Newcastle-9

[CabinCrewe]

Drop was 12% to 19,924 pax
Oooft.... ! What year was the total per month last that low?

[SWBKCB]

All UK airports to DXB were down - due to the way Easter fell? If you add in the average 5% drop since the EDI started, it's in line with the others.

GATWICK -10.44
HEATHROW -18.40
BIRMINGHAM -6.96
GLASGOW -6.26
MANCHESTER -4.70
NEWCASTLE -11.67

[GrahamK]

Last years DXB figures included a couple of GLA diverts too, so the GLA-DXB figures would be a bigger drop too

[eye2eye5]

Last years DXB figures included a couple of GLA diverts too, so the GLA-DXB figures would be a bigger drop too
CAA statistics allocate diverts to the airport the flight was diverted from.

[jensdad]

Thanks Jamesair. A little eyewatering indeed, but the LHR and LGW numbers give a bit of context.

[L66MBD]

Hi all returning from Faro on Friday and I see a fair few recent flights have been NEO operated. Chances for this Friday...? Cheers

[LiamNCL]

Hi all returning from Faro on Friday and I see a fair few recent flights have been NEO operated. Chances for this Friday...? Cheers

Fridays FAO-NCL is scheduled on the A320 which is G-UZHO (NEO) at the moment, good chance that will be bringing you home Friday but check Friday morning.

[L66MBD]

Fridays FAO-NCL is scheduled on the A320 which is G-UZHO (NEO) at the moment, good chance that will be bringing you home Friday but check Friday morning.
nice one cheers

[Jamesair]

April 2019 statistics are now available on the airport website. Passenger reductions in all categories, Total 396,586 (405,703 April 2018)

[SWBKCB]

April 2019 statistics are now available on the airport website. Passenger reductions in all categories, Total 396,586 (405,703 April 2018)
Just curious, the stats show 401 freight/mail flights, so over 10 a day. Presumably this must be all flights carrying any freight or mail, rather than dedicated flights (of which there is only the FedEx and the odd charter?)

[Jamesair]

I'm assuming NCL will be fully represented at the Routes Europe event in Hanover this week to negotiate new routes.

[LiamNCL]

Hi all returning from Faro on Friday and I see a fair few recent flights have been NEO operated. Chances for this Friday...? Cheers

G-UZHO is returning from RHO so it will be operating FAO in the morning.

[VickersVicount]

I'm assuming NCL will be fully represented at the Routes Europe event in Hanover this week to negotiate new routes.
What new routes did you have in mind?

[GAXLN]

I'm assuming NCL will be fully represented at the Routes Europe event in Hanover this week to negotiate new routes.

I doubt it. Reason being Routes Europe was held in April!

[L66MBD]

G-UZHO is returning from RHO so it will be operating FAO in the morning.
cheers looking forward to the differences

[Jamesair]

Jet 2......extra flight to Iceland on 24/11/19 giving a total of 7 over the 19/20 winter period

[ash666]

What new routes did you have in mind?

Frankfurt? It seems to be a major hub.

[tigertanaka]

Frankfurt? It seems to be a major hub.

FRA would be a big plus for NCL. Star Alliance seemingly has Central Europe sewn up and the loss of the Brussels Airlines codeshare is not helping NCL in this respect. In recent times I have had to go to LCY, MAN and EDI to get a flight to FRA and connect on to places not served by KLM, AF or BA. The DUS flight seems to do pretty well but the timings mean that despite 8 trips there in the past year, I have never used Eurowings.

[Jamesair]

I think NCL is more likely to see a route to Munich before Frankfurt...an earlier post said that slots had been requested for this year for a 6 x wkly service. With Loganair basing a second a/c in September I would expect to see the Oslo and Bergen services start. They are no doubt exploring other route options as they seem to want a bigger presence at NCL.

[LTNman]

April 2019 statistics are now available on the airport website. Passenger reductions in all categories, Total 396,586 (405,703 April 2018)

Easter in April as well so makes the figures even worse.

[SWBKCB]

Easter in April as well so makes the figures even worse.


I guess the ongoing monthly Heathrow and Dubai reductions, plus the extra Dubai reductions caused due to the runway work will account for much of that.

[Jamesair]

Plus loss of Berlin and Madrid services which accounted for over 6,000 passengers between them in April 2018 and Warsaw 2,500. That represents a loss of 8,500 + to the April 2019 figures.

[VentureGo]

What the hell is "odd ball" Leon McQuaid - Aviation Development Manager and his recently appointed side kick Chris Ions (Aviation Development Executive) doing to earn his / their salary?!! - Growth Down, Overall Business Down -- Time to get serious and Develop the business into the Airport the region deserves. Former CEO Dave Laws started a successful plan with Emirates and United long haul services. Maybe time has come to capitalise and further grow route development ... or recruit new team...

[PDXCWL45]

What the hell is Leon McQuaid - Aviation Development Executive and his recently appointed side kick doing to earn his / their salary?!! - Growth Down, Overall Business Down

I the airlines don't want to operate routes or the customers use them then there is not a lot airport management can do!

[VentureGo]

I the airlines don't want to operate routes or the customers use them then there is not a lot airport management can do!

It is the job of an Aviation Development team to sell, promote and incentivise growth - The current team are simply not doing their job well / at all

There are plenty of opportunities waiting to be managed:
East Coast USA (NYC, PHL, ORD)
More flights / operators to Orlando
Munich, Frankfurt
Oslo, Stavanger, Bergen low cost operators
Paris Growth - AF + LCC
Madrid
Seville
Lisbon
More London Routes (LGW, STN, LCY,) to compete with rail (Not necessarily with BA connecting via LHR)

[PDXCWL45]

It is the job of an Aviation Development team to sell, promote and incentivise growth - The current team are simply not doing their job well / at all

There are plenty of opportunities waiting to be managed:
East Coast USA (NYC, PHL, ORD)
More flights / operators to Orlando
Munich, Frankfurt
Oslo, Stavanger, Bergen low cost operators
Paris Growth - AF + LCC
Madrid
Seville
Lisbon
More London Routes (LGW, STN, LCY,) to compete with rail (Not necessarily with BA connecting via LHR)
Yes it is but unless the airlines are interested they might as well be bashing their heads against a brick wall.
For example the US east coast, the US3 have essentially withdrawn from uk regional airports so aren't likely to turn up.
Orlando only TCX and VS as possibilities there and both are becoming MAN focused and TUI already operates the route so the demand might be covered.
As for hub routes NCL already has 4 so another airline like Lufthansa may not feel the demand is there. City routes as point to point as well aren't high yielding hence why routes like Madrid may not work well.
As for London with APD and ever quickening rail airlines no doubt feel that they can make more money on other routes.

[SWBKCB]

There are plenty of opportunities waiting to be managed:
East Coast USA (NYC, PHL, ORD)
More flights / operators to Orlando
Munich, Frankfurt
Oslo, Stavanger, Bergen low cost operators
Paris Growth - AF + LCC
Madrid
Seville
Lisbon
More London Routes (LGW, STN, LCY,) to compete with rail (Not necessarily with BA connecting via LHR)

That's an aspirational list - at least half of which have been tried before. What's changed in the market to make you think they would be successful now?

[PorkyPig76]

What’s been said about Munich and who would opperate that?

[PorkyPig76]

Does anyone think Newcastle will get any new routes soon and has anyone heard any rumours? With the speculation over new share holders maybe this could happen. Would love to see some long haul routes, does anyone have any news/speculation over them?

[VickersVicount]

What’s been said about Munich
Nothing....

[VickersVicount]

Would love to see some long haul routes, does anyone have any news/speculation over them?
My speculation is that there is zero chance in coming 18-24 month period.

[skyman771]

Does anyone think Newcastle will get any new routes soon and has anyone heard any rumours? With the speculation over new share holders maybe this could happen. Would love to see some long haul routes, does anyone have any news/speculation over them?
These are difficult times, reality is that if there is not much money about in the UK as a whole, there is even less in North East and disposable incomes are under increasing pressure. Against this is a background of rising prices & poor exchange rates.

As pointed out by SWBKCB many routes have been & gone, & as to what's changed in the market in recent times I'm afraid is little to be positive about.
NCL are trying to retain & "grow" >5M pax p.a. which historically has been around the ceiling in numbers.
Does this not suggest that an increase offered by a new route simply causes a reduction in others i.e. a substitution effect?, as I've already said there is insufficient money in the local economy available at this this (& any??) time to support further growth in air traffic.

Finally it may be a worthwhile exercise for those of you who continue to dream up or reiterate unsubstantiated rumours of new destinations to take time out and list all the routes that have "been and gone" over the past 15 or so years. You should then look at the annual pax that used these routes , add them all up & just say take 50% you would come up with a figure in the millions no doubt. You should then ask yourselves where have all the pax gone, when in real terms most haven't gone anywhere, they have simply switched and now support those routes that are currently on offer!! while those that have, simply "take the train" to London & Manchester on which routes traffic growth continues.
It's all very well to attack the current management as to their performance in the short term, making ridiculous wish lists of destinations offers zero help to anyone.

[ash666]

I've no idea how the airlines work.
I seem to remember that Berlin was doing a roaring trade and it was dropped.
The same with Prague.
What do airlines want other than full flights???

[PDXCWL45]

I've no idea how the airlines work.
I seem to remember that Berlin was doing a roaring trade and it was dropped.
The same with Prague.
What do airlines want other than full flights???
Flights that earn lots of money and full ones don't necessarily do that especially on city routes.

[SWBKCB]

It has now been reported that AMP, which also bought Leeds Bradford Airport in 2017 and has investments in assets worth more than $20bn around the world, has been approached by pension groups and other investors looking to buy its stake.

A spokesman for AMP Capital said: “No comment on this – we don’t comment on market speculation.” The airport also declined to comment on the reports, which suggested the airport could be worth more than £1bn - a big rise in value since AMP’s 2012 investment, when it was rumoured to have paid around £150m for its half share.

Chronicle - Stake in Newcastle Airport could be up for grabs in massive deal, reports suggest (https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/business/business-news/stake-newcastle-airport-could-up-16302618)

[VentureGo]

I doubt it. Reason being Routes Europe was held in April!

Forthcoming Smart Airports Europe Conference, 7th - 10th October, Munich

Maybe Newcastle will be represented? - Although, not an airport routes promotional event, opportunities for Networking

https://smart-airports.com/europe/?dm_i=2XWF%2CVX8D%2C1ZADDM%2C3BMCF%2C1

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I seem to remember that Berlin was doing a roaring trade and it was dropped.
The same with Prague.
These tend to be one off visits unlike the Spanish sun routes say where people go every year or Dubai which is a gateway to the East.
NCL is much like GLA, comparing unfavourably with EDI where (I suspect via aggressive discounting) which is now a major European city in a way it wasn't until recent years.

These are difficult times
Actually these are good days, some of the best, take a step back, we went through a loco bubble which has skewed perceptions. More people are flying more often, but we still have too many airports with marginal business models fighting on the margins in the regions.

[jensdad]

I agree, Skipness. It's always nice to aim higher, but it pays to take a reality check every now and again.
Strange psychology here in Newcastle. Our football team hasn't won the league for 92 years but we seem to have delusions that should be a major European force. It creeps over into some folks' attitude to our local airport which, as I have said before several times, is punching well well above its weight. Maybe because we are (by relative English standards anyway) isolated. As Craig Bellamy said: they think they're a big club. And they are. In the North East.

[SWBKCB]

I agree, Skipness. It's always nice to aim higher, but it pays to take a reality check every now and again.
Strange psychology here in Newcastle. Our football team hasn't won the league for 92 years but we seem to have delusions that should be a major European force.

I'm from the north-west, but have lived near Newcastle for twenty odd years. I've only come across this view of north-east football reflectecd from outside the north-east. The locals just think they should be doing better, and don't expect to be one of Europe's elite (and just to be clear, I'm not agreeing with anything Craig Bellamy says...:yuk:)

The point about airport is spot on - the North east is a (relatively) poor, isolated region. As todays news further south has shown “when London sneezes, the north east catches a cold.”

[skyman771]

Unfortunately there is another significant adverse factor creeping in, to further undermine expansion, in that historically a significant number of Scots from North of the Border supported routes that are now being aggressively marketed / available closer to home....
Interestingly the recent news as to the potential sale of a 49% shareholding by an "investment fund" fits in with my take that the sale is simply a financial one, in that an appraisal has taken into account the significant potential gain and high market capital valuation due to the achievement of recent high profits, has likely concluded to sell at the top of the market. Falling pax numbers in future would adversely effect potential profits. Furthermore I do not see new investor(s) contributing much, as they would be buying in at a significantly higher valuation, with the ensuing pressure to drive dividends for their investors as opposed to reinvestment in airport infrastructure.

[nighthawk117]

I agree, Skipness. It's always nice to aim higher, but it pays to take a reality check every now and again.
Strange psychology here in Newcastle. Our football team hasn't won the league for 92 years but we seem to have delusions that should be a major European force. It creeps over into some folks' attitude to our local airport which, as I have said before several times, is punching well well above its weight. Maybe because we are (by relative English standards anyway) isolated. As Craig Bellamy said: they think they're a big club. And they are. In the North East.

It's ok, it's only 83 years since the other club just down the road won the league :O

[Jamesair]

Another way to gain new routes is by making Newcastle and the North East an attractive inward destination for tourists. The airport has already made a good start on this and more successful TV shows such as VERA and movies like HARRY POTTER...which are sold overseas, all help to market the area as a region to visit. A large number of inbound passengers would help a route such as New York work. Overseas business locating in the North East also brings incoming passengers. Attracting large foreign manufacturers to the area always brings a two way flow of extra passengers to and from the area. This happened when a large German manufacturer opened up in the area many years ago, unfortunately they subsequently closed the plant.....Lufthansa opened routes to service this need. Holding major events in the area also adds to the numbers, i.e. the recent Rugby matches, about 7,500 was the figure mentioned.
It would be interesting to know the percentage/amount of reverse flow passengers using the airport.
Port of Tyne is successfully attracting cruise ships starting and ending their voyages at overseas ports to make a call here. The passengers are offered a series of excursions around and about the area, a percentage of these will decide to return to explore the area further, probably arriving and departing by air for their visit.

[Jamesair]

TUI have now added SALZBURG ...1` WKLY on Saturdays and VERONA ....2 x WKLY on Wednesday and Saturdays to SUMMER 2020

[ash666]

I would certainly be interested in Verona

[SWBKCB]

Must just be late additions to the programme, haven't TUI run these for years?

[skyhawk1]

SZG and VRN have been operating for years withTOM/TUI. Nothing new.

[jensdad]

Another way to gain new routes is by making Newcastle and the North East an attractive inward destination for tourists. The airport has already made a good start on this and more successful TV shows such as VERA and movies like HARRY POTTER...which are sold overseas, all help to market the area as a region to visit. A large number of inbound passengers would help a route such as New York work. Overseas business locating in the North East also brings incoming passengers. Attracting large foreign manufacturers to the area always brings a two way flow of extra passengers to and from the area. This happened when a large German manufacturer opened up in the area many years ago, unfortunately they subsequently closed the plant.....Lufthansa opened routes to service this need. Holding major events in the area also adds to the numbers, i.e. the recent Rugby matches, about 7,500 was the figure mentioned.
It would be interesting to know the percentage/amount of reverse flow passengers using the airport.
Port of Tyne is successfully attracting cruise ships starting and ending their voyages at overseas ports to make a call here. The passengers are offered a series of excursions around and about the area, a percentage of these will decide to return to explore the area further, probably arriving and departing by air for their visit.
I agree with most of what you're saying, Jamesair, but which routes did Lufthansa open to service Siemens? (I'm assuming you're talking about them?). The point about reverse flow passengers is an interesting one. In the departure lounge last Friday, and in the arrivals hall on Monday, there was a preponderance of North East accents as there always is. It has been argued, with some justification but maybe a need for more nuance, that airports like Newcastle actually take money out of their regions. It surprises me that more tourists don't come here but I suppose we'd better be careful what we wish for.

P.S. 'Vera' is a risible piece of television though, bring back 'Spender' :)

[GrahamK]

LH opened a weekly Munich via BHX on a CRJ iirc

[CabinCrewe]

......which frankly would be no use to anyone nowadays

[jensdad]

LH opened a weekly Munich via BHX on a CRJ iirc
Ah OK, I never noticed that :) Must have been short-lived?

[GrahamK]

Ah OK, I never noticed that :) Must have been short-lived?
Yes , there was also an Augsburg Airways Dash 8 5 x weekly to Hamburg which lasted a couple of years iirc.

HLX seemed to do ok to HAJ, CGN and MUC back in the day

[jensdad]

Yes , there was also an Augsburg Airways Dash 8 5 x weekly to Hamburg which lasted a couple of years iirc.

HLX seemed to do ok to HAJ, CGN and MUC back in the day
Yep, I remember the Dash 8 to Hamburg. I went to Hanover and back on HLX back in 2007 I think it was. Busy both ways, but that was just a one-off sample. Cologne/Bonn and Munich on HLX didn't stick around long.

[Jamesair]

If the takeover of Newcastle United is true....that should should mean a few executive jets from the Gulf on match days

[highwideandugly]

Ehhh? Just like Manchester gets?

[Jamesair]

You have to be optimistic...if you support regional airports (or football teams) :):)

[VentureGo]

This morning's flight due at 10.30am from Enfidha BJ8240 turned back after reaching 32,000 ft, diverted to Monastir Airport an hour after take-off.

(Flightradar24) https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/bj8240/#20ac5c71

[VentureGo]

This morning's flight due at 10.30am from Enfidha BJ8240 turned back after reaching 32,000 ft, diverted to Monastir Airport an hour after take-off.

(Flightradar24) https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/bj8240/#20ac5c71

Update: Originally operated by Airbus A320 TS-INR (presumably diverted due to tech issue) has been substituted at MIR for TS-INH and has just departed at 09.20 for NCL.

[apaul]

Yep, I remember the Dash 8 to Hamburg. I went to Hanover and back on HLX back in 2007 I think it was. Busy both ways, but that was just a one-off sample. Cologne/Bonn and Munich on HLX didn't stick around long.

Cologne/Bonn and Munich was only a few months in 2005. Hanover ran for much longer but linked to British troops stationed in Germany.

[LiamNCL]

Slightly off topic but twitter rumours about private jets from the UAE due into NCL on friday , as someone praying for the removal of Mike Ashley does anyone know anymore on this ?

[N707ZS]

Heard Sheikh Khaled's adviser was mistaken and though he was buying United, as in Manchester United.

[beedoubleu]

New Route Agadir TUI 2020 1 weekly

Surprised no one picked up on this announced 22nd May 19.

Airways mag.com

[SWBKCB]

It's Airways mag.com that's a bit slow off the mark - on here since 16 April (see post #1445) and on the airports website since 3 May

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Sure many are aware but BA will be operating a (presumably retro) B744 on the BA1326/1327 on 25 Aug. Should be Negus or Landor colours.

[VentureGo]

Sure many are aware but BA will be operating a (presumably retro) B744 on the BA1326/1327 on 25 Aug. Should be Negus or Landor colours.

Article here:
https://simpleflying.com/british-airways-domestic-747-flights/

[N707ZS]

THREE HUNDRED AND SIX POUNDS.

[sixchannel]

THREE HUNDRED AND SIX POUNDS.
I give up - What is?

[N707ZS]

BA 747 Newcastle Heathrow VentureGo's post.

[SWBKCB]

There's supply and demand and yield management algorithms for you - it was £169 this morning (which was well over twice the price of the flights before and after)

[sixchannel]

BA 747 Newcastle Heathrow VentureGo's post.
Ta! I was having a slow day.

[Jamesair]

CAA statistics are out today for APRIL 19, biggest winner is PARIS up 40%

[GrahamK]

CAA statistics are out today for APRIL 19, biggest winner is PARIS up 40%

I make it 82.4% loads for Dubai for April based on 428 seat aircraft operating , not too bad considering it will still be losing pax to EDI

[JonnyH]

May be slow news day but DM reporting FR from ALC-NCL today...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/breaking-ryanair-flight-newcastle-diverted-16266241?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=mirror_main&fbclid=IwAR1Xq7JwQiwKnCBczts8nCMR9CBW42obG5FD0jzsuJqDw7gw-5wsNuuWwBs

[sixchannel]

"a small loop - -". Bet that impressed the Pax! Lol

[SWBKCB]

CAA statistics are out today for APRIL 19, biggest winner is PARIS up 40%

Paris (9.83%)? Do you mean Dusseldorf (44.39%)?

[GrahamK]

Paris (9.83%)? Do you mean Dusseldorf (44.39%)?

CDG up to 14,000+ up from 10,000?

[SWBKCB]

Looking at table 12-1 in the April Stats its 13,044 up from 11,877 (9.825714%!)

[GrahamK]

Looking at table 12-1 in the April Stats its 13,044 up from 11,877 (9.825714%!)

The .xls file has March figures and the .pdf has Aprils figures I believe

[VentureGo]

Been reported on Breakfast TV regional news slot that the Airport are considering the 700 metre runway extension to accommodate future growth. Within the updated "Masterplan 2035", this is detailed to make provision for long-haul routes including China and India where current loads may be restricted due to Callerton Hill on Westbound departures.

https://www.newcastleairport.com/media/2955/airport-masterplan-2035-updated-2019-lr_.pdf

- Figure 2 - (Page 9) existing route map - note destinations marked by * currently not served (Copenhagen, Nuremberg, Cologne, Vienna,Munich (can't see key as to why these routes are marked by an asterisk, although I believe they are not currently sserved other than possible Day trips e.g. Jet 2 Christmas markets etc..)
- Figure 6 – "Transport for the North’s (TfN) suggested routes from Newcastle Airport to deliver transformational economic growth for Northern England" (Page 21) - Routes suggested by TfN on the map include; Toronto, Atlanta, Hong Kong, Beijing, Delhi, Istanbul, Oslo, Frankfurt, etc...

Happy Reading!

https://www.newcastleairport.com/media/2955/airport-masterplan-2035-updated-2019-lr_.pdf

[SWBKCB]

considering the 700 metre runway extension to accommodate future growth

Which should just about take the extension up to the back garden of those new houses being built on Coach Lane :ok:

[N707ZS]

New houses must be full of NIMBYs.

[ash666]

Would the extra 700m be of any use to Emirates?

[VentureGo]

Would the extra 700m be of any use to Emirates?

Reading through the Masterplan, it would suggest the extra length would relieve some restrictions on Loads, Allow engines and brakes to be operated more economically/less wear,( Westbound departures due to Callerton Hill) - Although main reason for runway extension seems to be more related to route expansion to India, China and Atlanta USA, using A330-200/ -300, A350, Boeing 777 & 787 models. - Illustration of potential Route map with Aircraft capabilities is also in the link:

Figure 16 – Aircraft Range Performance on Extended Runway (Page 38):

https://www.newcastleairport.com/media/2955/airport-masterplan-2035-updated-2019-lr_.pdf

[ash666]

Reading through the Masterplan, it would suggest the extra length would relieve some restrictions on Loads, Allow engines and brakes to be operated more economically/less wear, - Although main reason for runway extension seems to be more related to route expansion to India, China and Atlanta USA, using A330-200/ -300, A350, Boeing 777 & 787 models. - Illustration of potential Route map with Aircraft capabilities is also in the link:

Figure 16 – Aircraft Range Performance on Extended Runway (Page 38):
https://www.newcastleairport.com/media/2955/airport-masterplan-2035-updated-2019-lr_.pdf

Thanks.
If the current EK 777 is full with PAX does it severely limit the cargo?

[tigertanaka]

Looks like BA have pulled the 747 visit at the end of August. Also gone are the trips to MAN and GLA.

[VentureGo]

Looks like BA have pulled the 747 visit at the end of August. Also gone are the trips to MAN and GLA.


Tickets are still selling at over £300 each way on BA booking site. Although Flight details now show A321, selling classes remains Y/J as opposed to N/R for all other LHR flights

Ash666 wrote: If the current EK 777 is full with PAX does it severely limit the cargo?
Depends on many factors e.g. Weather on Take-off, Weather en Route, Temperature etc...

[ash666]

Ok, thanks

[jensdad]

https://www.newcastleairport.com/media/2955/airport-masterplan-2035-updated-2019-lr_.pdf

Just a quick flick through the report, and several things jump out:
1) Putting Reykjavik, Akureyri and Nuremberg on their map of destinations, even with an unexplained asterisk next to them, is pushing things a little.
2) They're saying the A1/A696 access needs improving. Why? Edit: The answer, although unconvincing, is in the report.
3) When every airport like Newcastle has a direct link to every airport like Sao Paulo, a) Sao Paulo airport will have to be bigger than Sao Paulo, and b) Newcastle and Sao Paulo will both be underwater.

On point 3 I'm maybe being flippant but I'm making a relevant question: What is the limit to growth, both for worldwide air travel and for NCL? Because there has to be one.

[SWBKCB]

1) Putting Reykjavik, Akureyri and Nuremberg on their map of destinations, even with an unexplained asterisk next to them, is pushing things a little.

Agreed

2) They're saying the A1/A696 access needs improving. Why? Edit: The answer, although unconvincing, is in the report.

Seriously? It's already a struggle to get out of the airport at busy points (it won't be long until the queue for the A696 starts inside the drop-off zone...) and getting on/off the A1 can be a struggle. Given the level of house building taking place and planned for the North and West of Newcastle. things aren't going to improve any time soon. Fail to plan...

The Western By-Pass really needs a Western By-Pass, but they need to start planning now to go triple level to seperate North/South and East/West traffic, like they've done at Silverlink.

3) When every airport like Newcastle has a direct link to every airport like Sao Paulo, a) Sao Paulo airport will have to be bigger than Sao Paulo, and b) Newcastle and Sao Paulo will both be underwater.
On point 3 I'm maybe being flippant but I'm making a relevant question: What is the limit to growth, both for worldwide air travel and for NCL? Because there has to be one.

My Dad's been saying the same about house prices for the past 30-40 years...

[10 DME ARC]

The 700m is a serious need! At the moment the runway stop end on Rw25 does not comply with the latest CAA restrictions NCL keeps it's figures by god father right's, as in the runway was built before new restrictions! Each time work is done to the runway they run the risk of the CAA turning round and reducing present runway figures! So the 700m wouldn't be a total win around 2-300m would be lost in the increase to the runway stop end of 25.

[jensdad]

My Dad's been saying the same about house prices for the past 30-40 years...

Even some futurologist thinking-out-of-the-boxy types are beginning to say that carbon-free mass air travel could be a step beyond what is possible, and that's leaving aside the logistics of getting that amount of metal from every NCL-sized city to every Sao Paulo-sized one. They could be wrong of course. But any growth model has limits where, even if there is still growth, the rules change. Reckon your dad could be proved right eventually, but that's another discussion :)

[skyman771]

Which should just about take the extension up to the back garden of those new houses being built on Coach Lane :ok:

Surprised that your reference hasn't been seized upon for further comment. To me the further development of housing at the Dinnington end of 25 has all but killed off the possibility of their ever being an extension.
There has always been a contingent of objectors around Seaton Burn who have had to be appeased with amended flight paths & any future extension would effectively lower the approach heights on 25 inbound's. To add to this you have further development within this "envelope" significantly nearer the existing threshold albeit "slightly" to the South side of 25 approach.
It seems extremely likely that any future planning would fail on this situation alone, even before one considers the construction logistics / cost etc.

This extension "fantasy" dates back to the 70's when perhaps many of you were not even born, there was a clear requirement at that time for a longer runway due to the operational performance restriction of the equipment being operated into NCL, particularly on the DC9 variants through to earlier A320's. At this time there were also significant numbers of the classic 707's etc in operation within the IT market, that fully loaded required eight to nine thousand feet to operate without compromise. Indeed where on the limited occasions that they did operate into NCL then on occasions all was not as well as appeared i.e. TWA / Jetsave etc. though many operators had success and provided a legacy long range equipment that became available through displacement.
There was a forceful debate to obtain an extension at this time indeed the price quoted in retrospect now appears ridiculously cheap, I believe it was £2.5 M whereas you would probably be talking of upwards of £200M in today's terms. There were a number of issues to be contended at that time, not helped by the fact that the airport did not own the land required, & of course the road itself which would require rerouting or a tunnel. To cap it all I don't believe that the Governments aviation policies were in any way helpful. As such the project "died", though seems to have been appended to every future development plan over the years, but then it would be !

I would suggest that any resurgence now is simply being used in a cynical way as an attempt to make the airport more attractive to a new purchaser.
In any event it ain't going to happen, even taking all above into account, we are now moving into a more green conscious age, where the government has already touched on the need by "2050" for a reduction in flights.............
All I can say is enjoy the dream, but please don't waste everyone's time by posting "what if" destinations / services.

[inOban]

Posted by mistake

[JonnyH]

G-TAWC stuck out in PFO for TUI. Looks like 789 G-TUIM will operate a combined flight with LGW pax.

Would this be the first 789 into NCL (if it indeed comes here)? Normally always 788 for our LH programme IIRC!

[CabinCrewe]

Would this be the first 789 into NCL
No, TUI had one in March 19

[LiamNCL]

No, TUI had one in March 19


TUI 789 has operated into NCL numerous times now.

[JonnyH]

TUI 789 has operated into NCL numerous times now.

My bad - thought it was the 788 on all routes still.

[ROC10]

My bad - thought it was the 788 on all routes still.

You’re right though in that it isn’t scheduled to operate any routes from NCL, at least not in summer. I believe the 789 flights were mostly or only in winter when NCL sees relatively few l/h flights and things are a bit more irregular with regards to aircraft types.

[Jamesair]

The MAY statistics are now on the airport websites....Total Pax 531,734 against 524,325 in MAY 18. A good performance.

[VentureGo]

The MAY statistics are now on the airport websites....Total Pax 531,734 against 524,325 in MAY 18. A good performance.

Yes, a good month result considering Emirates reductions due to Runway restrictions at Dubai cancelling some 3 flights each week.

However running total against 2018 to date is down -18,911 ( 5,386,024 (2018) vs. 5,367,113 (2019) - * based on 2018 figures to end of year, and 2019 YTD.

Months comparisons so far below, then compared to rest of 2018, as on par to show running end of year -18,911 figure:

2018 vs 2019

January:284,016 vs 275,822
February:290,520 vs 284,349
March290,520 vs 284,349
April:405,703 vs 396,586
May:524,325 vs 531,734

remaining months compared like for like until actual figures are released to show performance YTD so far.

[Jamesair]

The CAA stats for May should be out soon and it will be interesting to see the figures for comparison, route by route. The pax figures generally hold up well against an invariable decline in movements each month.

[DanAir89]

BH Air

anyone know what’s going on with them
this year? Don’t seem to have operated their own aircraft into NCL yet (but stand to be corrected) with an MD82 operating tonight?

[LBIA]

BH Air

anyone know what’s going on with them
this year? Don’t seem to have operated their own aircraft into NCL yet (but stand to be corrected) with an MD82 operating tonight?

We had Cargo Air Boeing 737-400, LZ-CGY into Leeds yesterday evening operating the Balkan Holiday Air flight to Bourgas. Last week saw LZ-BHG visit in Saudi Gulf livery.

[BAladdy]

Does anyone have any info on how LM’s BRU and SVG flights are performing?.

[Jamesair]

The flights commenced on the 25th March ...Brussels 321....Stavanger 215. The first full Month April was Brussels 1548 down 29% on April 18 and Stavanger 1249 up 35% on April 18. May figures not available yet

[L66MBD]

NIAL social media are teasing with a new airline and new route revel tba this week. Sorry if I've missed it on this thread, but any ideas?

[SWBKCB]

NIAL social media are teasing with a new airline and new route revel tba this week. Sorry if I've missed it on this thread, but any ideas?

Only new routes mentioned have been the additional LM to fill the gap in the ABZ schedule, but they aren't a new airline.

Re BH - they are only flying one of their own A.320's at the moment, which has visited this year - clearly they think the money they are making on the leases outweighs the cost of the sub-charters (or they are p*ss poor planners!)

[jensdad]

Folks on social media talking of Sichuan to Chengdu; Turkish to Istanbul; Qatar to, well, Qatar. Let's see. The second of those three seems the most likely to me.

[BAladdy]

Folks on social media talking of Sichuan to Chengdu; Turkish to Istanbul; Qatar to, well, Qatar. Let's see. The second of those three seems the most likely to me.

The blue colour showing under the purple on the teaser ad is the same colour used for the new Air Transat livery. Could the new route be YYZ. Operated by one of there new A321neoLR aircraft.
https://www.airtransat.com/en-CA/airbus-a321neolr/aircraft/

Or has NCL managed to lure Westjet. They had been in talks with EDI about adding a new route from there, however nothing was announced. Maybe they have opted for NCL instead. I guess we will have to wait and see.

[jensdad]

The blue colour showing under the purple on the teaser ad is the same colour used for the new Air Transat livery. Could the new route be YYZ. Operated by one of there new A321neoLR aircraft

https://www.airtransat.com/en-CA/airbus-a321neolr/aircraft/
Ahha. That would be interesting. My initial thought when I saw the ad was to think of an airline that had light-blue branding but I couldn't think of any likely candidates. Would be good to see Toronto back.

[LiamNCL]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/916x515/received_359721471393725_4256e3c871827116380e737e74ac498d7e3 f8e2e.jpeg

Has a very Canada feel about it just my two cents worth.

[SWBKCB]

Folks on social media talking of Sichuan to Chengdu; Turkish to Istanbul; Qatar to, well, Qatar. Let's see. The second of those three seems the most likely to me.

The perils of social media!

[Flightrider]

Munich with Lufthansa?

[mad_rich]

The blue colour showing under the purple on the teaser ad is the same colour used for the new Air Transat livery.
It's also the same colour as sky!

[mad_rich]

Perhaps I'm being cynical, but my money's on a rather stretched definition of 'new'.

Perhaps a bucket & spade destination that hasn't been served for a few years, on an airline that has already served NCL in a previous incarnation.

Would love to be proved wrong though.

[HH6702]

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1792x828/0562ab88_756d_4329_abef_4a38837c52ff_b6a7a3ab6f9ff2a4f023dbb 1d8ac39ec539b9f26.png
I’m guessing it’s going to be one of these from the master plan

[Jamesair]

I suspect you are probably right....nothing wrong with any of those destinations....Germany features heavily. Hope they don't keep us waiting till Friday for the announcements

[LiamNCL]

I would throw my dart at Toronto , New A321LR aircraft and ticks the exciting destination box which NCL told ITV TT news few weeks ago was coming soon. Although it could easily be somewhere like Munich i dont see why they would tease a big announcement then for it to be a route like MUC. I see Munich / Frankfurt etc as more essential connectivity routes rather than exciting destinations but we will see , any new route is a postive :ok:

[HH6702]

I would throw my dart at Toronto , New A321LR aircraft and ticks the exciting destination box which NCL told ITV TT news few weeks ago was coming soon. Although it could easily be somewhere like Munich i dont see why they would tease a big announcement then for it to be a route like MUC. I see Munich / Frankfurt etc as more essential connectivity routes rather than exciting destinations but we will see , any new route is a postive :ok:

I’m thinking the same it has to be BIG but also at least 5x weekly service and hopefully year round

[LiamNCL]

I’m thinking the same it has to be BIG but also at least 5x weekly service and hopefully year round



Indeed , would be great to see how a new fuel efficient A21LR with a nice amount of fillable seats would do.

[VickersVicount]

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1792x828/0562ab88_756d_4329_abef_4a38837c52ff_b6a7a3ab6f9ff2a4f023dbb 1d8ac39ec539b9f26.png
I’m guessing it’s going to be one of these from the master plan
Delhi... really?!

[richardhall99]

Havent Lufthansa already been at Newcastle so not really a new airline that is being touted

[LiamNCL]

Havent Lufthansa already been at Newcastle so not really a new airline that is being touted

When they say NEW , im almost certain they mean ten or more years since they flew here.

[Jamesair]

The airport does have form......Bodrum was touted as a NEW route, could be Vueling trying again.

[jensdad]

The airport does have form......Bodrum was touted as a NEW route, could be Vueling trying again.
Yep, I've said on here before: there's spin and there's lies, and they step across the line sometimes. But let's not get too cynical - could be some genuinely exciting news in the offing.

[LiamNCL]

Another clue :E Looks like Munich

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x512/img_20190618_102513_b7de71b26ba6c061d1c676f0ed06fd939ceade33 .jpg

[Falcon900LX]

Another clue :E Looks like Munich

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x512/img_20190618_102513_b7de71b26ba6c061d1c676f0ed06fd939ceade33 .jpg
yes, immediately what I thought.

[jensdad]

One range of snow capped mountains looks much like another. Who would be flying to Munich that haven't been here before? Do Laudamotion have a Munich base? Edit: Google image search doesn't recognise it. It actually tells me it's underwater, which would make for a novel destination.

[TheGeordielad]

One range of snow capped mountains looks much like another. Who would be flying to Munich that haven't been here before? Do Laudamotion have a Munich base?
They don’t have a base at Munich but Eurowings do.

[tigertanaka]

One range of snow capped mountains looks much like another. Who would be flying to Munich that haven't been here before? Do Laudamotion have a Munich base? Edit: Google image search doesn't recognise it. It actually tells me it's underwater, which would make for a novel destination.

It is MUC, someone has found the original photo.
https://twitter.com/airportnewsMAN/status/1141010925107011584

If it is LH, then this is excellent news as MUC is basically their second hub. Travelling to Central/Eastern Europe is not always ideal using OneWorld/Skyteam so this will work well for connections.

[jensdad]

Very good news if it is true, as it looks to be :) (not strictly a new route, but it was a long time ago so I'll cut them a bit of slack.)

[LiamNCL]

So Munich with Lufthansa , a good solid German hub and close to the Austrian alps in winter. Lets see if they can build on this and deliver us some more.

[Matt4]

For some reason I can’t upload the picture on here but I’m guessing this will be it
https://images.app.goo.gl/ErYi6YXTrBZCsaFr5

[tigertanaka]

Official announcement, Lufthansa are doing 6 flights weekly (no flight on Saturday) on an A319 starting 3 Feb 2020:
https://www.newcastleairport.com/news-and-reporting/latest-news/lufthansa-announces-direct-service-between-newcastle-and-munich/

MUC 11:50-12:55 NCL
NCL 13:40-16:40 MUC

Despite what the press release says, flights are not yet available for booking on LH's site.

[TheLambtonWorm]

Yes, its still showing the flights as via DUS.

[Jamesair]

I think it was FALCON900 who told us about the slots being requested for this route months ago . He also mentioned OSLO and BERGEN with Loganair, so hopefully more good news to come. The Munich route was also on Wikipedia Munich Airport site for ages before it was deleted.

Well done to all concerned.

[Matt4]

Flights are now bookable on Lufthansa Website
LH2491
prices are quite reasonable

[Sharklet_321]

This is quite a scoop for Newcastle Airport, good news indeed. Now how about that Turkish Airlines flight to Istanbul...

[VickersVicount]

how do those timings fit with MUC connections?
Assuming if starting in Feb it will be year round?

[TheLambtonWorm]

£135.60 return Fri-Mon seems to be the cheapest. You can only book up to June 13th though.

[tigertanaka]

£135.60 return Fri-Mon seems to be the cheapest. You can only book up to June 13th though.

I wouldn't worry too much about only booking up to mid June, LH don't open their booking horizon open up more than 51 weeks ahead.

[TheLambtonWorm]

I wouldn't worry too much about only booking up to mid June, LH don't open their booking horizon open up more than 51 weeks ahead.

Oops! Forgot about that.

[jensdad]

Great news. Another big European city on our destination list, and lots of connections to some places in SE Europe for example that we don't currently have connections to.

But...

New airline? Definitely not. New route? Arguable. Why did they feel the need to say that it was? They didn't need to; the 'new' route is enough of an attention-grabber. As has been said, the PR folks at NCL 'have form' on this. Corporate culture is an interest of mine, and there seems to be one of dishonesty here.

[SWBKCB]

New airline? Definitely not. New route? Arguable

Surely a matter of opinion? Do LH currently operate from NCL? No - so they are a new airline. Does anybody currently operate to MUC from NCL? No - so it's a new route. :ok:

[L66MBD]

Not really arguable... not a new route or a new airline. Returning would have been better wording.

[jensdad]

Fair points SWB, but it's the implication - as I said previously there's a thin line between 'spin' and dishonesty. A company I used to work for used to insist that they obeyed not just the letter of the law, but the spirit of it too, and there's a lack of that kind of thinking here. I remember quite a while ago a guy who worked for the airport being interviewed in a 'lifestyle' magazine, saying that the new route to Copenhagen (SAS) made it easier than ever for him for him to get home, when Easyjet had just stopped flying there (more cheaply) a few weeks previously. I thought then that there was a problem in the culture there, and subsequent announcements about 'new routes' to Bourgas etc. (we must have imagined those Balkan Tu154 and BH A320's every year since about 1982 then? :) ) have reinforced my opinion. Maybe I'm looking too deeply here - as I say it's an area of interest of mine - but I do believe that this stuff matters.

Anyway, the bigger picture is good news about MUC :)

[SWBKCB]

So Norwich aren't a newly promoted team in the Premier League, then? And being picky, don't think the previous LH flights were LH mainline but Lufthansa Cityline or the such like

[BAladdy]

I think it was FALCON900 who told us about the slots being requested for this route months ago . He also mentioned OSLO and BERGEN with Loganair, so hopefully more good news to come. The Munich route was also on Wikipedia Munich Airport site for ages before it was deleted.

Well done to all concerned.
Oslo is still showing on there booking system, when selected 4 destination appear NCL is one of them..However no dates as yet available to book. Maybe a announcement is due soon.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1085x867/fd49bd38_eab9_4f20_ab70_415e04278e07_bc1a12dc094b2706e2aae55 7b895c06022865cc2.jpeg
Screenshot from LM website

[ash666]

Good addition and one I would use at least once to see Munich itself. Times good as well.
I would have to look further into the options to see if I would use it as a hub.

[NorthEasterner]

Oslo on Loganair has been on their booking page since the launch of ABZ. However they have scrapped flights between ABZ and OSL so is now blank.

[LiamNCL]

Whats the reason for the taxiway being closed this afternoon ? Aircraft taxiing up the runway with a backtrack on to 25.

[Falcon900LX]

I think it was FALCON900 who told us about the slots being requested for this route months ago . He also mentioned OSLO and BERGEN with Loganair, so hopefully more good news to come. The Munich route was also on Wikipedia Munich Airport site for ages before it was deleted.

Well done to all concerned.
Ha, I forgot I had mentioned anything on here. I was under the impression the route was completely canned, I didn't really put 2&2 together. We just thought it was some new route that slots hadn't been requested for yet. Also we've heard nothing more for OSL and BGO. I assume they're still in the pipeline.

[chris1001]

The most important route announcement since Emirates to DXB in 2007 in my opinion. Munich opens up not only the whole of southern Germany for both business and leisure but the Austrian Alps and Eastern Switzerland so skiers/boarders/walkers/climbers and mountain bikers can easily explore resorts such as Kitzbühel, Mayrehofen, Soll, Saalbach and so many more. Skiing in Austria is far better and cheaper than France with great infrastructure, fantastic mountain restaurants and apres ski. I gave up on the hell hole that is GVA years back as it’s just chaos on weekends in winter. Been travelling from EDI and MAN to MUC for a few years now so saves the two hour drive and extortionate parking fees. The LH terminal at MUC is very slick with great shops and restaurants and very calm. Great onward connections too. This route cannot fail in my opinion. Well done to all involved in securing this.

[PDXCWL45]

The most important route announcement since Emirates to DXB in 2007 in my opinion. Munich opens up not only the whole of southern Germany for both business and leisure but the Austrian Alps and Eastern Switzerland so skiers/boarders/walkers/climbers and mountain bikers can easily explore resorts such as Kitzbühel, Mayrehofen, Soll, Saalbach and so many more. Skiing in Austria is far better and cheaper than France with great infrastructure, fantastic mountain restaurants and apres ski. I gave up on the hell hole that is GVA years back as it’s just chaos on weekends in winter. Been travelling from EDI and MAN to MUC for a few years now so saves the two hour drive and extortionate parking fees. The LH terminal at MUC is very slick with great shops and restaurants and very calm. Great onward connections too. This route cannot fail in my opinion. Well done to all involved in securing this.
Not to mention attracting inbound tourism either directly from Germany or via the Munich hub.

[skyman771]

... Munich opens up not only the whole of southern Germany for both business and leisure but the Austrian Alps and Eastern Switzerland so skiers/boarders/walkers/climbers and mountain bikers can easily explore resorts such as Kitzbühel, Mayrehofen, Soll, Saalbach and so many more. Skiing in Austria is far better and cheaper than France with great infrastructure, fantastic mountain restaurants and apres ski. I gave up on the hell hole that is GVA years back as it’s just chaos on weekends in winter. ...
This service isn't going to survive on those skiers that prefer MUC to GVA, which in winter has had an EZY 4 or 5 times weekly service for "n" years at prices down to 50% of those being marketed by LH.
You also need to get real that skiing is less than 50% of the year, a number of IT companies have marketed the Tyrol as a summer destination, one has to assume it's lack of growth / success undermines any argument for mega numbers for at least "outbound" tourism.
I hope this service proves popular & is a success, unfortunately whatever way I look at, I have my concerns.

[ash666]

If I was still skiing I would much prefer MUN to GVA which is absolute chaos.

[VickersVicount]

This route cannot fail

Bold for NCL...

unfortunately whatever way I look at, I have my concerns.
Agree

[GrahamK]

Bold for NCL...

Agree


Good to see the usual negativity from yourself :D

[tigertanaka]

Here are the annual passenger numbers on the NCL-MUC route for the past 30 years. Not sure who ran a service in 2005 when 14,190 pax flew but to put that number into context, last year 38,259 people flew NCL-DUS.

1989: 0
1990: 84
1991: 0
1992: 0
1993: 129
1994: 0
1995: 0
1996: 2011
1997: 471
1998: 568
1999: 0
2000: 0
2001: 0
2002: 0
2003: 0
2004: 0
2005: 14190
2006: 0
2007: 0
2008: 0
2009: 0
2010: 86
2011: 0
2012: 341
2013: 0
2014: 484
2015: 0
2016: 289
2017: 287
2018: 283

[skyman771]

Here are the annual passenger numbers on the NCL-MUC route for the past 30 years. Not sure who ran a service in 2005 when 14,190 pax flew but to put that number into context, last year 38,259 people flew NCL-DUS.

1989: 0
1990: 84
1991: 0
1992: 0
1993: 129
1994: 0
1995: 0
1996: 2011
1997: 471
1998: 568
1999: 0
2000: 0
2001: 0
2002: 0
2003: 0
2004: 0
2005: 14190
2006: 0
2007: 0
2008: 0
2009: 0
2010: 86
2011: 0
2012: 341
2013: 0
2014: 484
2015: 0
2016: 289
2017: 287
2018: 283
so ur saying what ? In context how many seats are LH to offer on an annual basis?

[VickersVicount]

Suggestion its initially daily then 6d for summer?
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/284979/lufthansa-adds-munich-newcastle-route-from-feb-2020/

[ash666]

Just seen this in the Chron.

Good idea for those that can make use of it.

“Twilight check-in is ideal for customers staying at a hotel or who live near the airport as it saves valuable time on the morning of their flightAll customers need to do is check in online at least 24 hours before their flight, then visit the twilight check-in where they can drop their bags at the Jet2.com check-in desks between 3pm and 8pm the night beforeThey can then arrive at the airport the following morning and head straight to security, bypassing check-in, giving them more time to sit back and relax before catching their Jet2.com flight."
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/jet2-launches-new-twilight-check-16453058

[tigertanaka]

so ur saying what ? In context how many seats are LH to offer on an annual basis?

I am saying that there has not been a lot of traffic on this route in the recent past. It appears Hapag-Lloyd Express flew the route three times weekly in 2005 during the summer only. Interesting to note that they were taking only around 77 people per flight to and from MUC (HLX was also running NCL-CGN and NCL-HAJ as well). However HLX and LH are (were) two very different beasts.

If we go with 126 seats on a LH A319 x 6 days x 52 weeks x 2 trips a day then that makes over 78,000 seats a year.

[geordiegerman]

Being from Munich and living in Newcastle I have obviously been hoping for this route to come for years.

Thinking about it over the last days, Lufthansa's decision seems absolutely sensible to me, especially when looking at the local connection networks. Lufthansa in Munich is - compared to Frankfurt - particularly strong towards Eastern Europe, an area that is not well served from Newcastle compared to other UK airports.

This is also one of SkyTeam's weaknesses at the same time, as they have no major presence in Eastern Europe outside the capital cities. Flight times for the Lufthansa service are also well-aligned with some of Lufthansa's Asia flights in Munich creating additional travel opportunities.

There is no point for LH to fly against AF/KL to the US or Western Europe as 7 flights per day can never be offered, but considering the factors above I can see this route lasting - especially given that there will be both, local and connecting traffic. Berlin and Madrid, on the other hand, were for example purely based on O&D demand and therefore did not last.

[SWBKCB]

This service isn't going to survive on those skiers that prefer MUC to GVA

Nobodies suggested that it will, but it will add to the mix required to support the service

I am saying that there has not been a lot of traffic on this route in the recent past.

Not sure what your point is? This seems to be an argument for never starting a route that hasn't been operated before.

Lufthansa have been operating from the UK regions for a while, maybe give them the benefit of the doubt that they know what they are doing?

[tigertanaka]

Nobodies suggested that it will, but it will add to the mix required to support the service

Not sure what your point is? This seems to be an argument for never starting a route that hasn't been operated before.

Lufthansa have been operating from the UK regions for a while, maybe give them the benefit of the doubt that they know what they are doing?

My point is that there are a lot of people on the forum who talk about this being a returning route beforehand but the recent evidence is that apart from one summer, it hasn't been served for over 30 years.

I am fully supportive of the route, I am flying back to the North East from MUC next Wednesday via AMS so I will definitely be one that uses it in future.

[Jamesair]

Munich is rapidly becoming a major hub for Lufthansa which makes it perfect for Star Alliance passengers. My only comment, otherwise is, why they haven't started the service earlier, missing out on the Octoberfest and the Christmas Markets.

[jensdad]

Munich only competes with Geneva in the sense that Paphos competes with Fuerteventura. Similar type of destination, but nobody is going to use either GVA or MUC to get to the same ski-resort. 'The Alps' is a big place. And as has been pointed out, the main focus of this route isn't O&D.

[ash666]

Munich only competes with Geneva in the sense that Paphos competes with Fuerteventura. Similar type of destination, but nobody is going to use either GVA or MUC to get to the same ski-resort. 'The Alps' is a big place. And as has been pointed out, the main focus of this route isn't O&D.

No, but I would be more likely to pick a ski resort that is served by MUC.

[skyman771]

No, but I would be more likely to pick a ski resort that is served by MUC.

So what is your point ? are you saying that you would select a ski resort based on airport preference ? you would probably be in a minority.
If on the other hand you are simply saying that you feel that MUC serves ski resorts that are suited to your own requirements then accepted, but hardly relevant ?

[ash666]

Hardly relevant??? What a strange comment.

It could be have a big impact on NCL numbers.
There are ski resorts all over the alps and many people would love to get away from GVA. The nearest competition to MUC is Salzburg.

The group I went skiing with picked a different resort every time and the chance to use MUC would have had a big bearing on our choice of resort.

[NCL-TRC]

It’s a great little win for the airport, goes a long way to proving to me they aren’t just interested in the bucket and spade brigade.

If any Star Alliance airline/route is going to work I’d say Lufthansa to Munich probably has the best bet. As has already been said opens up onward connections to Central Europe / Asia etc. Will no doubt attract some decent business traffic who’ll hopefully build the frequent flyer basis that would allow the airport to expand with other Star Alliance carriers (which is one of the reasons UA didn’t work) and also more so than FRA would have given us, opens up a market for city breaks and Ski resorts.

If this doesn’t work we can stop hoping for new scheduled airlines and go back to wondering where Jet2 will send the aircraft they have sitting around on Wednesday afternoon.

[Hipennine]

So what is your point ? are you saying that you would select a ski resort based on airport preference ? you would probably be in a minority.
If on the other hand you are simply saying that you feel that MUC serves ski resorts that are suited to your own requirements then accepted, but hardly relevant ?

What might be relevant is the fact that the UK ski tour operators have reported that, for the first time in about 35 years, Austria has ovetaken France as the most favoured country for UK based snowsports participants. LH's offer for skiers/boarders is particularly attractive because skis/boards go free unlike the Easy's, Jet 2's, BA and the charter flights.

[N707ZS]

Munich connections, what extra will Lufthansa provide that KLM, BA, Air France and Emirates doesn't.

[TheGeordielad]

Munich connections, what extra will Lufthansa provide that KLM, BA, Air France and Emirates doesn't.
Lufthansa is stronger in Eastern Europe destination wise.

[LiamNCL]

Munich connections, what extra will Lufthansa provide that KLM, BA, Air France and Emirates doesn't.

A 5 Star airline :E

[SWBKCB]

Munich connections, what extra will Lufthansa provide that KLM, BA, Air France and Emirates doesn't.

More choice, more competition and access to a different alliance.

[Jamesair]

It will also make a huge difference if you are a points holder with Star Alliance especially with Lufthansa being the only member airline to operate out of NCL.

[Jamesair]

TUI SUMMER 2020

Flights to Palma have been increased to 4 weekly (from 3)

[ROC10]

TUI SUMMER 2020

Flights to Palma have been increased to 4 weekly (from 3)

I had NCL-PMI as 5 weekly in peak summer 2019... can anyone confirm?

[CabinCrewe]

I had NCL-PMI as 5 weekly in peak summer 2019... can anyone confirm?
Bookable 5 times per week Aug and Sept 20

[Jamesair]

4 weekly according to their latest online timetable

[CabinCrewe]

4 weekly according to their latest online timetable

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x474/6418a2d1_0eda_48ac_8290_d5e16b882c72_ea5255da424b76bc1079a64 4f04854d735e0070c.jpeg
Yes you are correct, seems to be 5x in 2019, though I could have sworn it was 5x in 2020 when I last checked. So actually a reduction high summer

[ROC10]

Yeah I was pretty sure NCL had more than 3/4x weekly to PMI ask I know EDI has 4x weekly and only has one based aircraft.

[Jamesair]

It has actually had three changes for Summer 20.....it started at 5 weekly then it was reduced to 3 and now it has been increased to 4.

[ROC10]

It has actually had three changes for Summer 20.....it started at 5 weekly then it was reduced to 3 and now it has been increased to 4.

Has the fifth flight been replaced by anything yet? If not, it could be added later as PMI again.

[Jamesair]

Excluding Long Haul, the differences from the 2019 schedule to the 2020 schedule is Palma...reduced to 4 flts weekly, Rhodes increased to 3 weekly and a new flight to Agadir which seems to be a gain of 1 flight

[VentureGo]

Notice a couple of Edinburgh bound flights are diverting into Newcastle after leaving holding pattern just south of Edinburgh, with more holding over Southern Edinburgh area.
Currently easyJet 807 from Gatwick and easyJet 3385 from Venice are on NCL approach.

ref. FR24

[Plane mad 134]

Diverted because of sever weather which was thunder and lightning plus severe rain and hail, there was also some freak wind gusts too.

[ash666]

Good news."The Aircraft Noise Action Group reacted to the Labour mayor's decision not to oppose a possible runway extension"https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/airport-campaign-group-disappointed-mayor-16484673

[P330]

Anyone know what happened to the EasyJet flight to Malaga this morning - appears to have diverted to Manchester?

[BAladdy]

Anyone know what happened to the EasyJet flight to Malaga this morning - appears to have diverted to Manchester?

Diverted due to a passenger taking ill.

[ash666]

"""We were told a woman was seriously ill after having a seizure so we had to divert the flight and land in Manchester."

[P330]

Thanks for the update.

Rarely does posting on this site become personal, but the interest from me is that I have elderly relatives on that flight travelling alone. Neither carry mobile phones. No easy way to find out if it was our own relatives who were taken ill - though I would hope we would have heard by now if so.

Hope the lady involved makes a full recovery as soon as possible.

[Jamesair]

The CAA May 2019 statistics have now been published on their website

[JonnyH]

G-EZGE causing a few problems for EZY the last few days - out of action for 36 hours and back in service today before going tech again. PMI cancelled today as a consequence and FAO delayed yesterday, not ideal.

I don’t fly with EZY too much but have noticed anything over 3 hours often seems to get cancelled!

[Jamesair]

MAY 2019
Some interesting figures this month:
INCREASES (BIGGEST)
PARIS .... 15,110 + 31%
CORFU ..... 9032 + 13%
SKIATHOS .... 1741 + 84%
DUBLIN ..... 23,790 + 24% (INCLUDES 4782 CHARTER PAX)
NAPLES ..... 4450 + 83%
PISA ..... 1394 + 19%
ROME ..... 3073 + 35%
AMSTERDAM ..... 30,892 + 10%
ALMERIA ..... 2046 + 41%
IBIZA ..... 12,467 + 38%
STAVANGER ..... 1167 + 16%
GENEVA ..... 2870 + 28%
ANTALYA ..... 9787 + 21%
DALAMAN .....16,882 + 16%
BOURGAS ..... 4284 + 42%
GDANSK ..... 3097 + 15%
KRAKOW ..... 3110 + 38%
ENFIDHA ..... 4306 + 138%

FALLERS (BIGGEST)

DUBROVNIK .....2362 - 34%
DUSSELDORF .....2884 -9%
KEFALLINIA .....4497 -59%
KOS .............2628 -30%
FARO ..........24,580 -17%
REUS ..........5788 - 23%
FUERTEVENTURA ..... - 17%
LAS PALMAS .....4449 - 16%
BODRUM............1443 -47%
HURGHADA.......1362 -12%
DUBAI..............11,713 - 28% (TEMPORARY REDUCTION IN FREQUENCY DURING MAY ONLY)

DOMESTIC INCREASES

ABERDEEN......1755 + 3%
BELFAST..........23,922 + 5%
BRISTOL..........16,999 + 12%

DOMESTIC FALLS

CARDIFF........503 -53% (REDUCTION IN FREQUENCY)
EXETER.......3948 -7%
JERSEY.......3368 -6%
NEWQUAY......95 -5%

HEATHROW.....40, 765 (UNCHANGED)
SOUTHAMPTON.....10,296 (UNCHANGED)

[JonnyH]

G-EZGE causing a few problems for EZY the last few days - out of action for 36 hours and back in service today before going tech again. PMI cancelled today as a consequence and FAO delayed yesterday, not ideal.

I don’t fly with EZY too much but have noticed anything over 3 hours often seems to get cancelled!

OE-LQM in this morning from TXL. EZGE tech for the fourth time in a week.

[HH6702]

I take it we have nothing new unlike other uk airports

[Jamesair]

Just seems to be a few frequency increases:-
ALICANTE........DAILY (4)
BARCELONA...4 WKLY (3)
BELFAST........17 WKLY
BRISTOL .......12 WKLY
FARO..............2 WKLY
GENEVA.........6 WKLY
MALAGA.........5 WKLY (4)
MALTA............2 WKLY
TENERIFE......2 WKLY

[Jamesair]

The FLIGHT TIMETABLE on the airport website has been updated today.

[HH6702]

Timetable seems to be loading up the old one

no show of Munich or the TUI AGA flights

[LiamNCL]

Seamless and fast transition through NCL yesterday morning (Rush hour) bag drop and through security in about 20 mins or less.

[deltahotel9]

Outbound is usually quick and easy, it's inbound where you have problems, long queues for security (not airports fault I know) and then even longer to wait for bags to come out, spoils the whole Newcastle experience every time.

[fl dutchman]

I always have a good experience flying in and out of NCL.
Just over a week ago my outbound experience was as per LiamNCL speedy check in and Fast Security. In addition everyone I encountered was pleasant and very helpful. ( It was also peak time)

On my return a couple of days ago the experience was also very good. there was short lines at the Border control which was well organised and fast moving. The baggage arrived very quickly indeed.

Having been around a bit I would without doubt say although a small airport NCL is one of the better ones in terms of a pleasant and friendly customer experience.

No I do not work for them.

[10 DME ARC]

DH9 you don't go through security on way in??? Border Control yes and but the passport machines reduce the waiting times drastically! Bags are a dynamic of the handling agent but are some of the best you'll experience! From someone who travels a lot NCL is spot on!!

[ash666]

I'm with DH9, ok going out but pretty poor coming back especially the baggage wait.
The only people I can think of who say they are among the best are the handlers themselves.

[apaul]

The baggage handling is alright when the plane has to be turned around. Tends to be slow later in the evening. When the automatic passport gates were introduced it made things slower as many struggled with the machines and they reduced the staff checking the passports in the old way. Hopefully things have settled down now.

[chris1001]

The biggest let down on the way out has to be the filthy tables in the bar areas and the constantly out of service escalator from the arrivals pier on the way in. Both easy fixes but been like that for years.

[ReadyToGo]

Did a TUI leased Sunwing 737 have an issue today?

Came over Consett on an east-west flightpath (as opposed to the usual North South headings) at what appeared to be a very low level?

Caught me off guard as from the ground it looked like an EZY 737!

[N707ZS]

This Thomas Cook's passenger experience made the national new. https://uk.style.yahoo.com/thomas-cook-apologises-humilating-treatment-070127961.html

[VentureGo]

Did a TUI leased Sunwing 737 have an issue today?

Came over Consett on an east-west flightpath (as opposed to the usual North South headings) at what appeared to be a very low level?

Caught me off guard as from the ground it looked like an EZY 737!

I believe it was directed into a wider/ holding turn as other aircraft were also on approach from the west to Runway, therefore keeping safe airspace from others descending on normal pattern over Waskerley and Reservoir areas

[CentreFix25]

Looking at Flight Radar 24 it went around (missed approach) at about 900' on it's first approach to 07 (I don't know why) - you saw it coming around for the second approach, which it landed from.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/by1531#2140c5f1

[sixchannel]

Looking at Flight Radar 24 it went around (missed approach) at about 900' on it's first approach to 07 (I don't know why) - you saw it coming around for the second approach, which it landed from.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/by1531#2140c5f1
Not knowing what else was in the circuit for landing at the time but it 'looks' like on the first approach, they overshot the turn point for 07 then couldn't get stabilized on Finals so went around.

[TheLambtonWorm]

Just noticed that todays Eurowings flight from DUS has turned back off the coast of Skegness according to Flightradar.

https://www.flightradar24.com/EWG8LN/214e37a0

[LiamNCL]

TOM643 CUN-NCL diverted to SFB last night and this morning has flown back to Cancun , Not sure whats going on there but a lengthy journey back for them.

[ash666]

TOM643 CUN-NCL diverted to SFB last night and this morning has flown back to Cancun , Not sure whats going on there but a lengthy journey back for them.

From the Chron:Flight TOM643 departed Cancun at 5.20pm on Tuesday and was flying over Jacksonville when it is believed smoke was visible on board the aircraft.One passenger wrote on social media that they were met at the airport in Orlando by "around 30 firefighters" who began investigating the plane.But due to immigration restrictions at Orlando Sanford, passengers were forced to remain on the stationary aircraft for around five hours until it was deemed safe to fly again.TUI has said it hopes passengers will be on their way again on Wednesday evening, but a departure time is still to be confirmed."Once the technical issue was resolved, the captain made the decision to return to Cancun where customers were provided with all inclusive hotel accommodation. The flight is due to depart today.

[Jamesair]

The Stats for June 2019 are now available on the airport website.

A pretty disappointing set of figures, with movements down from 3941 to 3353 and pax figures falling from 594,241 to 561,594. The airport will be lucky to maintain the 5m plus figure this year.

[HH6702]

Reason for the fall??

TCX minus 1 aircraft operating around 15 flights per week?

[jensdad]

5.5% drop in a summer month. Ouch!

[JonnyH]

Reason for the fall??

TCX minus 1 aircraft operating around 15 flights per week?

Probably a factor - but you’ve got a few inbounds helping especially with TUI. You’ve also got the prices which in the leisure market are only increasing. You’ve also got the fact it’s been a pretty decent last 6/8 weeks weather wise and this can have an affect.

Has there been any reductions on our domestics i.e BA LHR?

That would be all I could suggest - don’t think the school holidays were any different last year compared to this year.

[BAladdy]

ACL have published there Initial Coordination Reports for W19 season. Was wondering if anyone has seen the one for NCL?.

If so was there any new slot allocations made for W19?. Also are LM still holding slots for BGO and OSL?

[10 DME ARC]

Movements 3353 wow that's more than a 50% drop since I left 11 years ago!!

[SWBKCB]

Movements 3353 wow that's more than a 50% drop since I left 11 years ago!!

Fewer Cherokees in the circuit?

[SWBKCB]

Reason for the fall??

TCX minus 1 aircraft operating around 15 flights per week?

Didn't we gain a based Jet2 this summer, or was it just 800's replacing 300's?

[Jamesair]

Still seven Jet2 aircraft based although all now 800's

[Jamesair]

The pax reductions were across all categories, although the largest fall was in IT due to the Thomas Cook cuts.

[jensdad]

Fewer Cherokees in the circuit?
Good point: Where have they all gone?

[sixchannel]

Good point: Where have they all gone?
Didnt the NCL based flying school PTT Aviation go bust last year?

[jensdad]

Didnt the NCL based flying school PTT Aviation go bust last year?
There's been a steady decline in GA at Newcastle (and possibly at other airports too - where has Edinburgh's GA gone?) over many years. Back in the 1980's the 'far side' was always chocka. Not just the flying school, but privately owned. Not entirely sure about this, but there seemed to be more private visitors in those days?

[Jamesair]

Is there a list available anywhere of all aircraft based at NCL?

[N707ZS]

Is there a list available anywhere of all aircraft based at NCL?

FYI DTVMovements (http://dtvmovements.co.uk/Info/Residents_local.htm) scroll to bottom

[jensdad]

Thanks for that, N707ZS. So that's eleven based aircraft. Pretty sure there was more than that back in the 80's.

[N707ZS]

There was, airport doesn't really want them as they get in the way.

[SWBKCB]

Many residents went when the Bellman hangar had to be knocked down and reduced the amount of hangarage available - also understand that what remains ain't cheap, which has seen some recent moves out. Not sure the DTVM list is totally accurate, but the position on the training front is certainly "fluid" since the demise of PTT.

[VentureGo]

The Stats for June 2019 are now available on the airport website.

A pretty disappointing set of figures, with movements down from 3941 to 3353 and pax figures falling from 594,241 to 561,594. The airport will be lucky to maintain the 5m plus figure this year.

Airport's Passenger Statistics for Jun e have been revised on their website from 561,594 upwards to 570,363. (still down from same period in 2018 (594,241)

I thought this was due mainly to Emirates reductions due to runway maintenance at Dubai (although this, I read on here was mainly in May, yet May's Scheduled International Passengers on Airport's website don't reflect this)

Confused ?!....

https://www.newcastleairport.com/about-your-airport/airport-facts/passenger-statistics/

[Severn]

Airport's Passenger Statistics for Jun e have been revised on their website from 561,594 upwards to 570,363. (still down from same period in 2018 (594,241)

I thought this was due mainly to Emirates reductions due to runway maintenance at Dubai (although this, I read on here was mainly in May, yet May's Scheduled International Passengers on Airport's website don't reflect this)

Confused ?!....

https://www.newcastleairport.com/about-your-airport/airport-facts/passenger-statistics/

RYR operated 8x less departures each week during June 2019 vs June 2018.
June 2019 saw 2x less DUB, 1x less AGP, 1x less TFS each week. Also, WMI and MAD did not operate in June 2019 as they did at 2x weekly each in June 2018.

EZY operated between 3x and 4x less departures each week during June 2019 vs June 2018.
June 2019 saw 1x less JER each week for most of the month. Also, SXF did not operate in June 2019 as it did at 3x weekly in June 2018.

TCX only based 2x aircraft in June 2019, whereas 3x were based in June 2018 at a loss of around 13x weekly flights and 7x routes.

TUI operated more of their own metal each week during June, replacing aircraft operated by other carriers (Air Europa/Freebird) last June so not really any gain.

I can't compare EXS in June 19 vs June 18, but comparing August 19, NCL has an increase of only 1x flight per week vs August 2018 - (99x weekly departures in August 2018 / 100x weekly departures in August 2019)

[SWBKCB]

I can't compare EXS in June 19 vs June 18, but comparing August 19, NCL has an increase of only 1x flight per week vs August 2018 - (99x weekly departures in August 2018 / 100x weekly departures in August 2019)

I'd expect very similar but all 738's instead of a mix of 733/738's

[N707ZS]

Have the London City flights been cancelled.

[Jamesair]

Yes, they only ran for a few weeks and the service was suspended on the 5th April 2019.

[JonnyH]

Temporary runway closure due to a burst tyre has led to a few diversions but looks like it has reopened now.

[N707ZS]

An expensive afternoon then, wonder if the air show traffic will be sent South next year.

[Jamesair]

The CAA has released the June airport statistics this morning

[jensdad]

What's the crack, then? Just read that Belfast Intl. is up 10.6%, be interesting to see what Newcastle are doing...

[VickersVicount]

interesting to see EDI now carrying more with EK to DXB than NCL. GLA with A380 showing growth again

[Jamesair]

June 2019 passenger statistic

International main increases

Nice............4132 + 12%
Paris.........14,917 +18%
Corfu.......10,420 +7%
Skiathos...1634 +25%
Santorini...2006 +11%
Naples......4199....+31%
Pisa...........2991....+19%
Rome.........2837....+11%
Amsterdam...31,260....+7%
Almeria.....2762....+25%
Gerona....6008...+11%
Palma......51,332.....+6%
Stavanger...1277...+23%
Dalaman.....19,945....+6%
Krakow.....2798....+12%
Wroclaw....2943....+22%
Enfidha......4615.....+172%
Cancun.....4661......+46%

International main decreases

Brussels.....1666.....- 33%
Dubrovnik.....2987....- 20%
Dusseldorf....2989....- 5%
Kefallinia.....1446....-44%
Kos...............2752...- 35%
Salonica.....1198....-34%
Dublin.........18,075...-7%
Funchal.....1294......-8%
Alicante.....36,565.....-10%
Ibiza............16,354.....-8%
Mahon....... 6190....-29%
Reus..........9278.....-14%
Fuerteventura.....5204....-13%
Las palmas....4415....-30%
Tenerife......15,702....-20%
Antalya........10,756....-8%
Bodrum.......1383....-58%
Bourgas.....8297....-6%
Prague.......2310.....-7%
Dubai..........16,625....-5%
Orlando....2356......-26%

Domestic increases

Bristol.......16,906.......+6%
Belfast......23,095.......+2%

Domestic decreases

Aberdeen.........1719....-3%
Cardiff...............486.......-56%
Exeter..............3635.....-10%
Heathrow.......38,563.....-6%
Jersey...............3604......-6%
Newquay............568......-8%
Southampton.....9795.....-5%

[jensdad]

Interesting to see that all Flybe routes are down, and that the only increases in domestic are in the two EasyJet routes.

[VickersVicount]

Im never convinced you can make too much of huge perceived increases on the pseudo- Charter flights as it just takes a slight change season start date or extra weekly rotation to make year on year comparison inaccurate. So, I wouldn't say a huge surge in Santorini is the future...or a huge decrease in Thessalonnika is the end of the world.
AMS, DXB, DUB are the main benchmarks

[Jamesair]

I think you can add Paris to that list

[Jamesair]

Superbreak has ceased operations. Newcastle has only one holiday affected....a mini-break to Iceland departing in February 2020 using Titan Airways.

[HH6702]

Shame about superbreaks