Flybe-V1

[BA318]

I couldn’t agree more buddy. Don’t waste your time Flybe bashing on here - get on the blower to your IAG mates and get them to sort it out.

Not sure what that means. I’m not a fan of IAG or BA. My username was purely an interest in the BA A318 which I flew on and working at LCY at the time. Not sure why you need an attitude constantly. People are allowed to debate this topic. It’s not Flybe bashing to ask about their resources or question their techniques.

[BA318]

More complaints about Flybe emailing people. https://twitter.com/CBridge_Chief/status/1495785969739575297?s=20&t=bytZs39BTHi_i5ZTJzkfLA

this time because they don’t appear to have an EU nominated rep.

[mart901]

More complaints about Flybe emailing people. https://twitter.com/CBridge_Chief/status/1495785969739575297?s=20&t=bytZs39BTHi_i5ZTJzkfLA

this time because they don’t appear to have an EU nominated rep.

To be fair I think they just need to grow up. My inbox is flooded daily with rubbish, spam, scam emails probably like a lot of people. Hit delete and get on with life seriously.

I for one am glad to see BE coming back, naturally a bit sceptical given the amount of failures in the industry but genuinely believe there's room for them and a market for regional flying that hasn't been fully covered by other airlines since their demise.
Wish them well and I'll give them some business if the routes and prices suit.

[Albert Hall]

Jamie, your posts sound like a rant against IAG for reasons that won't be immediately obvious to most. From what I hear, Flybe has managed to screw up the Heathrow slots and I would not be at all surprised if IAG/BA are going bananas about it. I don't know the full ins and outs of the affair - but isn't it rather better to get your own glasshouse in order before throwing stones?

[Jamie2009]

I for one am glad to see BE coming back, naturally a bit sceptical given the amount of failures in the industry but genuinely believe there's room for them and a market for regional flying that hasn't been fully covered by other airlines since their demise.
Wish them well and I'll give them some business if the routes and prices suit.

Good to hear and I'm sure you'll find out more about Flybe's new services in the not to distant future.

[AirportPlanner1]

Sorry but that sounds like b*llocks - do BE really think they are going to top of the news cycle, even on a quiet day? The percentage of the public that will be flying with them is tiny, but they need to be engaging with those potential passengers and not alienating them

I think you don’t understand my point, or how these things work. I didn’t say ‘top’, that’s clear in black and white. It’s absolutely not implausible the resurrection of Flybe could make it onto the front page of the BBC news app. But that’s not the most valuable bit…it’s the things that go with it. The couple of minutes interviewed on LBC and Today, the discussion on 5live. Free publicity, national reach. It’s these that are being squeezed out at the moment by other events.

[SWBKCB]

And while you wait for your five minutes in the sun, you are missing out on the guys who need to book. And once they find an alternative, they might be gone for ever....

[cavokblues]

Interesting to read about the role of PR and having to try to predict a slow news day. It's a world I know nothing about!

What are the chances of a slow news day at the moment? Things seem to be escalating in Ukraine, once (if?) that dies down the police may come back with their findings about party gate at no 10, and you hope the Queen has a quick recovery from Covid.....

I wouldn't like to be the one deciding to pick the day to go public only to be usurped by a more newsworthy story at the last minute.....

[tictack67]

And while you wait for your five minutes in the sun, you are missing out on the guys who need to book. And once they find an alternative, they might be gone for ever....

I totally agree.

It's not as if much of this is alreasy a surprise; eh the name and the aircraft type.
I wish flybe2 well, but this is just giving the impression of dithering and does not instill any confidence just procastination

[ATNotts]

I totally agree.

It's not as if much of this is a surprise already; the name and the aircraft type.

I wish flybe2 wel, but this is just giving the impression of dithering and does not instill any confidence just procastination

The thing is that the commercial aviation bubble is similar to the Westminster bubble. Outside of their own circles people are either unaware or simply don't care. When people look to book a flight they'll simply look at the options that are laid out in front of them at the time, and choose the one that is most convenient and / or cheapest. If Flybe or even Emerald are in the drop-down of options they're at the races, if they're not well the someone else gets the booking.

That means that if, for example you're headed for a wedding in Belfast you might want to book weeks, possibly months in advance and if you tried that today Flybe would lose out. If on the other hand it's a funeral then booking any more than a week in advance would be unusual. Through all of my business travelling life I only quite rarely found myself planning a trip more than 4 weeks ahead. So yes, the earlier flights are released the more likely people are to book, but most short haul flights aren't booked that far in advance. However if Flybe don't get their booking engine up and running by 1st. March expecting to start operations at the end of March would seem a little short notice.

[AirportPlanner1]

Interesting to read about the role of PR and having to try to predict a slow news day. It's a world I know nothing about!

I wouldn't like to be the one deciding to pick the day to go public only to be usurped by a more newsworthy story at the last minute.....

No day is risk-free but risk can be managed as far as is reasonable by avoiding knowns - you wouldn’t want something out on budget day for example. It’s the same with music…January traditionally was the time to launch new acts because they’d get higher in the charts so more exposure.

[BA318]

No day is risk-free but risk can be managed as far as is reasonable by avoiding knowns - you wouldn’t want something out on budget day for example. It’s the same with music…January traditionally was the time to launch new acts because they’d get higher in the charts so more exposure.

Given it’s a pandemic, with the PM under police investigation, while the Monarch is ill and we are on the verge of a war in Europe they might as well just get it out there. It will be impossible to decide a day! No such thing as a slow news day at the moment.

[willy wombat]

I have never read such nonsense re PR. The launch of FlyBe 2 might get 30 seconds on national news, if you're lucky, regardless of how slow a news day it is. It should get a bit more coverage in the local news (TV/radio/print) in the relevant local areas - presumably Belfast and Birmingham. This will not be affected by national/international stories and any PR firm worth its salt would know this. Someone is peddling b******t. The single most important thing is to have flights available for sale and easily visible. The fact that they are not does not augur well for a start up in less than a month, unless part of the new business plan is to fly very empty aircraft.

[cavokblues]

As I stated earlier I know nothing about PR but I would perhaps have thought a decent PR team would be able to generate some sort of publicity in the right circles, irrespective of the news agenda? Surely, local news in Birmingham and Belfast would still pick up on an airline launch / relaunch even if tanks are rolling into Kiev?

I think the delay of announcing is probably more to do with other issues alluded to on here rather than the news cycle being quite busy.

[davidjohnson6]

If tanks are rolling into Kyiv... I think we may see something similiar happen to business travel as the Gulf War of 1991... namely a slump in demand along with a spike in the price of fuel. Neither are good for a nascent airline

Kuwait is about 6 or 7 hours flying from Birmingham. Ukraine is about 2h30 away

[RogueOne]

Hahahahaha, the state of some replies in here. Tanks rolling into Kviv, The Queen having Covid, The Downing St investigation. Emerald's AOC. GDPR bore-offs on Twitter. Heathrow slot drama.

What else can you conjure? The high price of milk means crew on strike because they can't have a cuppa at work?? No pilots because the RAF will conscript them all for WW3?? Increase risk of prop-strike after airports talk about using grassy areas for farm animal grazing to raise needed funds??

..If you're believing that the launch of Flybe is dependant on any of the above.... Turn off the TV, take off your tin foil hats and go for a walk. :}

[BA318]

Hahahahaha, the state of some replies in here. Tanks rolling into Kviv, The Queen having Covid, The Downing St investigation. Emerald's AOC. GDPR bore-offs on Twitter. Heathrow slot drama.

What else can you conjure? The high price of milk means crew on strike because they can't have a cuppa at work?? No pilots because the RAF will conscript them all for WW3?? Increase risk of prop-strike after airports talk about using grassy areas for farm animal grazing to raise needed funds??

..If you're believing that the launch of Flybe is dependant on any of the above.... Turn off the TV, take off your tin foil hats and go for a walk. :}

one of the excuses was that Flybe needs a clear news day. And plenty of those factors can have an effect on Flybe’s viability.

War usually has an effect on travel and subdues demand.

Emerald are a potential rival with a strong brand backing them.

GDPR rules being broken can result in fines and bad publicity early on and if they are breaking the rules it could mean they can’t use the data they have making marketing much harder.

But of course we’re told the wonder kids at Flybe are on perfect track and have everything sorted to a T with nothing to go wrong. So why worry!

[ATNotts]

one of the excuses was that Flybe needs a clear news day. And plenty of those factors can have an effect on Flybe’s viability.

GDPR rules being broken can result in fines and bad publicity early on and if they are breaking the rules it could mean they can’t use the data they have making marketing much harder.


Who says that GDPR rules have been broken? Buying the assets of the old company, including it's client database, then contacting each client on that database to establish whether they would be happy to continue receiving communications from the previous business sounds pretty above board to me. Had the database been stolen by an ex employee and handed to the new business without them having bought it as part of the purchase from administrators that would be a whole new scenario. It would seem that corporate lawyers would have been very unlikely to allow the Flybe management to infringe GDPR so early on.

The rise in fuel costs and potential retrenchment in business travel were the Ukraine situation get out of hand and spill over into central / western Europe will likely be much greater impediments to the launch and success of the business in the short term.

[bean]

Once again, as they always have on the subject of Flybe, this forum is degenerating to relentless, speculative, ill informed drivel. Wait for gods sake!!!!
As a new private company you lot are not going to be privy to profit and loss figures anyway. GIVE IT A REST

[cavokblues]

Hahahahaha, the state of some replies in here. Tanks rolling into Kviv, The Queen having Covid, The Downing St investigation. Emerald's AOC. GDPR bore-offs on Twitter. Heathrow slot drama.

What else can you conjure? The high price of milk means crew on strike because they can't have a cuppa at work?? No pilots because the RAF will conscript them all for WW3?? Increase risk of prop-strike after airports talk about using grassy areas for farm animal grazing to raise needed funds??

..If you're believing that the launch of Flybe is dependant on any of the above.... Turn off the TV, take off your tin foil hats and go for a walk. :}

I think you missed, entirely, the context of the remarks made. It was suggested the delay might be due to trying to pick a slow news day to secure some decent media time and those comments about the Queen and the tanks were made to suggest a slow news day might not be coming any time soon. Ultimately, if ops are due to start 1st April you would expect a bit more lead time then 30-ishdays.

[cavokblues]

Once again, as they always have on the subject of Flybe, this forum is degenerating to relentless, speculative, ill informed drivel. Wait for gods sake!!!!
As a new private company you lot are not going to be privy to profit and loss figures anyway. GIVE IT A REST

It's a forum about airlines, airports and routes. Discussion about new airlines and speculation is part of it. You don't have to be privy to P&L figures to have an interest in it and want to chat about it.

[BA318]

Who says that GDPR rules have been broken? Buying the assets of the old company, including it's client database, then contacting each client on that database to establish whether they would be happy to continue receiving communications from the previous business sounds pretty above board to me. Had the database been stolen by an ex employee and handed to the new business without them having bought it as part of the purchase from administrators that would be a whole new scenario. It would seem that corporate lawyers would have been very unlikely to allow the Flybe management to infringe GDPR so early on.

The rise in fuel costs and potential retrenchment in business travel were the Ukraine situation get out of hand and spill over into central / western Europe will likely be much greater impediments to the launch and success of the business in the short term.

Nobody said they did. I just said the effect it could have if it were found to be true. Corporate lawyers can also make mistakes. Otherwise there wouldn’t be half the fines and issues there are not would there be a need for such regulators if all companies followed the rules.

[BA318]

Once again, as they always have on the subject of Flybe, this forum is degenerating to relentless, speculative, ill informed drivel. Wait for gods sake!!!!
As a new private company you lot are not going to be privy to profit and loss figures anyway. GIVE IT A REST

Don’t read it if you’re not interested. It’s a forum about commercial aviation not a news site. It’s designed for discussion.

[AirportPlanner1]

I think you missed, entirely, the context of the remarks made. It was suggested the delay might be due to trying to pick a slow news day to secure some decent media time and those comments about the Queen and the tanks were made to suggest a slow news day might not be coming any time soon. Ultimately, if ops are due to start 1st April you would expect a bit more lead time then 30-ishdays.

My comment about PR certainly got people riled, and it was clear they hadn’t read what I had actually said.

So here’s some more dynamite…the world has changed (for now). People aren’t booking in advance, they are booking late. If you don’t believe me, and the raft of new routes at short notice from airlines across Europe isn’t evidence enough, pop down to your local theatre and ask how sales are going for a show next month and how many are coming to the show tonight.

[Wallsendmag]

Who says that GDPR rules have been broken? Buying the assets of the old company, including it's client database, then contacting each client on that database to establish whether they would be happy to continue receiving communications from the previous business sounds pretty above board to me.
Well it isn't

[bean]

This is not a discussion. It's mindless drivel by a group 9f spotters.
i know who to take seriously in this thread. Four or five people

[ATNotts]

It is. It's perfectly legal.

Stop being so butthurt.

Be glad a company is taking its role as a data protector seriously. Remind us again how much BA was fined by the ICO for serious GDPR breaches?
It's a shame some people let their prejudices get in the way of the facts.

[BA318]

This is not a discussion. It's mindless drivel by a group 9f spotters.
i know who to take seriously in this thread. Four or five people

Don’t read it then. It’s no more mindless than someone moaning about it.

[bean]

Ba318. It's because i have a well functioning mind that i'm able to judge m8ndlessnes very well
This site is the proffessiom pilots rumour networlk. There is very little news or rumour posted here. I'm not going to rehash my previous comments Just look in the mirror

[BA318]

Ba318. It's because i have a well functioning mind that i'm able to judge m8ndlessnes very well
This site is the proffessiom pilots rumour networlk. There is very little news or rumour posted here. I'm not going to rehash my previous comments Just look in the mirror

Well functioning mind doesn’t extend to correct spelling or punctuation I see. Enjoy your evening.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Ba318. It's because i have a well functioning mind that i'm able to judge m8ndlessnes very well
This site is the proffessiom pilots rumour networlk. There is very little news or rumour posted here. I'm not going to rehash my previous comments Just look in the mirror
You failed to even spell "professional" and "network". So get off your high horse, truth be told GDPR does have some grey areas, and any complaint may well succeed. Having had to deal with the legislation, we always erred on the side of caution, these guys have not. That's not to say I think they're breaking the rules, that's to say only the lawyers will win in the end if a case is raised.

[TartinTon]

You failed to even spell "professional" and "network". So get off your high horse, truth be told GDPR does have some grey areas, and any complaint may well succeed. Having had to deal with the legislation, we always erred on the side of caution, these guys have not. That's not to say I think they're breaking the rules, that's to say only the lawyers will win in the end if a case is raised.

Rubbish. They've inherited a database and have done the right thing by not sending unsolicited messaging but ASKING if the recipients wish to receive anything or want to opt out. Nothing wrong with that.

[SWBKCB]

"Inherited"? How quaint. Thought they were a fresh start, totally seperate entity?

Might actually be worth reading what was said at #1280

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Rubbish. They've inherited a database and have done the right thing by not sending unsolicited messaging but ASKING if the recipients wish to receive anything or want to opt out. Nothing wrong with that.
Do they have consent to market? No.
Can they ask? Grey area, it's not "rubbish", it's just not super clear what's "reasonable". IMHO and presumably their lawyers, it's legal but it's not good practice and among data marketeers it's rightly frowned upon. It's basically a cold email from a bankrupt business from two years ago who may well owe you money (except it's an all new business when it suits them to be and legally they don't)!

https://www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk/content/data-protection-when-buying-marketing-databases
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-sell-customer-data-under-gdpr-i-chu-chao

[davidjohnson6]

Oil prices have jumped a fair bit today, and quiet news days aren't on the immediate horizon

[TartinTon]

"Inherited"? How quaint. Thought they were a fresh start, totally seperate entity?

Might actually be worth reading what was said at #1280

They are. It just happens that they bought some liquidated assets from the administrators including the marketing database. If they were called Brum air would your opinion be the same? They clealy feel there is some value in the brand and that's why they've bought it.

[SWBKCB]

Yes - its not the name I've got an issue with, but the way the situation has been engineered to get out of paying the money they owe. Yes, I know it's legal, yes I know it business but doesn't make it right.

The flip flopping between "Hey, we are back" and "no connection, fresh start" when it suits is just irritating in the grand scheme of things.

[RogueOne]

...but the way the situation has been engineered to get out of paying the money they owe. Yes, I know it's legal, yes I know it business but doesn't make it right.

The flip flopping between "Hey, we are back" and "no connection, fresh start" when it suits is just irritating in the grand scheme of things.

...to get out of paying the money they owe?? := Fbe Realisations Ltd (Old Flybe) owe the money. Not this newly named Flybe (Old Thyme Opco Ltd) But yes, they engineered a global pandemic to go out of business and make thousands redundant.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02769768

All Thyme Opco did was purchase the Flybe name, and a bit of intellectual property. There was no airline. They had to create one. It's a brand new entity. New AOC, new approvals, new licenses.

..and whilst you might wax lyrically about the owner/investor of the Flybe1 v Flybe2... let's not forget what year they actually bought Flybe1 (along with Stobart and Virgin) and the ****show they inherited, after decades of incompetence. The damage had been done by then.

But carry on grinding that axe.

[SWBKCB]

But carry on grinding that axe.

Yes - will do, and you just read again what you've just written...

[UnderASouthernSky]

...to get out of paying the money they owe?? := Fbe Realisations Ltd (Old Flybe) owe the money. Not this newly named Flybe (Old Thyme Opco Ltd) But yes, they engineered a global pandemic to go out of business and make thousands redundant.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02769768

All Thyme Opco did was purchase the Flybe name, and a bit of intellectual property. There was no airline. They had to create one. It's a brand new entity. New AOC, new approvals, new licenses.

..and whilst you might wax lyrically about the owner/investor of the Flybe1 v Flybe2... let's not forget what year they actually bought Flybe1 (along with Stobart and Virgin) and the ****show they inherited, after decades of incompetence. The damage had been done by then.

But carry on grinding that axe.

Many people would be surprised to hear anyone think that the pandemic was the reason for Flybe1 to go out of business.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

All Thyme Opco did was purchase the Flybe name, and a bit of intellectual property. There was no airline. They had to create one. It's a brand new entity. New AOC, new approvals, new licenses.
In insolation you're 100% correct. Legally and technically right. But let's add some details.
They also seem to have bought the LHR slots which given the charging regime will be nigh on impossible to turn a profit on. The name they bought was a failed business which collapsed in a mess owing a lot of people money they'll never see. So it's a fair criticism to say that's maybe a mistake. Any other name and we'd not be having this conversation. Add to the fact the new flybe are marketing this, in their words as a "return" and a "relaunch". So they're trying to have this both ways. It's that bit I am finding somewhat dishonest and disreputable. Making deals on the one hand with out of pocket handling agents and airports saying "we're all brand new and no relation to old flybe" and then saying to the public "look it's flybe, we're back again".

It leaves a bad taste.

[kcockayne]

In insolation you're 100% correct. Legally and technically right. But let's add some details.
They also seem to have bought the LHR slots which given the charging regime will be nigh on impossible to turn a profit on. The name they bought was a failed business which collapsed in a mess owing a lot of people money they'll never see. So it's a fair criticism to say that's maybe a mistake. Any other name and we'd not be having this conversation. Add to the fact the new flybe are marketing this, in their words as a "return" and a "relaunch". So they're trying to have this both ways. It's that bit I am finding somewhat dishonest and disreputable. Making deals on the one hand with out of pocket handling agents and airports saying "we're all brand new and no relation to old flybe" and then saying to the public "look it's flybe, we're back again".

It leaves a bad taste.
Can't find anything to criticise in what Skipness has said. All very underhand by the "new Flybe", in my opinion.

[Gurnard]

Can't find anything to criticise in what Skipness has said. All very underhand by the "new Flybe", in my opinion.
I endorse those comments too. Nothing against those who are seeking employment in aviation in these difficult times, but Skipness has hit the nail on the head perfectly.

[jethro15]

1321 posts on this subject. Then:
"Making deals on the one hand with out of pocket handling agents and airports saying "we're all brand new and no relation to old flybe" and then saying to the public "look it's flybe, we're back again"
Sums this whole thread in a nutshell!

One thing I do not understand, (Please forgive my ignorance) Is why the insistence of keeping the amended 'Purple' a/c livery? Brand new airline, but relying on our predecessors brand....Odd

[Jamesair1]

They must have calculated that it has a commercial or marketing value.

[Wallsendmag]

Shouldn't there be a new FlyBE2 thread linked to the old one in a loose way?

[ATNotts]

Better might be those who disagree with the way UK corporate law works and wish to use this thread to vent their frustration about it open a Jet Blast thread to do so?

[bean]

Better might be those who disagree with the way UK corporate law works and wish to use this thread to vent their frustration about it open a Jet Blast thread to do so?
Well said. Same repetetive nonsense over, and over, and over again

[GeekPilot]

Agree. Take the twaddle to JB and let the adults talk here. Or rename this thread “Flybe Realisations Ltd” and we’ll have a new thread called Flybe.

Maybe if people say it again it’ll get through some thick skulls. So many agendas here.

[davidjohnson6]

I'm hearing that a Flybe announcement should be before month end but probably not this week - so that rather points towards Monday 28th! In the same snippet, I'd also heard there was some issue with the Heathrow slots but don't profess to know exactly what.

Albert - do you happen to know the new date for the Flybe announcement ? I can't see anything on Google - I'm guessing that if Flybe had made an announcement, this would have been picked up somewhere. No, I'm not trying to be snarky - just would like to know when to keep an eye on the press for a Flybe announcement

[Albert Hall]

I haven't heard anything more about an announcement timeline but it obviously now isn't today!

I did get sent a list of routes based on their slots at BHX and MAN though, just trying to find out if it's OK to post it.

[ATNotts]

I haven't heard anything more about an announcement timeline but it obviously now isn't today!

I did get sent a list of routes based on their slots at BHX and MAN though, just trying to find out if it's OK to post it.
FR24 was showing 4 local sorties (BHX-BHX) for this morning none of which seems to have happened. Perhaps press demo flights?

These are different from the normal pattern of training flights which operate e.g BHX-LPL-CWL-BHX. Today's non-ops all had BEExxT flight numbers.

[SWBKCB]

FR24 was showing 4 local sorties (BHX-BHX) for this morning none of which seems to have happened. Perhaps press demo flights?

These are different from the normal pattern of training flights which operate e.g BHX-LPL-CWL-BHX. Today's non-ops all had BEExxT flight numbers.

A number of circuits flown at BHX this morning.

[ATNotts]

A number of circuits flown at BHX this morning.
That will teach me for taking FR24 at face value!

[OltonPete]

That will teach me for taking FR24 at face value!

There were 6 flights lists showing last night with callsigns BEE21T to 26T and I thought the same whether it was going to be PR related.

In the end all six actually operated but 5 without a callsign on FR24, which I think confused it and it certainly did on one of the local arrivals site which only showed the one operating with the flight number and still does.

In the meantime nothing bookable on the EI website for BHD - BHX, MAN etc from the end of March. BHX - BHD is offered at the end of March on Loganair and BA - I jest not BHX-ABZ-LHR-BHD :eek:

Pete

[davidjohnson6]

Having a bit of a bleak thought... are Flybe definitely going to launch ? One of the first lessons in finance is not to get emotionally involved and ignore what's already been spent. When appraising a project, ignore what's already happened as it can't be changed; think only of what cash needs to be committed in the future, and what return you expect on that yet-to-be-committed cash. If you expect a project to be a loss maker, it may be better just not to start the project at all and hand money back to lenders and investors... aka cut your losses instead of sinking further. A hedge fund will likely be very much aware of this concept

[ATNotts]

Having a bit of a bleak thought... are Flybe definitely going to launch ? One of the first lessons in finance is not to get emotionally involved and ignore what's already been spent. When appraising a project, ignore what's already happened as it can't be changed; think only of what cash needs to be committed in the future, and what return you expect on that yet-to-be-committed cash. If you expect a project to be a loss maker, it may be better just not to start the project at all and hand money back to lenders and investors... aka cut your losses instead of sinking further. A hedge fund will likely be very much aware of this concept

It looks very much to me as though the launch has been delayed probably due to uncertainties around the war situation, fuel prices, and the effects on the domestic and European economy. As you quite rightly say, if venture capitalists and hedge funds can't see a return on their investments they will cut and run.

Hope for the sake of all those who have taken up employment with them that we're wrong.

[bean]

Why oh why oh why does this daily nonsense have to continue. None of you know what's happening. For christs sake stop speculating and WAIT

[cavokblues]

Why oh why oh why does this daily nonsense have to continue. None of you know what's happening. For christs sake stop speculating and WAIT

It's a rumour network for goodness sake. If you don't like speculation and rumour then I think you might need to browse a different forum.

[RogueOne]

..are Flybe definitely going to launch ?

Yes. Just have some patience.

[Alteagod]

Guys guys guys keep your hair on. This is a RUMOUR network. Its not the gospel word of god. Its a talking shop for ideas, thoughts, notions, rumours and ruminating. What will be will be with Flybe.

[Local Variation]

Guys guys guys keep your hair on. This is a RUMOUR network. Its not the gospel word of god. Its a talking shop for ideas, thoughts, notions, rumours and ruminating. What will be will be with Flybe.

Think the recent points being made are that the rumours and speculation in here have an underlying negative repetitive theme to them.

[jethro15]

Post No 1342...................This thread is now akin to airline passengers who, when given the reason for the delay to their flight, proceed to tell friends, family and media that they were never given any information. What they actually mean is ‘I was not told what I wanted to hear!’

[SWBKCB]

Think the recent points being made are that the rumours and speculation in here have an underlying negative repetitive theme to them.

Nature abhors a vacuum...

All the previous press releases talk of a launch in early 2022, so when nothing has been heard from BE by the start of March, hardly surprising that there is comment/speculation

Flybe will serve key regions across the UK and EU with operations scheduled to begin in early 2022.

Press Release - Flybe announces new Birmingham Headquarters and First Crew Base (https://p1ainaz1aukwstore.z35.web.core.windows.net/Flybe_announces_new_Birmingham_Headquarters_and_First_Crew_B ase.pdf)

[Albert Hall]

The update I was given based on the slot information is below. I guess the start date plus any of the stuff below could easily change. On top of the health warning that this can and probably will change, this only covers flying at slot constrained UK airports so omits plans to fly between airports that aren't slot restricted. So if BHD-LPL, BHD-CWL etc etc are in the plan, they won't be listed here.

Birmingham-Paris CDG 1 x daily from 31 March (covering a W pattern also)

Birmingham-Belfast City 3 x daily from 31 March

Birmingham-Edinburgh 2 x daily from 28 July, increasing to 3 x daily from 18 August and to 4 x daily from 15 September

Birmingham-Glasgow 2 x daily from 28 July, increasing to 3 x daily from 18 August

Birmingham-Isle of Man 1 x daily from 18 August

Birmingham-Jersey 1 x weekly (Saturday) from 9 July to 17 September

Manchester-Belfast City 2 x daily from 7 July, increasing to 3 x daily from 28 July and 4 x daily from 25 August

Manchester-Southampton 2 x daily from 21 July

[adfly]

The update I was given based on the slot information is below. I guess the start date plus any of the stuff below could easily change. On top of the health warning that this can and probably will change, this only covers flying at slot constrained UK airports so omits plans to fly between airports that aren't slot restricted. So if BHD-LPL, BHD-CWL etc etc are in the plan, they won't be listed here.

Birmingham-Paris CDG 1 x daily from 31 March (covering a W pattern also)

Birmingham-Belfast City 3 x daily from 31 March - Emerald (details tbc) + easyJet to BFS

Birmingham-Edinburgh 2 x daily from 28 July, increasing to 3 x daily from 18 August and to 4 x daily from 15 September - easyJet

Birmingham-Glasgow 2 x daily from 28 July, increasing to 3 x daily from 18 August - easyJet

Birmingham-Isle of Man 1 x daily from 18 August - Loganair

Birmingham-Jersey 1 x weekly (Saturday) from 9 July to 17 September - Blue Islands and Jet2

Manchester-Belfast City 2 x daily from 7 July, increasing to 3 x daily from 28 July and 4 x daily from 25 August - Emerald (details tbc) + easyJet to BFS

Manchester-Southampton 2 x daily from 21 July - Eastern
I'd hedge bets on the CDG w-pattern being CDG-SOU. It is the busiest ex. Flybe route still unserved from Southampton.

Also, as per my bold comments in the quote, that's a lot of competition straight from the off...

[jethro15]

There are far more qualified folk on this forum than I to work this out, but can the schedule provided by 'Albert Hall' be covered by the following?

G-JEJX Currently undertaking training flights
G-JECY Currently at EXT (Since 07 Jan on mx before being registered 10 Feb - Not flown since)
G-JECP Currently at Wheeze since 15 Jun 20. Now in new Flybe Livery (Not yet registered)

[Albert Hall]

I also thought it was more than likely to be CDG-SOU but didn't have any basis beyond my thoughts on which to suggest it. And yes this does seem to be picking a fight in almost every possible direction.

Apparently they've been rather crass in managing their slots by trying to disguise what they're up to but using the old Flybe flight numbers for each new route which then makes their plans pretty obvious. If they wanted secrecy then that's a schoolboy error.

[JobsaGoodun]

Given the slot waivers that have been in place due to COVID, couldn’t they just be holding their historic slots in the same way as they have since the Administration?

It wouldn’t surprise me if they’re playing around to keep us all guessing.

[davidjohnson6]

It wouldn’t surprise me if they’re playing around to keep us all guessing.
Albert Hall's inferred route/schedule looks plausible - but there are plenty of other people reading this who are more expert than me
It's realtively easy to fake some minor detail in a system, but those who try to disguise things heavily by putting very false information in record systems usually have a hard time both covering their tracks *and* making their tracks look plausible.
In other words, you can sometimes get away with one fib, but lying repeatedly in a credible way is difficult
When large amounts of fake info appear, there is usually something which doesn't pass a smell test and people start asking questions
There are more than enough people on this website and the Internet who will cast their eye over public airline info for a large set of porkies to remain hidden for long

[RogueOne]

It's relatively easy to fake some minor detail in a system,
Those who try to disguise things heavily by putting very false information in record systems usually have a hard time both covering their tracks *and* making their tracks look plausible.
You can sometimes get away with one fib, but lying repeatedly in a credible way is difficult
When large amounts of fake info appear, there is usually something which doesn't pass a smell test and people start asking questions
There are more than enough people on this website and the Internet who will cast their eye over public airline info for a large set of porkies to remain hidden for long


Give it a rest mate, you're a broken record, poorly glued back together and broken again. Have you been giving misinformation fake news lessons to Putin?

So you're suggesting the slots and routes in the system filed and booked with airports and Eurocontrol, the new handling agent engaged & founded and all the employees hired & training conducted, head office moved and established, 2x new bases, a website that's built (but not live), 2 aircraft registered with more on the way, MRO services agreed.. etc etc etc - is all for show? 😂😂

Log off for a while, eh!

[willy wombat]

I’m strictly neutral in this debate but please could someone from the “pro Flybe faction” give a sensible explanation as to why flights are not on sale if the start date is still late March?

[ATNotts]

I’m strictly neutral in this debate but please could someone from the “pro Flybe faction” give a sensible explanation as to why flights are not on sale if the start date is still late March?

I wouldn't class myself as part of the "pro Flybe faction" (you may choose to but I consider myself a fairly neutral outsider). However there are two, partially linked issues that may be delaying any start. First fuel prices, and second the Russia/Ukraine situation. Both could impact a start up quite badly and perhaps a short delay may be seen as beneficial.

[jmdavies86]

Birmingham-Belfast City 3 x daily from 31 March

Manchester-Belfast City 2 x daily from 7 July, increasing to 3 x daily from 28 July and 4 x daily from 25 August

According to Twitter (@SeanM1997 (https://twitter.com/SeanM1997)), Emerald have now placed x6 routes from BHD on sale for S22 (inc. BHX & MAN). Both are due to start at the end of this month (BHX - 20th; MAN - 27th).

I can only assume that they've successfully obtained their UK AOC, which is a lot earlier than expected as I'd read that it was due to happen sometime in June...?

Wonder how this will change things for Flybe now...

[RogueOne]

According to Twitter (@SeanM1997 (https://twitter.com/SeanM1997)), Emerald have now placed x6 routes from BHD on sale for S22 (inc. BHX & MAN). Both are due to start at the end of this month (BHX - 20th; MAN - 27th).
I can only assume that they've successfully obtained their UK AOC, which is a lot earlier than expected as I'd read that it was due to happen sometime in June...?


You're in the wrong thread. You want the Emerald one.

Also see this post regarding their UK AOC.... it's not expected until the summer.

https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/636379-emerald-airlines-5.html#post11180748

[Albert Hall]

I thought his question was a reasonable one - how does Emerald going on sale change things for Flybe's plans. It's on the right thread as far as I can see?

[jmdavies86]

You're in the wrong thread. You want the Emerald one.

As Albert suggests, my question is/was about how this development with Emerald might affect Flybe - I merely provided the information to give some context, so I respectfully disagree that I'm in/on the wrong thread.

I was also aware that Emerald were not expected to get their UK AOC until the summer, however they must have been granted it now because they wouldn't be able to start marketing/selling seats on domestic flights within the UK that are due to start at the end of this month if they don't have one - I've not read/seen any kind of press release or news article to suggest anything has happened, hence I was surprised - I agree though that this particular part probably should (and will!) get discussed in the Emerald thread.

[RogueOne]

They must have been granted it now because they wouldn't be able to start marketing/selling seats on domestic flights within the UK that are due to start at the end of this month if they don't have one

Unless as per their press release (https://www.emeraldairlines.com/article/emerald-airlines-and-aer-lingus-announce-accelerated-plans-for-launch-of-regional-routes) the flights are operated by Aer Lingus Regional.

Every time your brain has a thought, you don't need to open your laptop and type it on pprune. Do a bit of research first.

[southamptonavgeek]

Unless as per their press release (https://www.emeraldairlines.com/article/emerald-airlines-and-aer-lingus-announce-accelerated-plans-for-launch-of-regional-routes) the flights are operated by Aer Lingus Regional. Do a bit of research first.

Their flights are not operated by Aer Lingus Regional, as that is not a licenced airline (merely a brand name). If you had read the press release, you would see that the flights will be operated by Emerald.

[bean]

Their flights are not operated by Aer Lingus Regional, as that is not a licenced airline (merely a brand name). If you had read the press release, you would see that the flights will be operated by Emerald.
They can't operate the flights as they have neither AOC or operating licence. I checked the CAA website. It's called engaging brain before mouth

[RogueOne]

Their flights are not operated by Aer Lingus Regional, as that is not a licenced airline (merely a brand name). If you had read the press release, you would see that the flights will be operated by Emerald.

However you badge it, franchise it, operate it, the point remains that Emerald don't have an AOC and so they're having to get Lingus involved. & Lingus will want a slice of that pie.

🤑

[jmdavies86]

Unless as per their press release (https://www.emeraldairlines.com/article/emerald-airlines-and-aer-lingus-announce-accelerated-plans-for-launch-of-regional-routes) the flights are operated by Aer Lingus Regional.

Every time your brain has a thought, you don't need to open your laptop and type it on pprune. Do a bit of research first.

Perhaps you could be so kind to point out where within that press release it makes any reference to them launching flights from/to BHD...?!

[Albert Hall]

I'd heard it said that the new CEO in Flybe had something of a way about him but it's clearly also contagious.

Latest I'm getting is that start of flying delayed until 11 April at the earliest and may go back further. Delay related to finalising schedules based on uncertainty over slots although that bit is third hand news.

[Atlantic Explorer]

I'd heard it said that the new CEO in Flybe had something of a way about him but it's clearly also contagious.

Latest I'm getting is that start of flying delayed until 11 April at the earliest and may go back further. Delay related to finalising schedules based on uncertainty over slots although that bit is third hand news.

Blimey, hope they’ve got deep pockets. That’s a fair bit of cash burn before the money starts coming in. They’re going to be a little late to the party by then I would say.

[SealinkBF]

An article in the Independent today. Doesn't really say anything more.

Flybe: what is happening with the resurrected regional airline? (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/flybe-what-is-happening-with-the-resurrected-regional-airline/ar-AAUBt7v?ocid=entnewsntp)

[SWBKCB]

Members of Flybe’s new team are:

Philip Saunders, chief commercial officer.
Saunders has held senior leadership roles in commercial, sales, marketing, and distribution at seven other airlines in the UK and around the world including British Airways, Deutsche BA, SN Brussels Airlines, Caribbean Airlines, Air Malta, Kuwait Airways, and South African Airways. In addition to leading highly successful commercial transformations at these various national airlines, he was also a senior executive at Travelport in the travel technology industry.

John Jackson, chief operations and customer service officer.
Jackson will be responsible for delivering operational excellence and world-class customer service across the airline by leading Flybe’s Airports, Flight Operations, Cabin Crew, People, and IT teams. He brings with him more than 30 years of industry experience having held previous senior roles with Continental, United Airlines, dnata, and Ravn Air Group in Alaska.

Ron Karger, chief technical officer.
Karger has more than 32 years experience in aviation maintenance and technical operations with previous roles including senior leadership positions at Air Canada Jazz, WestJet, WestJet Encore, and Pacific Coastal Airlines. As the director of maintenance at Encore, he oversaw the airline’s growth from start-up status to a fleet with forty-two Dash 8-400 aircraft.

Jim Comer, director of finance.
Comer is a chartered management accountant with 20 years experience in the aviation industry. Involved with the previous Flybe Ltd. since 2001, he has held roles in Treasury, FP&A, and Finance Business partnering, and he also played an important role in several pivotal projects including the acquisition and integration of BA Connect in 2007, the successful listing of Flybe on the London Stock Exchange in 2010, and the successful sale of Flybe’s business and assets in April 2021 to Cyrus Capital Partners L.P.

CEO, Dave Pflieger, said of the new additions: “We are extremely excited to have such accomplished industry leaders joining Flybe’s management team. Each one brings a wealth of professional experience and knowledge that will prove invaluable as we look to launch the new Flybe, but also create a strong community focused airline that people love.”


https://www.thebusinessdesk.com/westmidlands/news/2061058-flybe-reveals-new-senior-leadership-team-as-it-prepares-for-birmingham-take-off

[LGS6753]

UK Aviation News are speculating on a May launch:
https://ukaviation.news/flybe-2-0-starts-cabin-crew-recruitment-ahead-of-possible-may-launch/

[Wallsendmag]

UK Aviation News are speculating on a May launch:
https://ukaviation.news/flybe-2-0-starts-cabin-crew-recruitment-ahead-of-possible-may-launch/
Doesn't actually say which May though

[TartinTon]

Given the recent announcements and recruitment activity my money is on a late March sales launch flying late April

[Albert Hall]

I’d given up posting the updates I kept getting on start dates as there were so many of them. Latest news seems in line with that suggestion, announcement on Wednesday for flying from late April. Issues with slots apparently at the root of the deferrals and the person dealing with this has left - not sure if that’s the cause of the problems or a consequence of them.

[Winston Fumble]

I sincerely hope for those who’ve already been recruited, the airline actually starts operating very soon, there must a huge amount of cash flowing out of the coffers at present, one assumes the owners must have very deep pockets. Good luck.

[Jamesair1]

Whether the start date is April/May, they need to get on with announcing routes and getting reservations in, otherwise they will be flying a lot of empty planes around and draining the coffers

[BusterHot]

Flymaybe 2.0

[BA318]

Rumours online tonight that they will announce Leeds-London Heathrow. Even BA dropped that in a time when they were slot sitting a lot of routes.

[allan1987]

Rumours online tonight that they will announce Leeds-London Heathrow. Even BA dropped that in a time when they were slot sitting a lot of routes.

looks to be BHD-LHR, BHD-LBA and LHR-LBA!

[Sharklet7]

looks to be BHD-LHR, BHD-LBA and LHR-LBA!

On BHD to LHR Given the competition and capacity provided by Aer Lingus and British Airways, is there demand or scope for a third operator on the route?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The ONLY reason BA flew LHR-LBA was to connect to long haul. Flying a Q400 into LHR with no BA codeshare with the cost regime at LHR vs. rail is insane. If this is true, it's desperate stuff.

[willy wombat]

IF these are true it would confirm my often stated opinion that Flybe 2 is very much a slot play.

[BHD2BFS]

Seems like a big risk to go against BA and EI on what is their territory. They would need to have a lot of code shares. I'm sure most passengers travelling to LHR have a lot of luggage that could be very restrictive on a Dash. And for those business passengers im sure they would much rather the comfort of an Airbus

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

IF these are true it would confirm my often stated opinion that Flybe 2 is very much a slot play.
100% this. Lot of people being taken for a ride here, they're simply going to damage BA and EI with no business case to make money on their own then drop both routes as soon as they can flog off the slots.

[Alteagod]

And in disruption they have no agreement with BA to swop passengers onto BA. Its a cynical slot game. Those slots are worth so much more than the revenue from 20 or 30 passengers per flight.

[biddedout]

100% this. Lot of people being taken for a ride here, they're simply going to damage BA and EI with no business case to make money on their own then drop both routes as soon as they can flog off the slots.

I don't see how it affects EI, these are UK domestic routes. Why is it so unreasonable for a UK carriers to apply for and hold slots into the major UK hub, just like domestic carriers are able to link into the global hubs in other Countries. Why is this always seen as some kind of underhand Scam?

[Asturias56]

Because a) these slot shave real value and b) they're used to support anti-competitive behaviour

[BA318]

I don't see how it affects EI, these are UK domestic routes. Why is it so unreasonable for a UK carriers to apply for and hold slots into the major UK hub, just like domestic carriers are able to link into the global hubs in other Countries. Why is this always seen as some kind of underhand Scam?

EI operate from Belfast to London and have done for years.

[biddedout]

True but surely this should now be done by EI (UK) using their own crews in G- reg machines controlled from their UK subsidiary.

[Shamrock350]

True but surely this should now be done by EI (UK) using their own crews in G- reg machines controlled from their UK subsidiary.

Aer Lingus have seemingly found a workaround for this. When the rules changed on 1 January 2020, the BHD-LHR service was allowed to continue on certain EI registered aircraft as a wet lease with British Airways. They were even able to step in following the collapse of Stobart and have continued to operate domestically from BHD to LHR, MAN and EDI.

Aer Lingus is either still operating this wet lease for British Airways at BHD or has found a more permanent solution without having to re-register some of their A320s. We can assume this same deal will be in place for Emerald until they secure their UK AOC later in the year.

Ryanair was caught out trying to use this same ‘flag of convenience’ tactic with their Ryanair UK subsidiary. The problem for Ryanair was they planned to have just a token aircraft registered to the UK and would then wet lease the remaining aircraft from its other subsidiaries. This meant the majority of RUK flying was under foreign registered aircraft, the CAA put a stop to it.

Aer Lingus didn’t have this problem wet leasing to British Airways because it didn’t impact the majority of BA flying.

[bean]

OH I GIVE UP!!!!!
Easyjet operate Austrian registered aircraft in and out of the UK on a regular basis. They also used Easyjet Swiss aircrafr before and since Brexit.
Who cares anyway

[The96er]

OH I GIVE UP!!!!!
Easyjet operate Austrian registered aircraft in and out of the UK on a regular basis. They also used Easyjet Swiss aircrafr before and since Brexit.
Who cares anyway

EasyJet Europe/Swiss do not operate UK - UK or UK to non EU routes. That’s the difference.

[TartinTon]

100% this. Lot of people being taken for a ride here, they're simply going to damage BA and EI with no business case to make money on their own then drop both routes as soon as they can flog off the slots.
Give me strength...I'll say this slowly so the hard of thinking can get it....They can't sell the slots. I'll say that again....They can't sell the slots. That's right, the slots are not and never will be theirs to sell as they are remedy slots and would be returned to BA.

They can, however, be held onto and utilised and become part of the enterprise value to any prospective buyer of the company.

Get the picture now?

[bean]

EasyJet Europe/Swiss do not operate UK - UK or UK to non EU routes. That’s the difference.
WRONG
Easyjet Swiss can operate any Easyjet route with their aircraft. When it arrives in the UK from Switzerland can operate 2 sectors on behalf 9f Easyjet UK or Easyjet Europe. The costs are picked up by whichever Easyjet company is the lessee

[SWBKCB]

Give me strength...I'll say this slowly so the hard of thinking can get it....They can't sell the slots. I'll say that again....They can't sell the slots. That's right, the slots are not and never will be theirs to sell as they are remedy slots and would be returned to BA.



Is there not a time limit after which they become their's, if they are still being used?

[The96er]

Is there not a time limit after which they become their's, if they are still being used?

Yes there is. I think it was 6 consecutive season (I stand to be corrected). I don't recall LBA being one of the remedy routes though (Assuming they are to start LHR-LBA). Although, I seem to remember the Heathrow authority holding slots back for domestic routes now that we've left the E.U. I assume this is where Loganair have gained their slots for IOM.

[globetrotter79]

Is there not a time limit after which they become their's, if they are still being used?

By the letter of the remedy agreement - no, never. The slots would always be BA's and if the remedy operator ever ceased to use them for whatever reason they would revert to BA.
The rules stated that after 6 consecutive seasons the operator had the freedom to use the slots for routes other than Aberdeen and Edinburgh.
(Old) flybe allegedly attempted to legally test the ownership question, no doubt new flybe are doing the same...

There is also the question whether or not new flybe's use of the slots will be seen as a continuation of old flybe's use - in other words whether they are released from having to operate Aberdeen and Edinburgh for the 6 seasons. The fact that there are persistent rumours about other flybe Heathrow routes about to be announced might indicate that they've reached agreement at least on that element (or would like the market to believe they have)?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

OH I GIVE UP!!!!!
Easyjet operate Austrian registered aircraft in and out of the UK on a regular basis. They also used Easyjet Swiss aircrafr before and since Brexit.
Who cares anyway
The CAA regulators care. I thought you were a pilot?
Give me strength...I'll say this slowly so the hard of thinking can get it....They can't sell the slots. I'll say that again....They can't sell the slots. That's right, the slots are not and never will be theirs to sell as they are remedy slots and would be returned to BA.
They can, however, be held onto and utilised and become part of the enterprise value to any prospective buyer of the company.
Get the picture now?
I understand that IMHO flybe will never make money operating LHR-BHD/LBA on their own merits in those markets. So the slot play only works if BA buy flybe? This seems remote in the extreme, and so the new flybe will be flying aircraft and crews on loss making routes for an extended period, from day one with no path to profitability, on LHR-LBA/BHD/EDI/ABZ due to there being a better offering in market (ABZ/EDI/BHD) or no market worth serving (LHR-LBA that doesn't feed long haul).

[bean]

Skipness. A good example of not being able to absorb information ih the fact that you think i said i was a pilot!!!
The CAA don't care as they are clearly party to the arrangements

[BA318]

Skipness. A good example of not being able to absorb information ih the fact that you think i said i was a pilot!!!
The CAA don't care as they are clearly party to the arrangements

Please give it a rest with the unnecessary aggressive and rude comments. Everyone else is able to disagree and put their points across without it.

If the investors think they will get a return on their investment flying Q400s from Leeds to Heathrow then good luck to them. I suppose it will be the negativity on here that does them in.

[CabinCrewe]

I suppose it will be the negativity on here that does them in.
The flying and paying public don’t give two hoots about perpetual negativity on here…

[BA318]

The flying and paying public don’t give two hoots about perpetual negativity on here…

I think you misunderstood me. I was saying the route is so likely to be hugely loss making that when it ends or the carrier does the same cheerleaders will blame the negativity of us because we didn’t cheer for Flybe loud enough.

[commit aviation]

Is there any reference to these being the BA remedy slots?
Is it possible with the downturn in business and the increase in "use it or lose it" percentages for summer that either they are borrowing the slots from another airline in the short term or have gained the slots in their own right because other airlines have handed them back?
The first seems the more likely I would have thought.

[Albert Hall]

No announcement tomorrow. Well at least not anything of significance, I’m told.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Back to Belfast
https://www.belfastcityairport.com/News/Flybe-Belfast-City-Airport-Second-Base

[NorthEasterner]

Tickets for new Flybe routes are to go on sale next week from Tuesday 22nd March.

https://p1ainaz1aukwstore.z35.web.core.windows.net/Flybe_to_go_on_Sale_Tuesday_March_22nd_Airline_selects_Belfa st_City_Airport_as_its_Second_Base.pdf

[bean]

How strangely quiet,
Oh, i know!
everyones waiting to climb on the bandwagon and critisize the routes when they're announced next week.
can't wait
🤣

[BA318]

How strangely quiet,
Oh, i know!
everyones waiting to climb on the bandwagon and critisize the routes when they're announced next week.
can't wait
🤣

You moan if people comment and moan if people don’t. I thought for a moment you’d got the spelling right this time but looks like I thought too soon 😂

[bean]

You moan if people comment and moan if people don’t. I thought for a moment you’d got the spelling right this time but looks like I thought too soon 😂
I'm not moaning when people don't comment. I'm dreading more negativity next week. As for your comment about spelling, we can't all be perfect like you

[Albert Hall]

Bean, it’s early in the evening and plenty of time to keep at the G&T. As others say, you moan when people comment and moan when they don’t. It’s a poor effort to suppress debate.

I’ve seen the list of routes. I can’t see this business has any hope of success. No point trying to have a sensible debate about that here as anything said will be shouted down and derided.

[bean]

Bean, it’s early in the evening and plenty of time to keep at the G&T. As others say, you moan when people comment and moan when they don’t. It’s a poor effort to suppress debate.

I’ve seen the list of routes. I can’t see this business has any hope of success. No point trying to have a sensible debate about that here as anything said will be shouted down and derided.
Yes time the thread was shut down. By the way' i hate gin

[Albert Hall]

That’s exactly it. With so much yet to happen, it absolutely isn’t time for the thread to be closed, yet it’s another attempt to stifle discussion and debate. Thanks for confirming the obvious.

[cavokblues]

I thought the leaked set of routes from Jenny a few weeks back seemed quite sensible and a good starting point.

However, routes like Leeds > Lhr, if true, are a waste of time IMO. Longer, and more of an effort then getting the train. But all I do is press buttons at the pointy end all day long so what do I know!

[SotonFlightpath]

In pre-COVID times, the routes from SOU to various destinations in northern England and Scotland were frequently very busy, with a large number of business users, together with a fair bit of ‘friends and families’ traffic.
To travel from the south coast to the north by rail involves journey times which are much, much longer than from London. For example, day return travel by rail from London to Manchester, Leeds and even Newcastle is a realistic proposition, and rail is a very viable alternative to flying. The situation from the south coast is very different, with the extended journey times making it virtually impossible.
However, I guess we are now living in very different times and I no longer travel up and down the country for business on a regular business, and it’s very difficult to see the previous level of regional domestic air travel ever returning.

[Alteagod]

Couldn't agree with you more. It's as if no one told them about Covid.

[Wallsendmag]

In pre-COVID times, the routes from SOU to various destinations in northern England and Scotland were frequently very busy, with a large number of business users, together with a fair bit of ‘friends and families’ traffic.
To travel from the south coast to the north by rail involves journey times which are much, much longer than from London. For example, day return travel by rail from London to Manchester, Leeds and even Newcastle is a realistic proposition, and rail is a very viable alternative to flying. The situation from the south coast is very different, with the extended journey times making it virtually impossible.
However, I guess we are now living in very different times and I no longer travel up and down the country for business on a regular business, and it’s very difficult to see the previous level of regional domestic air travel ever returning.
I did a day return from Newcastle to London by train yesterday, left Newcastle at 0704 arrived Kings Cross at 0940 left at 1500 back into Newcastle at 1752. Simple easy and surprisingly busy.

[AirportPlanner1]

I did a day return from Newcastle to London by train yesterday, left Newcastle at 0704 arrived Kings Cross at 0940 left at 1500 back into Newcastle at 1752. Simple easy and surprisingly busy.

Isn’t that the point being made though? Start in Fareham, or Winchester, and your 07:04 means leaving home at 05:00 or earlier and back at 20:00 or later?

[SealinkBF]

I did a day return from Newcastle to London by train yesterday, left Newcastle at 0704 arrived Kings Cross at 0940 left at 1500 back into Newcastle at 1752. Simple easy and surprisingly busy.

London trains are fine - the issue I have with trains these days is the insane fares charged by the likes of CrossCountry from my neck of the woods to Birmingham, Manchester and Newcastle.

[tigertanaka]

Isn’t that the point being made though? Start in Fareham, or Winchester, and your 07:04 means leaving home at 05:00 or earlier and back at 20:00 or later?

I live in the North East and recently needed to go to Portsmouth for a business meeting.

Air: £321 (day return NCL-SOU, an hour each way)

Road: £120 in fuel plus (as it is not possible to do this in a day) another £150 for a hotel and food/drinks. This also means 12 hours driving where I can’t do any work.

Rail: £246 was the cheapest option for the early morning train to Portsmouth and a fixed return coming back (can work on the train but not keen on a fixed return when it’s a work trip). I would not have had enough time in Portsmouth before travelling home so I would have had to spend another £150 on an overnight stay.

Plane was expensive but in this case, not needing an overnight stay meant that it was very much value for money.

[ATNotts]

London trains are fine - the issue I have with trains these days is the insane fares charged by the likes of CrossCountry from my neck of the woods to Birmingham, Manchester and Newcastle.
Not to mention the time cross country trains take. Norwich to Liverpool on EMR takes so long it almost requires a sleeping car!! OK, I exaggerate a tad!

[CabinCrewe]

is it Tue or Wed the launch of routes- The ones we know and more than likely some more of the predictable same?

[allan1987]

is it Tue or Wed the launch of routes- The ones we know and more than likely some more of the predictable same?

Tue 22 launch of routes and website

Remains to be seen if BHD-LHR and LBA-LHR will be code shared with BA or VS/DL/AF

[EI-BUD]

It seems incredible that Flybe would enter BHD-LHR in competition with IAG. I just doesn't add up, the only weapon they'll have is price. Though BHD is the base, BFS would surely be more niche for them offering something different. They could differentiate with a BFS route and I'm sure that airport would support that. The stats from EI being at BFS show that LHR was around 15-20K passengers per month. Might have made more sense to station an aircraft there and share a Belfast crew pool.

​​​​

[SotonFlightpath]

I did a day return from Newcastle to London by train yesterday, left Newcastle at 0704 arrived Kings Cross at 0940 left at 1500 back into Newcastle at 1752. Simple easy and surprisingly busy.
That's exactly the problem, it's easy to travel quickly and efficiently up and down the country to and from London, but from Southampton it's very different proposition. A journey from Kings Cross to Newcastle in two and three-quarter hours is fine. But from Southampton, it's another hour and a half to Waterloo by train, and around half an hour minimum to cross London, with all the faff of getting off at Waterloo, getting down to the tube, the tube journey etc and getting into Kings Cross. This means an equivalent Journey from Southampton to Newcastle is often around 5-6 hours - too long for a day trip. It was just an hour on Flybe when I used to fly.

[NorthEasterner]

That's exactly the problem, it's easy to travel quickly and efficiently up and down the country to and from London, but from Southampton it's very different proposition. A journey from Kings Cross to Newcastle in two and three-quarter hours is fine. But from Southampton, it's another hour and a half to Waterloo by train, and around half an hour minimum to cross London, with all the faff of getting off at Waterloo, getting down to the tube, the tube journey etc and getting into Kings Cross. This means an equivalent Journey from Southampton to Newcastle is often around 5-6 hours - too long for a day trip. It was just an hour on Flybe when I used to fly.

When Flybe had the NCL-SOU route it was 3-4 daily. A lot of traffic from business / commuters, VFR, cruise pax and of course Flybe’s offering of onward connections.

It would be great to see Flybe back on south coast routes from NCL such as SOU and EXT.

[jmdavies86]

It would be great to see Flybe back on south coast routes from NCL such as SOU and EXT.

Loganair serves both SOU and EXT from NCL, plus they're due to begin flights to/from MME on 1st April, so the North East market is pretty much covered already.

Sure they [Flybe] would have 20+ additional seats by using a Dash 8 compared to Loganair's ERJs, however I really can't see how both carriers could possibly survive if they were to start operating on the same route at the same time.

[Fly757X]

Well here they are…




https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x2000/845ecc5a_ef7f_47cc_ba82_3541c77c1458_1d9d295bbc2c6c23f280437 87d166590ed7f0be5.jpeg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x2000/8fd3608c_6da6_44b0_b6bb_905f638794dc_493d17ce695fdda79814520 331202c4a53d4ade0.jpeg

[Downwind_Left]

Well here they are…




https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x2000/845ecc5a_ef7f_47cc_ba82_3541c77c1458_1d9d295bbc2c6c23f280437 87d166590ed7f0be5.jpeg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x2000/8fd3608c_6da6_44b0_b6bb_905f638794dc_493d17ce695fdda79814520 331202c4a53d4ade0.jpeg

Wow.

I arrived at BHD on Friday, on the ground were 3 BA190s, 1 BA320 and 2 EI320s. Nothing else. Belfast City used to be a sea of purple, but it’s now dominated by IAG in blue and green.

I don’t think IAG are going to roll over and play dead in Belfast.

Plus flybe now have easyJet on the London LGW route from BHD, as well as serving LGW, LTN and STN from BFS. Tough market. Good luck.

[brian_dromey]

AMS, BHD and LBA from LHR. That will be interesting! AMS could be brilliant or shocking. I would have guessed there were better routes without so much competition - GLA, EDI or SOU spring to mind, but lets see.

What strikes me is that the ramp-up is swift, I hope their crewing and training can sustain it and their network will be quite complex with a lot of W patterns and shuttling of crews all over the UK. As I understand it crews are based at BHD or BHX? While I think the goal is sensible and flyBe certainly do have to achieve a lot in a short window, I hope their operation has the resilience and operational integrity v1.0 was not exactly known for.

[Rivet Joint]

Well here they are…




https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x2000/845ecc5a_ef7f_47cc_ba82_3541c77c1458_1d9d295bbc2c6c23f280437 87d166590ed7f0be5.jpeg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x2000/8fd3608c_6da6_44b0_b6bb_905f638794dc_493d17ce695fdda79814520 331202c4a53d4ade0.jpeg

Utter madness. Did they learn nothing from the previous incarnation’s scattergun approach?

I have to confess I was a bit annoyed by all the negativity on this thread which I thought was a bit premature giving the fact little was known but I have to say they were all right. This lot are absolutely clueless! A solitary 1 daily route from SOU and two weekly flights? An airport which was one of the biggest bases and has literally no real competition to speak of on nearly all its busy routes and yet the are totally focused on BHD and BHX where there is much competition not to mention a newly launched Emerald opening at the former. I mean AMS to EMA? Really??

Don’t get me started on the LHR routes as well, even a child could tell you 70 odd seaters won’t and never have made money there. I’m lost for words….

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

AMS, LBA and BHD to Heathrow. Belfast has BOTH of EI and BA, Amsterdam has BA and KLM!
Might as well set fire to whatever capital they have, this is a dumpster fire of an idea. The charging regime at LHR makes it almost impossible to make money on a Q400 without additional support.

[Downwind_Left]

AMS, LBA and BHD to Heathrow. Belfast has BOTH of EI and BA, Amsterdam has BA and KLM!
Might as well set fire to whatever capital they have, this is a dumpster fire of an idea. The charging regime at LHR makes it almost impossible to make money on a Q400 without additional support.

I think Flybe have a confused Jesus complex. We are back/we are a new company.

Sadly for them the market has continued to fly. Just not with them. They won’t flock back unless it’s really cheap, in the main.

Wish them the best, but these routes are what Eastern or Loganair could have come up with 2 years ago. And chose not to.
Or a battle with IAG to see who has the deepest pockets (IAG have)

[mwm991]

It's not complicated. The previous model was unprofitable and the scraps that actually made money were hoovered up by other airlines. Disaster in the making. Even the routes like LBA to LHR where there is probably a gap in the market is nothing without the BA codeshare. Someone has lots of money to lose.

[pabely]

EZY will be shaking at the knees with competition from Brum to Scotland, good for the punters but it won't last.
Anyone who has just taken a job offer with the Airline, continue getting your CV out there.

[BA318]

Twice daily AMS-LHR on a Q400 is utterly bizarre. Up against KLM who I think fly 7-9 times daily in the good times and BA who is about the same. Surely there are better uses of a LHR slot even if they are limited to Q400 destinations.

[toledoashley]

I don’t think the model is wrong - just that management decisions from the previous flyBe essentially dug them a grave years ago - which spiralled costs and debt which is never good for an airline. If you can get the costs low enough, and have the right aircraft for the right routes - it can work.

[crewmeal]

Mind you with BA's problems with staffing and baggage issues lately I bet to some will try Flybe rather than run the risk of BA's cancellations.

[SWBKCB]

Any sign of any interlining agreements on the LHR/AMS services?

[ATNotts]

Really don't understand what Flybe are doing messing with LHR at all; unless they believe that by launching LHR services they may get more PR coverage as part of the launch. I really can't see a better way of losing money! I suppose that LBA/LHR might just work, having no competition other than LNER, but by the time you've factored in the time taken faffing about at LBA checking in, then more faffing and expense on the Heathrow Express I really doubt that there would be much in the way of either cost or time benefits if your destination is either city centre! There had better be some interline arrangements in place.

I can only assume that given the seemingly rapid recovery in the leisure travel industry Flybe are betting on EasyJet losing interest in operating from GLA and EDI to BHX and redeploying their fleet to mainland Europe destinations, hence the start date being July, rather than the early summer months. EZY will always go where the best profits are to be made and GLA/BHX probably isn't that far up the profitability list.

It is to be hoped that the investors have got, and are prepared to spend money to allow for two years development and losses. I just fear that these days investors simply don't have that level of patience.

[cavokblues]

Booking engine is live and flights are able to be booked.

Some quite good introductory fares on the routes.

[Barling Magna]

The very best of luck to the new FlyBE. I fear they will need it.

[RogueOne]

A solid set of core routes for Flybe to build from. BFS with lots of connectivity and there will be W patterns galore between the 2 bases.

New website is nice and simple and easy to understand, and the seat options, Lite, Smart, Plus are clear and plain to see, and should solve the clusterf*** that was seen with baggage previously with v1.

Absolutely zero point going too big, too quickly. Flybe have access to the data that shows them the profit to be made, and with new cost savings many of these routes will make even more.

As per their press release, the plan will be to scale up and take back 32 Q400.. then we'll see even more frequency and airports like MAN & SOU & the Channel Islands will surely get some regular service.

You don't start a marathon by sprinting.

[cavokblues]

A solid set of core routes for Flybe to build from. BFS with lots of connectivity and there will be W patterns galore between the 2 bases.

New website is nice and simple and easy to understand, and the seat options, Lite, Smart, Plus are clear and plain to see, and should solve the clusterf*** that was seen with baggage previously with v1.

Absolutely zero point going too big, too quickly. Flybe have access to the data that shows them the profit to be made, and with new cost savings many of these routes will make even more.

As per their press release, the plan will be to scale up and take back 32 Q400.. then we'll see even more frequency and airports like MAN & SOU & the Channel Islands will surely get some regular service.

You don't start a marathon by sprinting.

Admire the optimism but what data are they accessing showing them there is profit on some of the routes? The old Flybe certainly wasn't involved on several of them. Also, if the data is pre Covid how reliable is it? My employer certainly hasn't quite recovered on several key domestic routes in the new post Covid world.

[AirportPlanner1]

I can only assume that given the seemingly rapid recovery in the leisure travel industry Flybe are betting on EasyJet losing interest in operating from GLA and EDI to BHX and redeploying their fleet to mainland Europe destinations, hence the start date being July, rather than the early summer months. EZY will always go where the best profits are to be made and GLA/BHX probably isn't that far up the profitability list.

A good theory but on the same basis short sectors to the likes of BHX nicely fill in gaps around the Med and longer routes that can’t be usefully put to any other use.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Did they inherit BE / BEE and "Jersey"?

There's a delusion at the heart of planning and positioning IMHO. LHR-LBA/AMS/BHD shows that.
From the new homepage :
We are on a journey as a new company taking the much-loved flybe brand into a new era.

Putting our customers and colleagues at the heart of everything we do, our motto is ‘smile and go the extra mile'. We are in the business of serving the demand for faster and easier connections in a friendly, responsible, and sustainable way.

[SKOJB]

Only time will tell on their success and I wish them luck. One thing is for sure, the likes of Eastern, Aer Lingus Regional and Loganair will not be resting quite so easy!

[tictack67]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x2000/screenshot_2022_03_22_11_09_30_52_6c23373dfecc507cb0fa5e7276 111382_75fef162bdbf71fc6772bdc5acc5d3b7713753af.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x2000/screenshot_2022_03_22_11_08_51_97_6c23373dfecc507cb0fa5e7276 111382_e9c88283edb780d0e94560a84f52dcba40a89c8d.jpg
EasyJet losing interest in operating from GLA and EDI to BHX and redeploying their fleet to mainland Europe destinations, hence the start date being July, rather than the early summer months. EZY will always go where the best profits are to be made and GLA/BHX probably isn't that far up the profitability list.

Birmingham to Edinburgh £283 on 24march

Tenerife To Edinburgh €42

Explain your theory on profitable routes?

[ATNotts]

ticktack67:

Birmingham to Edinburgh £283 on 24march

Tenerife To Edinburgh €42

Explain your theory on profitable routes?

More like blows it apart!! However you have taken an inbound date right at the start of the season. A more interesting comparison might be EDI/TFS on the same date. Might be interesting to do a comparison for a midweek date in late May as well.

[ATNotts]

Did they inherit BE / BEE and "Jersey"?

There's a delusion at the heart of planning and positioning IMHO. LHR-LBA/AMS/BHD shows that.
From the new homepage :

So what? Is there something about business and commercial law that is getting misunderstood here - or just a refusal to accept that no matter what the IATA and ICAO codes and no matter what the radio callsign is this is a new business bought from the administrators of the old business.

What is so difficult to understand??

Now whether the new business sinks or swims is another and very debatable topic!!

[cavokblues]

Doesn't help matters when the actually administrators themselves use it as an example of an airline being rescued and to pat themselves on the back for 'selling the old airline.' - https://www.ey.com/en_lu/strategy/how-to-sell-a-travel-business-when-no-one-is-traveling

Similarities with football club sales - the holding company might be different but the brand very much remains.

I'm still not convinced saving the Flybe brand was particularly worth it. I think there were other motives and assets in their eyes behind their initial thinking in doing so but we are where we are. I wish them well!

[bean]

Cavokblues. The website you quote is total bs.
Flybe realisations still owes millions and if previous airline insolvencys are anything to go by, the winding up will take decades.
Thyme opco merely purchased the brand name and LHR slots.
Here we are on the same never ending band wagon again and again and again and again

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Cavokblues. The website you quote is total bs.
Flybe realisations still owes millions and if previous airline insolvencys are anything to go by, the winding up will take decades.
Thyme opco merely purchased the brand name and LHR slots.
Here we are on the same never ending band wagon again and again and again and again
They purchased the LHR slots? For how much? Can they ever sell them on?

[bean]

They purchased the LHR slots? For how much?
Ask Flybe realisations.

[bean]

They purchased the LHR slots? For how much?
Ask Flybe realisations.

[BA318]

Cavokblues. The website you quote is total bs.
Flybe realisations still owes millions and if previous airline insolvencys are anything to go by, the winding up will take decades.
Thyme opco merely purchased the brand name and LHR slots.
Here we are on the same never ending band wagon again and again and again and again

The quoted website is one of the world’s leading consultancy and accounting companies. I think we know who to trust.

[cavokblues]

Cavokblues. The website you quote is total bs.
Flybe realisations still owes millions and if previous airline insolvencys are anything to go by, the winding up will take decades.
Thyme opco merely purchased the brand name and LHR slots.
Here we are on the same never ending band wagon again and again and again and again

They're the administrators handling the administration of the old airline, old bean. Make sure you drop them an email and tell them they're talking bull.

[bean]

318 and Cavok. The website says that flybe was saved from iinsolvency
it wasn't. Comprendez?

[bean]

Right.
The saving from insolvency relates to selling the Flybe business to Virgin Atlantic, Stobart and Cyrus Capital S advisors to the Flybe board. It made a lot of money for EY as consultants
That worked well didn't it?
EY are making loads of money as administrators of Flybe Realisations Ltd as well

[bean]

Cavokblues. Flybe realisations is the old airline

[inOban]

And at that time on Thursday you could take 1st class on the train for £138 with complimentary at seat service.

[BA318]

Right.
The saving from insolvency relates to selling the Flybe business to Virgin Atlantic, Stobart and Cyrus Capital S advisors to the Flybe board. It made a lot of money for EY as consultants
That worked well didn't it?
EY are making loads of money as administrators of Flybe Realisations Ltd as well

Have a read of the article. You started off saying it’s talking bull and now saying it’s talking about something different. You’re just embarrassing yourself. One of the world’s biggest consultancy and accounting companies literally writes it and you’re trying to tell everyone they are wrong and you’re right.

The article mentions selling Flybe and then continues with the problems they face and ultimately the sale of the new Flybe.

[davidjohnson6]

The curtain on the stage has *finally* been lifted and the show has (almost) begun. No, not some kind of funny "virtual airline", but a real proper airline that both sells tickets and also flies the passengers. I didn't think it would really get to this stage, but we should now give Flybe and its employees a chance. We all have our doubts... the CEO will also have his (privately held) doubts as well... but that's the same whenever a theatre puts on a new performance. It is now a case of waiting to see how many punters want to buy tickets for the show
First flight is in 3 weeks time. Anecdotal data on how the commercial side is going will be available from mid May. We will know by summer from the CAA's statistics for May how the airline is really doing

[runway30]

The quoted website is one of the world’s leading consultancy and accounting companies. I think we know who to trust.
An airline needs an Operating Licence to be a going concern. The legal entity wasn't sold, there was no ongoing business. I think they sold the name and a passenger database which amounts to sod all.

[BA318]

An airline needs an Operating Licence to be a going concern. The legal entity wasn't sold, there was no ongoing business. I think they sold the name and a passenger database which amounts to sod all.

“A key priority was to negotiate with the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) about Flybe’s operating license and air operator certification. Without these, Flybe would lose access to valuable assets and vital permissions to function, including UK and EU airport slots”

“The M&A process attracted nine credible expressions of interest and the ultimate sale of Flybe to a new company, called Flybe Ltd and, as Edel explains, “the sale provided the possibility for growth, new jobs and the chance for Flybe Ltd to be a valuable economic contributor to regional communities across the UK and EU.” In the context of the Government’s ‘leveling up’ agenda and its emphasis on restoring regional connectivity, the prospects are good.”

The LHR and AMS slots are from Flybe1 so clearly they went with the sale too.

[cavokblues]

Bean, I'm well aware FBE Realisations is the remains of the old legal entity.

But just because a new legal entity is set up does not mean it's a completely different airline. It's not a binary matter and quite often companies are said to be sold when in actual fact the old legal entity registered at companies house is liquidated with assets transferred to a new legal entity. As I said earlier, it's common place in football. I'm not sure Rangers FC fans north of the border think their club is a new club following their rescue from financial problems a decade ago.

Interesting how Lucien Farrell was registered as a director of the 'new' airline. What would someone who was so heavily involved in the previous rescue attempt of the old airline, be doing at the new airline if it's a brand new airline with no links whatsoever? They even argued in the OL appeal decision against the CAA that 'had Flybe known that the consequence of pursuing an asset purchase agreement was that it would not be able to retain its OL, it would not have chosen to pursue such a transaction in preference to an alternative form of financial reconstruction.'

They basically liquidated the old company to transfer the assets they wanted to the new company and avoid the debt. All perfectly legal. If you want to think it's a brand new company with no links whatsoever to the old company than fill your boots. I don't think it is. A company is a bit more than just a registration at companies house.

Anyway, that aside, as I said I do wish the new airline well. It's always good to see airlines succeed.

[bean]

Jesus christ. The old airline was liquiidated because Virgin needed to save themselves. Stobart who had only contributed assets simply could'nt afford amy more. So that only left Cyrus under Lucien Farrell to poor millions upon millions into a bottomless pit.
I can't believe we are here again

[BA318]

Jesus christ. The old airline was luquidated because Virgin needed to save themselves. Stobart who had only contributed assets simply could'nt afford amy more. So that only left Cyrus under Lucien Farrell to poor millions upon millions into a bottomless pit.
I can't believe we are here again

Keep digging!

[bean]

Keep digging!
Is that all you can contribute?. Do you dispute the facts. I tell yòu what? Let's continue this pointless twaddle for another 73 pages shall we?
please enlighten me as to the dynamite information which will enlighten me? Or, be a good boy and do some research

[BA318]

Is that all you can contribute?. Do you dispute the facts. I tell yòu what? Let's continue this pointless twaddle for another 73 pages shall we?

I dispute your interpretation of the facts but you don’t answer the points put back. You just change the story or repeat the same incorrect, rude and badly written points.

One of the worlds leading auditors and consultants literally put in writing and you still tell people you are right. That’s why the discussion goes on and on.

Anyway we can talk about how Flybe thinks it makes sense to go up against 19 daily flights on LHR-AMS using a twice daily Q400.

[cavokblues]

I don't understand your post about Farrell.

So he was pouring millions into a bottomless pit so had to liquidate the old airline and start afresh with a new airline with him as the registered director?

If you set up a 'new' company registered at company house, with the same name as an old airline, with the same aircraft, with the same director initially, with a lot of old flight crew, replicating some of their old routes, and then argue to the CAA that you didn't have to close down the old airline but you thought it was their preference, it's probably safe to say it's a continuation rather than a complete separate company with no links whatsoever.

I accept you might disagree. But I'm not to going to whinge again and again on the thread because people disagree with me.

[bean]

[QUOTE=BA318;11204151]I dispute your interpretation of the facts but you don’t answer the points put back. You just change the story or repeat the same incorrect, rude and badly written points.

One of the worlds leading auditors and consultants literally put in writing and you still tell people you are right. That’s why the discussion goes on and on.

Anyway we can talk about how Flybe thinks it makes sense to go up against 19 daily flights on LHR-AMS using a twice daily Q400.[/QUOTE
The EY post is advertising blurb they are making megabucks out of this administration
as far as the rest of your post goes, when Flybe was a PLC and Saad Hammad was in charge, i tried time and time and time again to direct people to the investors web pages for the full story but, nobody ever took notice.
Have a lovely day

[Atlantic Explorer]

Christ almighty, I had to check the date when I saw that list of routes announced. It’s not April 1st but it might as well be. Utter madness. There going to be a lot of money being lost in the next few weeks and months.

[virginblue]

I love this "much-loved brand"-PR stuff.

How would the public be able to follow the shenanigans of the reuscitated airline without using the "flymaybe" moniker...

[Jamie2009]

Think today went well, seems very well received on social media platforms and the comments left. I don’t think the general public care if it’s a reincarnation or new company, they just appear happy Flybe are back and are pleased with the offerings. I’m biased but I do think the new website also looks good.

As for the choice of routes and the doom and gloom predictions…… just wait and see. This isn’t back of a fag packet planning with them plucked out of thin air. I’m sure all will become clearer with the ramping up of the business over the next few months.

[BA318]

Think today went well, seems very well received on social media platforms and the comments left. I don’t think the general public care if it’s a reincarnation or new company, they just appear happy Flybe are back and are pleased with the offerings. I’m biased but I do think the new website also looks good.

As for the choice of routes and the doom and gloom predictions…… just wait and see. This isn’t back of a fag packet planning with them plucked out of thin air. I’m sure all will become clearer with the ramping up of the business over the next few months.

I mean come on. 2 daily Q400 on LHR-AMS with no codeshares up against 19 daily BA/KLM flights with major hubs at each end not to mention the Easyjet ops to AMS from elsewhere.

Belfast ops up against Loganair and IAG.

Leeds to Heathrow with no codeshares? Who in the right mind would use that unless connecting (which will be fewer people thanks to the lack of codeshares and partnerships) ?

As for social media, searching for Flybe on Twitter tonight revels plenty of negative comments.

I understand you’re employed by them and want to be positive and I hope they do well but these routes are bizarre. Fingers crossed they decide to react quickly when they lose money and drop them sooner and try other routes.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/297772/flybe-returns-with-23-routes/
A good article here highlighting the competition they are up against on a majority of their routes. A few once a week routes from Southampton and Birmingham, Belfast-Newcastle and Leeds-Heathrow are the only ones not up against others.

[runway30]

Think today went well, seems very well received on social media platforms and the comments left. I don’t think the general public care if it’s a reincarnation or new company, they just appear happy Flybe are back and are pleased with the offerings. I’m biased but I do think the new website also looks good.

As for the choice of routes and the doom and gloom predictions…… just wait and see. This isn’t back of a fag packet planning with them plucked out of thin air. I’m sure all will become clearer with the ramping up of the business over the next few months.

Just to leave behind the argument over whether this is a brand new airline or not. The advantage of starting a brand new airline is that you can start with a clean piece of paper.
Do you want to operate an aircraft with a low seat mile cost once a day or an aircraft with a higher seat mile cost four times a day. By using an aircraft with higher seat mile costs can you attract a passenger who will pay a higher fare for the convenience of a choice of four flights a day?
The problem with old flybe was that fixed costs plus variable costs was less than total revenue therefore you made a loss. The argument for new flybe is that with your clean piece of paper you have an opportunity to reduce fixed costs and therefore bring total costs below total revenue and make a profit.
The problem I have with this is that on the chosen routes they will still be selling a lot of seats where marginal revenue is less than marginal cost and therefore, even with the lower fixed costs, total revenue will be less than total costs. We will see.
Now moving on to Heathrow. Your seat mile costs are greater than your competitor but you are offering your customer less convenience because you offer lower frequency and more difficult connections. How is it ever going to work?

[virginblue]

As for the much ridiculed LHR plans - what is status of Flybe's Mk. I LHR slots? They were apparently grandfathered by Flybe but subject to a legal dispute. Did they end up with Flybe Mk. II?

As far as LHR-AMS is concerned, I suppose they are targeting a similar market as Mk I did with their LHR-EDI/MAN flights. Back then, they were also competing with a competitor offering much more departures but apparenlly saw a nichr for themselves..

[runway30]

As for the much ridiculed LHR plans - what is status of Flybe's Mk. I LHR slots? They were apparently grandfathered by Flybe but subject to a legal dispute. Did they end up with Flybe Mk. II?

As far as LHR-AMS is concerned, I suppose they are targeting a similar market as Mk I did with their LHR-EDI/MAN flights. Back then, they were also competing with a competitor offering much more departures but apparenlly saw a nichr for themselves..
The niche is that you sell seats where the marginal revenue is below marginal cost. Hence my jibe in case any of you missed it before, they invented the be-low cost airline. I have very sad news for those airline managers who can't add up, it doesn't work, give up now.

[cavokblues]

As for the much ridiculed LHR plans - what is status of Flybe's Mk. I LHR slots? They were apparently grandfathered by Flybe but subject to a legal dispute. Did they end up with Flybe Mk. II?.

They lost grandfathering rights on the slots when they lost their appeal against the old OL being withdrawn. TBH, I'm not sure who ultimately owns the new slots they're using.

[virginblue]

The niche is that you sell seats where the marginal revenue is below marginal cost. Hence my jibe in case any of you missed it before, they invented the be-low cost airline. I have very sad news for those airline managers who can't add up, it doesn't work, give up now.

Sure. I was not insinuating that they have discovered a cash cow, but was merely hinting at the fact that they sort of replicate the approach Mk I took at LHR - successful or not.

What frequencies did BMI offer on AMS-LHR? They were also a third force on the route that had to focus on P2P to a much greater extent than KL or BA.

[CaptainActor]

It is great that some of the workforce get their jobs back.

The concerns I have are rising fuel costs having adverse ramifications for profit per passenger. Competition from Emerald (if they get aggressive), And just a personal opinion, reputation. I for one would not have re-launched with the name flybe. It did not have a great reputation by the time it fell. And the stigma of going under.

[tictack67]

.

What frequencies did BMI offer on AMS-LHR? They were also a third force on the route that had to focus on P2P to a much greater extent than KL or BA.

BMI had 8 services a day to Amsterdam, believe you ne they were not just p2p they codeshared and had groups going on codeshares to Asia from Ams with Asiana.

[BA318]

And BMI often made a loss. They did have Star Alliance membership which would help because you’d be more inclined to use them if you could earn points.

[virginblue]

BMI had 8 services a day to Amsterdam, believe you ne they were not just p2p they codeshared and had groups going on codeshares to Asia from Ams with Asiana.

Sure. I did not say "just P2P", I said they had to rely on P2P to a greater extent than the incumbents because of their smaller network.

Anyway, BMI had to fill 1.200 seats a day, not just 150 like Flybe. I am not saying that the idea is brilliant or even feasible, but obviously Flybe hopes that they can carve out a niche in what is one of the busiest city pairs in Europe. Which will, probably, depend on things like pricing - not just by looking at the overall fare bucket, but also at the availability of cheapter tickets booked a short notice etc. etc. What I find more perplexing is a route like LBA-LHR.

[nguba]

On possible cooperation between BA and Flybe, when bmi operated LHR-LBA BA did codeshare on this route, but only when connecting to a BA long haul flight.

[Asturias56]

"BMI had 8 services a day to Amsterdam"

and far more reliable than BA - they were the airline of choice for many from LHR to AMS

[tictack67]

Sure. I did not say "just P2P", I said they had to rely on P2P to a greater extent than the incumbents because of their smaller network.

Anyway, BMI had to fill 1.200 seats a day, not just 150 like Flybe. I am not saying that the idea is brilliant or even feasible, but obviously Flybe hopes that they can carve out a niche in what is one of the busiest city pairs in Europe. Which will, probably, depend on things like pricing - not just by looking at the overall fare bucket, but also at the availability of cheapter tickets booked a short notice etc. etc. What I find more perplexing is a route like LBA-LHR.

I know, however codeshares are not all they are cracked up to be. bmi used to get £50 per codeshare flight, sometimes flights were booked full of them, often these are done way in advance meaning the Business man couldn't get a booking close to dep.
Part of the reason BMI ran a business class on domestics.

So whilst codeshares seem a good way to fill a flight they aren't a money maker

[willy wombat]

I think in BMA’s day it was more like £25 ow, £50 would be return. That’s why one of the companies I worked for stopped doing nightstops overseas because you had all the hotac, crew costs etc for an aircraft full of punters from whom you were getting peanuts. IMHO feeding long haul from short haul only works if it’s one carrier and the system revenue is what matters. Otherwise the short haul partner is screwed.

[TartinTon]

I think in BMA’s day it was more like £25 ow, £50 would be return. That’s why one of the companies I worked for stopped doing nightstops overseas because you had all the hotac, crew costs etc for an aircraft full of punters from whom you were getting peanuts. IMHO feeding long haul from short haul only works if it’s one carrier and the system revenue is what matters. Otherwise the short haul partner is screwed.

Rubbish, you just need to have someone competent in your Pricing dept who's not just going to roll over to have their tummy tickled by the LH carrier!

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Given even Lufthansa couldn't turn around BMI, maybe it's not as easy as all that.....

[GAXLN]

I think in BMA’s day it was more like £25 ow, £50 would be return. That’s why one of the companies I worked for stopped doing nightstops overseas because you had all the hotac, crew costs etc for an aircraft full of punters from whom you were getting peanuts. IMHO feeding long haul from short haul only works if it’s one carrier and the system revenue is what matters. Otherwise the short haul partner is screwed.

BA woke up to this in the early 1980’s when yield management was in its infancy. Analysis of the revenue on the nightstoppers, particularly from AMS, BRU and CDG revealed Pan Am and TWA were paying peanuts to use these flights to feed their services from LHR. It led to the introduction of a 90% prorate requirement being published which soon ensured the low yield tap was turned off and more profitable traffic replaced that which was lost.

As for Flybe, I am puzzled by their LHR network. Is someone paying them to use some slots? In the longer term with high LHR charges, both airport and handling, it will be a struggle to make money with 78 seat aircraft and that is before any UK261 liabilities they may incur if they happen to deliver any missed connection traffic. No doubt all will be revealed in the fullness of time. I do hope they survive and prosper as we need successful domestic airlines to assist businesses and individuals across the country reach where they need to be at an affordable price. Cross Country train fares are often very high. Hopefully the reduction in domestic APD will provide some tailwind help from next year. There are more than enough headwinds for airlines at present!

[AirportPlanner1]

I looked at one way morning fares for Leeds to London by train, it’s £143 tomorrow, £125 on Monday with a few £88s around in three weeks time. The last minute ones come with warnings of limited seats being free. Evening journeys north start from £104 tomorrow and around £59 in a months time.

There probably is a decent market for those wanting to go south in relative comfort and those wanting to save a bit of money. It’s worth noting anything less than £143 single on the train is no more flexible than the flight as it’s set train only. Although the airport comes with costs like parking, city centre car parks near stations aren’t cheap either.

The problem will be filling the opposite direction where the train at equivalent times can be as little as £38 return. And of course whether undercutting the train even at something like £200 return makes money with LHR’s charges.

[BA318]

I looked at one way morning fares for Leeds to London by train, it’s £143 tomorrow, £125 on Monday with a few £88s around in three weeks time. The last minute ones come with warnings of limited seats being free. Evening journeys north start from £104 tomorrow and around £59 in a months time.

There probably is a decent market for those wanting to go south in relative comfort and those wanting to save a bit of money. It’s worth noting anything less than £143 single on the train is no more flexible than the flight as it’s set train only. Although the airport comes with costs like parking, city centre car parks near stations aren’t cheap either.

The problem will be filling the opposite direction where the train at equivalent times can be as little as £38 return. And of course whether undercutting the train even at something like £200 return makes money with LHR’s charges.

You also have to remember many companies won’t even consider allowing the plane journey regardless of the difference in costs. Lots of policies prohibit plane rides when the train is under a certain length of time or no flights on domestic etc.

[Fairdealfrank]

I did a day return from Newcastle to London by train yesterday, left Newcastle at 0704 arrived Kings Cross at 0940 left at 1500 back into Newcastle at 1752. Simple easy and surprisingly busy.

The train is great for city centre to city centre travel, provided that one of the city centres is London. For most people who do not live in a city centre, a journey by air may be preferable, and quite often cheaper and, subject to proximity to an airport, often quicker.

One doesn't have to live far from London for it to be a 2 hour journey plus, with several changes, just to get up to London, before even starting a 2 hour train journey to Leeds/Manchester or 3 hour train journey to Newcastle. Also one needs to consider that travel to/from Heathrow by train involves going via London and using different London stations plus the tube, while carrying luggage.

Domestic routes to/from LHR offer a one stop connection to the world, so LHR-LBA is not surprising especially as no one else is on it, and there maybe scope for code sharing. Would have expected another unserved domestic route rather than LHR-AMS, LPL perhaps (apart from the Liverpool conurbation it also has an additional populated catchment area in Flintshire/Denbighshire). LHR-LPL on U2's list if it ever starts Heathrow operations. Alternatively NQY, a route the old BE did well on, four times a day. Would it work without the PSO arrangements?

Also bear in mind that with weekend engineering works, rail travel is often a 5 days/week option. As for road travel, endless roadworks, death-trap smart motorways, heavy congestion, and speed cameras make this horridly slow and unpleasant.

It's good to have as much transport choice as possible and if a route doesn't pay, it will be pulled.

[AirportPlanner1]

You also have to remember many companies won’t even consider allowing the plane journey regardless of the difference in costs. Lots of policies prohibit plane rides when the train is under a certain length of time or no flights on domestic etc.

Very true but virtually all those I know in the north are self-employed/consultants who can travel how they choose, whereas those who travel north for work purposes are mostly employed and as you say prohibited from flying.

Not sure how representative that is of the wider world but certainly there is a market there, but equally yes in the wider sense corporate sustainability is a challenging factor to domestic that wasn’t there for BE Mk 1. I guess we’re both right!

[anothertyke]

I looked at one way morning fares for Leeds to London by train, it’s £143 tomorrow, £125 on Monday with a few £88s around in three weeks time. The last minute ones come with warnings of limited seats being free. Evening journeys north start from £104 tomorrow and around £59 in a months time.

There probably is a decent market for those wanting to go south in relative comfort and those wanting to save a bit of money. It’s worth noting anything less than £143 single on the train is no more flexible than the flight as it’s set train only. Although the airport comes with costs like parking, city centre car parks near stations aren’t cheap either.

The problem will be filling the opposite direction where the train at equivalent times can be as little as £38 return. And of course whether undercutting the train even at something like £200 return makes money with LHR’s charges.

It remains to be seen what the day before air fares are so as to compare like with like.

There's always been a bit of a market to SW London and Surrey, offices in Woking, Kingston etc. But surely the main LBA-LHR market has been connections to the world. The morning flight up to LBA was always a godsend after a long overnight flight arriving into LHR at 6 am. But will long haul travellers be willing to do self-connect? That feels a bit risky to me.

[BA318]

We've come a long way considering many "experts" on here suggested that it was purely a slot grab to cash in on Heathrow slots. The majority of the public are behind the brand new Flybe it's just a shame that most of the cold apples seem to be on this forum who have nothing better to do than belittle and moan. Let's just be thankful that lots of people will be able to get back into the jobs they loved, I for one wish new Flybe all the best.

Secondly, does anyone else think the new flybe livery has a close resemblance to the proposed Air Southwest livery that never actually happened? The uniforms certainly are a copycat of ASW although why they've gone for black with a purple neckscarf I have no idea, I would have preferred the old purple uniforms back. I've also been told that the cabins have been given a well deserved refresh with new seat covers although what colour I have no idea! I'm certainly looking forward to flying with them out of Heathrow in a few months time.

majority of the public? The majority of the public couldn’t care less and if you look at social media there is a fair amount of negative comments.

Let’s just see how it goes before making presumptuous comments and acting like society is crying out for Flybe2.

The addition of LHR-LBA and LHR-AMS don’t really scream serious airline planning to keep those slots long term…

[Atlantic Explorer]

We've come a long way considering many "experts" on here suggested that it was purely a slot grab to cash in on Heathrow slots. The majority of the public are behind the brand new Flybe it's just a shame that most of the cold apples seem to be on this forum who have nothing better to do than belittle and moan. Let's just be thankful that lots of people will be able to get back into the jobs they loved, I for one wish new Flybe all the best.

Secondly, does anyone else think the new flybe livery has a close resemblance to the proposed Air Southwest livery that never actually happened? The uniforms certainly are a copycat of ASW although why they've gone for black with a purple neckscarf I have no idea, I would have preferred the old purple uniforms back. I've also been told that the cabins have been given a well deserved refresh with new seat covers although what colour I have no idea! I'm certainly looking forward to flying with them out of Heathrow in a few months time.

Id love you to be able to substantiate that assertion but I’m guessing you won’t be able to. Let’s see what happens, but I think you maybe having to eat some humble pie in the future.

[Eejit]

Hmm the same humble pie i'm still waiting to eat when I said Flybe V2 would come to fruition? Typical spotters "I know more than you, I think you opinion is a load of poo and therefore I will find any reason to make it sound as such".
They haven't flown one revenue flight yet.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The majority of the public are behind the brand new Flybe
Where was this gem of insight pulled from?

[Atlantic Explorer]

Hmm the same humble pie i'm still waiting to eat when I said Flybe V2 would come to fruition? Typical spotters "I know more than you, I think you opinion is a load of poo and therefore I will find any reason to make it sound as such".

Bit of an assumption there assuming I’m a spotter isn’t it? You’ve made a statement of fact, I’m asking if you can back it up which it seems you can’t.

[horatio_b]

I have just checked the Flybe Facebook page. First thing you see is the administration notice from March 2020. No recent posts and nothing about the new routes announced.

[BA318]

Take a look at the Flybe twitter page, Maybe go do some research instead of spouting crap on this forum like the rest of the dickheads on here.

Another polite user. I’ll give you a hand. Rather than going to the propaganda source, go to Twitter, use the search function and write in Flybe.

Here’s some examples of the results:

“Is the Flybe sizer scam back too, or is it just commercial creditors taking a reaming this time?”

“@flybe (https://mobile.twitter.com/flybe)
I’ve paid for flights and not received any Confirmation? Money has been taken out of my account.”

“Same planes , same baggage policies , no doubt the same unreliable service . Airlines run by VCs are all about money, it won’t be mine. Why keep the name of such a dreadful company with an awful reputation”

“Must say I’m surprised to see them trading again after going bust not that long ago,do these companies have to make good on previous debts before being licensed again,surely there were losers when Flybe went bust”

“So
@flybe (https://mobile.twitter.com/flybe)
are back! I'll still never fly with you guys again. Charlatans and thieves.”

“Hi again flybe, good to know you are back. Now, how can I get my money back for the flights you cancelled 2 years ago?”

“I thought fly(may)be went under? Not in a rush to book soon after leaving me stranded in Southend a few years back in the middle of the night”

There’s more but at least it gives an example.

I can only assume the defenders of Flybe2 have a horse in the race hence their passion to call people they have never met profanities and insults, which is bizarre as it would make me even less likely to want to use the carrier.

[Asturias56]

no - they have good memories of the Airline

What they don't want to believe is that others got burnt

personally I don't think they were any better or worse than any other small European airline of the time. I'd use the new FB - but without any rose tinted specs as to what might occur. They might be important for a few of the smaller airports if they are successful but a new major player they are not

[willy wombat]

What confuses me about Flybe 2 is as follows (and I have no axe to grind, either way). Normally a company, not just an airline, is founded to meet a perceived need, to “fill a hole”, if you will. But this does not seem to be obviously the case here. Virtually all the routes announced are already served by competitors, and those that aren’t don’t look like gold mines. So what is the purpose - what is the usp that will drive Flybe 2’s profitability? I just keep coming back to the LHR and AMS slots, even though I can’t quite see how. One other comment. A few years ago I was sitting next to COW at an industry lunch. I remarked that I thought the Flybe business model was very complicated with bases all over the place and a route network that looked like a spiders web. Seems Flybe 2 is already going the same way.

[ATNotts]

BA318:

I admire your diligence in locating and transcribing negative posting about Flybe from people who have suffered financial loss from the failure of the previous business, or have found fault in the new airline's booking process. However it can't have been too difficult a task, anyone could find negative postings on Tw@tter about a myriad of other airlines, bus companies, hotels. And don't get me wrong, if I had lost money as a result of the collapse of a business, be it retail, travel or whatever I would be similarly miffed. What neither of the postings quoted appear to grasp is that whatever the name, this is not the Flybe that went bust, it happens to simply be trading under the same name. Personally I don't believe that was a particularly wise decision, but I'm not a marketing guru and I am guessing that the view of the new management and their marketing advisors the positives of the brand out weigh the negatives in the minds of the majority of the people from whom they hope to get booking. Would it have been better to call the new carrier "Flyme" and paint their aircraft pink? Perhaps; perhaps not.

Time alone will tell whether their marketing and route strategies are correct or not.

[SWBKCB]

The majority of the public are behind the brand new Flybe

Over 100 different tweets too Flybe, I've only come across 5 angry tweets asking for money back or calling them Flymaybe.

Rather than going to the propaganda source, go to Twitter, use the search function and write in Flybe. Here’s some examples of the results:

I admire your diligence in locating and transcribing negative posting about Flybe from people who have suffered financial loss from the failure of the previous business, or have found fault in the new airline's booking process. However it can't have been too difficult a task, anyone could find negative postings on Tw@tter about a myriad of other airlines, bus companies, hotels.

I think that tells the story - it's as ridiculous to say nobody likes flyBe based on Twitter comments as it is to say the majority of the public are behind them (or to believe Twitter relfects the real world in anyway...)

And I know it's all legal, but what I despise is that they can come back under the same name, pretending to be back, without paying their debts.

[jmdavies86]

The addition of LHR-LBA and LHR-AMS don’t really scream serious airline planning to keep those slots long term…

LHR-AMS certainly doesn't make much sense given the stiff competition that they'll likely face from both BA & KLM; LHR-LBA makes a little more sense given it's currently an unserved route that has been previously operated from/to LHR, however it's already been discussed that a lack of a codeshare/interline agreement to allow for connections will not really help as customers will be required to pick their bags up and re-check in with the onward carrier.

I did hear a rather intriguing rumour from someone yesterday that they [Flybe 2.0] won't actually fly from/to LHR...they've just announced and put those routes on sale in order to avoid risk losing the slots. When I enquired as to a reason why, I was told it had something to do with the aircraft being too slow to be able to land at LHR, but Flybe 1.0 previously operated the Dash 8 from/to there and the runway length at LHR surely isn't an issue so I can't/don't believe this could be the case, however I'm not sure if any other airline has used the same aircraft type into LHR though and experienced issue(s)...?

[tictack67]

LHR-AMS certainly doesn't make much sense given the stiff competition that they'll likely face from both BA & KLM; LHR-LBA makes a little more sense given it's currently an unserved route that has been previously operated from/to LHR, however it's already been discussed that a lack of a codeshare/interline agreement to allow for connections will not really help as customers will be required to pick their bags up and re-check in with the onward carrier.

I did hear a rather intriguing rumour from someone yesterday that they [Flybe 2.0] won't actually fly from/to LHR...they've just announced and put those routes on sale in order to avoid risk losing the slots. When I enquired as to a reason why, I was told it had something to do with the aircraft being too slow to be able to land at LHR...but Flybe 1.0 previously operated the Dash 8 from/to there so I can't/don't believe this could be the case; not sure whether any other airline has used the aircraft type into LHR though and experienced any issue(s)...?

Loganair will be using ATR into LHR from the Isle of Man which is even slower.

Codeshare tie ups are not money makers, Flybe would typicall pick up around £25-£30 per codeshare ticket and flybe would be left with the lost luggage liability at the other end in LBA or Ams
KLM often used Embraer into LHR and BA A319 suggesting the Pax numbers aren't just there these days

[BA318]

I think that tells the story - it's as ridiculous to say nobody likes flyBe based on Twitter comments as it is to say the majority of the public are behind them (or to believe Twitter relfects the real world in anyway...)

And I know it's all legal, but what I despise is that they can come back under the same name, pretending to be back, without paying their debts.

Exactly. I don’t think the public care. If the price is right and it’s a route they want then they will use it. Otherwise they couldn’t care less.

The real test will be once ops start. A few issues and the names will stick. Hopefully things go well and they can expand into some of the missing niches.

[ATNotts]

Exactly. I don’t think the public care. If the price is right and it’s a route they want then they will use it. Otherwise they couldn’t care less.

The real test will be once ops start. A few issues and the names will stick. Hopefully things go well and they can expand into some of the missing niches.

Problem seems to be that the one aircraft they have been using for crew training appears to have been something of a "hangar queen" over the last couple of months. Tech issues and cancellations from the outset is the last thing they need as the MSM and Twitterati will be all over them like the proverbial rash.

[brian_dromey]

When I enquired as to a reason whyk , I was told it had something to do with the aircraft being too slow to be able to land at LHR...but Flybe 1.0 previously operated the Dash 8 from/to there so I can't/don't believe this could be the case; not sure whether any other airline has used the aircraft type into LHR though and experienced any issue(s)...?

I imagine it’s whispers and rumours to be honest and they have no basis in reality. flyBe 1.0 flew them for a fair number of years. A quick Google suggests flyBe we’re the only operator of the Q400 to Heathrow. So either operationally or commercially it’s a dubious idea…

All of that said the LBA-LHR timetable works for some trips I need to make, so I’m taking a risk they will successfully launch and fly the route. A new airline for the logbook, if not a new brand, I suppose.

[tictack67]

I imagine it’s whispers and rumours to be honest and they have no basis in reality. flyBe 1.0 flew them for a fair number of years. A quick Google suggests flyBe we’re the only operator of the Q400 to Heathrow. So either operationally or commercially it’s a dubious idea…

All of that said the LBA-LHR timetable works for some trips I need to make, so I’m taking a risk they will successfully launch and fly the route. A new airline for the logbook, if not a new brand, I suppose.

Luxair used to fly the Q400 into LHR from Luxembourg circa 2006 until pressure from LHR Auth.


https://www.flightglobal.com/baa-presses-luxair-on-heathrow-slots/76296.article

[cavokblues]

Luxair used to fly the Q400 into LHR from Luxembourg circa 2006 until pressure from LHR Auth.


https://www.flightglobal.com/baa-presses-luxair-on-heathrow-slots/76296.article

KLM were also regulars with the Fokker 50 until 2010.