Jet2-6

[garry8g]

One must be (G-JZBY) ex VPCGF (CFTOH) currently at Prague
?

It’s already accounted for, there are 2 more due.

[1889LS]

With SUNG’s delivery looking more likely to be next week now (closely followed by NH), NE has gone into EMA tonight instead to have its livery completed first.

With regards to the other two 738s due, Pegasus do have 3 more frames currently stored, so potentially there.

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

Word on the street is that Jet2 have agreed to defer a big chunk of NEO's should Airbus need slots to give to United, a few bases to remain NG only for a year or two longer than anticipated. Expect them to keep adding in old 738's. Of course United might persist with the Max's and it might revert to plan A...........

[bobradamus]

G-GDFS gone tech? in Funchal, G-JZBK sent out from Stansted for return to Manchester - any details on what’s wrong?

[P330]

Whatever the case, it’s back in Manchester now.

Presumably something similar happened with TH that didn’t return from Grenoble yesterday and is still stuck there; rescued by Leeds’ DB.

Plenty of slack in the system at this time of year.

[1889LS]

G-GDFS gone tech? in Funchal, G-JZBK sent out from Stansted for return to Manchester - any details on what’s wrong?
left hand thrust reverser gone tech, was an acceptable deferred defect as not needed to land in MAN, however the engineers in Funchal had difficulty pinning the system in place to disable it before departure. Passengers got a complementary extra night abroad.

[Flying Hi]

left hand thrust reverser gone tech, was an acceptable deferred defect as not needed to land in MAN, however the engineers in Funchal had difficulty pinning the system in place to disable it before departure. Passengers got a complementary extra night abroad.
Thanks for the insight. Much appreciated
G-DRTH made it back eventually and is scheduled to Malaga first thing Monday morning

[SWBKCB]

Passengers got a complementary extra night abroad.

Whether they wanted it or not... :ok:​​​​​​​

[AircraftOperations]

Whether they wanted it or not... :ok:

Hopefully it was complimentary, too.

[bobradamus]

left hand thrust reverser gone tech, was an acceptable deferred defect as not needed to land in MAN, however the engineers in Funchal had difficulty pinning the system in place to disable it before departure. Passengers got a complementary extra night abroad.

Thanks!!

[LiamNCL]

G-JZBC first of the 738's to be retrofitted with SSW.

[Budfrey27]

G-JZBC first of the 738's to be retrofitted with SSW.

Confirmed already fitted flying BHX-MLA today 👍

[sparkie320]

A320/A321s will get the silver and red livery but not until 2026. The G-SUN… series registrations will all be in holidays scheme.

737s are still getting painted in a mix of the two liveries without any pattern being taken from the reg series.

The A320 neo it seems wont arrive till 2028
the next batch of A321 after G-SUN i guess will gain the Red/ Silver livery

[redED]

The A320 neo it seems wont arrive till 2028
the next batch of A321 after G-SUN i guess will gain the Red/ Silver livery

The A320 plan always was “deliveries will stretch over three years until 2031”.

[OltonPete]

G-JZBC first of the 738's to be retrofitted with SSW.

Was this done at BHX as it didn't fly from 11 Feb until an air-test on 17/2?

If so was this done in STS as FY & HF were supposed to have been in the hangar last week

Pete

[LiamNCL]

Was this done at BHX as it didn't fly from 11 Feb until an air-test on 17/2?

If so was this done in STS as FY & HF were supposed to have been in the hangar last week

Pete
It was done at BHX yes believe by STS.

G-JZBE is the next to be fitted with them now on the ground since Saturday.

[OltonPete]

It was done at BHX yes believe by STS.

G-JZBE is the next to be fitted with them now on the ground since Saturday.

Cheers LiamNCL.

Doing okay for charters as well out of BHX, Malaga last night (Sport related?) and Bergen tomorrow (Northern Lights?)

Pete

[Mayfield62]

They operated a return Gatwick to Liverpool Charter on Monday carrying Crystal Palace FC for the match against Everton.

[1889LS]

G-SUNB operating TFS - BHX LS2166 diverted to Faro, reported by some sources due to “smell of burning in the flight deck”.
G-LSAK going out to faro to complete the journey.

[1889LS]

G-SUNB returning back to Birmingham now, evidently not a major issue.

[Jonty]

G-SUNB operating TFS - BHX LS2166 diverted to Faro, reported by some sources due to “smell of burning in the flight deck”.
G-LSAK going out to faro to complete the journey.
someone spill their coffee?

[L66MBD]

Anyone in the know privy to the plan to sort the delayed LS584 today? Told a technical issue and a replacement aircraft being sent, any other info? Cheers

[P330]

FR24 still showing the original aircraft coming home, albeit 2-3 hours late.

[ImagineIf]

They have engineering in ALC so they will try resolve but that will have a time limit on it due crew hours so I would imagine an airport standby crew and aircraft will be cued up ready also.

F24 will just be showing the original tail and flight number with a delay until a final plan is green lit and everything updated.

Look out for a 737 firing out of one of their bases with a non standard flight number that will most likely be your thunderbird 1.

[ImagineIf]

Looks like BA got sorted so you or your fam/friends are on the way to NCL. 👏

[L66MBD]

Thanks for reply’s. Confusing to be told a 7pm delayed departure then a terminal call to say boarding was to quickly begin

[TheLambtonWorm]

Credit where its due. My flight from AGP-NCL on 22/02/24 was delayed over 3 hours and they've already paid my UK261 compensation. :ok::D:)

[wowzz]

Credit where its due. My flight from AGP-NCL on 22/02/24 was delayed over 3 hours and they've already paid my UK261 compensation. :ok::D:)
Just shows why Jet2 have such a good reputation. In the future you are far more likely to remember the speed of the payment, and forget about the delay !

[garry8g]

G-DRTV first revenue flight this morning, LS875 Manchester to Faro.

G-JZDD on route to East Midlands for painting.

[Flying Hi]

G-DRTV first revenue flight this morning, LS875 Manchester to Faro.

G-JZDD on route to East Midlands for painting.
JZDD clearly going the long way round. Currently (11.15) over north Scotland. Air Test too?

[garry8g]

Anyone know when the last 2 2nd hand B737-800 are due to join the fleet? And where they have been acquired from?

And any news on G-JZBY? (It's been sitting at Prague since 30th August 23)

[P330]

G-DRTX doing what I believe is its first revenue flight today. MAN-FAO, just like DRTV a week ago.

[P330]

Anyone know when the last 2 2nd hand B737-800 are due to join the fleet? And where they have been acquired from?

And any news on G-JZBY? (It's been sitting at Prague since 30th August 23)

From what I understand, there are 4 acquired 738s still to enter service. They are: DD/DE/DF/BZ.

I think two more have been acquired, but details not yet public.

BY still in Prague - some rumours circulating that this may not materialise.

[bobradamus]

We’re being treated to G-LSAC on the way back from Fuerteventura to Manchester operating LS910 today. The booked 738 looked like it was swapped to another flight with G-DRTR positioning down to LGW to operate TFS flight. Guessing another 738 went tech…or I might be drawing false conclusions 😂

Anyway, I’m happy with a 757 however it came about! My favourite! 😍

[Airbanda]

We’re being treated to G-LSAC on the way back from Fuerteventura to Manchester operating LS910 today. The booked 738 looked like it was swapped to another flight with G-DRTR positioning down to LGW to operate TFS flight. Guessing another 738 went tech…or I might be drawing false conclusions 😂

Anyway, I’m happy with a 757 however it came about! My favourite! 😍

Are the LGW ops on behalf of a tour company?

[Wycombe]

Are the LGW ops on behalf of a tour company?
P&O Cruises I suspect? Probably the same series I flew with them this time last year LGW-TFS to join their ship Azura in the Canaries.

I've also flown BHX-MLA with Jet2 for P&O. Good experience both times.

[vectisman]

Jet2 have had a winter seasonal base at Gatwick for about three years now, At peak times three or four aircraft can be present (especially at weekends) but usually at least two.
The airline operates cruise charters, ski charter flights and Christmas flights to Lapland. These flights are for mostly for operators other than Jet2.
The programme usually ends at the end of March/early April and resumes again late October/early November.

[Flying Wild]

Jet2 have had a winter seasonal base at Gatwick for about three years now... These flights are for mostly for operators other than Jet2.

They are all on behalf of charter companies. No Jet2/Jet2 Holidays flights depart from LGW.

[Airbanda]

I know they've no operation of their at LGW although there has been speculation as to whether they might in future. As things look there now with slot constraints and delays I'd have though they need it like a hole in the head!!

It was TFS flights yesterday that caught my attention, as above probably associated with cruises.

[pug]

I know they've no operation of their at LGW although there has been speculation as to whether they might in future. As things look there now with slot constraints and delays I'd have though they need it like a hole in the head!!

It was TFS flights yesterday that caught my attention, as above probably associated with cruises.

Probably would like to go in to there, but would most likely be wanting plenty of room to expand. Expect that to be an issue at the moment. Might make a south coast base more appealing, but that’s just my own opinion.

[vectisman]

They are all on behalf of charter companies. No Jet2/Jet2 Holidays flights depart from LGW.
Yes I thought it was all for other operators but said most just in case. Thank goodness for pendants.

[vectisman]

It would now be difficult for Jet2 to have a sizeable base at Gatwick. Slots are in high demand especially as they become even rarer at Heathrow. Perhaps when the Northern Runway comes into routine use (If approved) a base may be possible towards
the end of the decade. Only other possibility would be an airline selling slots or moving out. Neither possibility seems obvious at the moment.

[Kevgti]

From what I understand, there are 4 acquired 738s still to enter service. They are: DD/DE/DF/BZ.

I think two more have been acquired, but details not yet public.

BY still in Prague - some rumours circulating that this may not materialise.

Must be a reason why BY hasn't entered the fleet yet despite being registered for ages.

[P330]

I'm hearing HM hit a bird on departure from LBA this morning bound for Arrecife.

Climbed to 5,000ft and then circled around LBA for 30 minutes before heading to Manchester for a landing where it was met by emergency crews.

[Marc Brady]

Must be a reason why BY hasn't entered the fleet yet despite being registered for ages.

G-JZBY never was registered. Its due to Jet2 but they’ve yet to register it.

[Kevgti]

From what I understand, there are 4 acquired 738s still to enter service. They are: DD/DE/DF/BZ.

I think two more have been acquired, but details not yet public.

BY still in Prague - some rumours circulating that this may not materialise.
G-JZDG (previously TC-CRA from Pegasus arrived in LBA yesterday (18/03/24) ) one more left to make itself known.

[cornishsimon]

EXS069J
9A-LAB

due to position to NQY tomorrow from FRL

presumably to the sts hangar at nqy

cs

[P330]

EXS069J
9A-LAB

due to position to NQY tomorrow from FRL

presumably to the sts hangar at nqy

cs

Is this a new addition or a summer lease?

[jethro15]

Is this a new addition or a summer lease?
Summer lease. To be joined by 9A-KOR MAN based.

[P330]

Thanks Jethro.

Meanwhile, JZDD entered revenue service today running a Leeds to Faro return.

[eggc]

Thanks Jethro.

Meanwhile, JZDD entered revenue service today running a Leeds to Faro return.

...and G-SUNH just been delivered to MAN within the last hour.

[cornishsimon]

9A-ABC also arrived @ Nqy today as LS070J


cs

[1889LS]

G-JZHT, HU, BC, BE, BF, BG, BH and BH now all have the scimitar winglets installed.

Surprised to see the ex Pegasus frames have not had them fitted during entry into service. These are quite young in age so will be in the fleet for a good while, would have thought they’d have preferred to kill 2 birds with one stone so to speak.

[Mayfield62]

G-JZHP arrived on base at Liverpool today, ready to commence operations on 28th March. The second aircraft is due tomorrow, followed by the third aircraft on 27th.

[ImagineIf]

G-JZBP arrived on base at Liverpool today, ready to commence operations on 28th March. The second aircraft is due tomorrow, followed by the third aircraft on 27th.

HP...

BP is currently stuck in ACE due FNC weather shenanigans.

[Kevgti]

G-JZHT, HU, BC, BE, BF, BG, BH and BH now all have the scimitar winglets installed.

Surprised to see the ex Pegasus frames have not had them fitted during entry into service. These are quite young in age so will be in the fleet for a good while, would have thought they’d have preferred to kill 2 birds with one stone so to speak.
Does the ownership status - owned Vs leased have an impact on SSW installation?

[irishlad06]

New Base number 12 to be announced today
2 aircraft to start with.

[GrahamK]

New Base number 12 to be announced today
2 aircraft to start with.
Congrats to Bournemouth!

[Travel Agent]

List of destinations shwoing on Jet2holidays website with flights starting in April 2025:IBZ

PMI

MAH

FUE

LPA

ACE

TFS

CFU

HER

RHO

ZTH

FAO

FNC

ALC

AYT

DLM

[1889LS]

Unusual seeing Jet2 starting with a 2 aircraft base. They like to start with a bigger presence usually to state their dominance and allow them to do everything (handling etc) in house and be cost effective.

Selfishly though, this does give a little bit of hope that Doncaster may get a look in with Jet2 when it reopens. It would have been difficult to justify opening a large base there with the size of the operations at MAN, EMA, and, to a lesser extent, LBA taking out of the area customer pool. But with Jet2 seemingly happy to start a bit smaller and grow organically that now makes DSA a possibility.

[HH6702]

I’m wondering if before DSA we may see

Southend
Norwich

can’t see them getting enough slots at Gatwick/LTN so maybe Southend to take some of the south east away from Gatwick?

[LW940]

I’m wondering if before DSA we may see

Southend
Norwich

can’t see them getting enough slots at Gatwick/LTN so maybe Southend to take some of the south east away from Gatwick?

Maybe CWL too when they’re established at BRS

[Markushillman]

I’m wondering if before DSA we may see

Southend
Norwich

can’t see them getting enough slots at Gatwick/LTN so maybe Southend to take some of the south east away from Gatwick?

They have said if Bournemouth is successful they would look to smaller airports. Southend possibly a bit to close to Stansted but still you never know.

Norwich is an interesting shout with their new relationship with RCA/Rigby group (who have managed to get Ryanair into Exeter and Norwich following Bournemouth). TUI have had a summer base for over 10 years now at NWI so clearly enough demand, however realistically a 1 aircraft base is the maximum NWI could support. Probably too small for Jet2 and may feel it could dilute the Stansted base, however doesn't seem to bother TUI, or Ryanair, so stranger things could happen, I mean I said Ryanair would never set foot in Norwich yet here we are.

Now for me I wonder a more realistic option could be Exeter? certainly seems plausible to me.

[azz767]

They have said if Bournemouth is successful they would look to smaller airports. Southend possibly a bit to close to Stansted but still you never know.

Norwich is an interesting shout with their new relationship with RCA/Rigby group (who have managed to get Ryanair into Exeter and Norwich following Bournemouth). TUI have had a summer base for over 10 years now at NWI so clearly enough demand, however realistically a 1 aircraft base is the maximum NWI could support. Probably too small for Jet2 and may feel it could dilute the Stansted base, however doesn't seem to bother TUI, or Ryanair, so stranger things could happen, I mean I said Ryanair would never set foot in Norwich yet here we are.

Now for me I wonder a more realistic option could be Exeter? certainly seems plausible to me.

Surely now with the fleet size small one a/c ‘bases’ if you wanted to call them that could be done on W patterns to avoid the self handling and maintenance problem. Norwich, Exeter/Newquay, Cardiff, Southend amongst others could all have a daily or couple of daily flights done on W patterns from the likes of MAN, LBA, BHX or STN. They always have a couple of spare aircraft across the fleet so couldn’t that be feasible for the smaller airports?

[Markushillman]

Surely now with the fleet size small one a/c ‘bases’ if you wanted to call them that could be done on W patterns to avoid the self handling and maintenance problem. Norwich, Exeter/Newquay, Cardiff, Southend amongst others could all have a daily or couple of daily flights done on W patterns from the likes of MAN, LBA, BHX or STN. They always have a couple of spare aircraft across the fleet so couldn’t that be feasible for the smaller airports?

That certainly could be a good option yes. If they are willing to do W patterns, then they will have a lot of success. Something quite telling is Norwich airport advertisement posts on Facebook for TUI with so many comments below asking for Jet2 :E

[pug]

They have said if Bournemouth is successful they would look to smaller airports. Southend possibly a bit to close to Stansted but still you never know.

Norwich is an interesting shout with their new relationship with RCA/Rigby group (who have managed to get Ryanair into Exeter and Norwich following Bournemouth). TUI have had a summer base for over 10 years now at NWI so clearly enough demand, however realistically a 1 aircraft base is the maximum NWI could support. Probably too small for Jet2 and may feel it could dilute the Stansted base, however doesn't seem to bother TUI, or Ryanair, so stranger things could happen, I mean I said Ryanair would never set foot in Norwich yet here we are.

Now for me I wonder a more realistic option could be Exeter? certainly seems plausible to me.

Sorry to be a party pooper, but they haven’t said that at all.

https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/jet2-boss-rules-out-gatwick-launch-and-says-no-more-new-bases-after-bournemouth-45518

Would suggest that they have the U.K covered now, and growth will be focussed on the incumbents.

[Markushillman]

Sorry to be a party pooper, but they haven’t said that at all.

https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/jet2-boss-rules-out-gatwick-launch-and-says-no-more-new-bases-after-bournemouth-45518

Would suggest that they have the U.K covered now, and growth will be focussed on the incumbents.

Well I stand corrected. I must have got rather wrong from the article I read, my apologies. Thank you for posting that. Well there we have it from the horses mouth so too speak. Bournemouth to be the last base, a shame but from a business stand point very sensible.

[BristolexFlyer]

Still hoping Humberside may feature at some point with Jet2.

We can dream!

Kind regards

BristolexFlyer

[pug]

Still hoping Humberside may feature at some point with Jet2.

We can dream!

Kind regards

BristolexFlyer

If that ship ever existed it sailed many many years ago. I think with today’s news, more than 90% of the U.K. population will be within 90 minutes of a jet2 airport now. Any more than that would be overkill and risks huge overheads with little reward.

It could provide TUI with a niche though, serving local.

[VickersVicount]

It could provide TUI with a niche though, serving local.
Niche and Tui ships sailed way before this…

[Sotonsean]

Sorry to be a party pooper, but they haven’t said that at all.

https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/jet2-boss-rules-out-gatwick-launch-and-says-no-more-new-bases-after-bournemouth-45518

Would suggest that they have the U.K covered now, and growth will be focussed on the incumbents.

On BBC South Today this evening (Tuesday 26 May) they broadcasted a lengthy piece about the announcement by Jet2 of setting up a base at Bournemouth Airport.

Part of speech made by the boss of Jet2 to thtose present was a suggestion of moving into smaller airports in the UK. I saw the article on the midday news as well as this evenings. I heard it twice. If I watch the late evening broadcast at 10.35 I'll more than likely hear it said for a third time.

He made note of the fact that Jet2 only serve 12 airports with the addition of Bournemouth and moving forward he would like see the company cover more of the UK.

What was mentioned in the TTG article and what was said in person are obviously two different things.

[pug]

On BBC South Today this evening (Tuesday 26 May) they broadcasted a lengthy piece about the announcement by Jet2 of setting up a base at Bournemouth Airport.

Part of speech made by the boss of Jet2 to thtose present was a suggestion of moving into smaller airports in the UK. I saw the article on the midday news as well as this evenings. I heard it twice. If I watch the late evening broadcast at 10.35 I'll more than likely hear it said for a third time.

He made note of the fact that Jet2 only serve 12 airports with the addition of Bournemouth and moving forward he would like see the company cover more of the UK.

What was mentioned in the TTG article and what was said in person are obviously two different things.

Having watched BBC South on iPlayer news items regarding the announcement there was absolutely no mention of intentions to open more bases at small airports, no mention of only having 12 bases. It was all about Bournemouth, the gap on a map of the South now being filled and the aims to reach carbon neutral status. Together with the link provided, plus the general feeling around today, that is probably the last U.K. base for jet2 at least for a few years.

[Doors to...]

I wonder if at some point J2 will also move into the retail market, for example buy Hays Travel, rebrand all the offices and bingo ! take TUI on head to head, this would work extremely well if J2 are talking about operating form more local airports, never say never !

[1889LS]

I wonder if at some point J2 will also move into the retail market, for example buy Hays Travel, rebrand all the offices and bingo ! take TUI on head to head, this would work extremely well if J2 are talking about operating form more local airports, never say never !
jet2 are already considerably bigger than TUI in the UK, there’s no need to “take on tui” when they’re already the bigger fish. Why would they take on expensive property rents and business rates when they have no need to do so?

[rog747]

Still hoping Humberside may feature at some point with Jet2.

We can dream!

Kind regards

BristolexFlyer

Both HUY and NWI (and also EXT) are pretty tiny and are basically one x 737 bases, or use some W flights (TUI)
EXT once, used to be very busy with FCA and TCK and others.

Today BOH will now see TUI base 2 x 738's for this summer, and for next summer Jet2 will also base 2 there.
That is a really big expansion of package holidays available from Bournemouth.

Jet2 have STN, so Southend will not likely be on their radar, plus Easyjet are slowly increasing their leisure flights from SEN.
Jet2 open the LPL Base this week.
Jet2 BRS is doing really well.

If DSA Doncaster were to reopen then its possible that Jet2 (who are now the UK's #1 holiday Co.) may go in, and beat TUI to it.
Jet2 are the ''Darlings of the North'' so it's feasible they may like to add DSA.

A SOU Southampton base is a no-go due to the operational and payload limitations for the 737-800 and that is unlikely to change anytime in the future.

[Airbanda]

That certainly could be a good option yes. If they are willing to do W patterns, then they will have a lot of success. Something quite telling is Norwich airport advertisement posts on Facebook for TUI with so many comments below asking for Jet2 :E

Would a W going LBA>PMI>NWI>PMI>LBA in the current regulatory/terms conditions environment require a crew slip at NWI?

Back in the seventies when BY operated W sectors to LBA with MAN based a/c crew were, IIRC, taken from to MAN by taxi.

[Nantucket Sleighride]

Would a W going LBA>PMI>NWI>PMI>LBA in the current regulatory/terms conditions environment require a crew slip at NWI?

Back in the seventies when BY operated W sectors to LBA with MAN based a/c crew were, IIRC, taken from to MAN by taxi.



yes it would, which is one of the Myriad of reasons why it, or anything like it wont happen. Operationally challenging for minimal incremental reward

[rog747]

Still plenty of W flying happens in the UK, with TUI (HUY EXT LBA MME and ABZ) and also Easyjet do them as well.

You can use the same crew for all 4 sectors if the flight times allow for it.

[pug]

Still plenty of W flying happens in the UK, with TUI (HUY EXT LBA MME and ABZ) and also Easyjet do them as well.

You can use the same crew for all 4 sectors if the flight times allow for it.

They won’t do it. Best case they’d reopen Spanish bases and perhaps do inbounds, but even then the whole point in having those overseas bases was to have resilience built in to the operation. Not ideal to have aircraft and crew all over the place. Just doesn’t seem feasible or beneficial.

[1889LS]

G-SUNG delivered to MAN

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

They won’t do it. Best case they’d reopen Spanish bases and perhaps do inbounds, but even then the whole point in having those overseas bases was to have resilience built in to the operation. Not ideal to have aircraft and crew all over the place. Just doesn’t seem feasible or beneficial.
Could they open a Spanish base on the UK AOC nowadays?

[pug]

Could they open a Spanish base on the UK AOC nowadays?

Not sure, wouldn’t be surprised to see it happen somehow and at some point but of course you have all the added hoops to jump through post Brexit so guess it comes down to the cost and complexity vs the added risk of passengers being stuck down route and the associated claims that come with it. Unsure if the rules of a U.K. AOC operating purely between Spain and the U.K. from a Spanish base as in my view as any internal flights in Spain would be positioning flights in such a scenario. You’d probably need enough U.K. licenced crew with the right to live and work in Spain. Just my observation and others may think differently.

One of the things they’re exceptionally good at is looking after the customer, so if it pays to keep them ahead in that then they might do it even if it’s not the most desirable situation from a financial and operational standpoint.

[SWBKCB]

Ryanair make it work at Stansted...

[Sharklet_321]

If Jet2 ever did Jersey from Bournemouth it would be a true spiritual return to a route often run albeit by their trusty freighter Heralds and F-27’s many years ago. Would be very fitting to hear the Channex call sign on such a route.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Ryanair make it work at Stansted...
That was an existing set up that was allowed to continue though, I wonder if Iberia could open a base in the UK now though?

[SWBKCB]

That was an existing set up that was allowed to continue though, I wonder if Iberia could open a base in the UK now though?

Why would it be different to RYR, have they get some sort of dispensation? And RYR have opened UK bases since Brexit.

[ATNotts]

That was an existing set up that was allowed to continue though, I wonder if Iberia could open a base in the UK now though?
Interesting question. Going back to last year I am sure I read that the CAA and HMG took a dim view of Jet2 and TUI basing EU registered aircraft in UK to provide extra summer capacity using Czech, Latvian etc crews, even though they were only flying UK to EU routes. I was therefore surprised to see that both airlines are using EU airlines based here for 2024.

On the basis that this allowed, why shouldn't Iberia ppen a UK base, with EU crews to serve EU destinations?

[rog747]

I gather since we left the EU airlines and its crews/staff could not easily ''cross work'' amongst the old existing Bases here in the UK and in the EU (which includes Eire)

Thus we saw various airlines including Easyjet and Ryanair re register a mass of their fleets in Austria, Malta, Poland, the UK and Eire etc,
plus basing what were once UK aircraft now overseas. Both companies set up EU divisions.

This year TUI has set up Fly4, a joint venture for ACMI/sub charter flying with Enter Air. Headquartered in Ireland.
It's all a convoluted deal to get around the EU workplace and EASA rules.

I doubt Iberia could now set up a LHR base, likewise nor could BA at say, MAD.

[SWBKCB]

Which doesn't explain why Ryanair have numerous UK bases with Irish registered aircraft.

[rog747]

Which doesn't explain why Ryanair have numerous UK bases with Irish registered aircraft.

Yes indeed, and I've no idea as to how that legacy occurs.
Have you yourself any clues >?
it's so complicated nowadays

[ATNotts]

Which doesn't explain why Ryanair have numerous UK bases with Irish registered aircraft.
Has it perhaps got to do with special arrangements that exist for Irish citizens to live and work in UK perhaps?

Surely so far as EU registered aircraft are concerned provided they operate exclusively between UK and EU airports, so not for example Tirana or Agadir its all good. If so then surely Jet2 could base aircraft at PMI and employ EU pilots with UK licences? Or is that just too simple?

[pug]

Which doesn't explain why Ryanair have numerous UK bases with Irish registered aircraft.

There is a large enough workforce in the U.K. with EASA licences. The EI reg aircraft are not permitted to fly on inter-uk commercial operations, they do have the U.K. AOC for that purpose and I understand have a shortage of U.K. licensed crew. Thats a very simple way of explaining how Ryanair get around it, I’m sure there are other aspects too.

[sewushr]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about the impact of Brexit and some of the preceding posts are mixing up factors which are Brexit related with things that have absolutely nothing to do with the UK leaving the EU.

I've had a try at explaining some of this before, but admittedly not on this particular forum, so here goes...

Firstly, easyJet Europe (Austria), Ryanair UK, Wizz Air UK, Aer Lingus UK etc were set up entirely as a result of Brexit. Post-Brexit, easyJet cannot use their UK AOC to fly EU-EU sectors (regardless of where the aircraft and crew are 'based' - whatever that means!). Likewise Ryanair, Wizz etc cannot use an EU AOC to fly between the UK and a point outside the EU, or operate UK domestic sectors.

Ryanair's Maltese and Polish subsidiaries, and indeed the plethora of Malta AOCs set up by other EU operators, are nothing to do with Brexit, but purely to reduce costs.

Taking the Iberia question above, there is nothing to stop Iberia 'basing' aircraft in the UK (so that the first sector of the day is UK-EU and the last sector EU-UK). Plenty of operators do that anyway in order to operate an early morning departure to their main hub. Another example of a European operator basing aircraft in the UK is Polish charter airline Enter Air who have based an aircraft at Gatwick for many summers to operate charter flights for smaller UK tour operators. Brexit hasn't changed their right to do this.

In the post-Brexit world, traffic rights are determined purely by the nationality of the operator and the origin and destination of the route, not by where the aircraft is nominally based, if that can even be determined.

As far as the TUI/Enter Air JV is concerned, I believe Fly4 Airlines was set up because TUI was rather dissatisfied with the reliability of some of their previous ACMI providers, and wanted to have more direct control over the aircraft that are wet-leased in for the summer season. As far as what is and isn't allowed since Brexit, there is no difference between TUI Airways wet-leasing aircraft from an Irish AOC holder and a Latvian, Lithuanian or Slovakian one.

[rog747]

Great summing up there, many thanks.

I had too, wondered about the Enter Air operation for small tour operators at LGW these past few years.

I am mindful still though as to whether Iberia could set up a crew base at LHR, but bow to your kind post.

[pug]

Sewushr, thanks for taking the time to explain succinctly. So my suspicions about the possibility of Jet2 basing aircraft in Spain as per pre-Brexit are that it would come down to having crew with U.K. licences being able to live or spend enough time in those Spanish destinations? Because any positioning flights would be non revenue there would be no problem doing so on G-Reg aircraft.

The issue is solely one of cabotage within the EU. I would therefore not be surprised to see some Spanish bases purely for the purpose of adding resilience into the operation. Not suggesting this will open up W patterns, or routes to non U.K. bases.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Why would it be different to RYR, have they get some sort of dispensation? And RYR have opened UK bases since Brexit.
I believe they got dispensation and were treated as an exception but ISTBC. There would have been one helluva cost into putting whole UK fleet onto the new UK AOC, that being said, easyJet had to do exactly that to non UK bases which went to a new Austrian AOC. The UK chose to allow Ryanair to remain based in the UK with an EU AOC, the EU did not reciprocate, (why would they?) Ryanair UK exists only for UK domestic and UK to non EU. SAS Connect also have a similar legacy base at LHR.

[Jonty]

Ryanair is on an Irish AOC and that is treated differently by the UK as its part of the Common Travel Area.

That was my understanding anyway.

[1889LS]

All of this years leased aircraft except G-VYGM are now in daily operation

[sewushr]

I'm sorry Skipness, I think you are missing the point and still seem to be fixated on the idea of bases. Ryanair don't need to have all of their aircraft, or any of them in fact, on a UK AOC to fly between the UK and EU, regardless of whether many of their aircraft overnight at Stansted. easyJet could, in theory, base aircraft at an EU airport but they would only be able to fly from that airport to the UK, not to another place in the EU. Hardly worth them bothering as they can do the same with UK originating aircraft.

The rights are reciprocal. The EU (as a whole) is one market and the UK is another. Operators from both sides can fly between one block (market) and the other, but not entirely within the other party's block. The EU is a much larger 'single market' than the UK of course, which makes it seem that EU operators are getting a better deal. But it is definitely not the case that the UK grants privileges to European operators that are not on offer to UK operators in Europe

[WHBM]

Article here says that Jet2 are looking for flight crew redundancies

A spokesperson for Jet2 ... "We have recently reviewed our operations in Spain. As a result, we must sadly propose several colleague redundancies across Resort Flight Check-in, Flight Deck and Cabin Crew roles.

Jet2 to axe popular holiday service for Brits while putting hundreds of jobs at risk (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/jet2-to-axe-popular-holiday-service-for-brits-while-putting-hundreds-of-jobs-at-risk/ar-BB1kKzKl?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=441d7e1972824882b5880c30a400fe7c&ei=69)

Seems somewhat inconsistent with their expansion of fleet, and other accounts of difficulties in getting enough crew.

[ATNotts]

Article here says that Jet2 are looking for flight crew redundancies



Jet2 to axe popular holiday service for Brits while putting hundreds of jobs at risk (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/jet2-to-axe-popular-holiday-service-for-brits-while-putting-hundreds-of-jobs-at-risk/ar-BB1kKzKl?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=441d7e1972824882b5880c30a400fe7c&ei=69)

Seems somewhat inconsistent with their expansion of fleet, and other accounts of difficulties in getting enough crew.
The story only appears to be in The Mirror and copied and pasted across the Reach group that includes the notoriously reliable (not) Express and regional titles. So far Simon Calder doesn't seem to have picked up on it in the Independent.

Not really surprised about resort check in facing the axe, perhaps not enough people were taking it up.

[VLCfkight]

Reported elsewhere that Jet2 Holidays have decided to stop offering their in-resort check-in to their customers and this will result in redundancies amongst their overseas staff - I think I saw rçthe figure of 600 redundancies quoted. No mention of any redunancies amongs cabin or flight crew. Somebody jumping to the wrong conclusion?

[WHBM]

Reported elsewhere that Jet2 Holidays have decided to stop offering their in-resort check-in to their customers and this will result in redundancies amongst their overseas staff - I think I saw the figure of 600 redundancies quoted. No mention of any redundancies amongst cabin or flight crew. Somebody jumping to the wrong conclusion?
Seems a bit of a gross media blunder if so - one would expect an immediate retraction from Jet2.

[S.o.S.]

Sewushr Thank you for the carefully set out explanations. You might need to repeat them in other forums ...

[SWBKCB]

Not sure what you mean - the article contains a direct quote from a Jet2 spokesperson. Are you saying that is incorrect?

A spokesperson for Jet2 would not say if the check-in service would stop when asked, or, if it will, when. They would also not be drawn on whether the redundancies and service ending are connecting. They said: "We have recently reviewed our operations in Spain. As a result, we must sadly propose several colleague redundancies across Resort Flight Check-in, Flight Deck and Cabin Crew roles. We deeply regret these proposed redundancies, and we will be consulting with appropriate representatives of the affected Colleagues to ensure that all options are fully considered.”

The 600 figure was for Border Force

In April 600 Border Force workers are due to walk out over proposed changes to shifts.

[Jonty]

From what I understand they are closing their overseas bases. I think thats ALC and PMI but not sure. I think its Brexit related.

[pabely]

Remember Philip Meeson has gone, things were bound to change with a new Chairman in charge.
The NEOs are proving to be very costly currently and will do for many years whilst engineering get to grips with them, crew retrain etc. Aka the older 737s brought in which are cheap and spare parts plentiful.
Every area will be under cost checking now so profits are maintained.

[VickersVicount]

The NEOs are proving to be very costly currently and will do for many years
Not sure ‘very costly’ is necessarily the case when not privy to the new customer large order enticement deal which presumably was including training and initial maintenance etc.

[AircraftOperations]

Not sure ‘very costly’ is necessarily the case when not privy to the new customer large order enticement deal which presumably was including training and initial maintenance etc.

Plus the NEOs are saving tonnes of fuel each sector versus their Boeing 757 predecessors, which helps to offset against any new model associated increased costs.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I'm sorry Skipness, I think you are missing the point and still seem to be fixated on the idea of bases. Ryanair don't need to have all of their aircraft, or any of them in fact, on a UK AOC to fly between the UK and EU
That's not what I said. The UK AOC exists as post Brexit, Ryanair cannot fly UK domestics or UK to non EU on the Irish AOC.

[1889LS]

The NEOs are proving to be very costly currently and will do for many years.

You’re just making things up there

[SWBKCB]

I believe they got dispensation and were treated as an exception but ISTBC. There would have been one helluva cost into putting whole UK fleet onto the new UK AOC, that being said, easyJet had to do exactly that to non UK bases which went to a new Austrian AOC. The UK chose to allow Ryanair to remain based in the UK with an EU AOC, the EU did not reciprocate, (why would they?)

That's not what I said. The UK AOC exists as post Brexit, Ryanair cannot fly UK domestics or UK to non EU on the Irish AOC.

Though still no clarafication about how RYR's Stansted base (and all the other RYR UK bases) is different to a Jet2 base in PMI or ALC (or an Iberia base at LHR)

[shamrock7seal]

You’re just making things up there

Quite agree. NEO’s are one of the - if not the - lowest cost aircraft you can operate on a per seat basis and certainly far more efficient than the 738’s they replace.

The MAX may have a slight upper hand on the per seat cost when compared to the NEO but still better than the existing Jet2 fleet.

[SWBKCB]

Quite agree. NEO’s are one of the - if not the - lowest cost aircraft you can operate on a per seat basis and certainly far more efficient than the 738’s they replace.

The MAX may have a slight upper hand on the per seat cost when compared to the NEO but still better than the existing Jet2 fleet.

That's not the point that was being made - Pabely was referring to additional costs while introducing a new fleet type, not long term efficiency

[GrahamK]

That's not the point that was being made - Pabely was referring to additional costs while introducing a new fleet type, not long term efficiency
I'm sure Airbus will have offered them a sweetener

[1889LS]

G-SUNH first revenue flight to Grenoble.

[Flying Hi]

G-SUNH first revenue flight to Grenoble.
I wonder if the cockpits have that wonderful 'new car' smell?:zzz:

[WHBM]

From what I understand they are closing their overseas bases. I think that's ALC and PMI but not sure. I think its Brexit related.
I don't think Jet2 have had any flight bases in Spain since before lockdown (when I think it was confined to Alicante). All their Spanish flights are straight in there and back out again.

[Flying Hi]

I don't think Jet2 have had any flight bases in Spain since before lockdown (when I think it was confined to Alicante). All their Spanish flights are straight in there and back out again.
I think they had one posted in the Canaries too to cope with any aircraft going sick out there. Can't remember if it was Tenerife or Gran Canaria

[pabely]

You’re just making things up there
Do some spanner work on a NEO, it's not always about how much gas it guzzles!

[Vokes55]

Do some spanner work on a NEO, it's not always about how much gas it guzzles!

Not to mention the cost of the aircraft itself. It’ll be a long time before the fuel savings of a NEO offset the increase in lease/loan costs compared to an owned and paid off aircraft.

And there’s certainly no way these expensive aircraft can spend half the winter parked up like the current fleet. Good luck filling 70 232-seat aircraft on a Wednesday in January.

[FRatSTN]

Don't TUI UK have a winter seasonal base in Tenerife? I imagine Jet2 would do something similar again. I know they had bases in Alicante and Palma, both with 2 aircraft each if I remember rightly. Don't remember Jet2 ever having bases in the Canaries but might be wrong.

The other benefit of doing it besides resilience for tech aircraft down route is that it allows them to fly off peak into the UK. As airports like MAN and STN, and probably most of their UK bases in fact, are full overnight they can only grow by upgauging to the 321 neos or by basing aircraft overseas and flying them into the UK.

[Jonty]

Do some spanner work on a NEO, it's not always about how much gas it guzzles!

no it isn’t, but your comparing apples and oranges.
to start the 737 to compete capacity wise with the 321 is the Max-10, which you can’t actually get.
then add in the 28Kn engines of the 737 compared to the 35Kn engines of the 321, and you have a much more useable aircraft performance wise.
then think about where the 737 is going after the MAX, and the damage that another Max accident could do to the 737, and all the issues Boeing has. And it ends up being a bit no brainer.

[sewushr]

OK Skipness, fair enough, but this is what you did say (I'll have one more try at explaining this, then bow out!)

'There would have been one helluva cost into putting whole UK fleet onto the new UK AOC, that being said, easyJet had to do exactly that to non UK bases which went to a new Austrian AOC. The UK chose to allow Ryanair to remain based in the UK with an EU AOC, the EU did not reciprocate, (why would they?)'

That suggests you thought there was a requirement for Ryanair to place all of their 'UK-based' aircraft on a UK AOC to operate between the UK and EU, which is obviously not the case. easyJet had to set up the Austrian AOC to operate EU-EU flights, in the same way that Ryanair UK was created to fly the UK domestics and flights to non-EU points. You've recognised this, but still seem to think there is some inconsistency between an EU operator no longer being allowed to fly UK domestic routes and a UK AOC holder no longer being allowed to fly internal EU routes. There is nothing to stop easyJet basing G- reg aircraft at EU airports and flying from those bases exclusively to the UK (in the same way that Ryanair bases aircraft in the UK to fly exclusively to the EU), but from a EZY Group perspective, it is far simpler for them to use the Austrian AOC for that. What some people seem to think of as 'unfair' is simply the result of the EU (27 States) being a far bigger single 'domestic' market than the UK. The rules are applied in a non-discriminatory way to operators from both sides.

And I'll repeat, the whole concept of 'bases' is irrelevant as far as the Air Services Agreement between the UK and EU is concerned. It matters not where an aircraft sits overnight, only which routes it operates.

[Ironside0]

TBH I am suprised in resort check in made a comeback after covid,it seemed a good opportunity to get rid of it then.
We have used it a couple of times but didnt really see any great benefit from it especially at the airport where because jet2 usually have plenty of desks and staff,cases are not really an issue.
Each time we have been away since covid there seem to be less and less people using the service,last December in Lanzarote we chatted to the Jet2 staff at the hotel manning the drop off point and they admitted that some days there were no takers for the service,the cost of the resort staff, lorrys and drivers and no doubt insurance of bags etc that they were not charging the customers for makes you wonder it lasted as long as it did!
Maybe someone has looked at the accounts and asked where is the income to cover this service?
It was never a make or break for us in choosing who to fly with.

[1889LS]

Not to mention the cost of the aircraft itself. It’ll be a long time before the fuel savings of a NEO offset the increase in lease/loan costs compared to an owned and paid off aircraft.

And there’s certainly no way these expensive aircraft can spend half the winter parked up like the current fleet. Good luck filling 70 232-seat aircraft on a Wednesday in January.

A high proportion of the Neo fleet is going to be owned outright too.

When you own an aircraft you don’t lose anything by parking it, aircraft life is definitely by pressurised cycles not months and years, less cycles = longer in the fleet making money.

Parts and maintenance for a brand new aircraft type will cost more in the short term yes, as they will have to be bought new and not salvaged from retired frames, or refurbished and moved around the fleet. However in 10 years time when usable 737NG parts will be on the decrease and there we be an absolute mountain of Neo spares available this will be the other way around. Not to mention J2 will have a young fleet requiring less maintenance anyway.

And that’s without even mentioning the performance and capacity advantages.

It really is clutching at straws trying to criticise a business for future proofing itself.

[Vokes55]

A high proportion of the Neo fleet is going to be owned outright too.

When you own an aircraft you don’t lose anything by parking it

So do you think Jet2 are getting these aircraft for free? Owned or leased, they still cost a lot of money every month.

[1889LS]

So do you think Jet2 are getting these aircraft for free? Owned or leased, they still cost a lot of money every month.

So what’s your solution? Keep buying second hand versions of an aircraft type that is no longer in production because they’re a bit cheaper. But will cost you more on fuel, need more maintenance and will eventually be a nightmare to keep in the sky because the parts will become obsolete or increasingly expensive due to falling availability and exponentially rising age related failures. And then you'll be in a position where you’ll have to replace an entire fleet all at once - while being in a worse financial situation anyway due to the lack of progressive modernisation and future proofing.

And that’s just looking at the maintenance side of things. You also need to look at improved economy, flexibility and growth that comes with upgrading.

When you make financial decisions you’ve got to look further ahead than the end of your own nose.

[Kevgti]

Not to mention the cost of the aircraft itself. It’ll be a long time before the fuel savings of a NEO offset the increase in lease/loan costs compared to an owned and paid off aircraft.

And there’s certainly no way these expensive aircraft can spend half the winter parked up like the current fleet. Good luck filling 70 232-seat aircraft on a Wednesday in January.
The NEOs are owned at the minute....with the cost amortized over the life of the plane....currently they will be worth more than they paid for them given the wait to get a new build NEO.

[Vokes55]

So what’s your solution?

I don’t care. I’m merely stating that they will need to fly more often than the current Jet2 fleet does for the fuel savings to come anywhere near offsetting the lease/purchase costs of expensive new aircraft.

The NEOs are owned at the minute....with the cost amortized over the life of the plane....currently they will be worth more than they paid for them given the wait to get a new build NEO.

Only SUNB of the current fleet is owned, the rest are leased.

[Kevgti]

I don’t care. I’m merely stating that they will need to fly more often than the current Jet2 fleet does for the fuel savings to come anywhere near offsetting the lease/purchase costs of expensive new aircraft.



Only SUNB of the current fleet is owned, the rest are leased.
SUNB is owned by Jet2.com Limited the others are chartered from Jet2 plc with finance secured against them, that's not the same as leasing....the assets are still owned by Jet2.

[Karl Denton]

Does anyone know if there is going to be a 3rd A330 leased this year? Last year it was the W2F and year before the Wamos
Thanks

[hec7or]

I remember a while back, someone at Thomson said "a 787 costs the same as a 767 when it's parked - it's only when it's in the air that it's saving money".

[Chesty Morgan]

I don’t care. I’m merely stating that they will need to fly more often than the current Jet2 fleet does for the fuel savings to come anywhere near offsetting the lease/purchase costs of expensive new aircraft.

Jet2 management thank you for your insight and business acumen. They'd like to offer you a highly paid management position as none of them had thought of that beforehand.

[1889LS]

Does anyone know if there is going to be a 3rd A330 leased this year? Last year it was the W2F and year before the Wamos
Thanks
No, just 2.
The plan was for all 3 to come from air tanker however due to changing situations AT couldn’t guarantee the 3rd jet would be available all summer long, so J2 opted for the 2 ETF 738s instead.

[Vokes55]

SUNB is owned by Jet2.com Limited the others are chartered from Jet2 plc with finance secured against them, that's not the same as leasing....the assets are still owned by Jet2.

Leased, owned, chartered, the result is the same - new aircraft are expensive.

[1889LS]

Leased, owned, chartered, the result is the same - new aircraft are expensive.
Nonsense.

You can rent a house, you can pay a mortgage, or you buy with cash.

Renting a house is costly, you lose money and have nothing to show for it at the end of your tenancy.

Paying a mortgage is also costly at the beginning, but once it’s paid off then you have an asset that’s all yours and have all the benefits of it.

Buying outright is the optimal, you have the asset to do as you like with, and none of the ongoing overheads.

Jet2 are using a mixture of the last two options for their purchases, just like they always have done.

[ATNotts]

When you make financial decisions you’ve got to look further ahead than the end of your own nose.

Absolutely that!

[azz767]

Nonsense.

You can rent a house, you can pay a mortgage, or you buy with cash.

Renting a house is costly, you lose money and have nothing to show for it at the end of your tenancy.

Paying a mortgage is also costly at the beginning, but once it’s paid off then you have an asset that’s all yours and have all the benefits of it.

Buying outright is the optimal, you have the asset to do as you like with, and none of the ongoing overheads.

Jet2 are using a mixture of the last two options for their purchases, just like they always have done.


Whilst your point generically is correct housing is a poor comparison.

Houses generally appreciate in value and don’t fall obsolete, which aircraft will do as new tech comes on board.

The big thing with jet2 now though, both in terms of the NEO and the oversees bases. Jet2 are now primarily a charter airline filled by pax from their in house holiday division, not an LCC, which they were in their first 10 years of ops.

They will always sell enough holidays to make their new a/c financially viable so have no need to operate ‘away based flights’ like RYR or EZY/EJU. The same as with overseas bases, because they are now essentially a uk tour operator they won’t operate flights from the ‘destination’ to the uk. They may put a couple of spares down route but they won’t operate revenue flights from for the example ALC - UK - ALC.

[Kevgti]

Leased, owned, chartered, the result is the same - new aircraft are expensive.
Not quite correct. Jet2 have negotiated a price to buy direct from Airbus. They are now choosing to draw down finance against these assets which will be worth more than what Jet2 paid for them (United would grab these.planes in a breath to fill the Max 10 void). Very different from leasing a A321neo from a lessor. As always Jet2 are very astute when it comes to money

[EI-BUD]

Though still no clarafication about how RYR's Stansted base (and all the other RYR UK bases) is different to a Jet2 base in PMI or ALC (or an Iberia base at LHR)


The is no difference between a Ryanair base at STN and a Jet2 base are PMI/ALC. However, if Ryanair wasn't to fly inside the UK they need to do so on a G- reg and equally if Jet2 want to fly inside EU, they need an EU reg. As you know Jet2 don't do that so they don't need an EU operating airline or EU reg aircraft. This all relates to scheduled services.

There can be exceptions and we've seen some of those, an example would be Aer Lingus UK swapping out one of it's G- reg 330s for an EI- reg example to cover maintenance. Equally, EI axed BHD/LHR as they'd have needed a G- reg to do so and adding a single 320 to the UK licence would have been impractical. There are exceptions like the EI UK example with the 330, but I don't have visibility of the specifics.

I note that Charters too may have more flexibility as TUI and Jet2 charters ex Dublin were flying Ireland to Europe (ski, sun and Lapland trips).

As another point mentioned earlier. Jet2 have not had any aircraft or crew cases in ALC since pre pandemic. They can do that with existing operating licences to/from UK for operational efficiency, if they wanted.

[WHBM]

The downside of any holiday flight operator basing the aircraft at the Mediterranean end is that it shortens the available holiday for the customers, by about half a day. First thing departures from say Alicante at 0800 means getting out of your hotel at maybe 0400, and the return even from this first wave won't have you on the beach until the sun is going down. As people move away from the classic fortnight with back-to-back flights, to shorter holidays (many mainstream Jet2 routes are now pretty much daily, to allow this flexibility), it's a notable loss.

Regarding hotel baggage drop on the return, it's really of no consequence, because whether you do so, or wait until the airport check in, the coach comes at the same time !

[occasional]

Anyone know why the Jet2 website has not been working for almost a week ?

[MANFAN]

Anyone know why the Jet2 website has not been working for almost a week ?

It’s fine for me…maybe trying clearing your history and cookies…
https://www.jet2.com

[vectisman]

As usual on these forums, those who can't bear positive news or a success story have to start thinking of ways of predicting uncertainty or doom for a particular airport or airline.
Looks like Jet2 is the next target with warnings about new aircraft costs etc.... As I have said before the airlines and airports of this country must be devastated that they have missed the opportunity
of employing so many 'armchair CEOs' who obviously know better! :mad:

[SWBKCB]

That's a bit of an over reaction, surely? To be honest, though, I'm now getting curious about the level of defensive response! :ok:

[vectisman]

No just a comment. I have no connection with the airline so no need to be defensive. I was just making a general observation.

[Jonty]

To be fair, it’s always the same people making these comments.

Sometimes you just can’t argue with stupid.

[SealinkBF]

Jet2 Holidays has announced hundreds of redundancies in Spain, inc. airport staff. Feels like a bolt from the blue!

https://www.travelmole.com/news/jet2-plans-hundreds-of-airport-job-redundancies-in-spain/?otg=1&nidd=YmlsbHlzaGVhcmVyQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ==

[Jonty]

Jet2 Holidays has announced hundreds of redundancies in Spain, inc. airport staff. Feels like a bolt from the blue!

https://www.travelmole.com/news/jet2-plans-hundreds-of-airport-job-redundancies-in-spain/?otg=1&nidd=YmlsbHlzaGVhcmVyQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ==

Was discussed some days ago

[Flightrider]

The is no difference between a Ryanair base at STN and a Jet2 base are PMI/ALC. However, if Ryanair wasn't to fly inside the UK they need to do so on a G- reg and equally if Jet2 want to fly inside EU, they need an EU reg. As you know Jet2 don't do that so they don't need an EU operating airline or EU reg aircraft. This all relates to scheduled services.

There is a factor being overlooked here, which is around crew licensing and right to live and work.

Yes, Jet2 could base a couple of aircraft in Alicante or Palma or wherever. If they were UK-registered aircraft, they would need (post-Brexit) to be flown by pilots with UK and not EASA licences. Although there are quite a lot of pilots with the right to live and work in the UK who hold an EASA licence (so fine for Ryanair STN, LPL bases etc) then there are far fewer who have the right to live and work in Europe but hold a UK CAA licence. You'd therefore have a fairly big issue matching your UK aircraft based in ALC/PMI/wherever with UK-licensed crews who have the right to live and work to be based at the same places.

If they were keen to do it, one option may be to base some of the European ACMI aircraft in such a location. But putting their own aircraft may be much more problematic.

[irishlad06]

There is a factor being overlooked here, which is around crew licensing and right to live and work.

Yes, Jet2 could base a couple of aircraft in Alicante or Palma or wherever. If they were UK-registered aircraft, they would need (post-Brexit) to be flown by pilots with UK and not EASA licences. Although there are quite a lot of pilots with the right to live and work in the UK who hold an EASA licence (so fine for Ryanair STN, LPL bases etc) then there are far fewer who have the right to live and work in Europe but hold a UK CAA licence. You'd therefore have a fairly big issue matching your UK aircraft based in ALC/PMI/wherever with UK-licensed crews who have the right to live and work to be based at the same places.

If they were keen to do it, one option may be to base some of the European ACMI aircraft in such a location. But putting their own aircraft may be much more problematic.


this isn’t necessarily true - they have a TFS base in the winter which is fully crewed, on UK registered aircraft and mostly crewed by ex PMI / ALC based crew who stay in TFS along with other UK Crew. They also have a few hundred cabin crew who all hold EASA licenses to operate on non uk reg aircraft. I.e leases

[Flying Hi]

this isn’t necessarily true - they have a TFS base in the winter which is fully crewed, on UK registered aircraft and mostly crewed by ex PMI / ALC based crew who stay in TFS along with other UK Crew. They also have a few hundred cabin crew who all hold EASA licenses to operate on non uk reg aircraft. I.e leases
Per piost 1869, Thanks irishlad06 for clearing that up. I just couldn't remember where it was based.

[dcten]

BTW : Do you kmow Wet-Lease partner S 24?

[Flying Hi]

G-JZBX LEEDS TO FUE LS249 diverted to EMA squawking 7700.
currently stationary on runway.

[Airbanda]

G-JZBX LEEDS TO FUE LS249 diverted to EMA squawking 7700.
currently stationary on runway.

Did several orbits over LBA before diverting. Seems to be off the runway now.

Possibly a fault where a longer runway was needed?

EDIT: LBA enthusiasts' group mentions flap issues.

[Vokes55]

Nonsense.

You can rent a house, you can pay a mortgage, or you buy with cash.

Renting a house is costly, you lose money and have nothing to show for it at the end of your tenancy.

Paying a mortgage is also costly at the beginning, but once it’s paid off then you have an asset that’s all yours and have all the benefits of it.

Buying outright is the optimal, you have the asset to do as you like with, and none of the ongoing overheads.

Jet2 are using a mixture of the last two options for their purchases, just like they always have done.

What a ridiculous comparison. So is a house worth more as spares after the 25 year mortgage is paid off too? Does buying an aircraft outright mean it’s free, or do Jet2 still have to pay for it?

New aircraft are expensive, however you pay for them. They need to fly. All week, all year. I don’t understand why you fanboys can’t accept that?

Even Jet2 agree, their whole business model thus far has been to fly older, cheaper aircraft because their operations are so seasonal. It doesn’t cost much to park up a 20 year old aircraft for the winter. They don’t need to fly every day of the week. Their 757s fly once every 14 days in the Winter just to avoid being put into long term storage. Fuel savings only offset the cost of new aircraft if they’re flown regularly over long periods of time. The increased capacity only pays off if the aircraft is full. The improved performance only matters if it’s required.

To go from having older, owned and paid off 737s and 757s to a fleet of 100 new build A320/1s is a significant change to their operating model. Accept it. They operated as few as 19 flights on many Tuesdays and Wednesdays this Winter.

I thought it was just the grossly insecure Jet2 pilots that were so defensive. Turns out it’s the spotters too. Fascinating.

[WHBM]

To go from having older, owned and paid off 737s and 757s to a fleet of 100 new build A320/1s is a significant change to their operating model. Accept it. They operated as few as 19 flights on many Tuesdays and Wednesdays this Winter.
.
I think you will find they bought 33 brand new 737-800s from Boeing back in 2016-17, one of the largest European holiday flight operator purchases of recent times. These aircraft are now heading for middle age. Meanwhile they have continued to buy secondhand mid-life aircraft of the same type as well, including this year, and of course also to lease in by the season aircraft from the open market, as required. Now they have a new Airbus fleet coming. It's an effective balance of new aircraft finance costs and older aircraft maintenance and other costs. It saw them through Lockdown better than most.

[chaps1954]

I think the 757 were flying more that once every two weeks in winter as on Saturdays and Sundays most of them flew both days and some during week as well

[1889LS]

What a ridiculous comparison. So is a house worth more as spares after the 25 year mortgage is paid off too? Does buying an aircraft outright mean it’s free, or do Jet2 still have to pay for it?

New aircraft are expensive, however you pay for them. They need to fly. All week, all year. I don’t understand why you fanboys can’t accept that?

Even Jet2 agree, their whole business model thus far has been to fly older, cheaper aircraft because their operations are so seasonal. It doesn’t cost much to park up a 20 year old aircraft for the winter. They don’t need to fly every day of the week. Their 757s fly once every 14 days in the Winter just to avoid being put into long term storage. Fuel savings only offset the cost of new aircraft if they’re flown regularly over long periods of time. The increased capacity only pays off if the aircraft is full. The improved performance only matters if it’s required.

To go from having older, owned and paid off 737s and 757s to a fleet of 100 new build A320/1s is a significant change to their operating model. Accept it. They operated as few as 19 flights on many Tuesdays and Wednesdays this Winter.

I thought it was just the grossly insecure Jet2 pilots that were so defensive. Turns out it’s the spotters too. Fascinating.
If an aircraft is fully owned and paid for then it makes absolutely no difference whether it’s a cheap second hand frame or a new shiny one, you don’t lose any money by not flying it every day.

The only difference it makes it it will probably take 35 years to be life expired rather than 30, as it will have less cycles on it. Another benefit in the real world.

[P330]

This is about future cash v P&L.

From a P&L point of view, with an expensive capital asset, you need to work it hard to get the healthy returns because of the high depreciation hitting the P&L.

From a cash point of view, once you’ve spent the money it makes no future cash difference whether you use an old or new plane.

So, both of the above posts are right, but one is arguing on future cash outflows (no difference), one is arguing on the health of the P&L (it does make a difference).

[Wallsendmag]

With the lead time for new airframes from Airbus or Boeing is depreciation that heavy?

[P330]

Depreciation is the cost of the asset allocated to the P&L over a period of years/cycles.

Lead time doesn’t come into it.

This is why higher cost assets affect the P&L more than lower cost assets as you spread a previous cash outlay over a number of financial years.

[SWBKCB]

I think the point being made is that long lead times will maintain the value of the newer aircraft on the second hand market - don't know if this impact their value in the accounts. Would the rate of depreciation be modified?

[P330]

I think the point being made is that long lead times will maintain the value of the newer aircraft on the second hand market - don't know if this impact their value in the accounts. Would the rate of depreciation be modified?

Apologies, yes it would. In theory, this scenario would mean the frame takes longer to depreciate and has a higher book value later in life, so the annual depreciation charge would be lower.

In practice, whether airlines amend the depreciation policy annually to reflect market conditions, I don't know.

[WHBM]

I think the point being made is that long lead times will maintain the value of the newer aircraft on the second hand market - don't know if this impact their value in the accounts. Would the rate of depreciation be modified?
As ever with "accounting", an imprecise science if there ever was one, it all depends how you choose to do the arithmetic. Depreciation is meant to represent the real loss of initial value, but as you are not actually selling it then it's just a best guess. In some countries there are multiple different depreciation methods used in formal accounting reporting. Australia has one for your accounts, and a separate parallel one for tax calculation purposed. USA railroads are similar, the depreciation of assets for reporting results to the federal authorities are quite different to the one used for calculating reports to shareholders and owners.

Long term observers of airline finances will have noticed that BA Domestics have long been "loss making". Despite which they continue in operation. I do recall that in the past in connecting fares at Heathrow to intercontinentals they allocated £1 to the domestic leg ! The rest was all scooped by the intercontinental side, due to inter-department jousting at Waterside and its predecessor buildings. I think Jet2 is a bit more straightforward than that.

[Kevgti]

As ever with "accounting", an imprecise science if there ever was one, it all depends how you choose to do the arithmetic. Depreciation is meant to represent the real loss of initial value, but as you are not actually selling it then it's just a best guess. In some countries there are multiple different depreciation methods used in formal accounting reporting. Australia has one for your accounts, and a separate parallel one for tax calculation purposed. USA railroads are similar, the depreciation of assets for reporting results to the federal authorities are quite different to the one used for calculating reports to shareholders and owners.

Long term observers of airline finances will have noticed that BA Domestics have long been "loss making". Despite which they continue in operation. I do recall that in the past in connecting fares at Heathrow to intercontinentals they allocated £1 to the domestic leg ! The rest was all scooped by the intercontinental side, due to inter-department jousting at Waterside and its predecessor buildings. I think Jet2 is a bit more straightforward than that.
It will depend on how they calculate depreciation on how it will affect their P&L. One thing is sure that if tomorrow they decided to sell the A321neo's they would almost certainly be able to get more than they paid for them due to the demand from other operators for them

[laviation]

Indeed, with BA, I find myself being able to add a MAN-LHR tag to a long haul rewards redemption for practically nothing.

[WHBM]

Indeed, with BA, I find myself being able to add a MAN-LHR tag to a long haul rewards redemption for practically nothing.
There are commercial reasons and justifications for doing this, but not really on-topic for a Jet2 discussion.

[bobradamus]

This might put Jet2 in an awkward position if it goes ahead, with their relationship with AirTanker..divisive topic I know *hides*

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/12/rwanda-deportation-flights-airtanker-charter-airline-talks

[1889LS]

This might put Jet2 in an awkward position if it goes ahead, with their relationship with AirTanker..divisive topic I know *hides*

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/12/rwanda-deportation-flights-airtanker-charter-airline-talks
Why would Jet2 care about one of their trusted partner airlines taking on (completely legitimate and right) additional work which has no bearing on their contract.

[rog747]

Why would Jet2 care about one of their trusted partner airlines taking on (completely legitimate and right) additional work which has no bearing on their contract.

Indeed it'll all be fine, no one will notice a thing; LOL
Anyways Jet2 Holidays are prime time advertisers with the Jess Glynne TV ad (I love it) on both GB News and Talk TV so they won't care. (Giggles)

[1889LS]

Indeed it'll all be fine, no one will notice a thing; LOL
Anyways Jet2 Holidays are prime time advertisers with the Jess Glynne TV ad (I love it) on both GB News and Talk TV so they won't care. (Giggles)
You sarcasm is completely misplaced.

Atleast

95% of the population ether don’t know about, don’t care about, or support the deportation flights.
95% of the population will have no idea on the relationship between Jet2 and AirTanker.

And the few people that both a) disagree with the flights and b) are knowledgeable about jet2/airtanker operations, will have enough critical thinking capacity to realise that a business agreement made by one company has absolutely no bearing on the other.

[ATNotts]

Why would Jet2 care about one of their trusted partner airlines taking on (completely legitimate and right) additional work which has no bearing on their contract.
Were your average bucket and spade holiday maker bothered about whose steed carries them to their week in the sub there might be an issue, but by and large they don't.

However the fact that you felt the need to write what you did in brackets just underscores the contentious nature of the contract and journalists could indeed make trouble for Jet2 were they so inclined.

[rog747]

You sarcasm is completely misplaced.

Atleast

95% of the population ether don’t know about, don’t care about, or support the deportation flights.
95% of the population will have no idea on the relationship between Jet2 and AirTanker.
And the few people that both a) disagree with the flights and b) are knowledgeable about jet2/airtanker operations, will have enough critical thinking capacity to realise that a business agreement made by one company has absolutely no bearing on the other.

Deep.....lol
Its Friday afternoon, its the Weekend - soon will be G&T time, the sun's out so let's keep it light ---- I was having a laugh - It's' Pprune everybody!

[bobradamus]

😂😂🫣🫡😘

[vectisman]

Why would Jet2 care about one of their trusted partner airlines taking on (completely legitimate and right) additional work which has no bearing on their contract.
Once I have to disagree with you. To take on such a contract would be morally wrong. I would not travel with any airline that took part in deporting people, against their will, to a country that is actually far from democratic and corrupt.
I believe gay people are still imprisoned and executed there too. Appalling!

[SWBKCB]

Why would Jet2 care about one of their trusted partner airlines taking on (completely legitimate and right) additional work which has no bearing on their contract.

It's naive to think that nobody will make the link and that Jet2 won't get dragged into the negative publicity.

[Curious Pax]

Why would Jet2 care about one of their trusted partner airlines taking on (completely legitimate and right) additional work which has no bearing on their contract.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of it, you’re being stunningly naive if you don’t think this would trigger a social media storm. Given it is now public, and Jet2 seem pretty savvy about their brand reputation, I’d be surprised if there hasn’t already been a phone call to find out what’s what.

On the other side of the coin is the Air Tanker/RAF contract due for renewal before the next election?

[azz767]

Interesting point on the above, sky news this morning have pushed an MP hard during an interview on who the airline is should the bill be passed.

No doubt now that any airline associated with the bill will have its name dragged through the mud by the British press, and as mentioned above, Jet2 have a brand reputation they are massive on maintaining so won’t want to be associated with an airline running these flights.

It’ll be very interesting to see how this plays out

[ATNotts]

I watched the same interview. Leaving aside the shear uselessness of the minister and, for balance Dodds for the opposition I got the distinct impression that if Air Tanker were considering taking the Rwanda contract they may have got cold feet.

I would imagine Jet2 might have fired a shot across their bows and pointed out possible consequences of taking the business. Problem for Air Tanker must be that the MOD, and therefore the govrnment must be their largest revenue stream and there could be some serious financial arm twisting in play.

[bobradamus]

It’ll be an interesting one to watch how it plays out.

[Jonty]

Big article in The Times about it today.
No mention of Jet2 though.

[ATNotts]

Big article in The Times about it today.
No mention of Jet2 though.
The Air Tanker issue was discussed in the Sky News Press Preview last evening. The suggestion was that within their contract with HMG / MOD they are obliged to take the job if the client requests them to.

[1889LS]

Can anybody shed any light of the situation with G-SUNG?

It has a very prologed and delayed testing and finishing phase at XFW, and was eventually delivered after NF which rolled out of the production line weeks later. Been at MAN for over 3 weeks now and not even turned a wheel, while NFs entry into service was a matter of a couple of days.

[AirportPlanner1]

The AirTanker issue is indeed an interesting one for Jet2. It’s quite telling that no one wants to operate the flights despite the Government I’m sure offering to pay above the odds, and even Rwandair think it will do damage to the brand!

[Flightrider]

I'd be amazed if Air Tanker was able to decline missions tasked to it by Government. At the end of the day, it was created to become and replace the likes of 101 and 216 Squadron - could you imagine a response which says "we're not flying there - there's a war on"? It surely has an obligation to undertake whatever missions the Government of the day may demand of it - whether you, I, the media or anyone else may like the policy in question or not.

I'd have thought that also gives the ability to offer the most straightforward answer for both Jet2 and Air Tanker should the issue come up more widely. Unless someone can enlighten me to the contrary, if Air Tanker is effectively a Government transport department which has been out-sourced, it has a job to do and has no exercise of discretion in the construct of that tasking.

[ATNotts]

Flightrider,

Your analysis is probably spot on, though I can still see some discomfort for Jet2. All they could do is try and source alternative wide body equipment for the summer from, for example, Wamos or Privilege Style, supposing carriers have capacity this summer.

Cancelling the Air Tanker contract could potentially be costly.

[Mr Mac]

Flightridar
By the time those who were to be transported actually get near an aircraft post legal objections, you could probably get away with an A319 or if it goes really badly a Learjet !!! I should say I am against it for clarity.

Cheers
Mr Mac

[Oceanic815]

Unless someone can enlighten me to the contrary, if Air Tanker is effectively a Government transport department which has been out-sourced, it has a job to do and has no exercise of discretion in the construct of that tasking.

To the best of my knowledge, Airtanker is a purely Civilian company that won the contract to provide the RAF with 9 A330 aircraft to replace the VC10s and Tristars. They have a fleet of 14, the others being used for contacting work such as flying for Jet2. It is not a Government Transport Department. The only way Airtanker aircraft could be forced to fly asylum seekers to Rawanda is if the RAF did it, which I suggest is unlikely to happen. In my experience most Jet2 passengers don’t even know what type of aircraft they are on, let alone who owns it!

[AirportPlanner1]

In my experience most Jet2 passengers don’t even know what type of aircraft they are on, let alone who owns it!

You’re right (same for any airline) but all it takes is one single person with a reasonable following to clock they’re flying with ‘the Rwanda guys’ and outrage will follow, amplified by the same rags cheerleading the Rwanda scheme because its divisive and good for the clicks.

[AirportPlanner1]

I'd be amazed if Air Tanker was able to decline missions tasked to it by Government. At the end of the day, it was created to become and replace the likes of 101 and 216 Squadron - could you imagine a response which says "we're not flying there - there's a war on"? It surely has an obligation to undertake whatever missions the Government of the day may demand of it - whether you, I, the media or anyone else may like the policy in question or not.

This is where it gets murky. It’s not a military operation. It’s a political operation which is not what the military is there for.

[Cazza_fly]

This is where it gets murky. It’s not a military operation. It’s a political operation which is not what the military is there for.

Yet to that argument... all military operations are political operations.

[jethro15]

This association between Air Tanker and Jet2 appears to have taken a twist beyond Jet2’s control (Or my comprehension). Have I got it wrong?

Wikipedia is a resource I do not rely on. Yet this article does raise questions (In my mind!) as to how Air Tanker were granted their AOC and for what purpose?

AirTanker Services - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirTanker_Services)

Jet2 have used Air Tanker for a long period over past years. There has always been mention on this forum that Jet2 have been looking at long haul operations. Could this have come from someone within that thinking that there is a long-held contract with Air Tanker, which opened up the opportunity for rumours of long-haul aircraft for misguided long-haul operations?

My take (On face value only!) is that what most folk have failed to realise is that apart from the aircraft operating for Jet2, Air Tanker have additional aircraft.

The fact that the aircraft seconded to Jet2 has always implied to me that this was/is a long-held contract which was between Air Tanker gaining their AOC in the public eye whilst not disclosing the full intension to the public from a government point of view.

Were Jet2 led to believe that that long-haul operations were within their grasp and were sucked in? or has been seemed apparent – they saw the light?

Government – Air Tanker – Jet2?, raises questions.

Have I got wrong? You decide!. Please educate me.

[SWBKCB]

Is there any basis to the long-haul plans other than forum speculation?

Jet2 (United Kingdom) (https://www.ch-aviation.com/airlines/JE2) (LS, Leeds/Bradford (https://www.ch-aviation.com/airports/1886)) has signed a three-year contract with AirTanker (https://www.ch-aviation.com/airlines/AIZ) (9L, Brize Norton (https://www.ch-aviation.com/airports/1850)) covering two A330-200 (https://www.ch-aviation.com/aircraft-data/332)s, which will be wet-leased for the Summer 2023 season and then damp-leased to the leisure-focused low-cost carrier

https://www.ch-aviation.com/news/126979-uks-jet2-wetdamp-leases-a330s-under-a-three-year-deal

[Jonty]

This association between Air Tanker and Jet2 appears to have taken a twist beyond Jet2’s control (Or my comprehension). Have I got it wrong?

Wikipedia is a resource I do not rely on. Yet this article does raise questions (In my mind!) as to how Air Tanker were granted their AOC and for what purpose?

AirTanker Services - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirTanker_Services)

Jet2 have used Air Tanker for a long period over past years. There has always been mention on this forum that Jet2 have been looking at long haul operations. Could this have come from someone within that thinking that there is a long-held contract with Air Tanker, which opened up the opportunity for rumours of long-haul aircraft for misguided long-haul operations?

My take (On face value only!) is that what most folk have failed to realise is that apart from the aircraft operating for Jet2, Air Tanker have additional aircraft.

The fact that the aircraft seconded to Jet2 has always implied to me that this was/is a long-held contract which was between Air Tanker gaining their AOC in the public eye whilst not disclosing the full intension to the public from a government point of view.

Were Jet2 led to believe that that long-haul operations were within their grasp and were sucked in? or has been seemed apparent – they saw the light?

Government – Air Tanker – Jet2?, raises questions.

Have I got wrong? You decide!. Please educate me.


I'm not sure what your question is, but Air Tanker used to operate long haul services for Thomas Cook before they went bust.
Whether jet2 will ever go long haul is an open question, and one only their senior management can answer. My gut feeling is they will, eventually

[P330]

This may have been asked before, but anyone know why GDFF and GDFJ have never been fitted with winglets? They’ve been around for years and seems strange to have a Sub-fleet of 2 pretty much isolated in London or Manchester?

[azz767]

This may have been asked before, but anyone know why GDFF and GDFJ have never been fitted with winglets? They’ve been around for years and seems strange to have a Sub-fleet of 2 pretty much isolated in London or Manchester?

Seems to be one at MAN and one at STN at any one time. I’ve always wondered the same! Maybe not worth the expense for these two of fitting winglets.

Also i stand to be corrected but I believe all other second hand 738’s were delivered to jet2 with winglets already fitted, these two came without

[CWL757]

Don't quote me on it but I'm sure I heard they would require extensive and expensive work to the wings to enable them to be fitted. For 25 year old aircraft, it's probably not justified. Bit like many of the 752s never had winglets fitted.

[Yeehaw22]

Depends on line number. Early NG didn't have the extra structure in the wing installed. So much more extensive mod to retrofit winglets.

[LiamNCL]

Also i stand to be corrected but I believe all other second hand 738’s were delivered to jet2 with winglets already fitted, these two came without

G-DRTB & JZHD were delivered without winglets too

[Cazza_fly]

This may have been asked before, but anyone know why GDFF and GDFJ have never been fitted with winglets? They’ve been around for years and seems strange to have a Sub-fleet of 2 pretty much isolated in London or Manchester?

I wouldn't call it a Sub-fleet. They just simply don't have winglets. They are however able to operate to every destination the other 737-800s operate to in the fleet interchangeably. The only difference being, the fuel saving generated depending on the flight lengths.

A Sub-fleet would be where they have a different interior layout or major differences in operational restrictions, that mean they cant be interchanged with the daily flying program. These non-winglet 738s will be seen across the network.

[P330]

I wouldn't call it a Sub-fleet. They just simply don't have winglets. They are however able to operate to every destination the other 737-800s operate to in the fleet interchangeably. The only difference being, the fuel saving generated depending on the flight lengths.

A Sub-fleet would be where they have a different interior layout or major differences in operational restrictions, that mean they cant be interchanged with the daily flying program. These non-winglet 738s will be seen across the network.

I would ordinarily agree, but it seems like a conscious decision has been made to keep these at MAN and London and they are rarely seen in the Canaries so it feels like they are treated as a sub-fleet?

[Cazza_fly]

I would ordinarily agree, but it seems like a conscious decision has been made to keep these at MAN and London and they are rarely seen in the Canaries so it feels like they are treated as a sub-fleet?

I see what you're saying, but you could say that about a number of different aircraft wihin the fleet which have varying different weights and performance advantages/disadvantages. E.g the newer batch from Boeing, used to have a preference for being based at LBA where possible, due to better performance being used from that airport. Ofcourse ops will always have a preference, if they can get better performance or fuel savings from certain registrations, they'll probably deploy them where they get that benefit. Both of FF and FJ have been to the Canaries as much as a number of other 738s in the fleet over similar time periods after a random check. Not often admittedly, but neither has the likes of 'FW' etc. They both operate longer sectors and I myself flew onboard FJ last summer from LCA on a scraping 5 hour flight.

[chaps1954]

There is a difference from winglets and the new scimitar blades that Ryanair and TUI use which are retro fitted, very easy to tell as they point downwards as well

[FRatSTN]

Whether jet2 will ever go long haul is an open question, and one only their senior management can answer. My gut feeling is they will, eventually

I think they will eventually as well, but probably not for a good few years and not until they have their own wide-body long-haul aircraft, as opposed to just two leased A330-200s. Couldn't see them doing anything meaningful long-haul on the A321neos.

I could see a network of probably Cancun, Montego Bay, Orlando and Punta Cana principally and a few others mostly centered around BHX, MAN and STN, possibly BRS, GLA and NCL too. But it won't happen anytime soon.

[sparkie320]

i belive 737-800s of an older age can not be refitted with wing tips, of what ever design -correct me if wrong there of course
it same as the Airbus A320 some have gained winglets similar to the NEO's again certain age etc etc
also cost of fitting,

[ImagineIf]

i belive 737-800s of an older age can not be refitted with wing tips, of what ever design -correct me if wrong there of course
it same as the Airbus A320 some have gained winglets similar to the NEO's again certain age etc etc
also cost of fitting,

There is a reason FF & FJ never got the blended winglets, even had an engineer tell me but.... 🙈 I've forgotten. However, its not necessarily vintage/line number that is the reasoning. Note FD is one of the oldest -800s still operating in the world and has winglets. Not sure it will be arround long enough to get the scims mind.

[WHBM]

Setting aside for a moment a desire for fleet consistency, it is a fine decision whether to fit such winglets. They do increase cruise fuel efficiency, but also have an additional weight to be carried, so there is a calculation to be made based on route structure. Then of course they have to be bought and fitted, and the manufacturers know the numbers of what sort of savings they typically deliver, and price accordingly - there is, as with many aviation purchases, a lot of sunk R&D costs to recover.

[NBLG]

There is a reason FF & FJ never got the blended winglets, even had an engineer tell me but.... 🙈 I've forgotten. However, it’s not necessarily vintage/line number that is the reasoning. Note FD is one of the oldest -800s still operating in the world and has winglets. Not sure it will be arround long enough to get the scims mind.

I also could be mistaken, but I think those 2 ac are leased and it is something to do with the particular lessor that is preventing them being fitted? I’m sure I read that earlier in the thread. As you say, FD has winglets and is the eldest -800 in the Jet2 fleet so fitting them to older aircraft is possible.

[VickersVicount]

you'd think GLA/EDI as furthest north would have exclusively newest most fuel efficient and all scimitar (or A321neos) … but yet no… at least no 733’s!

[Kevgti]

you'd think GLA/EDI as furthest north would have exclusively newest most fuel efficient and all scimitar (or A321neos) … but yet no… at least no 733’s!

A321neos are due at EDI for summer '25, until then it's the 737-800, until the SSWs have been fitted to the majority of the fleet it will be a mix as always. 737-300s fly out of LBA normally apart from charter/extra capacity operations (6 nations rugby in Rome).

[laviation]

you'd think GLA/EDI as furthest north would have exclusively newest most fuel efficient and all scimitar (or A321neos) … but yet no… at least no 733’s!

Does not make a major difference. The 321s are better placed at MAN/BHX, where demand is generally higher.

[pug]

Does not make a major difference. The 321s are better placed at MAN/BHX, where demand is generally higher.

For now, but as deliveries ramp up would expect more bases to convert. Next year and 2026 will be the years it starts IMO.

[jethro15]

For now, but as deliveries ramp up would expect more bases to convert. Next year and 2026 will be the years it starts IMO

I agree. As far as I can make out, Jet2 have 4 A21N's due this year which can be accounted for, and were announced. The last being msn 12127

The next is msn 12295, implies to me 2025. (Others more knowledgeable in airbus production rates may be able to correct me).

As an aside, given the registration sequence for forthcoming deliveries, G-SUNN will not be utilised as it is currently a Robinson R44 helicopter. (I haven't gone any further - life's too short)

[1889LS]

G-SUNG still hasn’t moved, around a month since it’s (already significantly delayed) delivery now. Problem aircraft?

[Kevgti]

Does not make a major difference. The 321s are better placed at MAN/BHX, where demand is generally higher.
Ageed. The current A321Ns are filling the gap left by departing 757s and the lack of a 3rd A330 at MAN. Until there are significantly more A321N deliveries they won't be spread out across the bases, no point in having 1 in each base due to crewing and rostering issues.. 6 A321N are due this Jet2 FY - 2 delivered so far.

[pabely]

G-SUNG still hasn’t moved, around a month since it’s (already significantly delayed) delivery now. Problem aircraft?
Welcome to the wonderful world of Airbus!

[chaps1954]

Rather have an Airbus than a boeing

[1889LS]

Well the people who matter in the business obviously don’t see operating Rwanda flights as an issue at all, considering Michael O’Leary has come out and said he’s more than happy to use his aircraft. Maybe people can stop wetting the bed now.

[bobradamus]

🤦🏻‍♂️😂

[Brian Pern]

Well the people who matter in the business obviously don’t see operating Rwanda flights as an issue at all, considering Michael O’Leary has come out and said he’s more than happy to use his aircraft. Maybe people can stop wetting the bed now.
To be fair to the man, he excels at hostility, here's a personal favorite 'The airline industry is full of bull****ters, liars and drunks. We excel at all three in Ireland.'

[Marc Brady]

A321neos are due at EDI for summer '25, until then it's the 737-800, until the SSWs have been fitted to the majority of the fleet it will be a mix as always. 737-300s fly out of LBA normally apart from charter/extra capacity operations (6 nations rugby in Rome).

Not quite, The first NEOs are to join at EDI from November 1st 2024. EDI will be a mixed base of B738 and A21N, until then the sixth aircraft will be a B738.

[Marc Brady]

Rather have an Airbus than a boeing

Jet2s Boeings are actually very reliable compared to some of their new NEOs which has had some issues after delivery.

[Wallsendmag]

Jet2s Boeings are actually very reliable compared to some of their new NEOs which has had some issues after delivery.
Isn't that called the bath tub curve for new kit?

[1889LS]

Isn't that called the bath tub curve for new kit?

Precisely. Any aircraft will be reliable with Jet2s excellent in house maintenance.


Quite ironic as well that info elsewhere suggests G-SUNG isn’t a problem aircraft at all, and has instead been delayed by a lack of hangar space due to the 2nd hand Boeings’ service entry maintenance taking longer than expected.

[1889LS]

G-SUNG first revenue flight to lanzarote today

[Karl Denton]

Is G-VYGK covering too at the moment ? It’s done the LS919 flight today after position from Brize

Also, G-LSAK 757 been covering at Leeds for an aircraft gone tech

[azz767]

Is G-VYGK covering too at the moment ? It’s done the LS919 flight today after position from Brize

Also, G-LSAK 757 been covering at Leeds for an aircraft gone tech

I suspect GK is covering for GL as that went to brize today. AK I’m assuming as you say is covering for a LBA based a/c that’s gone tech

[irishlad06]

Is G-VYGK covering too at the moment ? It’s done the LS919 flight today after position from Brize

Also, G-LSAK 757 been covering at Leeds for an aircraft gone tech

GK here for a few weeks whilst GL has maintenance and then it’s back again in June when GL has further planned maintenance.

AK went to rescue a flight last night and has now stayed in LBA for the day to pick up another flight before positioning back to MAN later.

[H44]

I see Jet2 have delayed by 24 hours all their flights to Skiathos today due to “adverse weather”.
Adverse weather forces Jet2 to delay Skiathos flights by 24 hours (https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/adverse-weather-forces-jet2-to-delay-skiathos-flights-by-24-hours)

Seems a bit of an overreaction given other airlines seem to be operating normally, and the TAF for today looks pretty benign. Anyone got any more information?

[Flying Wild]

Forecast has rain and the runway is extremely limited when wet. Rather than gamble and have aircraft/passengers/crews out of position/hours due to a diversion, they've elected to delay by 24 hours.

[Kevgti]

Test flights for G-SUNJ (D-AZXM) yesterday 10/05, delivery shouldn't be too far away now.

[SJL26779]

Hi all does anyone know the reason for the delay on this please? Outbound A/C left on time pretty much.

Thanks
Steven

[L66MBD]

Hi all does anyone know the reason for the delay on this please? Outbound A/C left on time pretty much.

Thanks
Steven

i was an inbound easyJet flight yesterday afternoon and was delayed for ATC restrictions in Newcastle- same reason?

[VickersVicount]

odd to see a Jet2 A321 doing NCL -PIK, at start of summer season (assuming its for training). Especially in the middle of a thunderstorm !

[SWBKCB]

i was an inbound easyJet flight yesterday afternoon and was delayed for ATC restrictions in Newcastle- same reason?

Er no, it's about 20 hours late, so unlikely

[pabely]

Test flights for G-SUNJ (D-AZXM) yesterday 10/05, delivery shouldn't be too far away now.
That was 2nd test flight, 3rd was today. Subject to any snags could be any day now.

[1889LS]

G-SUNJ (d-azxm) has now had 4 test flights in Hamburg.
Previous frames only had 2 (including the customer acceptance flight) prior to delivery.

anybody know a reason for this?

[pabely]

G-SUNJ (d-azxm) has now had 4 test flights in Hamburg.
Previous frames only had 2 (including the customer acceptance flight) prior to delivery.

anybody know a reason for this?
I would guess the flight tests have shown up some snags which will need to be rectified before delivery is accepted.

[VickersVicount]

especially as one of the other new SUNx machines turned to be an early dud…

[P330]

especially as one of the other new SUNx machines turned to be an early dud…

That's interesting. What machine and what were the issues? I haven't seen anything on this....

[chaps1954]

If you mean G-SUNG I have heard it was delayed going in hangar due to the que of 738s in front that were taking long to get service ready
Anyway the old paint hangar is to be taken on by Jet2 for airbus products when they are major overhaul from 2026

[pabely]

If you mean G-SUNG I have heard it was delayed going in hangar due to the que of 738s in front that were taking long to get service ready
Anyway the old paint hangar is to be taken on by Jet2 for airbus products when they are major overhaul from 2026
Nothing like getting all your ducks in place when you are taking on a major new Product yet your older current Product is likely to need a little more attention due to it been sitting around all winter. Should Jet2 Engineering not have built extra facilities into the plan?

[P330]

G-SUNJ (d-azxm) has now had 4 test flights in Hamburg.
Previous frames only had 2 (including the customer acceptance flight) prior to delivery.

anybody know a reason for this?

Delivered into Manchester this afternoon.

[SWBKCB]

Nothing like getting all your ducks in place when you are taking on a major new Product yet your older current Product is likely to need a little more attention due to it been sitting around all winter. Should Jet2 Engineering not have built extra facilities into the plan?

Meanwhile in the real world, sh*t happens

[JonnyH]

G-JZDD getting stuck in PMI & HER with the same issue within 36 hours seems a bit of an interesting one!

[jethro15]

G-JZDD getting stuck in PMI & HER with the same issue within 36 hours seems a bit of an interesting one!
See post 1996!

[bobradamus]

See post 1996!

😂😂🫣

[JonnyH]

see post 1996!

😂😂😂😂👍🏿