Newcastle-9

[Beatts]

Celebrated the 4 millionth passenger of 2017 today.

[HH6702]

EasyJet march-June 2018 goes on sale tomorrow morning not expecting any changes ?

[DanAir89]

Celebrated the 4 millionth passenger of 2017 today.

Wouldn't have been to/from Bristol as the only flight is at around 9pm🙁,l'll get my coat before it all (unnecessarily) kicks off again....

[tigertanaka]

I'm not sure these days what say airports actually have in a route network.

I'm sure Newcastle would love to have 3 daily returns to Bristol,Belfast,Stansted Gatwick and now Copenhagen et al...the airlines do the sums(apparently) and think Bristol to Poland ( that's a pick out of the sky BTW) makes them more money than a short haul routes with a potential of 200k passengers per year?, and that was Copenhagen as well ??
Now the common denominator is...EZY !!

Not sure what the answer is..we are all armchair CEOs. But without being parochial..this is the NE backwater!

No hope south of the region in DTV..at least Ncl is on the up again.

I am sure they have very little say in the routes they operate unless they are providing some subsidy in one form or another. However airports can encourage airlines by analysing their local market demands in detail and putting forward a case for a new destination.

The armchair CEO comment is absolutely spot on for this forum. Whilst we all have our opinions, posters would do well to remember that airlines have a mountain of data and teams of analysts to help them in their route planning (I'm no expert but off the top of my head: demographics, historical demand, business/tourism potential, load factor, yield, trolley sales, cargo potential, length of flight, turnaround time, landing fees, government taxes, cannibalisation of existing routes, competitor presence, crewing, not to mention aircraft availability)

Hey, MME beat NCL to a flight to NWI...!

[DanAir89]

I am sure they have very little say in the routes they operate unless they are providing some subsidy in one form or another. However airports can encourage airlines by analysing their local market demands in detail and putting forward a case for a new destination.

The armchair CEO comment is absolutely spot on for this forum. Whilst we all have our opinions, posters would do well to remember that airlines have a mountain of data and teams of analysts to help them in their route planning (I'm no expert but off the top of my head: demographics, historical demand, business/tourism potential, load factor, yield, trolley sales, cargo potential, length of flight, turnaround time, landing fees, government taxes, cannibalisation of existing routes, competitor presence, crewing, not to mention aircraft availability)

Hey, MME beat NCL to a flight to NWI...!

All the educated accountants on here missed the vital point re BRS. It was traveller feedback/real life experiences and an expression that they had paid more than £25.99 each way therefore were prepared to pay more for a direct service at more convenient times - profitability is stating the bleeding obvious!

Given the number of airlines that have fallen by the way side due to massive losses and no cash it's a hard business so unless you have the relevant experience in running a profitable airline your comments are no more informed!

Spotters comments, no mention of aircraft regs😀

[highwideandugly]

Interesting. I never really understand yield?? Ok so Newcastle Bristol is sold at 29.99. And they get 100k passengers per year. And they scrap it. So. Why not try to sell for a year at 59.99. Give it a try...I'm sure EK77WNCL amongst many others..inc.me would use it

Am I missing something? Give it a go with increased fares..surely?? These low cost carriers are so blinkered....

[Flightrider]

If you look at some of the easyJet domestic routes like NCL/BRS and GLA/BFS, they are effectively flying now at peak times only - Monday morning, Thu/Fri/Sun night and a much reduced frequency at other times of the week. It is only on very high volume routes or those with direct competition that you will find what historically would have been considered to be a business schedule.

In effect, the easyJet aircraft is fulfilling the equivalent of the National Express bus to allow business commuters, VFR passengers, students, wedding/hen/stag parties to travel at the times they are most likely to want to. If you can make more by flying a single NCL/FAO rotation on a Thursday morning versus a NCL/BRS and a NCL/BFS roundtrip in the same time slot, then you will. Into that equation, you not only have to consider yield but the likelihood of passengers booking hold baggage and spending on board - both of which are likely to be higher on the FAO given length of flight and length of stay than the BRS + BFS rotations combined.

[DanAir89]

After some constructive feedback, check out the twice daily service to brs on wed and thurs next year!

[HH6702]

Lol.
Who would have thought that management took advice from this forum

Who we going to start on next !!!

[EK77WNCL]

The Saturday morning flight also starts a few weeks earlier than it has in previous years, this is normally on an A320 and normally rather full from my experience.

Very good news that EZY has increased frequency... Times are still a bit sh*t, but it's a good move in the right direction and I'm pleased to see it!

[highwideandugly]

Don't know how it works..someone might offer help..is it a couple of well meaning guys in planning/ops/finance .or do they really look at the These routes.

Newcastle to Bristol merits at least 3 returns per day..just look at rail figures,probable car journeys and definitely air passengers in the past.
Yield again...just up the prices..they will still come!!!
Rocket science?? I think not...

[tigertanaka]

Prices do seem low on NCL-BRS compared to the train. The cheapest rail tickets seem to be around £120 return for a 5 hour direct journey whilst you can take the flight for under £70 return and this includes £26 APD! A short notice example for a business trip next Monday morning, returning Tuesday evening shows a flight cost of £108 but the train will cost double that and would take much longer.

[VentureGo]

Have easyJet stopped flying to Split from NCL? I'm sure it was available earlier this year.

[NorthEasterner]

Split only operates until 17th September.

[Beatts]

How come the old thread closed and moved to this? I am new to PPrune so sorry if this sounds dumb!

[VentureGo]

Split only operates until 17th September.

Yes, - Sorry I meant Split does not appear on the easyJet booking tool for Summer 2018, so has this route been dropped from Newcastle for Next Year

[HH6702]

Does it not start end of June so will be released with the next lot?
I'm sure thomson have a seat allocation on it could be wrong

[skyman771]

How come the old thread closed and moved to this? I am new to PPrune so sorry if this sounds dumb!

Yep you are now close to celebrity status! :uhoh:

On a more relevant point, then note all the comment on where & when EZY should fly, whether one agrees or otherwise with individual comments, then the whole assessment as to what is profitable, yields etc. appear to be put forward with a somewhat parochial view as to EZY's operations.
EZY is a large EU wide operation & whilst a route may be dropped that is profitable, then one presumes that this is because it has been calculated that on aggregate over a set period, greater revenue can be obtained by that aircraft elsewhere.
The main restriction such an ideal scenario is that in such a fixed period then aircraft / crews are "based" & as such route flexibility is then limited. The result is that it is easy to identify a particular route / timing as being "profitable" but to achieve requires available aircraft capacity.
Everyone would love to see their required route leave at a peak hour, but this also is not possible.
Maybe time to give NCL - BRS a rest, after all EZY have run it in past at varying times & frequencies & it is down to their detailed route / revenue knowledge rather than that of individuals limited assessment that the route has to fit in as it does.

[Beatts]

Interesting, Thomas Cook operating a W pattern flight using based ac for Leeds to Antalya next summer.

[NorthEasterner]

Does it not start end of June so will be released with the next lot?
I'm sure thomson have a seat allocation on it could be wrong

Yes, TUI along with others sell seats on SPU bundled in the package deals.

[EK77WNCL]

I was wondering about Split, I couldn't remember whether it started late May or late June last year. Either way, I know it's a short season. Hope to see it come back!

Completely understand skyman's point and he's exactly right. In any situation, the routes/schedules proposed are almost guaranteed to require a 4th based frame. I still do hope this will happen, because a lot of new routes would then become viable (Either that or operated by "away" frames as opposed to "home" frames)

Fortunately (or unfortunately, as the case may be) it would seem that easyJet has hit a profitable sweet spot at Newcastle. They could probably still make money bringing in a 4th or even 5th A319/20 and bringing back Amsterdam, Venice, Munich, Milan, Copenhagen, Budapest, Ibiza, am Bristol rotations, Gatwick/Stansted and the like... But they make *more* money plying ALC, AGP, FAO, PMI daily, and operating "optimised" BRS/BFS flights... Which is why 50% of EZY's BFS rotations are on Friday and Sunday alone.

On BRS/BFS, EZY cater for the VFR market, and an extremely limited amount of flexible business traffic. It makes sense, but it's still rather frustrating for the regular users. More so for those that used to take advantage of the day returns on offer before the turn of the decade

I live in hope... One day, someone might take a leap of faith and I hope it pays off for them. With TFS, CFU, RHO, SPU, SXF and the new BRS schedule, things are certainly looking up, but it'll be a matter of how far they're willing to go with it

[LiamNCL]

Interesting, Thomas Cook operating a W pattern flight using based ac for Leeds to Antalya next summer.

Looks like other bases doing similar W patterns for AYT aswell

[NorthEasterner]

Gdansk timings are changing from beginning of the winter season on the Friday. New timings are 19.15 GDN Dep 20.30 NCL Arr -- 20.55 NCL Dep with a 00.10 GDN Arr

Not sure if any others routes have been changed.

[Jamesair]

Easyjet summer schedules from 24th June.....release date is 27th Sept.

[EK77WNCL]

Is that earlier than usual? I thought it was always a bit of a wait between March-June and June onwards

[Jamesair]

I think you are probably right but that's the release date shown on the EZY website.

[skyman771]

Ref EZY, I've done a few SXF trips of late & they appear to have German FA's.
Are these flights also SXF based frames ?
If so, is this type of operation becoming more frequent at NCL & thus assisting expansion given that based frames are fully utilized.
In winter I often use the GVA flights & note that GVA appears a large EZY base. To my knowledge this flight has always run as part of NCL based operations.
Are many EZY flights out of NCL operated by non based aircraft & if so is this seasonal ?

[VentureGo]

Last few times I've been to Geneva, Return flight on Saturday has been on a Bristol based a/c & crew, who were the returning to GVA then finishing their day from GVA to BRS

[mockingjay]

SXF is, BRS is in Summer but it reverts to NCL crews in winter. I'm 90% sure in previous years the evening GVA on a Saturday was GVA crews.

There was talk of BFS and BRS being crewed by their based aircraft allowing NCL based planes and crews to fly new routes or increase frequencies. I've not had a look to see yet but from what I gather it's just BRS in summers that are operated by BRS based crews. No sign of BFS yet.

It seems BFS has an extra craft based there from next year, so who knows. I'm sure BFS is a nice littler for the NCL base, so long may it continue to be a NCL based route.

[GrahamK]

SXF is indeed operated by the SXF base.
GVA is AFAIK a NCL based op which often does a W into BOH

[nclops]

The SXF flights are all operated by SXF based A/C. The late evening BRS is operated by BRS based A/C and some of the BFS flights are operated by BFS based A/C. The GVA flights on a Saturday during the winter are operated by a NCL based A/C for the morning flight but the evening flight comes through as a W pattern from another base, not sure which base through.

[tigertanaka]

Easyjet summer schedules from 24th June.....release date is 27th Sept.

Good info. If this has date has been brought forwards, I assume this is U2 trying to capitalise on the problems at FR.

Some very good deals on U2 if you can get in early. Last week I snagged flights from NCL to PMI over Easter including seats for £40 each return and NCL-JER over the May bank holiday weekend for £60 each return.

[VentureGo]

The GVA flights on a Saturday during the winter are operated by a NCL based A/C for the morning flight but the evening flight comes through as a W pattern from another base, not sure which base through.

I was returning on the Saturday evening GVA flight (March), operated by Bristol a/c & crew which was then returning to Geneva before finishing their day on a last leg GVA to Bristol - The W pattern you mention above.

[milhouse999]

Thomas Cook seem to have dropped their extra NCL-CFU flights that were meant to be running throughout next summer on a Thursday evening.

Just tried to book and they're not on their website anymore.

[LiamNCL]

Extra ZTH also dropped in favour of extra DLM / AYT & NBE

[milhouse999]

Interesting.... advertise a new schedule for 2018 then bin it a week later.

I was about to book one of the Thursday night flights the other day too, as we do NCL-CFU about 5 times a year and it fitted in perfectly with our work schedule! Glad I didn't!

[LiamNCL]

Agree there is alot of fiddling going on with schedules at the moment seat maps look out of date still aswell not sure we even have a A320 here next summer

[VentureGo]

Danish Air Transport DX961 (ATR42-500 reg. OY-RUO) from CPH landed at 16.14. Leaving NCL for STN at 18:00 as DX5611. Is this an ad hoc charter or to ferry a/c - Listed on FR24 and Newcastle Airport's Departure Board as scheduled.

[SWBKCB]

Sunderland AFC to play Ipswich tomorrow.

[GrahamK]

Problems with this morning WMI arrival? It's been holding overheat at 10,000ft for the past 20 mins, along with the FR LearJet at 15,000ft.

[Chesty Morgan]

It's foggy.

[N707ZS]

Ryanair diverting to Scotland when DTVA is open just down the road!

[LiamNCL]

Dense fog visibilty down to around 200 metres

[NorthEasterner]

The WMI flight then positioned back to NCL empty with crews to carry out the NCL-WMI leg. The learjet also positioned back with relief crew for the 2 Ryanair LPL based aircraft,

[jensdad]

Ryanair diverting to Scotland when DTVA is open just down the road!


I guess that'll just be because Ryanair have a 'station' at EDI or GLA or wherever it went, making things easier for them handling-wise.
I agree though, that the decline of Teesside Airport is very sad indeed. :( A Ryanair station long before Newcastle was.

[NorthEasterner]

Was DTV called Newcastle-South by any chance :}

Diverted to Prestwick, the aircraft then flew back to NCL.

Presumably easier to go to PIK, knowing it will be quieter than EDI/GLA at the time of day.

[VentureGo]

Newcastle had also taken in at least two Ryanair Diversions destined for Liverpool and one Jet 2 scheduled to Leeds Bradford due to fog at those airports earlier.
Wonder if DTV was equipped (Fire/Emergency/Border staff etc...) to take 737s and logistics for onward transition of passengers at the times all this played out?

[fl dutchman]

Was the Ryanair flight to Gdansk due to fly throughout the winter? as it seems to be not bookable now.

[HH6702]

They seem to be pulling BFS-LGW for the winter let's hope they aren't pulling anything from ncl

[nclops]

Looks like the FAO is no longer bookable as well

[Jamesair]

Easyjet for summer is Alicante (6wkly), Barcelona (4), Belfast (19), Berlin (3), Bristol (14), Faro (5), Geneva (2), Malaga (6), Split (2), Corfu (1), Jersey(4) Palma (7), Nice(4), Malta(2) and Rhodes(1) total of 80 flts a week. An expansion of 6 flts per week over this summer.

Nothing new yet but Palma has two flights on Mondays and none on Saturdays.

[HH6702]

Thanks for the easyjet update.

[EK77WNCL]

I think GDN/FAO cancellations over the winter may be due to the crewing shortage/roster cock up, Ryanair is cutting 34 routes and 18,000 flights between October and March

[LiamNCL]

It is indeed down to the recent issues, routes return early spring

[SWBKCB]

While there will be a degree of pragmatism around which routes have been cut, it won't be the high performers :(

[EK77WNCL]

I find it interesting that some of their "important" routes, such as BFS-LGW, EDI/GLA-STN and WMI-WRO/GDN are among the routes cancelled

[BAladdy]

FR had already announced that they were dropping WMI-GDN and WMI-WRO due to a disagreement with the warsaw airport authority

Ryanair to drop flights from Warsaw to Gda?sk, Wroc?aw: report - Radio Poland :: News from Poland (http://thenews.pl/1/12/Artykul/325783,Ryanair-to-drop-flights-from-Warsaw-to-Gdansk-Wroclaw-report)

[NorthEasterner]

Thats mainly due to WAW (Chopin) airport authority - not crewing issues.

Newcastle route flies into/from WMI (Modlin)

[SealinkBF]

I find it interesting that some of their "important" routes, such as BFS-LGW, EDI/GLA-STN and WMI-WRO/GDN are among the routes cancelled

For the domestic routes, because there is an another airline to accommodate pax it might have made the decision easier.

[01475]

Or the fact that they had heavy competition may have made the routes among the most marginal.

[mr_moose]

Number of bookings is probably the main factor - they tend to not get huge number of bookings on these flights until the couple of weeks before the flight - so fewer would be affected. Also many alternatives from London area, including flights, coach and the train.

[Beatts]

Newcastle Airport passenger numbers soar as city breaks and winter sun trips increase - Chronicle Live (http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/business/business-news/newcastle-airport-passenger-numbers-soar-13706489)

[Jamesair]

I notice both of the KLM Amsterdam flights have been cancelled tomorrow morning....anyone know why?

[SWBKCB]

From the home page of the KLM website

Amsterdam - Unfavourable wind conditions expected
Due to unfavourable wind conditions expected in Amsterdam on Thursday 05 October 2017, some of our flight schedules to, from or via Amsterdam Airport Schiphol may be disrupted. We apologise for the inconvenience

[HH6702]

Monarch effects on newcastle ( short/long term)

With monarch gone how will this effect newcastle?

I know they weren't based at newcastle but pax from the north east will have travelled
To Leeds Manchester for cheaper fares.

Will the other carriers now fill the gaps at man,BHX etc or will fares increase to make better profit margins will may stop north east pax travelling south?

Will airlines now focus on putting planes and routes into Manchester to increase options rather than start any planned routes which were from newcastle ( Ryanair)

Will Ryanair and easyJet now look at putting extra flights into Manchester so ncl has to wait longer ?

The last big failure I can remember was excel which effected ncl and we are only now getting back to the pax numbers and it's taken 10 years!!

TCX have said they will base 1 aircraft at LBA now replacing 1 of the 2 aircraft monarch had which is why I'm asking the questions on how this may effect ncl over the next few seasons

[SWBKCB]

Could go that way, or it could be that MAN has been oversupplied and the existing airlines will consolidate and not look to replace MON capacity to try and increase yields. This may help NCL as prices at MAN (and LBA) creep up.

[LiamNCL]

Not much of an effect IMO Jet2 EZY TCX may base an extra aircraft here or there but that will be about it. With TCX basing a aircraft down in LBA it may even benefit NCL if they choose to base for example the Avion A320 there and we end up with x3 A321. Excel was a big player here at the time and obviously really effected us as other bases like BHX will feel now Monarchs collapse.

[Beatts]

Interesting to see that BA is reducing frequencies next Summer at BHD, EDI and GLA. Newcastle seem to be the same for the moment though.

[chaps1954]

To be honest about loss of Monarch I think most of MAN routes will be gaining extra Easy and Jet2 with probably 5 or 6 aircraft added and Jet2 look to be adding another A330 but I would guess flights more expensive than this year

[GrahamK]

TUI have added Dubrovnik for next summer

[CabinCrewe]

Interesting to see that BA is reducing frequencies next Summer at BHD, EDI and GLA. Newcastle seem to be the same for the moment though.
For GLA just a single early sun AM rotation per week, no great loss I wouldnt imagine.

[VentureGo]

Newcastle holidaymakers terrified as plane forced to make emergency landing after pilot collapsed - Chronicle Live (http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/newcastle-holidaymakers-terrified-plane-forced-13746679)

[Beatts]

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/flybe-q400-tail-strike-traced-to-excessive-power-red-442115/

[ash666]

Does AF/KLM have an info desk at the airport?
I've just had an email my flight has been changed and shows me the original and new flights and they look identical?

[canberra97]

I have had previous emails from British Airways in the past and I have just turned up at the airport as usual after checking in online before departing home so I would assume this is similar to yourself, just check the KLM website using your reference to check your active flight details.

[ash666]

Ok, ta.
I did that but can't see the difference to the cancelled and active flight apart from losing my seat booking.
It's the 2nd leg from CDG that has been "changed".
I sent a pm to AF's Facebook page but they haven't bothered replying.
Wish I'd used KLM again.....

[tigertanaka]

Ok, ta.
I did that but can't see the difference to the cancelled and active flight apart from losing my seat booking.
It's the 2nd leg from CDG that has been "changed".
I sent a pm to AF's Facebook page but they haven't bothered replying.
Wish I'd used KLM again.....

You could try calling AF?

[ash666]

Never too sure if I will get through to Paris, ouch.

I sent a pm to KLM on FB and they have replied already asking for more details.
They are so much better than AF at communicating.

Mind, it would still be nice to know if they have an info desk at NCL. They used to but not so sure now.

[Travel Agent]

Can't remember seeing one on a recent visit... Could you not just call the airport switchboard and ask the question?

[ash666]

Can't remember seeing one on a recent visit... Could you not just call the airport switchboard and ask the question?

Good idea! (said seriously, not sarcastically).

[NorthEasterner]

Swissport ticket desk may be able to help. But most cases they are limited to what they can do and redirect everyone to the airline’s website.

[GrahamK]

ash666, could it be an aircraft type change?

What flight are you on?

[ash666]

I'm on AF166 and it looks the same layout from re-booking my seat, still a 777-300ER.

KLM on Facebook were great but had no idea why I got the alert.

AF never bothered replying.

[GrahamK]

The NCL flights are now a mix of E170/190 for the winter rather than all E1o0. Maybe something to do with that?

[ash666]

Thanks for your input and help.
It was the long haul bit that changed.

I had to re-book the seat on that plane but I had another look yesterday and my booked seat on the CDG-NCL had gone.
I also sent another message to AF via Facebook and again no reply. They may think it's not important to reply to queries but it means I won't ever fly with them again.

I will attempt to send an image....
http://i588.photobucket.com/albums/ss327/yankamolarout/General/Air%20France%20changeB.jpg (http://s588.photobucket.com/user/yankamolarout/media/General/Air%20France%20changeB.jpg.html)

[Jamesair]

Sept stats now on airport website. Total pax 585,498 (534,516 Sept.16)

[ash666]

I still think it's a shame there's not a metro train that will get there for the 4.30am check-ins/bag drops for the busy 6am(ish) flights.

[VentureGo]

Boeing 777-35R (ER) just landed (11am) from Stansted (FR24) No reg or any other info and not listed on Newcastle Arrivals page.

[SWBKCB]

The usual Middle Eastern visitors

[Jamesair]

The clue was in the recent exotic helicopter movements

[NorthEasterner]

The Prince and his family paying a visit to their Northumberland estate. Hopefully they have a nice time in this miserable weather!

[LiamNCL]

Royal VIPs, There was a 777-200 in aswell as the 77W

[EK77WNCL]

There was a 77W, 77E and BBJ

It's a different family to the usual visitors... Maybe they got jealous of the Dubai lot coming over here all the time and wanted a piece of the Northumberland action!

[ash666]

Maybe they came on chance, just in case there was a football team in the area they could buy.

[LiamNCL]

This was Abu Dhabi Amiri flight and not the regular Dubai air wing. Increased speculation of middle east investment in Newcastle United FC so watch this space.

[Beatts]

Leeds Bradford Airport sold to Australian investment fund - Yorkshire Post (http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/transport/leeds-bradford-airport-sold-to-australian-investment-fund-1-8811675)

Interesting News from our neighbour. Wonder how this will effect route competition etc.

[VentureGo]

Same Australian fund [AMP Capital] which took over share in Newcastle Airport and where former CEO Dave Laws (now CEO at Leeds Bradford Airport) also took up a role as a part-time Senior Adviser in its international airports business.
Just who is retiring Newcastle Airport boss David Laws? - Chronicle Live (http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/just-who-retiring-newcastle-airport-11170075)

Second from last paragraph from above article:
Now, after 37 highly successful years, Mr Laws is taking a part-time role at AMP Capital as a part-time Senior Adviser in its international airports business.Note some comments following article are not favourable of Mr Laws!

Not sure if Dave Laws is also still advising AMP Capital.

[VentureGo]

The 2 Abu Dhabi Amiri 777s departing Newcastle earlier today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5Rcu4hmjaI

Credit to You Tube Poster Jonathan Winton

[HH6702]

Winter 2018/19 should go on sale this week.

New routes from TUI/TCX maybe??

[bigjim99]

EI down to 1 daily from next week, sadly losing the early morning feeder for transatlantic. Shame, was really pulling the numbers in recent weeks despite FR price war.

Stobarts moving an extra ATR to SEN with NCL drawing the short straw.

[EK77WNCL]

Well, just have to hope Ryanair gets round to sorting connections out across Dublin and tweaks the flight times

Past history probably suggests that as soon as Ryanair make a move, EI will follow... Then pull again

[GrahamK]

FlyBe operating the NCL-SZG on a saturday for TUI next summer.
NCL-SZG 0800-11:45 BE9231
SZG-NCL 12:25-14:30 BE9232

It seems that TUI have dropped Faro as well?

[NCL-TRC]

EI down to 1 daily from next week, sadly losing the early morning feeder for transatlantic. Shame, was really pulling the numbers in recent weeks despite FR price war.

Stobarts moving an extra ATR to SEN with NCL drawing the short straw.

Provisionally seems to remain at one daily 1045 departure for next summer too, think it’s time the airport did something to stem the loss of scheduled carriers, first SAS, EI down to one daily, who’s next Eurowings?

[bigjim99]

Provisionally seems to remain at one daily 1045 departure for next summer too, think it’s time the airport did something to stem the loss of scheduled carriers, first SAS, EI down to one daily, who’s next Eurowings?


Chopping and changing frequencies/times does nothing except kill once feasible routes - I'd have hoped Stobart would have learnt by now.

It's a ruddy nightmare for business travellers and a single mid day service will result in FR success, and I won't be surprised if STK retreat completely sadly.

[HH6702]

Flybe base timing??

Is aircraft doing SOU-NCL-SZG-NCL-SOU
or just positioning in to operate the 1 flight?

[EK77WNCL]

I'm assuming that NCL-SZG is going to be on an Embraer as opposed to a Dash?

Who's operating the Salzburg flight? TOM?

The FAO rotation has been replaced with a straight swap for SKG

[BAladdy]

I'm assuming that NCL-SZG is going to be on an Embraer as opposed to a Dash?

Who's operating the Salzburg flight? TOM?

The FAO rotation has been replaced with a straight swap for SKG
Based on the flight times of 2hr 45min outbound and 3hr 5 mins on the return on the SZG I would say it will not be operated by a Embraer. Could the flight end up being operated by a T3 S2000 on behalf of BE?.

[SWBKCB]

Bit of a drop from the B.734 used this year.

[HH6702]

Has there been poor loads this summer ?

[VentureGo]

Looks like KLM (PH-BGF) 737 has gone tech in NCL after landing as KL957 @approx 10am this morning. Outbound KL958 (should depart at 10.45 is showing an estimated delayed departure time as 21:00 (Over 10 hours delay)

[TheGeordielad]

Does anyone know how well these routes are doing passenger wise?
Berlin
Copenhagen
Dubai
Düsseldorf
Madrid

[tigertanaka]

Does anyone know how well these routes are doing passenger wise?
Berlin
Copenhagen
Dubai
Düsseldorf
Madrid

Stats are available on the CAA website

[NorthEasterner]

Berlin - varies - some days loads good, some days not so good.
Copenhagen - axed
Dubai - mainly consistent with previous years.
Dusseldorf - consistent - mainly onward connecting traffic.
Madrid - similar to Berlin but more consistent with higher loads.

A rough guide, take it with a pinch of salt.

[Travel Agent]

Nothing new from TC for winter 18/19 just ACE, FUE, HRG & TFS until April when they add AYT & NBE.

TUI are doing ALC, AGP, LPA, PFO & TFS. They add PMI in April.

[HH6702]

Such a shame it's always the same

[EK77WNCL]

I swear you it used to be the case that bookings only went 330 days out... And now I can book 18 months in advance? It's crazy!

I'm not surprised, Monarch's demise has likely meant that all of TCX/TOM/LS' future resources will be directed firmly into the South East and the Midlands... As if it wasn't already

With EZY adding extra frames at LPL and SEN... Perhaps we could feature in their expansion plans, but I'm not holding out for much more.

Disappointed not to see any new Ryanair additions as well

[Heathrow Harry]

"Such a shame it's always the same"

be careful what you wish for - a lot of airports are seeing a steady erosion of service.....

[HH6702]

Very true for what we wish for.
Just it seems that winter schedule from TUI/TCX Hasn't changed for years now.
Only new routes we have seen have been Ryanair coming in.
Surely people from the north east would like a greater choice in winter time from there local airport.

[EK77WNCL]

To be fair (touch wood) I'm really really impressed that, on the whole, Newcastle has managed to build up and maintain a sustainable and profitable service

I just think it's about nurturing and developing that sustainable base now... I'm realistic about what Newcastle can and can't do... Things that I think they can do in the next 5 years are:

- Another easyJet frame
- Another Jet2 frame or 2
- More long haul offering from Thomson with a based/part based 787 (x2 weekly regular Orlando/Cancun, weekly/bi-weekly Jamaica/Dominican Republic/Puerto Vallarta... Perhaps Cuba/Thailand in the long term) --- and/or seasonal long haul from TCX/VS
- FRANKFURT!!!
- Increase in Ryanair offering, and after brexit is ironed out, a potential base
- 4/5 weekly Turkish to Istanbul once the new airport opens

With a heavy heart, I don't think we'll see a second Emirates flight before the 15th anniversary... Based on their track record, I'd even hesitate to say that Qatar jumping in on our turf with an A32x neo or 737 MAX would be more likely than a second triple from Emirates

Although all of that sounds like a lot, and it is! It would still work out as much less expansion than the likes of Manchester, Luton and Edinburgh have seen, ans still probably less than, or in line with average UK expansion recently

[Callum Paterson]

You think Thailand is a realistic expectation from NCL? Behave.

[Heathrow Harry]

Manchester, Luton and Edinburgh...

Manchester is much bigger City than Newcastle

Luton is anoterh London airport

Edinburgh is a capital city with lots of tourist and financial traffic

NCL does very well IMHO - any other UK airport would kill for that daily flight to Dubai

Unless and until the NE becomes a lot richer you won't see many more flights

[VentureGo]

You think Thailand is a realistic expectation from NCL? Behave.
Can't see TUI doing Thailand (BKK) from NCL - Emirates fares have been around £460 - £480 via Dubai for the past year and connections are very easy also to HKT and the islands, Hua Hin etc...
I'd suggest Westbound routes which are under served for package breaks, and possibly Goa, India which we have had for a couple of seasons in the past from Caledonian.
Orlando could do with more operators for competition. We used to have at least 2 operators (Thomson and Thomas Cook forbears (Airtours) - Quite a few people I know travel via Manchester for price or packages via Virgin - Maybe Virgin could offer variety as well as competition.

[DanAir89]

Very true for what we wish for.
Just it seems that winter schedule from TUI/TCX Hasn't changed for years now.
Only new routes we have seen have been Ryanair coming in.
Surely people from the north east would like a greater choice in winter time from there local airport.
I agree. I used to find it frustrating that Thomson in particular didnt even juggle the schedule a little bit each year. (Pre kids) when looking for a winter break to the canaries at least 6 days offfwork was required because none of the flights were at weekends - even the Sunday TFS arrived back early Monday morning. Historically the older generation going to Benidorm for the winter wouldn’t have cared which day they flew on but there is a big group of workers who want a short winter break but to save as many days holiday for other times of the year.

I also agree that surely there are enough adventurous Geordies who would love to try somewher new such as Cape Verde in the winter. While I duck for cover as the inevitable “economics” are pointed out I do also wonder how much newcastle suffers from “regional prejudice” ie southern based planners thinking we’re just 30 mins from BHX so what does it matter (just like the dualling if the A1 - crying out to be done but not important enough for the people controlling the spending in London!!

[LiamNCL]

Could do with the A319 to A320.upgrade on EZY before a 4th aircraft IMO.

Thomas Cook i think apart from LGW and MAN we get basically the same routes as every other winter base its TUI im most dissapointed in i would of loved to see them do Winter KEF from Newcastle.

[jensdad]

In defence of EK77 I would say that Thailand is a place that is very popular with Scandinavians, but for some reason hasn't taken off as a 'mainstream' - if high-end - tourism destination from the UK. Tourist destinations come and go. I am old enough to remember when Rimini used to be popular from NCL, and only the truly adventurous went to Turkey. It won't happen next year but never say never.

[HH6702]

Airport have Las Vegas on the map but I'm guessing that would be summer only with TUI

[Falcon900LX]

TCX are planning a 2019 summer 1x weekly route to LAS however the flight would need to go via MAN for fuel.

With the Aer Lingus frequency dropping too, there could be a real market for a twice weekly US flight now but that ship has sailed, having seen the figures I'd say at least 75% of all Dublin pax are connecting to the US.

[chaps1954]

Just out of interest BKK is the highest unserved route from MAN so the pax are there

[EK77WNCL]

TUI don't fly to Vegas... It would be, at most, 2/3 charter flights with Thomas Cook or Virgin. Same as Jet2's New York flights

Thailand is becoming more and more popular, and I think people are starting to realise that it is more affordable than they expected. At most, we would be talking a fortnightly flight, say June-September (could work better as a winter seasonal flight though). That's 8-10 flights, 2400-3000 people. Probably about the same as Emirates alone carry from Newcastle - Thailand every month, never mind KLM, Air France and British airways. Not to mention the thousands per month that "leak" to Edinburgh, Manchester and Birmingham. So yes, Callum Paterson... I do think that Thailand is a realistic option in the coming years from Newcastle. VentureGo, TUI don't fly to Bangkok, so it would be NCL-HKT. Goa is a nice thought, but it was operated in the past on an A320, I don't think it would sustain a 787, even fortnightly. People are still quite reluctant to be as adventurous as India. It's difficult to convince a Geordie to go to Almeria instead of Benidorm!!!

DanAir89, I think you hit the nail on the head. I think some would certainly consider Cape Verde, and a weekly 737 out of Newcastle shouldn't be out of the question. But it's easier and less risk just to send it to Tenerife on another rotation. There is a lot of regional bias at play.

LiamNCL, I'm really surprised KEF didn't happen this winter to be honest. I live in hope! I'd use it if they offered it.

Heathrow Harry, I apologise; Liverpool, Bristol, Leeds, Doncaster, Belfast, Glasgow and Cardiff, then? We've been significantly behind all of them in growth for a number of years - I appreciate that they might not be delivering as much profit as NCL, but there is a bit of a blip in growth in the North East.

Sorry for being optimistic but I remember the "I'll give them 6 months" comments on Emirates

[ash666]

When I come back from BKK I see a fair few people from the long haul on the NCL hop.

It would be great for me personally to see a weekly or even fortnightly year round flight.

Does anyone anywhere do fortnightly flights?

What is the smallest plane that could do the distance in one go?

[LiamNCL]

TCX are planning a 2019 summer 1x weekly route to LAS however the flight would need to go via MAN for fuel.

With the Aer Lingus frequency dropping too, there could be a real market for a twice weekly US flight now but that ship has sailed, having seen the figures I'd say at least 75% of all Dublin pax are connecting to the US.

If the US direct isnt going to happen the airport should be nagging Icelandair or WOW air. Iceland could work really well for one stop and connecting traffic.

[ATNotts]

KEF, by Icelandair, appears far more realistic an aspiration than direct services to Thailand!

It would surprise me if the airport weren't talking to them as their hub at KEF serves so many destination in North America it would be a real boon for NCL.

[goldeneye]

Is WOW not a candidate for NCL with there ever expanding US and Canadian connections in KEF ?

[ATNotts]

If I were NCL I'd be looking to Icelandair with their far more comprehensive network, and more staying power in terms of market development. Also a better known brand in North America, and most probably in UK too.

If they couldn't be brought on board then 2nd choice would be WOW.

[EK77WNCL]

I will depend on if Icelandair get the right type of aircraft

The Dash is too small, slow and expensive for NCL-KEF, and the 757 is simply too big.

The 737MAX... Maybe, but still on the large side. I'm sure that if Icelandair had E-jets or Cseries, Newcastle would be one of the go to destinations

Ash666, our only option for a direct Thailand service is TUI on a 787. The 787 is the only one that can do 11 hours non-stop out of Newcastle

TUI do fortnightly flights to Orlando and Cancun from Newcastle, which I hope will increase to 2 weekly if growth continues. They all go out full as it is, and the ability of offering 10/11 night holidays alongside the current 7/14, could only be a good thing

I doubt I would trust WOW to stick out a full season, never mind year round

[ash666]

Thanks EK77.

I'm sure NCL could send 250 pax to Thailand fortnightly.

[10 DME ARC]

With the fares available and daily choice to Thailand via DXB with EK why would you want a charter flight!! Plus would damage EK loads!
If you look at the struggle NCL has had to keep other long haul charters I really cannot see it happening!!

[SWBKCB]

Aren't Cancun and Orlando weekly with TUI? I agree TUI is our best bet for any leisure long-haul, does anybody know whether TUI operate Thailand from any regional airports or is it just LGW and MAN? Also not convinced that a 787 could do 11 hours out of NCL.

I think that NCL is too far for the Icelandair dash 8's - ABZ and BHD are a stretch. Curious as to why TOM with the 738 and EZY 319/320's are regarded as suitable for KEF-NCL but the Icelandair MAX is too big? As WOW couldn't make BRS work, I agree that we wouldn't be on their radar.

Also once upon a time, BRS and NCL had very similar operations (though they'd kill for our legacy carriers :E) - the difference now shows clearly the impact of the size and wealth of the respective catchment areas

[AMM626]

does anybody know whether TUI operate Thailand from any regional airports or is it just LGW and MAN?

TUi are doing Birmingham to Phuket this winter.

For W18/19 Birmingham will see alternating Langkawi and Bangkok.

[HH6702]

Falcon900x

TCX planning 1x weekly summer 2019 to las vagas is that from Manchester or ncl?

[EK77WNCL]

HH6702, TCX already have regular flights from Manchester, Stansted and Glasgow to Las Vegas

SWBKCB, Orlando and Cancun are 1.5 weekly. Alternating fortnightly flights to each alongside the existing weekly flights.

The Dash could do Newcastle, but I think if it were to happen it would be a half arsed attempt for both sides. How is 3.5 hours on a Dash 8, across the Atlantic, supposed to be remotely competitive?

Re: EZY vs TOM vs FI MAX...
- TUI would operate 2 flights a week, seasonally, mainly sold as packages at an affordable price. Aimed 100% at the UK leisure market. Well known brand, reputable, reliable
- easyJet would probably operate 2/3 flights per week, varying seasonally, at low prices. They would cater to tourists both from the UK and Iceland. They may also sell some seats for package operators and cater to whatever small business market there is. Again, very well known in the UK and if people can bag flights for 50 quid, they'll probably consider it
- Icelandair... In order to be at all competitive would require an absolute minimum of 3/4 flights a week. In the 70-100 seat segment this may be sustainable, but on 160+ seat aircraft, charging high fares, this is unlikely to be sustainable. Icelandair would seem to make the most sense because they would cater to both inbound and outbound tourism, TATL connecting traffic, stopovers, business (very limited) and they also offer packages, but you're looking at paying £250-500 per person for return flights to Reykjavik... We know from United that this kind of sh*t doesn't go down well in geordieland

I can't see a fortnightly package holiday flight making that much of a dint in Emirates' performance from Newcastle. If anything it might help create some slack, emptying seats in the peak months for more lucrative passengers to fill! Emirates loses hundreds of thousands of passengers to competitors both at NCL and nearby airports anyway

[LiamNCL]

TUI 787 Dreamliner G-TUIC operating a final IBZ-NCL of the season Tonight.

[Jamesair]

New route announcements are very sparse for 2018. Is anything expected from Ryanair or EasyJet....or even the long awaited extention of the Stavanger route to Bergen?

[EK77WNCL]

I certainly wont be holding my breath, if I'm honest

[TheGeordielad]

New route announcements are very sparse for 2018. Is anything expected from Ryanair or EasyJet....or even the long awaited extention of the Stavanger route to Bergen?

Wouldn't be surprised if Ryanair don't add anything However I think EasyJet might announce something possibly 2 or 3 Routes to their bases in Europe (hoping for Lisbon
Milan&Venice)

[heslop2006]

Upon this very long argued vision of Thailand.

I'm from Newcastle and flew their via Dubai 3x within the last 5 years. On every one of those flights coming back, there was another person from the North East of England.

It would, however, make more sense that tour operators looked into places such as Phuket and Koh Samui.

I think Hua Hin would be viable but after Phuket and Koh Samui are set up.

Chiang Mai and Pattaya are high in tourist numbers but I don't think would be viable for tourism. Especially as Chiang Mai airport's airport is small and Pattaya isn't close to an airport itself.

[NCL-TRC]

LGW (that’s the guys that used to operate the Q400s for Air Berlin) will be operating the DUS on certain days with the dash for the next month at least.

[Heathrow Harry]

"On every one of those flights coming back, there was another person from the North East of England. "

I think they're going to need more than 2 pax a flight to make it work........ no, but seriosuly, use of longer range small airbus and the 787/A350 for longer flights should open up a lot of city pairs not currently served - it may eventually happen

the question is how many long-haul holidays can the NE generate a year?

[Plane.Silly]

Probably not enough to sustain the volumes need to make routes like these work. I'd love to be proved wrong though...

[Border Reiver]

Access to Koh Samui is also, I believe, very tightly controlled by Bangkok Airways. Also it's really only suitable for regional ops certainly not for long haul.

[Heathrow Harry]

The numbers going to/via Dubai have been pretty stable for years at around 230,000 pax a year

In 2007 the airport had around 5.7 mm pax - cp 4.8 mm last year - so you could argue that there is easily another 900,000 pax out there - but a new long haul airliner would have to take over 25% of that extra demand to make it work I guess - that's a big ask

[VentureGo]

I wonder if there is a breakdown somewhere of the 5.7m pax in 2007. It will be interesting to see routes and pax numbers at that time.
I would suggest potential is much higher than another 900,000 quoted, as the region has since grown in population. We have endured a recession over recent years, which has hit growth, but it was estimated at the time of the Masterplan, the Airport would reach 8m pax by 2025.

[SWBKCB]

2007 CAA stats

Airport Total pax
HEATHROW 495,366
AMSTERDAM 334,254
PALMA 298,604
STANSTED 297,882
ALICANTE 254,099
MALAGA 253,360
BRISTOL 246,808
PARIS CDG 234,370
DUBLIN 227,066
BELFAST INTER 224,565
TENERIFE 187,771
FARO 139,811
GATWICK 109,649
DALAMAN 95,255
BARCELONA 95,196
PRAGUE 90,244
MURCIA 87,623
LAS PALMAS 72,117
PAPHOS 72,058
ROME (CIAMPINO) 71,847
KRAKOW 67,316
IBIZA 66,531
ARRECIFE 61,880
CORFU 60,718
GERONA 57,800
EXETER 56,150
SHARM EL SHEIKH 54,900
BODRUM (MILAS) 50,632
NICE 49,867
FUERTEVENTURA 48,531
MAHON 47,575
LARNACA 44,246
DUBAI 44,139
HERAKLION 42,649
GENEVA 41,743
RHODES 40,404
CORK 38,968
BRUSSELS 38,958
BERGAMO 38,580
ZAKINTHOS 38,064
BELFAST CITY 37,208
HANOVER 32,470
REUS 31,494
MONASTIR 30,995
MALTA 26,039
BURGAS 25,437
ANTALYA 24,834
BIRMINGHAM 24,169
ABERDEEN 21,826
DUSSELDORF 20,760
BERGEN 20,486
KOS 19,293
COPENHAGEN 18,891
SANFORD 18,621
PISA 18,308
PUERTO PLATA 16,704
CARDIFF WALES 16,110
SALZBURG 14,123
FUNCHAL 14,105
VERONA 13,244
STAVANGER 13,086
VALENCIA 12,089
NAPLES 11,525
SANDEFJORD(TORP) 10,311
SALONIKA 9,982
ALMERIA 9,529
THIRA (SANTORINI) 7,905
LUXOR 7,695
TORONTO 7,558
CHAMBERY 6,900
ISLE OF MAN 6,876
SKIATHOS 6,661
GALWAY 6,650
KEFALLINIA 5,965
HAMILTON (CANADA) 5,941
INNSBRUCK 5,674
IZMIR 5,568
JERSEY 4,537
PLOVDIV 4,375
TURIN 3,179
LIMOGES 3,000
VARNA 2,898
VENICE 2,193
ROVANIEMI 2,015
GRENOBLE 913
KITTILA 878
TARBES-LOURDES 731
LONDON CITY 685
ALGHERO/SASSARI 668
ENONTEKIO 470
KEFLAVIK 321
OSTEND 293
SPLIT 267
MANCHESTER 185
BLACKPOOL 177
HAMBURG 136
LUTON 131
BRIDGETOWN 123
COLOGNE (BONN) 101
ATHENS 92
GENOA 87
AALBORG 79
BASLE MULHOUSE 72
BILLUND 64
LINZ 60
FARNBOROUGH 41
AUGSBURG 39
LILLE 39
GRAZ 36
INVERNESS 36
MADRID 33
MOLDE 24
TOTAL 5,491,606

[skyman771]

Well that's probably not too unusual given the fixed number of seats on offer & the high LF's !;)

Bit of a vicious circle, airport facilities incapable of A380, so would be a big jump to 773's 2x daily.

Conjecture only, but it's probably a no brainer that an A380 would have been on the cards IF NCL had the facilities to handle it ?
I am presuming that runway restrictions rule this out?, and as such nothing is going to change....

[HH6702]

I would thought EK will add a few evening flights first on busy days before going 2x daily
Maybe 10/11 flights per week to start off with

[01475]

A material chunk of the difference between 2007 and 2016 is the lack of the flight to Stansted, which is perhaps a sobering reminder of just how dicey life is for a regional airport in the UK.

[EK77WNCL]

Interesting to see how markets have developed over the last 10 years... Some of it's surprising how much we've lost in terms of passenger numbers, routes and charters... For example:

Destination, 2007 - 2016
-Heathrow, 495,366 - 499,479 (stable, but there must have been HUGE leak onto the trains considering LGW/STN were dropped!)
-Amsterdam, 334,254 - 363,690 (peaked more when EZY were on the route)
-Palma, 298,604 - 257,176 (might come back up to near 300 thousand next year with FR on the route)
-Stansted, 297,882 - Dropped
-Bristol, 246,808 - 164,595 (*Best not mention this one, it can get heated!)
-Paris, 234,370 - 148,784 (I believe CDG will have been EZY on their 737's and Brit Air CRJ 700's at the time)
-Dublin, 227,066 - 232,538 (huge growth recently, there must have been a considerable drop on NCL-DUB around the turn of the decade)
-Belfast, 224,565 - 250,418 (One of the more stable routes, probably the same 30,000 people that used to go to Belfast City)
- Gatwick, 109,649 - Dropped

- Prague, 90,244 - 26,194
- Murcia, 87,623 - 19,355
- Krakow, 67,316 - 27,196
- Rome, 71,847 - 17,744 (all 4 of these have gone from multiple weekly frequencies on EZY's 737 700's to x2 weekly on Jet2's 737 300's - Both of which have 148 seats if you're interested - EZY must have already dropped Budapest, Copenhagen and Berlin by 2007, I assume? )

- Brussels, 38,958 - 19,431 (SN RJ100 to BM E135 I believe?)
- Dusseldorf, 20,760 - 41,630 (Surprising result! Wasn't DUS twice daily at some point with the CRJ?)
- Orlando, 18,621 - 17,453 (Back when we had a MON A330 and TOM 767 every week - interesting that there are no figures for Cancun, 2007... Was it not operated that year?)
- Stavanger, 13,086 - 6,587 (WF, Dash 8 - BM, ERJ135)

- Copenhagen, 18,891 - 22,371 (Cimber Air, CRJ 200 - SAS, CRJ 900 - Dropped 10/17)
- Bergamo, 38,580 - Dropped (almost 40k and nobody's taken a second look since FR swapped us out for Manchester)
- Belfast City, 37,208 - Dropped (Back again on the Jetstreams)
- Hanover, 32,470 - Dropped (2007 was about the time of the transfer from HLX to TUI on the Hanover route wasn't it? After HLX's other routes to Cologne, Hamburg and Munich went under - If I remember correctly)
- Bergen, 20,486 - Dropped
- Birmingham, 24,169 - Dropped
- Puerto Plata, 16,704 - Dropped (I never knew Puerto Plata was operated from NCL, I thought it was just Punta Cana. I assume this was a TOM 767?)
- Valencia, 12,089 - Dropped (I never knew we had a route to VLC either! Who operated it?)
- Torp, 10,331 - Dropped (Just add to the list of Oslo airports we no longer have service to!)
- Thessaloniki, 9,982 - Dropped (hope it pays up for LS and TOM next year)
- Luxor, 7,695 - Dropped ( another route I never knew we had! XL I assume? They were adventurous)
- Toronto, 7558 - Dropped
- Izmir, 5,568 - Dropped (We had this too?? XL?)
- Plovdiv, 4,375 - Dropped (another one! Was this XL or Balkan?)
- Varna, 2,898 - Dropped (I knew this was somewhere down the line, but not the operator... XL/BH?)
- Venice, 2,193 (These were charters I assume, too early for Jet2... But a considerable amount of passengers)
- London City, 685 - Dropped ( The first 2 months of Eastern's ill fated LCY service, IIRC. Wrong airline, wrong aircraft, wrong business model...)
- Alghero, 668 (again, must have been charters, but somewhere I never knew we had service too - Sardinia is a bugger to try and get to!)

- Hamilton, 5,941 - Dropped (were these troop charters? Seems like an awful lot of passengers! Another odd one that I didn't know about/can't understand why it ever happened! It wasn't one of those oddball Flyglobespan routes was it? I know they did a few routes to Hamilton but I never thought from Newcastle...)

It's good to see that routes like Almeria, Thessaloniki and Santorini have come back online, or will be. Were Thessaloniki and Santorini XL routes?

I think a x4 weekly evening flight from Emirates, about 8-10 months of the year, is the best we can hope for in the immediate future.

Maybe one day we'll be a Cat F airport...

[Ph1l1pncl]

LGW (that’s the guys that used to operate the Q400s for Air Berlin) will be operating the DUS on certain days with the dash for the next month at least.

Looking on the website it seems to be the Dash Q400 on the route until at least January. Also, the route is now only operating 5 times weekly, the Tuesday rotation is no longer operating in the winter.

[HH6702]

Wow very interesting information there EK777WNCL

surprised by a few there and a shame others have picked up the route.
Maybe just shows about yields vs pax numbers

[GrahamK]

Valencia was Jet2
Hamilton was Globespan
Izmir was Thomas Cook
Luxor was Thomson

[GrahamK]

EK77WNCL

NCL is cleared for the 747-8 on diversions. The only other airport up north cleared for the 748 is Prestwick.

[tigertanaka]

Yes, very good info EK77WNCL.

I was interested to note that NCL lost over 1m pax between 2007 and 2009. This reduction mainly came from 20 airport destinations who all saw a drop of more than 20,000 pax a year each.


Of these 20 ALC, AMS, BFS and TFS have recovered that drop and now have passenger levels well above 2007 levels.
DUB, MAH, LPA and AGP recovered the drop and are now running at broadly the same levels as 2007.
PMI, ORK, BRU, FAO, CFU dropped hugely between 2007 and 2009 and have remained at roughly 2009 levels.
PRG and KRK are above 2009 but still far below 2007.
CDG and BRS have continued to decline after the severe drop between 2007-2009.
For completeness, STN, CIA and BGY have not reappeared
Of the 20 routes responsible fore the 1m drop between 2007-2009, total pax on these routes have only increased by 350k in the period 2009-2016.


DXB is the jewel in the crown for NCL and the 186k pax they added in the 10 years over the years 2007-2016 must have really impacted transfer pax at CDG, BRU, AMS (offset by U2 pulling out) and LHR (offset by the loss of STN and LGW).

[JollyTraveller]

What has happened with the Newcastle to Copenhagen SAS Flight?

[Jamesair]

Suspended from 31/10

[jensdad]

Some really interesting info has popped up on this thread since I last looked!
I'm not an economist (and I know that airline economics is even more complicated than the normal kind :) ) but the numbers of passengers using the Gatwick and Stansted flights in 2007 make me wonder. Surely someone these days could make money on these routes?
Also, interesting to hear that Newcastle and Prestwick are the only airports in the North-ish end of the UK that are cleared for the B748. Surprised that, at least on this one small point, we've stolen a march on Edinburgh.

[Heathrow Harry]

why bother? Only 47 pax versions sold and 8 of those are VIP versions for Saudi

And I can't see much demand for one of the 88 freighters using NCL

[EK77WNCL]

I'm assuming you're aware of the principle of a diversion though?

Not much to do with demand... More to do with landing your aircraft where you can, when you can, as safely as possible

I wasn't aware we were cleared to handle it on diversions. Interesting fact. So that'll be; LHR, LGW, STN, MAN, EMA, NCL, PIK, I assume. Also BHX?

[benm345]

Bournemouth?

[johnnychips]

Doncaster? It can land the AN 225.

[GrahamK]

Anyhow, new routes for S18:
SKG - TOM, LS
BJV - TCX, LS

Is that it?

[SWBKCB]

The NIA flightguide also has these as "NEW"...

DUBROVNIK (DBV) - TUI

HURGHADA (HRG) - THOMAS COOK

ENFHIDA (NBE) - THOMAS COOK

[GrahamK]

September stats:

Heathrow -6%
Aberdeen +35%
Belfast City 475
Belfast int +9%
Cardiff +10%
Jersey -6%
Southampton +11%

Brussels: +18%
Copenhagen -41%
Nice -15%
Paris CDG +3%
Berlin 3319
Dusseldorf +16%
Cork -40%
Dublin +1%
Rome -11%
Amsterdam +5%
Barcelona -39%
Madrid 3011
Stavanger -6%
Geneva -37%
Prague +3%
Gdansk 2786
Krakow -3
Warsaw 2730
Wroclaw 2194
Dubai +4%
Sanford +49%
Cancun -13%

12 month rolling 5.23m +11%

[yeo valley]

I see the BRS pax figures missing again.Is this down to BRS that they missing does any one think that may be it.

[Jamesair]

Bristol was 14,077 + 1%

[jensdad]

The NIA flightguide also has these as "NEW"...

DUBROVNIK...

HURGHADA...

ENFHIDA.


They've got a short memory, these marketing folks.:*

[Cirrussy]

Anybody know why the departing Emirates taxied back off the runway to give it a second shot, causing two aircraft (BA and EZY) to go around today?

[Jamesair]

Very good figures from the Airport for October. Pax 504,979 against 444,660 (2016)...increase of 60,319. All categories higher including domestic. That's another month with over 500,000 pax

[SWBKCB]

Airline reveals its winter programme from Newcastle - and there are two new destinations - Gazette Live (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/airline-reveals-winter-programme-newcastle-13887107)

[apaul]

Stretching the definition of new as Jet2 has flown more frequently to Rome and Krakow in the past.

[jensdad]

To be fair to them, the company themselves do describe Rome and Antalya as 'two new winter routes' (my italics - I don't think either of these have been served in winter from NCL before? I could be wrong). You're right though: a lot of local news outlets seem to see themselves as cheerleaders for the North East rather than serious news organisations and end up doing the PR industry's work for them. The line between current affairs and PR is getting very blurred, as is the line between positive spin and outright lies, but this is maybe a subject for JetBlast!

[Ph1l1pncl]

Great news passenger numbers have increased again, though the Heathrow figures are concerning to me, they keep showing a decline and more BA flights are being operated but the 319 now and the 5 daily flights seem to be being extended for longer periods of time than it being 6 daily.

On a separate note, do you think that Jet2 will self handle under the wing at Newcastle? They do so at East Midlands and the base isn't much bigger than the one in Newcastle. Since aviator pulled out of Newcastle it means Swissport now has a monopoly at Newcastle so can charge what prices they want which may stifle growth going forward. Unless an airline self handles themselves.

[Heathrow Harry]

I suspect LHR will continue to decline - it's mainly an inter-connection market I suspect as anyone with any business in C London/Canary Wharf will use the train

If the UK economy continues to stagnate numbers are likely to continue falling..............

[EK77WNCL]

I still think they'd do better running 3/4 daily to LHR and 2/3 daily into LCY. I'd have thought they'd jump at the chance to use some LHR slots on more lucrative routes. At the minute we have:

NCL-LHR
BA1321, 07:35 Mon-Sun (08:05 Sat)
BA1325, 09:35 Mon-Sun
BA1327, 12:05 Mon-Sun
BA1333, 14:40 Mon-Sun (14:20 Tue, 15:50 Sat)
BA1335, 17:10 Mon-Sun (17:30 Mon, 16:25 Sat)
BA1337, 19:40 Mon-Sun (ex Sat) Night stops

I'd suggest scrapping BA1327 and BA1335, leaving *roughly; 7, 9, 2 and 7 o'clock departures and adding something like:

LCY 07:00 - 08:15 NCL 09:00 - 10:15 LCY
LCY 16:00 - 17:15 NCL 18:00 - 19:15 LCY
LCY 19:00 - 20:15 NCL *07:00 - 08:15 LCY

[CabinCrewe]

where are the peak LCY slots coming from and which BACF Emb is spare during these rotations?

[SWBKCB]

I still think they'd do better running 3/4 daily to LHR and 2/3 daily into LCY. I'd have thought they'd jump at the chance to use some LHR slots on more lucrative routes. At the minute we have:

And what do you know that BA don't, with their years of experience on the route and masses of customer data??

[EK77WNCL]

I know that we've lost 400,000, largely O&D passengers to London since 2007. I also know that London City is under 15 minutes from Canary Wharf on the DLR, you can double that (and a bit more) from Kings Cross and it takes longer to get to Canary Wharf from Heathrow than it does to fly from Newcastle. There is also the fact that having flights into London City would give BA a competitive advantage over Virgin with the business community

Another thing I know is that Newcastle is right on the awkward threshold that still makes the train really competitive, whereas the plane has the edge from Edinburgh/Glasgow due to distance and the time taken.

The bits I don't know are where they would get the slots or spare aircraft. But I'll hazard a guess that when the upgrades are finished at LCY things will look a little more flexible. And i'm sure Eastern would always be happy to lease in another aircraft to BA if they wanted/needed it

[SWBKCB]

And BA don't know that? And why the obsession with Canary Wharf? Is there huge demand to travel there from the North East?

[Heathrow Harry]

Businessmen maybe - and you can charge high fares for that sort of service. Might work with a smallish aircraft...............

[mmeteesside]

Have to say I've used BA quite a few times in the last year and have always been surprised at the amount of London-Newcastle traffic on that route. Certainly not majority connecting as I expected.

[EK77WNCL]

SWBKCB, I suspect BA probably do know that, just as much as I suspect you're quite deliberately trying to be awkward

Heathrow Harry, they're all pretty small, BACF's largest aircraft doesn't even have 100 seats. So realistically we're talking about having to fill half of what currently goes into Heathrow. I really can't see any issue in filling a few Embraers especially if Heathrow rotations were swapped for City rotations.

I can understand the scepticism. London is, after all a very niche, exotic destination and London City airport... Don't get me started, big inconvenient mess of a place in such an inconvenient location I can't even understand why they built it there in the first place! :rolleyes:

It's not bloody Timbuktu!

[GrahamK]

Yet Eastern couldnt make a 3 x daily J41 service work...

[SWBKCB]

SWBKCB, I suspect BA probably do know that, just as much as I suspect you're quite deliberately trying to be awkward

I still think they'd do better running 3/4 daily to LHR and 2/3 daily into LCY

And you don't think this might be just a tad arrogant?

If the business case is so good - Virgin Money have a big office in Gosforth....

[VentureGo]

I feel LHR figures have reduced simply due to lower capacity offered on this route. Many services in 2007 were operated via 757 a/c, and I remember the odd 767 substituted occasionally- LCY is a different model with premium fares for business customers heading to the "City"
CDG in my opinion is also restricted by AF capacity offered on this route, Fares for point to point are high, if leisure customers were to consider, for example w/e breaks to Paris or short breaks to Disneyland.
EZY I'm sure could add extra capacity without effecting AF connecting business model too much - Same may apply to AMS vs. KLM., although wouldn't want to see legacy airlines diminished.
SAS (Braathens) to Oslo, Stavanger and Bergen were also daily 737 routes in the day - not sure of the volumes. too

[EK77WNCL]

I do apologise if you think I'm being arrogant, it wasn't my intention.

GrahamK, Eastern actually operated a 4 daily service with a wet leased Dornier 328. They were brand new to London City, charge extortionate fares and were pushed out of LCY by the increasing costs for smaller aircraft, which has subsequently pushed out almost all of the smaller aircraft that used to operate from there. It was a very expensive setup from the start and it would have required a lot of people paying the high fares to keep it going.

In the case of Newcastle, you're more likely to fill 98 seats on an E190 at £60-120 than 30-odd seats on a Dornier at £300+ and probably make a bigger profit

VentureGo, I agree, KLM didn't reduce service when EZY came on and EZY/AF survived nicely together for years. Your comment about leisure, interestingly, when I've looked LCY can sometimes be the cheaper option. Huge amounts of capacity have been lost on the London route and I really do wish we had a second option, even if it was another BA flight to a different airport

[fl dutchman]

Don’t understand why it is being suggested to reduce frequency on Newcastle’s busiest route. LHR. (At least I think it is)
I think the numbers hold up well despite a drop in Sept. Yes there are more 319 aircraft being used. However during the winter schedule I think you will see more 320/321 aircraft being used. In addition capacity has been reduced slightly on all types with Club Europe now on that route.
Load factors remain very high.
Frequency is an important factor on this route for connections
I’m sure scrapping the 1327 and the 1335 and the inbounds would be most unwelcome.
Incidentally BA used to operate to both LGW and LHR once upon a time with A320 family and 737 aircraft up to 11 a day from NCL. Of course times have changed today.
A service to LCY would be welcome but not to the detriment of LHR.

[VentureGo]

EK77WNCL - BA to LCY if business case stands up - Although for added volume to LONDON Low Cost operators to LGW or secondly STN may be better option for fares to compete with rail. Connections to London are frequent and reasonable from LGW via Southern or Thameslink and quicker than Tube from LHR.
London City will always be premium price due to operators and nature of that market

[EK77WNCL]

If BA could hold up 5/6 daily LHR as well as a LCY service, that would be fantastic. Point to point traffic on LHR might drop, but the service could draw some passengers from ground transportation.

In an ideal world I think we would have British Airways to LHR and LCY as well as either Ryanair to Stansted or easyJet to Gatwick

Alas, consolidation is the name of the game! Keep what we've got and make money on it.

[SWBKCB]

AMS, CDG, LGW and STN have all been operated by LCC's and dropped.

Other than these airports now being more constrained/expensive, what's changed?

[N707ZS]

Who used to run the previous LCY service with a leased in aircraft Eastern? Possibly a Do328. Didn't last long.

[Travel Agent]

2007 v 2017 on LHR route... a lot of traffic going into LHR was onward connections. Emirates came in 2007 and took a large portion of connecting traffic for middle east, far east & downunder so that maybe part of the reason for a reduction in numbers...

[EK77WNCL]

I may be wrong, but I wouldn't be sure that Emirates has had that much of an effect on British Airways at Newcastle, there were actually 4,000 more passengers on the route in 2016 compared to 2007. BA has always had a lot of competition for connecting passengers and I think that BA/EK are after different groups of passengers. BA is strongest on Westbound connecting traffic and likely short haul. Routes like FR to Madrid and EZY to Berlin will probably do more damage!

It would be interesting if anyone had the actual numbers for each destination and how many connected NCL-LHR-XXX

[A320.b744]

What you're forgetting is that since 2007 both NCL-STN and NCL-LGW have been cancelled. 2016 NCL-LON figures are just over half what they were back in 2007.

2007: 902,784

NCL-LHR 495,366
NCL-LGW 109,649
NCL-STN 297,769

2016: 497,386

NCL-LHR 497,386

407,418 passengers used NCL-LGW and NCL-STN in 2007, all of whom were point-to-point customers. Meanwhile, BA carried 495,366 passengers, some of whom were connecting passengers. The figures show that LGW and STN passengers are now flying to LHR (or not at all), and that many connecting passengers are using alternative airlines to BA. The figures strongly suggest that BA carried a lot fewer connecting passengers in 2016 than they did back in 2007, meaning Emirates (and KLM etc) have had a pretty major effect.

[tigertanaka]

As fl dutchman said, the introduction of domestic Club Europe has hit the number of available seats on the LHR route. In my experience, there are normally at least 5 rows of CE on the NCL flight which is 10 less seats overall as the middle seat is left empty for business class passengers.

For an A319 this is a 7% reduction in capacity and for an A320 this means 6% less sellable seats.

The winter timetable does not help loads on BA as the first flight out of NCL leaves too late - if you are connecting on to a European destination it is far more preferable to get a 6am KLM flight than a 7:30ish BA flight. Heathrow slots are probably the issue here as for the past few years the winter timetable has a far later first flight out of NCL than in summer.

BA are retiring the 767s as well so that will necessitate some shuffling around of the A321 fleet and a knock on effect for lower yielding routes.

[EK77WNCL]

A320.b744, I did mention earlier the decline of 400,000 passengers per annum due to losing LGW and STN, but I do think you're somewhat mistaken in your assumptions.

I think you'll find that it's much more likely that the ex LGW/STN passengers are now using the train or driving. The majority of British Airways passengers (especially with loyalty) won't just stop using British Airways as if to "make way" for the O&D passengers that now can't fly with easyJet or Flybe (or Jet2 or whoever did NCL-LGW in 2007)

LHR is +4,000 pax 2007-2016
AMS comes in at +30,000
DXB +190,000
CDG is -80,000

I'm also confident that a good portion of STN/LGW passengers were connecting onwards, and may use different routes and carriers now.

I really don't think much has changed for any of the legacies at Newcastle since 2007. Yes Emirates arrived on the scene and some passengers will have shuffled about. But for the most part the market has been stimulated.

Anecdotally, my family had never been outside of Europe (bar Egypt) until 2008... Since then we've been to "Dubai and beyond" with Emirates, every year except last. In that sense, they've created a significant new market because I'm sure we aren't alone. Emirates made medium/long haul travel affordable on a large scale from Newcastle.

[apaul]

Aren't BA cramming an extra 12 seats on to the A320? So the seats for sale will probably be similar, just less passenger comfort.

[fl dutchman]

Think this was done a couple of years ago.

I agree with EK77WNCL in that the people who used to use the LGW and STN routes are now using the train, car, bus etc and only perhaps a few are using LHR.

I do believe that nowadays however the majority of people on the LHR are connecting passengers. Thats why timing and frequency is so important.

If your a regular on this route you will know that is usually very busy.

Re loyalty, I believe there are still a number of Executive Club members using LHR to connect to Australia etc so they have not all gone to EK

[jensdad]

I'm also confident that a good portion of STN/LGW passengers were connecting onwards


Yep, I used the LGW (BA, BE, and did EZY do it at one stage?) as well as EZY to STN on numerous occasions, each time to connect onto a flight to somewhere more appealing than London :)

[skyman771]

Times change & so does just about everything else.
Completely pointless looking at reasons in "london" traffic variance without affording due consideration to changes in rail seat volume , frequency & pricing & perhaps the most understated of all for train, the ease of use, i.e turn up, walk on / walk off without any concerns of security checks etc.
Talk of splitting flights LCY /LHR on basis that it may attract more traffic is plain ridiculous !:ugh:
In a poor economy then without providing service enhancements &/or better value for money, then there will be little change. The result, certainly on US routes there is simply greater competition between carriers for connecting pax. In BA's case quality of service also encompasses reliability & some have a long memory of cancelled flights due to industrial action etc.....

[Plane.Silly]

Does anyone know how Jet2's upcoming Newark flights are doing? I can see the 17th is full, then the next 2 are on their leased A332. 23rd for 4n is £270 rtn, a bargain if you ask me but makes me wonder if they have too many seats left

[GrahamK]

23rd has about 15 seats unreserved.

[EK77WNCL]

From past experience, they all tend to go out pretty much full, and they don't seem to push prices up last minute, hence there are some pretty good deals to be had!

230/235 when I went last year, I'm sure.

[Norjet441]

Think this was done a couple of years ago.

I agree with EK77WNCL in that the people who used to use the LGW and STN routes are now using the train, car, bus etc and only perhaps a few are using LHR.

I do believe that nowadays however the majority of people on the LHR are connecting passengers. Thats why timing and frequency is so important.

If your a regular on this route you will know that is usually very busy.

Re loyalty, I believe there are still a number of Executive Club members using LHR to connect to Australia etc so they have not all gone to EK
Indeed you are quite correct fl dutchman.

I'm one of those loyal BA card holders who takes the BA16/15 SYD-LHR-NCL & v.v in J several times a year. LHR T5 wins over DXB any day of the week in my view and whilst it might be controversial, I believe BA to be better than EK in terms of comfort and service.

Pleased to see J on the BA domestics now, offering continuity of service to final destination and at least the impression of better value for money.

[EK77WNCL]

I'm a self proclaimed Emirates fanboy, but considering the last 7 hours of your journey would be cooped up in a 7 abreast business class, I completely understand why you would choose BA over them! And I'm glad, every airline needs their loyal customers!

I don't have that much experience of premium cabins, but I've flown EK J on the A332 out of Newcastle and Lufthansa Premium economy on the 747 Shanghai - Frankfurt... And I'd pick LH Y+ any day.

Etihad's 789 blows all the competition out the water though! :ok:

[tigertanaka]

In what way is BA J 7 abreast? The seats are ying/yang style yes but when I have flown with them recently (DXB, PHL, SFO, HKG) it's more like 3 or 4 abreast.

[nclops]

The way I read it he's saying EK is 7 abreast not BA.

[tigertanaka]

Yes my fault, I read it wrong. BA is not the best J but Club World is a hell of a lot better than some and you are guaranteed a flat seat. In my experience BA's J fares out of NCL (and LBA) are often super competitive compared to KL and BA ex LHR.

[BAladdy]

Aren't BA cramming an extra 12 seats on to the A320? So the seats for sale will probably be similar, just less passenger comfort.
You are correct BA are adding a further 12 seats to there A320/A321 Aircraft. BA are removing a wardrobe from the aircraft and redesigning the galleys as less galley space is required BOB.

BA will begin reconfiguring there A320’s will from 168 to 180 seats shortly. This program will continue until late Spring. The A321’s will be configured shortly afterwards and will have there number of seats increased from 205 to 218, in time for S18

BA confirmed the plans for there shorthaul fleet for the next 5 years.

The A320NEO’s will start to be delivered from early 2018. The new aircraft will be fitted with in seat charging sockets throughout and the new WIFI system. A total 10 A321NEO and 25 A320NEO’s will be in service by the end of 2022.

The 7 767’s still flying in shorthaul will begin to be retired from late JUL18 through until late Dec18. The A319 fleet will reduce in size from 44 now to 28 by the end of 2019. The number in service is expected to only BA 22 by end of 2022. Full details are in the presentation below

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9MzkzMjE1fENoaWxkSUQ9LTF8VHlwZ T0z&t=1&cb=636452658710557042

[ash666]

I used EK once for long haul but wouldn't do it again.

I hated splitting my journey in the middle. After food, movie and wine I just want to go to sleep and wake up feeling refreshed not kicked off for several hours and end up feeling terrible.

I was a posh geezer recently and the AF NCL to CDG was fine but the CDG to BKK was like stepping back 20 years. Half the flight had Sky Priority so huge queue and an ancient 2-3-2 plane and not many cabin crew.
Back to KLM for me in future who have turned their act around majorly over the last few years.

[Beatts]

Interesting roumers that Glasgow is to get an A380 from Emirates. This coincidences with a terminal and pier extension.

[HH6702]

Yes it should free up a 777 I'm sure they already have plans for it (dreaming again but a few evening flights for us ?)

[CabinCrewe]

increase in frequency tends to occur above consistent year round 90% loads, is NCL in this category?

[GrahamK]

Can't see any increase for the next 3 or 4 years at least.

[Callum Paterson]

NCL will be no where near the top of Emirates expansion list. The 787 will be well suited to the market once they are delivered. Of course this is many years away.

[highwideandugly]

Change of subject.. Newcastle have been crying out for many,many years for some decent hangerage .

With Jet 2 and to some extent,Easy,BA and Ryanair increasing flights..does anyone think..hangarage may be on the agenda for increased revenue?Not to mention the increase in Executive movements?
Speculate to accumulate?

[NCL-TRC]

NCL will be no where near the top of Emirates expansion list. The 787 will be well suited to the market once they are delivered. Of course this is many years away.

I wouldn’t be all that sure on that, I have it on good authority that the 787-9 will struggle for performance ex NCL.

[HH6702]

Emirates can't expand the current flight much more they have a lot of market share.
Having an evening flight will improve the loads and open up better connection times to Asia which people from the northeast use KLM /BA etc due to them offering better deals for connections.

It is on the cards just a case of when

[SWBKCB]

Change of subject.. Newcastle have been crying out for many,many years for some decent hangerage .

Where would you put it?

[LiamNCL]

I wouldn’t be all that sure on that, I have it on good authority that the 787-9 will struggle for performance ex NCL.

EKs would be the even longer again 78-10. Dont think the 77W will be going anywhere.

[canberra97]

Under the terms of the recent EK order for Boeing 787-10 it also mentions that some could be changed to the Boeing 787-9 if the airline decides to do so.

You state 'EKs would be the even longer again 78-10'

I don't think that any take off performance using the runway at NCL is based around the length of the aircraft more to do with MTOW.

[irishlad06]

From past experience, they all tend to go out pretty much full, and they don't seem to push prices up last minute, hence there are some pretty good deals to be had!

230/235 when I went last year, I'm sure.


Both EWR flights on A330 showing as full in the system, 326 and 327

[LiamNCL]

Excellent loads on the A330 EWR flights

[Plane.Silly]

Great news, just proves the demand is still there. Here's hoping if/when 2018 flights get released, Jet2 see this potential and add even more flights

[N707ZS]

canberra97 high ground on the 07 end has been a problem in the past. Think a Kuwait 747 once got stuck due to this. My travel A320s used to re-fuel at DTVA for the same reason.

[canberra97]

Surely an A320 can use the runway at NCL without the need to take a fuel stop!

[N707ZS]

They may have been different variants of A320 but they couldn't make the Canary Islands without refuelling at DTVA.

[SWBKCB]

Surely an A320 can use the runway at NCL without the need to take a fuel stop!

Of course they can, the vast majority of the time but it also depends where it is going and what the weather conditions are - heavy departures off 25 are definitely more constrained by the local geography than off 07.

[MATELO]

They may have been different variants of A320 but they couldn't make the Canary Islands without refuelling at DTVA.

How much fuel did they upload at DTVA?? Surely coming off track, climbing and descending would have used more fuel than actually going to the Canaries direct.

If it was Man or Birmingham I could understand, but DTVA.

[CentreFix25]

I'm pretty sure it was only My Travel who couldn't make it all the way to the Canaries from Newcastle in certain wind conditions; I think it had something to do with the higher ground on the 25 climb out. After a couple of years of this I believe MYT amended their SOP and the refuel requirement disappeared overnight.

I'm happy to be corrected.

[EK77WNCL]

I can understand why an older generation A320 couldn't make the canaries direct out of NCL on 25. I remember about 10 years ago, Thomas Cook and Balkans would request 07 departures where applicable. Even as recently as 5 years ago I remember a Larnaca departure on a TCX A320 requesting 07, against the flow of departures.

Newer generation A32x's can make it easily... Look at EZY to TFS with 186 pax and sharklets

Incremental PIP's have made the A320 a much more competitive airframe than it was.

MYT's A320/A321's were first generation, with much reduced takeoff performance/range

Amazing to think that the A321LR can probably make East Coast US and Middle East, non stop from NCL, whereas 1st gen couldn't make the canaries

[Border Reiver]

The early AIH, that's where it went back to, a320s were relatively old aircraft when we took them. Off 25 on a low pressure day there was not the performance to make the Canaries or Paphos. Going to Teeside meant only one climb to altitude so I believe greater efficiency. Also Teeside was a summer base at that stage.

As for performance off 25 Dan Air's 737 whether 200 or cfm were no better. AIH's MD 83's were of course even worse. Happy days.

[akindofmagic]

The early A320s MYT/TCX had (the first one I ever flew was MSN193) had the old, first generation IAE V2500s with inherent significant performance restrictions. It never happened to me personally but I remember a colleague being stuck for a couple of hours at NCL waiting for the wind to change sufficiently for them to be able to depart.

Engaging the TOGA Bump function on those engines always gave a marvellous grinding noise. Never sounded particularly healthy!

[Border Reiver]

Going further back a 1-11 500 without de-min water injection couldn't even make Alicante non stop off 25. Stu Ferguson and I found that out the hard way one day!

[skyman771]

It's an interesting point, however these days the Airbus supplied to EZY have their engines "de-rated" as company policy as part of an economy drive as such they never have available the max possible thrust that the engine can "on paper" produce.
In noting the Aitours machines problems in earlier years then perhaps they too did not have the benefit of the availability of max available thrust.

[Beatts]

Thats not true, there capable of TOGA which is equivalent to full Thrust and they use this regularly for example intersection takeoffs from Belfast. They use a 'flex' temperature normally which enables them to use a lower thrust setting by entering a temperature but this still gives the correct amount of runway needed and climb out speeds/heights. Its all done on a Toughpad before departure to get the correct flex temp and speeds.

[Jamesair]

The airport route statistics for September are now on the CAA website

[SWBKCB]

The airport route statistics for September are now on the CAA website


OK - I can take a hint. Not complete - no BRS or EXT for example



PALMA 49,369 41,074 20.20
HEATHROW 43,160 46,013 -6.20
ALICANTE 40,523 36,460 11.14
AMSTERDAM 32,669 31,070 5.15
MALAGA 27,366 27,782 -1.50
FARO 24,364 16,653 46.30
BELFAST INTER 21,465 19,721 8.84
DUBAI 21,227 20,429 3.91
TENERIFE 20,731 16,715 24.03
DUBLIN 20,216 19,987 1.15
IBIZA 16,212 15,216 6.55
ARRECIFE 14,416 11,770 22.48
DALAMAN 14,144 14,727 -3.96
PARIS 13,376 13,038 2.59
REUS 11,309 10,548 7.21
SOUTHAMPTON 11,254 9,973 12.84
CORFU 9,191 9,188 0.03
RHODES 8,926 8,796 1.48
MAHON 8,147 7,702 5.78
LARNACA 8,037 7,124 12.82
ZAKINTHOS 7,998 7,575 5.58
PAPHOS 7,347 6,081 20.82
BURGAS 7,265 5,459 33.08
BARCELONA 6,691 10,946 -38.87
ANTALYA 6,624 5,179 27.90
GIRONA 6,397 1,490 329.33
HERAKLION 6,162 5,804 6.17
LAS PALMAS 6,143 5,783 6.23
FUERTEVENTURA 6,090 4,515 34.88
MALTA 4,660 3,843 21.26
DUSSELDORF 4,211 3,626 16.13
SANFORD 3,974 2,666 49.06
CANCUN 3,828 4,388 -12.76
BERLIN 3,319 0 0.00
NAPLES 3,239 3,208 0.97
NICE 3,223 3,798 -15.14
MADRID 3,011 0 0.00
KOS 2,992 3,527 -15.17
JERSEY 2,853 3,041 -6.18
GDANSK 2,786 0 0.00
WARSAW 2,730 0 0.00
VERONA 2,697 2,652 1.70
KRAKOW 2,567 2,642 -2.84
PRAGUE 2,547 2,482 2.62
GENEVA 2,475 3,917 -36.81
KEFALLINIA 2,474 2,901 -14.72
DUBROVNIK 2,452 3,589 -31.68
ALMERIA 2,378 0 0.00
MURCIA 2,305 2,900 -20.52
BRUSSELS 2,302 1,952 17.93
PISA 2,288 1,796 27.39
ROME - FIUMICINO 2,270 2,547 -10.88
WROCLAW 2,194 0 0.00
SANTORINI 2,102 1,685 24.75
SKIATHOS 1,968 2,029 -3.01
COPENHAGEN 1,680 2,825 -40.53
HURGHADA 1,562 0 0.00
FUNCHAL 1,398 2,536 -44.87
CARDIFF 1,337 1,220 9.59
ABERDEEN 1,094 811 34.90
CORK 1,042 1,733 -39.87
SPLIT 948 252 276.19
STAVANGER 694 741 -6.34
BELFAST CITY 475 0 0.00
SALZBURG 466 464 0.43
VILNIUS 179 0 0.00
NEWQUAY 118 111 6.31
MANCHESTER 100 0 0.00
ISLE OF MAN 52 415 -87.47
LIVERPOOL 36 75 -52.00
GENOA 0 130 -100.00
VENICE 0 132 -100.00
BODRUM 0 3,187 -100.00
NEW YORK (NEWARK) 0 1,247 -100.00
BIRMINGHAM 0 40 -100.00
BRISTOL 0 12,966 -100.00
EXETER 0 3,521 -100.00
GATWICK 0 45 -100.00
NORWICH 0 87 -100.00

[NorthEasterner]

Some changes to Dublin...

Ryanair has dropped the early evening Dublin at 1845 on Sundays effective from S18.

Aer Lingus continuing with into S18 at 1 per day at 1045 and 1220 Sundays.

Dropping the Sunday flight seems bizarre in my opinion, quite busy the majority of times with people commuting back to DUB or NCL for the week ahead.

On the other hand, I do hope Ryanair are continuing their investment at NCL, with maybe 1 or 2 new routes hopefully.

[skyman771]

Beatts That's not true,

What you say may well be, however what I'm saying is that the Airbus engines are de-rated by what is effectively a "quasi" engine management chip so that the actual max power available on "full thrust" is not the same as the potential full power that the particular engine can be set up to produce. This is done because on certain airbus types there is more than sufficient power available for most operating conditions.
It makes sense for EZY to have the performance de-rated slightly, which achieves two basic things, it protects the engine life, and it also makes operation more economic. It obviously doesn't effect safety as all calculations by "touchpad"? or what ever are simply based on the actual engine performance available for the given conditions!

[highwideandugly]

Dublin reductions? Competition from Carlisle!

[Jamesair]

Thanks SWBKCB........Bristol is 13,635 +9% and Exeter is 3867 +10%

re Dublin..very strange goings on...looks like we will see a sharp drop from the 20,000 + monthly pax levels next year