling a combined fleet with the Neos and more efficient aircraft utilisation. I'm sure Jet2 could make New York and maybe a few other US cities work from their larger northern bases as well....

[davidjohnson6]

Two weeks ago, many were predicting Jet2 would announce an A330 order at the Paris air show so they could fly to the USA and Carribean
Air Berlin went bust for many reasons (and definitely not just the clusterf*ck that was BER airport)

[LBAflyer22]

Two weeks ago, many were predicting Jet2 would announce an A330 order at the Paris air show so they could fly to the USA and Carribean
Air Berlin went bust for many reasons (and definitely not just the clusterf*ck that was BER airport)

Wasn't Air Berlin trying to be an airline to all and sundry? Didn't quite know where its focus was?

Also you're comparing the British market against the German market? Which comparing Apples and Banana's?

Up to 2016 (as that's what wikapedia has not exactly reliable but hey) out of the 9 years accounts 8 of those Air Berlin made a loss. Jet2 meanwhile continue to be healthy and make a profit.

[pug]

Wasn't Air Berlin trying to be an airline to all and sundry? Didn't quite know where its focus was?

Also you're comparing the British market against the German market? Which comparing Apples and Banana's?

Up to 2016 (as that's what wikapedia has not exactly reliable but hey) out of the 9 years accounts 8 of those Air Berlin made a loss. Jet2 meanwhile continue to be healthy and make a profit.

Agreed, also to add.. If Jet2 ever did decide to purchase any wide body aircraft they would inevitably be for the higher capacity Med routes to get more out of slot constrained airports, rather than some long-haul operation that is not currently in their MO. There are still large areas of the European holiday market where Jet2 Holidays are only scratching the surface. Rumours had been doing the rounds, but also consider that they have a very good working partnership with Air Tanker and seem to be happy with their performance so it’s probably not a priority to acquire any at this moment anyway.

Long-haul may happen at some point, and short of any surprises, it’s probably not going to be in the next few years. I’d be confident that they will not do it unless they are cast iron in their belief that they can do so with strong returns. One thing they are not is directionless so comparisons with Air Berlin are pointless.

[1889LS]

Any idea what’s happened with LS917 today MAN-TFS?
One of the A330s (GM) appears to have been offline today and the TFS rotation actually took place on two 737s (G-DRTW and G-DRTZ) however TZ ended up diverting to FAO with G-JZHS having to fly out from Manchester to complete the flight. Currently on route back to MAN with a delay of several hours.

What makes it stranger is G-DRTZ actually left and positioned back to MAN before HS left FAO down to Tenerife itself.

[SWBKCB]

Meanwhile, the holiday giant revealed that its executive chairman Philip Meeson will be stepping down from the company’s board. Mr Meeson bought the business (https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/business/) in 1983 as a small cargo carrier and grew it into Britain’s largest package holiday provider. He said he remains confident in the outlook of the group, “but I am conscious of my age and the need to plan an orderly succession”. The 75-year-old Yorkshire businessman is set to move to non-executive chairman and remain in the role until a successor is appointed.

Jet2's Philip Meeson will be stepping down as chairman (https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/23637797.jet2s-philip-meeson-stepping-chairman/)

[rog747]

Any idea what’s happened with LS917 today MAN-TFS?
One of the A330s (GM) appears to have been offline today and the TFS rotation actually took place on two 737s (G-DRTW and G-DRTZ) however TZ ended up diverting to FAO with G-JZHS having to fly out from Manchester to complete the flight. Currently on route back to MAN with a delay of several hours.

What makes it stranger is G-DRTZ actually left and positioned back to MAN before HS left FAO down to Tenerife itself.

Ha! the mysterious world of today's airline operations officers/handling and their ''decisions''

I used to do this job for 40 years (often standing on my head, I must say I did it all rather well) but I do lament and often baulk at some of the stories I now read on the EZY, Jet2 and TUI pages.

[rubymurray]

Ha! the mysterious world of today's airline operations officers/handling and their ''decisions''

I used to do this job for 40 years (often standing on my head, I must say I did it all rather well) but I do lament and often baulk at some of the stories I now read on the EZY, Jet2 and TUI pages.


From what I’ve heard, they diverted due to a medical emergency on board, which was, I can imagine, quite traumatic for the cabin crew to deal with. The decision was made to send a new plane and crew down to Faro to take the passengers onwards to their destination whilst the original crew were stood down and positioned back to Manchester. All sounds very sensible to me!

[LBAflyer22]

Agreed, also to add.. If Jet2 ever did decide to purchase any wide body aircraft they would inevitably be for the higher capacity Med routes to get more out of slot constrained airports, rather than some long-haul operation that is not currently in their MO. There are still large areas of the European holiday market where Jet2 Holidays are only scratching the surface. Rumours had been doing the rounds, but also consider that they have a very good working partnership with Air Tanker and seem to be happy with their performance so it’s probably not a priority to acquire any at this moment anyway.

Long-haul may happen at some point, and short of any surprises, it’s probably not going to be in the next few years. I’d be confident that they will not do it unless they are cast iron in their belief that they can do so with strong returns. One thing they are not is directionless so comparisons with Air Berlin are pointless.


I don't think it would be. It would definitely be for the long haul operation which, if they launch, they'll have no problem filling. Travel agents will love it. And it'll give TUI competition. I'm with you it won't be for a few years yet.

Air Berlin were just all over place. Fly Globespan are another example of directionless and again another airline of trying long haul whilst not having the airline/business in perfect order and ready to take on the stress and strain of long haul. Which inevitably will happen.

[Asturias56]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jet2-hits-turbulence-after-boss-leaves-cockpit-rrffpcc0jJet2 hits turbulence after boss leaves cockpitPhilip Meeson steps aside from UK’s largest package holiday provider

https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/1019966/jet2-results-please-but-shares-hit-on-chairman-departure-1019966.htmlJet2 results please but shares hit on chairman departurePublished: 11:39 06 Jul 2023

Sentiment was skewed at Jet2, as strong full-year results were overcast by news that the airline's chairman would retire

https://cdn.proactiveinvestors.com/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwYS1jZG4iLCJrZXkiOiJ1cGxvYWRcL05ld3NcL0ltYWdl XC8yMDIzXzA3XC9zaHV0dGVyc3RvY2stMTQ5MTI1MTcwMi5qcGciLCJlZGl0 cyI6eyJyZXNpemUiOnsid2lkdGgiOjY3MiwiaGVpZ2h0IjozMzEsImZpdCI6 ImNvdmVyIn19fQ==Jet2 PLC (AIM:JET2) (https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/LON:JET2/Jet2-PLC/)’s return to profitability was largely expected as the sector enjoys a post-pandemic bounce-back, but news that the airline’s chairman would depart saw sentiment skewed.

Shares fell over 11.5% on Thursday morning as long-serving executive chairman Philip Meeson announced he would be retiring from the company after 40 years.

The fall came despite the airline reporting (https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/1019933/jet2-returns-to-profit-as-brits-continue-spending-on-holidays-1019933.html) an operating profit of £394mln in the year to March 2023, up on a £324mln loss in 2022.

Barclays brokers tipped the slip-up was to be expected following the news of Meeson leaving since he has been with the airline since buying it in 1983.

AJ Bell analyst Russ Mould commented a share price hit was “one way to measure the respect for a leader of a company” meanwhile.

Despite pointing to resilience in package holidays and Meeson’s own confidence on the outlook of the group, Jet2 opted not offer any specific guidance on next years’ trading, instead saying it was “cognisant of how quickly the macro-economic environment is evolving”.

Barclays reassured the lack of a forecast was unlikely to prompt any consensus changes though, with the bank anticipating Jet2 to score pre-tax profit of £452mln in 2024.

The fate of Meeson’s majority stake in Jet2 marks the real question though, according to Mould, who suggested he would want to “crystallise” on the company’s long-term share price gain.

“Meeson was seen as the captain of the company’s success,” Mould added, “building up a greatly admired British business and showing that it was possible to disrupt the airline industry”.

[ATNotts]

That investors reacted by selling off shares in Jet2 at the shock (not) news that Meeson, age 75, should retire just shows the disconnect between 'the markets' and reality.

What is worrying is of course that another successful Yorkshire business could follow Morrisons down the pan on the back of cost cutting and assett stripping should the business fall into the claws of venture capitalists in the wake of Meeson's departure.

[pug]

That investors reacted by selling off shares in Jet2 at the shock (not) news that Meeson, age 75, should retire just shows the disconnect between 'the markets' and reality.

What is worrying is of course that another successful Yorkshire business could follow Morrisons down the pan on the back of cost cutting and assett stripping should the business fall into the claws of venture capitalists in the wake of Meeson's departure.

Hoping that he is involved in some way (if he can be?) in appointing a successor. The business has grown to the success it is largely on the back of his own passion and determination, whilst maintaining grounded footing with a continued nod to the past. I do hope that with his departure that same ethos is not lost - and whoever takes his place continues to challenge not only the industry but the company’s own staff and decision makers.

[WHBM]

That investors reacted by selling off shares in Jet2 at the shock (not) news that Meeson, age 75, should retire just shows the disconnect between 'the markets' and reality.
It's not quite like that. The share price is determined by the traders saying what they might buy, or sell, the shares at. In actual fact not a single share may have been traded at the previous or the new price, as it goes up and down. There are only a finite number of shares, if you want to buy one then someone has to be selling one. It's like looking up typical used car "prices" in the book, doesn't mean any have actually been sold at that price. Look for "volume" against a share price to find how many were actually sold on a given day.

[davidjohnson6]

The share price reflects the future expectations not the past. It indicates that investors are worried without Philip Meeson, they think Jet2 will not do as well. This is a clear case of key-person dependency - consider what would happen to the Ryanair share price if O'Leary suddenly announced he wanted to retire - do you think Ryanair would have the same profit-driven focus without him ?
If anything, Jet2 should have provided better info to investors on how succession planning would work over a longer timeframe

[ATNotts]

I absolutely get the 'future performance' aspect, but surely the city gamblers understand that Meeson has a team around him, including from a Jet2 perspective the likes of Steve Heapy. They aren't a one trick pony and in the same way neither is O'Leary at Ryanair or the CEO of Tesco.

The future performance issue that should be worrying shareholders in any business selling expensive products to the UK public at present is the mushrooming cost of living crisis, sooner or later the customer's credit cards will be maxed out and foreign holidays and weekend breaks could become unaffordable for many.

[LBAflyer22]

I absolutely get the 'future performance' aspect, but surely the city gamblers understand that Meeson has a team around him, including from a Jet2 perspective the likes of Steve Heapy. They aren't a one trick pony and in the same way neither is O'Leary at Ryanair or the CEO of Tesco.

The future performance issue that should be worrying shareholders in any business selling expensive products to the UK public at present is the mushrooming cost of living crisis, sooner or later the customer's credit cards will be maxed out and foreign holidays and weekend breaks could become unaffordable for many.

What's to say people pay on credit cards?

[stewyb]

I absolutely get the 'future performance' aspect, but surely the city gamblers understand that Meeson has a team around him, including from a Jet2 perspective the likes of Steve Heapy. They aren't a one trick pony and in the same way neither is O'Leary at Ryanair or the CEO of Tesco.

The future performance issue that should be worrying shareholders in any business selling expensive products to the UK public at present is the mushrooming cost of living crisis, sooner or later the customer's credit cards will be maxed out and foreign holidays and weekend breaks could become unaffordable for many.

Strong balance sheet and robust business model, they will be just fine and the share price will quickly stabilise. Also never underestimate the desire of the U.K. public to afford a foreign holiday as they always seem to find the means!

[ATNotts]

What's to say people pay on credit cards?
I meant metaphorical credit cards! Savings, cards, or worst personal loans. Whatever with mortgages, rents and the affordability of unsecured credit all becoming more expensive something will have to give. It has happened before in the late1970s and early eighties and it certainly did affect package holidays.

If I were running a business that was heavily dependent on discretionary spending (a holiday not being an essential) I would be cautious until we see this all pans out.

[Flying Hi]

I meant metaphorical credit cards! Savings, cards, or worst personal loans. Whatever with mortgages, rents and the affordability of unsecured credit all becoming more expensive something will have to give. It has happened before in the late1970s and early eighties and it certainly did affect package holidays.

If I were running a business that was heavily dependent on discretionary spending (a holiday not being an essential) I would be cautious until we see this all pans out.

Crefit card is the way to go. Buy on CC and pay it off IN FULL on next Statement. That way you get protection of the Credit Csrd Act 2009 if things go wrong.
I've been grsteful to that piece of legislation twice -
Once when Monarch went belly up just prior to our holiday in a Fuerteventura
Then at the start of the pandemic where we had paid our hotel jn Bodum, Turkey directly for 'extras' not included in Jet2s price. Hotel then shut of course so we were able to claim these costs off our CC.

[ATNotts]

Flying Hi,

Agree with you 100%, most especially paying it off IN FULL. I have never had to use 'charge back' but its excellent insurance against unpleasant financial surprises.

In the real world however many are simply unable to do so, just increasing their unsecured debt burden.

[LGS6753]

I absolutely get the 'future performance' aspect, but surely the city gamblers understand that Meeson has a team around him, including from a Jet2 perspective the likes of Steve Heapy. They aren't a one trick pony and in the same way neither is O'Leary at Ryanair or the CEO of Tesco.

The future performance issue that should be worrying shareholders in any business selling expensive products to the UK public at present is the mushrooming cost of living crisis, sooner or later the customer's credit cards will be maxed out and foreign holidays and weekend breaks could become unaffordable for many.

I can assure you that institutional investors are not "city gamblers". There are reams of research on the largest quoted companies, and a great deal of detailed analysis is behind the decisions made by professional investors.
Something often missed by outsiders is the influence the man at the top can exercise. It is he (or she) who will determine the culture of the organisation, its priorities, and ultimately its success or failure. A competent deputy is not always a good leader, and often a new appointee will want to make his mark - usually by changing something. Traders are right to be nervous about the departure after a long period of a successful principal.
I have the greatest respect for Jet2, and hope it continues to prosper under its new leadership

[Flying Wild]

I think you'll find that Steve Heapy has been leading the company from an operational perspective for some time. Philip did exert some influence on the company in terms of its guiding values, however I feel that the company as a whole has bought into these and engender them from day to day. It will be interesting to see what Philips replacement will look like. Hopefully they'll come in, observe and then make changes, rather than storming in with massive change from the outset. It would be foolish (in my opinion) to drastically alter what is a successful operation. The Executive leadership need to be looking to the medium/long term future and how that looks, rather than messing around with the present and short-term.

[LGS6753]

I think you'll find that Steve Heapy has been leading the company from an operational perspective for some time. Philip did exert some influence on the company in terms of its guiding values, however I feel that the company as a whole has bought into these and engender them from day to day. It will be interesting to see what Philips replacement will look like. Hopefully they'll come in, observe and then make changes, rather than storming in with massive change from the outset. It would be foolish (in my opinion) to drastically alter what is a successful operation. The Executive leadership need to be looking to the medium/long term future and how that looks, rather than messing around with the present and short-term.
Hear, hear!

[1889LS]

Third neo G-SUND on delivery flight to EMA currently.

G-SUNE and F are now on the production line

[Kevgti]

G-SUND was delivered to EMA from XFW this afternoon.

[laviation]

That was quick.. thought it would take at least another month or two ! Hopefully the deliveries can start picking up now

[P330]

And SUNC appears to be actively flying following its recent delivery, but not in its full paint scheme.

[Kevgti]

And SUNC appears to be actively flying following its recent delivery, but not in its full paint scheme.
I think the same happened when some of the new build 738s were delivered in the busy season.

[Flying Hi]

I think the same happened when some of the new build 738s were delivered in the busy season.
Looks good in all white plus blue tail..
Just minus tail Sunrise and Jet2 logos. Still unmistakably Jet2

[jethro15]

And SUNC appears to be actively flying following its recent delivery, but not in its full paint scheme.

This is the one delivered direct to Manchester 27 Jun and then entered service 05 Jul

Maybe no time slot at EMA (Or elsewhere) for the application of decals. Whatever, I'm sure, being a brand new a/c, Jet2 will want this done as soon as operational constraints allow.

Others in a more prominent position may be able to advise?

[chaps1954]

As soon as an airframe is allocated a test registration you can check the flights on FR24 and then it will be about 10 days before delivery

[G-AZUK]

This is the one delivered direct to Manchester 27 Jun and then entered service 05 Jul

Maybe no time slot at EMA (Or elsewhere) for the application of decals. Whatever, I'm sure, being a brand new a/c, Jet2 will want this done as soon as operational constraints allow.

Others in a more prominent position may be able to advise?

its only got the "Package Holidays you can trust banner" right now, almost certainly due to time constraints and needing to get it on the line.
They've put it in the right place this time, on SUNB they moved the banner shortly after it was delivered, as it was too far back and looked odd!

[chaps1954]

G-SUNB was done at EMA G-SUNC at Manchester and G-SUND is being done at EMA

[Gunfighter52]

G-JZDA was delivered from Teesside to LBA earlier today.

[N707ZS]

It did look nice when it was finished.

[jethro15]

G-JZDA was delivered from Teesside to LBA earlier today.
Delivered should have meant positioned

[Flying Hi]

G-SUND due out on inaugural flight LS169 MAN - IBZ at 06.35 (scheduled) tomorrow 23/7.

[chaps1954]

Confirmed it is on the way to IBZ and just entering Spanish airspace

[VickersVicount]

with the launch of more Twilight Check-Ins at other UK airports, am I missing the attraction? So you need to travel to the airport for a second trip (finding and paying for parking) then lug over luggage and then go home again only to repeat it at eg 6am the next morning in order to avoid a check in queue? Suppose might be beneficial if you were overnighting in an onsite airport hotel.

[Alteagod]

I was thinking the same. I can understand resort checkin but this I don't get

[Flying Hi]

Maybe its something to do with giving the Jet2 groundstaff something to do after the second 'wave' of flights has departed?
I wonder what the take up of the opportunity is?
Maybe its handy if you are one of the 06.00 departure flights - drop bags pm previous day, check in on airport hotel for the night etc. Makes the early morning tussle a bit easier?

[Apron Artist]

Maybe its something to do with giving the Jet2 groundstaff something to do after the second 'wave' of flights has departed?
I wonder what the take up of the opportunity is?
Maybe its handy if you are one of the 06.00 departure flights - drop bags pm previous day, check in on airport hotel for the night etc. Makes the early morning tussle a bit easier?

Cetainly, at Gatwick that is the case,. We (when I was there) would expect to receive about 300 twighlight bags and the majority of these passengers were staying in the hotels on site.

[Bam Thwok]

Suppose might be beneficial if you were overnighting in an onsite airport hotel.

Exactly that.

[caaardiff]

with the launch of more Twilight Check-Ins at other UK airports, am I missing the attraction? So you need to travel to the airport for a second trip (finding and paying for parking) then lug over luggage and then go home again only to repeat it at eg 6am the next morning in order to avoid a check in queue? Suppose might be beneficial if you were overnighting in an onsite airport hotel.

Not everyone lives just down the road from the Airport they are flying from so a lot will stay in a hotel the night before, usually on site.
The benefits are more for the Airports and ground handlers. It means less people queueing to check bags in, less bags having to be processed through security x-rays and along congested baggage belts, less rush for the baggage sorters to deal with.
For passengers it can mean not needing to get up so early and avoiding check-in queues. It also means less queuing time for the people that are dropping bags off in the morning.

If as a random figure, 15 passengers + 15 bags per flight do twilight check-in, with say 8 early flights going that's 120 less people to deal with.

[LBAflyer22]

Take LBA as the example. 4 737-300 departures today and 9 737-800 first thing. That's a total of 2293 passengers so let's assume 2293 bags. If they can capture only 10% of those passengers is 230 bags and 230 passengers less to process at check in first thing. A simple increase to 12% and suddenly 275 bags and 275 less passengers.

Jet2 will have the data on hand to know what flights this works on and what flights it doesn't. For example I would imagine they get a greater % using twilight check in for the earlier morning flights (before 7) than those who are flying at 830/9am.

[Apron Artist]

Take LBA as the example. 4 737-300 departures today and 9 737-800 first thing. That's a total of 2293 passengers so let's assume 2293 bags. If they can capture only 10% of those passengers is 230 bags and 230 passengers less to process at check in first thing. A simple increase to 12% and suddenly 275 bags and 275 less passengers.

Jet2 will have the data on hand to know what flights this works on and what flights it doesn't. For example I would imagine they get a greater % using twilight check in for the earlier morning flights (before 7) than those who are flying at 830/9am.

This is true at LGW - mainly flights before 07:30. We'd get a few for later flights but not many, which was just as well as you'd end up with bags for 2 seaparate flights coming down the same baggage chutes. Not ideal. easyJet at Gatwick only allow twighlight bags for departures the following day up until 08:30.

[pabely]

Jet2 cancelled all holidays to Rhodes now up to and including next Sunday. Still running flights to pickup sheduled returns and anyone wishing to abandon holiday due to some hotels being closed and no accommodation anywhere else.

[ATNotts]

Jet2 cancelled all holidays to Rhodes now up to and including next Sunday. Still running flights to pickup sheduled returns and anyone wishing to abandon holiday due to some hotels being closed and no accommodation anywhere else.
I read that in the media this morning and it set me thinking.

Assuming at least some of the UK/RHO services are scheduled, in that they are very likely to have passengers booked for flights only, are they really positioning aircraft out and effectively cancelling flight only passengers, or is the reality that just ITs are cancelled?

Easyjet Holidays has cancelled ITs but media reports that the scheduled flights continue to carry non IT passengers.

[pabely]

I read that in the media this morning and it set me thinking.

Assuming at least some of the UK/RHO services are scheduled, in that they are very likely to have passengers booked for flights only, are they really positioning aircraft out and effectively cancelling flight only passengers, or is the reality that just ITs are cancelled?

Easyjet Holidays has cancelled ITs but media reports that the scheduled flights continue to carry non IT passengers.
Jet2 announcement say "flight & holiday programme" so if you are booked on a seat only you might be disappointed.

[ATNotts]

Jet2 announcement say "flight & holiday programme" so if you are booked on a seat only you might be disappointed.
Fortunately not!

Not flying ticketed passengers for whom, aside delivering safely to the destination airport, they take no legal responsibility for, seems a bit like a self inflicted wound. Unless of course the Greek government has instructed airlines not to carry passengers to Rhodes.

Some of the booked passengers could be Greeks or others returning home, and would be pretty miffed to be left stranded in UK by Jet2.

[pabely]

https://www.jet2.com/en/latest-travel-information
That reads to me like zero pax outbound regardless.

[ATNotts]

https://www.jet2.com/en/latest-travel-information
That reads to me like zero pax outbound regardless.
Indeed it does. I must say if I were a normal passenger (not on a package) I would now have to think twice before booking with Jet2 who appear to have evolved from a 'proper airline' into a vehicle to carry IT passengers for the in-house tour operator, pretty much as TUI are.

[pabely]

I noted that pretty much all of TUIs programmes across Europe are arriving with flight codes ending in P which are classed as positioning flights only.
Perhaps the Greeks have enforced this as reports of people sleeping on sunloungers as no rooms available. Remember the local population will be displaced as well.
I would be worried if RYR pax, they are only obliged to get you from A to B, not their problem if you have booked accommodation via third party.

[ATNotts]

I noted that pretty much all of TUIs programmes across Europe are arriving with flight codes ending in P which are classed as positioning flights only.
Perhaps the Greeks have enforced this as reports of people sleeping on sunloungers as no rooms available. Remember the local population will be displaced as well.
I would be worried if RYR pax, they are only obliged to get you from A to B, not their problem if you have booked accommodation via third party.
Seen an interview with the Greek tourism minister who sounded irritated since most of Rhodes isn't on fire, so I would doubt that the cancellations are driven by Athens.

[SWBKCB]

Damned if they do, damned if they don't...

[WHBM]

One wonders the full reason. Jet2 flights are reported as both arriving and departing at Rhodes pretty normally from the normal range of UK points. Possibly that message is meant to be addressed to package holiday clients and not those seat-only.

[pabely]

Independent reporting all Jet2 & TUI flights leaving UK empty. With winds forecast to get stronger tomorrow and the current fires still out of control, I think it is a good move.
Usual headlines "I thought I was going to die. It was like he'll on earth" "The end of the world"

[ATNotts]

Damned if they do, damned if they don't...
In my view there are two very different types of passenger. First the package customer for whom the tour operator is responsible for everything, probably including the wiping of bottoms, from the second the flight leaves UK to when it lands back. Cancel those bookings, the corporate risk is too great. Then there are Janet and John who live on Rhodes and have come to UK for whatever reason using Jet2 the airpine. Why Cancel their booking? The aircraft is flying, crew being paid, and the airline's liability doesn't extend beyond Rhodes Airport. What is the problem with honouring that booking?

[pabely]

In my view there are two very different types of passenger. First the package customer for whom the tour operator is responsible for everything, probably including the wiping of bottoms, from the second the flight leaves UK to when it lands back. Cancel those bookings, the corporate risk is too great. Then there are Janet and John who live on Rhodes and have come to UK for whatever reason using Jet2 the airpine. Why Cancel their booking? The aircraft is flying, crew being paid, and the airline's liability doesn't extend beyond Rhodes Airport. What is the problem with honouring that booking?
Perhaps to the checkin staff they cannot see the difference, they do not want to risk taking people on holidays which they cannot give or to stop people at checkin who maybe denied but just seen Jack and Jill who they have been talking to in the queue, have their boarding accepted.
I have had experience on a TUI flight, booked our holiday as soon as it was available, allocated seats ASAP, checked in on-line did checked luggage all great.
Once on plane someone in our seats, she showed us her ticket, it had our seat numbers. Once the chief flight attendant called, pax made the mistake saying she had booked flight only via third party.
Instantly became third class citizen and told to move and to take it up with whom had made the booking. Moral, be wary of booking seat only on a holiday airline company. Don't know if she would have been treated differently if booked seat only through TUI, probably only second class!

[UnderASouthernSky]

Who actually knows if Jet2 offers seat only to Rhodes? A lot of this chatter could be academic.