TUI Airways

[LiamNCL]

Enter Air and AirExplore already been filling in last few days , Smartlynx and Avion who operated a vast amount of aircraft for TCX will be available for lease this summer too but i cannot see the MAX flying until late summer at the earliest.

[irishlad06]

There is a rumour that they are getting 10-12 Peagus 800’s as they r replacing them with neo’s

[Bearpit]

United have pulled the MAX from their schedules until 4th June now, so they're obviously taking a pessimistic view on when the aircraft will return. There must be a lot of airlines head-scratching over Christmas as to how to cover flights. Looking at other threads, it looks like Ryanair are making deeper cuts already. Interesting to see what TUI have up their sleeves, given the peak holiday booking period is just about to start.

[rog747]

Some good points raised above -
TUI CEO mentioned that if the MAX is not back by the end of APR (We know it will not be) then their financial contingency allows to remove the MAX from their S20 program.

It is extremely hard to try to introduce, or re-introduce a new, or an amended type that will require intense pilot training/SIM time, and the various Crew and Ops manuals to be rewritten) in the midst of a summer Charter flight series as big as TUI's.

I think TUI now have pretty much taken as read that the MAX will be out of the their Summer 2020 flying program - My Tuppence.

[rog747]

United have pulled the MAX from their schedules until 4th June now, so they're obviously taking a pessimistic view on when the aircraft will return. There must be a lot of airlines head-scratching over Christmas as to how to cover flights. Looking at other threads, it looks like Ryanair are making deeper cuts already. Interesting to see what TUI have up their sleeves, given the peak holiday booking period is just about to start.

Yes indeed, and that United Airlines decision concurs that it is likely improbable that TUI could slip the MAX back into the summer program if any approval of the MAX was in mid-summer.

FYI
You mention ''Peak time is just about to start'' - Yes I agree we have a busy Ski Flight season starting but that flying is at weekends only.
Xmas peak is only a couple of weeks really.
During the week popular winter destinations like Canaries, Egypt, Banjul, and Cape Verde see most of the flying. (Longer routes means the aircraft often will only do one rotation a day, compared to 2 or 3 in the Summer)

The aircraft as you know, are not as busy in the winter historically, and many go off for winter leases (quite normal) to other airlines, so the Peak flying period is MAY-SEPT, with JUL/AUG seeing the most usage.
This type of flying program has always seen the difficulty for Holiday airlines making good use year round of their fleets, and try to make money.

[Fly757X]

Yes indeed, and that United Airlines decision concurs that it is likely improbable that TUI could slip the MAX back into the summer program if any approval of the MAX was in mid-summer.

FYI
You mention ''Peak time is just about to start'' - Yes I agree we have a busy Ski Flight season starting but that flying is at weekends only.
Xmas peak is only a couple of weeks really.
During the week popular winter destinations like Canaries, Egypt, Banjul, and Cape Verde see most of the flying. (Longer routes means the aircraft often will only do one rotation a day, compared to 2 or 3 in the Summer)

The aircraft as you know, are not as busy in the winter historically, and many go off for winter leases (quite normal) to other airlines, so the Peak flying period is MAY-SEPT, with JUL/AUG seeing the most usage.
This type of flying program has always seen the difficulty for Holiday airlines making good use year round of their fleets, and try to make money.

I think he was referring to when Holidays are booked, rather than when the schedule is the busiest.

Merry Christmas!

[rog747]

Ah OK - so you mean the peak ''booking'' time. Yes Tour operators want their summer bookings made and deposits paid as early as possible of course.

Back in the early days when the summer holiday brochures were released there would be queues around the block with holidaymakers trying to get the first and best pickings when they went on sale - usually after the New Year. (showing my age now lol)

Happy Xmas too !!!

[paully]

Ah OK - so you mean the peak ''booking'' time. Yes Tour operators want their summer bookings made and deposits paid as early as possible of course.

Back in the early days when the summer holiday brochures were released there would be queues around the block with holidaymakers trying to get the first and best pickings when they went on sale - usually after the New Year. (showing my age now lol)

Happy Xmas too !!!

Yes I remember those days as well...the mad dash to get the `Free Child` places:hmm: Different times but they were fun

[ChilliP]

G-FDZF on its way to Dubai from Cardiff, assume its going to China for EOL checks?
No mention of this on Jethros, but ZG is planned for EOL in March 20.

[DanAir89]

G-FDZF on its way to Dubai from Cardiff, assume its going to China for EOL checks?
No mention of this on Jethros, but ZG is planned for EOL in March 20.
another 2 leaving and no sign of anything else joining!!!

been watching this thread which is very interesting, loads of planned expansion, grounded Max’s, 737/757’s aircraft leaving the fleet etc

10-12 ex Pegasus 737’s were mentioned above - would this solve the cunundrum?

always used to like going on holiday with Thomson/tui as the flights were on G regs, on time and very reliable .hope they don’t go down the Avion Express et al route as TC did which in my view would spoil their quality brand.

[ATNotts]

another 2 leaving and no sign of anything else joining!!!

been watching this thread which is very interesting, loads of planned expansion, grounded Max’s, 737/757’s aircraft leaving the fleet etc

10-12 ex Pegasus 737’s were mentioned above - would this solve the cunundrum?

always used to like going on holiday with Thomson/tui as the flights were on G regs, on time and very reliable .hope they don’t go down the Avion Express et al route as TC did which in my view would spoil their quality brand.

Not sure what the country of registration of the aircraft has to do with anything. And they weren't / aren't always on time and very reliable. Are you possibly overlooking the summer leases on Sunwing equipment in recent years, and going back a little the Irish A320s that Thomson used. The words tinted, rose and glasses come to mind, but not necessarily in that order!

[DanAir89]

Not sure what the country of registration of the aircraft has to do with anything. And they weren't / aren't always on time and very reliable. Are you possibly overlooking the summer leases on Sunwing equipment in recent years, and going back a little the Irish A320s that Thomson used. The words tinted, rose and glasses come to mind, but not necessarily in that order!

personal experience mate! My many flights with them always fine.

just need to read the pilots section to be slightly worried if an Eastern European registered aircraft turns up ( for example google smart wings and an incident this summer).

Sunwings (C registered) and Irish A320’s not G registered so there’s the link!

In summary you have no idea where the additional aircraft are coming from either!

[ROC10]

Yes, G-FDZF has flown to AUH and, according to Planespotters, has been WFU and is now stored. Interesting that it went straight from CWL while G-TAWL ferried in from LGW to replace it. Normally they are withdrawn from the larger bases or go via the likes of DGX, QLA, etc first.

[rog747]

Basically Summer 2019 saw a right old ACMI mish-mash turning up for TUI's flights (and we will see the same for S20) but they got the program covered without too much hoo-hah.

Titan are an established ACMI airline and G- reg'd.
Norwegian are OK, as is Evelop, Air Europa, and Alba Star.

I would be perhaps less than comfy on say Sunwing/Smartwings/avion/freebird/smartlynx/Olympus/ASL/Correndon et al mainly in terms of the reliability of the service and of the comfort, rather than any safety issues.

However, Smartwings have had a huge incident this summer with an engine failure and shutdown on a 737-800NG out of Chania that continued on to home base at Prague.
The aircraft was enroute at FL360 when the #1 engine failed. The crew reported a "maintenance issue" to ATC and requested to descend to FL240. No PAN or emergency call was issued. The crew attempted to restart the engine twice unsuccessfully. The captain decided the nearest suitable aerodrome to be Prague and continued to Prague without informing ATC along the 2:20 hours route after the engine failure until in contact with Prague ATC, when the crew declared a PAN and reported #1 engine had failed. The aircraft landed OK. A failed fuel pump caused the engine to starve, metallic chips were found in the fuel filter. Both parts were shipped for expert examination. An investigation into the occurrence rated a serious incident is continuing.
Previously Sunwing had a major incident taking off out of Belfast.

[caaardiff]

Basically Summer 2019 saw a right old ACMI mish-mash turning up for TUI's flights (and we will see the same for S20) but they got the program covered without too much hoo-hah.

Titan are an established ACMI airline and G- reg'd.
Norwegian are OK, as is Evelop, Air Europa, and Alba Star.

I would be perhaps less than comfy on say Sunwing/Smartwings/avion/freebird/smartlynx/Olympus/ASL/Correndon et al mainly in terms of the reliability of the service and of the comfort, rather than any safety issues.

However, Smartwings have had a huge incident this summer with an engine failure and shutdown on a 737-800NG out of Chania that continued on to home base at Prague.
The aircraft was enroute at FL360 when the #1 engine failed. The crew reported a "maintenance issue" to ATC and requested to descend to FL240. No PAN or emergency call was issued. The crew attempted to restart the engine twice unsuccessfully. The captain decided the nearest suitable aerodrome to be Prague and continued to Prague without informing ATC along the 2:20 hours route after the engine failure until in contact with Prague ATC, when the crew declared a PAN and reported #1 engine had failed. The aircraft landed OK. A failed fuel pump caused the engine to starve, metallic chips were found in the fuel filter. Both parts were shipped for expert examination. An investigation into the occurrence rated a serious incident is continuing.
Previously Sunwing had a major incident taking off out of Belfast.
Sunwing are practically a Canadian version of TUI, they even share aircraft.
BA had the 777 crash and the A319 engine cowling incident. Would you rule them out if they were an option for TUI to charter?

The fact that every one of these Airlines are regulated by CAA should instil confidence.

TUI have had time to prepare for this. They wouldnt have sat back and waited for the grounding to be extended without having a backup plan, especially given the volume of expansion that's been announced. Last summer was very last minute.

[FQTLSteve]

Just returned from a week's holiday with TUI to Fuerteventura. Out 0n 25.12 and returned on 01.01 (BHX-FUE) really pleased to travel on a 757 both ways, been a long time since I've been in one, and how comfortable it was in extra legroom seats in row 11 immediately left after boarding. It reminded me of what a lovely a/c it is, shame it's going.

[rog747]

Ryanair say they will not now see their MAX's in service before OCT, MOL speaking to the Press on Friday. It’s possible we’ll only get the first jets in October 2020.
O’Leary has previously said it would not take orders in July or August because it is the airline’s busiest time of the year.

Implications for TUI UK will be likely the same for them, Thus I cannot see any return to service in the main for TUI until for the following summer in 2021.
TUI would not need new MAX deliveries to be introduced during the winter 20-21 season.
They have 6 already grounded in UK/EU, plus a handful of brand new ones parked up at Boeing.
TUI also had a large MAX -10 order that was due to start for S20

[ROC10]

Yet again, Chambery Airport seems to be causing chaos today with the ski flights. Some flights due to depart first thing this morning simply didn’t depart with others being diverted elsewhere (LYS) and many showing “cancelled” on FR24 (I know TUI don’t really cancel flights but who knows when they will “catch up” with these). It looks like rather than flying LYS-CMF, passengers are being bussed to LYS for the return flights. I understand this will be mostly out of TUI’s control but wouldn’t it be easier if they just operated elsewhere for their ski flights? Most flights are seeing delays upwards of 5-6 hours which won’t be cheap.

[rog747]

Is it weather related at Chambery today or ATC (or both) ROC10?

We always had trouble using that airport many years ago, but the SKI tour operators want to go there for the easy access to the slopes, except when it all goes Pete Tong and the posh skiers all get very grumpy :(

[caaardiff]

Yet again, Chambery Airport seems to be causing chaos today with the ski flights. Some flights due to depart first thing this morning simply didn’t depart with others being diverted elsewhere (LYS) and many showing “cancelled” on FR24 (I know TUI don’t really cancel flights but who knows when they will “catch up” with these). It looks like rather than flying LYS-CMF, passengers are being bussed to LYS for the return flights. I understand this will be mostly out of TUI’s control but wouldn’t it be easier if they just operated elsewhere for their ski flights? Most flights are seeing delays upwards of 5-6 hours which won’t be cheap.

The majority of the time CMF works for the ski resorts it serves. There is the occasional issue with weather that causes delays and diversions, but generally this doesn't happen that often. As an Airline/Tour Operator, you don't plan where you fly based on potential bad weather and a few days of disruption over the whole season. You go to the most convenient Airport that works and deal with disruption on the day. Generally TUI preplan diversions (LYS mainly) based on bad weather forecasts at CMF and operate straight there meaning transfers are better organised and delays reduced.

[ROC10]

The majority of the time CMF works for the ski resorts it serves. There is the occasional issue with weather that causes delays and diversions, but generally this doesn't happen that often. As an Airline/Tour Operator, you don't plan where you fly based on potential bad weather and a few days of disruption over the whole season. You go to the most convenient Airport that works and deal with disruption on the day. Generally TUI preplan diversions (LYS mainly) based on bad weather forecasts at CMF and operate straight there meaning transfers are better organised and delays reduced.

I understand this but that certainly doesn’t seem to have happened today.

[commit aviation]

CMF is notorious for weather issues. It's location in the mountains is as already stated advantageous for skiers but the approach and departure to the airport is complex and airlines require approved crews to operate it.
Because the weather minima are so high here, it does result in more than the average level of days where weather is below limits. I have a vague recollection that Jet2 pulled out of CMF due to the levels of weather disruption being experienced there.
Finally ROC10, don't take FR24 as gospel at CMF - it is frequently wrong. There are for example Titan operations I have noted going in and out which are not listed at all which may be additions or have replaced the listed TUI ops but not been updated.

[DomyDom]

A first world problem I know but having recently booked a TUI holiday with a flight from Manchester to Cancun I've tried to update my booking using their app to include Champagne and Chocolates on the way out. I'm finding I just get and error message on their app, they are not contactable by phone and the TUI stores is unable to help. Not a big deal I know but you would think airlines would want customers to pay for those little extras.

[MARKEYD]

I would suggest your chocolate issue might be better suited on another forum

[Fatsterjack]

CMF is notorious for weather issues. It's location in the mountains is as already stated advantageous for skiers but the approach and departure to the airport is complex and airlines require approved crews to operate it.
Because the weather minima are so high here, it does result in more than the average level of days where weather is below limits. I have a vague recollection that Jet2 pulled out of CMF due to the levels of weather disruption being experienced there.
Finally ROC10, don't take FR24 as gospel at CMF - it is frequently wrong. There are for example Titan operations I have noted going in and out which are not listed at all which may be additions or have replaced the listed TUI ops but not been updated.

Those Titan flights are for tour operators, Inghams, Esprit, Skitotal etc. and don’t appear on a FR24 expected arrivals and departures, as you say. It looks like the missing Tui flights were finally recovered by a Hi Fly A340 yesterday evening with the final flight getting back from Lyon just after 1am this morning. That must have been a painful delay for those involved at the end of their holiday, back just over a day late.

I’ve been in and out of Chambery many times over the years and have breezed through on some occasions (even with snow on the ground) and had relatively minor delays of a couple of hours on others. Arguably worst experience was a very turbulent departure last March.

When I have a choice I would always choose Geneva or Lyon when visiting the Alps and luckily I’m avoiding Chambery for both my trips to the Alps this year. I do however understand why the likes of Tui see it as a good option of a speedy entry to many of the main ski resorts, it’s just that when the combination of weather, geography and small airport infrastructure are mixed together it tends to go very wrong, very fast. That certainly looks to be what happened on Saturday!

[vile8er]

A first world problem I know but having recently booked a TUI holiday with a flight from Manchester to Cancun I've tried to update my booking using their app to include Champagne and Chocolates on the way out. I'm finding I just get and error message on their app, they are not contactable by phone and the TUI stores is unable to help. Not a big deal I know but you would think airlines would want customers to pay for those little extras.
Try messaging them on Facebook? They've always responded to my queries that way.

[DomyDom]

Try messaging them on Facebook? They've always responded to my queries that way.
Thanks. Will do.

[garry8g]

Does anyone have any news on where TUI are going to acquire aircraft to make up the numbers required for their expanded Summer 2020 season?
There seems to be more aircraft leaving than arriving, and it is quite obvious the the MAX issues will not be resolved for the start of the season.

[rog747]

Does anyone have any news on where TUI are going to acquire aircraft to make up the numbers required for their expanded Summer 2020 season?
There seems to be more aircraft leaving than arriving, and it is quite obvious the the MAX issues will not be resolved for the start of the season.

Aircraft leaving the fleet over winter going to other companies is quite normal, and has worked like that for many charter airlines (like AE AMM, and Britannia) over the years, with those planes usually returning back off leases for the start of the next summer season,
However - with more TUI 757's and some older 738's being retired and no announcements as yet of any ACMI leases being arranged it seems TUI is still working hard to procure enough hardware to fulfil their S20 series.
For my tuppence - The MAX is unlikely to return for all or any of the S20 season, and their 9 or so grounded 737-8's were due to be joined by the new larger MAX-10 series for S20.
The-10 has a pax capacity similar to the 757.
Titan have placed many of their a/c already with Jet2 for S20, and Smartlynx are also been working now with Jet2.

[azz767]

Don't forget though TUI UK are up two 789's on last summer with G-TUIN/O being delivered a couple of months ago.

This frees up some 788's to do some short haul flying, like the 767's have done for years. This will increase capacity at bases like MAN and LGW. This obviously won't account for all of the extra lift needed. But up gauging a route from say a 738 to a 788, frees a 738 to operate somewhere else whilst also increasing capacity on the original route.

AFAIK both 767's were due to be gone from the UK by now too, but YG will return to operate alongside YH at MAN all summer.

Will there be any spare capacity from other TUI airlines? Rather than having to outsource is there any flexibility within the group to get spare a/c across. I'm thinking the extra two 767's in Scandi for example.

[Airlinepilot1687]

I have booked to go to Ibiza in Summer 20 with TUI, noticed on Flight Mapper its listed as 763 out and 789 on the return leg. Looking forward to getting on both.

[ROC10]

Don't forget though TUI UK are up two 789's on last summer with G-TUIN/O being delivered a couple of months ago.

This frees up some 788's to do some short haul flying, like the 767's have done for years. This will increase capacity at bases like MAN and LGW. This obviously won't account for all of the extra lift needed. But up gauging a route from say a 738 to a 788, frees a 738 to operate somewhere else whilst also increasing capacity on the original route.

AFAIK both 767's were due to be gone from the UK by now too, but YG will return to operate alongside YH at MAN all summer.

Will there be any spare capacity from other TUI airlines? Rather than having to outsource is there any flexibility within the group to get spare a/c across. I'm thinking the extra two 767's in Scandi for example.

I'd say the benefit of the two extra 789s will be fairly insignificant. Also, I believe long-haul has been expanded so it won't help free up aircraft for short-haul.

According to a post on another forum (and possibly also on this forum a while back), TOM will need 56 738-sized aircraft for S20. Currently, they have 29x738 and it is likely that at least one (possibly more) will be withdrawn prior to S20. This means they will need circa 30 extra 738-sized aircraft to operate the S20 schedule. Normally SWG send over 4-5 aircraft. This winter TOM have sent 10 aircraft to SWG so possibly SWG will send over more. Even if they do send 10 aircraft, for example, around 20 extra frames will need to be sourced. Further, the post indicates six 757-sized aircraft will be required. Currently they have 9x757, however, it looks like at least two of these are likely to be gone by S20, so whilst they wouldn't be short on 757 capacity, they won't have spares to cover 738 flights.

Any further insight would, of course, be appreciated.

[Brigantee]

Are they planning on using the likes of Olympus and albistar again this summer ?

[garry8g]

Aircraft leaving the fleet over winter going to other companies is quite normal, and has worked like that for many charter airlines (like AE AMM, and Britannia) over the years, with those planes usually returning back off leases for the start of the next summer season,


I was aware of that rog747, it was the other aircraft departing, and the fact of previous posts indicating aircraft numbers at various locations, that prompted my question.

[rog747]

Titan to replace 757-200's with 2 new A321LRs for S20 - Maybe TUI will book these? @195 seats compatible with 737-800/MAX but not a TUI 757
Titan’s fleet modernization will also include the arrival, in spring, of an Airbus A330, part of the transition to an all-Airbus operation.

In answer to Garry8g it seems none of us yet have a clue who TUI are getting to do ACMI work for S20 as yet...

[garry8g]

Titan to replace 757-200's with 2 new A321LRs for S20 - Maybe TUI will book these? @195 seats compatible with 737-800/MAX but not a TUI 757
Titan’s fleet modernization will also include the arrival, in spring, of an Airbus A330, part of the transition to an all-Airbus operation.


One of their A321LR's must be going to Jet2 for Summer 20, as there are 4 A321's planned from Titan for Stansted. (Unless they have more 2nd hand planned)
Also B757-200 GPOWH, is due to fly for Jet2 from Birmingham until at least the end of July 20.
There is also the potential for a further A321 from Titan flying out of Birmingham for Jet2.

TUI seem to be a bit slow off the mark.

[Yeehaw22]

Titan aren't getting the LRs til autumn so hardly relevant.

[SWBKCB]

Isn't it time to give ths subject a rest until there is actually something to discuss?

[ROC10]

Are they planning on using the likes of Olympus and albistar again this summer ?

Heard that they will not be using Olympus as they have already secured another contract with Transavia. They use Titan on-and-off during winter and used two of their A320s (as well as the occasional 757/767) last summer so if those are available again they may use those. They will of course need much more though, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the likes of AlbaStar being used.

[Vokes55]

Why would TUI hire 100 additional new pilots if they planned to use Olympus and AlbaStar?

[ROC10]

Why would TUI hire 100 additional new pilots if they planned to use Olympus and AlbaStar?

I’d agree but unless they acquire lots of aircraft or massively cut their programme (both unlikely I’d say), there’s simply no other way they can operate it. Unless you know anything we don’t?

[irishlad06]

I’d agree but unless they acquire lots of aircraft or massively cut their programme (both unlikely I’d say), there’s simply no other way they can operate it. Unless you know anything we don’t?

They were suppose to be getting 12-13 B737-800’s from Peagus. This was the last rumour anyway between flight deck and engineers that work there.

[Vokes55]

I’d agree but unless they acquire lots of aircraft or massively cut their programme (both unlikely I’d say), there’s simply no other way they can operate it. Unless you know anything we don’t?

But they don’t need the aircraft until late May, which is four months away.

I don’t dispute the fact that another Summer without the Max may require wet leases/subcharters, but if they were planning that to cover the expansion they wouldn’t have hired 100 pilots.

Aircraft leasing is a bit more complicated than just saying “we would like to keep it longer”. Maintenance programs are set out months in advance, the 757s would’ve been booked in for cargo conversion and the 737s that have left the fleet would’ve been allocated to new operators before the expansion was announced. The one owned 757, AW, would’ve needed expensive system upgrades to keep it in service, not least the installation of GPS.

There are a large number of 737NGs available around the world, granted some in varying states of disrepair, there would’ve been a plan in place prior to the announcement of expansion. TUI very rarely make their exact fleet plans known to the public or staff.

[sparkie320]

One would assume 5 737-800s will be joining us again this year from Sunwings
NWI,BFS,ABZ,DUB been the case last couple of years

[PDXCWL45]

One would assume 5 737-800s will be joining us again this year from Sunwings
NWI,BFS,ABZ,DUB been the case last couple of years
There will be 2 based at Cardiff I've been told.

[Matt995]

One would assume 5 737-800s will be joining us again this year from Sunwings
NWI,BFS,ABZ,DUB been the case last couple of years

I've heard it will be at least 7 aircraft leased from Sunwing for Summer.

[garry8g]

Not good news for TUI, but now at least certainty that they will need to cover the whole Summer 20 period with leased in aircraft.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51200118

[rog747]

Not good news for TUI, but now at least certainty that they will need to cover the whole Summer 20 period with leased in aircraft.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51200118

Just woke up to this Garry -
No surprises, but I was scoffed at a few months ago on Pprune for even suggesting that the 737-8 and the latest -10, will not be back with TUI, or anyone in the UK until Summer 2021.
I was told ''shurely shum mishatke'' -- you do mean S20?
No I said, I do mean S21!

Any news on the 12 Pegasus 738's that was being put around?
The new Titan 321LR's are not due until Q3 2020.
The Nordic, German, Belgium and other TUI airlines will be looking for their own uplift too.
Enter Air flies for TUI Poland and theirs are grounded too.

[garry8g]

Any news on the 12 Pegasus 738's that was being put around?

They might not be getting 12 now, after yesterdays terrible accident:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51384667

[FRatSTN]

Anybody any info on what equipment TUI plan to have based in LTN and STN this summer and any leased operators.

[ROC10]

Anybody any info on what equipment TUI plan to have based in LTN and STN this summer and any leased operators.

I believe LTN is one aircraft and STN is two.

There have been talks of LTN base closure but it doesn't seem likely for S20, although I believe TUI did do a rather large "slot swap" with Wizz at LTN so perhaps there's been some sort of arrangement there?

With regards to STN, for S19 it was 1xTOM and 1xTitan. I would guess Titan may be involved again this summer and, of course, STN tends to be the base which sees most Titan flights.

Perhaps someone internal will have more info?

[Matt995]

Anybody any info on what equipment TUI plan to have based in LTN and STN this summer and any leased operators.

Timetables show 1 737 at LTN, and 2 737's at STN, no information as of yet if they will be TUI aircraft, or leased in aircraft.

[VHF4]

Are TUI using third party carriers again this year to cover Max flights?

[taffyhammer]

Yes! Plus additions to the fleet

[fernlee]

Olympus again? ..Albistar?

[azz767]

Pegasus were mentioned up-thread. Up to 12 737-800's. Whether that has changed after the crash last week who knows

[Vokes55]

As this thread is just constant speculation, opinion and rumour about whether or not TUI will use third party again this summer, I’ll throw in some “news”. The four lines originally planned to be operated by Norwegian out of LGW are now planned to be operated by Smartlynx on a damp lease (Smartlynx flight deck, TUI cabin crew) basis, operating using TUI flight numbers but from the South terminal.

This is due to Norwegian’s own Max issues.

[PDXCWL45]

Olympus again? ..Albistar?
Albastar are doing non based PMI flights and Freebird are doing Antalya and Dalaman.

[ROC10]

As this thread is just constant speculation, opinion and rumour about whether or not TUI will use third party again this summer, I’ll throw in some “news”. The four lines originally planned to be operated by Norwegian out of LGW are now planned to be operated by Smartlynx on a damp lease (Smartlynx flight deck, TUI cabin crew) basis, operating using TUI flight numbers but from the South terminal.

This is due to Norwegian’s own Max issues.

I'm not really sure what you're implying with the first part of your post but perhaps comparing the word in bold with the name of the site would be useful. As has been said many times before, if you are not interested in the contents of a thread, you are not obligated to read or reply to it. Likewise, if you feel there's any particular subject that needs discussing instead, feel free to do so. Frankly, I can't see much else that is more news-worthy regarding TUI at the moment (especially as posters are frequently berated for posting about fleet movements and the like). The shortage of aircraft for the upcoming summer is a significant issue and so it is understandable that people wish to discuss it, whether this be through the posting of "rumours" or otherwise.

With that being said, your contribution in the later part of your post is appreciated and is the kind of helpful response people are most likely looking for.

[ROC10]

Olympus again? ..Albistar?

I believe Olympus have previously confirmed they will not be operating for TUI due to a planned engagement with Transavia in France.

[Vokes55]

I'm not really sure what you're implying with the first part of your post but perhaps comparing the word in bold with the name of the site would be useful. As has been said many times before, if you are not interested in the contents of a thread, you are not obligated to read or reply to it. Likewise, if you feel there's any particular subject that needs discussing instead, feel free to do so. Frankly, I can't see much else that is more news-worthy regarding TUI at the moment (especially as posters are frequently berated for posting about fleet movements and the like). The shortage of aircraft for the upcoming summer is a significant issue and so it is understandable that people wish to discuss it, whether this be through the posting of "rumours" or otherwise.
.

The reference to the “rumour” part of the website name always makes me laugh. Can I assume you’re also a “professional pilot” then?

Rumours are fine if they have come from a valid source. The majority of the stuff on this thread is just opinion. In your opinion Titan will be used at Stansted.

As has been mentioned by myself and others that might be regarded as credible sources, the expansion to the program is and always has been due to be operated by TUI crew on TUI aircraft. They wouldn’t hire 100 additional pilots if that wasn’t the case. What happens with the Max is anyone’s guess.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

TUI have stated that they have secured replacement aircraft for the max, for the whole of 2020.

[LGS6753]

From "Travel Mole":Published on Tuesday, February 11, 2020
TUI reports 'exceptional booking trends' following Thomas Cook's demiseTUI is enjoying 'exceptional booking trends' following the collapse of rival Thomas Cook in September. It said in January the UK delivered its best bookings volume in the company's history. CEO Fritz Joussen told analysts: "I have never seen summer trading like this. I see double-digit growth across all our markets for this summer."
Shares in the group rose nearly 12% in early trading today.
Releasing its first quarter results for 2020, it said customer numbers in the UK have risen 3% following Thomas Cook's demise. "Post the insolvency of a key competitor, we have seen a clear uplift in bookings in the first quarter as many customers turned to TUI to rebook their holidays, particularly in the UK," it said. "We have subsequently added new capacity to both our winter 2019/20 and summer 2020 programme to accommodate the increased volume."
But the grounding of the Boeing MAX 737 cost the group €45 million in the three months to December. TUI had previously set its profit forecast based on the MAX coming back into action by the end of April. But with Boeing now pushing back the re-introduction date, TUI has now been forced to secure replacement aircraft for the whole of the 2020 financial year. However, it has managed to narrow the range of additional cost for a full FY20 grounding of the 737 Max from around €220m to €270m to around €220m to €245m. Based on this, TUI has updated its guidance range and now expects an underlying EBIT range of €850 million to €1,050 million.

[SWBKCB]

It had laid out a scenario in which the 737 Max would return to service by the end of April but, in the wake of the latest information from Boeing, TUI says it has instead “secured replacement capacity” for the entire year.


https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/tui-extends-737-max-replacement-to-full-year/136671.article

[ROC10]

Great news for TUI today. It appears with the inevitable cost of covering the lost capacity, they still expect to make increased profits. Based on this and information posted on this thread, it looks like TUI will be making significant aircraft acquisitions prior to the beginning of the summer season.

[garry8g]

According to Jethro's this evening, TUI have acquired 9 second hand B737-800's.

The nine proposed aircraft are to be regd G-TUKB to K (No 'E'), and have been acquired from a variety of sources including Norwegian, Pegasus, Fly Dubia +

[Matt995]

According to Jethro's this evening, TUI have acquired 9 second hand B737-800's.

The nine proposed aircraft are to be regd G-TUKB to K (No 'E'), and have been acquired from a variety of sources including Norwegian, Pegasus, Fly Dubia +

I've heard more that 9, lead to believe the new aircraft will be registered G-TUKB to G-TUKV, (no G-TUKE & G-TUKU) so that means possibly 18 or 19 aircraft acquired (depends if they use G-TUKQ)

so maybe 12 from Pegasus, the rest from Norwegian & Fly Dubai?

[chaps1954]

UK do not use Q in registar system

[787Heaven]

I've heard more that 9, lead to believe the new aircraft will be registered G-TUKB to G-TUKV, (no G-TUKE & G-TUKU) so that means possibly 18 or 19 aircraft acquired (depends if they use G-TUKQ)

so maybe 12 from Pegasus, the rest from Norwegian & Fly Dubai?

I believe the letter Q is not used in UK aircraft registrations.

[P330]

Good news. This answers a lot of the questions about near term lift. Presumably if the aircraft are genuine purchases or medium term leases, it covers them into 2021 and beyond too. (As opposed to summer ACMI deals).

[LiamNCL]

Good news TUI clearly been hard at work behind the scenes early doors to ensure S20 expansion wasnt just words.

[pabely]

Good news. This answers a lot of the questions about near term lift. Presumably if the aircraft are genuine purchases or medium term leases, it covers them into 2021 and beyond too. (As opposed to summer ACMI deals).
All leases I believe

[LGS6753]

All leases I believe

It wouldn't be sensible to do anything else, with all those Maxs on order.

[ROC10]

Leases in what sense though? I’m sure pretty much their entire fleet is officially “leased” in that the aircraft are not owned by TOM, but rather leasing companies. The airline have acquired these aircraft and so they will presumably be fully painted etc (or at least I’d hope so). I’m guessing possibly leased for somewhere between 6mths-2yrs.

[Yeehaw22]

Leases in what sense though? I’m sure pretty much their entire fleet is officially “leased” in that the aircraft are not owned by TOM, but rather leasing companies. The airline have acquired these aircraft and so they will presumably be fully painted etc (or at least I’d hope so). I’m guessing possibly leased for somewhere between 6mths-2yrs.

i very much doubt they'll be painted. None of these aircraft have surfaced yet so doubt they'll have time to get them painted. White tails and decals would be my bet. Then if they are staying for medium term then they'll be painted over next winter.

[ROC10]

i very much doubt they'll be painted. None of these aircraft have surfaced yet so doubt they'll have time to get them painted. White tails and decals would be my bet. Then if they are staying for medium term then they'll be painted over next winter.

Yes, even just white with decals or perhaps basic blue like the old livery. TOM have never shown much interest in paining their leased aircraft even with basic decals, compared to Sunwing who usually always plaster the TUI frames with their decals. I would hope they won’t go for some sort of hybrid with Norwegian/Pegasus/FlyDubai liveries but we’ll see what happens.

[jethro15]

None of these aircraft have surfaced yet.................
They are starting to (http://www.jethros.org.uk/fleets/fleet_listings/tui_airways.htm)

[Yeehaw22]

They are starting to (http://www.jethros.org.uk/fleets/fleet_listings/tui_airways.htm)

You sure about the 2 ex swg?

[LiamNCL]

You sure about the 2 ex swg?

Due to leave the fleet ? The MAX will likely be back by the time Sunwings season starts up again after this one.

[rog747]

Due to leave the fleet ? The MAX will likely be back by the time Sunwings season starts up again after this one.

Umm? what year are we talking Liam? ;)

[LiamNCL]

Umm? what year are we talking Liam? ;)
Maybe 2022 :}

[pabely]

Remember TUI is not just UK operation, perhaps the balance of 738s being acquired will go to TUI Belguim, Deutschland, Netherlands & Nordic?

[AIRBUSNNS17]

Apologies in advance if this has been mentioned before but the TUI flights from Dublin are Tui Fly Nordic operating with BLX flight numbers instead of TUI Airways. Previously they wouldve been TOM flight numbers. Im wondering why this has changed?

[PDXCWL45]

Apologies in advance if this has been mentioned before but the TUI flights from Dublin are Tui Fly Nordic operating with BLX flight numbers instead of TUI Airways. Previously they wouldve been TOM flight numbers. Im wondering why this has changed?
Brexit? UK isn't in the EU now so TUI UK might not be able to do EU to EU?

[SWBKCB]

Brexit? UK isn't in the EU now so TUI UK might not be able to do EU to EU?

We may have left, but during the transition period the old rules still apply so there is no reason why these flights couldn't be operated by TUI UK.

[ROC10]

The DUB flights are operated by a TUI UK aircraft (G-TAWK) but with Nordic flight numbers/callsigns. Initially I was confused as these flights were previously operated with TOM flight numbers but I came to the conclusion that it is most likely somewhat related to Brexit.

[manchesterflyer]

You're quite right, the DUB operation was modified recently to de-risk the flying programme in the event of a hard Brexit. DUB crew & flights now operate under the Nordic umberella.

[Cazza_fly]

You're quite right, the DUB operation was modified recently to de-risk the flying programme in the event of a hard Brexit. DUB crew & flights now operate under the Nordic umberella.

Which essentially is a mirror image of TUI Airways operations, when compared to the rest of the airline group.

[CMM]

Wamos 747 positioning to MAN from MAD at the moment. Anyone know what it’s covering?

[manchesterflyer]

It's covering the SID flight which was supposed to depart this morning.

[ROC10]

Wamos 747 positioning to MAN from MAD at the moment. Anyone know what it’s covering?

I'm assuming it will be covering today's MAN-SID-MAN which was supposed to leave this morning but was unable to operate due to G-OBYH being stuck in LPA overnight last night (only just heading back to MAN now). The SID flight has been rescheduled for tomorrow morning.

On a similar note, there have been various ACMI airlines helping TUI this weekend:
AirExplore B738 OM-KEX (working from BRS)
Smartlynx A320 ES-SAK (working from STN and BRS)
GetJet A320 LY-COB (working from MAN and BHX)
Gowair A320 EC-MQH (working from DSA and BRS)
Titan A321 G-POWU (working from LGW)
and possibly others I may have missed.

[manchesterflyer]

[QUOTE=Cazza_fly;10688829]Which essentially is a mirror image of TUI Airways operations, when compared to the rest of the airline group.[/QUOTE
TUI Airwats

TUI Airways UK & TUI Nordic fall under the same Northern Region management board.
However in terms of regulatory control TUI Nordic falls under Swedish auspices, hence any restrictions that G-Reg operations may face in terms of intra-EU flying will not apply to a Swedish registered aeroplane. Hence DUB based cabin crew attestations were transferred to the Swedish register at the end of last year in order to mitigate any disruption caused by a hard Brexit, as there was uncertainty at the time over whether G-Reg a/c would be able to operate the flying programme following a no-deal Brexit.

[ROC10]

[QUOTE=Cazza_fly;10688829]Which essentially is a mirror image of TUI Airways operations, when compared to the rest of the airline group.[/QUOTE
TUI Airwats

TUI Airways UK & TUI Nordic fall under the same Northern Region management board.
However in terms of regulatory control TUI Nordic falls under Swedish auspices, hence any restrictions that G-Reg operations may face in terms of intra-EU flying will not apply to a Swedish registered aeroplane. Hence DUB based cabin crew attestations were transferred to the Swedish register at the end of last year in order to mitigate any disruption caused by a hard Brexit, as there was uncertainty at the time over whether G-Reg a/c would be able to operate the flying programme following a no-deal Brexit.

As mentioned above, the aircraft used for the DUB flights is a G-reg aircraft so this must not be the issue. The flights are operated by TUI fly Nordic on a TUI UK aircraft on behalf of TUI Ireland (no airline).

[Cloud1]

[QUOTE=manchesterflyer;10689218]

As mentioned above, the aircraft used for the DUB flights is a G-reg aircraft so this must not be the issue. The flights are operated by TUI fly Nordic on a TUI UK aircraft on behalf of TUI Ireland (no airline).

It is G-reg, operating under the Swedish airline AOC. All very confusing at first but there is some sort of technicality that allows this to work. All Brexit related. So great the airline was able to hatch a plan to get customers on their holidays. No doubt with increased overheads to cover these Brexit changes, holiday prices will rise at some point?

[rog747]

TUI had a bit of a weekend at BRS
The Air Explore 738 that came in FRI night to operate the SAT GVA as they did not have a TUI 738, went Tech and a Gowair A320 was brought in to cover....

[flyerguy]

First flights to Sharm started yesterday since the ban was stopped.

looks like good Load Factors so far!

[ROC10]

SSH flights are now showing in TUI’s timetable from the following bases for S21:

BHX
BRS
CWL
DSA
EDI
LGW
LTN
STN
MAN
NCL

Strangely though, the majority of departures are currently showing as mid-late morning (i.e. between 10:00 and 12:00). Therefore, if this is correct, unless other flights are dropped (in most cases two flights would need to be dropped), an extra aircraft will be required at various bases on certain days through the week.

The bases from which flights are not showing are: ABZ/BFS/BOH/EMA/EXT/GLA/NWI. There is still of course time for more flights to be added.

For S20, flights are only available from LGW/MAN/BHX/BRS.

[nivsy]

TUI annoying EDI bound pax according to the Daily Record and other press.....(can't say I fancy this journey much).https://www-dailyrecord-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-holidaymakers-hell-after-edinburgh-21548543.amp?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15823550226187&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailyrecord.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fscotti sh-news%2Fscots-holidaymakers-hell-after-edinburgh-21548543

[JonnyH]

SSH flights are now showing in TUI’s timetable from the following bases for S21:

BHX
BRS
CWL
DSA
EDI
LGW
LTN
STN
MAN
NCL

Strangely though, the majority of departures are currently showing as mid-late morning (i.e. between 10:00 and 12:00). Therefore, if this is correct, unless other flights are dropped (in most cases two flights would need to be dropped), an extra aircraft will be required at various bases on certain days through the week.

The bases from which flights are not showing are: ABZ/BFS/BOH/EMA/EXT/GLA/NWI. There is still of course time for more flights to be added.

For S20, flights are only available from LGW/MAN/BHX/BRS.

It could well be operated by a 788/789 from some of these bases which will be coming from LH in some cases. The MAX should be, you would expect, back by then too.

[ROC10]

TUI annoying EDI bound pax according to the Daily Record and other press.....(can't say I fancy this journey much).https://www-dailyrecord-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-holidaymakers-hell-after-edinburgh-21548543.amp?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15823550226187&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailyrecord.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fscotti sh-news%2Fscots-holidaymakers-hell-after-edinburgh-21548543

This has got to be one of the worst examples I’ve seen recently. I completely understand the issues around crew hours but it does seem difficult to believe TUI wouldn’t have known this prior to departure yet failed to inform passengers until five minutes before landing (apparently even the onboard screens displayed LGW as the destination but crew did not mention this). The way they were treated on arrival to LGW is definitely the worst part though, especially after already being delayed by 4 hours. This particular case has attracted hundreds of angry comments across various social media sites.

[wallp]

What is TUI's based fleet at LTN this summer?

[ROC10]

What is TUI's based fleet at LTN this summer?

1x738 as far as I'm aware

[22/04]

What is TUI's based fleet at LTN this summer?

Was going to be 1x 738 all week and second something like Mon-Thu which goes to BOH for the weekend

[Vokes55]

This has got to be one of the worst examples I’ve seen recently. I completely understand the issues around crew hours but it does seem difficult to believe TUI wouldn’t have known this prior to departure yet failed to inform passengers until five minutes before landing (apparently even the onboard screens displayed LGW as the destination but crew did not mention this). The way they were treated on arrival to LGW is definitely the worst part though, especially after already being delayed by 4 hours. This particular case has attracted hundreds of angry comments across various social media sites.

So what exactly would you have done differently? Cancel the flight before it left Edinburgh like the majority of other carriers would have given the risk of not making it back within hours? Forced the crew to work beyond their legal flying limits? Left the passengers onboard or in the terminal until a standby crew could've been called out to fly them to Edinburgh (probably around 7am earliest)? Put all the passengers on the next available flights back to Edinburgh from Gatwick (on a half term Friday)? Genuinely interested in the armchair CEO solution.

it does seem difficult to believe TUI wouldn’t have known this prior to departure

Does it? I've had many flights that have gone within 10 minutes of max FDP. There was a French ATC strike on the same day, the flight took an Oceanic routing to avoid French airspace, and could've been subject to ATC slots (yes, even at that time of night). The crew would've tried to get back to Edinburgh, but the max FDP is a boundary that cannot be willingly crossed, even by a minute. Something as simple as a pushback delay due to ramp congestion, having to wait at the runway holding point for an arrival, avoiding weather en route, less favourable winds than forecast or having to reduce cruising speed due to turbulence could make or break the ability to legally get back to EDI or not.

If they knew they were going to Gatwick before they departed, the company would've had an extra four hours to arrange onward travel for the moment they arrived

[nivsy]

So what exactly would you have done differently? Cancel the flight before it left Edinburgh like the majority of other carriers would have given the risk of not making it back within hours? Forced the crew to work beyond their legal flying limits? Left the passengers onboard or in the terminal until a standby crew could've been called out to fly them to Edinburgh (probably around 7am earliest)? Put all the passengers on the next available flights back to Edinburgh from Gatwick (on a half term Friday)? Genuinely interested in the armchair CEO solution.



Does it? I've had many flights that have gone within 10 minutes of max FDP. There was a French ATC strike on the same day, the flight took an Oceanic routing to avoid French airspace, and could've been subject to ATC slots (yes, even at that time of night). The crew would've tried to get back to Edinburgh, but the max FDP is a boundary that cannot be willingly crossed, even by a minute. Something as simple as a pushback delay due to ramp congestion, having to wait at the runway holding point for an arrival, avoiding weather en route, less favourable winds than forecast or having to reduce cruising speed due to turbulence could make or break the ability to legally get back to EDI or not.

If they knew they were going to Gatwick before they departed, the company would've had an extra four hours to arrange onward travel for the moment they arrived
With all that uncertainty, I can only deduce that their was no guarantee of even reaching the UK before running out of hours. Wondering if the clearance on the ground was for LGW, or EDI.

[Matt995]

latest update for summer 2020 now shows the following based aircraft at Birmingham :-



1 x B788, (+extra B788 for 2 days), 2 x B757, 4 x B738, 1 x A321, 2 x A320



so 2 leased in Airbus A320's and 1 A321, any ideas which airlines these will be coming from?

[ROC10]

So what exactly would you have done differently? Cancel the flight before it left Edinburgh like the majority of other carriers would have given the risk of not making it back within hours? Forced the crew to work beyond their legal flying limits? Left the passengers onboard or in the terminal until a standby crew could've been called out to fly them to Edinburgh (probably around 7am earliest)? Put all the passengers on the next available flights back to Edinburgh from Gatwick (on a half term Friday)? Genuinely interested in the armchair CEO solution.

Does it? I've had many flights that have gone within 10 minutes of max FDP. There was a French ATC strike on the same day, the flight took an Oceanic routing to avoid French airspace, and could've been subject to ATC slots (yes, even at that time of night). The crew would've tried to get back to Edinburgh, but the max FDP is a boundary that cannot be willingly crossed, even by a minute. Something as simple as a pushback delay due to ramp congestion, having to wait at the runway holding point for an arrival, avoiding weather en route, less favourable winds than forecast or having to reduce cruising speed due to turbulence could make or break the ability to legally get back to EDI or not.

If they knew they were going to Gatwick before they departed, the company would've had an extra four hours to arrange onward travel for the moment they arrived

It’s not in TUI’s interest to cancel flights so no, of course I’m not suggesting that. In this kind of situation though they normally tend to bring in a standby aircraft/crew to operate the flight (rather than wait 4 hours for whatever issue there was to be resolved) or operate only the outbound and reschedule the inbound until the next day, putting the passengers up in a hotel down-route (I appreciate this is expensive but they ended up having to do it at LGW anyway). I can safely say the vast majority would have preferred to have their flight delayed by approximately 24 hours and have another night in Lanzarote than be dumped at Gatwick, wait outside in the cold for hours to be put in a hotel and then face a 10-hour coach journey the following afternoon/evening.

Obviosuly I can’t say for sure whether or not they ever intended to go to EDI but a passenger has been quoted as saying the onboard screens displayed LGW as the flight’s destination. Whether the crew tried to ‘hide’ this and then only inform them five minutes before landing, I again don’t know (I am, of course, not suggesting the crew willingly did this but that it’s perhaps what the company asked them to do). As the other poster suggested, with so much uncertainty over whether they could make EDI, should they really have departed at all? I appreciate LGW is a bit closer but the flight still took around 4 hours.

Again, don’t take this as questioning the crew’s abilities as I am absolutely not doing so but rather the company’s transparency with its customers. From experience, both personally and anecdotally, in this case and also in previous cases (with TUI), it doesn’t tend to be delay itself that bothers passengers so much, but rather, a lack of information and poor aftercare (certainly valid in this case). TUI often do well in dealing with delays (they seem to have done reasonably well with the LPA fiasco this evening, at least for cruise passengers anyway, but again, lack of information is a common theme) but one could argue this is expected of what is a holiday company and not just another budget airline. I would say Jet2 certainly have them beaten in this area.

[SWBKCB]

What we don't know is what was happening on the day - it's easy to say they should have done this and should have done that but sh*t happens.

These situations tend to be very dynamic - it's easy to say you need to be transparent but many a time I've said something and then something else goes wrong that makes you look like a liar...

Never underestimate Murphy's law.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I wonder how they got on yesterday with flights to the Canary Islands due to the sand storm that closed airports at TFS, TFN and LPA.
At least 30 flights were diverted to other airports, l have no idea if they had any flights into TFS or LPA.

[ericlday]

Diverting from TFS around 19.00 last night but fully operational today (Sunday) Still very windy but more or less straight down the runway so no crosswind component.
Correction to the above....windshear on 07

[ROC10]

I wonder how they got on yesterday with flights to the Canary Islands due to the sand storm that closed airports at TFS, TFN and LPA.
At least 30 flights were diverted to other airports, l have no idea if they had any flights into TFS or LPA.

LGW-LPA was cancelled, unsure on current status but don’t think it has departed yet

MAN-LPA was diverted to FAO then returned to MAN, unsure on current status but don’t think it has departed yet

BHX-LPA was cancelled, has now landed at LPA

DSA-LPA turned back to DSA around half way there, has now landed at LPA

CWL-LPA was diverted to TFS and is still there now

[flyerguy]

All airports in Canary’s currently closed

TOM2776 MAN-TFS 14:30STD now showing CTOT of 19:47

TOM4744 LGW-TFS 13:25STD now showing CTOT of 19:53

TOM2754 MAN-ACE 16:20STD now showing CTOT of 20:01

TOM4766 LGW-ACE 15:00STD now showing CTOT of 20:07


looks like EuroControl are expecting a busy evening once these airports reopen

[ROC10]

BOH-ACE and EXT-ACE were both diverted to FUE but ACE now appears to have reopened with ACE-LTN having just departed. G-FDZU has also just left TFS, FR24 showing TFS-LPA but it is heading back to the UK.

[LBAflyer22]

All airports in Canary’s currently closed

TOM2776 MAN-TFS 14:30STD now showing CTOT of 19:47

TOM4744 LGW-TFS 13:25STD now showing CTOT of 19:53

TOM2754 MAN-ACE 16:20STD now showing CTOT of 20:01

TOM4766 LGW-ACE 15:00STD now showing CTOT of 20:07


looks like EuroControl are expecting a busy evening once these airports reopen

Closed to arriving traffic but appears to be open to departing traffic (to get people off the islands, free up space for aircraft). A quick glance and it seems the ACE-NCL for Jet2, the ACE-BFS for Jet2, TFS-NCL for Jet2 have all departed within the last 15-20 minutes.

Quite a number of Nordic Carriers have all departed from TFS, TUI Germany departed from FUE. easyJet A320 for LGW is airborne now, 8000ft and climbing.

[flyerguy]

Yeah most likely trying to clear everything before everyone tries to get in again.

[LBAflyer22]

Yeah most likely trying to clear everything before everyone tries to get in again.

You'd like to think so. A quick filter for Jet2 (i know wrong thread) shows that they have 3 bound Canary Flights (two TFS and one ACE) which seemed to have diverted off track and heading for somewhere else. Presumably ATC in Madrid/Lisbon and Canaries have decided to initiate en route diverts.

Speaking of Diverts, last nights TUI MAN-FAO-MAN (Dest: LPA) on the 767-300 went out this morning on the 787-9. Does anyone know if that's returned to UK/ Diverted elsewhere?

[flyerguy]

You'd like to think so. A quick filter for Jet2 (i know wrong thread) shows that they have 3 bound Canary Flights (two TFS and one ACE) which seemed to have diverted off track and heading for somewhere else. Presumably ATC in Madrid/Lisbon and Canaries have decided to initiate en route diverts.

Speaking of Diverts, last nights TUI MAN-FAO-MAN (Dest: LPA) on the 767-300 went out this morning on the 787-9. Does anyone know if that's returned to UK/ Diverted elsewhere?

The 767 came back to Manchester!

[LBAflyer22]

The 767 came back to Manchester!

Pax had another attempt at LPA today on G-TUIO. Quick look on Flight Radar shows that flight did a u turn over the atlantic and headed back to the UK. Really bad weekend for the tour operators/airlines who rely on these markets for the winter period.

[ROC10]

The 767 came back to Manchester!

The 789 is now back in MAN, same flight turned back two days in a row. I’ve heard that TUI are now cancelling all affected holidays. The CWL-LPA which was diverted to TFS last night is now heading back TFS-CWL with all those passengers being brought home without a holiday/cruise. The cruise ship has left Gran Canaria now.

[ROC10]

With regards to pax due to come home yesterday, they have been given no info with many apparently stuck in LPA which is on “lock down”, images of kids lying on floors, etc. There have been complaints that there are no TUI reps in sight whereas Jet2 are very much visible and helping their pax out.

[ericlday]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1440x1020/87261264_2646432395454903_561034939173175296_o_8f349ca963939 e6708037bf122e3a4a5b1215a2c.jpg
TFS this afternoon

[inOban]

According to the BBC the wind will be even stronger on Monday.

[LiamNCL]

According to Jethros G-TUKG will be or has been painted in TUI colours which suggests there will be no odd temporary hybrids.

[brian_dromey]

According to Jethros G-TUKG will be or has been painted in TUI colours which suggests there will be no odd temporary hybrids.

So far there are 3 ex flyDubai, 2 Sunwing (are these the usual temporary summer leases, or permanent additions?) and a Pegasus example. Im surprised that flyDubai are retiring 738s, their MAX's are sunbathing, of course.

[ROC10]

So far there are 3 ex flyDubai, 2 Sunwing (are these the usual temporary summer leases, or permanent additions?) and a Pegasus example. Im surprised that flyDubai are retiring 738s, their MAX's are sunbathing, of course.

From a quick check of the frames listed on Jerhros, these are all older 738s without Sky Interiors, some are over 13 years old (older than the 738s TUI have recently withdrawn). The Sunwing frames (if accurate) would appear to be proper acquisitions rather than summer leases (possibly these may be leased back to SWG for winter though).

[Matt2725]

Looks like TUIFly are getting their 788s from the UK.

G-TUIH to become D-ALDA
G-TUIF to become D-ALDB

[brian_dromey]

From a quick check of the frames listed on Jerhros, these are all older 738s without Sky Interiors, some are over 13 years old (older than the 738s TUI have recently withdrawn). The Sunwing frames (if accurate) would appear to be proper acquisitions rather than summer leases (possibly these may be leased back to SWG for winter though).
Is it a case of securing whatever they can, with other airlines also looking for narrow bodies. These aircraft are clearly not Plan A - which was MAX.

[ROC10]

Looks like TUIFly are getting their 788s from the UK.

G-TUIH to become D-ALDA
G-TUIF to become D-ALDB

Can’t imagine that’ll be great news for TUI UK this summer but I suppose this would’ve been known for a while. Basically means the 2 new 789s will just replace lost capacity (with slightly more seats of course). I was under the impression that they were increasing their long-haul offering for S20 though so perhaps just higher utilisation of aircraft?

[Matt995]

Looks like TUIFly are getting their 788s from the UK.

G-TUIH to become D-ALDA
G-TUIF to become D-ALDB


These 2 788s are not due to transfer until October 2020.

[Matt2725]

Can’t imagine that’ll be great news for TUI UK this summer but I suppose this would’ve been known for a while. Basically means the 2 new 789s will just replace lost capacity (with slightly more seats of course). I was under the impression that they were increasing their long-haul offering for S20 though so perhaps just higher utilisation of aircraft?

As mentioned these will remain with UK until after the summer season.

[azz767]

As mentioned these will remain with UK until after the summer season.

What's the plan next summer? Will they replace them or can they cope without them next summer.

[garry8g]

What's the plan next summer? Will they replace them or can they cope without them next summer.

Are they not just winter leases, and due back to the UK for Summer 21?

[Matt2725]

Are they not just winter leases, and due back to the UK for Summer 21?

Unsure. But it wouldn't follow the typical winter leases TUI operate.

787s leased to TUI Nordic retain their G- registrations. These are being re-registered, plus I believe TUIFly were due to get two widebodies full time anyway. So I suspect these are those.

[ROC10]

Unsure. But it wouldn't follow the typical winter leases TUI operate.

787s leased to TUI Nordic retain their G- registrations. These are being re-registered, plus I believe TUIFly were due to get two widebodies full time anyway. So I suspect these are those.

Yes, these are not leases. The two aircraft are being transferred to TUI fly (X3) as they will be launching long-haul ops from Dusseldorf. An ex-TOM 787 (G-TUIG) already transferred to TUI Belgium a couple of years ago. What's not clear is whether this will result in reduced capacity for TOM from S21 onwards. I don't believe the TUI Group have any further 787s on order (could be wrong) and I'd guess the 767s won't be around for too much longer either.

[azz767]

Unless they do a summer wet lease job it looks as though it will be reductions.

I suppose a few Norwegian dreamliners will become available if the expectation of their demise comes true, but where else will they get 2nd hand dreamliners from?

I can’t see them introducing a new long haul type, so if they are going for replacement a/c you would assume they would be dreamliners.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

azz767,
Norwegian dreamliners are a no no, different engine config and the last thing that TUI need at this time is any aircraft with Trent 1000 engines.
Even the largest operator of the type is now switching to the GEnx engine for there latest orders.

[clipstone1]

azz767,
Norwegian dreamliners are a no no, different engine config and the last thing that TUI need at this time is any aircraft with Trent 1000 engines.
Even the largest operator of the type is now switching to the GEnx engine for there latest orders.


Ignoring cost....at least with B787, its a relatively easy swap from RR to GE....

[Vokes55]

What’s the obsession with replacing these 787s? TOM have 5 lines of short haul flying on the 787 in the summer, there’s a surplus of widebody capacity throughout most of the year. Moving aircraft around the group airlines to operate the routes the aircraft are designed for makes sense.

[garry8g]

Unsure. But it wouldn't follow the typical winter leases TUI operate.

787s leased to TUI Nordic retain their G- registrations. These are being re-registered, plus I believe TUIFly were due to get two widebodies full time anyway. So I suspect these are those.

TUIFly did have a B767 for 2 winter seasons(different aircraft) from TOM, which were re-registered for the winter season with TUIFly and then re-registered back to TOM for the summer season.

Could the same be happening here? or do TUIFly intend to fly long-haul all year round?

[clipstone1]

The big difference is TOM usually fly the Nordic longhaul programme, hence the aircraft stay on the UK register. It will be X3 pilots operating the B787 from Germany, hence re-registering them on the D register.

[Yeehaw22]

German 787 ops are permanent year round. Nordic long haul flying reduced for winter 20.

[azz767]

What’s the obsession with replacing these 787s? TOM have 5 lines of short haul flying on the 787 in the summer, there’s a surplus of widebody capacity throughout most of the year. Moving aircraft around the group airlines to operate the routes the aircraft are designed for makes sense.

it’s still a massive capacity loss on short haul especially if these leave full which you’d imagine in summer they would. Replacing a 787 on a short haul route with a 737 is a big loss, and they won’t have the 737’s even with maxes back to double up surely

[rog747]

Don't Panic TOM know what they are doing.....They managed pretty well last year when dropped in it right at the start of S19

[Yeehaw22]

it’s still a massive capacity loss on short haul especially if these leave full which you’d imagine in summer they would. Replacing a 787 on a short haul route with a 737 is a big loss, and they won’t have the 737’s even with maxes back to double up surely

You seem to be forgetting the 9 extra 738s that are joining the fleet (depending on the lease term obviously). Along with the maxes which will be back by S21 they will have the aircraft to cover 2 missing 788's.

[ROC10]

You seem to be forgetting the 9 extra 738s that are joining the fleet (depending on the lease term obviously). Along with the maxes which will be back by S21 they will have the aircraft to cover 2 missing 788's.

Will the MAXs be back though? A couple of months ago I probably would’ve said they definitely would, but now, I really wouldn’t be sure. Also, I’d imagine some of the older 738s and most/all of the 757s will be gone over the next year or two. And if the MAXs are back by S21, will they keep all of these “contingency” aircraft? Also, the reintroduction of the MAX is unlikely to be a speedy process, with backlogged deliveries and airline testing/training.

[Yeehaw22]

Will the MAXs be back though? A couple of months ago I probably would’ve said they definitely would, but now, I really wouldn’t be sure. Also, I’d imagine some of the older 738s and most/all of the 757s will be gone over the next year or two. And if the MAXs are back by S21, will they keep all of these “contingency” aircraft? Also, the reintroduction of the MAX is unlikely to be a speedy process, with backlogged deliveries and airline testing/training.

They aren't contingency aircraft they are growth aircraft. All the 3rd party wet leases are the contingencies. I cant see them being around for just 1 summer with the cost Involved in securing them, painting etc.

Regarding the max who knows. Most airlines are expecting them back before year end but impossible to say. But if they are there will be more than the 9 UK aircraft that are currently grounded. Granted majority of 757s should be gone, but we've said that before aswell.

[rog747]

I am sure TUI is now mulling over their planned big plans for future growth and may well take stock of the world situations......
Re the MAX - well don't hold your breath. We have not got a clue as to that outcome.....

[xanda_man]

Does anyone know whats happening with G-TUIL down in BGI? Was due back in to BHX this morning as BY825, assuming it's gone tech? Suppose it explains the Wamos 332 thats covering the CUN flight today.

[sparkie320]

So far there are 3 ex flyDubai, 2 Sunwing (are these the usual temporary summer leases, or permanent additions?) and a Pegasus example. Im surprised that flyDubai are retiring 738s, their MAX's are sunbathing, of course.
this has since changed now
3 ex FlyDubai
3 ex Norwegian
2 ex Pegasus, been told NWI expecting one for paint soon not sure which one
1 ex Malaysian
The sunwing arrangement looks like 7 coming over this summer and the planned 2 that were to be bought now part of the larger leased fleet coming over
and possible extended
all of course subject to change as we know in this game


Mark

[ROC10]

Planespotters is now indicating that TOM will only acquire four (1x Norwegian, 3x FlyDubai) second-hand B738s. Jethros is still showing nine aircraft.

G-FDZG has been WFU and will join G-FDZE at Belavia. It also looks like the lease has been extended on G-OOBF as this did not leave the fleet as originally predicted. It remains to be seen whether the same is done for G-OOBE which Jethros currently has leaving in April.

[BOHEuropean]

Planespotters is now indicating that TOM will only acquire four (1x Norwegian, 3x FlyDubai) second-hand B738s. Jethros is still showing nine aircraft.

Planespotters.net only lists the ones they know the MSNs for; it doesn't mean that more won't be joining... for example, Jethro's predicts that there is one coming from Malysian but Planespotters.net cannot show it because they don't know the specific aircraft involved. So neither site is incorrect, they just show information differently. Don't read into it too much. I'd heard there would be more than the 9 joining but who knows.

[JamesC787]

Pegasus 738 TC-IZG currently on ground at DGX. Is that one that TUI are due?

[pabely]

Pegasus 738 TC-IZG currently on ground at DGX. Is that one that TUI are due?
This is the c/n of the one listed in Jethros so I would say yes.

[ROC10]

This is the c/n of the one listed in Jethros so I would say yes.

The one on Jethros is TC-IZE
37740 / 2638

The other is an unknown Pegasus but it’s likely it may be TC-IZG mentioned above.

[ROC10]

Rescue flights 09/03/20:

LGW-TRN-LGW (757)
EMA-TRN-EDI (738) (flight normally operates to/from GLA but airport likely closed)
MAN-TRN-MAN (757)

According to FR24, TOM have seven weekly flights to TRN (all on Sundays). Flights to BHX, BRS, and STN will presumably operate tomorrow (if allowed). There is also a second LGW flight (737) and the MAN flight is normally a 763 so extra capacity may be required on that route.

Nothing to/from VRN as of yet.

[ROC10]

Anyone know why today’s BY858/9 LGW-NBE-LGW operated LGW-PMI-LGW? It left LGW around 7 hours late and was certainly heading to NBE but diverted to PMI. It is now heading back to LGW without going to NBE. The MAN-NBE flight is now airborne but also looks like it may be heading to PMI (very rough guess based on FR24 heading). The plan seems to be for the inbound NBE-LGW to operate tonight with the NBE-MAN postponed to tomorrow.

I haven’t seen anything on Tunisia banning flights but it looks like this may be the case.

Jet2 have also cancelled flights to Cyprus. TUI had a flight there from MAN today but I’m not sure whether or not there were passengers onboard.

[pamann]

Anyone know why today’s BY858/9 LGW-NBE-LGW operated LGW-PMI-LGW? It left LGW around 7 hours late and was certainly heading to NBE but diverted to PMI. It is now heading back to LGW without going to NBE. The MAN-NBE flight is now airborne but also looks like it may be heading to PMI (very rough guess based on FR24 heading). The plan seems to be for the inbound NBE-LGW to operate tonight with the NBE-MAN postponed to tomorrow.

I haven’t seen anything on Tunisia banning flights but it looks like this may be the case.

Jet2 have also cancelled flights to Cyprus. TUI had a flight there from MAN today but I’m not sure whether or not there were passengers onboard.

Tunisia closed its boarders. Presumably whilst the aircraft was inflight.

[davidjohnson6]

Czechia, Denmark, Slovakia and Tunisia are all closing their borders to non-residents/citizens. Spain is going into emergency decree mode. Italy has effectively shut down international flights. I expect more of the same over the next 2 weeks

Can TUI survive a summer of (almost) zero revenue ?

[30W]

Yes, Tunisia refused the aircraft entry

[ROC10]

Czechia, Denmark, Slovakia and Tunisia are all closing their borders to non-residents/citizens. Spain is going into emergency decree mode. Italy has effectively shut down international flights. I expect more of the same over the next 2 weeks

Can TUI survive a summer of (almost) zero revenue ?

TUI and Jet2 are both largely at risk I'd say. Especially with TUI having a cruise business. This was previously reported to be one of their saving graces but is now likely to be a massive burden.

[ROC10]

Tunisia closed its boarders. Presumably whilst the aircraft was inflight.

I assume holidays cancelled and refunds will be given?

EDIT: The MAN flight still seems to be heading for Tunisia so perhaps they will try again tomorrow. Although this may just be for repatriation purposes.

[Buster the Bear]

It was reported today that TUI group are £2bn in debt. An equal sum is in held in cash reserves, but could be paid out in holiday refunds. The tour operator is using ‘force majeure’ terms to freeze pre-payments and suspend contracts with hotels as customers cancel bookings during the Covid-19 pandemic.

It told the newspaper it is also stopping recruitment and looking at reducing staff hours.

“Since the recent outbreak of the coronavirus and its pace of spread across the world, the global travel industry has experienced significant uncertainty which has led into reduced customer demand and weaker bookings over the last couple of weeks,” said a Tui spokesperson.

“We are continuously monitoring the situation very closely and actively evaluating the implications for the business. Therefore we are in close contact with our hotel partners worldwide, jointly reviewing options for capacity management, to mitigate the impact for both Tui and its partners.”

[ROC10]

So far, TUI have cancelled:

Alicante
Cyprus
Malta
Tunisia
Italy
Goa
Sri Lanka
Jamaica

some of these are due to compulsory government action, of course.

Stricter procedures on Thailand and Vietnam.

Universal and Disney are also closed in Orlando.

https://www.tui.co.uk/destinations/travel-information/tui-coronavirus-information

[ROC10]

It looks like TUI have also cancelled all Canaries flights. Nothing official AFAIK but all outbounds just now seem to be ferries. If this is true, most TUI bases will be closed next week with no departures and only some rescue inbounds.

All Spanish airports will probably be locked down soon anyway though.

[LTNman]

This is bad beyond belief. Many good people work at the TUI HQ and in the hangar at Luton who must be so worried for their future.

[Buster the Bear]

TUi need HM Govt to mandate, no refunds, only deferrals of flights and holidays. Completely unpopular, but might permit the airlines to survive. Handing back balances and deposits, could be terminal?

[ROC10]

Updated now, similar for other countries but Spain is most significant, of course.

Holidays to Spain, Canary Islands, Balearics Islands

Following local measures put in place by the Spanish Authorities, including closing some hotel facilities and the local bars, restaurants and beaches we have made the difficult decision to cancel holidays due to travel between 14th and 29th March.

Customers due to travel to the Spain, Canary Islands and Balearics Islands between 15th and 17th March will have their holiday automatically cancelled and refunded. There is no need to call us.

Customers due to travel to Spain, Canary Islands and Balearics Islands between 18th and 28th March we will call you to rearrange your holiday or offer a full-refund.

Customers due to travel after 29th March, please bear with us as we prioritise customers due to travel in the next two weeks. We would like to thank our customers for their understanding.

[Grizzle]

Like Flybe, TUI will need to fight for its own survival or fall.
Passengers who have paid for their holidays cannot be expected to be held to ransom to keep the airline afloat.
Reality, unfortunately

[ROC10]

Remaining destinations (based on process of elimination, please post if incorrect):

Morocco
Cape Verde
Egypt
Mexico
Vietnam (Visa required)
Thailand (more info must be provided via mobile app)
Mauritius
Caribbean (other than Jamaica)

All cruises have been cancelled.

[LTNman]

But if holidaymakers want to keep to Europe they are stuffed. Also they would need new holiday insurance except new insurance policies taken out now exclude issues linked to the virus.

[SWBKCB]

Portugal, Austria, Turkey?

[ROC10]

Portugal, Austria, Turkey?

I'm basing this on the current schedules so Turkey wasn't included.

Isn't Austria on lockdown? There were ferry flights out there today to bring people back but as far as I'm aware all cancelled now, although the ski season is finishing up now anyway.

Madeira is cancelled.

[Level bust]

Madira has just announced that everyone who arrives now have to go into 14 days self isolation, hence the cancellation. According to my son who is out there, those already there are exempt. Don't know about the mainland though.

[SealinkBF]

Incredible isn't it? After Monarch and Thomas Cook went, TUI seemed to be impenetrable. And now a virus that doesn't even have a brain is reducing them to their knees...

[ROC10]

Dominican Republic and Morocco now cancelled

[ROC10]

TUI: ALL Departures (Monday 16 March)

LGW
LIR
AYT (new)
SID
HRG

MAN
BVC
HRG

BHX
RMF
HRG
CUN

BRS
HRG

[pabloc]

Incredible isn't it? After Monarch and Thomas Cook went, TUI seemed to be impenetrable. And now a virus that doesn't even have a brain is reducing them to their knees...
every airline at the moment!!!

[Vokes55]

I don’t think TUI are any more “on their knees” than any other airline at the moment.

[LTNman]

TUI is a holiday company with an airline and not just an airline. Does that complicate things?

[Buster the Bear]

https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/362986/tui-group-suspends-majority-of-travel-operations

[USERNAME_]

I don’t think TUI are any more “on their knees” than any other airline at the moment.

No denying that, but one could argue that given the issues TUI had last year, there are other airlines/tour operators who are sitting on a comfier cash reserve than TUI, compared to the likes of Jet2 or Easy perhaps.

[SealinkBF]

I don’t think TUI are any more “on their knees” than any other airline at the moment.

Not the point I was making

[DanAir89]

Per daily mailTravel giant Tui suspends vast majority of travel operations until further notice as British Airways axes 75 per cent of its flights and EasyJet announces further cancellations

[Vokes55]

Not the point I was making

What point were you making then? In fact I don’t see much point at all to your post.

[SealinkBF]

What point were you making then? In fact I don’t see much point at all to your post.

But you saw fit to reply to it. 🤣

[SWBKCB]

Leisure group TUI is applying for state-aid guarantees to support its business until it can restore normal operations, after suspending most of its travel operations.
TUI says it is halting the “vast majority” of its package travel, cruise and hotel activities to assist with the efforts to counter the coronavirus outbreak.
The company has cash and available facilities of around €1.4 billion, it says, and it is taking “substantial” cost measures to limit the impact on earnings.
“We have decided to apply for state aid guarantees to support the business until normal operations are resumed,” it adds.

Flight - TUI seeks state guarantees as travel market collapses (https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/tui-seeks-state-guarantees-as-travel-market-collapses/137294.article)

[SealinkBF]

Tui shares collapsed by a further 32%. The shares have fallen from 977p on 17 February to 246p on Monday – a 75% decline. The Guardian.

[LGS6753]

My understanding is that TUI has some borrowings that are due to be rescheduled, and which carry onerous covenants.Such a massive fall in the share price indicates that they are viewed in the market as fragile.

[davidjohnson6]

My understanding is that TUI has some borrowings that are due to be rescheduled, and which carry onerous covenants.Such a massive fall in the share price indicates that they are viewed in the market as fragile.

Does one of the covenants make life more difficult if the share price is below (for example) 250 pence ?

[LTNman]

State aid from who as this is a German company.

[LGS6753]

Does one of the covenants make life more difficult if the share price is below (for example) 250 pence ?

Sorry, I can't answer that. I don't know whether banking covenants are in the public domain.

Does one of the covenants make life more difficult if the share price is below (for example) 250 pence ?

It is quoted in both London and Frankfurt. Not sure if that makes it British or German.

[double-oscar]

In the past month TUI raised about £600 million pounds from selling its Hapag Lloyd cruise line into a joint venture. This was to be used in transforming various aspects of the business but obviously it could be put to other uses if needed. Also being a German company I suspect they will probably find it easier to get help from the German government than a UK company trying to get help from the UK government. Just look at Condor.

[ATNotts]

In the past month TUI raised about £600 million pounds from selling its Hapag Lloyd cruise line into a joint venture. This was to be used in transforming various aspects of the business but obviously it could be put to other uses if needed. Also being a German company I suspect they will probably find it easier to get help from the German government than a UK company trying to get help from the UK government. Just look at Condor.

Indeed, and just look at Condor. The UK government pretended they couldn't give financial help to Flybe, and will doubtless claim the same for other British airlines, blaming "EU regulations" yet other EU states have no issues in assisting their industries. It's just that when it comes down to it the UK government cares only about one sector - financial services.

[davidjohnson6]

Condor at an operating level made money. Thomas Cook UK did not.
When a company wants to borrow money, the first question is - do I think you will pay me back ? Thomas Cook Air had lovely people at airports and in the air - but financially was a zombie. If you want to blame somebody, Manny Fontenla-Novoa who was CEO until 2011 would be a good candidate - he loaded the company up with debt. The EU had nothing to do with it, it was just a business that was failing and the cat had run out of lives

[LTNman]

Indeed, and just look at Condor. The UK government pretended they couldn't give financial help to Flybe, and will doubtless claim the same for other British airlines, blaming "EU regulations" yet other EU states have no issues in assisting their industries. It's just that when it comes down to it the UK government cares only about one sector - financial services.

Many EU nations ignore EU law while the UK obeys it.

[SWBKCB]

Many EU nations ignore EU law while the UK obeys it.

Yawn - let's get back on topic.

[LTNman]

It was on topic, you just didn’t like the answer.

[ATNotts]

Many EU nations ignore EU law while the UK obeys it.

The difference actually was more nuanced than that. The UK followed the rules to the letter, other nations take a more pragmatic interpretation. If they broke the rules they can, and often are sanctioned.

[737James]

I note with interest that TUi are sending emails and then calling all customers booked on holidays and cruises departing upto 30th June 2020 to give them the option of moving their holiday to a later date free of charge.

I have a holiday to Cyprus on 29th June and the advisor I spoke to said most people for June were moving to later 2020 or onto 2021, I wonder with the current doubt over when travel advice will be lifted whether Tui are looking at not operating any holidays until July which as well will help with the Max issues as its another few months less they have to pay leasing costs for alternative aircraft.

[Vokes55]

Seems sensible, and realistic. Less chance of having to plan flights and pre pay for hotel rooms only to cancel holidays at short notice, fills aircraft and rooms after “normality” has resumed and keeps the money in the company.

[Smudge's Lot]

Entire fleet to be grounded within 7 days, Most staff on a 50% pay cut

[SeaBreeze1]

An excellent result from our management and union reps - working together to avoid redundancies :D

[boeing_eng]

An excellent result from our management and union reps - working together to avoid redundancies

Hear hear! :D:D

[pabloc]

An excellent result from our management and union reps - working together to avoid redundancies

Hear hear! :D:D
unless you are a re-entrant and have had your contract terminated 😩😩

[737James]

I have this evening had more evidence that TUI are looking at not operating until 01/07 a hotelier I have known for years has been asked about not starting the season until start of July this year

[ROC10]

I have this evening had more evidence that TUI are looking at not operating until 01/07 a hotelier I have known for years has been asked about not starting the season until start of July this year

That sure is a long time but based on the current situation it really isn't too surprising. If they put a solid plan in place to cease operations until July and are able to sustain themselves for that long, it may save them a lot of uncertainty in the coming weeks and months, where (if travel is allowed/feasible) demand is likely to be near-zero and there will be the risk of sudden shutdowns etc.

[ROC10]

Anyone know why TUI have been operating some of their LGW-bound flights into STN? It doesn't seem to be for storage reasons (yet) as they are being used the following day. Two 757s went into STN on Tuesday night, one flew empty from STN to collect pax and returned to LGW but the other positioned STN-MAN on Wednesday morning before operating a rescue flight from there. Tonight's AGA-LGW and SID-LGW are both routing to STN according to FR24.

[MARKEYD]

Anything could happen at the moment that nobody can explain , or really cares about

Strange times , bigger things to worry about to
be honest

[TartinTon]

Anyone know why TUI have been operating some of their LGW-bound flights into STN? It doesn't seem to be for storage reasons (yet) as they are being used the following day. Two 757s went into STN on Tuesday night, one flew empty from STN to collect pax and returned to LGW but the other positioned STN-MAN on Wednesday morning before operating a rescue flight from there. Tonight's AGA-LGW and SID-LGW are both routing to STN according to FR24.

Probably a combination of where aircraft/crew need to be for the next days flying. Pax are getting back to the UK so doubt they are that bothered given the current situation.

[boeing_eng]

ROC10....Give it a rest! Your obsession with TUI delays and unscheduled movements needs to take a back seat (and soon will anyway!)

[pamann]

From what I've understood, Gatwick is currently closed to arrivals after midnight.

[ericlday]

B) from: 20/03/19 23:59c) to: 20/03/28 06:00e) ad not avbl except to emergency traffic onlyschedule: 2359-0600

[ROC10]

From what I've understood, Gatwick is currently closed to arrivals after midnight.

Thanks, that’ll be why. Surprising that LGW is closed but not other smaller airports.

[ROC10]

ROC10....Give it a rest! Your obsession with TUI delays and unscheduled movements needs to take a back seat (and soon will anyway!)

No need to be hostile...

Of course my sympathies go out to all affected and I hope that some degree of normality is resumed sooner rather than later. It doesn’t mean questions can’t be asked on an online forum. If people can’t post on here for fear of being attacked then it could soon be a very quiet place...

[flyerguy]

Thanks, that’ll be why. Surprising that LGW is closed but not other smaller airports.

Probably an internal decision to save costs

[AirportPlanner1]

Thanks, that’ll be why. Surprising that LGW is closed but not other smaller airports.

In STN’s case they have a number of freight movements. This will probably become the busiest period over next few months

[ATNotts]

In STN’s case they have a number of freight movements. This will probably become the busiest period over next few months

EMA also, still very busy overnight, at least judging from the traffic overhead our house during the hours of darkness.

[rog747]

TUI has been giving stranded Easy Jet pax a ride home ...well done TUI

[ATNotts]

TUI has been giving stranded Easy Jet pax a ride home ...well done TUI

Is that "giving" or "selling" (at a reasonable cost)?

[casadave]

Earlier this week when TFS was rammed with stranded pax, TUI departed with empty seats so no assistance - apparently, Jet2 however have gone way over and beyond to assist...

[Vokes55]

Earlier this week when TFS was rammed with stranded pax, TUI departed with empty seats so no assistance - apparently, Jet2 however have gone way over and beyond to assist...

Can we give the Jet2 ass licking on this forum a rest for just one day?

[LBAflyer22]

Can we give the Jet2 ass licking on this forum a rest for just one day?

Let's not start going for one another. Really let's not.

[Buster the Bear]

EI-FHH (G-TUKC) Boeing 737-800 positioned into Lasham today in full TUI colours.

[VentureGo]

Copied from Newcastle thread re. Tui movements from Sunwing, Canada.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamNCL View Post (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599768-newcastle-9-a-post10725227.html#post10725227)
4x TUI 738s heading to NCL for storage from Canada.

VentureGo
All expected to arrive at NCL between 7.50 and 10pm this evening.from Ottawa and Montreal
Flight nos. SWG/WG 9084/9080/9082/9086.
Reg: G-TAWN/G-TAWW/G-TAWO/G-FDZY respectively. Hybrid Sunwing TUI livery except G-TAWW which is full TUI livery.

Also C-GNVR (OK-TVR SmartWings) returning as SWG9306 to Prague (expected circa. 8.45pm this evening)

[ROC10]

Current state of the short-haul fleet (787s are still flying for now):

Boeing 737-800
G-FDZB: NCL
G-FDZD: GLA
G-FDZF: LGW
G-FDZR: FAO (diverted whilst operating BHX-ACE on 22 Mar)
G-FDZS: DSA
G-FDZT: BRS
G-FDZU: NCL
G-FDZX: Sunwing
G-FDZY: NCL
G-FDZZ: BHX
G-TAWA: Sunwing
G-TAWB: Sunwing
G-TAWC: BRS
G-TAWD: BRS
G-TAWF: DSA
G-TAWG: DSA
G-TAWH: BRS
G-TAWI: LGW
G-TAWJ: MAN
G-TAWK: DUB (has been operating from DUB for Tui fly Nordic)
G-TAWL: LGW
G-TAWM: Sunwing
G-TAWN: NCL
G-TAWO: NCL
G-TAWS: STN
G-TAWU: LTN
G-TAWV: BHX
G-TAWW: NCL
G-TAWX: GLA

Boeing 757-200
G-BYAY: GLA
G-OOBA: BHX
G-OOBB: MAN
G-OOBC: LGW
G-OOBD: LGW
G-OOBE: LGW
G-OOBF: BHX
G-OOBN: MAN
G-OOBP: LTN

Boeing 767-300
G-OBYG: MAN
G-OBYH: MAN

[inOban]

TUI are being bailed out by the German government.

[pabely]

TUI are being bailed out by the German government.
To the tune if 1.8B euros!

[AIRBUSNNS17]

EI-FHH (G-TUKC) Boeing 737-800 positioned into Lasham today in full TUI colours.

A6-FDG spotted in Shannon in full TUI colours as well. It will become G-TUKG

[SeaBreeze1]

TUI are being bailed out by the German government.

Supported. Rather than "bailed out" :O

[ROC10]

I see that TOM are operating LGW-MEX tonight. I assume they have managed to pick up some business repatriating people. They operated LGW-MRS-LGW and MAN-MRS-LHR-MAN a few days ago too.

[craigyton2]

I see that TOM are operating LGW-MEX tonight. I assume they have managed to pick up some business repatriating people. They operated LGW-MRS-LGW and MAN-MRS-LHR-MAN a few days ago too.

Also according to the database at work , there's is a flight operating MID to EMA then positions to LGW empty 2 hours later , down as TOM965 and to be operated by a B789.

[ROC10]

LGW-FAO-LGW today. I assume this is to drop off parts/engineers (I would hope crew have already been rescued but I don’t think they have by TOM aircraft) for G-FDZR which suffered an engine failure and diverted to FAO eight days ago. Jerhros has this aircraft down as being at DSA but I’d imagine it’s still in FAO as nothing suggests it left.

[JonnyH]

LGW-FAO-??? today. I assume this is to drop off parts/engineers (I would hope crew have already been rescued but I don’t think they have by TOM aircraft) for G-FDZR which suffered an engine failure and diverted to FAO eight days ago. Jerhros has this aircraft down as being at DSA but I’d imagine it’s still in FAO as nothing suggests it left.

G-TAWL operated this and yes it is still in FAO. Due to return within 24 hours.

[SealinkBF]

To the tune if 1.8B euros!

Story

https://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?c=setreg&region=2&m_id=_rnbdbb&w_id=37364&news_id=2042054

[stormin norman]

Currently I have been waiting for a total 9 hours to contact TUI to rebook a holiday.

I cannot access my booking on line to either amend or cancel

I and along with many others must be thinking 'Why bother '

Are they going bust ?

[loopylee]

Currently I have been waiting for a total 9 hours to contact TUI to rebook a holiday.

I cannot access my booking on line to either amend or cancel

I and along with many others must be thinking 'Why bother '

Are they going bust ?

Why would they be going bust?! 🙄
Its maybe because there are thousands of people trying to rebook their holiday and with the call centres severely cut due to social distancing, they’re prioritising people that are closest to going away!

[stormin norman]

What's social distancing got to do with answering a phone? You just move the phone or link in from home .
They are busy which is understandable but they should at least get their web site working correctly.

[lfc84]

What's social distancing got to do with answering a phone? You just move the phone or link in from home .
They are busy which is understandable but they should at least get their web site working correctly.
distancing in the offices results in fewer people on site

diverting a call centre to home is not a trivial task, particularly since call centre teams are unlikely to be remote workers until now

[MARKEYD]

What's social distancing got to do with answering a phone? You just move the phone or link in from home .
They are busy which is understandable but they should at least get their web site working correctly.

They like everyone else in this country are trying there best in this terrible time

Think you seriously need to cut them some slack while they try and do there job under very trying times

[double-oscar]

The header on the TUI website explains that the company is giving priority to contacting customers who were due to travel before 18th April. It also asks customers not to telephone the company and thanks them for their patience in these trying times. The retail shops are currently closed and as they were used to deal with the overflow of calls to the call centres the company has lost significant capacity. To work from home you would need access to the company systems and this might be difficult as customer data needs to be protected.

[Travel Agent]

On the trade side of things the majority of calls are answered by an Indian call centre which is likely to be closed now due to complete lockdown out there, not sure if that is used by direct customers too, hence long wait times.

[Buster the Bear]

German Govt has made 1.4bn Euro available to TUI as loans.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Tui UK is to furlough 11,000 staff in the UK, including almost 4,500 retail agents, the remaining 6,545 staff are from cabin crew, pilots, and staff in retail and head office functions.
Tui employs a total of 13,200 employees in the UK.

[paully]

I wonder if their cruise division( Marella), which must be a money pit, gets closed down. Its got to be a prime candidate with an ageing fleet of old tubs, maintenance, crew and fuel hungry. That way the rest of it would be in a better position to survive.

[ImPlaneCrazy]

I wonder if their cruise division( Marella), which must be a money pit, gets closed down. Its got to be a prime candidate with an ageing fleet of old tubs, maintenance, crew and fuel hungry. That way the rest of it would be in a better position to survive.

I think you'll find the Cruise element of the business is actually far more profitable than say, the Airline which is also full of tubs (not so old), maintenance, crew & fuel hungry. :ok:

[H44]

Maybe it is more profitable, maybe it isn’t. There’s a lot of smoke and mirrors going on in the TUI group to show the profit being made where they want it to appear. The source markets and airlines have always been shown to be less profitable than cruises and destination services, but without the airlines, where would the cruise ships get their passengers?

[pabloc]

Tui UK is to furlough 11,000 staff in the UK, including almost 4,500 retail agents, the remaining 6,545 staff are from cabin crew, pilots, and staff in retail and head office functions.
Tui employs a total of 13,200 employees in the UK.

they haven’t furloughed re-entrant cabin crew, that have had two or three seasons of flying for Tui but returned ,had their refresher courses given their rosters , then told not needed now ,goodbye!!.

[inOban]

I think that you can only furlough those who were already employees on February 29th.

[inOban]

Maybe it is more profitable, maybe it isn’t. There’s a lot of smoke and mirrors going on in the TUI group to show the profit being made where they want it to appear. The source markets and airlines have always been shown to be less profitable than cruises and destination services, but without the airlines, where would the cruise ships get their passengers?
The same will be true for all multinational companies. Ensure that the profits mysteriously appear where there is little or no tax. Since the the ships operate on the high seas, particularly easy

[ZULUBOY]

I was due to fly with Tui (flight only) on Sunday. Should I still sit tight and wait for them to call me or should I now be trying to give them a call to get a refund?