TUI Airways

[ericlday]

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[ROC10]

I was due to fly with Tui (flight only) on Sunday. Should I still sit tight and wait for them to call me or should I now be trying to give them a call to get a refund?

Holidays are officially cancelled until 16 April (but it will obviously be longer than this) so your flight will not be departing.

Disappointing that they haven’t contacted you at this late stage, I know that holidays are the priority but flight only are paying customers too. I’d imagine you'll certainly get a refund but perhaps it will happen automatically and you won’t need to call them? Either way, I feel like you should have at least received an (automated) email.

I’m due to fly with them flight only in July which is still a while away so I’m hopeful but certainly not confident that it will go ahead. I understand it’s a fast-moving situation but I certainly hope we receive slightly better communication than you have.

EDIT
Just checked their website and they don’t mention refunds for customers departing before 16 April so you may not get one (whether or not they are actually allowed to deny you one I’m not sure, someone else will likely know)...

If your booking is for a flight or a hotel stay – not as part of a package – you’ll be able to move your booking to a later date for free.

https://www.tui.co.uk/destinations/info/travel-suspended

[ZULUBOY]

Thanks very much for the reply. Yes I'd seen that on their website but I was under the impression that in law they had to give you a refund if you wanted it.

[irishlad06]

Thanks very much for the reply. Yes I'd seen that on their website but I was under the impression that in law they had to give you a refund if you wanted it.

If they have cancelled your flight or holiday then yes you are legally entitled to a refund. If you know you are going to go away again and you don’t need the money now what I would say is rebook you’re flights or ask for a voucher, this will keep the money in the company then and keep companies a float. Some companies are offering extra money if you rebook or take a voucher. Not sure what TUI are doing but I know EI are giving you an extra 10% and LS an extra £100 off.

[ZULUBOY]

Yes, I understand all of that and if I was a regular Tui customer I'd go for the voucher. They just happened to be the only airline flying from BHX to Heraklion this weekend when we planned to meet up with my brother-in-law and his daughter coming over from Germany. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Tui but this would have been the first time using them in 5 years (previous was again flight only).

We have tickets booked with Eurostar and Deutsche Bahn this summer and if we still can't travel then, then I'd take a voucher as I use both every year and appreciate that these are tough times for all travel providers 👍

[Silvershadow]

I should be on a TUI holiday now. I tried to call them a couple of times a few weeks back but couldn’t get through. Then I found that they had reimbursed my credit card without telling me. I would have accepted vouchers as I will certainly need a holiday when this isolating is over.

[stormin norman]

I to want to defer my holiday .

After 15 hours on the phone without anyone answering i'm now in the mind ( if I ever get through) to ask for my money back.

Its no way to treat customers.

[Richard Taylor]

I to want to defer my holiday .

After 15 hours on the phone without anyone answering i'm now in the mind ( if I ever get through) to ask for my money back.

Its no way to treat customers.
I know - there's an ongoing, global, fatal pandemic ravaging the world, and you can't get through to TUI about your holiday. Disgraceful.

[pabely]

I know - there's an ongoing, global, fatal pandemic ravaging the world, and you can't get through to TUI about your holiday. Disgraceful.
Really, just thought it was TUI being awkward 🤔

[pabely]

This from a facebook post, can't verify authenticity but it might help.
"For anyone in the UK that booked through Tui, and booked in a store, the online staff cannot access your details as it's a different system. however, a friend of mine who works in store for Tui has told me that from this Wednesday, 200 staff will start contacting customers to rebook etc. More staff will be available once they receive laptops that are set up for them to work from home. They will be doing it in order of peoples travel so be patient."
aka TUI customer service cannot just pick up their office systems and work from home. I'm sure the IT guys at Wigmore Place in Luton will be busy putting in infrastructure for the direct bookings employees as well.Hope that helps.

[double-oscar]

The banner headline on the TUI website is still asking people not to telephone so anyone attempting to do so can surely expect a long and unproductive wait. If you want to rebook and are worrying about missing out on what you really want, I would suggest booking want you want online as, at the moment, you only require a small or even no deposit. There will then be plenty of time to transfer anything you have paid on your current booking to your new booking.

[pabely]

3 x Sunwing B738s pond hopping at the moment, one due into Luton, 2 others to Prague.

[ROC10]

3 x Sunwing B738s pond hopping at the moment, one due into Luton, 2 others to Prague.

This is G-FDZX being returned, which means all are now back for storage in the UK.

[european130]

Well said Richard, l had a gentleman screaming at me yesterday because l could not 100% confirm his holiday would operate on the 12th July. Apparently his two children and wife were devastated... Its a worldwide problem and most companies are working on reduced staff, please have compassion for those who are still working trying to help - screaming and statements like its no way to treat customers do not help, or change the situation we are all in.... Thanks you again

[Buster the Bear]

Why would anyone take a voucher, unless it is underwritten to be converted into cash, should an airline or tour operator fail?

[JSCL]

Why would anyone take a voucher, unless it is underwritten to be converted into cash, should an airline or tour operator fail?

I just accepted a voucher with EI (with the additional markup) because let's be honest... the Irish aren't going to let that fail.

[double-oscar]

If you are worrying about accepting a voucher from a package tour operator consider transferring your booking to a later date. You would then have ATOL protection should the unthinkable happen.

[116d]

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I wonder what state the aircraft is in given the proximity of TFS to the sea?

[JonnyH]

I wonder what state the aircraft is in given the proximity of TFS to the sea?

The engines are fully covered which will help.

[hec7or]

BOH is close to the sea, hasn’t bothered BA

[ROC10]

I wonder what state the aircraft is in given the proximity of TFS to the sea?

Isn't a warm, dry climate (like Tenerife’s) preferable for storage over one like the UK’s? If so, that may have been a factor in their decision to leave it there rather than position it back here empty, which I believe they probably could have done (in a short window) had they wanted to.

[116d]

Isn't a warm, dry climate (like Tenerife’s) preferable for storage over one like the UK’s? If so, that may have been a factor in their decision to leave it there rather than position it back here empty, which I believe they probably could have done (in a short window) had they wanted to.

Possibly, though despite the warmer climate I was genuinely curious as to how salty the air is around TFS given how close it is to the sea. I'm also mindful of how the 727 that's been abandoned at FAO (another airport in close proximity to the sea and has cooler winters than TFS) for a very long time now has been getting more dilapidated every time I pass through there. It's been a long time since I was last at TFS and I guess TUI aren't that concerned if they've kept it there since the grounding 13 months ago.

I'm aware Icelandair moved some of their MAX's to France last autumn as it became clear the grounding wasn't going to be lifted and being conscious of the damage the Icelandic winter could do to the aircraft. Am I right in thinking Norwegian still have a MAX parked at TFS that became stranded at the same time as the TUI example?

[commit aviation]

Isn't a warm, dry climate (like Tenerife’s) preferable for storage over one like the UK’s? If so, that may have been a factor in their decision to leave it there rather than position it back here empty, which I believe they probably could have done (in a short window) had they wanted to.

If I recall correctly they couldn’t move any of them.
I am pretty sure both Tui and MAN would not have left five of them blocking up a Taxiway for a year. Coronavirus has probably underlined the fact that there are cheaper places to long term park airframes then major airports.

[rog747]

TUI's MAX's have all grounded been at MAN for over a year now, except the one is still on it's todd at Tenerife.

Not sure where the Norwegian one went from TFS or it maybe still there?

[ericlday]

Only TUI 737 max still the lonely plane on the tarmac at TFS

[MKY661]

TUI's MAX's have all grounded been at MAN for over a year now, except the one is still on it's todd at Tenerife.

Not sure where the Norwegian one went from TFS or it maybe still there?

There was one in AGP a good couple of months back but it has since positioned back to Sweden

[Gurnard]

EI-FYI was present at TFS until October 15th, then positioned to ILD where it is now stored and has been re-registered as SE-RYI. (I know this is nothing to do with TUI but I'm just providing an answer.)

[Dannyboy39]

If I recall correctly they couldn’t move any of them.
I am pretty sure both Tui and MAN would not have left five of them blocking up a Taxiway for a year. Coronavirus has probably underlined the fact that there are cheaper places to long term park airframes then major airports.
The emergency AD allowed 5 flight cycles to get back to base. TFS in my opinion, isn’t a terrible location for it with limited rain and certainly a dry low humidity climate.

To put in perspective, a lot of places charge more per day in the U.K. than it would for 2-3 months in other locations, especially in the US.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Dannyboy39, the issue was not the AD but the position of various countries not allowing overflights of the Max.
My guess TUI decided to give up on trying to get authority permission and stick with a better climate than sunny Manchester. :)

[Yeehaw22]

Dannyboy39, the issue was not the AD but the position of various countries not allowing overflights of the Max.
My guess TUI decided to give up on trying to get authority permission and stick with a better climate than sunny Manchester. :)

Can't see that being the issue as the route back is mainly over water. Other tui group max aircraft were moved. I heard there was a plan in place to move all the UK max's to DSA at one point but for some reason never happened. The parking location at TFS has caused some issues and I'm pretty sure the powers that be would have much preferred the aircraft back in the UK.

[boeing_eng]

The issue with the Max in TFS is that the UK CAA invoked the Air Navigation Order prohibiting all flights by UK registered aircraft. EASA allowed a number of empty maintenance positioning flights

[ericlday]

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Courtesy of Aeropuerto Tenerife-Sur

[davidjohnson6]

I can understand why the CAA might have wanted all 737 Max flights to stop - but surely if they have the power to forbid flights, they must (eventually) have the power to lift the prohibition, and also (in the interim) to have the power to grant exceptions...
I assume TUI made some sort of behind-the-scenes appeal to the CAA to fly it to somewhere for long term storage that is less remote and away from the sea with 2 very senior pilots flying under very specific conditions. Why would the CAA not relent in this specific instance ?

[pabely]

Next ex FlyDubai B738 routed to SNN today, looks like no stopping these Max replacements coming.

[737James]

Do we know how old these Ex Fly Dubai aircraft are ? i presume that they are early models so without the Sky cabin and are they having the Scimitar winglets being added to save on fuel . I just hope for Tui that these replacement aircraft are going to be reliable once the season starts following Covid 19 as the last thing they need is lots of EU261 claims and sub charter costs and extra bed nights.

I know last year when Tui had an Olympus A321 based at BHX go tech for 3 days and they could not get a replacement aircraft it was costing them over 300k a day in EU claims and hotel costs.

[SWBKCB]

I think finding replacement a/c is going to be the least of their problems this summer.

[pabely]

Do we know how old these Ex Fly Dubai aircraft are ? i presume that they are early models so without the Sky cabin and are they having the Scimitar winglets being added to save on fuel . I just hope for Tui that these replacement aircraft are going to be reliable once the season starts following Covid 19 as the last thing they need is lots of EU261 claims and sub charter costs and extra bed nights.

I know last year when Tui had an Olympus A321 based at BHX go tech for 3 days and they could not get a replacement aircraft it was costing them over 300k a day in EU claims and hotel costs.
They are about 10 years old and Fly Dubai were one of the first airlines to take the 737-800 Sky Interior but whether it applies to these examples........ https://www.airlinetrends.com/2010/11/09/flydubai-737-sky-interior-lumexis-ftts/

[ROC10]

I don’t believe any of the acquisitions have the sky interior and some are older than the 738s that have recently been withdrawn. The thing is, it’s possible they would’ve been able to get their hands on younger frames post-COVID, although this could not have been foreseen and they are less likely to need the extra capacity now anyway. We may not see 757/767s flying at all this summer...

[Wurzel72]

TUI have furloughed most of their Staff, most Staff arent set up to Work from Home (phone lines or laptops) so how are they meant to sit in a call centre when told to stay at home? You will get your money back one way or another but understand that if people cant go to work how are they meant to answer phones or call you?
unreal

[boeing_eng]

The TUI call centre staff have not been furloughed and are the only department not subject to pay reductions during this crisis

[Vokes55]

We may not see 757/767s flying at all this summer...

Says who? More baseless rubbish

[JonnyH]

I don’t believe any of the acquisitions have the sky interior and some are older than the 738s that have recently been withdrawn. The thing is, it’s possible they would’ve been able to get their hands on younger frames post-COVID, although this could not have been foreseen and they are less likely to need the extra capacity now anyway. We may not see 757/767s flying at all this summer...

Complete load of rubbish. You’re not going to pay to lease aircraft and then leave your own aircraft on the ground. If TUI thought they would not need the leases they would have cancelled them just like Jet2 did.

These frames they have leased would have been on the radar far earlier than the unforeseen lockdown and I highly doubt a DECREASE in aircraft demand is going to result in only older airframes being available. Should we not be seeing an increase in availability across the lease market?

We need to stick to facts or, at the very least, plausible information instead of hear say.

[ROC10]

Complete load of rubbish. You’re not going to pay to lease aircraft and then leave your own aircraft on the ground. If TUI thought they would not need the leases they would have cancelled them just like Jet2 did.

These frames they have leased would have been on the radar far earlier than the unforeseen lockdown and I highly doubt a DECREASE in aircraft demand is going to result in only older airframes being available. Should we not be seeing an increase in availability across the lease market?

We need to stick to facts or, at the very least, plausible information instead of hear say.

Sorry, I’m not sure what your point is. I don’t think I mentioned leased capacity. Like you say Jet2 have cancelled theirs and TUI quite possibly have too but I’m not sure. When did I say only older airframes would be available? I said that post-COVID there are likely going to be many younger frames available but that obviously couldn’t be foreseen and they probably wouldn’t want to acquire any further frames anyway, given the fact they have these older acquisitions arriving. I’m not talking about summer leases, of course those are unlikely to be needed (for at least much of the summer anyway) and therefore possibly cancelled.

[rog747]

The use again of the 757/767 fleet will depend on what stage of engineering requirements are needed - TUI although they may own that fleet they will likely not want to pay out for any costly Checks that maybe due. The 757's were planned to have gone by now but have had their grace extended a couple of times due to the MAX debacle.

As for the Sunwing Canada leases - that contract has been around for years, and is possibly a lengthy long term one.
The summer/winter arrangement suits both Companies and a cancellation penalty would be very costly.

As for the recent 738 purchases or leases to cover the MAX groundings. Perhaps TUI have also taken into account the removal of the 757's by procuring these.

As for TUI's mammoth expansion plans for W20/21 and S21 I cannot see TUI throwing caution to the wind and staying with that plan.
Once holidays restart (who knows when) there will be a huge rush for folk to travel to the sun if they can, however restrictions on travel will not be lifted to all countries just like that.
It will no doubt be Country by Country and is going to be hard time for all of us to plan anything.

As much as I love the 757 she is very much on borrowed time with TUI - Procurement of RB211 engine spares is now proving an issue too from RR due 787 troubles.

[ROC10]

The use again of the 757/767 fleet will depend on what stage of engineering requirements are needed - TUI although they may own that fleet they will likely not want to pay out for any costly Checks that maybe due. The 757's were planned to have gone by now but have had their grace extended a couple of times due to the MAX debacle.

As for the Sunwing Canada leases - that contract has been around for years, and is possibly a lengthy long term one.
The summer/winter arrangement suits both Companies and a cancellation penalty would be very costly.

As for the recent 738 purchases or leases to cover the MAX groundings. Perhaps TUI have also taken into account the removal of the 757's by procuring these.

As for TUI's mammoth expansion plans for W20/21 and S21 I cannot see TUI throwing caution to the wind and staying with that plan.
Once holidays restart (who knows when) there will be a huge rush for folk to travel to the sun if they can, however restrictions on travel will not be lifted to all countries just like that.
It will no doubt be Country by Country and is going to be hard time for all of us to plan anything.

As much as I love the 757 she is very much on borrowed time with TUI - Procurement of RB211 engine spares is now proving an issue too from RR due 787 troubles.

As far as I’m aware they don’t ‘own’ any of the remaining 757s but since this is the case with the vast majority of the fleet, it seems odd to refer to them as “leased”.

I would imagine all of the new 738 acquisitions will also be “leased” but they are not temporary summer leases and hence, in theory, should be treated no differently from the other 738s in the fleet (although if they don’t have Scimitars that may affect where they operate from).

The point I was making was that, 757/767 are probably less likely to be used as they are larger (so demand will need to be high enough) but also that they are inherently less efficient to operate than 737/787.

[azz767]

As far as I’m aware they don’t ‘own’ any of the remaining 757s but since this is the case with the vast majority of the fleet, it seems odd to refer to them as “leased”.

I would imagine all of the new 738 acquisitions will also be “leased” but they are not temporary summer leases and hence, in theory, should be treated no differently from the other 738s in the fleet (although if they don’t have Scimitars that may affect where they operate from).

The point I was making was that, 757/767 are probably less likely to be used as they are larger (so demand will need to be high enough) but also that they are inherently less efficient to operate than 737/787.

Whilst I agree with your point I also have think the 76’s may have a role to play. Let’s say 2 or 3 countries are ‘safe to travel’ and the rest are book at your own risk. Let’s say randomly the canaries are a safe zone. Everybody will book to go to the canaries, so will the extra capacity be needed for runs to the safer zones. I may be wrong and I’m just playing devils advocate. I think the 757’s are all but done. The recent 737 leases will cover the 757’s but may the 767’s have a short term role to play?

[JonnyH]

Whilst I agree with your point I also have think the 76’s may have a role to play. Let’s say 2 or 3 countries are ‘safe to travel’ and the rest are book at your own risk. Let’s say randomly the canaries are a safe zone. Everybody will book to go to the canaries, so will the extra capacity be needed for runs to the safer zones. I may be wrong and I’m just playing devils advocate. I think the 757’s are all but done. The recent 737 leases will cover the 757’s but may the 767’s have a short term role to play?

They aren’t going to ground both types in favour of S20 & W20/21 leases. If by chance they recognise they’re never going to be required, they’ll retire them almost immediately.

[ROC10]

They aren’t going to ground both types in favour of S20 & W20/21 leases. If by chance they recognise they’re never going to be required, they’ll retire them almost immediately.

Which leases though? Aren’t all the 757s and 767s “leased” too? As far as I’m aware they are.

[Yeehaw22]

There needs to be definition of 'leased'. ALL of tui's Fleet are now leased, the last owned aircraft was BYAW which was sold earlier this year.

I strongly suspect that all of the wet/damp leases from the various ACMi operators will have been cancelled as have J2. Im guessing at a reasonable penalty (however the force majeure card may have been played).

Regarding the sunwing canadian aircraft, again doubtful if they'll be seen in the UK this year, but suspect seeing as though TUI own half of sunwing doubt there will be any penalty to cancelling these.

Regarding the 757 fleet, several of these were extended to remain in the fleet just for the summer so a distinct possibility these will exit pretty sharpish.

So I'd (optimistically) expect the majority of TUI's remaining own leased Fleet to remain operational towards the year end, including the 757/767.

The next big question is what do they do with the max order seeing as though the rumours are its nearing recertification........

[ROC10]

There needs to be definition of 'leased'. ALL of tui's Fleet are now leased, the last owned aircraft was BYAW which was sold earlier this year.

I strongly suspect that all of the wet/damp leases from the various ACMi operators will have been cancelled as have J2. Im guessing at a reasonable penalty (however the force majeure card may have been played).

Regarding the sunwing canadian aircraft, again doubtful if they'll be seen in the UK this year, but suspect seeing as though TUI own half of sunwing doubt there will be any penalty to cancelling these.

Regarding the 757 fleet, several of these were extended to remain in the fleet just for the summer so a distinct possibility these will exit pretty sharpish.

So I'd (optimistically) expect the majority of TUI's remaining own leased Fleet to remain operational towards the year end, including the 757/767.

The next big question is what do they do with the max order seeing as though the rumours are its nearing recertification........

I agree, most of the fleet will probably remain apart from those aircraft due to leave anyway. The question is whether many of them will fly during S20 now that the government are urging people not to book summer holidays this year.

[caaardiff]

Don't forget that TUI UK is part of the wider TUI group. It all depends how demand is across Europe as a whole, meaning the fleet can be switched around. Germans for example could be more inclined to book a holiday than the British if travel advice is different to what the UK has put out. No-one really knows which way it's going to go.
At the bigger bases where there's higher frequency routes, the 757's and 767's could be used on routes that may have been twice daily or daily, and consolidated due to lack of demand. It could also be a time to get aircraft in for maintenance that may have been done through the winter.
Until everything falls in to place and a better picture of what will happen is seen, it's difficult for anyone to judge. We could see a big spike in Winter holidays this coming winter if people feel the need to get away and this summer is a write off for some. Also remember it's not necessarily TUI Airways that make the call. It's TUI holidays. There may be consolidation on what hotels are being used, meaning less room capacity is needed to save money, whilst not ideal flying half empty planes, it could mean the reduced hotel capacity is filled.

[Yeehaw22]

Again define 'summer'

The kid's school holidays or summer season? I'm pretty sure the likes of TUI and Jet2 will be hoping for a decent-ish end of summer (sep/oct) and October half term to recoup some cash.

Our transport minister should really learn to think before he speaks.

[JonnyH]

Which leases though? Aren’t all the 757s and 767s “leased” too? As far as I’m aware they are.

Wet/damp leases. They were due a few.

[ROC10]

Wet/damp leases. They were due a few.

Yes, I’d imagine those would be cancelled

[rog747]

Again define 'summer'

The kid's school holidays or summer season? I'm pretty sure the likes of TUI and Jet2 will be hoping for a decent-ish end of summer (sep/oct) and October half term to recoup some cash.

Our transport minister should really learn to think before he speaks.

In the industry ''summer'' is defined as the IT charter series program that normally starts May-Oct with some peak destinations like HER & RHO starting APR to the very end of Oct (last half term week is last departure at end of summer flying season)

The Winter Program starts the week after then.

TUI will have Summer 2020 all defined but would not be ready to roll without some notice -- once HM Govt and other EU and other Countries agree to start up Tourism. (if)

But IMO frankly this summer is dead in the water...

[paully]

In the industry ''summer'' is defined as the IT charter series program that normally starts May-Oct with some peak destinations like HER & RHO starting APR to the very end of Oct (last half term week is last departure at end of summer flying season)

The Winter Program starts the week after then.

TUI will have Summer 2020 all defined but would not be ready to roll without some notice -- once HM Govt and other EU and other Countries agree to start up Tourism. (if)

But IMO frankly this summer is dead in the water...

You are right Rog..Only recently the tourism chief for the Canary Islands wrote Summer 20 off in its entirety down there.

[toledoashley]

You are right Rog..Only recently the tourism chief for the Canary Islands wrote Summer 20 off in its entirety down there.

Worth remembering that the Canary Island’s peak season is during the winter (even though they are a year round destination), so to writing off the summer they have less to lose than the Greek Islands, Croatia or even Turkey.

[rog747]

Worth remembering that the Canary Island’s peak season is during the winter (even though they are a year round destination), so to writing off the summer they have less to lose than the Greek Islands, Croatia or even Turkey.

Yup The Canary Islands and possibly Egypt could have a bumper winter if we are allowed to travel - Although TUI has just cut back on SSH expansions with the series cancelled from BOH at least

[ericlday]

Currently stuck in the Tenerife and today is the start of the 6th week of lock down with two more promised. Then if figures continue in the current downward trend, word has it that slowly restrictions will be lifted.....need to be able to go for a walk like in the uk !!!!

[FFHKG]

There are some reports in the Spanish press today that restrictions will gradually be lifted in several stages over the coming months with some shops, but not bars or restaurants, beginning to open from early in May. Freedom of movement will come at a later stage. Also some suggestions that some hotels are hoping to gradually open from late June, but the industry is banking on domestic not international tourism in the first stage of recovery. Children accompanied by an adult will be allowed to go outside for short periods from next week.

[787Heaven]

One further 787-9 due to arrive next year according to All Things 787. The second order has not been listed yet.

[oldbalboy]

Spanish media from what I'm hearing from friends living there is that Spain may not lift restrictions for visiting non Spanish tourists until the winter !!

[ericlday]

From the Canaries.......The President of the Canarian Government, Ángel Víctor Torres, has admitted that the Canary Islands “cannot” endure until the end of 2020 without opening hotels, pointing out that the possibility of having internal tourism must be brought forward to “recover economic normality”, to be followed by national tourism and, finally, international tourism.

[qwertyuiop]

The Canaries may open but with no aircraft in the sky or boats in the water it would be futile.

[inOban]

Spanish media from what I'm hearing from friends living there is that Spain may not lift restrictions for visiting non Spanish tourists until the winter !!
I'm surprised by your exclamation points. It's been clear for some time ,to anyone looking at the situation dispassionately, that it would be the winter season at the earliest. No country is going to risk reigniting the fire by allowing visitors from outside their jurisdiction.

[ATNotts]

I'm surprised by your exclamation points. It's been clear for some time ,to anyone looking at the situation dispassionately, that it would be the winter season at the earliest. No country is going to risk reigniting the fire by allowing visitors from outside their jurisdiction.

Schengen borders are closed until mid May (15th I believe). I'm not certain whether unanimity is required to reopen them, or whether it will be up to each member to make decisions based upon their own circumstances.

[LGS6753]

Schengen borders are closed until mid May (15th I believe). I'm not certain whether unanimity is required to reopen them, or whether it will be up to each member to make decisions based upon their own circumstances.



Schengen borders were never meant to be closed. EU countries that have closed their borders have acted against EU law, so there is no "requirement" on any EU government on how or whether to open their borders.

[paully]

Schengen, in reality is now dead. The genie was let out of the bottle and you can`t put it back in.Just like State Aid, that was `temporarily allowed..Being EU they will try to pretend the `project` is still on course......meanwhile

[TOM100]

TUI have offered me a 20% discount if I accept a credit voucher for my holiday which was due to take place on 1 May. However, I have to rebook to depart within 28 days of my original departure date i.e 28 May. I would normally be tempted by the offer but they really have to offer something a little realistic or I want a refund. Do they really think (they are professional people and realistic) I can go to Greece on 28 May ? I have really lost confidence in the travel sector who think I should support them over feeding my family with such ludicrous and unrealistic offers. Why is their plight more important than my own personal one and who are they to decide how to use my money. I’m really frustrated and upset with them.

[helipixman]

TOM100

I am also going with TUI to Greece but not until 23rd June 2020 - have not heard anything from them yet and not been cancelled.

I assume your travel was for 1st may 2020 and your refund voucher etc is for a new booking which has to be for travel before 28th May 2020. How can they expect that to be OK we will probably still be in lockdown by then. Or do they know something we don't

Have they offered you any other form of refund ?

[TOM100]

No they haven’t. I would like to support them but please offer me something that is realistic. Maybe I have misread it ?

[TOM100]

Maybe it means they will send me the actual discount code within 28 days of my original departure date in which case fine and I apologise - it isn’t totally clear and of course you can’t get hold of them.

[TOM100]

I can see the refund for the actual holiday is valid until Oct 21 but not the 20% incentive validity

[helipixman]

TOM100

That clears that up a little bit better, out of interest how did they contact you to tell you that your holiday was cancelled, phone or email ? and how many day before your departure date ? We are still waiting ?

[ZULUBOY]

TOM100

That clears that up a little bit better, out of interest how did they contact you to tell you that your holiday was cancelled, phone or email ? and how many day before your departure date ? We are still waiting ?

I got the (generic)refund e-mail from them this week, 3 weeks after I was due to fly with them. I've not looked at it properly yet but I think it said I can only get a refund after 12 months (if I haven't used the credit voucher in that time)

[Flying Hi]

I got the (generic)refund e-mail from them this week, 3 weeks after I was due to fly with them. I've not looked at it properly yet but I think it said I can only get a refund after 12 months (if I haven't used the credit voucher in that time)
And that is in clear breach of the Package Travel Regulations.
Ring your CC and get them to stump up your money via Section75 of the Consumer Credit Act.
Psst - don't tell yeehaw - he didnt believe me when I said it was a year.

[Yeehaw22]

I got the (generic)refund e-mail from them this week, 3 weeks after I was due to fly with them. I've not looked at it properly yet but I think it said I can only get a refund after 12 months (if I haven't used the credit voucher in that time)

No that's not the case. There's a lot of bull floating around social media about this.

You'll automatically get a credit voucher, plus a separate 20% incentive to rebook.

Once you have recieved your credit voucher if you decide you want your money back, you need to apply for a cash refund. They are hoping to do all this within 28 days of your travel date.

If you don't use your credit voucher within 12 months it will revert to a cash refund.

I know its frustrating but just a couple of things to note. Some of TUIs call centres are overseas, these are closed. TUI's UK call centres are open and the staff are amongst the only UK staff not on reduced hours. However they still have to adhere to social distancing so not all desks can be filled and add that to staff who may be self isolating or maybe unable to work due to childcare issues. They are dealing with hundreds of thousands of customers and are getting through them as quickly as is possible.

[Yeehaw22]

And that is in clear breach of the Package Travel Regulations.
Ring your CC and get them to stump up your money via Section75 of the Consumer Credit Act.
Psst - don't tell yeehaw - he didnt believe me when I said it was a year.

I asked the last time and I'll ask again. Show me the proof that it says you can't have a refund for a year. You couldn't do that in the other thread, can you now?

[Yeehaw22]

They seem to have added a section to the info on the tui website now that also states if you need to claim a refund sooner (before the credit voucher is issued) you can call to do so.

If you’re unable to accept a refund credit you can apply for a refund; due to the volume of holidays impacted, we’re asking you not to contact us until you receive your refund credit so we can continue helping customers in date order. However, if you do need to request your refund before this you can do so using the details below. Please be aware that our call centre teams are incredibly busy, so call waiting times are considerably longer than usual. You can call 0203 451 2868 between 9am and 7pm from Monday to Friday.

[ZULUBOY]

No that's not the case. There's a lot of bull floating around social media about this.

You'll automatically get a credit voucher, plus a separate 20% incentive to rebook.

Once you have recieved your credit voucher if you decide you want your money back, you need to apply for a cash refund. They are hoping to do all this within 28 days of your travel date.

If you don't use your credit voucher within 12 months it will revert to a cash refund.

I know its frustrating but just a couple of things to note. Some of TUIs call centres are overseas, these are closed. TUI's UK call centres are open and the staff are amongst the only UK staff not on reduced hours. However they still have to adhere to social distancing so not all desks can be filled and add that to staff who may be self isolating or maybe unable to work due to childcare issues. They are dealing with hundreds of thousands of customers and are getting through them as quickly as is possible.

Thanks for clarifying. I do have every sympathy with them

[stormin norman]

They dont tell you your rebooked holiday will cost more than than the 20% extra their offering .My rebooking was quoted with a 24% price increase !

Hardly an incentive to keeping your custom and goodwill.

[double-oscar]

It depends on your view of what the world will look like next year. It all depends on capacity. If airlines fail and there are fewer seats available but demand returns to more normal levels, prices will be inevitably higher. If airlines manage to survive and are desperate to sell seats, prices will fall. If you need to travel on specific dates fixing your holiday price now might be an inspired decision, its a gamble.
If you are flexible and willing to take a risk, holding off booking might bring a real holiday bargain.

[Jon Parfitt]

Just seen it’s at St Athans - is that for scrapping?

[Gurnard]

Originally it was end of lease maintenance, but that might now have changed.

[Vokes55]

End of lease maintenance. Was due to be done in Xiamen but changed for fairly obvious reasons.

[LadyL2013]

I'm scheduled to fly LGW - RHO in September, Corona dependent...

I see this is scheduled out of the South Terminal. I thought it was only TUI flights operated by Norwegian that went out of the South, but booking clearly states it is operated by TUI.

Can anyone shed light on this?

[rog747]

I'm scheduled to fly LGW - RHO in September, Corona dependent...

I see this is scheduled out of the South Terminal. I thought it was only TUI flights operated by Norwegian that went out of the South, but booking clearly states it is operated by TUI.

Can anyone shed light on this?
Your flight numbers should be on your reservation confirmation

TUI holidays and TUI flights usually always publish the flight numbers at this time

if TUI are using a third-party airline in your case then it should be highlighted.
Go onto TUI flights and try a dummy booking for a flight only for that day you are bookedaand it may they give you up-to-date information on the airline and flight number.

[pamann]

Your flight numbers should be on your reservation confirmation

TUI holidays and TUI flights usually always publish the flight numbers at this time

if TUI are using a third-party airline in your case then it should be highlighted.
Go onto TUI flights and try a dummy booking for a flight only for that day you are bookedaand it may they give you up-to-date information on the airline and flight number.

From what I’ve understood all south terminal departures using the ‘BY’ prefix were due to be operated by a leased in airline.
I would hazard a guess that this kind of flying has been canned (like Jet2 have done) for this summer.
You’ll be better off waiting for your tickets to arrive via email with the most up to date confirmed details. There’s likely to be considerable changes to all operators flying programmes, as and when they recommence operations.

[LadyL2013]

Your flight numbers should be on your reservation confirmation

TUI holidays and TUI flights usually always publish the flight numbers at this time

if TUI are using a third-party airline in your case then it should be highlighted.
Go onto TUI flights and try a dummy booking for a flight only for that day you are bookedaand it may they give you up-to-date information on the airline and flight number.
I checked against booking info and flight number and terminal has changed completely but for outbound only.

[allnamestaken1]

Would anybody happen to know what aircraft type Tui use on there flights from Gatwick to Hurghada.

[strawberry Ribena]

I'm scheduled to fly LGW - RHO in September, Corona dependent...

I see this is scheduled out of the South Terminal. I thought it was only TUI flights operated by Norwegian that went out of the South, but booking clearly states it is operated by TUI.

Can anyone shed light on this?

One or more of your flights operates at Gatwick Airport with SmartLynx Airlines. Please note if your flight confirmation shows 'TUI operated by SmartLynx' and has a 'BY5' flight number this will depart from Gatwick South Terminal. When you arrive at Gatwick Airport, please head for the dedicated ‘TUI Operated by SmartLynx’ check-in area in the South Terminal.

(That’s taken from the website)

[LadyL2013]

One or more of your flights operates at Gatwick Airport with SmartLynx Airlines. Please note if your flight confirmation shows 'TUI operated by SmartLynx' and has a 'BY5' flight number this will depart from Gatwick South Terminal. When you arrive at Gatwick Airport, please head for the dedicated ‘TUI Operated by SmartLynx’ check-in area in the South Terminal.

(That’s taken from the website)

It read that but that's not what my booking says. It says 'operated by TUI'. The flight number has changed completely from a TOM to a BY number and changed terminals. I don't know if it is a foreshadowing of what they suspect the operations may be like at that time?

[GAXLN]

TUI still selling holidays departing May 15th onwards...... we are now seventeen days away. Personally, I can’t see those flights operating. I did see one article this morning suggesting Canaries do not want any UK holidaymakers before end of Summer at the very earliest.

[JSCL]

TUI still selling holidays departing May 15th onwards...... we are now seventeen days away. Personally, I can’t see those flights operating. I did see one article this morning suggesting Canaries do not want any UK holidaymakers before end of Summer at the very earliest.

Indeed. I have a friend who had a £42k holiday booked with Tui for mid-May and wanted to move it to later this year (October time) and was quoted £11k to change... so now they're just going to have to wait for it to be officially cancelled and hope for the best.

[ericlday]

It is not a case of the Canaries not wanting UK holidaymakers (who make a large contribution to the economy) but having to preserve the current state of virus decline on the Islands. Sundays figures showed only 11 new cases and nil deaths throughout the Canaries.......something I have to bear in mind whilst I am trying to return to uk.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I am pretty sure that anyone travelling on non essential travel will be doing so without valid travel insurance, this is due to the FCO travel guidelines issued at this time.

[ROC10]

Indeed. I have a friend who had a £42k holiday booked with Tui for mid-May and wanted to move it to later this year (October time) and was quoted £11k to change... so now they're just going to have to wait for it to be officially cancelled and hope for the best.

£42k? :eek:

[ImPlaneCrazy]

£42k? :eek:

Easily done, normally wedding groups booking for 20 pax for 2 weeks in Mexico at £2k pp... et voila!

[Mr @ Spotty M]

JSCL, your friends should now have no problem with the booking in May as TUI has cancelled all package holidays until the 11th June.

[caaardiff]

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/tui-holiday-cancellation-easyjet-package-travel-regulations-a9489716.html?fbclid=IwAR1yTtWF4f1rUGqWhXDs_lGiM-OUOhh7BtktET9q1J-QyTAd82Gvok6ZIAM

[dmouse88]

I'm scheduled to fly LGW - RHO in September, Corona dependent...

I see this is scheduled out of the South Terminal. I thought it was only TUI flights operated by Norwegian that went out of the South, but booking clearly states it is operated by TUI.

Can anyone shed light on this?
Currently North Terminal is closed so all flight departures are showing departure from south terminal, this however is dependant on when restrictions are lifted and how many flights will be operating. It is the Gatwick operators who have made this descision not the airline. So technically if you have a TUI booking they are operating from south terminal until restriction is lifted and North terminal is reopened. Hope this helps your problem not withstanding that we may still be in lock down in September, hope not I am due to go to Kos in September also.

[pabely]

Would anybody happen to know what aircraft type Tui use on there flights from Gatwick to Hurghada.

I have been on 757 & 738 before. I'm sure the plan for S20 would have been 737 Max but I cannot see that now as this continues to have software issues and then there the question of CV19.

[LadyL2013]

Currently North Terminal is closed so all flight departures are showing departure from south terminal, this however is dependant on when restrictions are lifted and how many flights will be operating. It is the Gatwick operators who have made this descision not the airline. So technically if you have a TUI booking they are operating from south terminal until restriction is lifted and North terminal is reopened. Hope this helps your problem not withstanding that we may still be in lock down in September, hope not I am due to go to Kos in September also.
This makes sense, thanks!

[Buster the Bear]

I am pretty sure that anyone travelling on non essential travel will be doing so without valid travel insurance, this is due to the FCO travel guidelines issued at this time.

And, if you purchased your policy after the WHO declared it a pandemic, it will NOT cover you for Covid-19, unless it specifically states this, which I doubt. Policies taken prior to this should, but all will fall foul of FCO guidance. You travel, you get ill, you pay.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I see that not only are Tui trying to delay refunds to those with cancelled flights and holidays, but also refusing to pay in full for hotel beds last winter.
The following Taken from Travel Weekly.Tui Group has told hotel partners they will not receive 75% of money owed to them for holidays taken last winter until after the coronavirus crisis.
In a letter sent to Spanish hotel suppliers, Europe’s biggest travel firm set out proposed revised payment terms for January, February and March.

[Matt2725]

G-TUII flew BY981 BOH-PUJ-KIN yesterday and BY982 KIN-LHR before positioning back to LGW.

Another repatriation flight?

[intortola]

Yes, it was. Advertised regionally here. Organized by FCO. Tickets were GBP367 if my memory is correct. Very hard to get to Jamaica though if you were not actually there!

[oldbalboy]

o/b flight went via PUJ to drop of staff from a tui cruise ship that was in southampton

[ZULUBOY]

I've tried to claim my refund today. I appreciate these are very difficult circumstances but if you can get through without the line being out of order or engaged you are then transferred to a menu. All goes swimmingly, you press the various options and are then told they can't take your call and to call back another time. I'd rather be put in a queue and told I'm number 500 I think

[jon01]

Tui Group to cut 8,000 jobs due to pandemic impact (https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-tui-group-to-cut-8-000-jobs-due-to-pandemic-impact-11987381)

[FFMAN]

From the Press Release:
"When people are allowed to travel, there is a chance that cabin fever will be a great sales tool....''
Errr, an unfortunate choice of phrase!

[helipixman]

I've tried to claim my refund today. I appreciate these are very difficult circumstances but if you can get through without the line being out of order or engaged you are then transferred to a menu. All goes swimmingly, you press the various options and are then told they can't take your call and to call back another time. I'd rather be put in a queue and told I'm number 500 I think

Not looking good at TUI at the momemnt, I tried to phone today as my booking was made in-store and due to that I cannot amend my booking online. Got through to automated line telling me they were busy and to call back later, this happens every time and then just cut off !!!! Having said all this they are still trying to sell holidays for the same date I am booked to go ?

So 8,000 job losses and so far in 2020 £750 million losses. Will they survive ?

[stormin norman]

Tui on their website today are still saying holidays are still going from 11th June but Hotels booked with the holiday are not showing reopening (sellinng) until a later date.

If the hotels are planning not to open till a later date is this just another TUi ploy to hang on to your money ?

Not impressed.

[double-oscar]

Normal call centre volume is about 30,000 calls per day. At present it is somewhere between 300,000 and 1,000,000. The travel shops are still closed so they cannot help out. The call centres are open but unable to accommodate the same number of workers. The number of people able to work at home is ramping up all the time. Online bookings are easier to deal with and an automatic process for the issue of vouchers and cash refunds if required has been developed. Holidays booked through the shops are more difficult to deal with. So far over one million bookings have been affected. Holidays until 18th June have been cancelled and in time I am sure this date will be pushed back. However, each week that date is pushed back and we approach peak season the number of holidays affected will increase massively and the company is probably just trying to manage the workload. It will all work out in the end.

[stormin norman]

If that is true then why is the web site still showing the 11th ?

I think it's a tactic to delay the process of refunds .Surely communications with your customers is all important in these troubled times ?

Again not impressed.

[Yeehaw22]

If that is true then why is the web site still showing the 11th ?

I think it's a tactic to delay the process of refunds .Surely communications with your customers is all important in these troubled times ?

Again not impressed.

It is currently the 11th.

so just to be clear you're not impressed at not being refunded for a holiday that hasn't been cancelled yet?

[Flying Hi]

It is currently the 11th.

so just to be clear you're not impressed at not being refunded for a holiday that hasn't been cancelled yet?

Surely they're not actually in default until the day you fly - or rather, don't.

[A340600MAN]

Hi

t's been 3 days since a paid some of my balance off a holiday for summer 2021 using my voucher I received. As of yet I've not received a email confirmation or a change on the balance on my booking.Does anyone know how long it takes to action my request?

[stormin norman]

TUIs website appears to be lagging behind what's happening in the rest of the world at the moment.

[rowly6339]

I am currently looking at booking Dom rep for March 2021 and thinking should I or should I just wait. Decisions decisions? I have a good feeling TUI will pull through this but I don’t think anybody can say for sure that I would be fine to book it and not worry about a cancellation further down the line.

[Flying Hi]

I'm waiting until the Second Wave has passed through. Then, if there's anywhere left to travel to and to travel with, we'll check it out.
Meanwhile, I'LL be the one holding the money.
​​​​​

[double-oscar]

Who knows how the travel industry will look next year but I am sure TUI will be there. With regards to booking next year, the question to ask is "is it a good deal?" If it is what have you got to lose? Your money is ATOL protected. If you are flexible perhaps it might be worth waiting to see if prices fall. However, if there is a strong recovery in leisure travel with people looking to take the holiday they missed in 2020, will prices be high? Who knows? If only we had a crystal ball!

[TOM100]

Still you can make 20% interest on your ATOL protected money (assuming you plan another TUI holiday) so if you can afford not to have the cash why not ? Bank interest rates are effectively 0.

[stormin norman]

Difficult to have trust in an airline that still shows your booking as going but you have to quarantine for 2 weeks at both ends.
The hotel is also showing unbookable till a later date.
How many customers have decided to cancel completely rather than rebook ?

[helipixman]

Difficult to have trust in an airline that still shows your booking as going but you have to quarantine for 2 weeks at both ends.
The hotel is also showing unbookable till a later date.
How many customers have decided to cancel completely rather than rebook ?

My TUI holiday is still showing as going ahead to Greece in late June ! The Greek government are stating they do not want any UK tourists until further notice, they are not accepting any international flights until 1st July! The FCO are still advising against all non essential travel. So three reasons we cannot go, but TUI still have not cancelled our holiday or been in touch !

What are they hoping, the Greek Government or the FCO change their advice ? Or they want us to cancel without a refund ? I will wait it out and go next year and use my voucher if I ever get it !!!

[davidjohnson6]

TUI are probably desperately trying to hold onto cashflow for as long as they possibly can - lack of cash can easily make a firm go bankrupt.

About a week before your holiday is due to depart you will get a cancellation email if it's not possible to go ahead, trying to persuade you to accept a voucher or suggesting an alternative holiday (ie Spain), but permitting a refund if you insist on one. If the Greek Govt are refusing UK flights, I would not have any expectation of Greek holidays happening in June - start making plans for a trip to Devon instead

Until then, you just have to wait

[habs_fan]

My TUI holiday is still showing as going ahead to Greece in late June ! The Greek government are stating they do not want any UK tourists until further notice, they are not accepting any international flights until 1st July! The FCO are still advising against all non essential travel. So three reasons we cannot go, but TUI still have not cancelled our holiday or been in touch !

What are they hoping, the Greek Government or the FCO change their advice ? Or they want us to cancel without a refund ? I will wait it out and go next year and use my voucher if I ever get it !!!


I am in the same boat suppose to be going to Cuba in June with TUI but Cuba airspace is close till just 1st at the Earliest. Plus they are still selling Florida for June even though British passengers are not aloud in America!

Wish they would just cancel my holiday save me clinging to false hope

[helipixman]

I am in the same boat suppose to be going to Cuba in June with TUI but Cuba airspace is close till just 1st at the Earliest. Plus they are still selling Florida for June even though British passengers are not aloud in America!

Wish they would just cancel my holiday save me clinging to false hope

I have given up hoping, like you just wish they would tell me officially I am not going.

[loopylee]

They are cancelling in manageable batches so many weeks ahead in advance so their staff and phone lines are not overrun (which they are already!) if your holiday is cancelled you will be notified in date order! Just sit tight.. not as if you can do anything else is it!!

[stormin norman]

I understand trying to hang on to Cash, but any company desperate for business in the near future should also try and keep the customers they already have.

How many people have changed their minds from rebook to Refund ?

[valefan16]

My TUI holiday is still showing as going ahead to Greece in late June ! The Greek government are stating they do not want any UK tourists until further notice, they are not accepting any international flights until 1st July! The FCO are still advising against all non essential travel. So three reasons we cannot go, but TUI still have not cancelled our holiday or been in touch !

What are they hoping, the Greek Government or the FCO change their advice ? Or they want us to cancel without a refund ? I will wait it out and go next year and use my voucher if I ever get it !!!

Yes I guess they would be, FCO advise may lift at any point before then (Germany for instance announced they are lifting theirs) and the Greeks from what I read are reviewing the list weekly, by mid June we may be down to low enough levels for them to say come in by July and an air bridge set up.

I did read something about July 15th in the telegraph article for higher risk countries to Greece which would be a bit of a pain as I am due to land in Kos late on the 14th!

Things may well look very different in terms of our position come July 1st if the rates keep dropping as they are at the minute.

[helipixman]

Yes I guess they would be, FCO advise may lift at any point before then (Germany for instance announced they are lifting theirs) and the Greeks from what I read are reviewing the list weekly, by mid June we may be down to low enough levels for them to say come in by July and an air bridge set up.

I did read something about July 15th in the telegraph article for higher risk countries to Greece which would be a bit of a pain as I am due to land in Kos late on the 14th!

Things may well look very different in terms of our position come July 1st if the rates keep dropping as they are at the minute.

Unfortunately I live in the UK which is deemed as high risk ! But actually I am in Scotland which is probably considered low risk !
I am resigned to the fact that my holiday is not going to happen, due into Rhodes 23rd June. Even if I did get there what will it be like, my friends in Greece are saying it will be a totally unrelaxing experience, no buffet breakfast allowed - we booked B & B basis, social distancing everywhere, masks and god knows what else ! Quarantine at each end ? Would be a complete nightmare... cannot wait for it to be officially cancelled and then maybe attempt a relaxing holiday next year. For us at present too many variables ? FCO Greek Government and TUI themselves ! They all have to say YES !

[The96er]

Unfortunately I live in the UK which is deemed as high risk ! But actually I am in Scotland which is probably considered low risk !

I'd take that rose-tinted pro Scottish chip of your shoulder. Internationally, we are a single nation, oh, and Scotlands infection rate per capita is higher than England.

[helipixman]

I'd take that rose-tinted pro Scottish chip of your shoulder. Internationally, we are a single nation, oh, and Scotlands infection rate per capita is higher than England.

You should be careful what you say on here as you obviously know nothing about me, I may live in Scotland but I was born in England and have a Welsh family background. I am definately not pro-scottish I just chose to live there. If we are a single nation then tell me why are Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland easing their lockdowns later than England and have so many devolved powers.
We are no longer a single Nation, look at the United States of America... every state doing things differently they are no longer United ! The United Kingdom is going the same way !Its just a name !

[RogueOne]

You should be careful what you say on here as you obviously know nothing about me!

Yeah.. be careful. Scary stuff.

[The96er]

. If we are a single nation then tell me why are Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland easing their lockdowns later than England and have so many devolved powers.
We are no longer a single Nation, look at the United States of America... every state doing things differently they are no longer United ! The United Kingdom is going the same way !Its just a name !

The clue was in the word 'Internationally', i.e Germany, France, Spain... and any other soveriegn nation will NOT make an exception for any devolved nation as they are not recognised individual soveriegn nations, but even if they did, they'll likely take into account that Scotland has a higher infection rate the England at this particular time.

[helipixman]

The clue was in the word 'Internationally', i.e Germany, France, Spain... and any other soveriegn nation will NOT make an exception for any devolved nation as they are not recognised individual soveriegn nations, but even if they did, they'll likely take into account that Scotland has a higher infection rate the England at this particular time.
Thats exactly the problem Internationally we are classed as one nation but in reality we are not ! Lets face it, even in England certain parts are treated very differently.
Anyway my point was I do not wear rose tinted glasses or have a pro-scottish chip on my shoulder I am English and proud of it !

[737James]

I have noticed that my flights to PFO with Tui in September from BHX are now showing as being operated on an A320, I thought the plan for this year was to use all 737-800s and 757s for European flights hence them leasing and painting a number of additional aircraft.

[ROC10]

I have noticed that my flights to PFO with Tui in September from BHX are now showing as being operated on an A320, I thought the plan for this year was to use all 737-800s and 757s for European flights hence them leasing and painting a number of additional aircraft.

The way I'm looking at it is that the newly-acquired second-hand 738s are essentially "covering" for the MAXs as well as allowing for some additional capacity as the 757s and older existing 738s are withdrawn, although the latter are mostly younger than the "new" acquisitions. The planned additional ACMI capacity this summer (although there is normally always some) seemed to be part of the effort to fill the gap left by the loss of TCX. Of course, it seems impossible to say what could possibly happen this summer (or for the foreseeable future) but I don't envisage much/any ACMI capacity being used (and possibly not much of their own capacity either sadly).

[manchesterflyer2]

A number of 320s/321s were due to be leased in S20 in order to facilitate the summer 21 expansion and to help "bridge the gap" whilst waiting for the MAX re-entry into service, hence the A320 flight.

[ROC10]

A number of 320s/321s were due to be leased in S21 in order to facilitate the summer 21 expansion and to help "bridge the gap" whilst waiting for the MAX re-entry into service, hence the A320 flight.
Think they’re referring to S20

[manchesterflyer2]

Think they’re referring to S20
Oops, just realised my typo.

[davidjohnson6]

Everything departing before 1 July now cancelled
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/coronavirus-travel-holiday-tui-cancelled-flights-quarantine-a9536301.html
Some other holidays have been cancelled for later dates as well

Hope everyone is happy and enjoys themselves in Devon :-)

[helipixman]

Everything departing before 1 July now cancelled
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/coronavirus-travel-holiday-tui-cancelled-flights-quarantine-a9536301.html
Some other holidays have been cancelled for later dates as well

Hope everyone is happy and enjoys themselves in Devon :-)

I am so happy and relieved my holiday which was before 1st July has been cancelled by TUI, just have to wait for the voucher and re-book for next year ? Plenty of places to go in the UK this year if needed ..

[oldart]

Unless I missed it, but Marella Cruises seem to be very quiet on announcements at the moment. I guess quite a lot of people will want to avoid a ship this year, this surely will affect TUI capacity with less rotations.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

They are extending the cancellation of cruises till July 30th.

[oldart]

They are extending the cancellation of cruises till July 30th.
Cheers. It's going to be interesting how they are going to social distance on a ship if they go back in August.

[Cloud1]

A number of 320s/321s were due to be leased in S20 in order to facilitate the summer 21 expansion and to help "bridge the gap" whilst waiting for the MAX re-entry into service, hence the A320 flight.

Are these likely to be from the same company that use to provide A320s to TCX with an LY-registration? I notice two were suppose to be in DUB and at least one in LGW.

[manchesterflyer2]

Some were to come from SmartLynx and some from Avion Express, but the distribution of these was still in the process of being finalised before the coronavirus event.

[LGS6753]

TUI agrees compensation with Boeing

https://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?c=setreg&region=2&m_id=s~T_mdT_Y!&w_id=37597&news_id=2042928

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I would say the most interesting item from the announcement is the reduction to the fleets of the five airlines.
I wonder what the size of the reduction is going to be.

[ROC10]

Interesting. It doesn’t seem to clarify whether or not more aircraft will be delivered in later years as opposed to the next two years. I haven’t previously heard of this plan to reduce their fleet sizes but there’s also a suggestion that it may be a new plan brought on by Covid. Obviously though, they have been streamlining to 737/787. I wonder if this will accelerate the disposal of other types or see them stick around longer if there will be fewer MAXs (not that it matters at the moment given it’s a mystery as to when they will ever return to service). It’s clear that they now see Covid as having a significantly more than short-term impact which isn’t hugely surprising but it’s not exactly encouraging either.

[Percula]

G-TUIN is just about to land at LHR from KIN. Must be a first?

[Mr @ Spotty M]

First for LHR or KIN?
I understand that they have been into LHR a number of times of late.

[Less Hair]

Several reports claim TUIfly is set to be shrinking this morning. Staff and fleet about to be halved, base Cologne closed, no more long range plans.

[ATNotts]

Several reports claim TUIfly is set to be shrinking this morning. Staff and fleet about to be halved, base Cologne closed, no more long range plans.

This article from tagesschau.de confirms same. Not only CGN but Bremen and Münster-Osnabrück and possibly more.

https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/tuifly-flotte-coronakrise-101.html

It would be somewhat surprising if the UK, and other group airlines may not be in line for similar drastic action, though there is nothing in the article to suggest that.

[FRatSTN]

Germany in general will be particularly hard hit I reckon. High operating costs compared to other markets whilst Lufthansa and partners are given huge government bailout.

[SWBKCB]

Germany in general will be particularly hard hit I reckon. High operating costs compared to other markets whilst Lufthansa and partners are given huge government bailout.

TUI have also received German govt assistance

TUI AG: German Federal Government approves KfW bridge loan of 1.8 billion euros (https://www.tuigroup.com/en-en/media/press-releases/2020/2020-03-27-tui-ag-german-federal-government-approves-kfw-bridge-loan)

[lederhosen]

This is very sad news as TUI had good working conditions and was a relatively stable firm. Yes the the formerly Air Berlin now Eurowings wet lease was always going to be a problem. But this is dramatic stuff and leaves few 737 options in Germany. It will be interesting to see if they offer part time working, which would indicate that they are not looking to permanently offshore the jobs (e.g. wet lease Eastern European operators etc) once things pick up again.

[pabely]

My source said the removal of 10 of the 13 German bases and reduction of 17 x 737s, frightening!
Large parts of the engineering side to be moved out of Germany with UK mentioned which would be Luton.

[oldbalboy]

It was second on there is another repatriation flight in a couple days

[Mr @ Spotty M]

TUI UK and Ireland is cancelling all beach holidays up to and including July 10.

[helipixman]

TUI UK and Ireland is cancelling all beach holidays up to and including July 10.

It keeps getting pushed further and further back, when will it end ? My holiday 23rd June was cancelled a while back, still have not heard from them with a refund voucher ? They say they will contact us within 28 days of departure date, guess that will be within 28 days after the departure date ? Hoping their stores will open soon 15th June in England ? Probably later up here in Scotland. Waiting it out to re-book for next year, thats assuming the world still exists ?

[valefan16]

It keeps getting pushed further and further back, when will it end ? My holiday 23rd June was cancelled a while back, still have not heard from them with a refund voucher ? They say they will contact us within 28 days of departure date, guess that will be within 28 days after the departure date ? Hoping their stores will open soon 15th June in England ? Probably later up here in Scotland. Waiting it out to re-book for next year, thats assuming the world still exists ?

Assume it’s because the three week review on quarantine is not until 29th so would leave little time if air bridges are not secure if starting holidays on the 1st? Same with Jet2 with 15th now.

[737James]

The other thing that has been pointed out with Tui and Jet2 when they start operating again is the huge logistical operation in getting staff out to resort especially when you consider some of the Tui/ First choice Family resorts have over 50 UK staff in each hotel.
Normally it would be more staggered with some going out one day and then more the next day using EZY and other low cost carriers
I know some First Choice entertainment staff have been told that they need to be ready to fly from 4th July onwards and that flights would likely be from central location like Gatwick, Birmingham and Manchester and then guests would start arriving a week later.

[valefan16]

The other thing that has been pointed out with Tui and Jet2 when they start operating again is the huge logistical operation in getting staff out to resort especially when you consider some of the Tui/ First choice Family resorts have over 50 UK staff in each hotel.
Normally it would be more staggered with some going out one day and then more the next day using EZY and other low cost carriers
I know some First Choice entertainment staff have been told that they need to be ready to fly from 4th July onwards and that flights would likely be from central location like Gatwick, Birmingham and Manchester and then guests would start arriving a week later.

Makes sense, especially if the June 29th air bridges turns out to be true.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

From Travel Weekly
Spain is not discussing a travel corridor with Britain and favours a pan-European reopening of tourism, according to reports.
Reuters quoted a source in the Spanish Foreign Ministry as saying: “Spain has called for a common (European Union-wide) approach to opening the borders. If this is not done, it will establish its own criteria.”
This might be an issue for the possible air bridges.

[valefan16]

From Travel Weekly
Spain is not discussing a travel corridor with Britain and favours a pan-European reopening of tourism, according to reports.
Reuters quoted a source in the Spanish Foreign Ministry as saying: “Spain has called for a common (European Union-wide) approach to opening the borders. If this is not done, it will establish its own criteria.”
This might be an issue for the possible air bridges.

There was a suggestion earlier in the week that the PM wants an EU agreement on an Air Bridge (plus Singapore, Australia and Dubai)

It makes sense but the EU nations are currently all doing differing things, Portugal and Italy are very much against quarantine as "enemies of tourism" I think the Germans and Croatians will have us without quarantine whereas Greece, Cyprus and Spain are debating what to do and hoping our rates keep falling.

The French are tit for tat quarantining us and the Spanish all be it a "voluntary quarantine" which seems even more pointless than ours!

Whereas Denmark don't want anyone bar their close neighbours (except Sweden) until the end of the summer.

So getting an agreement for Europe as a whole despite Spain and the EU leadership wanting it seems a big ask! The Greek Islands are worried without the UK they will be decimated for example as will many Spanish resorts so I guess most will let us in if assurances and the infection rates keep dropping by July.

[TOM100]

Will TOM need to do much SIM checks etc before taking to the skies again - not sure on the rules for CC ?

[H44]

The pilots are all being rostered a sim session either this month or next to get them current again. There’s a CAA approved alternative training program which will ensure everyone (including cc) are current for the restart.

[Mr A Tis]

I have noticed many shuffling of fleets & circuits being flown from time to time by Ryanair, easyJet & Jet2. However, I have seen barely any TUI UK movements, certainly no circuit flying. Will this make it more difficult / longer for TUI UK to get back up to speed?

[boeing_eng]

No....TUI UK are carrying out Boeing active storage checks which don't involve flying the aircraft!

[737James]

So I have had the email confirmation this morning to confirm that my Tui flights to Cyprus are now going to be operated by SmartLynx on an A320, There is no mention of the extra legroom seats that I have booked though so does this mean that SmartLynx will reconfigure the aircraft so that their A320 will have more legroom in the first 5-6 rows ?

[Mr @ Spotty M]

737James, dream on :(

[737James]

Mr@ Spotty M- Do i need to call them to find out whats happening then ? I have noticed that they are still selling the extra legroom ( Not EM Exit seat) also they still say flight is with Tui.

Before I speak to Tui does anybody know if there are any plans to have SmartLynx aircrfat based at EMA as dont want to change from BHX to then find I am no better off

[double-oscar]

I would wait a little while until operations actually start again as then there will be more certainty about the flying program. If you change your plans now you might find circumstances dictate changes to the flying program which might affect your trip. On a positive note TUI Germany have restarted operations to Palma today.

[ROC10]

Mr@ Spotty M- Do i need to call them to find out whats happening then ? I have noticed that they are still selling the extra legroom ( Not EM Exit seat) also they still say flight is with Tui.

Before I speak to Tui does anybody know if there are any plans to have SmartLynx aircrfat based at EMA as dont want to change from BHX to then find I am no better off

I’d say it’s very unlikely. EMA is pretty much always 3x738, and they tend to keep ACMI ops to their larger bases for the most part (MAN/LGW/BHX).

[Yeehaw22]

When is your flight?

I'd be highly surprised to see ANY acmi ops this year for anyone

[macdo]

So I have had the email confirmation this morning to confirm that my Tui flights to Cyprus are now going to be operated by SmartLynx on an A320, There is no mention of the extra legroom seats that I have booked though so does this mean that SmartLynx will reconfigure the aircraft so that their A320 will have more legroom in the first 5-6 rows ?
Funniest post I've read in days! You'll be lucky to have serviceable aircraft, let alone extra legroom seats!

[737James]

Thank You for all the replies, The flight is due to be at the start of September BHZ-PFO and I have had the joy of spending over 3 hours on the phone to Tui and have been given lots of incorrect telephone numbers and email address all very annoying.

I have asked to switch to EMA flights but have been told it will be an extra £800 which is crazy as still the same dates, hotel, room type and possibly even transfers as inbound flight is just 20 mins later. I have been advised by two different people that at Tui call centre that the SmartLynx aircraft will 100% have the extra legroom seats in the first 5 rows. So I have made a GDPR request for the calls so if they don't i have some evidence to take up a complaint.

Looking through online reports SmartLynx do look rather poor with old, broken aircraft which suffer frequent delays. I am rather surprised that Tui have taken the decision to use them but maybe they are cheap.

Its the BHX based Tui flightdeck crew that are the winners with this as its two PFO and a LCA deep nights each week that they will not be getting on the roster, although at present many would jump at the chance to get back to work

[max_drift]

I can pretty much guarantee you that in the current climate every single TUI flight deck employee will be apoplectic if there is any ACMI work undertaken this year.

There are already questions being asked in relation to this specific post.

[737James]

Max Drift- I did think at first that it was wrong that in the current climate that they are booking pax onto ACMI carriers but on the other hand thought maybe that the commercial contracts were signed before CV19 and they are unable to get out of them where as employees can be on Furlough.

It looks like BHX is planned to have 3 A320s at present hopefully this changes and my holiday can go ahead and on TUI own aircraft

[Cloud1]

Max Drift- I did think at first that it was wrong that in the current climate that they are booking pax onto ACMI carriers but on the other hand thought maybe that the commercial contracts were signed before CV19 and they are unable to get out of them where as employees can be on Furlough.

It looks like BHX is planned to have 3 A320s at present hopefully this changes and my holiday can go ahead and on TUI own aircraft

I think you have hit the nail on the head and before the Unions get their arse in their hands over it I think TUI need to be transparent about it quite early on if they haven’t already been. There is also a handful of leased B737s that were signed off pre Covid which may not now be required but at least one is sitting in TUI colours possibly in Ireland (G-TUKA)

Something I do like is that TUI will always place their own Cabin Crew on to these ACMIs as representation, even if as I experienced the ACMI crew are friendlier and nicer than the TUI crew! Albastar last year, their crew were a delight whereas the TUI representative was somewhat frosty. I don’t know if it is a requirement to do so but at least it helps to distribute some of the cabin crew jobs albeit a very small number.

[Gurnard]

Former Norwegian EI-FHH (to be G-TUKC) is parked at Lasham in TUI colours.

[pabloc]

I can pretty much guarantee you that in the current climate every single TUI flight deck employee will be apoplectic if there is any ACMI work undertaken this year.

There are already questions being asked in relation to this specific post.
And Cabin Crew that we’re still on Temp summer contracts ,some after 4 years,who are back in the hold pool (??)and will be used IF needed...oh and weren’t even furloughed 😤

[737James]

A couple of interesting things to happen today I have been contacted by journalist this morning looking for more info and evidence about Tui outsourcing work to SmartLynx and other ACMI carriers when they start operations but are then using furlough scheme until the end and not taking UK staff back on to recommence operations.

Also TUI have made a public statement to say that they expect late Summer for UK flights to commence with at present that their summer season is only 25% sold as so many customers have amended bookings until 2021, they are hoping to get this up to 35% by the time flights commence so I expect the holiday change team may be busy as I can see cutbacks on frequency of flights especially when they have two flights a day to some destinations like with LCA and PFO from LGW and MAN they have a morning and afternoon flight.

[Cloud1]

A couple of interesting things to happen today I have been contacted by journalist this morning looking for more info and evidence about Tui outsourcing work to SmartLynx and other ACMI carriers when they start operations but are then using furlough scheme until the end and not taking UK staff back on to recommence operations.

Also TUI have made a public statement to say that they expect late Summer for UK flights to commence with at present that their summer season is only 25% sold as so many customers have amended bookings until 2021, they are hoping to get this up to 35% by the time flights commence so I expect the holiday change team may be busy as I can see cutbacks on frequency of flights especially when they have two flights a day to some destinations like with LCA and PFO from LGW and MAN they have a morning and afternoon flight.

I sincerely hope you told the journalists to buggar off and contact TUI themselves. The last thing we need is more hysteria and stirring by the press and least alone from posts made on this site. Anything can change between now and the day of your departure.

[737James]

Cloud1- Yes I have said that he best speak to the Tui press office although my complaint is on Tui social media platforms but as yet they have not even come back to me with an email address to send my formal complaint to. The seat map has opened up today which does show it as a SmartLynx A320

I really do hope that the situation changes and I can travel as planned on Tui aircraft with all their own hardworking crew rather than a second class Eastern European airline with old unreliable aircraft further affecting Tui's already bruised reputation. As other posters have indicated they cannot justify at present times having their own crew at home not flying or even worse laid off while they have a third party contractor offering a lower standard of service and customer satisfaction. This would be fine if we had not had this pandemic as it would be extra capacity to cover for demand.

[double-oscar]

The problem the large travel companies face is that in normal times the booking process is largely automated. Hotels are contracted and flight programs are drawn up months in advance. In a normal season there might be some disruption due to unforeseen events in a particular destination or minor changes to the flying program but overall the changes are minor when compared to the scale of the operation. With lockdown most of these businesses were forced to close down their customer service centres at a time when thousands or even millions of flights were being cancelled. This resulted in a huge amount of customer dissatisfaction as people tried to find out what was happening or obtain refunds. As we move through this crisis companies have been able to reopen their customer service centres and increase the number of agents but there is still a far greater demand for assistance than in a normal season.
As the companies get on top of the refund situation and operations restart there will be further problems. Not all countries will reopen, nor will some hotels and not all flights will operate. At the moment the situation changes on a daily basis. Therefore, many customers will need to be contacted to see if they are happy with the changes or wish to re-book or cancel. This will be very time consuming and I would assume it will be dealt in date order. Hopefully, as time progresses there will be more certainty.

[SWBKCB]

Cloud1- Yes I have said that he best speak to the Tui press office although my complaint is on Tui social media platforms but as yet they have not even come back to me with an email address to send my formal complaint to. The seat map has opened up today which does show it as a SmartLynx A320.

Formal complaint? About what?

[Cloud1]

Cloud1- Yes I have said that he best speak to the Tui press office although my complaint is on Tui social media platforms but as yet they have not even come back to me with an email address to send my formal complaint to. The seat map has opened up today which does show it as a SmartLynx A320

I really do hope that the situation changes and I can travel as planned on Tui aircraft with all their own hardworking crew rather than a second class Eastern European airline with old unreliable aircraft further affecting Tui's already bruised reputation. As other posters have indicated they cannot justify at present times having their own crew at home not flying or even worse laid off while they have a third party contractor offering a lower standard of service and customer satisfaction. This would be fine if we had not had this pandemic as it would be extra capacity to cover for demand.

What is your complaint about? You have taken the opinion of some random posters on here to determine that the airline you are flying on is “second class” with old unreliable aircraft. With all due respect the aircraft successfully operated for Thomas Cook UK last year in their colours and their on time performance was no worse than normal and certainly no evidence to point to those leased aircraft as being the reason for performance issues. There will always be someone who complains about something if they have a delay but that doesn’t mean it is endemic of the entire season operation.

How do you know you will get a lower standard of service and customer satisfaction? You haven’t even got on the bloody thing yet.

Whether TUI use a leased aircraft or not and whether they use their crew or furlough them isn’t really your concern as a paying passenger. Let the Unions pick that up. As long as you get your extra legroom seats or indeed a refund as it will say in the t&cs that they cannot be guaranteed you don’t have a lot to complain about yet surely? I noted your comments about the £800 more to change flights and yes that does sound steep so just stick with what you bought in the first place unless I have missed something in which case I apologise in advance.

The public are too quick to moan and groan about everything. It grates my tits.

[737James]

Cloud1- Although I have not travelled with SmartLynx before I now know people that have both on their A320 and A321 so far I have not seen any positive comments about them online or reviews.

I fully understand that aircraft and airlines can change its the nature of the industry but I personally do not consider Tui and SmartLynx to be of the same standard or level of service & comfort.

The main complaint i wish to register with them is about the way it was dealt with they waited until after the balance had been paid in full to advise of the change, which I now know from speaking to Swissport staff they have had this down as A320 operating my flights since Jan. Also how they can justify the charge to amend the flight to an airport 48 miles away but same everything else. To me they continue to not provide all the information to the consumer at the point of purchase for them to make their informed decision as they still show flights as being operated by Tui and offering Extra legroom seats.

I am very thankful for all users feedback and input, it now appears to be a case of wait and see especially after today's announcement of only operating 35% of planned capacity for the rest of summer 2020

[SWBKCB]

I'd be amazed if their T&C's don't give them the right to change the a/c type and operator, or that a charge will be made for booking changes.

From a contractual point of view, what your opinion is of Tui and SmartLynx is irrelevant - you contract is to get from A to B and back

[JSCL]

I'd be amazed if their T&C's don't give them the right to change the a/c type and operator, or that a charge will be made for booking changes.

From a contractual point of view, what your opinion is of Tui and SmartLynx is irrelevant - you contract is to get from A to B and back
Spot on. You aren’t entitled to a certain aircraft type. You’re entitled to travel at that day and time on that route with TUI.

[Vokes55]

The TUI system hasn’t been updated since March, so any flight that was due to be operated by an ACMI operator - and there were a few due to the Max grounding - will still show as being operated by an ACMI operator. The “confirmation” you received is just what the system is still telling either you or the staff member who confirmed it to you, if that’s the case.

When the U.K. government lifts the FCO advice against all but essential travel, and the company has finalised a revised schedule for the Summer - both of which are expected imminently - the system will be updated. You’ll almost certainly find that your flight times are changed either slightly or significantly and your flight will be on a TUI aircraft.

Not worth panicking over, and certainly not worth any members of the “press” on here getting their knickers in a twist over.

[valefan16]

They are what they are, we booked a Dreamliner from Manchester to Rhodes in 2016, lovely flight over, on the way back it was changed to a 767 which of course is not the same level in terms of comfort but was one of those things and got the money back on our pre booked seating. (Not that I personally minded as maybe fewer chances to fly 767s!)

The Eastern European operators these days are generally decent enough and Smartlynx etc have had very good relationships with the Western operators.

Expect though flights will be condensed so multiple daily flights to destinations pushes into one on a TUI AC etc as pointless if flights are not full sending 2 or 3 flights a day to Palma or Alicante for example this summer.

[pabely]

Remember LH is going to be slower to recover so a few dreamliners can be used on the bucket & spade routes on what was before multiple daily departures, if things recover that well.

[macdo]

You have taken the opinion of some random posters on here to determine that the airline you are flying on is “second class” with old unreliable aircraft. With all due respect the aircraft successfully operated for Thomas Cook UK last year in their colours and their on time performance was no worse than normal and certainly no evidence to point to those leased aircraft as being the reason for performance issues. .

If I still have them on my hard drive, I could show you some evidence that would contradict your assertion. Certain ACMI operators were often top of the hit parade for delays. Out of proportion to the volume of flights that they did. Smartlynx et al., if they survive this crisis, will be back to fly for the holiday operators for the simple reason that they are cheap to use in the summer, the expensive alternative is to finance a summer size fleet yourself.

[LadyL2013]

Hmmmm. Aircraft originally a 787 on booking departing North Terminal now changed to departing South Terminal 'operated by TUI' but appears to be an A321 (so presumably borrowed aircraft) configuration. However never been sent an email informing of aircraft change as you normally get. If the North Terminal is now the operational terminal, I wonder if the aircraft will change back to 787?

[SWBKCB]

Reading previous posts, I think the only thing that is certain is that what ever it says now, it will change...

[L66MBD]

Cloud1- Although I have not travelled with SmartLynx before I now know people that have both on their A320 and A321 so far I have not seen any positive comments about them online or reviews.

I fully understand that aircraft and airlines can change its the nature of the industry but I personally do not consider Tui and SmartLynx to be of the same standard or level of service & comfort.

The main complaint i wish to register with them is about the way it was dealt with they waited until after the balance had been paid in full to advise of the change, which I now know from speaking to Swissport staff they have had this down as A320 operating my flights since Jan. Also how they can justify the charge to amend the flight to an airport 48 miles away but same everything else. To me they continue to not provide all the information to the consumer at the point of purchase for them to make their informed decision as they still show flights as being operated by Tui and offering Extra legroom seats.

I am very thankful for all users feedback and input, it now appears to be a case of wait and see especially after today's announcement of only operating 35% of planned capacity for the rest of summer 2020

Ridiculous- get a life.

[oldbalboy]

Smart Lynx was cancelled due C19 return to flying this summer planned on TUI A/C as it will be a reduced programme.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Taken from Travel Weekly.
Tour operator giant Tui has revealed details of a limited programme of summer holidays in preparation for when government advice not to travel is lifted.
The firm says it is “ready to take Brits on holiday again”.
Eight destinations are in line for a return on July 11 in Greece, the Balearics and the Canaries with flights operating from three UK airports.
Tui plans to add more flights and destinations by the end of July to offer a total of 19 destinations from five UK airports, subject to Government advice.
Does anyone know which three airports, my guess would be LGW, BHX & MAN and what the additional two would be?

[GrahamK]

Taken from Travel Weekly.
Tour operator giant Tui has revealed details of a limited programme of summer holidays in preparation for when government advice not to travel is lifted.
The firm says it is “ready to take Brits on holiday again”.
Eight destinations are in line for a return on July 11 in Greece, the Balearics and the Canaries with flights operating from three UK airports.
Tui plans to add more flights and destinations by the end of July to offer a total of 19 destinations from five UK airports, subject to Government advice.
Does anyone know which three airports, my guess would be LGW, BHX & MAN and what the additional two would be?
GLA and NCL would be my guesses for the extra two

[ericlday]

TUI booking shows Ltn -Tfs starting 17th July, once a week !!!!

[Vokes55]

Bristol almost certainly, then probably Newcastle or Doncaster. With the bulk of the (earlier than English) Scottish summer holidays wiped out, I doubt Scotland will be a priority.

Bristol is fairly central in the SW region, which was due to have 11 based aircraft this summer (BRS/CWL/EXT combined).

TUI booking shows Ltn -Tfs starting 17th July, once a week !!!!

The online booking system hasn’t been updated yet. I’d imagine Luton would be one of the last bases to return, possibly not until the Winter or next Summer.

[LiamNCL]

I would think BRS and NCL additional July two.

[valefan16]

I would think BRS and NCL additional July two.

Surely Glasgow would be one?

Interesting to see what they use on these flights as currently it’s a low number of flights which may quickly sell out, maybe 787’s? (Except CFU of course!)

Expect a rapid increase and inclusion of FUE, LPA, ALC, AGP, ZTH, REU, FAO and MAH surely to be included in the 19 by the end of July?

Good news at least.

[helipixman]

What on earth are TUI up to, their website shows all beach holidays cancelled up to 10th July 2020. I got an email on 28th May 2020 stating that my holiday (23rd June 2020) cannot go ahead due to COVID-19.

So to my amazement I get an email on 19th June 2020 saying as your holiday approaches I want to share some updates on how your holiday will change. I go onto my account on TUI and after logging in it shows the countdown clock saying two days to go ????? I know I am not going, FCO still advise not to travel, Greece will not let UK tourists in yet, somebody needs to tell the TUI system not to confuse their customers ? God forbid elderly customers could get so confused and still travel to the airport ?

Btw still waiting a refund voucher ? but I guess they have until 28 days after my departure date ?

[BHX5DME]

Now confirmed - BHX, MAN & LGW

2 more to follow by end July

[Vokes55]

Surely Glasgow would be one?

Interesting to see what they use on these flights as currently it’s a low number of flights which may quickly sell out, maybe 787’s? (Except CFU of course!)
.

The number of weekly seats quoted divided by the number of weekly flights equals 182, which isn’t far off the 737 load. I’d imagine all flights will be on the same aircraft type initially to minimise the amount of crew being taken off furlough.

I doubt Glasgow will be a priority as mentioned above. Bristol, Doncaster and Newcastle are all bigger, more central bases.

[valefan16]

Interesting, assume if they sell out fast which they may at low numbers they’d look to increase the offering, although sounds like they are just waiting on the FCO confirmation and with schools breaking up on the 17th may be offering more the following week.

Good to see, notice Easyjet appear to be now allowing mid July bookings to Greece for instance too when it was August last week so looks like the air bridges will be up and some summer will be happening!

[ROC10]

So if they're only going to operate from 3 bases, will they provide more capacity from these bases to allow passengers due to fly from other bases an opportunity to fly or will they simply cancel their flights/holidays? For example, perhaps they could provide enough capacity from...
LGW for STN/LTN/BOH/NWI
MAN for DSA
BHX for EMA/NWI etc.

and then later...
GLA for EDI/ABZ
BRS for EXT/CWL etc.

Just some thoughts. It won't go down well if some passengers get to fly and others don't because of where they booked from. I know it may not be feasible though.

[SWBKCB]

Where do the Newcastle passengers go - Germany?

I would imaging that transfers will be offered, it's a moot point whether more capacity will be needed.

[valefan16]

So if they're only going to operate from 3 bases, will they provide more capacity from these bases to allow passengers due to fly from other bases an opportunity to fly or will they simply cancel their flights/holidays? For example, perhaps they could provide enough capacity from...
LGW for STN/LTN/BOH/NWI
MAN for DSA
BHX for EMA/NWI etc.

and then later...
GLA for EDI/ABZ
BRS for EXT/CWL etc.

Just some thoughts. It won't go down well if some passengers get to fly and others don't because of where they booked from. I know it may not be feasible though.

Cant see them turning people away if the demand is there. Sure they will add flights in if they get booked up fast and work that way to avoid sending mainly empty planes at first.

If the government announced the plans earlier it would help rather than the rumoured list on Monday next week for it to be lifted only 5 days later.

Fair few options from the middle of July to Greece and Spain with FR, EZY and WZZ along with Jet2 if they stick to their July 15 restart so imagine they will quickly look to expand what they offer in time for the school holidays.

I am a little surprised they have started with essentially only 3 aircraft flying for the initial start.

[TimmyW]

I hope doncaster is on. I doubt we would survive the rest of the year with one or two Wizz flights a day, if they ever resume.

[ROC10]

Cant see them turning people away if the demand is there. Sure they will add flights in if they get booked up fast and work that way to avoid sending mainly empty planes at first.

If the government announced the plans earlier it would help rather than the rumoured list on Monday next week for it to be lifted only 5 days later.

Fair few options from the middle of July to Greece and Spain with FR, EZY and WZZ along with Jet2 if they stick to their July 15 restart so imagine they will quickly look to expand what they offer in time for the school holidays.

I am a little surprised they have started with essentially only 3 aircraft flying for the initial start.

I would hope so. I have flights booked with TUI for the 16th July and was initially very pleased to see this news until I saw that only those 3 bases would be operating and none of them are close to the base I'm booked from which is disappointing.

[TimmyW]

Some posters on Twitter suggesting the 5 bases will be until next summer, when TUI will relook at things. Seems a lot of the smaller bases may be closing.

[Yeehaw22]

Some posters on Twitter suggesting the 5 bases will be until next summer, when TUI will relook at things. Seems a lot of the smaller bases may be closing.

Not true..

[TimmyW]

Not true..


As I said, posters on Twitter.

It does seem a very slow restart compared to others.

[Yeehaw22]

As I said, posters on Twitter.

It does seem a very slow restart compared to others.

compared to what? Have jet2 released their restart plans yet?

[ford cortina]

compared to what? Have jet2 released their restart plans yet?

Good friend of mine at Jet2 is still waiting at home, not heard a thing. Of course almost all their crews need 3 Take Off and landings in the sim to get recency, not a lot of time to do that. Ryanair have had their sims and those of CAE across Europe working overtime for tthe last 5 /6 weeks making sure all their pilots are ready.
It's very quiet in the Leeds portacabins

[LadyL2013]

In regards to aircraft used, I'd imagine from say, September onwards they would use the original aircraft planned as I think a lot of people with prior bookings would be waiting to see what happened without amending anything.

[True Blue]

As far as I see Bfs is still on sale from mid July. They would hardly cancel these at this late stage. I checked Turkey and Greece.

[hyallop]

Some posters on Twitter suggesting the 5 bases will be until next summer, when TUI will relook at things. Seems a lot of the smaller bases may be closing.

incorrect - the small bases with only one aircraft have commitment from the airline and tour operator - just unlikely to see them open in the short term

[Mr @ Spotty M]

My guess is that there will be a number of holiday makers being driven from there planned departure airport to one of the three airports in use, unless there holiday has been cancelled.
My belief is all TUI has to do is get you to your booked accommodation for the dates booked, how they get you there and back is up to them.

[valefan16]

compared to what? Have jet2 released their restart plans yet?

Ryanair have a lot of flights to Spain and Greece on offer in July, 2 a week from some islands in Greece from my local at EMA for instance alone, so TUI operating only 3 aircraft across the U.K. is a bit surprising, easyJet have a few options for Greece/Spain and Wizz with their new Greek routes from LTN.

Although they do say by the end of July 19 destinations from 5 airports so nothing to say that wouldn’t be the case from say the second week of ops.

[Yeehaw22]

Ryanair have a lot of flights to Spain and Greece on offer in July, 2 a week from some islands in Greece from my local at EMA for instance alone, so TUI operating only 3 aircraft across the U.K. is a bit surprising,.

3 aircraft? Its 3 bases.

Its a lot simpler for ryanair don't forget. They provide a flight. The likes of Tui and jet2 have the flights, transfers, hotels, in resort staff, even down to how to provide meals at the all inclusives to organise.

It was always going to be a slow restart to ops. Even more so for the package tour operators.

[ROC10]

My guess is that there will be a number of holiday makers being driven from there planned departure airport to one of the three airports in use, unless there holiday has been cancelled.
My belief is all TUI has to do is get you to your booked accommodation for the dates booked, how they get you there and back is up to them.

I also think this may happen as it would seem silly to cancel existing bookings when they so desperately need that custom. I hope they at least prioritise giving those with existing bookings at other bases the choice to move (or rather, agree to being bussed) to one of the "big 3" bases before they put the flights on sale to the masses without informing said customers who may then find the flights all fully booked.

Obviously it will be inconvenient for both passenger and airline to travel potentially hundreds of miles to an alternative base but if customers are willing then it would seem the best option. If they only operate the flights for LGW/MAN/BHX pax, there will be significant under-utilisation of fleet so by operating more (or larger) flights from these bases including the displaced pax they'd be making more money and keeping everyone a bit happier. However, they will obviously need to ensure they can cover this in terms of staffing (surely they will?).

If they manage to make at least a reasonably good job of that then they'd impress customers and they'd be more likely to book again. Cancelling people's flights/holidays simply because they booked from a smaller base would inevitably leave many with a sour taste (certainly true for myself with a booking around 4 weeks from now).

[inOban]

It can also be argued that flying by FR or EZY to stay in their own or someone else's flat is much less likely to cause an infection cluster than tui or Jet2 flying customers to an all-inclusive resort with communal facilities.

[ROC10]

3 aircraft? Its 3 bases.

Its a lot simpler for ryanair don't forget. They provide a flight. The likes of Tui and jet2 have the flights, transfers, hotels, in resort staff, even down to how to provide meals at the all inclusives to organise.

It was always going to be a slow restart to ops. Even more so for the package tour operators.

I think the point was that since so few flights will be operating from each base, it will effectively be like only operating three aircraft.

[valefan16]

I think the point was that since so few flights will be operating from each base, it will effectively be like only operating three aircraft.

Works out to start with around 13-14 flights a base so I assume one aircraft doing two a day was how I calculated it based on 44 flights.

[Spanish eyes]

So it is the case that less operating aircraft means packed aircraft due to consolidation. My family is now grown up but the perceived danger would still stop me booking any holiday abroad this year. Tough choice for those that had already booked. Go or lose your money.

[FQTLSteve]

As you're in Leicestershire it can't be a long slog to BHX surely?

[Flying Hi]

As you're in Leicestershire it can't be a long slog to BHX surely?
We're in W Mids but prefer the 'slog' to EMA rather than the bun fight that is BHX. But likely EMA is not on Ze Leest.😀

[ATNotts]

We're in W Mids but prefer the 'slog' to EMA rather than the bun fight that is BHX. But likely EMA is not on Ze Leest.😀

Bun fight? Unless cafes are opened you'll be hard pressed to find any buns!!

Seriously, I really can't see how the unpleasant experience of travelling from the northwest of Birmingham to EMA is less than flying through BHX. By the time you've parked somewhere near Melbourne, and nowhere near the terminal, then socially distanced on a transfer bus lugging 20kg each of "holiday essentials", the comparatively short walk from the BHX onsite carparks to the terminal must be a less stressful experience - but each to their own.

[valefan16]

Bun fight? Unless cafes are opened you'll be hard pressed to find any buns!!

Seriously, I really can't see how the unpleasant experience of travelling from the northwest of Birmingham to EMA is less than flying through BHX. By the time you've parked somewhere near Melbourne, and nowhere near the terminal, then socially distanced on a transfer bus lugging 20kg each of "holiday essentials", the comparatively short walk from the BHX onsite carparks to the terminal must be a less stressful experience - but each to their own.

Love EMA its my home airport and grew up falling in love with aviation there at the old aeropark but have to agree it is pretty tight in the departures at EMA and always seems to be building work going on.

Needs a new terminal really to push on.

[737James]

After my recent complaint and worries about flying with SmartLynx, I did get a call with a senior operations manager from Tui Airways and a Customer service manager on Friday they said that they could not tell me then but there was a major update to be announced on Monday morning for Summer 2020 which as obviously now been done.

They both said that in my case Cyprus would be available by end of July and that my flights to Paphos from Birmingham in September they were looking at combining that with the Larnarca service and using a 787 but were unsure which airport the flight would operate into. This does kind of make sense as PFO departs at 14:25 and LCA at 14:35 especially if pax numbers are not that high and it is only about 60-70 miles between the two airports

[Flying Hi]

Bun fight? Unless cafes are opened you'll be hard pressed to find any buns!!

Seriously, I really can't see how the unpleasant experience of travelling from the northwest of Birmingham to EMA is less than flying through BHX. By the time you've parked somewhere near Melbourne, and nowhere near the terminal, then socially distanced on a transfer bus lugging 20kg each of "holiday essentials", the comparatively short walk from the BHX onsite carparks to the terminal must be a less stressful experience - but each to their own.
Sorry for the thread drift but -
Chez Flying Hi to BHX - M54 >M6 (bottleneck) > M6 to BHX via M6/M5 interchange and Spag Junction (slow, often stationary) > pre-warn Meet @ Greet prior to arriving BHX > wait till they turn up!
Time - 1 hour to 1 hour 15.
Chez Flying Hi to EMA - A5 > M6Toll > M69/A69 - EMA meet and greet ON AIRPORT 100 mtrs from Departures door. Car available on return just 50 mtrs from Arrivals exit door.
Time - 1 hour 15 (never been longer even at busy times)
Inside terminal EMA is a much quieter, more relaxed experience IMO.

[TimmyW]

Next summer seems largely unchanged at the moment still.

[GAXLN]

Next summer seems largely unchanged at the moment still.

Do not forget that Summer 20 is a more pressing issue for them. Plenty of time to sort out Summer 21 once things are clearer.

[ATNotts]

Sorry for the thread drift but -
Chez Flying Hi to BHX - M54 >M6 (bottleneck) > M6 to BHX via M6/M5 interchange and Spag Junction (slow, often stationary) > pre-warn Meet @ Greet prior to arriving BHX > wait till they turn up!
Time - 1 hour to 1 hour 15.
Chez Flying Hi to EMA - A5 > M6Toll > M69/A69 - EMA meet and greet ON AIRPORT 100 mtrs from Departures door. Car available on return just 50 mtrs from Arrivals exit door.
Time - 1 hour 15 (never been longer even at busy times)
Inside terminal EMA is a much quieter, more relaxed experience IMO.

If you don't mind paying Midland Expressway's extortionate tolls, and MAG's extortionate, (though moderated after an outcry), drop off charges then you're right, EMA is a tad better in terms of pick-up / drop-off.

[inOban]

If you don't mind paying Midland Expressway's extortionate tolls, and MAG's extortionate, (though moderated after an outcry), drop off charges then you're right, EMA is a tad better in terms of pick-up / drop-off.
Couldn't you leave the car locally and get the train to Birmingham International?

[matjr79]

Was supposed to be flying this weekend MAN-LCA..fortunately got given a credit voucher and rebooked for June 2021.
Any AC Types in the system that far in advance?

BY2418/24Jun MAN-LCA.
BY2701/04Jun LCA-MAN

Matjr79

[yeo valley]

Was supposed to be flying this weekend MAN-LCA..fortunately got given a credit voucher and rebooked for June 2021.
Any AC Types in the system that far in advance?

BY2418/24Jun MAN-LCA.
BY2701/04Jun LCA-MAN

Matjr79
I would make sure and keep checking the flight in 21 will go ahead,rather than worry about which aircraft will operate the flight.

[pamann]

Was supposed to be flying this weekend MAN-LCA..fortunately got given a credit voucher and rebooked for June 2021.
Any AC Types in the system that far in advance?

BY2418/24Jun MAN-LCA.
BY2701/04Jun LCA-MAN

Matjr79

Only way you can find out that information so far in advance is to book extra legroom seats, it will then give you access to the seat plan.

[matjr79]

Only way you can find out that information so far in advance is to book extra legroom seats, it will then give you access to the seat plan.


Need to pay in advance to get to the Seat plan.
i just wanted to avoid the MAX.. 75/76 ideal.
Or pay more for the Dreamliner flights which is extra £93 pp.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

matjr79
Well you wont be on the B757 as they will be all gone by then.

[matjr79]

matjr79
Well you wont be on the B757 as they will be all gone by then.

Sad to hear.. Row 6 any 757.. RB211 Porn

[ROC10]

Does anyone know when TUI are likely to actually inform customers that their flights are cancelled? I am booked to fly with them on 16 July and I know the flight is cancelled as it's not from LGW/MAN/BHX and has been removed from the timetable. However, I haven't heard anything from TUI and while I'm aware it's very early, I'm also aware of how late they often leave communication and want to be able to make a decision on what to do next.

My first option would appear to be to amend to the MAN flight on the same day which seems to have enough free seats but this would be very inconvenient. The second option would be to delay the holiday by two weeks and fly from a near-ish base to where I am booked from (one of the two that will start at the end of July). The third option is to change airline. Jet2 are currently saying they will start on the 15th and are selling flights on the 16th to my destination but I'm not entirely convinced they'll jump straight into full-ops and have no confidence that my airport will be one of the "chosen" few to start first.

We've got some thinking to do but it's difficult with so much uncertainty (I'm still hopeful that TUI may contact us and offer a coach to MAN but again, have no confidence that they will do this).