TUI Airways

[BHD2BFS]

Does tui have plans to increase operation at bfs?

[Plane mad 134]

And any plans to expand EDI/GLA?

[LiamNCL]

And any plans to expand EDI/GLA?

GLA was mentioned along with NCL MAN DSA & BHX

[Severn]

BRS has a based 787 in S20 and it is currently planned to operate a mix of short, mid and long-haul flights:
Mon: LPA / BOJ
Tue: CUN
Wed: PMI / LCA
Thu: SFB
Fri: CUN
Sat: PMI / DLM
Sun: HER / AYT

[inOban]

And any plans to expand EDI/GLA?
TCX didn't operate out of EDI (OK, think they offered some destinations using EZY and in S18 they offered Antalya ? on a W pattern.)
I'm always surprised that they don't offer a substantial longhaul program from Edinburgh. They steal a 787 from another base to provide just four weeks of trips to Florida and Mexico.

[ROC10]

TCX didn't operate out of EDI (OK, think they offered some destinations using EZY and in S18 they offered Antalya ? on a W pattern.)
I'm always surprised that they don't offer a substantial longhaul program from Edinburgh. They steal a 787 from another base to provide just four weeks of trips to Florida and Mexico.

Yes, I’ve always said I think they’d do very well on long haul out of EDI, on CUN and SFB, but even on some other l/h destinations, especially if not served at GLA. Even basing a 787 at GLA and using this for regular EDI flights would make sense. I don’t think we’ll see more EDI flights any time soon but a GLA 787 base could be on the cards, especially with the loss of TCX.

[LBAflyer22]

BRS has a based 787 in S20 and it is currently planned to operate a mix of short, mid and long-haul flights:
Mon: LPA / BOJ
Tue: CUN
Wed: PMI / LCA
Thu: SFB
Fri: CUN
Sat: PMI / DLM
Sun: HER / AYT

Great for BRS. But little to no difference to S19. I think this summer a 78 went to Cape Verde.

[Yeehaw22]

Great for BRS. But little to no difference to S19. I think this summer a 78 went to Cape Verde.

Why are you always so negative on this thread? Maybe your username implies an allegiance to another company but being so down on everything on this thread is getting tiring.

[EZYMAN]

738 made a Regular trip to Cape Verde from BRS

[LBAflyer22]

Why are you always so negative on this thread? Maybe your username implies an allegiance to another company but being so down on everything on this thread is getting tiring.

Why is pointing out little difference to the previous summer negative may I ask? It’s brilliant for the local economy and airport of BRS that TUI plan to station a 787 for the whole of summer 2020 and proves the market can sustain the 787. Brilliant for TUI good for the airport. I don’t get how I’m been negative on this. It’s not like it’s something brand new for the airport in S20 I’m just saying little difference to the S19.

Id also like to point out my previous post was simply responding to someone who said the PR of 2,000,000 extra seats (which a further post up there has pointed out it’s not mathematically possible without significant aircraft acquisitions) maybe a clear message to Jet2. I, quite rightly, pointed out I doubt at as it was a PR exercise and that’s it. There has been little proof of this expansion yet! Flip reverse it and Jet2 today have put some significant expansion out of MAN and further out of LBA and BHX and a new route. The announcement, apart from the LBA news, is yet to happen. TUI have shouted but are yet to put it on sale.

Im Yorkshire bloke, im Leeds based so obviously I appreciate Jet2 as it’s good for the local economy. However I understand the aviation industry (which I have a degree in) to understand competition is always good. I want TUI to expand and give Jet2 competition.

Oh and just for the record - id love a 4th based unit at DSA

[LBAflyer22]

738 made a Regular trip to Cape Verde from BRS

that I didn’t know. Interesting - didn’t think a 738 could do that? I know a 757 would eat the BRS-Cape Verde route for breakfast. Did it tech stop?

[ROC10]

that I didn’t know. Interesting - didn’t think a 738 could do that? I know a 757 would eat the BRS-Cape Verde route for breakfast. Did it tech stop?

This route has traditionally been on the 757 and was for W17 and W18 as recent examples. For S18, TUI upgraded the route to 788. Then for S19, the route moved to the 738. There was never a tech stop.

It is currently back on the 757 and has been since the beginning of October due to fewer routes this month. I’m not sure what the plans are for W19 at BRS but could well return to the 738 in November,

[CabinCrewe]

would have thought well within 738 range. Isnt it similar to some of the Egypt routes?
And 788 seems overkill.

[Yeehaw22]

Why is pointing out little difference to the previous summer negative may I ask? It’s brilliant for the local economy and airport of BRS that TUI plan to station a 787 for the whole of summer 2020 and proves the market can sustain the 787. Brilliant for TUI good for the airport. I don’t get how I’m been negative on this. It’s not like it’s something brand new for the airport in S20 I’m just saying little difference to the S19.

Id also like to point out my previous post was simply responding to someone who said the PR of 2,000,000 extra seats (which a further post up there has pointed out it’s not mathematically possible without significant aircraft acquisitions) maybe a clear message to Jet2. I, quite rightly, pointed out I doubt at as it was a PR exercise and that’s it. There has been little proof of this expansion yet! Flip reverse it and Jet2 today have put some significant expansion out of MAN and further out of LBA and BHX and a new route. The announcement, apart from the LBA news, is yet to happen. TUI have shouted but are yet to put it on sale.

Im Yorkshire bloke, im Leeds based so obviously I appreciate Jet2 as it’s good for the local economy. However I understand the aviation industry (which I have a degree in) to understand competition is always good. I want TUI to expand and give Jet2 competition.

Oh and just for the record - id love a 4th based unit at DSA

Because every time anyone posts anything you talk it down. Whether it's because your a realist or just being negative I genuinely dont know, but to me it comes across negative.

Yes the 2m thing is a massive pr exercise, but it will be backed up or they are going to look pretty stupid. Theres already an increase on 3rd party seats coming online and I suspect a larger amount to come. There will be additional airframes coming, the pilot recruitment shows that, but from where no one is sure yet.

Dont forget the sad demise of thomas cook has brought TUI a lot of work to do. Sorting end of summer 19 bookings on Thomas cook flights, then winter 19 flights, that along side the max issues, End of leases etc. Its amazing they're expanding at all as the german mothership is renowned for being conservative. Give it a couple of weeks to see what gets announced rather than getting negative right from the off.

[LBAflyer22]

would have thought well within 738 range. Isnt it similar to some of the Egypt routes?
And 788 seems overkill.

BRS has a short runway and typical weather to LBA - only advantage is into wind. I’ve never seen TUI use a 738 on UK-Cape Verde routes.

i suspect this winter the 763 will rotate through Verde.

788 to Verde - was this when Turkey suffered a little decline?

[MerchantVenturer]

BRS has a based 787 in S20 and it is currently planned to operate a mix of short, mid and long-haul flights:
Mon: LPA / BOJ
Tue: CUN
Wed: PMI / LCA
Thu: SFB
Fri: CUN
Sat: PMI / DLM
Sun: HER / AYT


Why is pointing out little difference to the previous summer negative may I ask? It’s brilliant for the local economy and airport of BRS that TUI plan to station a 787 for the whole of summer 2020 and proves the market can sustain the 787. Brilliant for TUI good for the airport. I don’t get how I’m been negative on this. It’s not like it’s something brand new for the airport in S20 I’m just saying little difference to the S19.


There is some expansion at BRS for summer 2020 over summer 2019 in terms of the Boeing 787-8. In 2019 the aircraft was 'based' for five days each week - the current plans for next summer are for it to be there every day of the week as Severn has indicated.

Summer 2019 saw this programme:

Tuesday: Cancun
Wednesday: Dalaman
Thursday: Dubrovnik, Larnaca
Friday: Sanford
Saturday: Cancun

The long-haul programme remains the same (3 per week) in 2020 but short-haul has been increased from 3 per week to 8 per week.

[LiamNCL]

There is some expansion at BRS for summer 2020 over summer 2019 in terms of the Boeing 787-8. In 2019 the aircraft was 'based' for five days each week - the current plans for next summer are for it to be there every day of the week as Severn has indicated.

Summer 2019 saw this programme:

Tuesday: Cancun
Wednesday: Dalaman
Thursday: Dubrovnik, Larnaca
Friday: Sanford
Saturday: Cancun

The long-haul programme remains the same (3 per week) in 2020 but short-haul has been increased from 3 per week to 8 per week.

Ive heard it was between BRS & NCL on which one got the 787 based and BRS won out ? Great for BRS anyway great aircraft.

[azz767]

There is some expansion at BRS for summer 2020 over summer 2019 in terms of the Boeing 787-8. In 2019 the aircraft was 'based' for five days each week - the current plans for next summer are for it to be there every day of the week as Severn has indicated.

Summer 2019 saw this programme:

Tuesday: Cancun
Wednesday: Dalaman
Thursday: Dubrovnik, Larnaca
Friday: Sanford
Saturday: Cancun

The long-haul programme remains the same (3 per week) in 2020 but short-haul has been increased from 3 per week to 8 per week.

was this done on a long haul 787 with premium or a short haul one with all economy? Great for some pax if it was in a long haul config

[LBAflyer22]

Because every time anyone posts anything you talk it down. Whether it's because your a realist or just being negative I genuinely dont know, but to me it comes across negative.

Yes the 2m thing is a massive pr exercise, but it will be backed up or they are going to look pretty stupid. Theres already an increase on 3rd party seats coming online and I suspect a larger amount to come. There will be additional airframes coming, the pilot recruitment shows that, but from where no one is sure yet.

Dont forget the sad demise of thomas cook has brought TUI a lot of work to do. Sorting end of summer 19 bookings on Thomas cook flights, then winter 19 flights, that along side the max issues, End of leases etc. Its amazing they're expanding at all as the german mothership is renowned for being conservative. Give it a couple of weeks to see what gets announced rather than getting negative right from the off.

I’m a realist more the anything. I want them to be successful but I’m one of these guys - do the work and sing about it not sing and then do the work.

TUI have a reputation at my local airport for announcing programmes and then canning them.Or adding a route then sending all booked customers to MAN and canning that route. Maybe I’m a realist because of that. Like I’ve said before we shall see. And I can’t wait to see what they are going to offer, but I’d rather the PR be done after the work.

[ROC10]

was this done on a long haul 787 with premium or a short haul one with all economy? Great for some pax if it was in a long haul config

Long-haul config as the aircraft also flew l/h routes three days a week from BRS and 2 days a week from EMA/EDI (dependent on season).

[ROC10]

BRS has a short runway and typical weather to LBA - only advantage is into wind. I’ve never seen TUI use a 738 on UK-Cape Verde routes.

i suspect this winter the 763 will rotate through Verde.

788 to Verde - was this when Turkey suffered a little decline?

It is well known that BRS has a short runway but as has been mentioned, the 738 has operated BRS-SID-BRS all summer without any tech stops, along with the likes of BRS-HRG-BRS. Last year the 788 was used all summer on BRS-SID-BRS but TUI switched that over to DLM this year. I highly doubt TUI will use a 763 out of regional airports to Cape Verde during winter months, I do think they are planning to fly MAN-SID on the 763 this winter though. I think with BVC, they are pretty much stuck with the 757 if they want to go non-stop both ways; the 738 can’t do the inbound to the UK and I don’t think the airport can accommodate wide-bodies – correct me if I’m wrong.

[Vokes55]

. I think with BVC, they are pretty much stuck with the 757 if they want to go non-stop both ways; the 738 can’t do the inbound to the UK and I don’t think the airport can accommodate wide-bodies – correct me if I’m wrong.


BVC can take the 763 (and did once a week last winter from ARN) but not the 787 (yet).

I believe the 763 will be going into BVC 5x per week this Winter, including 3x from Scandinavia.

[HH6702]

Just seen a report that TUI will put the above on sale next month on the 7th nov

Should be interesting to what they have planned

[MerchantVenturer]

was this done on a long haul 787 with premium or a short haul one with all economy? Great for some pax if it was in a long haul config

Just to add a bit to ROC10's reply, on a few occasions this summer and last summer the outbound BRS-CUN had to make an en-route fuel stop if anticipated route weather conditions were unfavourable. In 2018 the stop tended to be at MAN, and at EMA this year. Sanford seems in reach non-stop all the time.

A 9 series was occasionally substituted for an 8 this summer - presumably because of unavailability - and on the 14 June, for example, a 9 series flew to Sanford non-stop, according to FR24. The scheduled 8 series was stuck in Larnaca at that time. In a report dated 16 July this year Routesonline reported that both BRS-CUN and BRS-SFB will be operated by a 9 series through most of April next year.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/285397/tui-airways-uk-schedules-additional-787-9-routes-in-w19/

[Severn]

B787s in S20

The 2x new B787s due before S20 have already been allocated to LGW and MAN, 1x at each.

LGW will then require 6x B787s to be based and 4x will be required at MAN (one of which will operate from DSA 2x days a week). Both bases see the aircraft operate a mix of long and short haul.

1x aircraft will be based at BRS, operating long and short haul.
1x aircraft will be based at BHX, operating only long haul.
1x aircraft will be shared between NCL (2x or 4x days per week) and GLA (4x or 2x days per week), plus BHX (1x day per week) operating only long haul flights.
1x aircraft (usually a B787-9) is then kept as a operational spare (seemed to be MAN based during S19)

Given the TCX situation this may all now change, but this is how the timetable currently stands.

[ROC10]

B787s in S20

The 2x new B787s due before S20 have already been allocated to LGW and MAN, 1x at each.

LGW will then require 6x B787s to be based and 4x will be required at MAN (one of which will operate from DSA 2x days a week). Both bases see the aircraft operate a mix of long and short haul.

1x aircraft will be based at BRS, operating long and short haul.
1x aircraft will be based at BHX, operating only long haul.
1x aircraft will be shared between NCL (2x or 4x days per week) and GLA (4x or 2x days per week), plus BHX (1x day per week) operating only long haul flights.
1x aircraft (usually a B787-9) is then kept as a operational spare (seemed to be MAN based during S19)

Given the TCX situation this may all now change, but this is how the timetable currently stands.

Interesting. And assuming the 2x 763 will be back at MAN, both bases will have 6x wide-bodies. Do you know the split of 8s and 9s? I’m guessing either 3 at each (with one of MAN’s probably being the spare) or 4 at LGW and 2 at MAN.

Im a bit surprised that the GLA/NCL 787 is also due to be operating from BHX once a week – seems a tad inefficient to ferry it all the way down there just to go back up again. Did TCX fly long-haul from BHX? If not, I’d wager that possibly the day at BHX may be switched to GLA to cover lost TCX l/h capacity there. Just my thoughts, probably won’t happen.

[Tomexmyt]

Surely this should be Winter 2020/2021, seeing as their website only goes up to October 2020. Bit early for Summer 2021....

[rog747]

Surely this should be Winter 2020/2021, seeing as their website only goes up to October 2020. Bit early for Summer 2021....

Seems TUI are having a Summer 2021 & Winter 2021 launch party on Nov 7th

Companies are wanting folk to book ahead - Cunard have just opened 2021 cruise sales and some cabins are sold out already on some voyages.

[ROC10]

Surely this should be Winter 2020/2021, seeing as their website only goes up to October 2020. Bit early for Summer 2021....

Nope, pretty sure they did the same last year. Essentially they ‘provisionally’ released S20 in Nov 2018 but I believe they made some changes until spring 2019 when they previously would’ve released the following summer’s flights.

[marko1]

Nope, pretty sure they did the same last year. Essentially they ‘provisionally’ released S20 in Nov 2018 but I believe they made some changes until spring 2019 when they previously would’ve released the following summer’s flights.

its usually a carbon copy of existing summer schedules. New schedules appear the following April

[FlyingScotland]

GLA appears to be getting a dedicated 787 with CUN now showing 4x weekly, SFB x2 and weekly to MBJ.

[Yeehaw22]

Sure that isn't just peak school holidays? As that's been the case for a few weeks in July for a couple of years.

[ROC10]

GLA appears to be getting a dedicated 787 with CUN now showing 4x weekly, SFB x2 and weekly to MBJ.

After a quick look at the online timetable it certainly doesn’t look like a full time 787 all summer. The days of CUN flights vary significantly week-by-week, with some weeks having 2 flights and others 3 or 4. SFB is only 2 weekly for a few weeks in June/July and MBJ only runs for a similar amount of time.

[LiamNCL]

Some new S20 destinations showing for NCL , JTR & JSI. Taking a WED in S20 AM departures showing 4x Based +1 on S19

[ROC10]

So far I make the changes to be:

Short-haul a/c

BRS +2
GLA +1 (plus potential full time 787?)
NCL +1
DSA +1
BHX +1 (?)
BOH +0.4 approx
EXT +0.4 approx
LGW/MAN ??
Other bases ??

With regards to the BOH/EXT increases, I have not personally checked the website, but have read from others that each bases will see an additional a/c 3 days per week. Originally the plan seemed to be that BOH would take a LTN a/c from Fri-Sun. Provided this is still the case, perhaps EXT will take one of the extra BRS a/c from Mon-Wed? Another possibility is that one a/c is used exclusively for the BOH/EXT increases, moving between the two bases.

Please correct me or fill in the gaps in my knowledge by addressing the question marked areas above or any other points people have picked up.

[Dropoffcharge]

Another possibility is that one a/c is used exclusively for the BOH/EXT increases, moving between the two bases

Was a rumour of the BOH aircraft being a Thurs-Sun operation, so the above makes sense if that's correct. It would mean the announcement of more routes obviously, so guess is wait and see on that one.

[ROC10]

On a side note, G-OOBG looks to have been wfu for the second time this morning. It flew from GLA-DGX and has been replaced at GLA by G-TAWA, alongside G-TAWO.

[pamann]

Looking at Summer 2020 the Luton (HQ) operation looks tiny in comparison to recent years. I know this year was scaled back, but next year looks to be a handful of destinations at best, with what looks like just a single based airplane?

Changing times.

[ROC10]

Looking at Summer 2020 the Luton (HQ) operation looks tiny in comparison to recent years. I know this year was scaled back, but next year looks to be a handful of destinations at best, with what looks like just a single based airplane?

Changing times.

It has been a single 757 for this entire summer (with a couple of inward w-patterns), with an additional 738 coming in for only a few weeks in the peak summer.

I reckon there’s a good chance this will be reduced to a single 737 next summer.

[ROC10]

It looks like GLA and NCL will lose all of their w-patterns from ABZ next summer as these will no longer be needed with the addition of a based a/c at both. These included PMI on Tue and Sat, DLM on Thu and CFU on Fri.

After a quick look at the website, these flights are still showing as outward w-patterns from ABZ. I can’t see where they are ‘w-ing’ to at the moment but it’s possible this hasn’t been decided/updated yet. Perhaps some growth at other bases will come from the likes of this as opposed to additional based a/c.

[mart901]

It looks like GLA and NCL will lose all of their w-patterns from ABZ next summer as these will no longer be needed with the addition of a based a/c at both. These included PMI on Tue and Sat, DLM on Thu and CFU on Fri.

After a quick look at the website, these flights are still showing as outward w-patterns from ABZ. I can’t see where they are ‘w-ing’ to at the moment but it’s possible this hasn’t been decided/updated yet. Perhaps some growth at other bases will come from the likes of this as opposed to additional based a/c.
Would that be BFS for the W's?

[ROC10]

Would that be BFS for the W's?

Perhaps, the times for CFU and DLM do suggest ABZ-XXX-BFS-XXX-ABZ but neither of the Tuesday or Saturday Palma flights do.

[Plane mad 134]

EDI-DLM receives an extra weekly flight taking it from 2x weekly to 3x weekly, flights will be on another airline and it will be away based.

[pabely]

I wonder how quickly TUI will return to SSH now that UK Gov have lifted ban? I remember the waves of TUI flights arriving from LGW, MAN, LUT, STN, BHX, & BRS. Always popular. With the extra UK boarder security working in HUG it was only time before SSH came up to speed.

[Travel Agent]

I wonder how quickly TUI will return to SSH now that UK Gov have lifted ban? I remember the waves of TUI flights arriving from LGW, MAN, LUT, STN, BHX, & BRS. Always popular. With the extra UK boarder security working in HUG it was only time before SSH came up to speed.

According to travel press they will definitely do it, but does not give estimated start date

[LiamNCL]

I wonder how quickly TUI will return to SSH now that UK Gov have lifted ban? I remember the waves of TUI flights arriving from LGW, MAN, LUT, STN, BHX, & BRS. Always popular. With the extra UK boarder security working in HUG it was only time before SSH came up to speed.

TUI flew 2x a week to SSH along with TCX from Newcastle aswell. It was a popular place i flew there on G-CPEU from NCL on TOM859 when it was still in First Choice colours and cream leather interior! Good times.

[Matt995]

So far I make the changes to be:

Short-haul a/c

BRS +2
GLA +1 (plus potential full time 787?)
NCL +1
DSA +1
BHX +1 (?)
BOH +0.4 approx
EXT +0.4 approx
LGW/MAN ??
Other bases ??

With regards to the BOH/EXT increases, I have not personally checked the website, but have read from others that each bases will see an additional a/c 3 days per week. Originally the plan seemed to be that BOH would take a LTN a/c from Fri-Sun. Provided this is still the case, perhaps EXT will take one of the extra BRS a/c from Mon-Wed? Another possibility is that one a/c is used exclusively for the BOH/EXT increases, moving between the two bases.

Please correct me or fill in the gaps in my knowledge by addressing the question marked areas above or any other points people have picked up.


BHX should be a 10 aircraft base for Summer 2020, 9 short haul, and 1 787 long haul, up one extra aircraft.

[rog747]

If TUI do not have the MAX back then any flying program (which was large) from UK to SSH next year then they do not have enough a/c to do this as yet.

[craigyton2]

I've justed noticed that TUI have added flights to Antalya, Herakleion and Skiathos from EMA for summer 2020 , with various other increases on other routes too. Could this be an extra based frame? And sorry if it sounds like a silly question but can a 738 do EMA to JSI direct?

[rog747]

I've justed noticed that TUI have added flights to Antalya, Herakleion and Skiathos from EMA for summer 2020 , with various other increases on other routes too. Could this be an extra based frame? And sorry if it sounds like a silly question but can a 738 do EMA to JSI direct?

A 738 can do JSI direct from anywhere in the UK - It is the return out of JSI that is MTOW limited due to short field length.
The 757's can get back without a stop but A321's and 738's need to drink on the way home and will stop at CFU KVA SKG Volos Pula DBV and PVZ amongst places to take on fuel.
They can do non-stop back to UK with a lower payload such as early season when flights are not full on the way home.

[ROC10]

A 738 can do JSI direct from anywhere in the UK - It is the return out of JSI that is MTOW limited due to short field length.
The 757's can get back without a stop but A321's and 738's need to drink on the way home and will stop at CFU KVA SKG Volos Pula DBV and PVZ amongst places to take on fuel.
They can do non-stop back to UK with a lower payload such as early season when flights are not full on the way home.

TUI have used the 738 to JSI from LGW, LTN and BRS without having to stop on the way home. From what I can remember, MAN and BHX have always used the 757 and will probably continue to do so. With regards to EMA (and I think JSI has also been added from NCL?), I’m not sure whether the 738 would be able to make it back non-stop. Either there will be a tech stop or they may use the 757 on a w-pattern from elsewhere.

[rog747]

I think then the 738 must have the edge now on taking higher payloads out of JSI v the Airbus (or the 737 flights you mentioned were not full)
Also the Airbus has different performances whether it is CFM or IAE engines.

Enter Air 738's do stop on the way back to LGW but this maybe due to a split load at volos or lemnos (Sunvil Holidays own charters)

[craigyton2]

Thanks for that guys. I'm not sure my self if a 738 could do JSI to EMA non stop. I wonder if a W pattern on a 757 my be possible? Maybe a BHX based frame?. Probably too early to tell .

[ROC10]

Thanks for that guys. I'm not sure my self if a 738 could do JSI to EMA non stop. I wonder if a W pattern on a 757 my be possible? Maybe a BHX based frame?. Probably too early to tell .

After a quick check of the online TUI timetable, none of next year’s JSI flights are w-patterns. Timings also suggest return flights are non-stop.

LGW, STN, BRS and BOH should all be fine on the 738. I’m assuming MAN and BHX will continue on the 757. I’m no expert but EMA may well be fine too? NCL is where I’m more unsure. I’m sure someone with more knowledge will enlighten us as to what’s (im)possible.

[irishlad06]

After a quick check of the online TUI timetable, none of next year’s JSI flights are w-patterns. Timings also suggest return flights are non-stop.

LGW, STN, BRS and BOH should all be fine on the 738. I’m assuming MAN and BHX will continue on the 757. I’m no expert but EMA may well be fine too? NCL is where I’m more unsure. I’m sure someone with more knowledge will enlighten us as to what’s (im)possible.

if they are planned on the max aircraft which come with SFP as standard now then they could make it no problem but that would depend on the max - only other way would be if they have some 800’s with the short field performance installed. I know it was standard after a certain line number but not sure.

[rog747]

As we know the MAX was destined to replace the 757 on TUI's routes such as this and JTR for instance, and the likes of Banjul, Cape Verde and Egypt (+ SSH makes a come back)

After reading the Lion Air MAX crash report yesterday I am not at all sure we will see the MAX back in time for Summer 2020.

Just my tuppence...

[ROC10]

It looks like the winter TFS-based aircraft is returning this year, and with the new season approaching I thought I'd try to see where it will be flying to/from.

From looking at the online timetables, this is what it appears to be operating:
​​​​​​​
Mon: CWL
Tue: DSA
Wed: ABZ
Thur: NWI
Fri: MAN
Sat:
Sun: ABZ

[rog747]

After a quick check of the online TUI timetable, none of next year’s JSI flights are w-patterns. Timings also suggest return flights are non-stop.

LGW, STN, BRS and BOH should all be fine on the 738. I’m assuming MAN and BHX will continue on the 757. I’m no expert but EMA may well be fine too? NCL is where I’m more unsure. I’m sure someone with more knowledge will enlighten us as to what’s (im)possible.


The 11 x 757's were due to go during or after this winter, seems from jethros TUI have now extended their leases again to cover the 9 MAX groundings and TCK closure
1 x 757 went for freighter conversion this week.

the 2 x 767's remain in the fleet

[Albert Hall]

Airfield opening hours mean it’s nearly impossible to run a U.K.-JSI w pattern.

[Vokes55]

The 11 x 757's were due to go during or after this winter, seems from jethros TUI have now extended their leases again to cover the 9 MAX groundings and TCK closure
1 x 757 went for freighter conversion this week.

the 2 x 767's remain in the fleet

The info on Jethros isn’t and wasn’t quite correct, not all of the 757s were due to leave this Winter in any plan, and BYAW is owned so hasn’t got a lease to extend.

The 757 exit plan hasn’t been made public since the MAX grounding, however I think it would be fairly suicidal to be disposing of a fully crewed fleet of serviceable aircraft whilst the MAX still doesn’t have a return to service date (or the confidence of crew and passengers), and an expansion of 10-11 lines of flying is planned for next Summer.

[ROC10]

The info on Jethros isn’t and wasn’t quite correct, not all of the 757s were due to leave this Winter in any plan, and BYAW is owned so hasn’t got a lease to extend.

The 757 exit plan hasn’t been made public since the MAX grounding, however I think it would be fairly suicidal to be disposing of a fully crewed fleet of serviceable aircraft whilst the MAX still doesn’t have a return to service date (or the confidence of crew and passengers), and an expansion of 10-11 lines of flying is planned for next Summer.



I agree, the info on Jethros seems to be very generic and not overly accurate. I’m sure it was mentioned on here fairly recently that BYAW will be the next to go (OOBG went to DGX on Tuesday). It has been based at LTN for a while so we will see if it gets WFU next week when the 757 ops there change over to 738 (this is what they did with OOBG at GLA). I guess BYAW will only be withdrawn though if they have found a buyer. At 24 years old, they may be thinking it’s best to sell it ASAP before it loses more value.

[Yeehaw22]

CPEV is next to go to China as a freighter following OOBG. No final plan for AW to go as yet.

[ROC10]

CPEV is next to go to China as a freighter following OOBG. No final plan for AW to go as yet.

Makes sense as these were the two that were already WFU and then reinstated prior to summer. Any ideas on time frames or if we will see any more leave this winter?

[rog747]

Thanks for the 757 updates chaps - - Incredible back in the day Britannia AW owned almost the whole alphabet on 757-204's G-BYAC - BYAY

plus 3 ex Air Hollands' too G-OAHF/I/K and an Icelandic G-BTEJ all of which were operated from the start of BY 757 ops from around 1990

Just wondered how they (TUI) are left with only one -204, G-BYAW?

[ROC10]

Thanks for the 757 updates chaps - - Incredible back in the day Britannia AW owned almost the whole alphabet on 757-204's G-BYAC - BYAY

plus 3 ex Air Hollands' too G-OAHF/I/K and an Icelandic G-BTEJ all of which were operated from the start of BY 757 ops from around 1990

Just wondered how they (TUI) are left with only one -204, G-BYAW?

G-BYAY (4 years younger than BYAW) is also still with TUI and G-BYAT left around five years ago (looking very sorry for itself). It found a new lease of life and is now operating for La Compagnie flying transatlantic pretty much every day I believe.

When Thomsonfly and First Choice merged to form Thomson Airways, they gradually disposed of all of the older TOM 757 and 733/738s, as well as all of the FCA Airbus fleet and older 757s. The G-OOB* series 757s are younger (especially BC/BD/BE/BF) and so these were retained.

[Fly757X]

Thanks for the 757 updates chaps - - Incredible back in the day Britannia AW owned almost the whole alphabet on 757-204's G-BYAC - BYAY

plus 3 ex Air Hollands' too G-OAHF/I/K and an Icelandic G-BTEJ all of which were operated from the start of BY 757 ops from around 1990

Just wondered how they (TUI) are left with only one -204, G-BYAW?

They have two. G-BYAY is still operating as well.

[Mooncrest]

As I recall, Britannia took on an ex-Monarch 757-2T7 during the 1990s. I remember one of their engineers saying it had steel brakes, which the -204s didn't.

[VickersVicount]

aaah BTEJ... I went on that particular 757, always recall the safety card was unique because of the different overwing exits.
and had BTEJ marked all over it.

[rog747]

aaah BTEJ... I went on that particular 757, always recall the safety card was unique because of the different overwing exits.
and had BTEJ marked all over it.

Yes, 757 BTEJ had 4 overwing exits rather than doors at 3L/R, and was iirc based at GLA?

Monncrest
G-DRJC leased from MON/OM was G-BYAM with BY

G-BYAG was W/off at Gerona

[ROC10]

Does anyone know why Nordic 763 SE-RNC is operating tonight’s TFS-ABZ? The SWG aircraft that flew the outbound is currently flying to an unknown destination.

[LiamNCL]

Does anyone know why Nordic 763 SE-RNC is operating tonight’s TFS-ABZ? The SWG aircraft that flew the outbound is currently flying to an unknown destination.

Both flew to ABZ

[ROC10]

Both flew to ABZ

Bizarre...

[Mooncrest]

Thankyou, rog747. I couldn't remember if said 757 had been re-registered in the BYA sequence.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Yes, 757 BTEJ had 4 overwing exits rather than doors at 3L/R, and was iirc based at GLA?

Monncrest
G-DRJC leased from MON/OM was G-BYAM with BY

G-BYAG was W/off at Gerona
Yes, G-BTEJ was TF-FIJ of Icelandair on lease, based at GLA in my schooldays in the summer of 1991. God I feel old....

[rog747]

Thankyou, rog747. I couldn't remember if said 757 had been re-registered in the BYA sequence.

Never understood as to why she was given a G-BYAx Reg when she was on lease from MON...

[rog747]

Yes, G-BTEJ was TF-FIJ of Icelandair on lease, based at GLA in my schooldays in the summer of 1991. God I feel old....

I can remember they all smelled brand new like a new car - TEJ was left at GLA because FI/ICE had a Station Engineer there IIRC...

Britannia also had around 3 x Air Holland 757's on lease until their own -204's started to be delivered in 1991

All of these 757's that were on lease were fully painted up in Britannia colours.

My pal just went out and back last week LGW to Antalya on a TUI 757 - I was very jealous - He did a very nice video of it taxiing in at AYT with 2 or 3 other TUI 757's all lined up on the ramp there in the warm evening -
Love that noise of the RR E4's when they spool up....sigh

We shall miss them when they are gone as their Mission capability is way and beyond anything else...

[pamann]

Never understood as to why she was given a G-BYAx Reg when she was on lease from MON...

G-BYAM - “Alpha Monarch”.

There was also G-BXOL which was an odd ball reg in the fleet in the 90’s.

[rog747]

G-BYAM - “Alpha Monarch”.

There was also G-BXOL which was an odd ball reg in the fleet in the 90’s.

Another one from Air Holland I think...or was it Air Belgium>?

[Smudge's Lot]

We all called it
After Monarch!

[sparkie320]

The following 757s been operated by Britannia
757-204 G-BYAC
757-204 G-BYAD
757-204 G-BYAE
757-204 G-BYAF
757-204 G-BYAG
757-204 G-BYAH
757-204 G-BYAI
757-28A G-BYAJ
757-28A G-BYAK
757-204 G-BYAL
757-2T7 G-BYAM ex Monarch
757-204 G-BYAN
757-204 G-BYAO
757-204 G-BYAP
757-204 G-BYAR
757-204 G-BYAS
757-204 G-BYAT
757-204 G-BYAU
757-204 G-BYAW
757-204 G-BYAX
757-204 G-BYAY
757-236 G-CDUO tfd from Britannia AB
757-236 G-CDUP tfd from Britannia AB
757-27B G-OAHF ex Air Holland
757-27B G-OAHI ex Air Holland
757-23A G-OAHK ex Air Holland
757-208 G-BTEJ ex Icelandair lsd
757-23A G-BXOL

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48513344077_c84cdcb876_b.jpg
Boeing 757-208 G-BTEJ by Mark, on Flickr
G-BTEJ seen at Luton during there open day

hope that is of use to some
mark

[rog747]

Very nice rare shots of TEJ - Thanks - XOL was also on from air Holland IIRC?

[VickersVicount]

Very nice rare shots of TEJ - Thanks - XOL was also on from air Holland IIRC?

https://www.planelogger.com/Aircraft/Registration/G-BXOL/530404

[ROC10]

Looks like G-CPEV is currently flying MAN-DGX to join G-OOBG.

[ROC10]

Looks like G-CPEV is currently flying MAN-DGX to join G-OOBG.



The aircraft left MAN this morning and circled repeatedly over CWL at 8,000 feet for over 2.5 hours. It then looked to descend and begin an approach to DGX but FR24 data ends before landing (the same happened with OOBG and therefore FR24 doesn’t show it as having landed or being on the ground at DGX).

[ROC10]

Further to the above, G-OOBG has now left DGX. Showing on FR24 as operating CWL-N/A under TOM928P.

[DanAir89]

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/348341/tui-puts-sharm-back-on-sale-next-week

[ROC10]

Jethros has G-BYAW due to be wfu on 4 Nov.

If true, that will be three gone in relatively quick succession.

They also have info on the new 789s, to quote:

G-TUIN - Due BHX 14 Nov 19
G-TUIO - Due BHX 20 Nov 19

[Mr @ Spotty M]

The B757s are planned to be gone by the 2021 summer season.

[Falcon666]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zuvWLlAupwY

Luton said farewell to its last based 757 this week

[ROC10]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zuvWLlAupwY

Luton said farewell to its last based 757 this week

Well LTN must know that they aren’t getting a 757 next year. It’s been rumoured it will be the last year LTN will have a based aircraft from TUI (not sure how accurate this) and looks like it’ll be a 738.

Assuming BYAW goes and all others stay until next summer, there will be 9 left. If the MAX is back then more may leave before/during S20.

[CabinCrewe]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zuvWLlAupwY

Luton said farewell to its last based 757 this week
Nice. Though if they've gone to the effort they should have shown some of the old Monarch and Britannia LTN 757 footage and hangers. As I think they were even delivered from Boeing direct to LTN.

[AviatorDave]

Yes not everyone is a teacher, obviously we aren't all up to you're a* grammar, who cares?🤣

Yeah, right, who cares. What an attitude :rolleyes:

[VickersVicount]

Wonder if the rumours of TUI dumping Sanford for Melbourne Florida are true...
Not exactly an improvement on the already low step of the 'luxury' ladder which is SFB...
Suppose you just want to get in and out.

[PDXCWL45]

Wonder if the rumours of TUI dumping Sanford for Melbourne Florida are true...
Not exactly an improvement on the already low step of the 'luxury' ladder which is SFB...
Suppose you just want to get in and out.
They'll shift there in 2022 I believe.

[garry8g]

Wonder if the rumours of TUI dumping Sanford for Melbourne Florida are true...
Not exactly an improvement on the already low step of the 'luxury' ladder which is SFB...
Suppose you just want to get in and out.

It would certainly be closer for the cruise programme sailing out of Port Canaveral in Summer 2021 on the Discovery.

[toledoashley]

Wonder if the rumours of TUI dumping Sanford for Melbourne Florida are true...
Not exactly an improvement on the already low step of the 'luxury' ladder which is SFB...
Suppose you just want to get in and out.

Yes, it has been confirmed by TUI - starting 2022.

[sinbad73]

Yes, it has been confirmed by TUI - starting 2022.


News Releases (http://mlbair.com/Default.aspx?tabid=142&Article=179)

[AlanSinfield]

News Releases (http://mlbair.com/Default.aspx?tabid=142&Article=179)

Bad move for passengers who want to go to the Orlando Theme Park area. Sanford was bad enough. It is clearly being done for the cruise passengers

A shot in the arm for Virgin who fly to Orlando International. Thomas Cook moved to Orlando International a number of years ago from Sanford.....

[chaps1954]

Melbourne is probably easier than Sanford and it certainly better for cruise market

[ImPlaneCrazy]

A quick check on Google Maps shows only a 19 minute increase:

Sanford to Kissimmee = 55 mins
Melbourne to Kissimmee = 1hr 14 mins

Blimey, if you've done a 9hr flight an extra 20 minutes won't make any difference. And by the sounds of it the arrival experience will be quite pleasant, according to the press statement all TUI customers will be welcomed "with a glass of fresh Florida orange juice"! :}

[rog747]

MCO v SFB v MLB

Most UK and German charter airlines started to switched to SFB from MCO around 20 years ago - Thomson and Monarch being the first to switch.
UK airlines were offered greatly reduced landing fees at Sanford, and therefore many carriers relocated their operations.

Virgin and BA stayed put at MCO
Thomas Cook went back to use MCO in 2014.

TUI's latest move to MLB airport is to tie-in with their large cruise ship operation, with the MLB airport nearer Port Canaveral.

Downtown Orlando is around 45 mins drive from SFB, whereas it is around 75 mins from MLB

Jet2 are mooted to be going to Florida - as charter flights not LCC, so assume SFB or MCO.

[AirportPlanner1]

No tourist will be going to downtown Orlando so that journey stat is basically irrelevant. 20 extra minutes in this context does make a longish transfer after a long-haul flight even worse. If they were moving from International you could make the argument the speed to get through Melbourne would offset that. But they’re not, they’re moving from Sanford where TUI more or less has the monopoly on international arrivals anyway so immigration time will be no different. That was one benefit of Sanford over International, much further by road but much quicker to pass through.

This will be very much advantage BA/VS along with anyone new entrants that might come onto the route.

[AlanSinfield]

Out of interest, the time to International Drive from each airport is as follows

Sanford 50mins
Orlando Int 20mins
Melbourne 80mins

I know which my preference would be after a 9 hour flight and driving to the hotel. We have had just as long a queue at immigration at Sanford compared to Orlando International

[pamann]

No tourist will be going to downtown Orlando so that journey stat is basically irrelevant. 20 extra minutes in this context does make a longish transfer after a long-haul flight even worse. If they were moving from International you could make the argument the speed to get through Melbourne would offset that. But they’re not, they’re moving from Sanford where TUI more or less has the monopoly on international arrivals anyway so immigration time will be no different. That was one benefit of Sanford over International, much further by road but much quicker to pass through.

This will be very much advantage BA/VS along with anyone new entrants that might come onto the route.



Not entirely correct. Most of TUI’s package holidays to Florida come with free car hire. Coach transfers are an added extra (the reverse to their European packages). The coach transfers from Sanford are actually quite pricey. The uptake of ‘free’ car hire is much more popular on their Florida holidays as most people like the freedom car hire gives you in Florida.

I would guess the cruise program will include coach transfers to the port. What I’m not sure of is whether they’ll check the luggage straight through to the ship, which is common place with some of their cruise packages.

[AirportPlanner1]

Not entirely correct. Most of TUI’s package holidays to Florida come with free car hire. Coach transfers are an added extra (the reverse to their European packages). The coach transfers from Sanford are actually quite pricey. The uptake of ‘free’ car hire is much more popular on their Florida holidays as most people like the freedom car hire gives you in Florida.

Well yeah, I didn’t mean literally a coach transfer. And actually if you’re driving the longer journey is even worse. Sanford has quite an extensive domestic network and some other bits (admittedly it had nothing when the British charters first turned up), the fact Melbourne has so few flights and recent more modest new efforts seem to have failed is quite telling.

[rog747]

Well yeah, I didn’t mean literally a coach transfer. And actually if you’re driving the longer journey is even worse. Sanford has quite an extensive domestic network and some other bits (admittedly it had nothing when the British charters first turned up), the fact Melbourne has so few flights and recent more modest new efforts seem to have failed is quite telling.


TUI have done this to promote their Cruise packages -
Does this mean that Orlando/Disney/Attraction theme holiday sales are on the wane/downturn?
The $$$dollar XE rate is pants and the USA for a holiday now is very expensive, as are all the Attraction passes.
I was in NYC in July and 2 x diner breakfasts (the usual - coffee eggs bacon hash browns English muffin) cost us $32 + tip
2 x diner breakfasts not that long ago would have been $12 for both.

I'm not sure if luggage goes straight from the plane to the ship (via Bonded trucks) for cruise Pax - and yes Pax for TUI cruises will have coach transfers to/from the Port Terminal included.

As for TUI Fly-drive Pax and those with hotel/villa/Disney packages, most of these folk will also have car hire included, or have a TUI transfer.
Time will tell if they are phased by a 75 minute drive to the Orlando area if that is their final destination.

Will any other UK airlines follow TUI into MLB ? Cannot see it happening myself...

[ROC10]

Jethros has G-BYAW going to the RAF. Interesting.

[Centre cities]

Jethros has G-BYAW going to the RAF. Interesting.

The Team Tempest project I should imagine.

Centre cities

[ROC10]

The Team Tempest project I should imagine.

Centre cities

In what way? Will it be scrapped and parts used in this project?

[Twiglet1]

Interesting discussion. To be honest the drive is dependent on the driver, if used to driving on the wrong side of the road, tolls etc then i'm not that fussed about the length of the drive.
What gets my goat most is the wait for the hire car. I always seem to have to wait an age wherever i end up....

[Centre cities]

In what way? Will it be scrapped and parts used in this project?

I have read that one is required as a test bed for the next generation of fighter programme (Tempest).

Could be wrong.

Centre cities

[Yeehaw22]

https://www.aerosociety.com/news/leonardo-to-supply-757-avionics-testbed-for-tempest/

[jethro15]

Jethros has G-BYAW going to the RAF.

I actually state:
To be WFU 03 Nov 19. Onward to RAF (TBC) - To be confirmed.

[ROC10]

I actually state:
To be WFU 03 Nov 19. Onward to RAF (TBC) - To be confirmed.

Apologies, perhaps I should have specified on here that it was TBC but I am fully aware that most things are TBC and do bear this in mind when posting.

[stonejo]

Not entirely correct. Most of TUI’s package holidays to Florida come with free car hire. Coach transfers are an added extra (the reverse to their European packages). The coach transfers from Sanford are actually quite pricey. The uptake of ‘free’ car hire is much more popular on their Florida holidays as most people like the freedom car hire gives you in Florida.

I would guess the cruise program will include coach transfers to the port. What I’m not sure of is whether they’ll check the luggage straight through to the ship, which is common place with some of their cruise packages.

All passengers will need to clear immigration and customs at first port of call in the US regardless of whether they are transitting or not so they will have to collect their bags first anyway.

[beglaflight]

More expansion for TUI for W20 (source: Travelmole)

TUI adds an additional 580,000 seats for winter 2020

travelmole.com/news_feature.php?c=setreg&region=2&m_id=s~_rnnvs~&w_id=36890&news_id=2040058

[RoyHudd]

SFB is dangerous enough. Training a/c everywhere. lousy Air Traffic Control, and MCO airspace nearby. Melbourne in a 787? Good luck...

[flyerguy]

Flights to Sharm el Sheikh now available to book from late February 2020 on TUI. Can find London Gatwick, Birmingham and Manchester at the moment!

[ROC10]

Flights to Sharm el Sheikh now available to book from late February 2020 on TUI. Can find London Gatwick, Birmingham and Manchester at the moment!

Yes, BRS and DSA start in May. I would think they should be available to book but not sure?

[Travel Agent]

TUI announced to the trade that they are to return to Cuba in Summer 2020 and Gambia in November 2020.... seats & holidays will be on sale in the coming weeks.

[peterhr]

Anyone know why G-TUIL TOM545 didn't return from MBJ yesterday?

[PorkyPig76]

Tui are to add Dubai DWC to their scheduled operations starting next winter from Gatwick Manchester Birmingham Newcastle and Glasgow. More to follow

[clipstone1]

They did this before a few years back, when they based a cruise ship there....

[Vokes55]

Looks like cruise charters for the Winter season. 4x weekly flights, one each from LGW, MAN and BHX and another from a different U.K. airport each week (including LGW or MAN some weeks)

[ROC10]

Looks like cruise charters for the Winter season. 4x weekly flights, one each from LGW, MAN and BHX and another from a different U.K. airport each week (including LGW or MAN some weeks)

Yes, the flights will be to feed a ship but they’ve never previously been on a regular basis (normally just a couple of times a year). I’m assuming they’re either basing a Marella ship there for winter or feeding another cruise line like they do at Barbados.

[TimmyW]

DSA back down to 3 based aircraft for 2021.

[AlanSinfield]

Yes, the flights will be to feed a ship but they’ve never previously been on a regular basis (normally just a couple of times a year). I’m assuming they’re either basing a Marella ship there for winter or feeding another cruise line like they do at Barbados.

Marella Celebration is home porting in Dubai for the winter

[Vokes55]

Yes, the flights will be to feed a ship but they’ve never previously been on a regular basis (normally just a couple of times a year). I’m assuming they’re either basing a Marella ship there for winter or feeding another cruise line like they do at Barbados.

Not quite never. They did a similar programme in Winter 16/17 when a ship was based in Dubai. The majority of those flights were on the 767.

They then moved that ship to the Far East in the years since, but it looks like next winter there will a ship in both Dubai and the Far East.

[airworld]

2 more 789 Dreamliners coming in Nov

[pamann]

2 more 789 Dreamliners coming in Nov

It is November. We’re half way through it.

[pabely]

2 more 789 Dreamliners coming in Nov
Jethros had them sheduled for delivery on 19th & 20th November to BHX but first shows as delayed.

[ROC10]

Jethros had them sheduled for delivery on 19th & 20th November to BHX but first shows as delayed.

No, Jethros has the first due for delivery today (14th) but obviously delayed.

[pabely]

No, Jethros has the first due for delivery today (14th) but obviously delayed.
G-TUIN arrived BHX this morning. G-TUIO air tested yesterday so looking good for next week delivery

[azz767]

Anyone know why they're being delivered to BHX?

[Tintop]

Does anyone know if TUI will still fly to Mauritius for 2020 winter ??

[pabely]

Anyone know why they're being delivered to BHX?
The only reason I can think us that the finishing work is being done by the new operator of the ex MAEL Hangers

[chaps1954]

They are usually in service within the week and I`m guessing MAN doesn`t want them sat outside for a week or so

[OltonPete]

They are usually in service within the week and I`m guessing MAN doesn`t want them sat outside for a week or so

Plenty of room at BHX - sitting on stand 85 but like pabely I though maybe it would go into the MAEL hangar as NEOS have used it recently despite the impending sale.

I believe contracts have been exchanged and a recruitment drive on for engineers. I was hoping TUI would have taken it but never mind.

Pete

[Yeehaw22]

They are usually in service within the week and I`m guessing MAN doesn`t want them sat outside for a week or so

More like a couple of days work at best.

[pabely]

More like a couple of days work at best.
Left today for MAN and now on first revenue flight to Orlando.

[ROC10]

G-TUIO arrived in BHX this morning.

[garry8g]

G-TUIO arrived in BHX this morning.

Now on first revenue flight to Bridgetown from Birmingham this morning.

[P330]

Does anyone know which aircraft are used on the Cape Verde flights?

[ROC10]

Does anyone know which aircraft are used on the Cape Verde flights?

767 from MAN, 757 from LGW/BHX, 737 from BRS.

[P330]

Thank you.

I wonder what will run this route once the 757/767s have gone? A long ride on a 737.....

[pabely]

Thank you.

I wonder what will run this route once the 757/767s have gone? A long ride on a 737.....
The Max of course! 😮

[P330]

The Max of course! 😮

Gulp! You may have figured out we’re looking at going there, but right now would be nervous of the Max!

[ROC10]

Thank you.

I wonder what will run this route once the 757/767s have gone? A long ride on a 737.....

The types I mentioned are what they are currently using in this winter season and it’s actually quite unusual for them to be using the 767 on these routes but MAN only has 1 757 now. In the summer months they have been known to use the 787 from LGW and MAN.

For a passenger, the 737 is really no different from the 757, perhaps actually better due to more modern interiors. The 767s are also dated and in a high-density economy configuration so I’d doubt this would be very comfortable either. The 787 definitely looks like the best option for Cape Verde but there are the issues of operating it into BVC and trying to fill it from all of the appropriate bases, especially in winter.

[yeo valley]

Summer 2018 the 788 was used from BRS for the season.

[ROC10]

Anyone know why G-OOBA ferried from LGW to NCL and is now operating to Eindhoven? Based on the flight number I’m guessing some sort of charter but the departure was after midday which seems a tad late for the typical day trip charters.

[LiamNCL]

Anyone know why G-OOBA ferried from LGW to NCL and is now operating to Eindhoven? Based on the flight number I’m guessing some sort of charter but the departure was after midday which seems a tad late for the typical day trip charters.

TUI have operated NCL EIN in the past on a JAF 767 , they were troop charters back then for some sort of exercise so im guessing the same ?

[ROC10]

TUI have operated NCL EIN in the past on a JAF 767 , they were troop charters back then for some sort of exercise so im guessing the same ?

No idea, never heard of them doing that before but may well be the case. It operated straight back to MAN (presumably empty) afterwards.

[ROC10]

The HRG flights (or really the 757s) have been giving TUI a headache over the last couple of days.

Yesterday the LGW flight left 6 hours late. G-OOBN looks to have gone tech meaning G-OOBF had to be rushed out of DGX and straight onto the HRG.

The MAN flight on G-BYAY left just under an hour late but looks to have gone tech upon landing at HRG and is still on the ground there now. G-FDZG ferried down this morning on top of today’s HRG flights and operated yesterday’s inbound 25 hours late.

Then today’s HRG-MAN left over 3 hours late on G-OOBC despite arriving on time – possibly a switch to yesterday’s crew to allow them to get home, leaving today’s crew down there?

[valefan16]

Thank you.

I wonder what will run this route once the 757/767s have gone? A long ride on a 737.....

Imagine the MAX would be suited for this kind of route, when I was in Sal in 2015 our hotel was in line with the approach and saw a few 737's come in from Tuifly Germany, recall as was chuffed to see the Tootifruiti one! they've used the 787-8 on a week of the weekly flights down there too from LGW, I ended up on BYAY but was gutted I didnt realise prior to booking and take the 787-8 from LGW instead of the 757 from BHX.

[ROC10]

Imagine the MAX would be suited for this kind of route, when I was in Sal in 2015 our hotel was in line with the approach and saw a few 737's come in from Tuifly Germany, recall as was chuffed to see the Tootifruiti one! they've used the 787-8 on a week of the weekly flights down there too from LGW, I ended up on BYAY but was gutted I didnt realise prior to booking and take the 787-8 from LGW instead of the 757 from BHX.

As has been mentioned, the 738 can and does operate from the UK to Sal. Yes, the MAX is likely to largely replace the 757 on the route, along with 787 from the larger bases as it currently does in summer.

[OltonPete]

The HRG flights (or really the 757s) have been giving TUI a headache over the last couple of days.

Yesterday the LGW flight left 6 hours late. G-OOBN looks to have gone tech meaning G-OOBF had to be rushed out of DGX and straight onto the HRG.

The MAN flight on G-BYAY left just under an hour late but looks to have gone tech upon landing at HRG and is still on the ground there now. G-FDZG ferried down this morning on top of today’s HRG flights and operated yesterday’s inbound 25 hours late.

Then today’s HRG-MAN left over 3 hours late on G-OOBC despite arriving on time – possibly a switch to yesterday’s crew to allow them to get home, leaving today’s crew down there?

757 AY is currently heading home from its few days in the sun

Now to one that has apparently ended its TUI days - 738 G-FDZE operated Arrecife - BHX last night and has gone to Lasham for end of lease checks - Credit: Jethro's

I wonder if TUI tried to extend the lease.

Pete

[rog747]

It's also been a Sunwing a/c for much of its life....maybe back to Canada for the winter?

[Matt995]

Been trying to work out the aircraft, and bases for Summer 2020, and thanks to google flights, this is the current list for Saturdays in August :-

Aberdeen 1 x 737
Belfast 1 x 737
Birmingham 1 x 788
Birmingham 2 x 757
Birmingham 7 x 737
Bournemouth 2 x 737
Bristol 1 x 788
Bristol 1 x 757
Bristol 5 x 737
Cardiff 3 x 737
Doncaster 1 x 788
Doncaster 4 x 737
Dublin 2 x 737
East Midlands 3 x 737
Edinburgh 1 x 737
Exeter 1 x 737
Gatwick 3 x 789
Gatwick 4 x 788
Gatwick 2 x 757
Gatwick 4 x 737
Glasgow 3 x 737
Luton 1 x 737
Manchester 3 x 789
Manchester 2 x 767
Manchester 1 x 757
Manchester 12 x 737
Newcastle 1 x 788
Newcastle 4 x 737
Norwich 1 x 737
Stansted 2 x 737


the 788 at Newcastle is shared with Glasgow
the 788 at Doncaster, is shared with Manchester

and 1 of the Gatwick 788s, also operates from Manchester and Birmingham (1 day only)

This indicates 79 aircraft required, 6 x 789's, 8 x 788's. 2 x 767's, 6 x 757's, and 57 737's (a mixture of B738's, and Max's)

Currently TUI have 30 B738's, I guess they will lease in 5 Sunwing B738's, so that leaves at least 22 Max's required for Summer?

[ROC10]

Been trying to work out the aircraft, and bases for Summer 2020, and thanks to google flights, this is the current list for Saturdays in August :-

Aberdeen 1 x 737
Belfast 1 x 737
Birmingham 1 x 788
Birmingham 2 x 757
Birmingham 7 x 737
Bournemouth 2 x 737
Bristol 1 x 788
Bristol 1 x 757
Bristol 5 x 737
Cardiff 3 x 737
Doncaster 1 x 788
Doncaster 4 x 737
Dublin 2 x 737
East Midlands 3 x 737
Edinburgh 1 x 737
Exeter 1 x 737
Gatwick 3 x 789
Gatwick 4 x 788
Gatwick 2 x 757
Gatwick 4 x 737
Glasgow 3 x 737
Luton 1 x 737
Manchester 3 x 789
Manchester 2 x 767
Manchester 1 x 757
Manchester 12 x 737
Newcastle 1 x 788
Newcastle 4 x 737
Norwich 1 x 737
Stansted 2 x 737


the 788 at Newcastle is shared with Glasgow
the 788 at Doncaster, is shared with Manchester

and 1 of the Gatwick 788s, also operates from Manchester and Birmingham (1 day only)

This indicates 79 aircraft required, 6 x 789's, 8 x 788's. 2 x 767's, 6 x 757's, and 57 737's (a mixture of B738's, and Max's)

Currently TUI have 30 B738's, I guess they will lease in 5 Sunwing B738's, so that leaves at least 22 Max's required for Summer?

Looks pretty accurate for the most part. BOH and EXT each have one based 737 and share a second, I believe it’s at EXT four days and BOH three? Also, I don’t think it’s quite right to simply say that the likes of GLA and NCL share one 787. I believe there are some weeks where GLA has as many as 6 or 7 l/h flights but don’t think this is necessarily matched by NCL reducing to 1 or 2. But of course, the overall number is correct, they certainly have 8 x 788 and 6 x 789.

What strikes me most is the difference in the number of narrow-bodies between LGW (6) and MAN (13). Does the LGW 737 figure include the usual Norwegian-operated flights? If so that seems very low compared to MAN, even BHX has 9, although admittedly only one 787.

It does seem like a lot of extra capacity required. Assuming the MAX is back, they should be mostly there but deliveries will surely be backlogged? I suspect some of the 737 flights will possibly be switched to 757 (particularly at MAN where you have 12 vs 1). They currently have 9 757s. They may of course withdraw three before summer but they will possibly be trying to extend some leases. They also may take more from Sunwing if possible (so far this winter TOM have sent 7 x 737 over to SWG and possibly more still to go).

[Matt995]

No I haven't included the Norwegian aircraft at Gatwick, guessing its 2 B738s operating for TUI under Norwegian flight numbers?

I beleive we might see 7 Sunwing B738s this summer at Aberdeen, Norwich, Dublin, Belfast and Cardiff, whch means 20 Max's still required, dependant on how many B757s are kept, and if they lease in aircraft from other airlines?

Still a big gamble that the Max's will be flying from May 2020?

[ROC10]

No I haven't included the Norwegian aircraft at Gatwick, guessing its 2 B738s operating for TUI under Norwegian flight numbers?

I beleive we might see 7 Sunwing B738s this summer at Aberdeen, Norwich, Dublin, Belfast and Cardiff, whch means 20 Max's still required, dependant on how many B757s are kept, and if they lease in aircraft from other airlines?

Still a big gamble that the Max's will be flying from May 2020?

I believe it’s normally 2 738s although I think they normally operate under TOM flight numbers?

Yes there may be some ACMI leasing again like this summer. ASL were used all summer at CWL as well as Titan at STN and LGW, amongst many others at LGW/MAN/BHX.

[thom1983tc]

Prior to the Thomas Cook collapse TUI were down to 4 757’s for summer 2020, they are supposedly keeping the current 9 now. My guess is another couple at MAN and BHX? Additionally thought BRS was going to be a 737 only base as of this winter. Anyone shed any light? Much appreciated. Tom

[LiamNCL]

NCL is 2x 788 / 4x 788 alternate each week. Summer 2021 NCL requires a 787 4 days every week.

[P330]

I think there has to be leasing in. No way there will be 20 Max next summer. Can’t see the MAX flying until st least April next year and then it will take an age to get them all in service....

[ROC10]

Prior to the Thomas Cook collapse TUI were down to 4 757’s for summer 2020, they are supposedly keeping the current 9 now. My guess is another couple at MAN and BHX? Additionally thought BRS was going to be a 737 only base as of this winter. Anyone shed any light? Much appreciated. Tom

I think they must be planning to keep a 757 at BRS for S20 (there wasn't even originally meant to be one in S19) due to the significant extra capacity they have recently announced and a lack of available 737s. BRS is currently 737-only for W19/20 though.

[pabely]

I think there has to be leasing in. No way there will be 20 Max next summer. Can’t see the MAX flying until st least April next year and then it will take an age to get them all in service....
And is joe public going to be happy to find they are booked on a MAX?

[Jamesair]

That is the big unknown.

[CabinCrewe]

And is joe public going to be happy to find they are booked on a MAX?
Most won't care, most won't realise. Its all about their hard end two weeks in Benidorm.
The DC-10 was similar, and as we saw, people were 'all over' Concorde when it re-flew.
This will be a so non-event for most.

[pamann]

Most won't care, most won't realise. Its all about their hard end two weeks in Benidorm.
The DC-10 was similar, and as we saw, people were 'all over' Concorde when it re-flew.
This will be a so non-event for most.


All of this was pre social media and the internet. I’m not so sure we can compare it to the DC10 because of this, plus less people flew back then unlike the masses that do today. The two unfortunate crashes of the Max have been in the news for months and months now. Not to mention the various documentaries that have been on the tele.

It’s a very different world we live in these days I think.

Boeing need to get this right. I’m just not sure how they’ll do it.

[ROC10]

I think many may not like the idea of flying on the MAX but most simply will not know/care to check the aircraft type before their flight. Many will only realise once onboard (even if then!), especially on the likes of TUI. That being said, TUI is definitely the most prominent operator of the MAX in the UK and perhaps Europe, well at least until Ryanair start flying theirs.

I am booked on a TUI flight next summer that theoretically should be on a MAX but of course I can't be sure. There is a chance it won't even be back by then and if it is, TUI may not be operating all/any of theirs.

[pabely]

The trouble is this is very different world. Even a birdstrike or tireburst by a MAX will be in the media to get headlines!

[LiamNCL]

TUI will probably drop the word MAX by time it enters service like RYR has done. There was talk about them considering it a few weeks back.

[Big Tudor]

That being said, TUI is definitely the most prominent operator of the MAX in the UK and perhaps Europe, well at least until Ryanair start flying theirs.

TUI 3rd equal in Europe with Turkish for Max orders. Norwegian 2nd and Ryanair lead the pack.

[Yeehaw22]

Not that the public will know. But the max will be one of the most tested and scrutinised aircraft in years by the time it returns to service. Probably with a much tighter MEL and more specific procedures to make it a safe prospect. I.e a lot more scrutiny than perhaps even some other new build aircraft. Dont forget the 737 rudder hard-over accidents aswell. Hasn't stopped the billions of passengers since then.

I also doubt that many of TUIs customers will even know it's a Max until they turn up at the gate. And are they going to sacrifice their holiday and walk away at that point?

Then again they may not book with tui at all to avoid the max altogether......

[LTNman]

When the aircraft is allowed to fly paying passengers again no doubt the British press will mention which UK airline flies them so causing pre-booking damage. Removing the word Max from the side of the aircraft like Ryanair intend to do is an acceptance that many passengers would not be happy to fly in one so could be seen as an act of deception.

[rog747]

I think some of you are vastly underestimating the travelling public re TUI MAX.
Did you read the TUI social media accounts pre the grounding?
I suggest you do, so have a look at their Facebook and Twitter back in March, both of which exploded with 1000's of TUI customers who were wanting to cancel and the pressure from them on TUI to do something was immense - The groundings followed within 48 hours when the CAA and EASA decided.
Things are different now to the days of the DC-10 etc...(40 years ago)

TUI UK Holidays have for many months now wiped clean on their media and online web pages for both Holidays and Flights (and Our Fleet info) any reference to the fact TUI operated the MAX, or in fact that have any at all. (8 UK reg'd a/c grounded in UK and 1 in TFS plus a load more brand new ones parked up at Boeing)

Therefore the likelihood of TUI re-branding their aircraft when a RTS is effected is probable. (Ryanair have now used the tag 737-8 200 for their new fleet, having painted out the word MAX on their completed aircraft parked up at Boeing)
The MAX tag has tainted the 737, and will never be used on any other new Boeing model aircraft.

TUI may quietly just release their 737-8 and 737-10 back online as a 737 when the ban is lifted - dropping any reference to MAX.

[CabinCrewe]

Comparing the height of apparent hysteria and now with, presumably, a safe fix is irrelevant. As I said, very few will change their travel plans as a result at this stage. Otherwise airlines and their far more detailed public research departments would not continue to order and plan to operate, social media or not.

[P330]

I agree.

I’m not Jo Public, but with a TUI holiday booked on what could be a MAX aircraft, I’m nervous. Logic tells me not to be nervous and logic also tells me I couldn’t be that nervous otherwise I wouldn’t have booked up. BUT, I am. And as a frequent flyer with nearly 700 flights behind me, this is unusual...

I hope someone in marketing is working hard on how to bring the planes back with minimum fuss and connection to the past otherwise I think the powers of social media could do TUI some damage.

In the meantime, I hope my flight isn’t on a MAX and on my regular bookings with work, I will avoid it unless there is no sensibly priced alternative.

[LGS6753]

When it gets airborne again, the Max will be the safest aircraft in the sky...

[P330]

When it gets airborne again, the Max will be the safest aircraft in the sky...

That is what logic tells you. But we’re human, not computers and therefore I’m nervous and I suspect many others will be too.

[Big Tudor]

When it gets airborne again, the Max will be the safest aircraft in the sky...
With over 100 years of research and development to learn from it should have been the safest aircraft in the sky from day 1.

[clipstone1]

plus of course 98% of passengers wont be able to tell the difference between a -800 and a -8, other than engine size/positioning (which they probably won't identify unless one is parked next to the other) they look the same.

[rog747]

plus of course 98% of passengers wont be able to tell the difference between a -800 and a -8, other than engine size/positioning (which they probably won't identify unless one is parked next to the other) they look the same.


Which is no doubt exactly what TUI would like when the 737-8's return to service -
They will quietly just merge the 737-800 and the 737-8 as a generic type 737 (same 189 seats and same exit locations)
MAX titles will be dropped and as you say they both look the same to most folk.

The only ones that are vastly different are the 737 MAX-10 which TUI are expecting to have a large number delivered next year, with similar capacity to the 757, but offers less range, and less range than the 737 MAX-8, and only 200 miles** more than the 737-800.
The MAX-10 needs one additional AUX fuel tank to meet this **range but maximum payload will be reduced

The -10 can seat up to 230 pax and has 10 exits - with 2 x Type 1 aft of the wing (same as 757)
TUI has not yet advised the seating capacity for the -10.
TUI were expected to be the launch customer in Europe for the -10

TUI CEO mulls name change
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/boeing-737-max-crash-tui-airways-return-service-plane-ryanair-british-airways-a9160916.html

[Wycombe]

....and I believe I'm right that the MAX-10 doesn't have MCAS?

[rog747]

....and I believe I'm right that the MAX-10 doesn't have MCAS?

That's incorrect I gather - There is some chatter on the avgeek web and in the Press that the -10's do not have MCAS, but from what I read further that does not seem to be the case.
edit - I don't think we know.

[rog747]

''Federal Aviation Administration chief Stephen Dickson said today that the 737 MAX which has been grounded worldwide since March, will not be certified to fly this year, dashing Boeing’s hopes of getting the popular family of planes back in the air in 2019.''

Doubt then we will see entry into TUI service for at least the first half of Summer 2020 if at all....

No doubt TUI are picking up the phone to the ACMI's

[LiamNCL]

I did hear that the MAX 10 didnt require MCAS as the CoG is further back but that could be hearsay.

[azz767]

Sorry to post this in here as I know it’s not what it’s for, but I know fr24 is unreliable when it comes to TOM. Does anyone know if by735 from BVC - BHX has taken off and if it’s delayed? The MAN flight due to take off 20 mins after is also not tracking.

The BHX website has no info, and the Airportia website has it down as arriving at 22.30, but this changes regularly.

im picking someone up so anyone who has any access to non public softwares and could help would be much appreciated. I’ve tried every source I know of to try and track it.

[ROC10]

BY735 (https://www.airportia.com/flights/by735/rabil/birmingham/) Birmingham BHX (https://www.airportia.com/united-kingdom/birmingham-international-airport/) TUI Airways (https://www.airportia.com/airlines/tui-airways/)12/12 14:45 15:25 Departed Late
Source: https://www.airportia.com/cape-verde/rabil-airport/departures/

Google flights also concurs.

[azz767]

BY735 (https://www.airportia.com/flights/by735/rabil/birmingham/) Birmingham BHX (https://www.airportia.com/united-kingdom/birmingham-international-airport/) TUI Airways (https://www.airportia.com/airlines/tui-airways/)12/12 14:45 15:25 Departed Late
Source: https://www.airportia.com/cape-verde/rabil-airport/departures/

Google flights also concurs.

it’s now updated as departed at 15.35. I’m assuming it hasn’t actually left yet

[ROC10]

it’s now updated as departed at 15.35. I’m assuming it hasn’t actually left yet

What makes you think it hasn't left yet? Bar FR24 most others seem to suggest it has (including TUI's website). Strangely though, I can't find a website for BVC.

[azz767]

What makes you think it hasn't left yet? Bar FR24 most others seem to suggest it has (including TUI's website). Strangely though, I can't find a website for BVC.

mainly that the BHX website hasn’t got an arrival time for it but has for all other flights

[azz767]

What makes you think it hasn't left yet? Bar FR24 most others seem to suggest it has (including TUI's website). Strangely though, I can't find a website for BVC.

it’s just popped up on FR24 over the canaries. Thanks

[ROC10]

FR24 is showing that a STN flight next week will be operated by an A321. Are they possibly going to be using Titan charters from STN again? Wouldn't be too surprising given 9 x 738 have now gone to Sunwing (surely there will be no more). TUI don't have many flights from STN in winter (only 2 per week right now but it does increase going into ski season and perhaps they don't have the equipment to cover this) and with Titan being based there I suppose it makes sense.

[rog747]

AA in the USA defers any 737 MAX return to service in its schedules until at least mid April, and this is still only an anticipation -

This infers that any UK re-certification would happen after then, as both the CAA and EASA have to approve the type and lift the grounding, plus TUI will have to commence pilot training and make flight training and flight manual revisions.

The implications of this IMHO are that this will be too late for TUI to fit their MAX-8 fleet into the Summer 2020 flying program, nor likely take any deliveries of the larger MAX -10 due in 2020.

So back to expensive short term ACMI leases and to retain the 9 757's?

This is just my Tuppence but I think is a realistic scenario.

[Yeehaw22]

The remaining 9 757s were staying anyway. I'm not sure where the info that they were all going this summer came from. Regardless of the max issue they are still numerous aircraft short for the supposed expansion next summer. I hope they have something up their sleeve or they are going to look very inept.

[rog747]

The 757's were all supposed to be gone by this winter's end, that was the plan for 757 retirement, but as we know of the 12 (3 have just gone) 9 remain and afaik their disposal has been postponed (indef?)

I don't think TUI have been inept in anyway since March when the MAX was grounded (They had 7 in service that week, with 3 more due, plus loads due for next summer, plus the -10 series too)
I think they handled the whole ACMI lease-in for their S2019 program immensely well considering the grounding occurred just weeks before the Summer season, but at a huge cost to them - The forecast was 600m euros.

The Sunwing lease arrangement of their fleet returning to Canada for the winter is a historic one as you know (Like AE did the same with Air Florida, and Air2000 with Canada3000)
But Sunwing have their own MAX grounded too, so do we assume the same number of 737NG's come back to TUI for Summer 2020?
Some that are going back to Canada now have retained G- reg's.

As it seems the RTS of the MAX rolls over to at least Q2 2020 TUI can now decide what fleet arrangements are needed to cover the groundings.

TUI have announced massive expansions and added destinations (2m more seats) so it needs planes...

[Yeehaw22]

The 757s were never all going this winter. Jethros was incorrect and still is as it says theyve all been extended.

I agree considering the short notice nature of the grounding TUI did very well to cover everything with relatively little fuss. I was making the statement that they are going to look inept should they not have a provider of aircraft or capacity up their sleeve imminently. As time is ticking on. No sign of the max issue being resolved, although just because AA have moved their RTS to April is no indication of anything. The FAA have only said this week that the recert is definitly going to slip into January.

It's not as though theres an abundance of used 738s kicking about either, jet2 are hoovering those up. And theres no appetite from Tui to introduce a new type.

[ROC10]

The 757's were all supposed to be gone by this winter's end, that was the plan for 757 retirement, but as we know of the 12 (3 have just gone) 9 remain and afaik their disposal has been postponed (indef?)

I don't think TUI have been inept in anyway since March when the MAX was grounded (They had 7 in service that week, with 3 more due, plus loads due for next summer, plus the -10 series too)
I think they handled the whole ACMI lease-in for their S2019 program immensely well considering the grounding occurred just weeks before the Summer season, but at a huge cost to them - The forecast was 600m euros.

The Sunwing lease arrangement of their fleet returning to Canada for the winter is a historic one as you know (Like AE did the same with Air Florida, and Air2000 with Canada3000)
But Sunwing have their own MAX grounded too, so do we assume the same number of 737NG's come back to TUI for Summer 2020?
Some that are going back to Canada now have retained G- reg's.

As it seems the RTS of the MAX rolls over to at least Q2 2020 TUI can now decide what fleet arrangements are needed to cover the groundings.

TUI have announced massive expansions and added destinations (2m more seats) so it needs planes...

No, I don’t think it was the plan (at least for a while) for all the 757s to go. I think people are mainly getting this from Jethros which can be inaccurate. Of course some have left as some did last year, and I think TUI extended some leases into 2020/21 even before the MAX issues.

The 9 aircraft that have gone to Sunwing have not gone “back” to Canada, they are TUI UK aircraft that are going on lease for winter, reducing TUI’s fleet size and probably forcing them to lease in ACMI for STN and possibly other bases. It all seems silly considering they have the planes but they’ve gone to Canada, but I guess these arrangements have been in place for a while, as does the fact that all frames to go over have been younger ones with Sky Interior – most of the older 738s that TUI are stuck with were probably due to be withdrawn like ZE has been. Perhaps as a result TUI will have negotiated a more generous offering from Sunwing next summer with more of theirs coming over. They do also have the MAX but it may return to service in Canada sooner than in the UK. That being said, I think TUI are pretty reluctant to go too far with Sunwing usage as they are generally notorious for huge delays and poor performance which affects TUI’s reputation.

The expansion is certainly ambitious and probably would have been a slight challenge even with a reasonable fleet of MAXs, likely having to retain some older aircraft. Without the MAX it looks over-optimistic and they may have to make some serious decisions about cutting some of it back. I’m sure they have plans though.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

ROC10, you are correct in the B757s were never going to all be gone this early, l have said before and l say again they are all not due to leave until the winter/spring 2020/2021.

[rog747]

With respect my pal skipper for TOM at BRS on 757/767 fleet - they (757) were all due to have been history long before 2021 - 757 retirements were planned around 4 or 5 years ago.

The MAX debacle changed the plans

[Yeehaw22]

The last of the 757s BC/D/E/F have been planned for years to exit spring 21. This hasn't changed. The short term extensions of EV/BG and possibly some more short term extensions of the rest are the only changes to the 757 exit plans as a consequence of the max issues. People need to get their facts right.

I'm pretty sure they'd be more interested in keeping hold of the older 738s that have started to be Wfu. Although they might not be so keen with the pickle fork issues.

[pamann]

With respect my pal skipper for TOM at BRS on 757/767 fleet - they (757) were all due to have been history long before 2021 - 757 retirements were planned around 4 or 5 years ago.

The MAX debacle changed the plans

But what you’ve put above doesn’t make sense? If the retirements were planned 4 or 5 years ago, how can the Max issues which happened this year be the reason the 75’s are still here?

The Max might have slowed down the plans, but it can’t be the ultimate reason for something that happened years before it. Not unless someone had a fully functioning crystal ball.

[ROC10]

But what you’ve put above doesn’t make sense? If the retirements were planned 4 or 5 years ago, how can the Max issues which happened this year be the reason the 75’s are still here?

The Max might have slowed down the plans, but it can’t be the ultimate reason for something that happened years before it. Not unless someone had a fully functioning crystal ball.




These were exactly my thoughts, that point makes no sense at all. Yes, they are now looking to extend leases for the purpose of expanding their offering and covering the MAX issues but AFAIK, the MAX wasn't delayed and entered service when expected (unlike the 787) so clearly there were always going to be 757s left after the MAX arrived.

Perhaps the 'intel' from the employee at BRS was in fact that the 757 was due to be gone from that particular base long ago and this has been misinterpreted somewhere? Seems the only logical explanation.

[ROC10]

The last of the 757s BC/D/E/F have been planned for years to exit spring 21. This hasn't changed. The short term extensions of EV/BG and possibly some more short term extensions of the rest are the only changes to the 757 exit plans as a consequence of the max issues. People need to get their facts right.

I'm pretty sure they'd be more interested in keeping hold of the older 738s that have started to be Wfu. Although they might not be so keen with the pickle fork issues.

I agree, on that point, do you know if/when any more 738s are due to be WFU following ZE recently.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

rog747
Your contact in Bristol may have only meant Bristol with regards to the B757.
Base Pilots do not always fully know what the complete plans are with regards to fleets.
It is usually the engineering division which has better knowledge in that respect, as they have to plan well ahead to be ready for each aircraft's disposal.
End of lease work needs to be planned well ahead to get maintenance slots for end of lease checks, any engine shop visits and engine changes.
I was offered a job at TUI back in January well before the max issues, this was only a 2 year contract, because the B757s were leaving in the spring of 2021.

[rog747]

''Perhaps the 'intel' from the employee at BRS was in fact that the 757 was due to be gone from that particular base long ago and this has been misinterpreted somewhere? Seems the only logical explanation.''

Yes you are all correct - sorry for confusions - However he did say that the 757 retirement planning (which was commenced as he said some years ago) meant the 757 was to go from BRS long before 2021 and the pilots would all go to the 737 some time ago -
Just spoke to him last night and he still did think that originally there were no plans to keep them at any base until 2021.
We assume all the plans changed Spotty M.

Thanks for your input - One thing is for sure we will all lament when the 757's go for good - I loved working on this aeroplane - Go anywhere and do anything (almost)

Best R

[Mr @ Spotty M]

TUI is going to have a very complicated year ahead of them because of the Max issue.
Apart from not knowing when they can get them back in the sky, there is another major problem that might rear its ugly head.
The WTO is due to give its ruling on the Boeing subsidy issues and the Max might get caught up in it, just like the Airbus A320FAM has with US imports.
If that happens this will make a massive dent in the balance sheet.

[inOban]

I thought that the WTO was paralysed by the refusal of the US to allow replacement judges to be appointed?

[SWBKCB]

Blimey - if discussions about when the 757's were or weren't going to get retired wasn't tedious enough, lets not get on to the WTO....

[rog747]

Blimey - if discussions about when the 757's were or weren't going to get retired wasn't tedious enough, lets not get on to the WTO....

LOL I thought we all loved the 757 - We'll have nowt to talk about soon :(

[ROC10]

Blimey - if discussions about when the 757's were or weren't going to get retired wasn't tedious enough, lets not get on to the WTO....

What exactly would you prefer the thread discussed? Please feel free to contribute some more exciting information. Otherwise, no one is forcing you to read the thread.

[SWBKCB]

Tbe last couple of days seems to have descended into a squabble about who knew what when about when the 757's were leaving - guess what plans change. Being old enough to remember when the new 757 was being talked about as a derivative of the 727, they're just another of the ubiquitous twin jets...

I was told years ago by somebody in fleet planning for Britannia that selling the seats was the hard part. If they do, they'll always find somebody to operate the flights - doubt things have changed much.

[ROC10]

G-TAWI today ferried EMA-PIK and then operated PIK-RVN on behalf of Tuninter (Tunisia). It seems to be doing the inbound back to PIK just now. Seems a bit odd.

[OzzyOzBorn]

Tuninter used to have an ICAO three-letter flight code of: TUI

Probably explains things!

[garry8g]

Further delays to the B737 MAX return to service:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50817124

More problems for TUI?

[rog747]

Further delays to the B737 MAX return to service:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50817124

More problems for TUI?

This was a News item also on ITV GMB today -

Well certainly one (problem) that was no doubt not unexpected by TUI, who will be working hard to cover their S20 flying...
For the ACMI airlines this means lucrative business. (sad reasons though)

What this may mean for their (TUI) massive expansion plans and also for W20/21 I don't know.

If the MAX production line closes as mentioned, then TUI's MAX -10 fleet will not be built, nor delivered next year which again may see even further extension plans to 757 operations if that is at all possible.
Not sure if any ex TOM 767's are available from TUI or Neos in Europe/Nordic but they could well be holding onto them.

[dmouse88]

Do we know what happened to G-TUIE on flt BY660/661 over period 16th to 19th Dec, was it tech.

[Vokes55]

Do we know what happened to G-TUIE on flt BY660/661 over period 16th to 19th Dec, was it tech.

A cracked windshield in Goa, followed by a few logistical issues getting engineers and parts into India, by all accounts.

[SWBKCB]

followed by a few logistical issues getting engineers and parts into India, by all accounts.

Hard to believe.... :rolleyes:

[ROC10]

Do we know what happened to G-TUIE on flt BY660/661 over period 16th to 19th Dec, was it tech.

It’s led to a horrible delay on this afternoon’s LGW-LPA (scheduled 16:10 on 757). After arriving from GOI, G-TUIE ferried MAN-LGW and has departed on this flight at 22:58. The 787 issue would appear to have somehow led to a 757 shortage at LGW. There have been 738s idle at LGW for hours but I guess the flight must have been towards the upper end of 757 capacity.

[Flightrider]

Is there any chance that we could delegate the blow-by-blow accounts of the hourly movements of the TUI fleet to the Spectators' Balcony forum? Any meaningful news about TUI fleet changes or developments is being crowded out in the noise about where G-TUIE has ended up today. "Topics about airports, routes and airline business" is the header, and it's getting rather difficult to identify that in amongst the analysis of Flightradar24 data as to which aircraft has landed where.

[Gurnard]

The posts do concern "airline business" so have some relevance in this Forum. Best approach for any frustrated readers would be to skim-read and simply ignore what fails to inspire them.

[22/04]

Do airlines have special arrangements to get engineers to countries like India which would require Visas - and parts which would bear tariffs. Would engineering support from say Air India available locally be used?

[ROC10]

The posts do concern "airline business" so have some relevance in this Forum. Best approach for any frustrated readers would be to skim-read and simply ignore what fails to inspire them.

Well said.

[Vokes55]

Do airlines have special arrangements to get engineers to countries like India which would require Visas - and parts which would bear tariffs. Would engineering support from say Air India available locally be used?

There would be engineering support from a local firm to cover the basics. For bigger jobs which require larger parts, I’d imagine a select number of engineers would get Indian visas issued before the start of each Winter season, much like the pilots and the cabin crew.

From what I gather, on this occasion it was an administrative issue with the aircraft chartered to carry the part out there.

[Dannyboy39]

Do airlines have special arrangements to get engineers to countries like India which would require Visas - and parts which would bear tariffs. Would engineering support from say Air India available locally be used?

Air crew get 72 hours on a GD anywhere in the world, which includes flight engineers. I dare say if a problem is longer than 72 hours, you'd get local support.

[flyerguy]

Air crew get 72 hours on a GD anywhere in the world, which includes flight engineers. I dare say if a problem is longer than 72 hours, you'd get local support.


even the flight crew and cabin crew need a visa for a 24 hour layover in Goa so I doubt an engineer would be able to ‘walk in’

[22/04]

even the flight crew and cabin crew need a visa for a 24 hour layover in Goa so I doubt an engineer would be able to ‘walk in

I did ask because I know from experience India can be tight about these things.

[ROC10]

TUI are struggling today on what is arguably the first proper day of the ski season flights. They have had to charter a EuroAtlantic Airways 767 to operate yesterday’s LGW-LPA well over 24hrs late (must’ve been cancelled yesterday) and are suffering hefty delays from various bases. Definitely sent too many aircraft off to Sunwing this winter methinks (10 x 738). I suppose it must’ve been agreed prior to the MAX groundings but they’ll certainly be regretting it now.

[Vokes55]

TUI aren't "struggling" any more than any other airline. Almost every flight (from any airline) heading South or East today is picking up an ATC slot.

I'm sure the management will take into account the opinion of a FR24 obsessed spotter though.

[rog747]

TUI are struggling today on what is arguably the first proper day of the ski season flights. They have had to charter a EuroAtlantic Airways 767 to operate yesterday’s LGW-LPA well over 24hrs late (must’ve been cancelled yesterday) and are suffering hefty delays from various bases. Definitely sent too many aircraft off to Sunwing this winter methinks (10 x 738). I suppose it must’ve been agreed prior to the MAX groundings but they’ll certainly be regretting it now.

TUI flights are package holiday flights, and as such they are not normally ever ''cancelled'' but merely delayed (however badly) and here in the LPA case TUI seems to have subbed in an ACMI airline to play catch up.
Am surprised TUI let the LPA delay slip to 24+ hours but guess ACMI availability for a larger 757 capacity type was limited.
Normally TUI do a better job than most in getting their program back on track.

The Sunwing 738 winter swap round is likely bound by a contractual plan as you mention, and therefore TUI UK would have to let those planes go back over to Canada for Sunwing's busy season.
I would think it would have been untenable to renege on that contract at short notice, especially as Sunwing have their own MAX's grounded.

As for next winter (20/21) which sees huge expansion with new, and reintroduced routes for TUI I guess they are planning hard now with regard to covering the program, (let alone this coming summers!!) plus the nagging doubts of whether they will ever see the MAX RTS, then add in the looming retirement decisions = Do we/Don't we? of the remaining 757/767 fleet.

[toledoashley]

Had a notification today that a TUI LGW-GVA will be operated by EnterAir instead - same flt number/terminal/times etc.

[ROC10]

Has G-OOBC been WFU? It has flown to China via Dubai. Could be maintenance but seems pretty far.

[SWBKCB]

Has G-OOBC been WFU? It has flown to China via Dubai. Could be maintenance but seems pretty far.

Left the fleet - going for freighter conversion.

[ROC10]

Left the fleet - going for freighter conversion.

Thanks, I did think that might be the case as all of the other recently-withdrawn 757s (except BYAW) have gone to SF Airlines in China for cargo purposes.

[jethro15]

Left the fleet
Short term only

[ROC10]

Short term only

In what sense? Maintenance I’m guessing?

[MKY661]

It’ll be going for the annual charter tour, would be my guess

[ROC10]

It’ll be going for the annual charter tour, would be my guess

Could be but I don’t think so. G-OOBD and G-OOBF have already done that this year and to my knowledge, the tour never originates in China.

[awwdabaaby]

Could be but I don’t think so. G-OOBD and G-OOBF have already done that this year and to my knowledge, the tour never originates in China.

Its possible Icelandair has taken up the round the world trip as TUI couldn't fulfil the requirement due to the max grounding I'm sure

[ROC10]

Its possible Icelandair has taken up the round the world trip as TUI couldn't fulfil the requirement due to the max grounding I'm sure

As far as I’m aware the tours are done for this winter but could be wrong. I believe Titan will take over these duties from next winter due to TUI’s reduced 757 fleet.

[SWBKCB]

TUI’s chief executive of aviation Kenton Jarvis:
“In the UK we’re looking to add capacity,” Jarvis explains. “So we’ll be adding a lot of seats in the UK – 10, 12, 13, 14 aircraft will come in to add that capacity in the UK, because obviously Thomas Cook had 33 aircraft [in the country], so if we take our natural 30-35% market share that gives us a good opportunity to grow there.” For its 2020 fiscal year, beginning 1 October 2019, the operator expects “an underlying EBIT range of between approximately €950 million [$1.05 billion] to €1.05 billion, which includes an approximate €130 million cost impact from the 737 Max grounding, assuming a scenario whereby the Max returns to service by end of April 2020”. Should the Max not return by end-April, however, and TUI “has to plan for a continued grounding for the remainder of FY20”, the group assumes “a further cost of between approximately €220 million to €270 million”.Neither scenarios take into account potential compensation from Boeing.TUI aviation chief Kenton Jarvis on Boeing 737 Max grounding and Thomas Cook’s collapse (https://www.flightglobal.com/strategy/tui-aviation-chief-on-737-max-and-thomas-cook/135917.article)

[Yeehaw22]

As far as I’m aware the tours are done for this winter but could be wrong. I believe Titan will take over these duties from next winter due to TUI’s reduced 757 fleet.

Yes all vip work now done. Contract has come to an end. Titan, Tag aviation and a few others now operating them.

[LiamNCL]

Its intresting to see the comments by Kenton Jarvis about incoming aircraft.
Jethro's website has been updated today and shows the following

G-FDZG - Return to Lessor MAR 2020 (TBC)
G-OOBC - Returned to Lessor 9th December (to be leased back for 6 month)
G-OOBD - Return to Lessor Soon (to be leased back for 6 month)
G-OOBE - Return to Lessor APR 2020
G-OOBF - Return to Lessor FEB 2020

+ G-FDZE & G-CPEU which left after S19 where are these extra aircraft coming from as the MAX will not fly for Summer ?

[JonnyH]

Its intresting to see the comments by Kenton Jarvis about incoming aircraft.
Jethro's website has been updated today and shows the following

G-FDZG - Return to Lessor MAR 2020 (TBC)
G-OOBC - Returned to Lessor 9th December (to be leased back for 6 month)
G-OOBD - Return to Lessor Soon (to be leased back for 6 month)
G-OOBE - Return to Lessor APR 2020
G-OOBF - Return to Lessor FEB 2020

+ G-FDZE & G-CPEU which left after S19 where are these extra aircraft coming from as the MAX will not fly for Summer ?

I would imagine they’d use Sunwing and Titan again with the possibility of Olympus too (if SX-ABQ ever gets repaired). You’re probably looking at other operators picking up ex TCX A321s and offering them for lease prior to S20 too.

[LiamNCL]

I would imagine they’d use Sunwing and Titan again with the possibility of Olympus too (if SX-ABQ ever gets repaired). You’re probably looking at other operators picking up ex TCX A321s and offering them for lease prior to S20 too.

There will be leases needed for sure but they must be bringing aircraft in from somewhere surely as they have recruited TCX flight deck crew with them training on the 737 i was just curious as to where these will come from or if aircraft are intended to move to the UK from elsewhere in the TUI group.

[ROC10]

There will be leases needed for sure but they must be bringing aircraft in from somewhere surely as they have recruited TCX flight deck crew with them training on the 737 i was just curious as to where these will come from or if aircraft are intended to move to the UK from elsewhere in the TUI group.

Well I’d imagine they’re still very much hoping (and perhaps optimistically expecting) the MAX to be in service by at least the peak summer, however, they will of course be well aware this is far from certain and so will need to make contingency plans. The collapse of TCX has basically forced them to expand to fill some of the gap, however this is arguably the year in which they are least able to do so. If the MAX is active they could be fine as they will still have some of the older 800s plus some 757s, but of course if it is not, it’s hard to see how they won’t be in some sort of trouble.

Interesting sting to see the updates on Jethros. The 4 newest 757s seem to be the first to leave whilst TUI will retain the older ones, also suggests only two will be “leased back” presumably to cover the winter season whilst the 738s are in Canada and the MAX is still not in service. All of the recently-withdrawn 757s have/will become cargo machines in China. The EoL checks are being done in China so perhaps these will end up with a similar fate. The likes of G-OOBF is only 15 years old so it does seem rather sad for it to go to cargo but I guess very few airlines are looking for 757s anymore.

[SWBKCB]

it’s hard to see how they won’t be in some sort of trouble.

I'm sure they will be using all their years of experience of operating a major airline to come up with some alternatives. They've had a lot more time to plan than the original MAX grounding, and they coped then.

[ROC10]

I'm sure they will be using all their years of experience of operating a major airline to come up with some alternatives. They've had a lot more time to plan than the original MAX grounding, and they coped then.

I don’t doubt that they’re working hard on it but I still think they will struggle to deliver their current S20 programme without the MAX. They will have several fewer 757s than this year (provided they leave before summer) and fewer 738s too. They’ve had to bring in ACMI leased aircraft for several flights over the last week and this is winter (granted they are down 10 x 738 but S20 will require an awful lot more than that). I may be wrong but without the MAX, I’d expect consolidations and significant reshuffling. Of course they will be able to secure more leased aircraft but this is of course costly and often doesn’t go down well with passengers. The airlines are unfamiliar which is just about fine when things go to plan, however when things go wrong (tends to happen disproportionately more to the leased aircraft) they often go very wrong and would be difficult (not impossible but difficult) for TUI to recover.