TUI Airways

[ATNotts]

I can't see it being scrapped so young. The 757 makes so much money for airlines still that I think a number of airlines would jump at the chance of a younger example.

But it's all about economy, and the fuel burn on a new 737MAX has got to be so much lower than on a 1970 technology 757. I'm sure they'll find new homes though, probably as freighters.

[Vokes55]

But it's all about economy, and the fuel burn on a new 737MAX has got to be so much lower than on a 1970 technology 757. I'm sure they'll find new homes though, probably as freighters.

But the lease costs on 1970 technology 757s are much lower than on a new 737MAX.

Word around the camp fire is that TUI would’ve preferred to keep the 757s, but the leasing companies had already found new homes for them after freighter conversion.

[737James]

It would be interesting to here from some of the TUI crew on how the 737 Max fuel consumption varies against the 738's and also the 757's especially on the longer routes like LCA,PFO and HRG I know on the 738 the Eastern Med destinations are normally around 14-15 Tonnes fuel uplift ex UK

[ROC10]

Will the MAX be able to operate to/from BVC/SID? The only bases with these flights are LGW/MAN/BHX/BRS.

I’d imagine the MAX should be fine for LGW/MAN/BHX to BVC and SID. Likewise I’d imagine SID to LGW/MAN/BHX/BRS should be fine. However, not sure about BVC to LGW/MAN/BHX. I know the 757s will be around for another year or two but what will happen to Cape Verde flights when they leave? Are fuel stops liekely?

It appears BRS will lose both of its 757s this summer and will not gain any MAXs. With BRS-SID-BRS being taken off the Dreamliner, will the 738 manage this? I’m sure SID-BRS will be fine but not sure about the outbound.

[rog747]

But it's all about economy, and the fuel burn on a new 737MAX has got to be so much lower than on a 1970 technology 757. I'm sure they'll find new homes though, probably as freighters.

Although developed through the later 1970's as a 727 replacement (models 727-300, 7N7 & 7X7) the 757 and 767 were 1980's high tech - bloody awesome when we got them in 1983 - glass screens - common type rating - very advanced - loads of power - even more when in 1985 the E4 engine came along... ETOPS in 1988 - load it up and it flew almost anywhere - A couple of Palma's in the daytime and send it off to the Maldives in the evening.

If TOM are getting rid of these 757's sequentially they either are going back off lease, or could well be due a very expensive C check. (or both)

As for the 738 & Max BRS to Banjul and Cape Verde - Should be OK direct going south with 189 pax - The BRS runway is the limiting factor -
Coming back north, if you have head winds you may have to tech stop occasionally - and seems many Boa Vista 737 flights all stop at SAL on the way back including Max.
The 757 and 321 doesn't have to.

The 737-800 and Max are not the most perfect replacement for the 757 at BRS but TOM have decided that's the way they are going with fleet wide commonality.
The 235 seat A321NEO/LR/ACF Leap would have been a much better buy - not quite a 757 but getting there...

[MerchantVenturer]

The 737-800 and Max are not the most perfect replacement for the 757 at BRS but TOM have decided that's the way they are going with fleet wide commonality.

TUI has had a couple of B737-800s based at BRS alongside the two B757s each summer for a few years now. The 737s have not been restricted to the shorter routes either. Last summer for instance they operated to the likes of Hurghada, Cyprus, Greek Islands and the Canaries. Summer 2019 will see four 737-800s with the B787-8 serving the airport for five days each week and six routes, three of which are short haul. Last summer it was there for four days with four routes, all long haul (well, one was Sal which might not be considered truly long haul).

In terms of the B737-800 or MAX 8 not being the most perfect replacement for the 757 at BRS, do you mean operationally or comercially given the loss of seats brought about by replacing 757s with 737-800s or 737 MAX 8s if and when the latter arrive at BRS in the future? If operationally, have there been problems with the TUI 737s operating out of BRS (Ryanair has a substantial presence too of course). I have no technical knowledge although I thought I read something about the 737-800 brakes on shorter runways.

This is a genuine question by someone still keen to learn.

[rog747]

TUI has had a couple of B737-800s based at BRS alongside the two B757s each summer for a few years now. The 737s have not been restricted to the shorter routes either. Last summer for instance they operated to the likes of Hurghada, Cyprus, Greek Islands and the Canaries. Summer 2019 will see four 737-800s with the B787-8 serving the airport for five days each week and six routes, three of which are short haul. Last summer it was there for four days with four routes, all long haul (well, one was Sal which might not be considered truly long haul).

In terms of the B737-800 or MAX 8 not being the most perfect replacement for the 757 at BRS, do you mean operationally or commercially given the loss of seats brought about by replacing 757s with 737-800s or 737 MAX 8s if and when the latter arrive at BRS in the future? If operationally, have there been problems with the TUI 737s operating out of BRS (Ryanair has a substantial presence too of course). I have no technical knowledge although I thought I read something about the 737-800 brakes on shorter runways.

This is a genuine question by someone still keen to learn.

Great Q - Well the answer I guess is both ops and commercial.
My best pal (Just recently retired) was a TUI skipper at BRS since the late 1990's, coming from the RAF, working first for AMM/FCA on the Airbus 320/321 fleet which he loved, and the CFM56 engined versions suited BRS ops very well - much better over the IAE engined versions.
He morphed onto BY/TOM/TUI and the Boeing fleet took precedence in the merged Company so he had to convert to 757/767 (old fashioned flying again which he came to love, after losing his all bells and whistles on the Airbus which he adored - he liked his gadgets)
But the 757 he said was superb.

He told me he knew some years ago the 757's would all go at BRS to be replaced by the 738 - He was not happy as he knew the performance and uplift of the 757 for all the routes at BRS could never match the 738.
He also knew that if he went on the new fleet that diversions to BHX or CWL would be become more frequent as the 738 could not land at BRS in the same weather conditions that the 757's can easily handle - as we saw in storm Callum how a 757 can still get into BRS...

A 757 can seat over 220 seats and can go anywhere, but the 737's hold just 189...
For a package tour operator that is a lot of missing yield and margins £££ to replace.
He told me that at a TUI meeting a couple of years ago it was revealed that Thomsons will profit around a £ or so on each person's holiday booking, if not just pennies...
The buy on board food concept, plus getting rid of all short.medium haul IFE has made TOM a lot of money.
Meals are still free on some medium (such as Cape Verde) and all long haul flights.

So, really cut to the bone.

My pal said to me the new 235 seat A321LR/NEO/Leap with ACF would have been a much better buy - not quite a 757 but getting there but the Group stays with Boeing.

[MerchantVenturer]

Many thanks for that detailed reply, rog. Best wishes.

[VickersVicount]

How many 738 diversions have there been?

[hec7or]

Brits built the business model on destinations around the Med and North Africa for which the 757 was optimal. The 738 can't replace the 757....time to change the business model?

[rog747]

Brits built the business model on destinations around the Med and North Africa for which the 757 was optimal. The 738 can't replace the 757....time to change the business model?

Indeed and also the 757 found massive work on missions for which really it was not designed for which the Brits used to their advantage -
Later on the 767-300 and the A330 replaced the 757's on those routes eventually.

These 757 long range missions were from the UK - to the Maldives Mexico Caribbean Orlando Mombasa Colombo Goa Agra Kerala Thailand (using BGR BAH DXB HER LXR IST as regular Tech stops for these kind of places)

Some EU and Eastern European airlines today fly their 737-800 and Max's to far flung holiday places such as Mombasa and Zanzibar - with tech stops

[NorthEasterner]

Looks like TUI's 737 Max 8 operations will be suspended as the UK announce blanket ban for all 737M8 aircraft in and out of UK airports.

http://news.sky.com/story/boeing-to-issue-software-update-to-make-737-max-safer-11662753

[737James]

Looks like 3 of them are still airborne now two of which are inbound to the UK, I assume TUI have been told they can bring the aircraft currently airborne back to Manchester but G -TUMF will be grounded in TFS

[ROC10]

Currently:
G-TUMA in MAN
G-TUMB in MAN
G-TUMC in MAN
G-TUMD in MAN
G-TUMF in TFS
G-TUMG in MAN

Not ideal having one stuck in TFS as passenegers will have to be rescued and no one can be sure how long it will be stuck there. I suspect TUI may have anticipated this, hence not sending a MAX to HRG as it would have been far from ideal being stuck there.

Fortunately, for now anyway, they have announced that all flights will operate as planned but on different aircraft rather than cancelling anything. I know it is never in TUI’s interests to cancel flights (being a holiday company) but will they have enough slack in the schedule to cover this? I suspect some days may be fine but others not so much (Saturday ski flights spring to mind). I would imagine this will involve a huge number of positioning flights and possible leasing/chartering of other aircraft. A fair few of their aircraft (737/767) are still on lease in Canada and Scandinavia as well as 787s frequently working from Scandinavia and 757 withdrawal plans.

[MKY661]

TOM2203 now has a 7 hour delay so looks like staying at TFS

[daz211]

TUI airline group grounds all Boeing #737MAX aircraft across their European operations.

[P330]

I presume MF can be ferried back as a non-commercial flight when appropriate. The edict today is for commercial flights.

[virginblue]

With German airspace now closed for all MAX, operating the type across Europe would be quite tricky anyway.

[rog747]

Its still winter season so TUI should be able to cover their own Ops - but if the MAX no fly ban goes on for ages then yes their S19 season will be a trial for TOM/BY and their TUI Benelux counterparts to cover...
Maybe they are de-mothballing any 757's they have just sent back as we speak.(and keeping the 767's)

As for DY/D8/DI/NAX they have a much bigger MAX fleet based in the UK and they do fly charters for TUI Hols.

Enter Air will not be able to fly S19 for Sunvil Holidays own Greece and Greek Islands charter series with any of their MAX fleet if the ban goes on into the Season.

[LiamNCL]

G-TAWX will be in TFS soon to operate TOM2203 TFS-MAN

[chaps1954]

Just heard on ground frequency at MAN a 737MAX being towed for long term parking on taxiway Z which I think is the new taxiway in pier 1 T2 unles MAG are going to use it for trials
on pier

[EZYMAN]

Just heard on ground frequency at MAN a 737MAX being towed for long term parking on taxiway Z which I think is the new taxiway in pier 1 T2 unles MAG are going to use it for trials
on pier

All aircraft going to park on Taxiway so they don’t take up stands which are required at MAN. All TUI 737MAX will be doing.

[cornishsimon]

Which kind of begs the question why MAN didn’t insist that the ones in the air diverted somewhere with sufficient parking available rather than MAN


cs

[HH6702]

The reason being that the planes had passengers onboard.
the crew want to be back at home base
maintence hanger at Manchester do I need to carry on

parking charges to be paid still

[AirportPlanner1]

In the eventuality no fault is found with the aircraft and the Lion and Ethiopian incidents are unrelated or found to be pilot error, who picks up the bill? Could TUI charge or sue the CAA? Insurance? Parking is one thing but five aircraft out could be very costly and tricky to cover, it’s perhaps fine today but Easter and the summer season aren’t far off.

[mik3bravo]

Should be insurance cover under airlines operating policy covering costs and expenses resulting from regulator initiated actions in response to a wider global aviation event. Though I doubt insurance underwriters will sit back and accept such risk specific to any new aircraft scenario. Possible some underwriters may look to exclude potential cover relating to a specific new aircraft. In which case, if product defect determined and manufacturer negligence determined, that may present route to legal remedy, perhaps? Could product modifications after the event be considered an admission of an issue in the inherent product safety? Who knows, only the lawyers and courts will decide.

[ROC10]

Today's STN flight operated by Titan A321 as G-FDZS positioned to BHX last night and is currently operating BHX-PFO with a 7 hour delay.

[TSR2]

TUI have had a rough time with Boeing these past years. Dreamliner delays now 737 problems.

[clipstone1]

Should be insurance cover under airlines operating policy covering costs and expenses resulting from regulator initiated actions in response to a wider global aviation event. Though I doubt insurance underwriters will sit back and accept such risk specific to any new aircraft scenario. Possible some underwriters may look to exclude potential cover relating to a specific new aircraft. In which case, if product defect determined and manufacturer negligence determined, that may present route to legal remedy, perhaps? Could product modifications after the event be considered an admission of an issue in the inherent product safety? Who knows, only the lawyers and courts will decide.

A standard airlines Hull & Liability insurance policy does not cover "consequential costs/business interruption" so it is unlikely the airlines own insurances will cover the costs incurred for a) carrying on flying using other aircraft or sub-charters b) the ongoing lease payments on the grounded aircraft c) additional cost of parking and storage. Every airline will now have a claim against Boeing to try to recover those costs, however I believe Boeing have a cap on the amount they insure for "type grounding" based on an amount per aircraft and a total amount across all aircraft. The amount Boeing insure of course does not limit the amount they become liable for (wouldn't want to be Boeing or their insurer right now). Does however mean that I am sure the airlines will not recover 100% of the interuption costs they incur.

[ROC10]

G-TAWJ which has been working for Jet Time all winter (and I believe should still be over there) is currently positioning over to MAN. Suggestions today the MAX will be grounded until at least May.

[FR8364]

Hello,

Any hints about TUI adding some more flights on MAN/LGW to IBZ routes for this summer? Last year some B787/767 night-rotations for July/August went on sale very late (around May/June maybe?). I wonder if this year they are expecting to operate these frequencies or otherwise they will be lost. As well, will we see any widebody operating these routes this summer? I think at least MAN was operated by 767 on weekly basis...

Thnx!

[clipstone1]

G-TAWJ which has been working for Jet Time all winter (and I believe should still be over there) is currently positioning over to MAN. Suggestions today the MAX will be grounded until at least May.


whilst operated by Jet Time, the aircraft was actually flying for TUI Nordic...so not 100% leased out really, just utilising someone elses pilots effectively

[azz767]

Hello,

Any hints about TUI adding some more flights on MAN/LGW to IBZ routes for this summer? Last year some B787/767 night-rotations for July/August went on sale very late (around May/June maybe?). I wonder if this year they are expecting to operate these frequencies or otherwise they will be lost. As well, will we see any widebody operating these routes this summer? I think at least MAN was operated by 767 on weekly basis...

Thnx!

the Friday afternoon flight from MAN was definitely a 767, I was on it a lot and the flight times are the same if not very similar this year so I would think that flight will be w/b, from memory, on around 4 days a week MAN flights were wide body into IBZ so I’d imagine this year will be the same

[azz767]

According to Jethros, TUI withdrew another 757 in the last couple of days. Have they got enough slack in the fleet to cover the max groundings? I would have thought delaying 757 retirements would have been the easiest way to cover the loss of the max for a few months.

[sixchannel]

According to Jethros, TUI withdrew another 757 in the last couple of days. Have they got enough slack in the fleet to cover the max groundings? I would have thought delaying 757 retirements would have been the easiest way to cover the loss of the max for a few months.
Perhaps the Lease has ended and they have already been sold on??

[ROC10]

G-OOBG wfu and at DGX now. Probably not ideal at all for TOM, however as previously mentioned, they probably don’t have a choice in the matter. G-CPEV is also due to be wfu soon.

However I believe the ski flights are now ending with many of the outbound flights last weekend going out empty to bring passengers back, resulting in many bizarre movements. Fewer ski flights may make things a little easier although the summer season is fast approaching.

G-TAWO is in QLA, presumably for major maintainance, as it was swapped with G-FDZX yesterday which had been there for two weeks. G-OOBA has also been idle at LTN since 28 Feb.

Does anyone know what has happened with G-TAWY (SE-RFX)? It operated for TOM for several months under its Swedish registration, then went to LTN for a while, was re-registered to G-TAWY, didn’t operate any TOM flights, then flew to ARN. It now seems to be back under its old registration with TUI operating for Go2Sky. TOM need their 738s now more than ever so find this a bit strange.

[rog747]

Perhaps the Lease has ended and they have already been sold on??
Yup and maybe a C check due as well £££££

[MKY661]

Does anyone know what has happened with G-TAWY (SE-RFX)? It operated for TOM for several months under its Swedish registration, then went to LTN for a while, was re-registered to G-TAWY, didn’t operate any TOM flights, then flew to ARN. It now seems to be back under its old registration with TUI operating for Go2Sky. TOM need their 738s now more than ever so find this a bit strange.

Jethros site states that it will return back to TUI Airways once the 737 MAX are back in service. They effectively lost all of their 737 service because of that.

[azz767]

Per Jethros, G-OBYF and G-OBYK have transferred to the Nordic register. Is this a permanent transfer or summer only? The split is normally 2 in Scandi and 2 in the UK in summer.

[ROC10]

Per Jethros, G-OBYF and G-OBYK have transferred to the Nordic register. Is this a permanent transfer or summer only? The split is normally 2 in Scandi and 2 in the UK in summer.

It would make sense to transfer them as - like you say - two are always there in the summer (although usually YH is there) and all of them are there in the winter.

[SWBKCB]

TUI has revised its full-year guidance, stating that it expects a 17% reduction in underlying EBITA, whereas it had previously indicated that the figure would be “broadly flat” compared with last year’s level of €1.117 milion. But it adds that, should the grounding persist beyond mid-July, this reduction will increase to 26%.

TUI has taken steps to secure capacity for the Easter holiday period and the initial part of the summer season, activating spare aircraft within its fleet and extending leases for aircraft which were due for replacement by 737 Max jets. The company says it is also leasing-in additional aircraft.

Flight - "TUI sources capacity as it outlines impact of Max grounding" (https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/tui-sources-capacity-as-it-outlines-impact-of-max-gr-457004/)

[azz767]

There is also an article saying the 767's are getting a cabin refurb. Are they going to lose their IFE? Its one of the main reasons we always select the 767 flight to IBZ when we go in the summer

[2Para]

Wonder will we see the sunwing aircraft any earlier?

[Cazza_fly]

There is also an article saying the 767's are getting a cabin refurb. Are they going to lose their IFE? Its one of the main reasons we always select the 767 flight to IBZ when we go in the summer

The plan is not to lose the IFE as they are planned for long-haul Scandi ops. However, i definitely can't see the benefit of IFE on a 2 hour flight to IBZ that would be the main reason for booking?

[davidjohnson6]

From whom are TUI going to source 737 Max replacements ? There aren't that many ACMI 150+ seat aircraft floating around from airlines that would be considered reliable enough for this. Leasing a worn out 30 year old A320 from a startup in a country in Europe that is sourcing aircraft from a boneyard and crewed with super-cheap labour is probably not ideal, unless TUI are prepared to deal with the bad PR when it (most likely) all goes wrong in July (probably while French ATC are on strike, just to make thing more interesting !)

[ROC10]

Does anyone know why G-TAWG today flew:

BHX-ORK-EDI
(12 hours on ground at EDI)
EDI-ORK-GLA

Edit: after a quick search I’m assuming a rugby charter.

[rog747]

From whom are TUI going to source 737 Max replacements ? There aren't that many ACMI 150+ seat aircraft floating around from airlines that would be considered reliable enough for this. Leasing a worn out 30 year old A320 from a startup in a country in Europe that is sourcing aircraft from a boneyard and crewed with super-cheap labour is probably not ideal, unless TUI are prepared to deal with the bad PR when it (most likely) all goes wrong in July (probably while French ATC are on strike, just to make thing more interesting !)

Indeed, ACMI Leasing from less well known and perhaps less salubrious airlines is well underway with both TUI and TCK for many years
Sunwing Smartwings Smartlynx etc etc

There could be some aircraft out there from failed airlines ie: WOW Cobalt Primera Small Planet and Germania.

TUI, Jet2, Icelandic and TCK have all recently retired 757's but it seems their fates are either freighter conversations or the scrap-man.

TUI are using more 3rd party airlines from outstations such as Norwegian Air Europa Freebird Albastar and Volotea.

Titan AW are likely to have their fleet already booked out with BA and Jet2, plus they have their own IT work all of which was in situ before the MAX debacle

Other ACMI airlines include EuroAtlantic Air Belgium Evelop Wamos HiFly and Privilege Style

[Buster the Bear]

Jettime are working their backsides off subbing for TUI currently. They already have a strong relationship with the brand after TUI Nordic closure.

[rog747]

Ah - thanks and Enter Air works with TUI Poland

[Cloud1]

Actually most have been and continue to be Titan with some Privilege for Nordics. I think Air Tanker are doing the odd rotation too.

Not aware that any of the other airlines listed by posters have been sourced yet. Also haven’t seen jettime doing any subs for Nordics since the Max stopped only Privilege and a G-reg B737 from TOM that went over.

[compton3bravo]

The aircraft ROC10 did a charter for the rugby match between Edinburgh and Munster at Murrayfield.I hope that helps.

[VC10man]

I hope Thomson (TUI is a daft name) keep their 757s longer and get back the ones which were retired a few weeks ago. Much nicer plane than a boring 737!

[VickersVicount]

... but increasingly expensive to maintain and poorer fuel efficiency?

[737James]

I know a few people keep saying about the poorer fuel efficiency of the 757 compared to the 737/Max, Does anybody know how much trip fuel a full 757 take off with on say BHX-LCA compared to the 737 which i know would be around 14 Tonnes for 738 maybe a bit less for the Max.

[rog747]

757 can carry up to 228-235 pax v.v the 737-800 with 189 pax

757 burns around 3.3 to 3.5 or so tonnes ph

738 2.5 tonnes 189 pax
A321 2.7 tonnes 220 pax

BAC 1-11 500 2.8 tonnes 119 pax
Comet 4C 4 tonnes 119 pax
Trident 3 4.5 tonnes 139 pax
707-320/420 6.5-7 tonnes 189 pax
VC-10 6.5 tonnes 135 pax

fuel burn figs are ''rough'' but a guide

[rog747]

I know a few people keep saying about the poorer fuel efficiency of the 757 compared to the 737/Max, Does anybody know how much trip fuel a full 757 take off with on say BHX-LCA compared to the 737 which i know would be around 14 Tonnes for 738 maybe a bit less for the Max.

This just came up on the 757 nostalgia thread and highlights what you can do with a 757 that a 737-800 or an A321 can never match...

In 1991 an Air Europe Capt flew KHI-LGW nonstop in 9h 5m with 229 pax (all heavy Danes going home from holiday in BKK to CPH)

Quote from the skipper - (Brakedwell)
The planned routing was BKK - KHI - BEL - LGW - Copenhagen with a full load of large Danes. I was keen to reduce the aggro caused by an impending Gulf War and used every trick I had learned when flying DC-8 freighters. As it was a night flight traffic was light and we were given optimum flight levels for most of the route. I used manual throttles a lot as the auto-throttles tended to hunt up and down at that time. Numerous direct routings also helped. At TOD around Abbeville the fuel was comfortably above the line and well above the legal minimum on shut down.

I wonder if that puts him in the 757 record books ?
KHI-LGW with 229 pax in 9h 5m

Another skipper managed to fly Puerto Plata (POP) to Manchester with an almost a full load in just 8h 50m and another Capt mentions he tried to do POP to LGW but chickened out and went to Cardiff for some gas after 8h 20m. It was a VERY full load of 233 and some very old 'children' on the load sheet,(if you know what I mean)!!

I was Ops controller at Ogdens when we handled AE until the end so I may have met Capt ''Brakedwell''
I often wandered out to the 757's to see how the turnarounds were going...
A few pals were AE CC and my flatmate was a BY 757/767 skipper

We shall all miss the 757

[dmouse88]

I hope Thomson (TUI is a daft name) keep their 757s longer and get back the ones which were retired a few weeks ago. Much nicer plane than a boring 737!

TUI is a tla from the initial company in Germany. Tourisk Union International.

[VC10man]

TUI is a tla from the initial company in Germany. Tourisk Union International.

I know it is now a German company but it trades on the London Stock Exchange and the brand "Thomson" was well known and respected. I think it is a marketing mistake to change it to a silly sounding childish name like TUI which rhymes with huwey.

[Cazza_fly]

I know it is now a German company but it trades on the London Stock Exchange and the brand "Thomson" was well known and respected. I think it is a marketing mistake to change it to a silly sounding childish name like TUI which rhymes with huwey.

TUI is almost as old as Thomson. I'm sure most would agree that the UK market would have preferred to have retained the well known Thomson name, but operationally and logistically it makes sense to keep the masterbrand under one name across all their markets. Especially markets in which they all serve. They have managed to keep a number of sub-brands in their local country markets including First Choice Holidays and Skytours in the UK.

TUI were very clever at introducing their name and image steadily from 2002. Bringing their brands and family under the "World of TUI" umbrella. Initially standardising the then Britannia Airways, Lunn Poly and Thomson names under the same look and smile logo. The UK market has thus come to know this very well.

I don't quite understand how anyone can see the companies 'acronym' of TUI sound childish? I suppose it could be more childish to think it ryhmes with random names...

[sparkie320]

Do we know what bases the Sunwings are using this year assume NWI BFS DUB but not sure on LBA
4 are coming across with possibly a 5th
also who looking are maintance was MRL at LBA

Mark

[LiamNCL]

Do we know what bases the Sunwings are using this year assume NWI BFS DUB but not sure on LBA
4 are coming across with possibly a 5th
also who looking are maintance was MRL at LBA

Mark

TUI dont have a base at LBA this year

[VC10man]

TUI is almost as old as Thomson. I'm sure most would agree that the UK market would have preferred to have retained the well known Thomson name, but operationally and logistically it makes sense to keep the masterbrand under one name across all their markets. Especially markets in which they all serve. They have managed to keep a number of sub-brands in their local country markets including First Choice Holidays and Skytours in the UK.

TUI were very clever at introducing their name and image steadily from 2002. Bringing their brands and family under the "World of TUI" umbrella. Initially standardising the then Britannia Airways, Lunn Poly and Thomson names under the same look and smile logo. The UK market has thus come to know this very well.

I don't quite understand how anyone can see the companies 'acronym' of TUI sound childish? I suppose it could be more childish to think it ryhmes with random names...



How are TUI share prices doing recently? Many companies who change their names from well known ones don't do as well after. I'm thinking Thomas Cook made a right old cock up with their name changes. I still say Tewey sounds childish.

[sixchannel]

How are TUI share prices doing recently? Many companies who change their names from well known ones don't do as well after. I'm thinking Thomas Cook made a right old cock up with their name changes. I still say Tewey sounds childish.
A bit like Wizz or even worse poor Wow you mean? Worries me when I see a high tech business dumbing down. The fault of smart---d focus groups I expect.
Makes me wonder what else they are.

[double-oscar]

After the name change the share price reached a record high of just over £18. The company was seen as a growth stock as it moved its business focus to cruise ships and hotels. The current share price is due to difficult trading conditions and partly the grounding of the 737MAX. However, TUI is probably best placed to come through these difficulties unlike Thomas Cook which is some way behind in their business transformation.

[ROC10]

Do we know what bases the Sunwings are using this year assume NWI BFS DUB but not sure on LBA
4 are coming across with possibly a 5th
also who looking are maintance was MRL at LBA

Mark

According to Jethros, 5 are coming over: 2 at DUB, 1 at BFS, 1 at ABZ, 1 at NWI.

ABZ was last year served by a TOM aircraft so this marks a change - possibly due to potential MAX grounding. However Sunwing are also using the MAX so may struggle giving away so many 738s.

Good news is that TOM seems to be receiving its 738s back from Sunwing, G-FDZF is at DGX.

[compton3bravo]

TUI might sound childish to some but the company are the largest tour and travel company in the world. I remember seeing TUI tour buses in Majorca in 1963 when Thomson was still Universal Sky Tours flying the Bristol Britannia. It became Thomson in 1965 when the Canadian media group decided to invest into the UK tourist market.

[737James]

I notice for summer 2019 that TUI have learnt from issues last summer on LCA and PFO flights on Sunday nights where the average inbound delay was 48 mins mainly due to delays getting aircraft turned around and slot restrictions in the Nicosia sector

So this year a number of Sunday night flights will have 1h15 to 1hr 40 min turnarounds to try and make it appear that the inbound flights operate more on time which I am sure customers will like just means a bit longer day for the crew

[sixchannel]

What's to like?
A fudging exercise for those keeping such scores.
Pax and crew still get home same time they always did.

[737James]

Six Channel- I agree its all a PR exercise to make look like on time performance is better, Customers may like it a bit more as wont have that belief that they have been delayed. It should be a bit better at LCA on Sunday nights this year as you havent got Cobalt which had around 8-10 inbounds and 5 outbounds between 22:00 and 01:30

My worry is all the other Jet2,Easyjet,Thomas Cook flights etc will still be getting the slot restrictions and turnaround delays and the TUi aircraft get delayed still as the ground agents have it in their mind that Tui have these long turnarounds . I think BHX is the worst one where there is a 1hr 40min turnaround at PFO so therefore making the crew days even longer i remember last year there was a few instances where quite small delays meant crew went out of hours

[SWBKCB]

Six Channel- I agree its all a PR exercise to make look like on time performance is better

Blimey - looks like "heads I lose, tails you win" for TUI here. If they'd done nothing there'd have been people on moaning about constant delays...

[sixchannel]

Blimey - looks like "heads I lose, tails you win" for TUI here. If they'd done nothing there'd have been people on moaning about constant delays...
Quite so. I'd moan too if the turnaround time was "unrealistic" and my expected TO time was more than an hour (or worse) late and due to pre-known and expected circumstances..
You can fool some if the people - - etc
Reflect "Reality" so punters can book holidays knowing (more or less) what time they really will get home.
And surely it helps TUI Crew Planning so that pilots dont go out of hours, simply waiting.

[2Para]

What's to like?
A fudging exercise for those keeping such scores.
Pax and crew still get home same time they always did.
maybe to keep the compensation outfits a bit quieter, they will cause more airlines to go bust like this..

[sixchannel]

maybe to keep the compensation outfits a bit quieter, they will cause more airlines to go bust like this..
By telling the Truth?
When I book our Hols, I look at when we will land UK and it's part of a conscious decision process.
Its it's going to be Stupid o'clock, and so many second rotation flights are, I'd sooner know now rather than fume on the day at Stupid o'clock Plus 2 hrs.
Maybe TUI will set Precedent for Honesty.

[Trinity 09L]

Can you assist with the operator & a/c type for TOM 4482 in view of the current a/c changes. :ok:

[dmouse88]

Can you assist with the operator & a/c type for TOM 4482 in view of the current a/c changes. :ok:

According to flt mapper it should be a TUI boeing 737-8 although the flight on the 1st april was a 757.

[rog747]

I notice for summer 2019 that TUI have learnt from issues last summer on LCA and PFO flights on Sunday nights where the average inbound delay was 48 mins mainly due to delays getting aircraft turned around and slot restrictions in the Nicosia sector

So this year a number of Sunday night flights will have 1h15 to 1hr 40 min turnarounds to try and make it appear that the inbound flights operate more on time which I am sure customers will like just means a bit longer day for the crew

In reality once the a/c arrives at destination (LCA or PFO) in the middle of the night the homeward flight should have all been checked in by then, and the pax at the gate>

The crew taking it back will want the pax on ASAP to get going, especially on a 11 hour+ duty day at night, unless they are landing time restricted back in the UK ie no arrivals before say 06.00...
If the local departure slots are restrictive then once the pax are all on board the skipper will call ready to start and try for an earlier slot - either via with their own Ops in UK or via the tower.
9 times out of 10 one can get going home much sooner for everyone's sake

[Twiglet1]

Six Channel- I agree its all a PR exercise to make look like on time performance is better, Customers may like it a bit more as wont have that belief that they have been delayed. It should be a bit better at LCA on Sunday nights this year as you havent got Cobalt which had around 8-10 inbounds and 5 outbounds between 22:00 and 01:30

My worry is all the other Jet2,Easyjet,Thomas Cook flights etc will still be getting the slot restrictions and turnaround delays and the TUi aircraft get delayed still as the ground agents have it in their mind that Tui have these long turnarounds . I think BHX is the worst one where there is a 1hr 40min turnaround at PFO so therefore making the crew days even longer i remember last year there was a few instances where quite small delays meant crew went out of hours

In a previous life the standard line was sorry Captain you cannot advise you won't use discretion for the return flight on report as you might get to XXX and feel fresh as a daisy.
So call us when you arrive in XXX. On arrival in XXX as the passengers came off the front steps, the homeward pax came up the rear steps.
Then if it all went pete tongue wrong and crew went out of hours - rest assured the crews would be put up in the same Hotel as the angry punters.
This EU compensation rule means that airlines are paying a lot more attention to block and turn times.....

[737James]

Roj747- I presume that you have not been down to LCA or PFO on a Saturday or Sunday recently you have zero chance in my experience of getting an earlier slot plus no chance of getting the ground agent to load the pax or aircraft until the last minute,

Both airports are chaos often requiring outbound flights from UK to be delayed as they simply have no space for you or any spare steps. There was some weeks last year that aircraft would arrive and the pax would disembark from rear stairs once off those steps were took to another aircraft to be used and you had just front steps for return to UK.

It is not helped that most LCA departures are on a Pafos2B SID which takes traffic directly over PFO airport often only around 8000ft then all the traffic is on a TOBAL departure up towards Turkey but mixed in with this you have the traffic from TLV and AMM.

[rog747]

oh for the 727/737, 1-11 or DC-9 with built in air stairs lol

I bet TUI are lamenting not having the air stairs option on the 737-800's anymore lol

thanks for the chaos update 737J -- sounds like JMK Mykonos - in my day we sent down 2 or 3 737's every other day - now it's 4 or 5 every hour on many days

[Buster the Bear]

TUI are in the market for used 737s. That clearly indicates the MAX issue is far from short term?

[Smudge's Lot]

Latest estimate is end of June/mid-july at the earliest for the MAXs to be back in the air....

[sixchannel]

Latest estimate is end of June/mid-july at the earliest for the MAXs to be back in the air....
Er - I think I'll wait a few months after that before i book ANY flight or Holiday that uses a MAX.
Any company that puts profit before people doesn't get my business. And we've no wish to become a further statistic of Boeing's cavalier attitude to safety if it turns out that "The Fix" isn't one.

[azz767]

TUI are in the market for used 737s. That clearly indicates the MAX issue is far from short term?

I'd love to know where they plan on finding some.

Any airline that was in transition as TUI were from NG to MAX wont be letting their NG's go for cheap if at all as they will need them.

[Smudge's Lot]

Er - I think I'll wait a few months after that before i book ANY flight or Holiday that uses a MAX.
Any company that puts profit before people doesn't get my business. And we've no wish to become a further statistic of Boeing's cavalier attitude to safety if it turns out that "The Fix" isn't one.

I don't think I said anywhere above that TUI intends to put the MAX into the air without any "fix". It's been grounded by Aviation Authorities, not by individual airlines.
How does that put profit before people????

[rog747]

TUI have a strategic decision to make now ( if not been done already) that the MAX will be written out of the S19 schedules and to source replacement a/c, and/or try to utilise their own fleet as optimal as possible to cover the shortfall of up to 9 x 189 seat a/c just in the UK

6 MAX are parked and 3 more were due soon to join TUI UK
That loss of uplift is around 150 flights (departures) a week (based on a conservative 2.5 rotations per day)

They simply cannot attempt to re-jig the schedules in mid season, even if (and very unlikely) we see the MAX certificated again sometime this year.

The press reports that 2 or 3 EU airlines have taken their MAX out of the summer schedules and UFN and AA in the USA have canx 7100 flights (24 a/c)
Ryanair MAX200 were due for this summer - not happening now.

[737James]

I have a feeling that TUI may have already made the decision to not include the Max aircraft in their summer schedules, As it has been noticed in the last week a number of flights to Turkey that were due to be on Tui aircraft has now been moved to Freebird airlines often doing two rotations a day for Tui from DLM and AYT.

Further to this there appears to have been some capacity cutbacks made for example on Weds from MAN and LGW to PFO they were due to have Dreamliner out in the morning and then a 738 or Max in the late afternoon instead there will just be the Dreamliner flight which will just push the holiday costs up and expect that they start using more ad hoc capacity with TCX and EZY

[Stuart2525]

Just checked my seat plan for a flight in Aug from BRS to PFO. It’s changed from a 737 to 757, so maybe the decision has been made to keep at least one 757 at BRS for S19.

[sixchannel]

I don't think I said anywhere above that TUI intends to put the MAX into the air without any "fix". It's been grounded by Aviation Authorities, not by individual airlines.
How does that put profit before people????
I meant the B word, not TUI.

[MKY661]

Jehtro's site has stated that G-CPEV's lease may be extended in regards to the 737 MAX issues.

[azz767]

Air Tankers G-VYGM (destined for a summer with Jet2) is operating a FUE - MAN flight as we speak and did TFS yesterday.

IS this staying with TOM right up until it goes to EXS or just filling in for a couple of days?

[shamrock7seal]

It seems from schedule patterns that BOH is getting a second based aircraft for 2020 summer Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. Does TUI do this anywhere else? It seems odd to only double up at certain days of the week. Perhaps there is more to be loaded?

[PDXCWL45]

It seems from schedule patterns that BOH is getting a second based aircraft for 2020 summer Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. Does TUI do this anywhere else? It seems odd to only double up at certain days of the week. Perhaps there is more to be loaded?
Probably more to be loaded.

[Dropoffcharge]

Probably more to be loaded.

Agreed, almost certainly more to come, as I can't see them dropping Ibiza and Mahon, both of which have been long running and obviously very popular.

[FR8364]

It seems TUI is dropping contract with Norwegian. Loads of flights base LGW in the beginning scheduled to operate by Norwegian (D8), now appearing as Thomson Airways (BY) in the last days.

I wonder how TUI will manage this fleet issue, absorbing D8 flights as well as 737 MAX grounding...

[inOban]

Since Norwegian is leasing several a/c for their scheduled ops (see routes online), they would presumably have to lease more for these chartered services. Maybe simpler for TUI to charter their own directly.

[azz767]

Since Norwegian is leasing several a/c for their scheduled ops (see routes online), they would presumably have to lease more for these chartered services. Maybe simpler for TUI to charter their own directly.

And lease directly too. One of the Titan A321's destined for Jet2 this summer has been working for TOM out of STN for the last couple of weeks. Air Tanker G-VYGM was working out of MAN for a while, G-POWD 767-300 from Titan is working out of MAN today and had done LGW in the last week, and also SE-RFR a 767 from the Nordics (ex G-OBYK) did a LPA run from LGW last week two.

It seems however that firstly as more of the 737's come back from Canada their is less need to lease currently (peak summer may be wholly different), but it seems that other than the titan A321 which has done STN services consistently for a number of weeks, the others are one offs, or a couple of days here and there, and that its only certain days of the week where they are short and it mainly seems to be MAN and LGW where they are using the leased a/c to cover the shortfall.

I wonder though as we move to peak summer time, is there going to be anything coming in for the whole summer to cover the max issue? (I know some of the 757's are staying longer but will that be enough to cover?)

[Sharklet_321]

Any 757 operating from CWL this summer now that MAX is grounded?

[PDXCWL45]

Any 757 operating from CWL this summer now that MAX is grounded?

no the base will be all 737

[cheesebag]

My flight on Thursday from MAN - ACE is now scheduled to be on a 789... Nice upgrade to the premium seats for just £15!!!!

Return a week later showing 752

[cheesebag]

Both originally 737

[shamrock7seal]

Summer 2020

New route boh to zante

increased frequency boh to corfu (1 to 2 weekly)

[Vokes55]

It seems TUI is dropping contract with Norwegian. Loads of flights base LGW in the beginning scheduled to operate by Norwegian (D8), now appearing as Thomson Airways (BY) in the last days.

I wonder how TUI will manage this fleet issue, absorbing D8 flights as well as 737 MAX grounding...

The flights will still be operated by Norwegian, they’re just changing the code and flight numbers. Probably a Brexit related issue

[mariofly12]

I have been looking at some flights from Greece to UK and although the Tui site during booking does not specify what aircraft is being used,apart from 787 cases, i was wondering when it's denoted with "extra-legroom" seats as opposed to not saying anything at all, are we to assume that the first case concerns 757 and 767 a/c but the latter just 738s?

[PDXCWL45]

I have been looking at some flights from Greece to UK and although the Tui site during booking does not specify what aircraft is being used,apart from 787 cases, i was wondering when it's denoted with "extra-legroom" seats as opposed to not saying anything at all, are we to assume that the first case concerns 757 and 767 a/c but the latter just 738s?

The 737s do have extra legroom seats i believe as they are offered on CWL flights which is all 737.

[FRatSTN]

Looks as if BRS will have a B787 based full time in Summer 20 operating the following departures:

Mon
0600 LPA
1645 BOJ

Tue
0930 CUN

Wed
0910 PMI
1510 DLM

Thu
1215 SFB

Fri
0945 CUN

Sat
0925 PMI
1655 DLM

Sun
0705 HER
1730 AYT

Positive gain for BRS but with only actually 3 long-haul a week (1 SFB and 2 CUN), I can't help but feel this is a bit of a wasted use for the B787. I can see the justification for the odd short-haul maybe from the likes of LGW or MAN to fill in any gaps between long-haul rotations or positioners between bases.

I don't wish to start any airport battles, but I do find it rather unreal that long-haul from the likes of STN and EMA has been canned in favour of long-haul from DSA and flying a B787 mid-week from BRS to Spain!

[azz767]

Looks as if BRS will have a B787 based full time in Summer 20 operating the following departures:

Mon
0600 LPA
1645 BOJ

Tue
0930 CUN

Wed
0910 PMI
1510 DLM

Thu
1215 SFB

Fri
0945 CUN

Sat
0925 PMI
1655 DLM

Sun
0705 HER
1730 AYT

Positive gain for BRS but with only actually 3 long-haul a week (1 SFB and 2 CUN), I can't help but feel this is a bit of a wasted use for the B787. I can see the justification for the odd short-haul maybe from the likes of LGW or MAN to fill in any gaps between long-haul rotations or positioners between bases.

I don't wish to start any airport battles, but I do find it rather unreal that long-haul from the likes of STN and EMA has been canned in favour of long-haul from DSA and flying a B787 mid-week from BRS to Spain!

might they use an short haul configured frame likey they usually have 2 each summer. The 787 in all economy would still be able to do CUN and SFB in all economy. I can’t think they’d need the premium seats at BRS. Then they have the capacity for the short haul routes as well? I might be way off but just a thought

[Severn]

TUI have decided to base a 787 all week at BRS in Summer 2020, up from 5x days a week in summer 2019. Some have questioned why they are basing one there, especially when it is planned to operate so many short-haul flights.

I wasn't sure as to how TUI utilise their 787 fleet, and how many short-haul flights TUI operate on their 787s in comparison to long-haul. It turns out over a ¼ of the 787 fleet operate short-haul flights each week in the summer months.
Below is a summary of how TUI uses their 787s across it's network in August 2019 (before the MAX crisis hit)...

TUI has a fleet of 12x 787s (8x 787-8s and 4x 787-9s) in 2019.
11x aircraft are needed for the weekly schedule in August 2019, with 1x spare.
5x are required at LGW​
3x are required at MAN​
1x is required at BHX​
2x are required between:​
BRS (5x days a week)​
GLA (2/4x days a week - alternates each week with NCL)​
NCL (2/4x days a week - alternates each week with GLA)​
EMA (2x days a week)​
DSA (1x day a week)​
​
The only airports that the 787 operate shorthaul flights are LGW, MAN and BRS.
Out of the 5x aircraft required at LGW, most days require 3x to operate the long-haul schedule and 2x to operate the short-haul schedule. However a Tuesday sees 1x aircraft operate long-haul and 4x operate short-haul.
Out of the 3x aircraft required at MAN, most days require 2x to operate the long-haul schedule and 1x to operate the short-haul schedule. However a Monday sees 1x aircraft operate long-haul and 2x operate short-haul.
The BHX aircraft only operates long-haul flights, operating every day.
The BRS aircraft operates 2x days long-haul and 3x days short-haul.

TUI clearly is happy to use their 787s on short-haul flights more than people might think, with a ¼ or more of their 787 fleet operating short-haul flights each week from LGW, MAN and BRS throughout summer 2019.

When it comes to numbers; TUI can operate 2x short-haul flights each day instead of 1x long-haul flight. I don't know the exact figures, but I'm sure a 787 full of long-haul punters doesn't make double the income for TUI than a 787 full of short-haul punters, which it can operate twice a day?

Clearly the bean counters see a good reason to use the 787s on so many short-haul flights!

[MerchantVenturer]

I can’t think they’d need the premium seats at BRS.

Bristol and its hinterland is one of the wealthiest and economically vibrant city regions in the country with plenty of well-off people, often older and retired, with the means, desire and time to travel for leisure. This was one of the reasons why GoFly chose BRS as their second base - vide Barbara Cassani in her book - and easyJet has seen continual growth there since buying Go.

BRS's outperformance is by coincidence being discussed in the Bristol Airport thread today.

In summer 2019 a TUI B787 will operate these routes from BRS.

Tue CUN
Wed DLM
Thur DBV/LCA
Fri SFB
Sat CUN

So summer 2020 will not be the first year that a B787 will operate short-haul routes from the airport. It might be partly down to fewer available seats on the narrow-bodied aircraft given that the airport's two based B757s are being withdrawn leaving it with four B738s instead of two B757s and two B738s as has been the case in recent summers.

[LiamNCL]

New Route

Newcastle - Agadir 1x Weekly Summer 20

[mariofly12]

The 737s do have extra legroom seats i believe as they are offered on CWL flights which is all 737.
It is not stated during booking on all flights,so i assumed where it's not a 737 is operated,otherwise what is the difference where it s stated and where it isnt?

[ROC10]

It is not stated during booking on all flights,so i assumed where it's not a 737 is operated,otherwise what is the difference where it s stated and where it isnt?

Perhaps it’s not shown when the extra legroom seats sell out? In my experience they sell quickly.

[Cloud1]

Perhaps it’s not shown when the extra legroom seats sell out? In my experience they sell quickly.

I believe CWL is getting a sub chartered B737 for some of the summer which maybe why extra legroom isn’t showing

[mariofly12]

The flights i was looking were out of LGW,MAN though..

[ROC10]

The flights i was looking were out of LGW,MAN though..

As I said, I’m pretty sure the reason these won’t be showing is that the extra legroom seats have already sold (there aren’t many on 738 flights). Or it could also be a possibility that these flights may be on leased aircraft (I don’t believe we yet know what their plans are regarding additional summer leases are for MAX cover).

[PeterMelia]

Jethro's is saying that TUI is leasing 3xA321 from Olympus Airways. That will be based at Manchester from End Apr 2019 - Mid July 2019.

[azz767]

As I said, I’m pretty sure the reason these won’t be showing is that the extra legroom seats have already sold (there aren’t many on 738 flights). Or it could also be a possibility that these flights may be on leased aircraft (I don’t believe we yet know what their plans are regarding additional summer leases are for MAX cover).




Per jethros as of only a few minutes ago, 3 A321's from Greek Airline Olympus will be leased in from the end of this month until mid July (a sign of the MAX return date?). 2 to be based at BHX and the remaining one at MAN. Whether this is it for leasing in or more need to be sourced I don't know but its the first news of full time leasing for the summer rather than just sporadic leasing for one or two flights. This could explain the MAN extra legroom question and makes me think maybe more a/c will be coming in for other bases which could answer LGW.

On the Olympus frames, 2 are former MON a/c ex G-MARA and ex G-OJEG

[sixchannel]

Per jethros as of only a few minutes ago, 3 A321's from Greek Airline Olympus - - -

On the Olympus frames, 2 are former MON a/c ex G-MARA and ex G-OJEG

I love Irony. Wonder if they still sport the 50/50 Monarch/Olympus livery.

[azz767]

I love Irony. Wonder if they still sport the 50/50 Monarch/Olympus livery.

I think they still do, recent photos of both suggest so. Meaning there will be two hybrid MON schemes flying from BHX and MAN with the TCX ones as well

[shamrock7seal]

When does TUI release their Summer 2020 full-flying programme officially?

[Vokes55]

About 6 months ago.

[Dropoffcharge]

When does TUI release their Summer 2020 full-flying programme officially?

Today supposedly, although have been dribs and drabs released over the past few months.

[Trinity 09L]

According to flt mapper it should be a TUI boeing 737-8 although the flight on the 1st april was a 757.
Our flight was delayed a couple of hours as the incoming had a lightning strike and they shipped a 787 from MAN 👍🏻

[sparkie320]

See the first of the 5 to be UK based for Summer 2019 is on it's way
C-GNCH routing to Norwich via Aberdeen
does anyone know who carrying out the maintenance on these whilst over here
was Monarch engineering last couple of seasons


Mark

[ROC10]

See the first of the 5 to be UK based for Summer 2019 is on it's way
C-GNCH routing to Norwich via Aberdeen
does anyone know who carrying out the maintenance on these whilst over here
was Monarch engineering last couple of seasons


Mark

C-GLRN is already in ABZ, arrived yesterday evening. Today it has done what looks to be a test/training flight over the North Sea. The first summer flight is tomorrow to RHO.

[Mooncrest]

Last summer, Monarch Engineering looked after the Sunwing 737 at Leeds Bradford Airport. Both are now gone from LBA but another Line Engineering company, Luftavia, has set up here to look after the SmartLynx Airbus for the next few weeks. Perhaps Luftavia will be doing something similar for Sunwing at Norwich, Aberdeen etc. Pure speculation, obviously.

[NickBarnes]

NWI is sorted by KLM engineering I believe

[sparkie320]

cheers for the input
reason why asked who looking after them is it would mean all 5 swapping around during the season to enable each aircraft to pass through Maintenance at what ever airport or company dealing with them, which is good for those needing each one.
As i said they used Leeds as a mini base and all the spares that was brought over were kept there

cheers guys

Mark

[Stanstedeye]

Titan 757 G ZAPX was used from STN today as its second aircraft.

[2Para]

C-FFPH is in dublin currently.

[ROC10]

G-ZAPX was used from STN today although I believe there was only one TOM flight from there today so no other TOM aircraft operating. G-TAWM/N are now based at STN though for tomorrow. C-GFEH has flown YUL-GLA. According to Jethros it's due to be DUB-based so not sure why it's at GLA. Perhaps it'll position over soon. That just leaves C-FYJD (BFS) to come over, although the BFS base usually opens later in the season. This year, all SWG aircraft seem to be fairly young (5yrs or less) and so presumably all have Sky Interior.

G-FDZB and G-FDZG (currently both under Canadian reg) are now the only TOM 738s still on winter lease. G-TAWY remains in the Nordics as SE-RFX.

[awwdabaaby]

Its possible that the Sunwing that is in Glasgow is to be based there as there were supposed to be 2 Max8s there as of yesterday

[oldbalboy]

SWG only covering for first 2 weeks then a TUI 757 takes over

[ROC10]

I'm sure there's a reason but some bizarre routing today.

G-FDZY flew GLA-DBV-GLA (normal)
G-TAWH flew EMA-DBV-GLA-EMA
Anyone know why this might be? It has resulted in substantial delays at EMA, combined with the fact that EMA-AGP this morning left over six hours late.

G-TAWG also flew CWL-DLM-LGW and now appears to be working from there, leaving CWL an aircraft short, with the 13:35 CWL-ZTH still not having left.

It doesn't look like TOM has enough aircraft for its current schedule. Obviously we knew the lack of MAXs would be an issue but they are leasing to support this. Also, this is by no means the height of summer.

[ROC10]

SWG only covering for first 2 weeks then a TUI 757 takes over

Where will this come from? There have been rumours of lease extensions but it would appear that all 757s due to be withdrawn before summer have been already and no more were due to be.

G-OOBG is still in DGX and G-CPEV at LTN but they've been idle for a while now - surely they'd be back in service by now if the leases were being extended?

Also the 767s are still in Taipei.

[chaps1954]

SE-RFR is in Manchester as it has just arrived from DBV and SE-RNC is at St Athan but due in MAN today

[ROC10]

SE-RFR is in Manchester as it has just arrived from DBV and SE-RNC is at St Athan but due in MAN today

The UK 767s (G-OBYG and G-OBYH) are in Taipei.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Just because leases may or may not have been extended, does not mean they would be back in service.
Heavy maintenance checks would most likely have been arranged to coincide with the end of leases.
These checks would most likely still be due and would require performing.
Not so easy to rearrange maintenance inputs at short notice, especially now that MAEL is not around to pick up the slack.

[McBruce]

The two DBV-GLA flights where cruise pax pick ups.

[azz767]

A further two summer leases for TUI per Jethros.

B738 F-GZTZ from ASL France (based CWL)
B738 OY-JZK from Jettime (based BHX)

BHX therefore having 2 lease Olympus A321's and a leased in 738 as well

[chaps1954]

Thought BHX getting 1 Olympus as 1 is at Manchester

[azz767]

Thought BHX getting 1 Olympus as 1 is at Manchester

I have no clue, I'm going from Jethros which says 2 at BHX and 1 at MAN but you may well be right.

[oldbalboy]

its 2 x Olympus @ Bhx 1x Man , ASL CWL, Titan 1 line LGW , 1line STN until mid July at moment.

[Matt995]

its 2 x Olympus @ Bhx 1x Man , ASL CWL, Titan 1 line LGW , 1line STN until mid July at moment.

Only problem at the moment is Olympus only have 2 A321s flying, their 3rd aircraft SX-ABQ hasn't flown since the 14th March, appears to be park at Antalya, unless its in for a service?

As its very early in the summer season, appears TUI are ad-hoc leasing aircraft and moving them around their bases at present, need to give it a few weeks for the schedules to settle down!

[ROC10]

Well things have already gone wrong with the GLA Sunwing 738, heavily delayed going out to RHO last night and now stuck there, meaning G-FDZS had to be positioned up from MAN. Not a good start.

[rog747]

Well things have already gone wrong with the GLA Sunwing 738, heavily delayed going out to RHO last night and now stuck there, meaning G-FDZS had to be positioned up from MAN. Not a good start.

RHO has been affected by bad weather and many a/c have held, or diverted to ATH etc today (high winds)

[sdh2903]

heavily delayed going out to RHO last night

It departed to RHO on schedule?

[Alsacienne]

Anyone able to tell me what aircraft is being used on 2 June STN-EFL/EFL-STN? Marked at TOM5754 and 5755 respectively. And if it isn't a 'Tui' 'plane, whose onboard catering will be offered? Many thanks!

[pamann]

Anyone able to tell me what aircraft is being used on 2 June STN-EFL/EFL-STN? Marked at TOM5754 and 5755 respectively. And if it isn't a 'Tui' 'plane, whose onboard catering will be offered? Many thanks!

Too early still to say with the Max issues Tui are experiencing. But if it’s not a Tui 737 it’ll be a Titan aircraft.
Not sure about the onboard offering however.

[ROC10]

It departed to RHO on schedule?

According to FR24 it was three hours late. Scheduled 15:10, departed 18:10. It is still in RHO now.

[sdh2903]

According to FR24 it was three hours late. Scheduled 15:10, departed 18:10. It is still in RHO now.

Don't always believe FR. It was scheduled to depart at 1755 and ferry back empty.

[Alsacienne]

Thanks! OK, time to buy a meal deal at Stansted then!

[oldbalboy]

Customers not travelling on Tui a/c are all being contacted well in advance of flights in writing to be told who they are flying with & what catering will be available, Titan are operating one of the 2 lines at STN & I believe its the normal Tui range with the exception of no hot food.

[Gurnard]

F-GZTZ & OY-JZK
Both of these aircraft noted today doing non-TUI work. Are they only flying for TUI at weekends at the moment?

[chaps1954]

OY-JZK is operating for SAS out of Manchester today

Ian

[caaardiff]

F-GZTZ & OY-JZK
Both of these aircraft noted today doing non-TUI work. Are they only flying for TUI at weekends at the moment?

Looks like to be a requirement at CWL for 2 aircraft today, but tomorrow there's 3 TUI departures first thing and 3 in the afternoon, so will probably be back by then. It's still early in the month so some days are probably quieter than others before the full program kicks in.

[Gurnard]

As I thought, caaardiff. Thanks - also to chaps1954. I too had noted OY-JZK operating for SAS.

[ROC10]

Looks like to be a requirement at CWL for 2 aircraft today, but tomorrow there's 3 TUI departures first thing and 3 in the afternoon, so will probably be back by then. It's still early in the month so some days are probably quieter than others before the full program kicks in.

There were three departures from CWL this morning but only two this afternoon. Two flights were operated by CWL-based TAWS and TAWX. TAWL positioned down from EDI to operate the third as F-GZTZ operated for TUI to ZTH yesterday afternoon then didn’t return to CWL. Rather it switched operator back to ASL France and is working from CDG.

According to the TUI website, a CWL 738 is due to operate CWL-PMI-EDI this afternoon so presumably the ASL will be back or TOM will provide an alternative from their own fleet or another leased unit.

[ROC10]

Is LTN down to one based aircraft this year? I realise it's still early summer but it only appears to have one 757 based with 738s only occasionally operating flights (once or twice since summer season began).

[Gurnard]

There were three departures from CWL this morning but only two this afternoon. Two flights were operated by CWL-based TAWS and TAWX. TAWL positioned down from EDI to operate the third as F-GZTZ operated for TUI to ZTH yesterday afternoon then didn’t return to CWL. Rather it switched operator back to ASL France and is working from CDG.

According to the TUI website, a CWL 738 is due to operate CWL-PMI-EDI this afternoon so presumably the ASL will be back or TOM will provide an alternative from their own fleet or another leased unit.
F-GZTZ is back at CWL, flying this morning to Reus.

[shamrock7seal]

What is the TUI fleet utilisation? It seems really low. I don't know how they can make money like this - yet they do. Meaning the poor customers are being ripped off.

[PDXCWL45]

What is the TUI fleet utilisation? It seems really low. I don't know how they can make money like this - yet they do. Meaning the poor customers are being ripped off.
At Cardiff each aircraft generally averages 2 departures a day sometimes 3 if they operate shorter routes like Reus and PMI.

[caaardiff]

What is the TUI fleet utilisation? It seems really low. I don't know how they can make money like this - yet they do. Meaning the poor customers are being ripped off.

TUI, TCX and to a point Jet2 are probably similar in their fleet utilisation as they are holiday Airlines flying to Spain, Greece, etc etc which are generally a minimum of 2 hour flights. Don't forget that it's TUI Holidays that makes the money and charters the aircraft from TUI Airways. Very few seats TUI and TCX sell are flight only customers.
You'll generally see 2 return flight per day, for example a 2 hour return flight to spain in the morning then a 3-5 hour return flight in the afternoon. On some days you may get 3 return flights to spain out of the aircraft. It all depends what TUI holidays want.
It's also still start of the season when certain destinations (Greece) haven't ramped up for the summer just yet. Usually by mid/end of May the program is in full swing.
So no, no-one is being ripped off and the fleet utilisation is generally seen around the network, with higher demand airports (LGW/MAN/BHX) probably starting their full program earlier.

[azz767]

Two more summer leases per Jethros and again both to be based at BHX

EC-MUB 738 from Alba Star
G-POWH 757 from Titan

Starting to see the full effects of the max issues now with (excluding standard sunwing leases) no less than 8 leases a/c.

2 Olympus A321
2 Norwegian International 738’s at LGW
1 french 738 at CWL mentioned above
1 Jet Time 738
And the two a/c mentioned in this post.

can you see anymore coming in? How many maxes were there supposed to be in service peak summer time?

I also wonder why BHX has taken the brunt of the hit on leased in aircraft

[sewushr]

I'm not sure the Jethros info is correct re the Birmingham leases.

The Jet Time B738 was only at BHX for 2 days. I suspect it, and the Alba Star which is at BHX now, were only drafted in on short-term leases due to the late start of the Olympus A321 leases (neither of the OLY A321s has flown for TUI yet).

So my guess is there aren't really that many aircraft on full summer season leases.

But standing by to be proved wrong! ;-)

[pabely]

Line Maintenance might be an issue as well, Brum has facilities if anything goes tech, usual TUI engineers will only know Boeing maybe?

[Matt995]

can you see anymore coming in? How many maxes were there supposed to be in service peak summer time?

I also wonder why BHX has taken the brunt of the hit on leased in aircraft






TUI should have had 9 Maxs in service for the end of May, so thats 9 aircraft they have had to find. Possibly 2 of the 757s whos leased have expired, maybe be kept longer, possibly both having maintenance at present, an extra Sunwings 738 has been leased, 1 ASL 738, 3 Olympus A321s, and maybe the Titan 757s?

BHX is a 9 aircraft base for summer, plan was 1 788, 3 757s and 5 737s, 2 ot the 737s has been pinched to replace the Maxs at the other bases, so the new plan as to replace these with 2 Olympus A321s, one might start service on the 12th May, the 2nd would be needed from the 17th, the Alba Star/Jettime/Titan aircraft are therefore being sub chartered at present to replace the Olympus A321s! Complicated! But things might yet change........

[737James]

I am due to be flying out of BHX in July with Tui on a 738 as they are still selling the Extra Space seats e.g The ones that anyone can sit in ,am I to presume that my flights will be on Tui aircraft ?

I have also had a schedule change on the inbound flight back from PFO which is on a Sunday night which is a little strange as they have made it earlier and now right in the middle of the Sunday night peak where the airport struggles to cope with pax and ground services seemed more sense to arrive and depart two hours later

[Sharklet_321]

Anyone know if TUI are loading more inventory for BOH in summer 2020? So many gaps and it looks like two based aircraft for 3 days in the week.

[Matt995]

Matt995 - you mentioned TUI leasing an ACL 738. Who are ACL ?

sorry should have been ASL of France, glad someone is paying attention!! :ok:

[matjr79]

Flying TOM2658/22Jun MAN-RHO.

Seat selected last week online and saw that i'm flying on a B763, happy with that!

Row 1-47 was available so we're on a Y328 version which must be either SE-RNC or G-OBYH? Have either got seat back TV?

Matjr79

[ROC10]

Flying TOM2658/22Jun MAN-RHO.

Seat selected last week online and saw that i'm flying on a B763, happy with that!

Row 1-47 was available so we're on a Y328 version which must be either SE-RNC or G-OBYH? Have either got seat back TV?

Matjr79

I'd imagine it’ll either be OBYG or OBYH surely? I believe these do have seat-back screens but not sure. If you’re lucky you could end up on a 787. FR24 has that flight number as a 788 next Saturday but of course TUI’s website will be more accurate.

[MattGarner]

Was supposed to fly on 767 to Corfu from Manchester but has apparently gone tech in Dubai. Anyone know what plane it should have been in terms of reg?

Currently on the way to Cardiff to fly from there. Other groups of people have gone to East Midlands as well.

[sixchannel]

Was supposed to fly on 767 to Corfu from Manchester but has apparently gone tech in Dubai. Anyone know what plane it should have been in terms of reg?

Currently on the way to Cardiff to fly from there. Other groups of people have gone to East Midlands as well.
For TUI it never rains but it pours, as my Ma used to say.

[azz767]

Well as far as I’m aware the two UK reg’d 767’s are still out of service in the Far East I don’t know when they’re due back either.

The two swedish 767’s have been doing a lot of flying from MAN over the last couple of weeks so I’d assume it’s one of those

[MattGarner]

Well as far as I’m aware the two UK reg’d 767’s are still out of service in the Far East I don’t know when they’re due back either.

The two swedish 767’s have been doing a lot of flying from MAN over the last couple of weeks so I’d assume it’s one of those


I did check those but they seem to be in Europe? Dubai was being thrown about so not sure how true that is.

Unless they expected the G- 767s back in service at this point.

[matjr79]

Saw a post on on facebook on the 09Apr about the 2 x UK 767s

"Two Boeing 767-300ERs of TUI flew a long way from Stockholm to Taipei and arrived this morning. Both of them will have maintenance assigned to EGAT"

[ROC10]

Was supposed to fly on 767 to Corfu from Manchester but has apparently gone tech in Dubai. Anyone know what plane it should have been in terms of reg?

Currently on the way to Cardiff to fly from there. Other groups of people have gone to East Midlands as well.

It will be G-OBYG as a quick FR24 search shows this was heading back from Taipei and stopped in Dubai.

TUI are using a Privelige Style 763 and Wamos Air A332 from MAN to LPA and TFS today.

[matjr79]

At least the Privelige 763 looks like the old Britannia livery

[shamrock7seal]

What is TUI's utilisation for the 737 fleet? Forget MAX issues...

Seems that in the winter there are whole days that go by where aircraft are not deployed and the summer season is sometimes not as tight as it could be from observation. Surely a company like this should be putting utilisation at the top in terms of priority?

[737James]

I notice that TUI have upped the hand baggage limit on European flights so you can now take 10KG of carry on baggage which is a good thing for customers just hope that they have the space for all the bags if everyone takes their full limit

[Alsacienne]

I too have received this email about increased hand baggage. HOWEVER, when I booked my holiday a couple of weeks' ago, they were already offering 10 kg hand baggage!!

[ROC10]

What is TUI's utilisation for the 737 fleet? Forget MAX issues...

Seems that in the winter there are whole days that go by where aircraft are not deployed and the summer season is sometimes not as tight as it could be from observation. Surely a company like this should be putting utilisation at the top in terms of priority?

You’ve asked this before and received a good answer already.

During the summer most aircraft are highly utilised, often flying two or sometimes three return flights per day. Obviously it is to their advantage to have one or two aircraft at a slightly lower utilisation so that they may be used as backup should anything go wrong (TUI cannot simply cancel flights like most airlines).

Of course, during the winter utilisation is obviously lower as demand is also lower. Several 737s and all 767s are leased elsewhere in the winter months and TUI also use this time to carry out significant maintenance on aircraft. However, upon grounding of the MAXs, TUI often struggled to cope even during the winter months so clearly utilisation is not that low with most aircraft probably flying one return flight per day (usually longer flights to Canaries/Cyprus), some will operate two, some none. For an example of lower utilisation in winter months, look at Jet2.

[WestofEMA]

I notice that TUI have upped the hand baggage limit on European flights so you can now take 10KG of carry on baggage which is a good thing for customers just hope that they have the space for all the bags if everyone takes their full limit
It doesn't just appear to be European flights. We had the email too for our long haul flight to PVR at the end of the month, although I don't think the overall baggage size has increased. It's 55 x 40 x 20 cm.

[Cazza_fly]

It doesn't just appear to be European flights. We had the email too for our long haul flight to PVR at the end of the month, although I don't think the overall baggage size has increased. It's 55 x 40 x 20 cm.

The baggage size hasn't increased and so it shouldn't. The increase to Maximum of 10kgs weight is standard across all TUI Airways operated flights.

With most people still travelling on a TUI holiday onboard these flights and thus receiving a 15-23kgs hold-luggage allowance, hopefully this change won't start encouraging cabin congestion and fighting for overhead luggage space like it does on other airlines. The one positive of the previous 5kgs allowance was that it encouraged people to pack lighter, which often meant a smaller cabin bag that could easily go underneath the seats or quickly popped in the overhead lockers.

[Jet2_GLA]

TUI Airways has acquired 2 Airbus A321s (SX-ACP, and SX-ABY) which are both Ex-Olympus Aircraft, or as most people know them as, Ex-Monarch. They are due to enter service on Friday 17th May 2019 (6 days from now)
This will be covering the continued MAX8 grounding. As you may know, TUI Airways has also acquired additional leased Boeing 737s to cover this grounding.

Stuart

[rog747]

Anyone know how the TUI Euro fleets are fairing with losing their MAX's?? (Holland Belgium Sweden etc)

[ROC10]

TUI Airways has acquired 2 Airbus A321s (SX-ACP, and SX-ABY) which are both Ex-Olympus Aircraft, or as most people know them as, Ex-Monarch. They are due to enter service on Friday 17th May 2019 (6 days from now)
This will be covering the continued MAX8 grounding. As you may know, TUI Airways has also acquired additional leased Boeing 737s to cover this grounding.

Stuart

I don’t think it’s right to say TUI have “acquired” these aircraft or that they are “ex-Olympus”. I’m pretty sure they're very much still Olympus aircraft, TUI are just leasing them for now. SX-ABY has already started flying for TUI today. They are supposedly due another Olympus 321 at BHX at some point also.

[Mooncrest]

One of these Olympus Airbuses is currently parked at Manchester. I didn't see it move yesterday or this morning. TUI have also been using a Privilege Style 767 and a French XL A330.

[garry8g]

Does anyone know if the Sunwing B737's have the extra legroom seats the same as the TUI B737's ? (i.e. rows 3, 4 & 5 - seats D, E & F)

[VickersVicount]

Assuming they dont reconfigure for UK Summer ops and are interchangeable here is Sunwing 738 seat map showing their equivalent extra legroom seats
Sunwing 738 Seat Map (https://www.sunwing.ca/pages/en/seat-map)

[OltonPete]

TUI Airways has acquired 2 Airbus A321s (SX-ACP, and SX-ABY) which are both Ex-Olympus Aircraft, or as most people know them as, Ex-Monarch. They are due to enter service on Friday 17th May 2019 (6 days from now)
This will be covering the continued MAX8 grounding. As you may know, TUI Airways has also acquired additional leased Boeing 737s to cover this grounding.

Stuart

Confirmed 100% SX-ABY entered service today BHX-VRN-BHX-PFO and currently on its way back.

I have read several reasons for the delay in entering service such as "paperwork" or "reconfiguring the seats".

Titan 757 also operating at BHX the last two days as mentioned on the BHX thread.

Pete

[garry8g]

Assuming they dont reconfigure for UK Summer ops and are interchangeable here is Sunwing 738 seat map showing their equivalent extra legroom seats
Sunwing 738 Seat Map (https://www.sunwing.ca/pages/en/seat-map)

Thanks for that Info. Flying from Glasgow to Rhodes on 25th May, and noticed there is a Sunwing aircraft along with a TUI one, so don't know which one will be doing the Rhodes rotation.

[ROC10]

Thanks for that Info. Flying from Glasgow to Rhodes on 25th May, and noticed there is a Sunwing aircraft along with a TUI one, so don't know which one will be doing the Rhodes rotation.

Sunwing did it last week and TOM this week so doesn’t look like they’re flying specific routes, although that may change.

On another note (and I know we shouldn’t always believe FR24 but there must be a reason that this has been changed), from tomorrow onwards half of the GLA departures are showing as 75W whilst the other half show as 73H/7M8. There have been talks of a 757 returning to GLA at some point although this looks unlikely unless the idle 757s are returned to service (or they lease another Titan perhaps).

[Alsacienne]

Further to my post of 5 May, Flightradar24 tells me that today's BY5754 is being operated by a Titan Airways 320. Will this aircraft/wetlease company be operating the same flight each week? Tui has not been in touch with me yet ...

[Yeehaw22]

Sunwing did it last week and TOM this week so doesn’t look like they’re flying specific routes, although that may change.

On another note (and I know we shouldn’t always believe FR24 but there must be a reason that this has been changed), from tomorrow onwards half of the GLA departures are showing as 75W whilst the other half show as 73H/7M8. There have been talks of a 757 returning to GLA at some point although this looks unlikely unless the idle 757s are returned to service (or they lease another Titan perhaps).

Gla will be 1 x 757 and 1 x 738 In the next few days for the foreseeable. Sunwing 738 is off to bfs/dub.

[azz767]

There looks to be at the moment 5x longer term leases with any others on an ad hoc basis
the Titan A320 at STN
2x Norwegian 738 at LGW (a/c) rotate and alternate with the Norwegian operation afaik
2x Olympus A321 at MAN & BHX

[CabinCrewe]

Wonder if, when at short notice the aircraft changes to a larger aircraft eg 738 to 757 they then release all the additional seats for FO and package deals? Financially of course makes sense but logistically wonder how easy it is to do

[ROC10]

There looks to be at the moment 5x longer term leases with any others on an ad hoc basis
the Titan A320 at STN
2x Norwegian 738 at LGW (a/c) rotate and alternate with the Norwegian operation afaik
2x Olympus A321 at MAN & BHX


There's also Titan A320 at LGW, Titan 757 at BHX, ASL 738 at CWL. I believe that’s all of the regulars for now. There have been a few ad hoc wide-bodies from MAN over the last couple of days (Privilege Style 767, Wamos and XL A330s) with some horrible delays (one was approx 12 hours). G-OBYG is now back in service with TOM though and G-TUID is out of LTN (possibly in s/h config?) so hopefully there will be no more need for these ad hoc charters. G-TUII however seems to be operating Nordic s/h flights at the moment so this won't be helping. OBYH appears to still be in Taipei for now also.

[azz767]

There's also Titan A320 at LGW, Titan 757 at BHX, ASL 738 at CWL. I believe that’s all of the regulars for now. There have been a few ad hoc wide-bodies from MAN over the last couple of days (Privilege Style 767, Wamos and XL A330s) with some horrible delays (one was approx 12 hours). G-OBYG is now back in service with TOM though and G-TUID is out of LTN (possibly in s/h config?) so hopefully there will be no more need for these ad hoc charters. G-TUII however seems to be operating Nordic s/h flights at the moment so this won't be helping. OBYH appears to still be in Taipei for now also.





would the UK Dreamliner operating in the nordics have anything to do with se-rfr being out of service for a week. Seems to be at DGX from 4th may after operating for TUI UK for a couple of weeks

[rog747]

Wonder if, when at short notice the aircraft changes to a larger aircraft eg 738 to 757 they then release all the additional seats for FO and package deals? Financially of course makes sense but logistically wonder how easy it is to do

A logistic nightmare during the season like this, but if TUI have a set up to match empty rooms and seats even at shot notice then they may sell?

[737James]

I presume that the Olympus A321s at BHX & MAN are crewed both flight deck and cabin crew by Greek staff ? I know there was some worries that if they pick up any tech delays that they will struggle to get the schedule back on track as unable to get crew off standby easily

[pabely]

I presume that the Olympus A321s at BHX & MAN are crewed both flight deck and cabin crew by Greek staff ? I know there was some worries that if they pick up any tech delays that they will struggle to get the schedule back on track as unable to get crew off standby easily
TUI crews will only be Boeing so an A321 will be alien to them.

[rog747]

ACMI leases for TUI from (mostly ACMI specialist airlines) such as Olympus Wamos Hi-fly Titan Evelop ASL Jet-time Privilege Style & Euroatlantic etc etc etc will be ''aircraft crew maintenance and insurance''
ACMI, aka as a Wet lease. A Dry lease means that the aircraft is being provided without any flight crew - such as the Sunwing 737 leases to TUI.
A Damp Lease is defined as a Wet-leased aircraft that includes a cockpit crew but not a cabin crew.

So yes all the FD and CC are from the ACMI airline - occasionally the airline they are leasing to (TUI in this case) may put on board one or two of their own CC members as a pax courtesy, maybe for language issues.

At BMA when we ACMI leased and flew for EL AL with all our own CC.
But at Britannia we leased to and flew for Air France when their pilots were on strike, and an AF CC member or two came on the flights to speak French.

[Mooncrest]

rog747, the Sunwing contract is damp lease. They provide the pilots as well but the cabin crew are TUI's own. At least that's what we had at LBA last summer.

[Jet2_GLA]

TUI crews will only be Boeing so an A321 will be alien to them.

Actually not exactly. The Airbus A321 (Ex-Monarchs) flying on Lease from Olympus Airways. They are Olympus Pilots but there is TUI and Sunwing Cabin crew. Told it was mostly TUI cabin crew with one Olympus Cabin Crew for safety apparently.

[irishlad06]

It is likely Olympus cabin crew as the TUI crew are not trained on the aircraft nor Olympus operating procedures however TUI will have representatives onboard. Other airlines normally put their crew on to do the on board service so that nothing is different for the passengers.

[VickersVicount]

Actually not exactly. The Airbus A321 (Ex-Monarchs) flying on Lease from Olympus Airways. They are Olympus Pilots but there is TUI and Sunwing Cabin crew. Told it was mostly TUI cabin crew with one Olympus Cabin Crew for safety apparently.
Sounds like a non harmonious shambles...
Reminds me of the TransAer A320 and CanAfrica DC8 shenanigans.

[rog747]

rog747, the Sunwing contract is damp lease. They provide the pilots as well but the cabin crew are TUI's own. At least that's what we had at LBA last summer.

Ah I did wonder once I had posted lol - same as smart-lynx then I gather with TCX and the A321's - thanks R

[rog747]

Sounds like a non harmonious shambles...
Reminds me of the TransAer A320 and CanAfrica DC8 shenanigans.

Plus add a sprinkle of Air Scandic, Air Oops and the rest lol

[rog747]

Actually not exactly. The Airbus A321 (Ex-Monarchs) flying on Lease from Olympus Airways. They are Olympus Pilots but there is TUI and Sunwing Cabin crew. Told it was mostly TUI cabin crew with one Olympus Cabin Crew for safety apparently.


Sounds then like a right ol' hash-up of wet, dry, and damp leases LOL

What is sad to note that down at Norwegian due both the 787 and 737MAX groundings that FD and CC are being offered varied part-time or no-pay contracts (go on unpaid leave but you get your job back)
These boys and girls have bills to pay :(
They may get offered VR too.

[clipstone1]

Interestingly, whilost Norwegian are operating several aircraft for TUI Airways this summer (to cover the MAX) they themselves are chartering other airlines in to cover their flying, due to a) the MAX being grounded and them leasing out to TUI....must be getting their cover cheaper than the amount they can charge TUI

[pamann]

Interestingly, whilost Norwegian are operating several aircraft for TUI Airways this summer (to cover the MAX) they themselves are chartering other airlines in to cover their flying, due to a) the MAX being grounded and them leasing out to TUI....must be getting their cover cheaper than the amount they can charge TUI

Norwegian have been operating charter flights on behalf of Tui for a few years now out of Gatwick. These are dedicated 100% Tui charter flights. I believe it’s two aircraft this summer. Possibly three? This was all planned well in advance of the MAX issues and has absolutely nothing to do with Tui being aircraft short because of the grounding of the MAX. It’s simply to supply additional capacity for Tui holidays during the summer season out of Gatwick.

[Matt995]

I presume that the Olympus A321s at BHX & MAN are crewed both flight deck and cabin crew by Greek staff ? I know there was some worries that if they pick up any tech delays that they will struggle to get the schedule back on track as unable to get crew off standby easily

Interestingly I heard the Olympus A321 flight crew on approach to Birmingham yesterday operating TOM7751 from Malaga, the pilot on the RT was most definitely British, so could Olympus be using ex Monarch crew? The afternoon departure to Zakynthos was most certainly a Greek pilot on the RT!

[Twiglet1]

Plus add a sprinkle of Air Scandic, Air Oops and the rest lol
And Omega Air 707's

[ROC10]

Looks like TUI are flying their MAN departures via LPL to fuel up before heading to the destinations. Heavily delayed leaving MAN and then obviously further delays after going via LPL but better than cancelling like the vast majority of MAN departures have been.

[rog747]

Looks like TUI are flying their MAN departures via LPL to fuel up before heading to the destinations. Heavily delayed leaving MAN and then obviously further delays after going via LPL but better than cancelling like the vast majority of MAN departures have been.

TUI flights are package holiday charter flights thus will rarely be cancelled, unlike FR, EZY, BA etc - TUI will get their holidaymakers to/from destination albeit delayed/diverted.

[ROC10]

Haven’t really seen anyone mention this but looks like the LTN base has had major cutbacks this summer. I did wonder as LTN normally has 2 or 3 based aircraft but has only had one based since the beginning of the season. I know that FR24 is not accurate but it shows 3-4 scheduled departures per day, when in reality there are usually only one or two. The TUI website obviously only shows those flights which remain but it really highlights the scale of reductions. However, looking ahead, there is a very brief period from the end of July until the end of August (around 5 weeks) where the timetable shows something more similar to FR24 (thus presumably what was originally planned for the entire season).

Can anyone elaborate on this? Were the cuts made a while ago or was this all rather short notice? I am aware of the disruption the MAX issues have caused, however, there have been no leased aircraft at LTN to help out so is this all down to poor bookings?

[Matt995]

Haven’t really seen anyone mention this but looks like the LTN base has had major cutbacks this summer. I did wonder as LTN normally has 2 or 3 based aircraft but has only had one based since the beginning of the season. I know that FR24 is not accurate but it shows 3-4 scheduled departures per day, when in reality there are usually only one or two. The TUI website obviously only shows those flights which remain but it really highlights the scale of reductions. However, looking ahead, there is a very brief period from the end of July until the end of August (around 5 weeks) where the timetable shows something more similar to FR24 (thus presumably what was originally planned for the entire season).

Can anyone elaborate on this? Were the cuts made a while ago or was this all rather short notice? I am aware of the disruption the MAX issues have caused, however, there have been no leased aircraft at LTN to help out so is this all down to poor bookings?

Yes Luton has only 1 aircraft based a 757, TUI dropped the planned 2nd aircraft, long before the Max issues, however they are planning to base a 2nd aircraft just for the peak high season July/August. FR24 doesnt show the most updated TUI flight details, so many are showing wrong times, aircraft or flights that have been removed etc...

[harer92]

Anyone got a S19 update of based aircraft at each airport

[mattjwood]

Booked onto the BHX - DLM flight on 3rd June. Appears to be an A321 Configuration on the seat map - the return flight on the 10th June appears to be a 757? I assume the 757 will be a TUI aircraft and the A321 will be the Olympus?

[rog747]

Anyone got a S19 update of based aircraft at each airport

Just read today that for S19 at BRS has based from today -
3 x 737-800
1 x 757
1 x 787-8 (5 days a week)

[ROC10]

I have compiled a list (see below), based mainly on looking at FR24 of bases. Whilst I believe most of these to be correct (especially s/h at regional bases), LGW/MAN/BHX can be very changeable. Also, don’t quote me on 787s or leased aircraft as again, these can change lots. I’d welcome anyone with better knowledge to make any corrections.

[ROC10]

*B788 visits to operate l/h flights but not based

London Gatwick (LGW)
5 x Boeing 737-800
2 x Boeing 757-200
3 x Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner
2 x Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner
2 x Norwegian B738
1 x Titan A320

Manchester (MAN)
3 x Boeing 737-800
3 x Boeing 757-200
2 x Boeing 767-300ER
3 x Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner
2 x Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner
1 x Olympus A321
1 x AlbaStar B738

Birmingham (BHX)
4 x Boeing 737-800
2 x Boeing 757-200
1 x Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner
1 x Olympus A321

Bristol (BRS)
3 x Boeing 737-800
1 x Boeing 757-200
1 x Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner (5 days)

Newcastle (NCL)*
3 x Boeing 737-800

East Midlands (EMA)*
3 x Boeing 737-800

Doncaster-Sheffield (DSA)*
3 x Boeing 737-800

Cardiff (CWL)
2 x Boeing 737-800
1 x ASL B738

Glasgow (GLA)*
1 x Boeing 737-800
1 x Boeing 757-200

London Stansted (STN)
1 x Boeing 737-800
1 x Titan A320

London Luton (LTN)
1 x Boeing 757-200

Edinburgh (EDI)*
1 x Boeing 737-800

Bournemouth (BOH)
1 x Boeing 737-800

Exeter (EXT)
1 x Boeing 737-800

Aberdeen (ABZ)
1 x Sunwing 737-800

Norwich (NWI)
1 x Sunwing 737-800

Belfast (BFS)
1 x Sunwing 737-800

Dublin (DUB)
2 x Sunwing 737-800

[rog747]

Norwegian are operating flights for TUI Holidays from LGW, EXT and BOH -- these are not wet leases, just charter flight series all summer

Add in Volotea from SOU for PMI and IBZ
plus AlbaStar and Freebird from EXT and BOH

[Cloud1]

Norwegian are operating flights for TUI Holidays from LGW, EXT and BOH -- these are not wet leases, just charter flight series all summer

Add in Volotea from SOU for PMI and IBZ
plus AlbaStar and Freebird from EXT and BOH

TUI are actually using Norwegian on an ACMI basis this year with flights operating under the BY flight code as opposed to D8. This is different to previous summers. I think it’s 2 or 3 aircraft under this agreement.

[OltonPete]

*B788 visits to operate l/h flights but not based

London Gatwick (LGW)
5 x Boeing 737-800
2 x Boeing 757-200
3 x Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner
2 x Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner
2 x Norwegian B738
1 x Titan A320

Manchester (MAN)
3 x Boeing 737-800
3 x Boeing 757-200
2 x Boeing 767-300ER
3 x Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner
2 x Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner
1 x Olympus A321

Birmingham (BHX)
4 x Boeing 737-800
2 x Boeing 757-200
1 x Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner
1 x Olympus A321

Bristol (BRS)
3 x Boeing 737-800
1 x Boeing 757-200
1 x Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner (5 days)

Newcastle (NCL)*
3 x Boeing 737-800

East Midlands (EMA)*
3 x Boeing 737-800

Doncaster-Sheffield (DSA)*
3 x Boeing 737-800

Cardiff (CWL)
2 x Boeing 737-800
1 x ASL B738

Glasgow (GLA)*
1 x Boeing 737-800
1 x Boeing 757-200

London Stansted (STN)
1 x Boeing 737-800
1 x Titan A320

London Luton (LTN)
1 x Boeing 757-200

Edinburgh (EDI)*
1 x Boeing 737-800

Bournemouth (BOH)
1 x Boeing 737-800

Exeter (EXT)
1 x Boeing 737-800

Aberdeen (ABZ)
1 x Sunwing 737-800

Norwich (NWI)
1 x Sunwing 737-800

Belfast (BFS)
1 x Sunwing 737-800

Dublin (DUB)
2 x Sunwing 737-800

BHX has been 9 based for a few days and should be all summer.

There has been three TUI 757's based most days until today when one positioned to Bristol. Titan 757 G-POWH is currently based which is operating the P & O Malta which was a TUI 757 last week.

Pete

[PDXCWL45]

Surprising to see Cardiff having more based aircraft than quite a few airports a lot bigger than it.

[VickersVicount]

Surprising to see Cardiff having more based aircraft than quite a few airports a lot bigger than it.
Like those with massive FR and Jet2 presence?

[PDXCWL45]

Like those with massive FR and Jet2 presence?

Yes i realise they do have big presence from the like of FR, Jet2 and EZY but they are still airports quite a few of them which are much bigger, so it was surprising to me to see CWL higher in the list than them.

[fanrailuk]

The same could be said for DSA, no?

Again, a base with no massive lo-co or Jet2 presence.

Surprising to see Cardiff having more based aircraft than quite a few airports a lot bigger than it.

[PDXCWL45]

The same could be said for DSA, no?

Again, a base with no massive lo-co or Jet2 presence.
Yes the same could be said for DSA as well.

[LiamNCL]

The Aberdeen Sunwing 738 operates into NCL 4x a week on W patterns aswell.

[rog747]

thanks for the Norwegian update on ACMI

[ROC10]

I’ve updated the list with the AlbaStar 738 at MAN. The Titan 757s (POWH and ZAPX) are not operating consistently for TOM out of any particular base (both have worked out of MAN and BHX) and are regularly operating non-TOM flights, hence they are not listed.

[OltonPete]

I’ve updated the list with the AlbaStar 738 at MAN. The Titan 757s (POWH and ZAPX) are not operating consistently for TOM out of any particular base (both have worked out of MAN and BHX) and are regularly operating non-TOM flights, hence they are not listed.

BHX is still 9 and I would say: -

3 x TUI B73H
2 x TUI B757
1 x OLY A321
1 x TUI 788
2 x Airline and aircraft varies. This morning was 3 x TUI 757's (One in empty from Luton), 3 x B73H (the 4th went to MAN), 1 x Titan 757 and 1 x OLY A321 and 1 x TUI 788. However I assume the Titan is off to DUS and the Wamos A332 will be operating.

It seems to be fast moving but TUI appear to be coping quite well at BHX.

Pete

[Alsacienne]

So ... any crystal ball predictions on G-POWK from London Stansted. 12 and 19 May rotations to EFL .... likely to be the case on 26 May and 2 June? TUI have not contacted me to say that there would be a difference to the advertised a/c - 737- and when asked on the phone, were unable to say ...

[Matt995]

BHX is still 9 and I would say: -

3 x TUI B73H
2 x TUI B757
1 x OLY A321
1 x TUI 788
2 x Airline and aircraft varies. This morning was 3 x TUI 757's (One in empty from Luton), 3 x B73H (the 4th went to MAN), 1 x Titan 757 and 1 x OLY A321 and 1 x TUI 788. However I assume the Titan is off to DUS and the Wamos A332 will be operating.

It seems to be fast moving but TUI appear to be coping quite well at BHX.

Pete

Still think Pete, that the plan at BHX is to have 3 TUI 757s based all summer. Actually a few delays on the BHX flights today, the 2330 flight to Palma is showing delayed till 0200!

I was led to believe the 2 TUI 757s, G-CPEV and G-OOBH were to have their leases extended for the summer period to cover for the Max's? G-CPEV is still at LTN, and G-OOBH at St Athan, are they both undergoing heavy maintenance? and hence TUI are still short of aircraft? can anyone confirm this?

[ROC10]

Still think Pete, that the plan at BHX is to have 3 TUI 757s based all summer. Actually a few delays on the BHX flights today, the 2330 flight to Palma is showing delayed till 0200!

I was led to believe the 2 TUI 757s, G-CPEV and G-OOBH were to have their leases extended for the summer period to cover for the Max's? G-CPEV is still at LTN, and G-OOBH at St Athan, are they both undergoing heavy maintenance? and hence TUI are still short of aircraft? can anyone confirm this?

Those delays aren’t too bad. 28.5 hour delay on GLA-DLM flight for perspective.

G-OOBH is not in St Athan and will not be returning to TUI. G-OOBG is in St Athan and G-CPEV is in LTN. I am not within TUI so can't confirm anything - maybe someone can? Both of these aircraft have been idle for a while but the fact they haven’t gone anywhere perhaps suggests TUI intend to reinstate them?

EDIT: What a coincidence... G-CPEV operating LTN-MAN now.

[humpy123]

Has anyone any idea why the Sunwing flights out of DUB TO PMI been late for the last three weeks running.The flights are due to take off at 5:40 on a Saturday morning but the flight is nearly three hours late. Any information would be greatly received.

[VickersVicount]

I think I saw a funny hybrid Norwegian TUI 738 livery at ACE?

[rog747]

I think I saw a funny hybrid Norwegian TUI 738 livery at ACE?

Post above says TUI have 2 on ACMI lease for S19

[ROC10]

Has anyone any idea why the Sunwing flights out of DUB TO PMI been late for the last three weeks running.The flights are due to take off at 5:40 on a Saturday morning but the flight is nearly three hours late. Any information would be greatly received.

It may be that TUI have changed the flight time (assuming you’re using FR24 to check this). They seem to have made several changes that haven’t been updated in FR24 this summer. Since it’s DUB, the flight can’t be checked on TUI’s website (you may know the relevant Irish website to check?).

[VickersVicount]

Post above
but no mention of livery being used

[Gurnard]

SUNWING C-GFEH - Two returns in two days.

Two returns to departure airport in two days. Yesterday (24th) flying Dublin-Reus - turned back over Pembroke and returned to Dublin. Today (25th) flying Palma-Dublin - has returned to Palma. Anyone know the reason? Technical or medical?

[skyhawk1]

It may be that TUI have changed the flight time (assuming you’re using FR24 to check this). They seem to have made several changes that haven’t been updated in FR24 this summer. Since it’s DUB, the flight can’t be checked on TUI’s website (you may know the relevant Irish website to check?).

just type TUI.ireland in google and it will bring up Irish flights

[humpy123]

SUNWING C-GFEH - Two returns in two days.

Two returns to departure airport in two days. Yesterday (24th) flying Dublin-Reus - turned back over Pembroke and returned to Dublin. Today (25th) flying Palma-Dublin - has returned to Palma. Anyone know the reason? Technical or medical?

G=GFEH was nearly 3 hours late leaving DUB this morning so maybe technical difficulties come into play.

[Gurnard]

C-GFEH
Appears stuck in Palma. Sunwing C-GNCH positioned NCL-DUB this afternoon to take over from -EH. Today's return to Palma was therefore probably technical. Any news yet of the turn-back to DUB early yesterday morning?

[JonnyH]

I think the issue with the DUB based aircraft has caused issues for the TUI ABZ flights as C-GNCH was due to go back to ABZ last night from PMI after operating NCL-PMI which was subsequently operated by an NCL based aircraft rather than Sunwing. It will be interesting to see how they will sort this over the coming days as the issue with the Max has caused them to have a serious shortage.

[ROC10]

I think the issue with the DUB based aircraft has caused issues for the TUI ABZ flights as C-GNCH was due to go back to ABZ last night from PMI after operating NCL-PMI which was subsequently operated by an NCL based aircraft rather than Sunwing. It will be interesting to see how they will sort this over the coming days as the issue with the Max has caused them to have a serious shortage.


C-GNCH was taken from NCL to DUB (to cover C-GFEH which was stuck in PMI since yesterday morning and is now finally operating PMI-ABZ - not sure if this is a ferry or pax flight as the NCL-PMI last night went back to NCL rather than ABZ). This morning's ABZ-REU will now be delayed by 23 hours and go tomorrow morning instead with this afternoon's ABZ-TFS also significantly delayed.

Sunwing are off to a very poor start this summer and TOM are not in a position to cover it this year.

[ROC10]

On another note G-CPEV turned back to MAN this morning and hasn’t moved since.